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Thread: Valley Line LRT | Downtown to Millwoods | Under Construction

  1. #7601
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post

    Wait until you see the insanity later this month when they rip out the intersection at Scona Road and Saskatchewan Drive to take away the dedicated lane that that construction created in order to take out the centre island and put in new lights to make the turn off of Scona Road onto Saskatchewan Drive a complete right angle one.

    You can't make this kind of stupidity up....
    This is an April Fool's joke right? Spend millions to totally screw things up.

    That intersection isn't a problem in need of a solution.

    And what you describe is 100% NOT a solution.
    ... gobsmacked

  2. #7602
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    Unfortunately the city plans to do exactly what YEG said. I believe in 5 years there have been no accidents at that right turn location

  3. #7603
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    I would assume that some consultant declared in an extremely expensive traffic/pedestrian safety report for the CoE that the crosswalk there is extremely dangerous and why won't somebody think of the children and now here we are.

    Sort of reminds me of how they completely redid the on-ramp to 106th ave when coming off the Gretzky, to make it less of a smooth merge and more of a hard right turn into traffic. While I understand the design principle behind it of making people take the turn into traffic on 106th ave much slower, which gives people more time and awareness to do things safely, I honestly cannot imagine it was any sort of high collision spot that warranted the millions that was likely spent on it--especially when there is so much more critical road infrastructure improvement that it could have gone to.
    I will beat the dead horse back to life.

  4. #7604

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    "Across the river, near the bottom of the Connors Road Hill, the existing pedestrian bridge is being replaced. The new structure, named the Kȃhasinȋskȃk Pedestrian Bridge, will allow pedestrians and cyclists to cross the new LRT tracks and Connors Road, maintaining access to the river valley trail system. Soil anchors and concrete have been installed along the south abutment.

    Kȃhasinȋskȃk is the Cree word for Stony Creek, which was the original name of Mill Creek."

    Hey, I'm all for giving some love to our indigenous peoples in regards to naming things in recognition of they and their culture, but this one is going to be a challenge.

  5. #7605

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    Much like that more common pesky word...
    Saskatchewan.

    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  6. #7606

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoneman View Post
    Hey, I'm all for giving some love to our indigenous peoples in regards to naming things in recognition of they and their culture, but this one is going to be a challenge.
    "I'll meet you where the trail forks right after Kȃhasinȋskȃk bridge."
    "K-what bridge?"
    "The Connors Hill pedestrian bridge"
    "Why didn't you just say that in the first place?"
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  7. #7607

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Much like that more common pesky word...
    Saskatchewan.
    Took me a few years to finally pronounce Kananaskis correctly.

    This one is going to be a far bigger challenge though.

  8. #7608
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    "Stony Creek," is just to "Calgary" for me....with those words.....Should have used the K-bridge name for a bridge in Sh*tkicker town

  9. #7609

    Default Tunnel Entrance

    I was walking through the 96th Street alleged revitalisation zone a few days ago and came across this. The LRT line from Millwoods emerges from underground to cross right in the path of the pedestrian friendly zone:



    What exactly is going on here? I've only been back in town for about a year so I missed all the LRT planning stuff. The argument against having an underground system downtown is that it is too costly. So why does the LRT cross the river, burrow underground for a few hundred metres, and then rise out of its pit straight across a walking route?

    I have participated in as much "engagement" as I can but every time I think I discovered something odd there's another surprise just around the corner. Did everyone throw multiple conflicting plans at the government when oil was $100 a barrel and they just approved all of them no matter whether they were compatible?

  10. #7610

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    This line is all about punching through the most expensive corridor they could find, and then keeping it street level for just about the entire thing so it travels at the speed of traffic, and provides no incentive for anyone to consider a modal shift to transit. Those that are forced to take transit will take it though. Edmonton will remain at the 90% of commuting trips done by Single occupied vehicles because transit has been turned into a development tool rather than a good well built transit system.

    Any hey, look the new city plan that's being developed kinda flys in the face of all the logic people said this line has....

    And the downtown LRT tunnel remains under-utilized. So Edmonton to overbuild and under use.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  11. #7611

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    The problem is that not only would the Valley line have to be underground, it would have to be below Churchill Station. Sure, other cities have done it but this is Edmonton so it's done on the cheap. Especially when the cheap costs more in the long run.

  12. #7612

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    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    So why does the LRT cross the river, burrow underground for a few hundred metres, and then rise out of its pit straight across a walking route?
    There's a short bit underground north of the river to provide the right grade to connect the bridge down in the valley with the tracks on the surface streets on the top of the valley.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  13. #7613

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    The problem is that not only would the Valley line have to be underground, it would have to be below Churchill Station. Sure, other cities have done it but this is Edmonton so it's done on the cheap. Especially when the cheap costs more in the long run.
    There is nothing cheap about this line, except the end result.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  14. #7614

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    Cheaper than digging a much deeper tunnel and having to build stations down there too. Cheap is relative.

  15. #7615

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    Attended the MWTC display of the Valley line yesterday.

    As expected and rumored the transit Center location is moving closer to the LRT terminus.

    Exact layout of bus terminal still a bit muddy and they had no detailed drawings yet but its expected to be more efficient than the egress at the current station.

    One continuing problem is no park and ride for the Bus station, or the LRT terminus. With frequent mentions of Davies park and ride and encouraging people to use that. My reply being why somebody from Ellerslie, Beaumont, Meadows, Millwoods would drive all the way to the Davies park and ride, several miles away (in many cases more than half the distance of the trip DT to catch LRT far off at Davies.) clearly anybody driving that far is just going to logically drive all the way.

    The look of surprise at this question told me how little thought goes into any of this.

    I furthered suggested that telling residents at a MWTC presentation could be using Davies park and ride is at best disingenuous, at worst no solution at all.

    The real message: Just live with it, no park and ride here, you're subclass to what was provided at century park terminus.


    Also mentioned that the Library, which is not reconfiguring a new entry/exit, is now facing the wrong way, with the entry the furthest location from the new bus terminal, or LRT, and facing essentially nothing. Not facing mall, facing the most inconvenient way.

    Yet I'm still being told there was no way that the LRT could not have simply had a station on say 25Ave instead of 28 Ave that would have serviced everything better.

    COE planning. Make it up as you go along.

    Startling as well that you could have a dozen COE staff at a presentation and 10 of them know less than you do and are all directing people to ask questions to one guy present. Really? Half the people on hand from the city knew absolutely nothing.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  16. #7616

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    ^ Is there a link to plans somewhere?
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  17. #7617

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Cheaper than digging a much deeper tunnel and having to build stations down there too. Cheap is relative.
    That would've been silly. Could've just used the existing tunnel... (yes I know some have arguments against that, but those can all be mitigated)
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  18. #7618
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  19. #7619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Cheaper than digging a much deeper tunnel and having to build stations down there too. Cheap is relative.
    That would've been silly. Could've just used the existing tunnel... (yes I know some have arguments against that, but those can all be mitigated)
    Yoou really should refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  20. #7620

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    ^ good luck with that. That means he wouldn't be commenting on anything.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  21. #7621

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Cheaper than digging a much deeper tunnel and having to build stations down there too. Cheap is relative.
    That would've been silly. Could've just used the existing tunnel... (yes I know some have arguments against that, but those can all be mitigated)
    Yoou really should refrain from commenting on things you know nothing about.
    Ahh yes, I'll defer to you, the expert on telling me what I know and dont know. PFO.

    The tunnel was build to handle 6 legs.
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  22. #7622

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    Medwards is correct

    The tunnel had the capacity for 6 legs
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  23. #7623
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    Besides the obvious fact we have a high floor and a low flow system.
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  24. #7624

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Besides the obvious fact we have an actual rapid transit line and a glorified streetcar that's no faster than the buses it replaces, only chosen for its ability to shape the city instead of moving people.
    FTFY
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  25. #7625

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    Had we listened to experts before the Valley Line was a twinkle in Council's eye, we'd have multiple high floor lines going through our existing tunnel system & no low floor trudging along.

    Now we're gonna need to have the same fight for a bridge that kaiboshed the 87 Ave high-floor alignment to WEM & get a wholly inferior end result.

    PROGRESS!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  26. #7626
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Medwards is correct

    The tunnel had the capacity for 6 legs
    Not at the 5/6 minute frequency desired

  27. #7627
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Had we listened to experts before the Valley Line was a twinkle in Council's eye, we'd have multiple high floor lines going through our existing tunnel system & no low floor trudging along.

    Now we're gonna need to have the same fight for a bridge that kaiboshed the 87 Ave high-floor alignment to WEM & get a wholly inferior end result.

    PROGRESS!
    Faster than light, don't go left or right. A spur from University Station would have shaved 5 kms off of the line (33% less track) and connected multiple high density communities along it's route. It would have been cheaper, seen more ridership, and the money saved could have been used to elevate along all key intersections.

    The valley line directly benefits me as an owner with a stop one block away, but I don't think this project is the best possible system for the city as a whole; and I wish there was more discussion before the Valley Line project commenced.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  28. #7628

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Medwards is correct

    The tunnel had the capacity for 6 legs
    Not at the 5/6 minute frequency desired
    Yes with upgrades to signaling under 90 second headways are possible
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  29. #7629

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Besides the obvious fact we have a high floor and a low flow system.
    Wow listen to the expert here who cant understand that we are talking about what COULDVE been... but hey why dont you just continue trying to bullying people you dont agree with it
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  30. #7630

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Had we listened to experts before the Valley Line was a twinkle in Council's eye, we'd have multiple high floor lines going through our existing tunnel system & no low floor trudging along.

    Now we're gonna need to have the same fight for a bridge that kaiboshed the 87 Ave high-floor alignment to WEM & get a wholly inferior end result.

    PROGRESS!
    Faster than light, don't go left or right. A spur from University Station would have shaved 5 kms off of the line (33% less track) and connected multiple high density communities along it's route. It would have been cheaper, seen more ridership, and the money saved could have been used to elevate along all key intersections.

    The valley line directly benefits me as an owner with a stop one block away, but I don't think this project is the best possible system for the city as a whole; and I wish there was more discussion before the Valley Line project commenced.
    Oh there was plently of attempted discussion, but it was a one way thing where the city told us what they were doing and basically set out to find cheerleaders, rather than any fruitful discussions on how/why they arrived at the poor decisions they were making

    its too bad we have knuckleheads like glenco who do nothing but tell people to shutup and support the city blindly...
    A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims, but accomplices.

  31. #7631
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Had we listened to experts before the Valley Line was a twinkle in Council's eye, we'd have multiple high floor lines going through our existing tunnel system & no low floor trudging along.

    Now we're gonna need to have the same fight for a bridge that kaiboshed the 87 Ave high-floor alignment to WEM & get a wholly inferior end result.

    PROGRESS!
    Faster than light, don't go left or right. A spur from University Station would have shaved 5 kms off of the line (33% less track) and connected multiple high density communities along it's route. It would have been cheaper, seen more ridership, and the money saved could have been used to elevate along all key intersections.

    The valley line directly benefits me as an owner with a stop one block away, but I don't think this project is the best possible system for the city as a whole; and I wish there was more discussion before the Valley Line project commenced.
    Oh there was plently of attempted discussion, but it was a one way thing where the city told us what they were doing and basically set out to find cheerleaders, rather than any fruitful discussions on how/why they arrived at the poor decisions they were making
    I recall expressing concerns in 2nd year university about the proposed Metro Line. I didn't like the idea of ground level transit congesting areas around one of the most important hospitals in the city. I was told all those concerns had been reviewed and essentially told the engineers knew what they were doing.

    Well, now I do these things for a living and am disappointed in how many times I saw ambulance lights waiting at an LRT crossing over the past 2 years.

    The general public aren't flatheads. We come from different walks of life with valuable input that I wish the CoE would at least take under advisement before making asses of themselves.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  32. #7632

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    ...as I watch the elevated, high speed, automated REM LRT line being rapidly built in Montreal at about the same net cost per kilometer than Edmonton's slow streetcar.

    Sad ��
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  33. #7633
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    Yeah, you mention this REM line weekly....if you're watching it...you must be there...so if you're there....you should stop commenting on this forum.....

  34. #7634

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    Why?

    Is there a rule or just one in your head?
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  35. #7635
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    Yeah....one rule.....stop talking about this "REM" thing you keep speaking of....no one cares......

  36. #7636

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    It seems that you care. Triggered much? Looks like you live in Beaumont and don't pay property taxes in Edmonton. Why are you allowed to post, lol...

    FYI, I used to live in Beaumont.

    I think you are confusing my posts about the REM in Montreal here, but do not post there again because 'you are not interested'.




    The only time I mentioned the REM line on this thread was June 21st. Hardly 'weekly'.

    Not interested to learn about how Edmonton taxpayers were fraudulently lead to believe that low floor LRT would be less costly and better that high floor LRT. I was a stakeholder involved with the trolley debate and how the hybrid buses were used as a strawman to get rid of the low cost and efficient trolley system. Are you not interested how other cities are building faster, more frequent and better transit at roughly the same cost as the slow streetcar?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 21-08-2019 at 07:52 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  37. #7637

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    keep the rem comparisons coming. montreal is getting a lotta bang for its buck. a driverless trains, fast frequencies, fast travel times. we're getting a glorified streetcar with capacity contraints, that can't be scaled up (faster frequency, longer trains) to meet future demand.

    no wonder the new 'city plan' in the journal talks about shifting away from downtown. there's no capacity to meet the demands of what a thriving downtown expects ie. toronto, vancouver, montreal.

    how shameful- the city builds a mass transit system that can't funnel the masses efficiently into the core, roads into the core subsequently impacted due to the street level design (resulting, likely, in suburban residents staying away) and long term the core won't be able to achieve the critical mass needed to thrive. downtown needs at least 50k residents, and 50k+ daily jobs to be vibrant, and the little choo choo won't help in that, rather hinder.

    can't wait to ride the rem and will likely shed a tear in jealousy/ envy over what could have been in edm.
    Last edited by thatguy; 21-08-2019 at 08:14 PM.

  38. #7638

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    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    downtown needs at least 50k residents, and 50k+ daily jobs to be vibrant
    Looks pretty vibrant to me....

    Jasper Avenue looking west, ca. 1910


  39. #7639

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    Downtown always looks vibrant during a parade...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  40. #7640

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    Exactly my point. Doesn't require 50k of residents and workers. Requires a draw.

    Don't get me wrong, residents and workers downtown are good things, but not the only things.

  41. #7641
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    I hope someone in the next civic election campaigns on a daily parade platform.

  42. #7642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Faster than light, don't go left or right. A spur from University Station would have shaved 5 kms off of the line (33% less track) and connected multiple high density communities along it's route. It would have been cheaper, seen more ridership, and the money saved could have been used to elevate along all key intersections.

    The valley line directly benefits me as an owner with a stop one block away, but I don't think this project is the best possible system for the city as a whole; and I wish there was more discussion before the Valley Line project commenced.
    What would roughly be the proposed route if it spurred off from University Station? Genuinely curious.

    Is there any chance, even in the most remote of possibilities, that the City could even buy/expropriate/etc the old TransMountain ROW line that runs through Edmonton once TMX is finished and running? Now that would be a neat low-floor line that could connect right from 66th and go past Potter Greens.
    I will beat the dead horse back to life.

  43. #7643

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    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ion_Report.pdf

    There's a decade-old presentation that's got a lot of the various lines that were considered.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  44. #7644
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    Thanks!!
    I will beat the dead horse back to life.

  45. #7645

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ion_Report.pdf

    There's a decade-old presentation that's got a lot of the various lines that were considered.
    As you notice, no matter what the West LRT route, they ALL terminate in Lewis Estates. Why?

    Why not in the higher density communities within the outer ring road of Terra Losa or Collingwood?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #7646

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    C1 on page 24 of that report would have been best.

    As to why they end at Lewis Estates, Terra Los is just on the other side of the mall and Collingwood is blocked to the west by the reserve once you get south of the Whitemud. Having it end at Lewis Estates leaves open the possibility of westward expansion, perhaps even to Spruce Grove/Stony Plain.

  47. #7647

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    So more regional rail to increase urban sprawl in communities outside of the AHD rather than servicing mature neighbourhood communities that have greater transit needs.

    Right...

    Let me make notes on how not to design a public transit system...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  48. #7648
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    If they built a shorter line everybody would complain in 15 years that "they should have just done it right the first time" when they're asked for $1B to extend it.

  49. #7649

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    The areas outlined in blue in figure 3.9 (page 16) are our urban areas. The sprawl has already happened. Better to make it easier for those areas to connect to the city than to have new urban areas pop up.

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...-Study-min.pdf

  50. #7650

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ion_Report.pdf

    There's a decade-old presentation that's got a lot of the various lines that were considered.
    As you notice, no matter what the West LRT route, they ALL terminate in Lewis Estates. Why?

    Why not in the higher density communities within the outer ring road of Terra Losa or Collingwood?
    Seemed complicit at the time, and still does.

    City seems to prefer development in certain areas, Century Park terminus, Lewis Estates prospected terminus.

    Not convinced the city should have been even encouraging such sprawl outside of the Henday boundaries.

    Agree with you entirely on this.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  51. #7651

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    You all seem to be forgetting that the efficient moving of people is not the primary goal of transit in Edmonton, especially LRT, nor has it been for well over a decade. It's not a secret.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  52. #7652

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    Maybe we should rename it from ETS to EDW, Edmonton Developer Welfare
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  53. #7653
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...ion_Report.pdf

    There's a decade-old presentation that's got a lot of the various lines that were considered.
    Wow! Of all the route considerations they had, they went and picked one that wasn't on the list. Why? Because the existing route isn't practical, is highly expensive, and creates arterial congestion for inbound outbound automobile traffic. I would assume the 109th street intersection factored into the matter as well.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  54. #7654

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I hope someone in the next civic election campaigns on a daily parade platform.
    Nominated for post of the month! (We do have that, don't we?)

  55. #7655
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    Concrete poured rail in. Just paving left.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  56. #7656
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    Walked around the 97 St intersection today. Looks like they have just 1 or 2 weeks left until completion.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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