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Thread: Responding to letters in the Journal/ Sun

  1. #1
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    Default Responding to letters in the Journal/ Sun

    I've always wished I had a forum to retort some of the ridiculous things I read in the comment section of both papers, So here it is!

    Present the letter or column (credit the source), then post your retort. I'll go first:

    White elephant

    The Edmonton JournalApril 24, 2009

    What is going on at the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute? As far as I can see, absolutely nothing!

    This hospital, which cost a whopping $217 million, is just sitting there. It officially opened more than a year ago with great fanfare, and now it just sits. What's with that?

    What does Health Minister Ron Liepert have to say? From where I sit, it is the biggest white elephant in the city, and has to be the laughingstock of health-care professionals everywhere. My blood boils when I read of all the cuts being made to health care, and this building is sitting idle.

    M.K. Reid, Edmonton
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...373/story.html


    Well M.K. Ried, a little research would have dug up the fact that the base building was constructed with the intent to fit it up as needed. Here is a recent RFP for exactly that:

    Project Information:PART 2 - MAZANKOWSKI ALBERTA HEART INSTITUTE - TENANT IMPROVEMENTS: FLOORS 3, 6, 7, AND 8

    Interior fit-out work within Floors 3, 6, 7, and 8 and within adjoining interstitial spaces in the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute to "LEED CI" requirements.
    "PRE-QUALIFIED PRIME GENERAL, MECHANICAL & ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS ONLY." See Project 2009-E0563


    but no, write uninformed, indignant letters to the paper, by all means.
    Last edited by 240GLT; 24-04-2009 at 02:25 PM.

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    ^haha...

    awesome
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  3. #3

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    Here's how I would have written the article:


    Health or Hockey? Why trade the two?

    What is going on at the Mazankowski Alberta Heart Institute? It cost a whopping $217 million. For that amount of money, we could have probably built 2/3rds of a brand new downtown arena (at today's prices). With a new arena - the Oilers will attract new support, feel good about themselves, and maybe make the playoffs. That will encourage my kids to exercise more, in the goal of becoming NHL'ers (as it is, they are talking about learning golf). With an arena, our hearts will be healthier, and we won't need these institutes.

    Just kidding (almost as silly as the original).
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-04-2009 at 02:33 PM.

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    Well the hospital still has yet to open for patients... from what I've heard is that they purchased all the medical equipment before even having a design for the building itself. Now all the equipment is outdated and doesn't even fit in the spaces designed for it. So yea... it is a touch embarrassing to be honest.

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    ^ I'd like to see some proof of that

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    That's just a rumor I've heard working at the U of A... it's quite likely not true, but you never know with the way some things are run by our provincial gov't.

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    A recent Venting entry:

    - The Hat on Jasper is our new favourite restaurant. It's just too bad it doesn't have a deck or patio. But then, this is Edmonton. It's hardly worth it for the two weeks of summer.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^Yeah - it feels like we will be lucky to get 2 weeks this year. That's one's actually pretty neat I think (writer is asking for a patio, and adding a bit of humor).

  9. #9

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    If this summer is anything like last summer, the venter needs a kick in the teeth. 2008 was the longest, hottest summer in memory. I'll concede that I can't remember things I said at the beginning of a conversation by the end of a conversation, but last summer was fantastic in any case.

    I'm hating all vents and newspaper articles when people use the phrase "Big 3" when griping about car companies, when Ford clearly stands on its own above the other two shameless companies.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    99% of the venting in papers is uneducated. That's what makes it mostly frustrating but sometimes entertaining.

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    Back to the original post, If nothing has gone on in the building for more than a year and they are just now putting out RFP's then Mr. Reid does have a point.
    I can see putting up a building with room to expand, but if nothing has gone in then it's a Potemkin like joke.

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    Writing letters to the Sun only generates some trite, one-line retort from an in-house hack. Waste of time.

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    The Maz what, officially opened like a year and a half a go but hasn't served a single patient yet? I'd say some questions and critism is well deserved. Hopefully somebody got a pink slip over this....somebody messed up bad.

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    Last I heard, the mazankowski institute is supposed to open at the end of June.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Two from today's Venting column...
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...872/story.html

    - While outdoor cafes are nice to have in the summer, the space they take up on the sidewalks makes them impractical the rest of the year.
    So what's the solution? Bigger sidewalks or no patios allowed in Edmonton?


    - If you support the closing the City Centre Airport and allowing it to be developed, remember your choice when you're stuck in the traffic that results from the thousands of vehicles that will call that area home.
    Boo hoo hooo! If traffic jams are your concern then let's convert the whole downtown into one giant airport.



    Here is a cranky letter writer:
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/opini...917/story.html


    Oilers 'dream team' coverage excessive

    It is a good thing that a cure for cancer was not discovered this week -- Edmontonians would not have heard about it due to the media coverage of the Oilers new "dream team." Some radio stations even pre-empted regular programming to cover the story.

    I am sure some Edmontonians find this obsessive preoccupation with the Oilers rather embarrassing. Believe it or not, there are people in this city who are not interested in watching a bunch of unmotivated millionaires chase after a piece of rubber over the course of a very long season.

    Yes, the "dream team" probably is news; but it is a sports story and should be in the sports section. Surely there are more important things to place on the front page of a major newspaper. How about the fact that the number of EI recipients in Alberta increased 32 per cent in March? Fortunately for the Oilers new coaching staff, they will not be included in that statistic.

    Janet Sacuta, Edmonton
    Some people should have more fun in their life.

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    This Edmonton Sun letter writer is dumb for not knowing hockey. But the Sun editor is just as dumb for not pointing out that fans are saying "Louuuu", not "Booooo":

    Since when is it appropriate to boo a player on Team Canada for doing their job? I had to turn off the TV, I was so ashamed, knowing that every person in the world was going to hear those fools in Vancouver discourage our goalie. What are they hoping to achieve? Discourage the goalie? Check. Make fools of ourselves on international TV? Check. I hope every person who was booing fell on their butts on the way out.

    Matt Rempel
    (Poor sportsmanship, eh?)
    http://www.edmontonsun.com/comment/l.../13029431.html
    Today's responses:
    To Matt Rempel, who thought fans in Vancouver we’re booing Team Canada’s goalie. I really hope you are joking: either that or you don’t follow NHL hockey at all. The fans in the stands were not “booing”, they were “Louuuing” for Bobby Lou, a.k.a Roberto Luongo. Discouraging the goalie and making fools of themselves? Nope. Cheering Lou everytime he made a great save? Check.

    Travis Nielsen
    (Thanks. Seemed strange timing to non-hockey fans.)


    Um, Hey Matt, you actually shut your T.V. off, I fell on my butt reading your letter. The goalie for Team Canada is Roberto Luongo, and they were chanting Loooooooo not booooooo!!!! Even the person who remarks at the end of each letter didn’t catch that. “Poor sportsmanship, eh?” Oh well. Go Canada, Go Loooooo to the gold!

    Bob Brunet
    (Yeah, OK, point made. But 20 letters on just this? Oy.)

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/comment/l.../13042676.html

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    "They're saying, 'Boo-urns! Boo-urns!'"
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    For some reason I like this idea a lot (it took a long time for me to notice it) and I think it should get the opportunity to spread like wild fire. So because I can, I am stickying this. Keep the laughs coming.
    Time to grow up.

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    a nice one, although from the Calgary Herald...story about the bullet train and how it may affect the rural community - love how the comment starts off with , as an Edmontonian ..mmmhhhmmmm

    anonymous
    9:47 AM on March 22, 2010

    As an Edmontonian who despises having to use our own Leduc Airport, I would happily take this train to catch one of the great connections at YYC.
    Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Bu...#ixzz0iuqCFzLo

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    Another letter from the Calgary Herald, and apparently the paper has confirmed it is not a joke.

    #nosehillgentleman jokes are all over twitter though.

    I recently visited Calgary from Michigan. As a police officer for 20 years, it feels strange not to carry my off-duty hand-gun. Many would say I have no need to carry one in Canada.


    Yet the police cannot protect everyone all the time. A man should be al-lowed to protect himself if the need arises. The need arose in a theatre in Aurora, Colo., as well as a college campus in Canada.


    Recently, while out for a walk in Nose Hill Park, in broad daylight on a paved trail, two young men approached my wife and me. The men stepped in front of us, then said in a very aggressive tone: "Been to the Stampede yet?"
    We ignored them. The two moved closer, repeating: "Hey, you been to the Stampede yet?"


    I quickly moved between these two and my wife, replying, "Gentle-men, I have no need to talk with you, goodbye." They looked bewildered, and we then walked past them.


    I speculate they did not have good intentions when they approached in such an aggressive, disrespectful and menacing manner. I thank the Lord Jesus Christ they did not pull a weapon of some sort, but rather concluded it was in their best interest to leave us alone.


    Would we not expect a uniformed officer to pull his or her weapon to intercede in a life-or-death encounter to protect self, or another? Why then should the expectation be lower for a citizen of Canada or a visitor? Wait, I know - it's because in Canada, only the criminals and the police carry handguns.

    Walt Wawra, Kalamazoo, Mich.

  21. #21
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    Apparently the two gentlemen were trying to give them tickets to the Stampede. The thought of that ***** patrolling the streets armed with a sidearm should be terrifying for the citizens of Michigan.

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    Journal comments is now linked to Facebook accounts. Funny how comments are fewer and much more civilized.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/techn...tml?id=7195492

    Good! I know I will be commenting a lot more on Journal articles. The old system was too clunky and a pain in the neck to log in.

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    Facebook commenting encourages a civil discourse online

    There were a lot of reasons for the change from an in-house comment moderation system to one administered by Facebook, but many of them boil down to one simple fact: the old comment system wasn’t working. It was not in the best way to promote civil discourse, which has always been our goal.

    There are three main advantages to the new system, aside from the esthetics of the layout (which is nicer-looking in my opinion). The first is to eliminate most of the anonymity. Your comments now contain a link to the public face of your Facebook profile, displaying information to the degree that you’ve metered out your privacy settings.

    Yes, it’s possible to create a fake profile or display a picture of your dog, even if Facebook frowns upon that sort of behaviour. But it’s still easier to respond to a name and photo than a sea of Anonymous, or a long string of numbers and letters — which is what dominated our previous commenting system.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...563/story.html

  25. #25

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    The Journal may have removed the anonmity of people posting but it may also get a slanted view of how people feel about certain articles. Let's face it, a person is more likely going to leave positive comments if they are using their real name. A person who is hopping mad may want to comment but not want their name attached to certain comments. Could be for conflict of interest reasons, fear, ridicule or other reasons.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The Journal may have removed the anonmity of people posting but it may also get a slanted view of how people feel about certain articles. Let's face it, a person is more likely going to leave positive comments if they are using their real name. A person who is hopping mad may want to comment but not want their name attached to certain comments. Could be for conflict of interest reasons, fear, ridicule or other reasons.

    Not really. Let's use an issue like the new arena debate for an example. People have strong feelings from both sides of the debate (the pro vs. the against building a new arena).

    Lot's of people are totally against the funding and Katz asking for more concessions. I'm sure if they are strongly against a new arena they will post their feelings. I've seen the debate on other newsites like Global Edmonton, which also uses facebook.

    The main thing is the debate is way, way more civil by using facebook. It's not perfect but it is a huge improvement from the gong show previously.

    Also, if anything, people respond more to negative news.
    Last edited by North Guy66; 16-09-2012 at 11:13 PM.

  27. #27

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    Oh I agree the comments are way more civil but not all the articles are going to be about arenas. There could be articles about religion, gay rights, abortions, medical issues the list goes on. Take and example your company goes on strike, you are against it but strike because it's expected of you. Now, if there is an article in the paper saying that it was unanamous the workers wanted to strike some people may want to write in and say that is just not true. Who would want the backlash if their name was on something like that.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

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    ^ Well not all articles are going to be about a labour dispute either, so you are missing the point.

    Obviously if someone is that intimately connected to a news story, such as a striking worker, she will be reluctant to use her facebook profile to make a comment in the Journal. But for the 99.8% of readers who are not connected to a story, there will be positive AND negative feedback among them.
    Last edited by North Guy66; 17-09-2012 at 10:00 AM.

  29. #29

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    In unrelated news Facebook has seen a increase of fake user accounts in the Edmonton region...

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    I don't have a facebook account and refuse to get one so I guess I won't be leaving anymore Journal comments. Perhap's I'll make a fake one...

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The Journal may have removed the anonmity of people posting but it may also get a slanted view of how people feel about certain articles. Let's face it, a person is more likely going to leave positive comments if they are using their real name. A person who is hopping mad may want to comment but not want their name attached to certain comments. Could be for conflict of interest reasons, fear, ridicule or other reasons.

    Not really. Let's use an issue like the new arena debate for an example. People have strong feelings from both sides of the debate (the pro vs. the against building a new arena).

    Lot's of people are totally against the funding and Katz asking for more concessions. I'm sure if they are strongly against a new arena they will post their feelings. I've seen the debate on other newsites like Global Edmonton, which also uses facebook.

    The main thing is the debate is way, way more civil by using facebook. It's not perfect but it is a huge improvement from the gong show previously.

    Also, if anything, people respond more to negative news.
    I haven't noticed any change in the quantity of positive or negative comments by percentage, but definitely a huge reduction in repetitive, frothing at the mouth, knuckledraggery. There's clearly a few phony accounts being used to comment on a lot of articles, but overall the comments have become more coherent and thought out, as commenters (real ones, anyway) can now be judged by their peers.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Top_Dawg figgers that The Sun always has the best headlines.

    But today The Journal came out with a beauty:

    ' City mulls $500,000 option to fix stink in west end '



    Could apply to so many things.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Top_Dawg figgers that The Sun always has the best headlines.

    But today The Journal came out with a beauty:

    ' City mulls $500,000 option to fix stink in west end '



    Could apply to so many things.
    Probably helps they are functionally the same paper now.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  34. #34

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    To your point: How long before the Edmonton Journal and the Edmonton Sun are merged? David Climenhaga

    ^Also, I appreciated your letter in the Journal, was it last week?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    To your point: How long before the Edmonton Journal and the Edmonton Sun are merged? David Climenhaga

    ^Also, I appreciated your letter in the Journal, was it last week?
    Not me unless it was an article comment on their site. Even then I wasn't in the country last week.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  36. #36

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    Could have sworn. Funny, the subject of the letter was something you've commented on in the past.

    I was out of town as well and caught up on a whack of Journal's all at once on my return.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Could have sworn. Funny, the subject of the letter was something you've commented on in the past.

    I was out of town as well and caught up on a whack of Journal's all at once on my return.
    Now I'm curious.

    Do you have a rough idea of the day? I'd like to know if I have an intellectual doppelgänger. Or if I've been posting in my sleep.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    I was out of town as well and caught up on a whack of Journal's all at once on my return.


    Now that must have been some painful reading.


  39. #39

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    ^^I tried to look it up but couldn't pin down a date. Keep your eyes peeled though.

    ^Absence makes the heart grow fonder and all that. Surprisingly, after reading a variety of dailies all summer The Journal stacks up rather well. Particularly the City Section. Sports continues to be sadly lacking. Improved sports coverage might be an upside to merging with The Sun.

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