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Thread: Valley Line LRT | Downtown to Millwoods | Under Construction

  1. #7101

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    @MammoetHolding Bridge 1 of 37 for the new Valleyline LRT in Edmonton has been successfully installed. Mammoet used the JS500 on top of SPMT's to raise the 577 tonne bridge 28'11".

    https://twitter.com/MammoetHolding/s...14725370781696

  2. #7102
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    Great shot. I assume that section is for one track right?
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    ^most likely.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  4. #7104

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    That's pretty cool.
    www.decl.org

  5. #7105
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    I wonder how many sections are ready to be installed?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I think there's another section installed south of Davies Station, next to 75 Street. It looks like four sections have been installed.
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  7. #7107
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    Taken January 25, 2019 looking North West from 75 Street


    Wagner station
    by Paul Smolik, on Flickr
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Nice shot.

    Looks like the other "Dalek" in the background is parelle with it counterpart by the crane and the platform in the middle I guess.
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  9. #7109
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    Default Metrolinx to slap Bombardier with financial penalties over late LRT car delivery

    Metrolinx plans to impose financial penalties on Bombardier Inc. after the Quebec train maker delivered only half of a promised six vehicles for Toronto’s Eglinton Crosstown LRT by the Friday deadline.
    “Our contract clearly outlines financial penalties on Bombardier for delivering vehicles late. Metrolinx will enforce the contract and the financial penalties will be applied,” Phil Verster, chief executive of the provincial transportation agency, told The Canadian Press in a statement.
    https://business.financialpost.com/t...Rv8xrzJO8nVz8#
    What are the odds we get ours on time?
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  10. #7110

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    Way to go Transed LRT! You are truly blazing a trail when it comes to community consultation.

    Make a ludicrous, never-before-discussed proposal - a complete shutdown of 95 ave - schedule a "drop-in session" in an unaffected neighbourhood, don't put any notifications on your website, don't notify residents, the community league or affected businesses, and only start putting up road signs a week in advance. When confronted with your bad faith actions have your official comms person tell bald-faced lies.

    Is Raj Dhunna running this consortium now? Jeebus.

  11. #7111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Way to go Transed LRT! You are truly blazing a trail when it comes to community consultation.

    Make a ludicrous, never-before-discussed proposal - a complete shutdown of 95 ave - schedule a "drop-in session" in an unaffected neighbourhood, don't put any notifications on your website, don't notify residents, the community league or affected businesses, and only start putting up road signs a week in advance. When confronted with your bad faith actions have your official comms person tell bald-faced lies.

    Is Raj Dhunna running this consortium now? Jeebus.
    Sorry, do you have more details?
    I just saw the signs go up. It says it's a proposal, which to me means it can be rejected or the community can come to an agreement on this. My thoughts are that there should be some long term community benefit to accepting this (think paying off the rest of the loan for the new community league building, additional public art allowance, etc.) because this is obviously some benefit Transed gets from this, either through efficiencies or deferred penalties.

    It may also be that they can complete all the work on 95ave in months shorter time and end the interruption...unsure their motivations, but I don't believe they can unilaterally declare a full closure. That said, if some how their contract allowed them to do that, I would imagine there are penalties in the contract for extended road closures and any penalties paid should go direct to the community, instead of back into the general coffers of the COE, but that means the COE needs to be in this discussion too.

    Edit post:
    Text from Transed website
    "Dear Resident/Business Owner/Property Owner:
    We are beginning an intensive period of construction in 2019 in Strathearn which involves road and sidewalk works. These works include modifying or improving underground drainage, moving underground utilities, paving the road, installing sidewalks, preparing the base for the LRT track, and installing the rail.
    Up to now, we have been trying to complete this work while maintaining vehicular access on 95 Avenue. That approach takes a long time and we understand that it results in a level of inconvenience to you. We have heard from many residents about noise, light, and access issues. We’ve been through one construction season, and if we continue with this approach, we expect to be doing major construction works on 95 Avenue for an additional two seasons (2019 and 2020).
    However, we have a way to reopen sidewalks and driving lanes by the end of 2019. This proposal involves the temporary full closure of 95 Avenue, from 85 Street to Connors Road, from spring to winter 2019. During the full closure, pedestrian access will be provided on 95 Avenue, along with select north-south road crossing locations for vehicles.
    After the driving lanes and sidewalks reopen, other work, such as landscaping, will continue until the project’s completion.
    Please come to the drop-in session to learn more and provide feedback. If you can’t attend, information and a survey will be posted to our website on February 9 at www.transedlrt.ca. The deadline for feedback is February 18, 2019.
    A followup meeting will be held in early April.
    "

    Looks to be motivated by Contract penalties to have 95ave re-opened to traffic by end of 2019, but not entirely clear.
    Last edited by DanC; 04-02-2019 at 10:26 AM.

  12. #7112

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    The website posting appeared today. A neighbourhood inquiry about the proposal from Friday received an official response on Sat. Feb 2 stating that both residents and businesses had been notified about the "drop-in session". A quick check proved both of those things to be fabrications.

    Whatever you may think about the proposal the concern here is bad faith consultation.

    Your idea of community benefit is a good one however Juniper Cafe will not survive a full 95 ave. closure. Wired Cup will likely not survive a full closure. Haven't heard from Red Ox Inn. Lee's Convenience is on it's last legs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    The website posting appeared today. A neighbourhood inquiry about the proposal from Friday received an official response on Sat. Feb 2 stating that both residents and businesses had been notified about the "drop-in session". A quick check proved both of those things to be fabrications.

    Whatever you may think about the proposal the concern here is bad faith consultation.

    Your idea of community benefit is a good one however Juniper Cafe will not survive a full 95 ave. closure. Wired Cup will likely not survive a full closure. Haven't heard from Red Ox Inn. Lee's Convenience is on it's last legs.
    Yes, access to businesses is very important. I am under the impression the closure is not a short term deal, but for a good portion of 2019. There will be some devil in the details here. If it is closed in stages such as a two blocks at a time for shorter durations and there is a community benefit, maybe something could be worked. However, this is not ideal and it's up to TransEd to make it work, not the other way around, so I hope they put some real thought into this.

    To your point around notice, a sign was on Strathearn Drive Saturday Feb 2. I'm unsure what the bad faith is other than a short timeline from announcing the proposal to presenting on it.

    Has anyone spoken to the COE and what contractual ability TransEd actually has to be able to declare a full closure without community support?

  14. #7114

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    Transed has many channels through which to communicate with Strathearn residents, businesses, and the league. I receive regular updates about disruptions, construction changes etc. via email for instance.

    A single road sign at the Bonnie Doon traffic circle (followed by two more set up this past weekend) is insufficient, unfair and unworthy of being characterized as "The Community League, and businesses have all been consulted and are aware of the Drop-in session."

    As far as I'm aware the CoE is being consulted with regard to Transed's ability to declare this closure.

  15. #7115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Transed has many channels through which to communicate with Strathearn residents, businesses, and the league. I receive regular updates about disruptions, construction changes etc. via email for instance.

    A single road sign at the Bonnie Doon traffic circle (followed by two more set up this past weekend) is insufficient, unfair and unworthy of being characterized as "The Community League, and businesses have all been consulted and are aware of the Drop-in session."

    As far as I'm aware the CoE is being consulted with regard to Transed's ability to declare this closure.
    Well I can't speak for the Community League or businesses, but that really isn't that many people to contact. Perhaps those groups were contacted directly?

    All I know as a resident is the signs posted on Connors and Strathearn Drive. It would have been nice to get a mail out, which is what the post on the website looked like it should be.

  16. #7116

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    It sounds like other locals aren't too happy either.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...t-construction

    That being said, the article sems to suggest that TransEd can simply close the road regardless, although it's doubtful they'd press ahead if feedback is negative.

  17. #7117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    It sounds like other locals aren't too happy either.

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...t-construction

    That being said, the article sems to suggest that TransEd can simply close the road regardless, although it's doubtful they'd press ahead if feedback is negative.
    If TransEd has the power to unilaterally declare a full closure, there better be penalties in the Contract for doing so and those penalties should be re-directed to the community impacted. I will be attending the information session to try and get a fuller story.

    As for 95ave, considering the scale of the construction, TransEd has done a reasonable job of keeping it functional with minimal disruption. I have rarely if ever had to detour. As for residents on 95ave directly, I am sure it's more frustrating and there has been a significant amount of night time work.

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    I could be wrong but it seems to me, that this is an opportunity for TransEd to avoid paying fines for the project for being late.

    "TransEd ultimately has the power to decide to fully close the avenue, but spokeswoman Sue Heumen said in an email that TransEd will integrate public feedback into the plan, and will hold another meeting in April to announce its decision."

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...t-construction
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  19. #7119
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I could be wrong but it seems to me, that this is an opportunity for TransEd to avoid paying fines for the project for being late.

    "TransEd ultimately has the power to decide to fully close the avenue, but spokeswoman Sue Heumen said in an email that TransEd will integrate public feedback into the plan, and will hold another meeting in April to announce its decision."

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...t-construction
    Typically road closures come with penalties to be paid so as to not put the contractor in a position where they can put their interests (iie accelerating / recovering schedule) ahead of the public's.

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    Good way of addressing it, however in this case it this was written into the contractors (TRansEd) contract. Possibly to mitigate unexpected delays in the project, to avoid paying late fines. Not that I blame TransEd. There were unexpected delays. There is such a stipulation in fact that puts the onus on Bombardier to deliver the LRV cars on time and budget.
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  21. #7121

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    Saturday, Feb. 9, 10:30am at La Cite Francophone will be the community "consultation" about TransEd's plan to crush a vibrant small business community in Strathearn. Join us and let them know what you think.

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    The site of this meeting is a tad far from Strathearn, no?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  23. #7123

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    I think their only other choice was the school. Not much in Strathearn.

  24. #7124

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    ^That's not true. There are lots of venues in Strathearn that could have hosted this meeting. TransEd has decided to make this process far more difficult than it needs to be. The location of the meeting is but one example.

  25. #7125

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    ^That's not true. There are lots of venues in Strathearn that could have hosted this meeting. TransEd has decided to make this process far more difficult than it needs to be. The location of the meeting is but one example.
    "Lots of venues". Please give some examples. On Google maps I see a church, and Ralph's Handi-Mart.

  26. #7126

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    Strathearn United Church, Catholic Church, Strathearn Community League Hall, empty double bay in Strathearn strip mall (the league has used empty spaces in the mall multiple times for large events during hall construction), CAVA gallery... heck even Juniper and Wired Cup said they would have offered the restaurant if they'd been asked.

    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.

  27. #7127

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Strathearn United Church, Catholic Church, Strathearn Community League Hall, empty double bay in Strathearn strip mall (the league has used empty spaces in the mall multiple times for large events during hall construction), CAVA gallery... heck even Juniper and Wired Cup said they would have offered the restaurant if they'd been asked.

    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.
    You caught me.

  28. #7128
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Strathearn United Church, Catholic Church, Strathearn Community League Hall, empty double bay in Strathearn strip mall (the league has used empty spaces in the mall multiple times for large events during hall construction), CAVA gallery... heck even Juniper and Wired Cup said they would have offered the restaurant if they'd been asked.

    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.
    Do we live in the same neighborhood?
    Last edited by DanC; 09-02-2019 at 01:35 PM.

  29. #7129

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    ^That's not true. There are lots of venues in Strathearn that could have hosted this meeting. TransEd has decided to make this process far more difficult than it needs to be. The location of the meeting is but one example.
    "Far more difficult"

    That's a ridiculous comment.

    Strathearn is just over 1km away from La Cite Francophone. What on Earth are the complaints about location? As is often the case with potentially stressful meetings they arranged it in a pleasant place and even as seeming benefit to those deciding to come out to it.


    Additionally they are having the meeting on a Saturday, for the convenience of people that work regular hours to come out to it on a day off, and they are having it at a location that is open on a Saturday and at a site and location with adequate parking that is EASY to get to.

    They do that and you're screaming about the location a Km away...

    This is hardly a case of making it difficult to attend. Why you would even cite location as a specific concern is mysterious. Its like you're looking for ways to complain about the meeting and process.
    Last edited by Replacement; 09-02-2019 at 10:27 AM.
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  30. #7130

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    My quote button isn't working. I'm inquiring of DanC

    How do you mean?
    Last edited by ajs; 09-02-2019 at 10:16 AM.

  31. #7131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    My quote button isn't working. I'm inquiring of DanC

    How do you mean?
    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.

    I haven't see or heard any of this.

    I went to the consultation today, it was fairly testy as expected. Transed didn't make a great case for why, other than to minimize over night works and lessen the burden on the residents directly on 95ave. They also said there was no commercial benefit at all to compressing the work into one season, which is hard to buy. It's hard to believe there would be no penalties for the full closure of 95ave.

    I think the best request from the community was to see the current plan that spans 2019 and 2020 against the compressed schedule proposal to make a more informed comment.

    That is supposed to be released next week.

  32. #7132

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    ^The community and business benefit is said to be that the brunt of the construction and disruption would be finished earlier with the road closure.

    I'm familiar with the whole area, but of the businesses there it strikes me that the only destination business there is Red OX Inn. The others would seem to serve mostly local and walk in clientele. Which would continue fairly uninterrupted I would think.


    People from outside the area tend to stay away from areas under construction. Nowhere more so than in Alberta wherein residents experience and inordinate amount. So it does seem that theres some sense in finishing earlier rather than later.

    Really the pro/con is whether road restriction for a longer period of time is better or worse than road closure for a shorter period. What do the businesses themselves think of either option. I'd bet they'd suggest neither, but they will certainly benefit from the LRT line going nearby there and increased traffic as a result along with density in Strathearn increasing in response to the LRT line.

    One would think that business owners (and these are longstanding business owners) would see beyond the short term grief and see the longterm benefit.

    In anycase the consultation and meeting and condoning to the requests to see the timeframes seems like reasonable process.
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  33. #7133
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    Well to jump away from this specific topic, I wanted to mention that there are now 6 bridge pieces that have been elevated into place, with a bunch more on the ground waiting to go up. 1 of the pieces is spanning the northbound lanes of 75st. Hopefully the will get the second span into place before re opening 75st northbound.

  34. #7134

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    My quote button isn't working. I'm inquiring of DanC

    How do you mean?
    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.

    I haven't see or heard any of this.

    I went to the consultation today, it was fairly testy as expected. Transed didn't make a great case for why, other than to minimize over night works and lessen the burden on the residents directly on 95ave. They also said there was no commercial benefit at all to compressing the work into one season, which is hard to buy. It's hard to believe there would be no penalties for the full closure of 95ave.

    I think the best request from the community was to see the current plan that spans 2019 and 2020 against the compressed schedule proposal to make a more informed comment.

    That is supposed to be released next week.
    An accurate summation of the meeting.

    I have received fabricated answers from TransEd regarding this "consultation". Anecdotally, businesses, the league and residents have also received purposeful misinformation in regard to this "consultation".

  35. #7135
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    My quote button isn't working. I'm inquiring of DanC

    How do you mean?
    You don't happen to work for Focus Communications do you? They are TransEd's PR team who have spent the past week spreading falsehoods around the neighbourhood about their "consultation" process trying to sow division between residents, businesses and the community league.

    I haven't see or heard any of this.

    I went to the consultation today, it was fairly testy as expected. Transed didn't make a great case for why, other than to minimize over night works and lessen the burden on the residents directly on 95ave. They also said there was no commercial benefit at all to compressing the work into one season, which is hard to buy. It's hard to believe there would be no penalties for the full closure of 95ave.

    I think the best request from the community was to see the current plan that spans 2019 and 2020 against the compressed schedule proposal to make a more informed comment.

    That is supposed to be released next week.
    An accurate summation of the meeting.

    I have received fabricated answers from TransEd regarding this "consultation". Anecdotally, businesses, the league and residents have also received purposeful misinformation in regard to this "consultation".
    Uh okay, I'm not sure what you could misrepresent about a public meeting. It was pretty normal and happened where and when they said it would.

    I think the most disappointing thing was the complete lack of anyone from the COE unless they came after noon.

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    There's a new flyover segment that was placed over 75 Street northbound.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Take the survey HERE
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  38. #7138

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    I guess it went over as well as hoped.... Which is to say not at all.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...tion-1.5013263

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    I wonder if 95 Avenue could be open to westbound traffic, between 85 Street and Ecole Gabrielle-Roy. At least businesses would have access.

  40. #7140

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    Not according to Transed.

    Interestingly, there was no option available except the full closure. Vague descriptions of "heavy construction", night work and two seasons if a full closure does not happen but no details.

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    Their existing plan was to do north side this year and southside next year, by doing the full closure they can double the crews and finish it all at once.

    There will be a lot of night work with the split plan due to the need to have overnight lane closures for access by equipment like concrete and pumper trucks, otherwise the lanes would be closed during the day and then it's very intrusive.

    I actually understand what they are trying to do and it would be overall faster and improve things for people directly on 95ave with the full closure, however I worry about the businesses. They are an important piece of Strathearn and losing a business is permanent, an extra season of construction is temporary...sorry folks on 95ave!

    Is there a commercial benefit to Transed in doing this? Maybe, it's hard to say without a full picture that the public will never have.

    This work isn't the critical path for this project right now, it is a risk I'm sure since I believe they were a year late starting...but the real problem is the bridge so in theory they could do this work either way and not impact then end date, but the full closure definitely brings back a significant amount of float for this work in the schedule.

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I can see it already, Muttart to MW with a shuttle bus to Downtown as a compromise...


    They've been in trouble for a long time and if they can't come up with guarantees for the Strathearn businesses, suitable access and workarounds, they should not go ahead with the full closure as it's not going to bring back the commencement date.

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    I'm not surprised they are behind schedule. There have been sections of the route that they started but then wouldn't see work for weeks or months on end. Or there are parts where they would close a section of road, then work on parts, the open that part only have done where they will have to go back and close the section off again to finish the work. Or my favorite, where they poured the concrete track bed, then jackhammered it up, because of a mistake probabably, then repoured it, then jackhammered it up again, maybe due to another error or same error, then repoured again. I wonder if this contractor is encountering similar issues that were seen when South Campus, Southgate, and Century Park were built of biting off more than they could chew?

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    I imagine that the September weather contributed to the setback too.
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  46. #7146

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I imagine that the September weather contributed to the setback too.
    But overall the project has seen good weather. Milder than usual winters, multiple early springs. The weather factor would be a relative plus over the life of this project. As others have mentioned its the deployment and limited activity at multiple points of the line that seems to have thrown the project into a hiatus. Not sure if the repours, bridge problems and some noted problems at Whitemud have overwhelmed the project. They've gone from tracking good progress to seemingly slowing down due to screw ups. I wonder if we're talking this coming in around 1-2yrs late. Several parts of the line theres being no activity at all. Even during the good months.

    In anycase a slow moving and behind schedule project is what was sought to be avoided this time by having this time. It was recognized that its essential to keep these projects on time due to the massive disruptions caused during construction. Any time delay magnifies the impacts of the disruption.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-02-2019 at 11:11 AM.
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    That Transed was going to be late delivering was known a full year ago, or even further back.

    But that's not nearly so bad as their plan to save their financial-penalty *** by ruining small businesses along 95 Ave.

    No way the city should allow that to happen.
    ... gobsmacked

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    They blame part of the delay on a problem of a "car sized mass of concrete" that was uncovered.

    Wow!

    I can see the reason for the delay. You all remember how the Transcontinental Railroad was delayed when they found a car sized rock named "The Selkirks".

    But that like took way long, like from 1881 and 1885, 4 years and was 4,700 km long

    Blasting granite near Dryden Ontario. The easy part.


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    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-02-2019 at 01:04 PM.
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    It seems like a lack of manpower. I seldom see anyone working. Crews are scarce and far between. They need to triple their manpower and double their shifts. imo (more equipment, tools, and materials on site. Take the job more seriously)
    Last edited by Drumbones; 12-02-2019 at 01:37 PM.

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    Honestly, little reason 102 Avenue needs to be closed Downtown right now. They could have done all the necessary utility relocation and reopened the road for the winter. This should be done for the west LRT, I don't see how it would cost any extra.
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    Those of us that have been on this forum for awhile now, expected some delays on this project. We just didn't know what the delays would be when construction began. Now we know.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    They blame part of the delay on a problem of a "car sized mass of concrete" that was uncovered.

    Wow!

    I can see the reason for the delay. You all remember how the Transcontinental Railroad was delayed when they found a car sized rock named "The Selkirks".

    But that like took way long, like from 1881 and 1885, 4 years and was 4,700 km long

    Blasting granite near Dryden Ontario. The easy part.


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    Why do you always derail a conversation with false equivalencies and hyperbole. How much attention do you need?

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    If they have a good sized workforce and work to completion of sections at a time they may get back on track. The track bed and tracks for sections south of Whitemud and the closest to completion. They should push hard to finish those sections and return the roadways to final alignment so that they can move all construction further north, etc, etc... Right now all I see is a very very long construction site on various states of completion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Honestly, little reason 102 Avenue needs to be closed Downtown right now. They could have done all the necessary utility relocation and reopened the road for the winter. This should be done for the west LRT, I don't see how it would cost any extra.
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    That Transed was going to be late delivering was known a full year ago, or even further back.

    But that's not nearly so bad as their plan to save their financial-penalty *** by ruining small businesses along 95 Ave.

    No way the city should allow that to happen.
    To both of these points, what we were told by Transed is they have no interim milestones for the completion of various sub-sections of the Work, they just have the single commencement milestone to achieve.

    It appears there are no penalties or incentives related to expediting any sub-sections of the work to a specified period. It also appears there were no incentives or penalties for start dates related to any sub-sections of the Work.

    Dean from Transed even referred the attendees to go read the partnership agreement that is posted.

    As it stands, the likely delay to the project commencement date is the bridge over the river, which means there doesn't appear to be much commercial incentive to expedite 95th ave or 102 ave...

    I also talked to the project CM that was there and there is work they do not do in winter which is why 102ave is sitting idle.
    Last edited by DanC; 12-02-2019 at 02:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    If they have a good sized workforce and work to completion of sections at a time they may get back on track. The track bed and tracks for sections south of Whitemud and the closest to completion. They should push hard to finish those sections and return the roadways to final alignment so that they can move all construction further north, etc, etc... Right now all I see is a very very long construction site on various states of completion.
    There is actually no point in this if the bridge is late. Why accelerate only to have the bridge not be done?

    The 95ave is very likely just about de-risking the schedule and minimizing disruptions on 95ave with very little commercial advantage. It might look good on paper to get the SPI back in-line but in practicality it doesn't get the project done and the train running the full route.

  57. #7157

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    ^Theres nothing wrong with having the project complete in stages. Staged development is even the mode in such projects. MWTC to Bonnie Doon or Muttart is preferential to the milk run service that exists now.


    Or failing opening of those stretches at least Complete those stretches so as to reduce the disruption being several years all along the line.


    We're getting the worst result by simply extending the timeline of the project. Let the bottleneck effect that part of the project only would be preferable.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Theres nothing wrong with having the project complete in stages. Staged development is even the mode in such projects. MWTC to Bonnie Doon or Muttart is preferential to the milk run service that exists now.


    Or failing opening of those stretches at least Complete those stretches so as to reduce the disruption being several years all along the line.


    We're getting the worst result by simply extending the timeline of the project. Let the bottleneck effect that part of the project only would be preferable.
    Maybe, however that is not how the Contract is set up
    Is TransEd going to offer to open a portion of the line to try and offset their penalties...I would bet they are. That however is a major change to the Contract and penalty structures that would have to be negotiated.

  59. #7159
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    Well it just seems very chaotic (more than it should be) to have everyone doing a bit here and a bit there, instead of getting things done in a manner that seems to make more sense.

    For example, at some point the delivered a big big pile of tracks to just south of whitemud. Common sense would tell me to get the track bed closest to the pile finished first so they could add the track asap and then lay more track bed a bit further and then more track and so on. Instead they seemed to pick a section fairly far away to lay their first track bed then they laid some track and then they started working further away in both directions, then they laid track further but not attached to that first finished section, and when they finished another section of bed they moved on to another area just sorta randomly in between and then moved to another section before completing that last section.

  60. #7160

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^Theres nothing wrong with having the project complete in stages. Staged development is even the mode in such projects. MWTC to Bonnie Doon or Muttart is preferential to the milk run service that exists now.


    Or failing opening of those stretches at least Complete those stretches so as to reduce the disruption being several years all along the line.


    We're getting the worst result by simply extending the timeline of the project. Let the bottleneck effect that part of the project only would be preferable.
    Maybe, however that is not how the Contract is set up
    Is TransEd going to offer to open a portion of the line to try and offset their penalties...I would bet they are. That however is a major change to the Contract and penalty structures that would have to be negotiated.
    Yep, but was there any change in the project planning implementation over the years? At some point, and maybe I'm wrong I recalled hearing some scenario whereby the line all the way from MWTC to Bonnie Doon could be completed first. Anybody else recall that?


    In anycase operationally is Transed having trouble getting enough equipment, materials, or labor? Just seems so odd that even in spring summer fall that theres so little activity. For instance they made such early headway in Millwoods that it should arguably be near completion by now but not close to it.

    These are down economic times with availability of labor and equipment one would think. That should help the project timelines.

    One last thing that Transed seems to use more around the clock construction involving OT or pay differential than just consistent application of resources in multiple areas. They go full bore in an area and then cease. I'm aware of no impediment that is currently stopping the Millwoods component other than weather. But even in the summer it wasn't as active as one would expect.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  61. #7161

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Honestly, little reason 102 Avenue needs to be closed Downtown right now. They could have done all the necessary utility relocation and reopened the road for the winter. This should be done for the west LRT, I don't see how it would cost any extra.
    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    That Transed was going to be late delivering was known a full year ago, or even further back.

    But that's not nearly so bad as their plan to save their financial-penalty *** by ruining small businesses along 95 Ave.

    No way the city should allow that to happen.
    To both of these points, what we were told by Transed is they have no interim milestones for the completion of various sub-sections of the Work, they just have the single commencement milestone to achieve.

    It appears there are no penalties or incentives related to expediting any sub-sections of the work to a specified period. It also appears there were no incentives or penalties for start dates related to any sub-sections of the Work.

    Dean from Transed even referred the attendees to go read the partnership agreement that is posted.

    As it stands, the likely delay to the project commencement date is the bridge over the river, which means there doesn't appear to be much commercial incentive to expedite 95th ave or 102 ave...

    I also talked to the project CM that was there and there is work they do not do in winter which is why 102ave is sitting idle.
    Lack of penalties on this seems to be the issue.

    For example, city like Helsinki, their new tram lines are developed in 3 block increments, from start to finish. Although only 30% of Helsinki's residents own vehicles, their chief planner said they'd have a riot on their hands if they closed all the roads indefinately the way Edmonton has (and he's been here recently to see for himself).
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 12-02-2019 at 04:14 PM.
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    Anyone know what the current status of the bridge is?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    If the bridge is the major sticking point, then build inward from the outer ends of the line and build the bridge as the final link.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    If the bridge is the major sticking point, then build inward from the outer ends of the line and build the bridge as the final link.
    Thats called logic there is none of that around here.....

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    I’m guessing that much of the line in Mill Woods (except the stations) will be done by this summer. Could resources be redeployed to help with Bonnie Doon?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    From Millwoods TC station to Whitemud most of the track bed has been poured with a section or three still being worked on. Some track has been laid. Some cantenary poles are in place, some but not all curbs for the final roadway have been poured, half of some of the intersections are done. One intersection is closed still after at least a year and a half. And yet this section looks the most completed of the valley line.

  67. #7167

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    83 street from Argyll to the Bonnie Doon traffic circle has no visible progress in the last year except for a bit of work on the Argyll ramp. I have no idea what they are doing, maybe utility relocation.

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    Actually from Argyll to 76 ave the have more or less completed the sidewalks and parking lanes on both the east and west sides of 83st. The should be essentially in their final configuration. The have also excavated the center of the stretch for the entire section and have been installing the concrete bases for the cantenary poles.

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    Nice to see some action from Bonnie Doon south!
    Downtown to Strathearn? Crickets.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  70. #7170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Nice to see some action from Bonnie Doon south!
    Downtown to Strathearn? Crickets.
    Crickets. I drive this every day. Lots of workers lots of progress. I have no idea what you are talking about.

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    I use the Manulife pedway across 102 Ave almost every day - no workers, no equipment for the past while. It's a ghost town.
    I rarely see any movement at the river crossing. The bridge has not changed in many months.
    Barely see anyone on Connors Hill Road.
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 13-02-2019 at 10:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I use the Manulife pedway across 102 Ave almost every day - no workers, no equipment for the past while. It's a ghost town.
    I rarely see any movement at the river crossing. The bridge has not changed in many months.
    Barely see anyone on Connors Hill Road.
    Work continues on Connors on the retaining walls, they won't do track bed work in winter so it's the only activity.
    95ave is consistently being worked on with their 'deep' undergrounds to complete the storm water piping.
    83street appears to be parked for the winter to get ready for track bed in spring.
    The traffic circle reconfiguration is slowly moving forward by Bonnie Doon.
    102ave downtown is also parked for winter.

    The project is moving along but they are late, with the bridge the latest driving the completion date, imo.

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    Mill Woods has the tents and shelters along 66 Street. Is there any way to replicate this around Bonnie Doon or Strathearn?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    I think that they done have enough people to work the entire constuction site and may be sharing some labour throughout the site.

    Based off of the worksite south of whitemud with the tents, they are very capable of continueing laying concrete in this weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I think that they done have enough people to work the entire constuction site and may be sharing some labour throughout the site.

    Based off of the worksite south of whitemud with the tents, they are very capable of continueing laying concrete in this weather.
    Concrete comes after significant earthworks. You don't do curb work and sidewalks in winter either unless you want to go broke,

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I think that they done have enough people to work the entire constuction site and may be sharing some labour throughout the site.

    Based off of the worksite south of whitemud with the tents, they are very capable of continueing laying concrete in this weather.
    Concrete comes after significant earthworks. You don't do curb work and sidewalks in winter either unless you want to go broke,
    But if you're the city of Edmonton, you start totally replacing the turn lanes and curbs on 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets in late October, and just shrug when weather hits and don't worry about the nightmare of accessibility you created for pedestrians nor the impacts on traffic by eliminating a right turn lane.

    Seriously though, when I saw them start that work last fall, I was like "what the hell are they doing? They'll never get done before freeze up." I have no idea what genius at the CoE thought that was a good idea, but they ought to be fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I think that they done have enough people to work the entire constuction site and may be sharing some labour throughout the site.

    Based off of the worksite south of whitemud with the tents, they are very capable of continueing laying concrete in this weather.
    Concrete comes after significant earthworks. You don't do curb work and sidewalks in winter either unless you want to go broke,
    But if you're the city of Edmonton, you start totally replacing the turn lanes and curbs on 111th avenue at 142 and 149 streets in late October, and just shrug when weather hits and don't worry about the nightmare of accessibility you created for pedestrians nor the impacts on traffic by eliminating a right turn lane.

    Seriously though, when I saw them start that work last fall, I was like "what the hell are they doing? They'll never get done before freeze up." I have no idea what genius at the CoE thought that was a good idea, but they ought to be fired.
    There was some curb work happening in the dead of winter in Ritchie too...the heating and hoarding costs were probably more than the actual concrete work. It was strange.

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    The city doesn’t seem to set any intermediate goals then they find they’re two months behind in September.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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