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Thread: Valley Line LRT | Downtown to Millwoods | Under Construction

  1. #5501

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    ^I'm guessing doesn't apply as not a national railway. Calgary's LRT does not have bells, and even crossing arms (just lights), at some locations (like 9st - 4ave SW), so its seems this is legal. Per Page 9 of this Sep 2016 booklet, no bells for Millwoods line, aside from possibly some non-residential areas:

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ro...rt_booklet.pdf
    Last edited by moahunter; 26-10-2016 at 11:29 AM. Reason: wrong location

  2. #5502

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Can someone tell me how the Valley LRT line doesn't need bells and cross arms, but the metro line does? I thought I read someone saying that the metro line required cross arms and bells at all intersections because of the national railway act (or something similiar to that). What is the difference?
    I haven't seen a low-floor system in the world that had bells or arms. Every high floor system had some form of barrier or at least notification. I don't know why, but that appears to be the global standard.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Well it there aren't bells or arms then that should be fine, although if I were them I'd at least have something at some of the major intersections as added control to remind drivers that they aren't smart then a train and decide they can take that chance and sneak past before the train shows up. I say this cause my faith in Edmonton drivers keeps lowering and lowering as each day goes by.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I did some reading and I really can't tell why they mot not be required. I'm also not an engineer on the project nor someone who knows the regulations well. But for reference, find the Grade Crossing Standards Here, which do seem to apply to LRT's according to the FAQ.

  5. #5505

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    So the 66 Street Sloths have even less of a non-case.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    The problem with gate/light grade crossings and LRT in Edmonton is that we've had them from the start. This is because the first line ran along the CN rail line and they were already there or were necessary becasue the heavy rail line was there. Edmonton then just continued to use them because no one thought any different. Thank God they are finally breaking the mould with the Valley Line!

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    I hope this thing gets underway in my lifetime what with all of these NIMBY groups crawling out of the woodwork. I'm just waiting for the next NIMBY group: Aboriginals.
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  8. #5508

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    Oh it's started. I was surprised about the amount of work done already beside Connors Hill. Lots of prepwork to be done, but it's well underway.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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    ^ Looking forward to actually seeing rail on site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    So the 66 Street Sloths have even less of a non-case.
    But, but aren't they going to halt the construction indefinitely because they weren't consulted at all???? Don't they have a right because of how much they will be inconvenienced so immensely???
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  11. #5511

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    ^ lol. Exactly.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  12. #5512

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    Valley Line funding heading west
    ELISE STOLTE
    Published on: November 3, 2016 | Last Updated: November 3, 2016 7:32 PM MDT

    ...

    Ottawa gave a long-term projection for transit funding Tuesday, adding $8 billion in the final two years of a now 12-year plan. The money means Edmonton can start building the west leg of the LRT to Lewis Farms as soon as work heading to Mill Woods is complete, as long as the province and city can contribute their share.

    Although a change in government would mean all bets are off, Sohi said mayors can bank on this commitment. “I have assured mayors across the country this is the money dedicated for public transit. …”This is a commitment of 12 years. This kind of commitment is unheard of and it’s a very unprecedented move on the part of our government.”

    Past funding was allocated based on transit ridership. Sohi said allocation details and criteria will be developed within the next couple months.

    The Liberals made similar increases to their social and green infrastructure funds.
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...used-by-trains

    Yessssssssssssss!!!!
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  13. #5513

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    12 year plans in a 4 year government seating should be taken with a grain of salt.

  14. #5514

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    (which it says in the quotation..)
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  15. #5515

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    12 year plans in a 4 year government seating should be taken with a grain of salt.
    Every government has set in motion events that the next government could not stop without getting thoroughly decimated. It doesn't matter who gets elected next, it would be suicide to axe commitments on the books. These are some strong commitments. Easy stuff. Near the end of their first term, they'll dig into the tough stuff - prostitution laws, further movement on weed, hijabs, etc. so anyone running against them will be fighting on those ideologies, while the bread and butter stuff like infrastructure investments are left alone as they aren't controversial.
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    Great news!

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    Bombardier in trouble again, this time with Metrolinx threatening to cancel their contract. These are the same LRV's planned for the VL. Iverson says he is watching the outcome closely, but it still makes me wonder how Bombardier won the contract with such a poor track record of late.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/metro...ract-1.3146243

  18. #5518

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    ^Iveson. Not Iverson.

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    Bombardier has a track record of court cases etc. and run a sloppy operation. I've been a critic of Trans Ed's decision of using Bombardier since the beginning. Valley might be completed on time but will there be LRV's on the tracks ready to go? Trans Ed should have stuck with Siemens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    ^Iveson. Not Iverson.
    We all know what the poster meant, yeesh already.
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  21. #5521

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    Yikes that looks clunky. They couldn't have gone with something more open, so you could actually still see across the street instead of this wall? The less invasive low-floor at work...


    Page 23: https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ro...rt_booklet.pdf

  22. #5522

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    Oh Edmonton...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  23. #5523

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    Why isn't the temple looking part over the entry to the tunnel, and then have tiles sloping down looking like the scaled back of a dragon or something, instead of this big block of cheap knockoff Chinese Lego.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  24. #5524

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    image on left: hey there's potential there
    after seeing the image on the right: wtf

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    when i first saw those images i thought they were just placeholders and stereotypical ones at that.

    to now reread the fine print in the link and see it says "Lettering on the gate pictured above is placeholder; final lettering will be determined through community consultation." meaning the stupid letters are placeholders but the design is real??? let me check my dictionary for the spelling of condescension.

    this is what it will look like but the community can consult on choosing the lettering on the stupid sign can?

    because we know nothing is chinese unless it's red and gold with a gold tile double - but fake - roof line with turned up pointed corners??

    we're finally getting our stations right (ie macewan) and then we're going to do this???
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  26. #5526

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    I don't think this is the station. This is the covering as it descends underground. Doesn't make it any less hideous of course.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  27. #5527

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    Cheap and tacky, but complements perfectly the existing so-called Harbin gate and the general pretense about interesting "ethnic" neighborhoods that in truth are just an ex-slum not quite fully razed.

    In short, I should expect nothing else there but this.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 04-11-2016 at 06:07 PM.

  28. #5528

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    ^should have looked to the past for inspiration:


  29. #5529

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    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...-lrt-1.3837679

    from article: "Iveson said he has reached out to TransEd through the city manager, Linda Cochrane, and been told the consortium remains confident Bombardier can deliver the light-rail vehicles." ""None of the contract partners get paid if any single partner fails to deliver on time", he said."

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    It will interesting to watch the new Kitchener/Waterloo LRT. They are getting the same vehicles as us, five segments long instead of seven, due to open next year.

    ooops
    LRT delayed until early 2018 due to Bombardier train delays
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitche...lays-1.3597328
    Last edited by Glenco; 04-11-2016 at 09:36 PM.
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  31. #5531

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    Keep in mind this is a concept rendering, not the final result. These things get polished considerably through final design.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Yikes that looks clunky. They couldn't have gone with something more open, so you could actually still see across the street instead of this wall? The less invasive low-floor at work...


    Page 23: https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ro...rt_booklet.pdf

  32. #5532

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    You guys are probably looking for this: https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/railsafety/...q-969.html#gcr

    It doesn't, however, offer a great deal more clarity, beyond 'there are negotiable options.'

    Valley Line is different from the high-floor in that the entire line is designed to basically operate at commuter traffic speeds, particularly concerning at-grade crossings. It won't pick up to maximum speeds at most points, with the exception of the elevated track in the Wagner area.

    The speeds in the various areas are in the Project Agreement, incidentally.

    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    The problem with gate/light grade crossings and LRT in Edmonton is that we've had them from the start. This is because the first line ran along the CN rail line and they were already there or were necessary becasue the heavy rail line was there. Edmonton then just continued to use them because no one thought any different. Thank God they are finally breaking the mould with the Valley Line!

  33. #5533

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    Correct. The new system is a mixed-priority system. The idea is it can stop at 'major' intersections during peak traffic (or be held at stop depending on traffic signal state), but will have priority through 'minor' intersections. DUring non-peak it may or may not take full priority.

    All this, however, can be adjusted based on the service curve set up in the project agreement, so City Admin/Council can tweak depending on priorities. More frequent/less frequent service times simply increase/reduce the service payments to TransEd accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by stevester View Post
    It seems the city has changed their tune since first convincing council that low-floor, urban LRT was the way to go. In 2009, the city's vehicle technology review fact sheet stated this: "A low-floor LRT system in Edmonton would operate on a track that is separate from traffic with traffic signal priority so trains would not stop at intersections." which is of course different than simply ensuring the efficiency of the LRT as they now say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Bombardier has a track record of court cases etc. and run a sloppy operation. I've been a critic of Trans Ed's decision of using Bombardier since the beginning. Valley might be completed on time but will there be LRV's on the tracks ready to go? Trans Ed should have stuck with Siemens.
    Bombardier is heavily supported by the federal and Quebec governments. The federal government kicked in a lot of funding for the project. Trudeau/Feds/Quebec/bombardier/Libs/private meetings/wink wink. Making sense to you now?

  35. #5535

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    ^
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Bombardier has a track record of court cases etc. and run a sloppy operation. I've been a critic of Trans Ed's decision of using Bombardier since the beginning. Valley might be completed on time but will there be LRV's on the tracks ready to go? Trans Ed should have stuck with Siemens.
    Bombardier is heavily supported by the federal and Quebec governments. The federal government kicked in a lot of funding for the project. Trudeau/Feds/Quebec/bombardier/Libs/private meetings/wink wink. Making sense to you now?
    That's ridiculous.

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    Actually, this was signed under Harper.

    In terms of "a lot of funding", well, no, actually Harper reduced the funding to 25% of the total, forcing the city to increase its share. Your whole idea is full of holes.

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    Original agreement was Harper then I saw Trudeau announce the actual funding to the project while in Edmonton then came bombardier, in that order

  39. #5539

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroknVaus View Post
    Keep in mind this is a concept rendering, not the final result. These things get polished considerably through final design.
    The document only says the chinese characters are placeholders, nothing else. And if this is just a concept rendering, they are off to an awful start. I can't comprehend how this happened.

    Does anyone know who is designing the stations/this portal on the new valley line?

  40. #5540

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    ^^ that low on foil?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Original agreement was Harper then I saw Trudeau announce the actual funding to the project while in Edmonton then came bombardier, in that order
    Selective memory.
    On February 15, 2012, city council approved the Downtown LRT concept plan. The Downtown LRT Project became part of the Southeast to West LRT project.[14] The city hoped to have money in place by the end of 2013 for the $1.8-billion LRT line from downtown to Mill Woods to start construction in 2016. City council committed $800 million, the federal government invested $250 million, and $235 million would come from the provincial government, leaving a $515 million funding gap delaying the project.[15] On March 11, 2014, it was announced that the project would be completely funded[16][17] with an additional $150 million from the federal government and $365 million From provincial.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_Line_(Edmonton)
    bolding by me
    funding was announced long before the election.
    Last edited by Glenco; 05-11-2016 at 04:55 PM.
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  42. #5542

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    The statement is indeed incorrect. There were three consortia that made it through the RFP: Moving YEG, River City Transit, and TransEd Partners.

    Each one had picked its LRV supplier well in advance of the final contract being awarded (between 18 months and 2 years, approx).

    The final bid was chosen by lowest net present value. That was TransEd Partners, consisting of Fengate, EllisDon, Bechtel, and Bombardier as primaries.

    The federal government had no influence on the final process, and was in fact (as noted elsewhere) the lowest funding partner (and also the first ones in, with the initial $250 funding million announcement from P3 Canada in 2013).

    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Bombardier has a track record of court cases etc. and run a sloppy operation. I've been a critic of Trans Ed's decision of using Bombardier since the beginning. Valley might be completed on time but will there be LRV's on the tracks ready to go? Trans Ed should have stuck with Siemens.
    Bombardier is heavily supported by the federal and Quebec governments. The federal government kicked in a lot of funding for the project. Trudeau/Feds/Quebec/bombardier/Libs/private meetings/wink wink. Making sense to you now?
    That's ridiculous.

  43. #5543

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    I don't recall who did the concept rendering. As to quality/appearance--trust me--unless they're the high gloss ones (which cost an arm and a leg to commission) these renderings *always* look terrible at the outset.

    I believe the firm doing the final design under TransEd is ARUP, but am not 100% that they have this particular project element.

    edit: I should note that Chmilz is correct in their response to kcantor--it's not the station (actually, the 'stop', to be pedantic), it's the portal cover.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by BroknVaus View Post
    Keep in mind this is a concept rendering, not the final result. These things get polished considerably through final design.
    The document only says the chinese characters are placeholders, nothing else. And if this is just a concept rendering, they are off to an awful start. I can't comprehend how this happened.

    Does anyone know who is designing the stations/this portal on the new valley line?
    Last edited by BroknVaus; 05-11-2016 at 06:34 PM.

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    Like Mayor Iveson said there are a lot of checks and balances here. There are timelines for everything with Valley. All I'm saying is Bombardier is a corrupt company. They run a sloppy operation. I never said anything about funding from any level of Government.
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  45. #5545

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    The funding part of my reply was directed to Drumbones' response, not yours. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Like Mayor Iveson said there are a lot of checks and balances here. There are timelines for everything with Valley. All I'm saying is Bombardier is a corrupt company. They run a sloppy operation. I never said anything about funding from any level of Government.

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    Bombardier makes pretty good planes and trains.

    Their LRT vehicles are very well designed.

    Their trains are used for high-speed rail. They are high performance.

    And their aircraft have proven to be more fuel efficient, quieter and better designed for passengers than the competition (Bombardier C Series vs Airbus A320 and Boeing 737).

    However they are very often late. All parties should be aware of that.

    And, the Quebec government has loaned them money several times. *Note the federal government has NOT yet provided them funding although they have asked.

  47. #5547

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    Demolition of the Union Tractor building to make way for Davies Station is underway. Fencing has also been put up over the weekend in W.P. Wagner Park around where the elevated track will go.

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    Hopefully 75th Street get rid of those ugly telephone poles during the construction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Yikes that looks clunky. They couldn't have gone with something more open, so you could actually still see across the street instead of this wall? The less invasive low-floor at work...


    Page 23: https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ro...rt_booklet.pdf
    REALLY??? That's the best this city can do???? WHY am I surprised???
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    Judge throws out legal bid to stall construction of Valley Line LRT

    Court of Queen’s Bench Justice Donna Shelley told Chris Christianson that his application “must fail” as he did not meet the three-part legal test required in an injunction application.

    Shelley ruled some of Christianson’s concerns were “highly speculative” and said his application was not properly before the court as he had not put forth a proper cause of action.
    Shelley also ruled that even if Christianson was to suffer some future loss as a result of the LRT construction, it is not an “irreparable” loss as he is entitled to seek compensation from the city.
    As well, the judge found that on the balance of convenience test, the consequences to the city “greatly outweigh” Christianson’s concerns.
    Shelley also ordered Christianson to pay $4,000 in legal costs to the City of Edmonton and Atco.
    Christianson had argued he should not have to pay legal costs as his “rights as a citizen” had been “violated,” but Shelley told him it is the “unfortunate” cost of bringing an unsuccessful court application.

    (http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...alley-line-lrt)

  51. #5551

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    Back to reality then.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    JC, if the city let every special interest group and guys like Christianson have their way It might take 20+ years for the Valley line to get going. Enough is enough already. Just wait until when the LRT runs down 156th street and all the apartments between 99th and 95th Ave have their kick at the can. yeesh.
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    I like that the judge ordered him to pay the CoE costs. Don't bring frivolous lawsuits forward if you don't want to pay for the consequences. In the end I doubt he'll have to pay, but at least make him sweat a bit and establish a precedent for others like him.

  54. #5554

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    He won't have to pay?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  55. #5555

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    What a crybaby. I hope the judge holds him to having to pay. He'll get it covered by sympathetic morons via Gofundme anyway. I hope when the LRT is finished the city mails him a couple free LRT passes so he can make it downtown to pay the fees in person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    He won't have to pay?
    The city may not pursue the legal cost as long as he behaves himself.
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    So all the new paving on 66th street, will they be transferring traffic onto those lanes to free up space so they can begin prep work in earnest? I'm surprised that the building south of the 83st T-junction has not been torn down to make way for the future elevated rail.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Q1-yes
    The buildings south of Argyll at 83 st are gone

  59. #5559

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    Correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    So all the new paving on 66th street, will they be transferring traffic onto those lanes to free up space so they can begin prep work in earnest? I'm surprised that the building south of the 83st T-junction has not been torn down to make way for the future elevated rail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Q1-yes
    The buildings south of Argyll at 83 st are gone
    What about Tile town, Sandy Lane Auto, and the buildings behind them on Coronete Rd gone as well?
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    All of those beautiful elm trees on on 85 st have been chopped down. Was that really necessary? Could they have left some on one side at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    All of those beautiful elm trees on on 85 st have been chopped down. Was that really necessary? Could they have left some on one side at least.
    I thought the same thing. The widening of the road to accomodate the railbed I would assume is the reason.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    All of those beautiful elm trees on on 85 st have been chopped down. Was that really necessary? Could they have left some on one side at least.
    I thought the same thing. The widening of the road to accomodate the railbed I would assume is the reason.
    I am sure that is why they did it but do they really need 4 lanes plus service roads on either side. 85 street is not that busy, never has been. Three lanes one north bound one south with a turning lane would suffice and save one row of trees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    All of those beautiful elm trees on on 85 st have been chopped down. Was that really necessary? Could they have left some on one side at least.
    I thought the same thing. The widening of the road to accomodate the railbed I would assume is the reason.
    I am sure that is why they did it but do they really need 4 lanes plus service roads on either side. 85 street is not that busy, never has been. Three lanes one north bound one south with a turning lane would suffice and save one row of trees.
    I agree. In a city that promotes itself as GREEN, that took me by surprise as well.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  65. #5565
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    Hopefully the trees on 85 Street get replaced at the end.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  66. #5566
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  67. #5567

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    Since they removed the trees on 85st., while the speed of the cars has increased, the traffic stops much more readily at the two uncontrolled mid block pedestrian crossings - both lanes.

  68. #5568
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    Driving about today checking the progress from Whitemud inward. Are they ever moving slowly on it.

  69. #5569

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Driving about today checking the progress from Whitemud inward. Are they ever moving slowly on it.
    lol, compared to what? Shows on HGTV? This is a 5-year project, proceeding on multiple fronts simultaneously, that hasn't even been going for a year.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  70. #5570
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    Compared to something of much higher importance with a shiny roof.

  71. #5571

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    ^ project you are comparing to is much smaller than this LRT line (budget wise, scope of project wise, size of project...), and is only a single site, and didn't involve much tear down to get it started. Things will pick up big time come spring.

  72. #5572
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    I don't know how much work the city can do before next spring. I imagine some digging and utilities once the 75th Street detours are complete.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  73. #5573

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    Shiny things are not as important in the long run as decent transportation links. People whose public opinions have visibly changed with Trump's victory are not expected to understand this.

  74. #5574

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    ^ reaching much? Sounds like you could use a hug. Not sure what trump has to do with this.

  75. #5575

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Q1-yes
    The buildings south of Argyll at 83 st are gone
    What about Tile town, Sandy Lane Auto, and the buildings behind them on Coronete Rd gone as well?
    So Tile town has been moved about one building to the right, while the building that is in the way of the line has been demolished. (Or partly demolished, I cant remember what the are looked like before). The building behind it on coronet road is still there, but it's been gutted, so it doesn't look like it'll be too long before that's gone too.
    "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." - Dalai Lama

  76. #5576
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    Quote Originally Posted by gneagu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Q1-yes
    The buildings south of Argyll at 83 st are gone
    What about Tile town, Sandy Lane Auto, and the buildings behind them on Coronete Rd gone as well?
    So Tile town has been moved about one building to the right, while the building that is in the way of the line has been demolished. (Or partly demolished, I cant remember what the are looked like before). The building behind it on coronet road is still there, but it's been gutted, so it doesn't look like it'll be too long before that's gone too.
    Actually Tile Town remained in the same space they have been in, just did a facelift on the exterior.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  77. #5577

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    Actually, the building was literally cut in half at that location, which is probably what is causing the confusion

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by gneagu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Q1-yes
    The buildings south of Argyll at 83 st are gone
    What about Tile town, Sandy Lane Auto, and the buildings behind them on Coronete Rd gone as well?
    So Tile town has been moved about one building to the right, while the building that is in the way of the line has been demolished. (Or partly demolished, I cant remember what the are looked like before). The building behind it on coronet road is still there, but it's been gutted, so it doesn't look like it'll be too long before that's gone too.
    Actually Tile Town remained in the same space they have been in, just did a facelift on the exterior.

  78. #5578
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    So they have been steadily working on the site for the new train yards. It looks like the main construction trailers are essentially ready to go and they have been doing continual grading around the site. A big hill has found its way onto the west side of the site, I wonder if it will remain or if they are simply storing dirt there. I'm also very glad that they have completely upgraded the roadway going right next to the site from gravel to full curbs and asphalt, even some landscaping with new trees.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    https://app.box.com/shared/static/sr...vilabsbx2i.jpg

    Ugh this is just embarrassing. Vancouver and Ottawa can build their lines, without any road crossings, for roughly the same cost as ours. Their trains will also be quicker and more frequent.

  80. #5580

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    I still can't believe the travel time for the valley line. That's just to get to 23rd ave in mill woods - not good if they ever extend the line further south. I guess throw on another at least 20 minutes for the bus ride from Town Centre to get home. Also shocking that the skytrain, that is completely on it's own ROW is cheaper.

    Ottawa's line is nearly the exact same length, same amount of stops, and is 8 minutes faster...

  81. #5581

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Ottawa's line is nearly the exact same length, same amount of stops, and is 8 minutes faster...
    ... and has a tunnel that assuredly isn't going through any built parts of the city...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  82. #5582
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    Ottawa's line is nearly the exact same length, same amount of stops, and is 8 minutes faster...
    ... and has a tunnel that assuredly isn't going through any built parts of the city...
    The tunnel goes through downtown Ottawa.

    The entire Ottawa line is basically in it's own ROW, often grade separated, so that's the difference between it and the Valley line in terms of speed/length of time to travel.

  83. #5583
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    Ottawa's Confederation Line goes into a tunnel before entering Downtown to avoid conflicts with pedestrians and other transportation modes.

    Edmonton's Valley Line comes out of a tunnel entering Downtown to run at street level thereby inviting those conflicts.

    The most galling thing is that Edmonton isn't even saving money by running trains at street level.

  84. #5584

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    Is Ottawa's line taking over one of their BRT routes? If so that should be included in their cost. Those weren't free.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Is Ottawa's line taking over one of their BRT routes? If so that should be included in their cost. Those weren't free.
    It's taken over a huge chunk of the existing 'transitway' which was a mostly grade separated section of the BRT routes. They're basically having to rebuild it for the LRT for various reason, and they had to create temporary bus lanes so that bus service could continue outside of it during LRT construction. Far less road impacts than building an entirely new line in a new ROW though like Edmonton.

    I've read complaints though that commute times for some people will be longer with the LRT though in Ottawa. Mainly those not near the LRT that will have to switch transportation modes (Bus transfer to LRT).

    As for the Ottawa choice of a tunnel, I can't find any documentation on why it was done vs. a surface line, but I would guess that it was more to do with going over the Rideau Canal rather than avoiding conflicts with other modes of transportation. There are already dedicated rush hour bus lanes downtown that could be removed after the LRT is completed. But there would be issues with space trying to cross the canal and go through the University land that is less of an issue with Downtown Edmonton.

  86. #5586
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post

    https://app.box.com/shared/static/sr...vilabsbx2i.jpg

    Ugh this is just embarrassing. Vancouver and Ottawa can build their lines, without any road crossings, for roughly the same cost as ours. Their trains will also be quicker and more frequent.
    I'm starting to get very concerned that this will become another "boondoggle" in the mind of the public. They will see the trains crawling along at 12 KM/H. They will think that the city is incompetent.

    It is like a crash happening in slow motion. There will be all the usual upset over city mismanagement etc. Just watch.

  87. #5587
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    I think the mentality of the city isn't to build a faster transit system, it's ridership.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  88. #5588
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    Ya, but most people want to get where they're going at something more than a 'snail's pace'.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  89. #5589

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    This LRT line kinda goes against the proposed changes to ETS bus routes... They want the LRT to be the high speed back bone of the system...But yet they've got this thing stopping every few blocks....If ETS wants to gain ridership, make the system attractive to the people who might use it. They want to get places in a reasonable amount of time...

  90. #5590
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    I went to a presentation about this LRT line and these decisions were purposefully taken to move away from a rapid, peak hours, suburbs to downtown move people in and out type system, to a dual direction, more consistent ridership, move people between multiple nodes.
    It's not as though this wasn't thought through and a conscious choice made.
    Now, is that the best choice, we will have to see how it turns out...how does it reconcile with the new busing strategy with seems to be more geared towards rapid people movement...

    I have a vested interest, because of the choice they made, I get an LRT stop only a couple hundred meters from my house so I have a bias. Now, had they decided to stick with the previous style of LRT and run down Connors road instead of 95ave and had a stop even closer, I might be singing the praises of that even louder.

  91. #5591
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    Has anyone confirmed that the numbers in that Global report are truly apples to apples? I seem to recall posters here in the past saying that often those comparisons aren't accurate, as Edmonton budgets it's projects differently. IE: the quoted price for Edmonton will include rolling stock and other transportation improvements/changes (associated roadwork etc) that other cities do not.

  92. #5592

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    ^ They're definitely not apples to apples there. As Channing just pointed out, much of the LRT ROW in Ottawa is the already in-place Transitways ROW. Simply massive leap to imply that's not part of the cost -- a "free" 13 km right-of-way? As if.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Ours also includes the maintenance and operating costs for 30+ years does it not?

  94. #5594

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    the ROW might be there, but will require them to rip up the entire road base, and lay down track... so it's not like the ROW is built already. Removing the roadway will require siginificant work.And its not like the tunnel is all that cheap.I believe its P3 as well? Someone should confirm that.

  95. #5595
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Ours also includes the maintenance and operating costs for 30+ years does it not?
    No the operating costs are separate. This is the capital cost portion.

  96. #5596

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post

    https://app.box.com/shared/static/sr...vilabsbx2i.jpg

    Ugh this is just embarrassing. Vancouver and Ottawa can build their lines, without any road crossings, for roughly the same cost as ours. Their trains will also be quicker and more frequent.
    I'm starting to get very concerned that this will become another "boondoggle" in the mind of the public. They will see the trains crawling along at 12 KM/H. They will think that the city is incompetent.

    It is like a crash happening in slow motion. There will be all the usual upset over city mismanagement etc. Just watch.
    With the continual mandating of slower speeds in the city to 30KM its all OK. Slow is the new Black. Pretty soon being on a bike will be the fastest transportation. anybody tries to give me a ticket I'll just lose them in a back alley or say Iveson is a pal..


    Hey at least with speeds this slow pedestrains might be safer albeit I doubt it with the nonstop immersion in ever increasing distracting and virtual stimuli. Maybe pokemon could imbed trains, planes and vehicles to look out for..
    Last edited by Replacement; 08-12-2016 at 09:31 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  97. #5597

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think the mentality of the city isn't to build a faster transit system, it's ridership.
    ???


    What? Time is money. People utilize efficient transport. Modes that work well are timely in nature.


    I'm not convinced this city, or you know what creates ridership.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  98. #5598

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    I imagine the city councils of the future will just have to set aside money to fix the LRT lines built during this decade. We've already seen them discussing proposals for the NAIT LRT over princess Elizabeth, only 1 year after that line came in operation. Proposals for improving this line by 2025? seems possible.

  99. #5599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    I imagine the city councils of the future will just have to set aside money to fix the LRT lines built during this decade. We've already seen them discussing proposals for the NAIT LRT over princess Elizabeth, only 1 year after that line came in operation. Proposals for improving this line by 2025? seems possible.
    This line is being maintained and operated by a 3rd party. Taking the line down or doing modifications will be complicated by that fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Ours also includes the maintenance and operating costs for 30+ years does it not?
    No the operating costs are separate. This is the capital cost portion.
    In case some people haven't seen the cost breakdown, looks like the operating costs and major rehab costs are factored in.






    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/Ro...ril%202016.pdf

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