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Thread: Valley Line LRT | Downtown to Millwoods | Under Construction

  1. #6001

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    . One thing that wasn't answered however was what happens if the schedule falls of it's tracks?
    Then the penalties that were negotiated in the P3 will kick in against the consortium which will hurt Bombardier and its partners. This isn't a case like Toronto where there is debate over scope - they are fully on the hook to deliver the system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^you are diverting the thread re Aerospace - we have bombardier threads on that. I'm not a fan at all of Bombardier, but aside from the TTC situation (which seems very unique re what TTC wanted, not off the shelf like Edmonton is getting), and London signaling (everyone seems to mess up signaling when historical systems are integrated with modern), generally I think its a very good thing if the jobs are in Canada. Unlike the aerospace, and aside from that one bad contract in Toronto, Bombardiers rail division is a Canadian success story, and these Flexity trains run extremely well in LRT systems all over the world. Lets see if they deliver, I think they will, because under the P3 it will kill them if they don't.
    How am I diverting when I just made one response to an ongoing sidebar OTHER posters were having on the subject?

    One of the biggest obvious considerations in this line is whether we get rolling stock on this line ontime. Its not at all OT to the thread imo.
    You're right this is on topic and something of a concern at least in the backs of minds by most Canadians. There were assurances made during Iveson's facebook live thing a few months ago that the city, construction companies, and financiers all were doing periodic inspections at Bombardier to ensure that production targets are being met as they go along. One thing that wasn't answered however was what happens if the schedule falls of it's tracks?
    Afairc the late penalties weren't all that severe. But as most Edmontonians when I hear such things as the City is monitoring it does the opposite of provide assurance. Really the best thing about this project is COE is at length being that its a P3. Due to the incompetence of the COE P3 developments probably make more sense here.
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  3. #6003

  4. #6004

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^you are diverting the thread re Aerospace - we have bombardier threads on that. I'm not a fan at all of Bombardier, but aside from the TTC situation (which seems very unique re what TTC wanted, not off the shelf like Edmonton is getting), and London signaling (everyone seems to mess up signaling when historical systems are integrated with modern), generally I think its a very good thing if the jobs are in Canada. Unlike the aerospace, and aside from that one bad contract in Toronto, Bombardiers rail division is a Canadian success story, and these Flexity trains run extremely well in LRT systems all over the world. Lets see if they deliver, I think they will, because under the P3 it will kill them if they don't.
    How am I diverting when I just made one response to an ongoing sidebar OTHER posters were having on the subject?

    One of the biggest obvious considerations in this line is whether we get rolling stock on this line ontime. Its not at all OT to the thread imo.
    You're right this is on topic and something of a concern at least in the backs of minds by most Canadians. There were assurances made during Iveson's facebook live thing a few months ago that the city, construction companies, and financiers all were doing periodic inspections at Bombardier to ensure that production targets are being met as they go along. One thing that wasn't answered however was what happens if the schedule falls of it's tracks?
    I had read an very good in depth article a few weeks ago about Bombardier's rail problems which was quite informative. I don't recall the source think it might have been from the Toronto Star.

    As I recall, some of the problems related to the street car manufacture relate to Toronto's specific requirements. They have a different size rail and some special accessibility requirements. There also seems to be problems in co-ordinating the work between their Mexican plant and their plant in Thunder Bay.

    I was initially concerned about us using Bombardier, but if what we are getting is more off the shelf, it should go much better. I am not sure if the Thunder Bay plant is the problem or it is using two plants for production. The requirement to use an Ontario plant may not be an issue for us.

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    ^ I hope your right on this one. Since TransEd announced Bombardier was part of its package, I became nervous of this project.

    Great photo above.

    Anyone got any new photos of this project yet?
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    http://projects.thestar.com/bombardier-ttc/

    Here it is. And to be honest; the more I study the issues Bombardier has had with the TTC, the less relevant I find the concerns to our own build. Our cars are a more standardized build, we have less in volume, and there's constant oversight from the get-go to ensure production targets are met.

    I'm much more optimistic about our opening than I was just a month ago.
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  7. #6007

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    Yeah, the TTC streetcars are a unique beast but we're buying the same stuff as Metrolinx who's also getting the screwjob from Bombardier to the point they've gone ahead & bought LRVs from a competitor to hedge their bets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Yeah, the TTC streetcars are a unique beast but we're buying the same stuff as Metrolinx who's also getting the screwjob from Bombardier to the point they've gone ahead & bought LRVs from a competitor to hedge their bets.
    I believe that the tramways are all built under the same roof as the LRV's in Thunder Bay no? If so, the company has drastically overhauled how it manages supply chain and automated many of the welding process which were before done by hand. Aka; ya don't have to bash the metal in place with a hammer to get it to fit in it's spot anymore.

    Also; hopefully they've figured out how their own electrical systems are engineered and assembled through the Metrolinx Case. I'm optimistic; but there's still things to keep a watchful and critical eye on.

    And damn! Those french trains are gorgeous.
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  9. #6009

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I believe that the tramways are all built under the same roof as the LRV's in Thunder Bay no? If so, the company has drastically overhauled how it manages supply chain and automated many of the welding process which were before done by hand. Aka; ya don't have to bash the metal in place with a hammer to get it to fit in it's spot anymore.


    Also; hopefully they've figured out how their own electrical systems are engineered and assembled through the Metrolinx Case. I'm optimistic; but there's still things to keep a watchful and critical eye on.
    I wouldn't count the bugs squashed yet, Metrolinx still hasn't signed off on their prototype car & entered into the deal with the competitor after they took delivery of it & started evaluating it.

    Could things turn out OK? Sure, they're certainly trying to fix their issues. But given that the first customer (and sole recipient) of the same model is actively considering replacing it & tried to kill the contract I can't say I have a lot of faith in them, even setting the TTC disaster aside.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I believe that the tramways are all built under the same roof as the LRV's in Thunder Bay no? If so, the company has drastically overhauled how it manages supply chain and automated many of the welding process which were before done by hand. Aka; ya don't have to bash the metal in place with a hammer to get it to fit in it's spot anymore.


    Also; hopefully they've figured out how their own electrical systems are engineered and assembled through the Metrolinx Case. I'm optimistic; but there's still things to keep a watchful and critical eye on.
    I wouldn't count the bugs squashed yet, Metrolinx still hasn't signed off on their prototype car & entered into the deal with the competitor after they took delivery of it & started evaluating it.

    Could things turn out OK? Sure, they're certainly trying to fix their issues. But given that the first customer (and sole recipient) of the same model is actively considering replacing it & tried to kill the contract I can't say I have a lot of faith in them, even setting the TTC disaster aside.
    These are all legitimate concerns man. I wonder what TransEd's response would be when these are expressed to their representatives. I know I brought it up in a facebook live thing with Iveson. He passed the question off to a department head who outlined constant oversight on the project out East. Which bode the question: what happens if deadlines fail to be met? Do we have an out clause with the company if they cannot provide? Or will we end up with a lawsuit the same way their transit agency has been put through.
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  11. #6011

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    If Bombardier drops the ball none of TransEd gets paid.

    He said there's strong incentive for all of the partners in TransEd to make sure each can deliver what they've promised.
    "None of the contract partners get paid if any single partner fails to deliver on time", he said.
    Unlike the troubled Metro Line, where there were separate contracts for construction and signalling, the Valley Line LRT contracts are being kept together.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-lrt-1.3837679

    That being said, how much is a threat is withholding payment from a company that gets bailed out of the consequences of their incompetence by the Feds at the drop of a hat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    If Bombardier drops the ball none of TransEd gets paid.

    He said there's strong incentive for all of the partners in TransEd to make sure each can deliver what they've promised.
    "None of the contract partners get paid if any single partner fails to deliver on time", he said.
    Unlike the troubled Metro Line, where there were separate contracts for construction and signalling, the Valley Line LRT contracts are being kept together.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-lrt-1.3837679

    That being said, how much is a threat is withholding payment from a company that gets bailed out of the consequences of their incompetence by the Feds at the drop of a hat?
    I guess we will just have to watch and see if automation and restructuring help. I'm not as well-informed as people at TransEd so I am HOPING they aren't hedging their bets on false promises and intuitive changes.

    Makes one wonder what was behind the choice of product. Isn't the Siemens LRV more affordable and capable of the same speeds and capacities as the Flexity LRV?
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  13. #6013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I guess we will just have to watch and see if automation and restructuring help. I'm not as well-informed as people at TransEd so I am HOPING they aren't hedging their bets on false promises and intuitive changes.
    I assume that the TransEd folks are no more or less informed as the Metrolinx folks who are trying their very best to run away from Bombardier as fast as the law will allow.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Makes one wonder what was behind the choice of product. Isn't the Siemens LRV more affordable and capable of the same speeds and capacities as the Flexity LRV?
    Not sure if a Siemens offering was even on the table, past the shortlist stage.

    MovingYEG includes:
    ACS Infrastructure Canada Inc., HOCHTIEF PPP Solutions North America, Inc., Meridiam Valley Line LRT ULC, Keolis S.A., Aecon Concessions, a Division of Aecon Construction Group Inc., Dragados Canada Inc., Flatiron Constructors Canada Limited, Aecon Infrastructure Management Inc., Keolis Canada Inc., Stantec Consulting Ltd., MMM Group Limited

    River City Transit includes:
    SNC‐Lavalin Capital Inc., SNC~Lavalin Constructors (Pacific) Inc., SNC‐Lavalin Operations 8: Maintenance Inc., Kiewit Canada Development Corp, Kiewit Management Co, ALSTOM Transport Canada Inc., ALSTOM Transport SA

    TransEd Partners includes:
    Bechtel Canada Company, Bechtel Development Company, Fengate Capital Management Ltd., EllisDon Capital, EllisDon Civil, EllisDon Facility Services, Veolia Transportation, Inc., IBI Group, Bombardier Transportation Canada, Inc., Arup Canada Inc., American Bridge Canada Company

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ba..._LRT_Final.pdf
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    Looks like there's a backhoe at Bonnie Doon Mall. Let the games begin.
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    Wow, there's been significant progress, even in the past couple of weeks (the orange air duct has a couple more lengths).
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    If anyone's around Bonnie Doon, digging has started around the station. The east wall (not the concrete fence) on the LRT at 66 Street is also starting to be poured. Finally, it looks like the pillars are being poured around the Davies Station at 75 Street/Wagner.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    I'll try to get out that way if I have time later this afternoon. I'm in the Baker Clinic, Provincial/Doctors, and Audrey's but if someone beats me to it, go for it. Kind of hard to get anywhere during festival/construction season on ETS. That and the wife tells me that the Capital line is having 20 minute delay issues this afternoon.
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    More construction advisories on 75/66 Street:

    http://transedlrt.ca/advisories/
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  20. #6020

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    Hey folks an old question for you. Does anyone recall which one of these Bridge designs we ended up getting?

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PD...-6_options.pdf


    Haha I distinctly remember the voting going on for the different options and Ian mentioning that we don't need another iconic bridge design because we were getting that with the Walterdale...Good times.

    Side note: Hopefully there is some LED lighting on this

  21. #6021

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    ^ https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/va...rt_booklet.pdf

    from reading that link, it looks like it was a compromise of designs between the two finalist. See page 25 (as labeled on the pdf)

  22. #6022

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    Pfft. How do we know these are finalized renders & the real bridge won't be festooned with value-engineered patch plates all over?
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    Well seeing as it is P3 probably pretty likely. By far the biggest downside to P3 is the cutting of corners. I fully expect that those walkway viewing platforms shown will be eliminated, and the rest of the walkway to be reduced to like 3 meters. And this isn't unique to Edmonton, it's plagued Vancouver as well.

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    One line is past Jasper, the other's underneath (July 11).
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    Here's an update of the line, all photos and videos taken this evening by me.


    Starting down near Mill Woods Town Centre, here's what the line currently looks like at 36A Avenue:




    At 38 Avenue, looking south:




    And looking north. And what do I spy? Rails!




    Bridge across Whitemud Drive progressing nicely:




    First structural steel going up at Operations and Maintenance Facility:




    Lots of progress near Wagner Station. Here's one of the pylons just north of CN's spur line:






    And new automatic warning devices for the CN spur line! (Maybe I'm the only one to get excited about this?)




    Pretty bad digital zoom cell phone shot of Wagner Station, as seen from 75 Street:




    And making our way quite a bit north, here's what is taking shape in the river valley:






    I also recorded a drive along the whole route, which may give you a little bit more of an idea of how construction is progressing:




    And if you want to see how things have changed so far, take a look at this video I recorded back in 2014 of the exact same route:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tel_tSfxBE0

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    Are there any particular reasons why there's been so little work done between the river crossing and Argyll Rd?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  28. #6028

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    Thanks very much Chris for all your hard work on these images. Much appreciated!

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    Great pictures Chris! Darn, they wouldn't let you go through the tunnel!

    I'm sure construction will get going on Connors Road once the Folk Fest is done.
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    Great shots Chris, very excited. Rail at last. Things are a happening
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    Thanks Chris, I didn't know they were so far along, great to see.

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    The electronic signs on 85 street warning of permanent lane closures keep moving the goal posts. Weeks ago it was imminent, then summer and now fall.

  33. #6033

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    The electronic signs on 85 street warning of permanent lane closures keep moving the goal posts. Weeks ago it was imminent, then summer and now fall.
    The delays have started.

  34. #6034

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    I had heard of some rumblings about there being some significant underground utility relocations in the area that weren't accounted for when they made some minor modifications to their plans, but hadn't heard of any delays resulting from it. This ties it all together.
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  35. #6035

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    Perfect opportunity to change the plan to elevated.....
    There can only be one.

  36. #6036

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Perfect opportunity to change the plan to elevated.....
    Are you pitching in the millions to change the plans and contracts and extra construction costs?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Why do the elevated stretches here feature a Y shaped pier configuration? Would a simple pier ala Skytrain in Vancouver (even designed for Quake conditions not be sufficient, or even structurally better? I would even wonder if the unified solid piers allow greater speeds. I'm no engineer but there would seem to be be no reason to deviate the piers and separate it in half like that.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #6038

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    Well, since we're potentially looking at additional millions to get the utilities out of the way, why not spend the millions on elevating instead. then we can also re-allocate a bunch of roadway revision costs to the elevation, and some operating costs to the elevation since it would allow faster operation. and some signalling costs since there would no longer need to fancy signalling systems to integrate the LRT into the intersections it passes. We could even cut out the costs of expending Connors road to 4 lanes and reduce it to 2 with minimal impact on traffic for another big savings...


    And, of course, since it would be THE CITY that would benefit from the change, THE CITY could chip in too, as necessary.

    Not that I expect anything to happen. It's probably too late, and city admin would never advocate something like that that would increase their workload. The only chance is if Transed Partners asks for it.
    There can only be one.

  39. #6039

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Well, since we're potentially looking at additional millions to get the utilities out of the way, why not spend the millions on elevating instead.
    It's not millions to relocate the utilities. It's involved work, but not super expensive. Just takes time to move stuff that's required, basic infrastructure.
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  40. #6040

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    OK, thanks.

    I guess the big stuff that would cost millions is the stuff that wouldn't have been missed.
    There can only be one.

  41. #6041

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    ^^ Time is money and moving utilities, especially those underground including sewers is VERY expensive with unexpected problems with aging legacy infrastructure such as sewers.. You can't just put in a few elbows on 48" lines and expect flow. Moving a road alignment is a major cost portion of this project and something that cities like Vancouver avoided by going elevated. Something the COE has vehemently stated is not possible.
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  42. #6042

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    Can't speak to drainage, not in my wheelhouse. What I've heard the issues are with is buried high-voltage electrical, not drainage.
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    I wonder if any delays are in regards to the Holyrood Gardens development proposal? Station location, even more utility changes etc. Goes to Council on Sept. 11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Thanks very much Chris for all your hard work on these images. Much appreciated!
    Concur. Very good camera work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Are there any particular reasons why there's been so little work done between the river crossing and Argyll Rd?
    I doubt it's anything super major, rather if you consider scheduling the tunnel and bridges take longer, so if you can wait a bit to do the easy parts last.

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    ^ Really neat. That's a lot of dirt they remove each day. Thanks Hillman
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    ^ Durn right.

    Between that are all the dirt being dug for high rises, you'd think we'd have a toboggan hill at Blatchford.

    You'd think anyway /rant off
    ... gobsmacked

  50. #6050

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    BTW, where does all that dirt go?
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  51. #6051

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    ^ they dig a hole and bury it, silly...
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  52. #6052

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    ^Ohhhh.... must be a deep one....
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Looking at the math, 72,575 cubic metres, divided by 227 cubic metres per day is close to 320 days (72,000/225) for tunnelling.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  54. #6054

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    ^Ohhhh.... must be a deep one....
    No, usually you dig two holes. One for the dirt you want to bury and another one to get rid of the dirt from making the first one. See, it's really simple if you use logic when digging holes in the ground.
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  55. #6055

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    ^Ohhhh.... must be a deep one....
    No, usually you dig two holes. One for the dirt you want to bury and another one to get rid of the dirt from making the first one. See, it's really simple if you use logic when digging holes in the ground.
    C'mon guys stop being silly. Obviously they are digging a lot more than just two holes and then bagging it and sending it to those mountainous landfills. Look at them. You'd have to be blind not to see that they're all dirt! Mounds of dirt. You can even see the bulldozers pushing the dirt around and the grass growing on it. It's clear as mud! But then, what are they doing with the actual garbage?

    Hmmm. I'm smelling a cover up, a conspiracy! I bet they're filling all those holes that they are digging supposedly for the tunnel dirt - with - get this guys - with all the missing garbage!!! But, but, but, there's a LOT of garbage generated everyday. Where could it all be going?

    Those tunnels - why are they taking so long to dig? Maybe, MAYBE, think about this one guys! They might be tunnelling all under Edmonton and stuffing the tunnels with garbage.

    Oh, but now where's that dirt going?

    ... does the Saskatchewan river seem to be getting higher to you? It sure does to me. I'm certain of that...
    Last edited by KC; 10-08-2017 at 07:37 AM.

  56. #6056

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    It's a massive coverup for sure.

    I have seen the river levels rising, could be caused by climate change.

    I think the tunnels are for draining the swamp. Does the tunnel lead to the basement of the pizza joint? Could even be tunnels for a secret North Korean invasion or for illegal immigrants to get under the wall.

    Let's get serious, this needs to be investigated. I heard that Trump has all the dirt on this...

    OK, I stopped now...


    maybe
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  57. #6057

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    They could be like my Mom, hoarding it in case there's a shortage some day.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  58. #6058

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It's a massive coverup for sure.

    I have seen the river levels rising, could be caused by climate change.

    I think the tunnels are for draining the swamp. Does the tunnel lead to the basement of the pizza joint? Could even be tunnels for a secret North Korean invasion or for illegal immigrants to get under the wall.

    Let's get serious, this needs to be investigated. I heard that Trump has all the dirt on this...

    OK, I stopped now...


    maybe
    Bringing up Trump into a non-political thread is the new godwin's law

  59. #6059
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    I wonder if the tunnel can be rented as an Airbnb.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  60. #6060
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    So, Murphy is digging in his front yard and his pal Seamus turns up.

    "Murphy, how come you're diggin' two holes in the yard?" says Seamus.
    "Ah, me greyhound died yesterday," comes the reply.
    "Yes, but why the TWO holes?" says Seamus.
    Murphy replies, "Well, I dug the first one, but it wasn't deep enough."
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  61. #6061
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Bringing up Trump into a non-political thread is the new godwin's law
    Zieg Heil! That and thank you!
    ... gobsmacked

  62. #6062

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    They should bring the dirt to Mt. Edmonton (West Edmonton Landfill). Looks ready to be capped and hopefully turned into a ski hill

  63. #6063

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    They should bring the dirt to Mt. Edmonton (West Edmonton Landfill). Looks ready to be capped and hopefully turned into a ski hill
    There is also a suspiciously big hill (Mt. Edmonton's twin?) in the west end by the cement plant and I think the nearby slough is getting filled in too. I don't know the source of the dirt, but I am guessing some of it might be going there too.

  64. #6064

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    I think that's the hill B.ike is referring to? There was a TV news story some months back about the west end hill being "full" and ready to turn into, after a few years, a proper hill for tobogganing (sp?) and I can't remember what else. A decade or so ago when I had a west-facing condo in Olde Strathe I noticed it during a sunny winter day after a snowfall. It looked mountain-ish.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  65. #6065
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    The Cloverbar landfill is quite the hill now too. I just hope they can do a Mount Blackstrap thing and intentionally design the hill to be used as a ski hill higher than Rabbit Hill or Sunridge.

  66. #6066
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I think that's the hill B.ike is referring to? There was a TV news story some months back about the west end hill being "full" and ready to turn into, after a few years, a proper hill for tobogganing (sp?) and I can't remember what else. A decade or so ago when I had a west-facing condo in Olde Strathe I noticed it during a sunny winter day after a snowfall. It looked mountain-ish.
    Yes, I remember the TV story on it. There's a waiting period of 10 years I believe, to let the goop (lo-tech term) leach out.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  67. #6067
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    @Chris

    A belated thanks for the video, shame you had to stop for all those lights and pedestrians. A police escort would have been handy.

    A quick reminder of what the tunnel entrance/exit will look like in Chinatown.




    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4333/3...89593d0b_z.jpg By me.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

  68. #6068

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    It would be nice if they could spruce up the portal on 95 st.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 13-08-2017 at 05:35 PM.

  69. #6069
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    Anyone know if the funding for phase 2 of Valley is underway yet?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  70. #6070
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    City Council went on a muted rampage re: just that after YYC got $1.58 billion for its Green Line.

    The fact the rampage was muted tells me must be something in the works backstage.
    ... gobsmacked

  71. #6071

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    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  72. #6072
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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.

    They're fortunate. That line was in serious jeopardy for the past few months.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  73. #6073
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    http://globalnews.ca/news/3580898/ed...-announcement/

    “We are committed — and I want to make this clear — as a government, to transit for both our major cities — for all our municipalities — but to LRT in Edmonton and Calgary,” Infrastructure Minister Brian Mason said.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  74. #6074
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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    I hope your right but nothing is guaranteed in politics.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  75. #6075

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    I was hearing on the news today that with Edmonton releasing the traffic pinch points publicly, one councillor was saying the Valley Line SE route would likely have to be completely redone. If that's the case, I wonder how many years this will delay it if they have to start again?

  76. #6076

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    I don't think that's the case, all of the NDP's support is in Edmonton now (mostly government workers) - they aren't going to lose that no matter how little they spend in Edmonton. They need to win support in Calgary, not Edmonton.

  77. #6077

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    I don't know any government workers and most of the people I know are NDP supporters.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
    I was hearing on the news today that with Edmonton releasing the traffic pinch points publicly, one councillor was saying the Valley Line SE route would likely have to be completely redone. If that's the case, I wonder how many years this will delay it if they have to start again?
    Will be interested to see the results of the study. A study in itself sometimes needs to be taken with a grain of salt as they can lean too optimistic or pessimistic depending on preconceptions.

    If indeed it does need to be reworked, although a bit of short term pain, i would commend those involved for realizing the original plan was faulty and taking the time to get it right. Pretty late in the game now with construction already underway for portions of the line but I'm certainly not complaining.

  79. #6079

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
    I was hearing on the news today that with Edmonton releasing the traffic pinch points publicly, one councillor was saying the Valley Line SE route would likely have to be completely redone. If that's the case, I wonder how many years this will delay it if they have to start again?
    Will be interested to see the results of the study. A study in itself sometimes needs to be taken with a grain of salt as they can lean too optimistic or pessimistic depending on preconceptions.

    If indeed it does need to be reworked, although a bit of short term pain, i would commend those involved for realizing the original plan was faulty and taking the time to get it right. Pretty late in the game now with construction already underway for portions of the line but I'm certainly not complaining.
    Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world if it's delayed a couple years for more engagement and to buy up more properties to build. I kind of feel like the whole process has moved too quickly, so the backlash to traffic congestion may bring it back to earth.

  80. #6080

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    I don't think that's the case, all of the NDP's support is in Edmonton now (mostly government workers) - they aren't going to lose that no matter how little they spend in Edmonton. They need to win support in Calgary, not Edmonton.
    Oh yeah, we are all government workers here, we live in igloos and winter is 12 months long. Some of the stereotypical views of Edmonton from other parts of the world and even other parts of Alberta are silly and total bs. There are over 1 million people in the Edmonton area now - most do not work for the provincial government, really.

  81. #6081

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    moahunter just showing how wrong he is time and time again.

    Everyone in Calgary is a cowboy and rides a horse to work is about as correct as anything moahunter says about Edmonton.

  82. #6082

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    I don't think that's the case, all of the NDP's support is in Edmonton now (mostly government workers) - they aren't going to lose that no matter how little they spend in Edmonton. They need to win support in Calgary, not Edmonton.
    Oh yeah, we are all government workers here, we live in igloos and winter is 12 months long. Some of the stereotypical views of Edmonton from other parts of the world and even other parts of Alberta are silly and total bs. There are over 1 million people in the Edmonton area now - most do not work for the provincial government, really.
    I didn't say they did, I said the NDP support is government workers in Edmonton (I realize there are some other socialists / communists with similar views in Edmonton, and even Calgary, which the NDP needs to reach out to). If the NDP wants any hope of forming the next government, or perhaps even being the official opposition, they need to increase their support in Calgary, not Edmonton, and the money is going to follow that need.

  83. #6083

  84. #6084

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    I don't think that's the case, all of the NDP's support is in Edmonton now (mostly government workers) - they aren't going to lose that no matter how little they spend in Edmonton. They need to win support in Calgary, not Edmonton.
    Oh yeah, we are all government workers here, we live in igloos and winter is 12 months long. Some of the stereotypical views of Edmonton from other parts of the world and even other parts of Alberta are silly and total bs. There are over 1 million people in the Edmonton area now - most do not work for the provincial government, really.
    I didn't say they did, I said the NDP support is government workers in Edmonton (I realize there are some other socialists / communists with similar views in Edmonton, and even Calgary, which the NDP needs to reach out to). If the NDP wants any hope of forming the next government, or perhaps even being the official opposition, they need to increase their support in Calgary, not Edmonton, and the money is going to follow that need.
    Oh yes, of course you "didn't say that", but I didn't say you did say that you did either. My point is you were perpetuating a stereotype and I see you didn't deny that, did you?

  85. #6085

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I don't know any government workers and most of the people I know are NDP supporters.
    Millennial's living in mom / dad's basement, don't make up most of the NDP's support in Edmonton. NDP won't win any support in rural Alberta, so the math is pretty simple, the gains to be made in Edmonton are limited, but there are votes to be won in Calgary - hence where the cash is going.

  86. #6086

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    So what you're saying is that Edmonton votes on principles, while Calgarians are fickle & willing to support anyone who throws them money?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  87. #6087

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    I find it interesting that for some locations and directions, the vehicle volume counts are shown as decreasing in the future instead of increasing. So essentially they are assuming that people will take other routes, if that is even possible once all the congestion kicks in.
    Last edited by kgb81; 17-08-2017 at 03:09 PM. Reason: edited for clarity

  88. #6088

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I don't know any government workers and most of the people I know are NDP supporters.
    Millennial's living in mom / dad's basement, don't make up most of the NDP's support in Edmonton. NDP won't win any support in rural Alberta, so the math is pretty simple, the gains to be made in Edmonton are limited, but there are votes to be won in Calgary - hence where the cash is going.
    yeah, no NDP support outside of Edmonton. None at all. Because rural voters are simply voting Conservative because they have in the past and are unwilling to change.


  89. #6089
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    Like I said before, Edmonton Transportation has learned nothing from University Avenue, 51st Avenue and the Whitemud ramps, Princess Elizabeth Avenue. They want to repeat the same mistake on Whyte Avenue, which should be a bridge or tunnel.

  90. #6090

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I don't know any government workers and most of the people I know are NDP supporters.
    Millennial's living in mom / dad's basement, don't make up most of the NDP's support in Edmonton. NDP won't win any support in rural Alberta, so the math is pretty simple, the gains to be made in Edmonton are limited, but there are votes to be won in Calgary - hence where the cash is going.
    How delusional are you? I'm not a millenial. Most of my peers are not millenials. And my entire family - mostly NDP supporters - are tradespeople and were all raised on farms nowhere near the cities. Oddly enough, most of them have become far more liberal as they've aged. They're all intelligent folk though, so maybe that's where they differ from you. As they experience life, they see how conservatism only benefits the few. But whatever, just keep telling yourself that the only people that are centre or left of centre are pie-eyed kids that don't have experience. Last I checked the youth don't vote yet the vast majority of this country at all levels is currently governed by liberals.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  91. #6091
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    I think some roads could act as alternate routes. For example, 88 Avenue could be extended to meet up at the Idylwylde intersection. Drivers could then make the left turn off Whyte Avenue to 85 Street.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...fic-congestion
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  92. #6092
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by mattyw View Post
    I was hearing on the news today that with Edmonton releasing the traffic pinch points publicly, one councillor was saying the Valley Line SE route would likely have to be completely redone. If that's the case, I wonder how many years this will delay it if they have to start again?
    Will be interested to see the results of the study. A study in itself sometimes needs to be taken with a grain of salt as they can lean too optimistic or pessimistic depending on preconceptions.

    If indeed it does need to be reworked, although a bit of short term pain, i would commend those involved for realizing the original plan was faulty and taking the time to get it right. Pretty late in the game now with construction already underway for portions of the line but I'm certainly not complaining.
    Yeah, I guess it wouldn't be the end of the world if it's delayed a couple years for more engagement and to buy up more properties to build. I kind of feel like the whole process has moved too quickly, so the backlash to traffic congestion may bring it back to earth.
    And Bombardier can delay a few more years
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  93. #6093

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    Didn't get a chance to see the numbers but the intersection I was most curious about was 100 St and 102ave. At peak intervals could that intersection back all the way past Jasper and down the hill?

  94. #6094

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    It's on the list of severe congestion intersections:

    This identified the following intersections as likely to have severe congestion being present when the LRT was operational.

    82 Avenue Whyte and 83rd Street
    102 Avenue and 100 Street
    EB Whitemud Drive Ramp and 75 Street
    Argyll Road and 75 Street
    75 Street and Wagner Road
    34 Avenue and 66 Street
    102 Avenue and 97 Street
    95 Avenue and 85 Street
    McIntyre and 75 Street
    36A Avenue and 66 Street
    From the Executive Summary http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/v...&fileid=663751

    All of the data can be found attached to the meeting notes here: http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/m...doctype=AGENDA, it's a bit on the dense side so I'm taking my time going through it.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  95. #6095

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    Hey look, it's every intersection that the general public was concerned about. But don't worry, you can instead drive 20 minutes around to use the next arterial, or shortcut through residential, but they'll drop those speed limits to 40 and have piles of radar. You know, because all of this is going to make getting around Edmonton easier.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  96. #6096

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Hey look, it's every intersection that the general public was concerned about. But don't worry, you can instead drive 20 minutes around to use the next arterial, or shortcut through residential, but they'll drop those speed limits to 40 and have piles of radar. You know, because all of this is going to make getting around Edmonton easier.
    +1

    Also jesus enough with the political crap in here, isn't there an actual thread for that? I mean unless it actually pertains to this disaster of a project.

    Gotta love seeing it on the news already about the delays etc and how the City had the chance to elevate more of the route and said no... Oh how I wish the City could be held more accountable for its terrible decisions.

  97. #6097

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    Quote Originally Posted by GizmoForMayor View Post
    I can virtually guarantee that there is. You don't give $1.5b to Calgary and not to Edmonton unless you're trying to commit political suicide.
    Part of the reason Calgary tends to get money first is they've got a significantly lower amount of Administrative ADHD & generally have a smaller set of plans in progress than we do with those plans being farther along than what we have. We've got more stuff in play & tend to not have things at a level where it's money-granting time at the same time Calgary does.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  98. #6098

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    i can easily see the intersections being way worse than what this report is saying.

  99. #6099

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    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...uld-impact-you

    Great breakdown in that story. I'll pilfer the maps, but the article itself is worth a gander.


    Last edited by noodle; 18-08-2017 at 09:32 AM. Reason: fixed order of images
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  100. #6100

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    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    i can easily see the intersections being way worse than what this report is saying.
    Kinda like the 15 minute delay at Kingsway?

    God I couldn't be happier to live a good distance from the LRT's and not have to worry about them in my commutes for a long time.

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