View Poll Results: Will you get a swine flu shot?

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    42 54.55%
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Thread: Will you get a swine flu shot?

  1. #101

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    ^No. The vaccine allows your body to naturally develop anti-bodies, exactly the same way it would if you were infected. The only difference is that you can develop them over a couple of weeks without getting sick. Vaccines make your imune system stronger, you are training your body for a fight, to the extent that you will be so strong, you will knock the infection out the moment it enters. Without that training, the virus will overwhelm some people, perhaps even to the point where they are killed before they make sufficient anti-body to defeat the virus.
    Last edited by moahunter; 27-10-2009 at 04:14 PM.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If you are 25-49 years of age, you are in the high risk group for H1N1.
    Lets not spread miss information

    as outlined by AHS;

    All Albertans are welcome to receive their H1N1 immunization. However, AHS encourages individuals who are at high risk to get vaccinated as soon as possible. This includes:
    • People under 65 with chronic health conditions and their caregivers.
    • Pregnant women.
    • Children six months to less than five years of age and their caregivers.
    • People living in remote and isolated settings or communities.
    • Health care workers involved in pandemic response or the delivery of essential health care services.
    • Household contacts and care providers of persons at risk who cannot be immunized or may not respond to vaccines.
    More people have died of H1N1 in 25-49 age group than any other.

    That is not misinformation. (or "miss information" as you prefer to call it)

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Don't we need to be exposed to things like "the Flu" so that we can survive things like... the common cold?!
    No. As a matter of fact, that question makes absolutely no sense. Why would a person have to suffer through the adverse effects of a potentially serious disease (influenza) in order to "survive" a disease that will not kill you (cold)?


    Your body's immune system responds to the vaccine EXACTLY the same way it responds to the virus. it protects you afterwards in teh same way as well. But you have a choice:

    1. Contract the illness, suffer through the disease, and gain immunity to that ONE germ that caused the illness.

    or

    2. Get vaccinated and gain immunity to that ONE germ that causes the illness, without having to suffer through the illness.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    If you are 25-49 years of age, you are in the high risk group for H1N1.
    Lets not spread miss information

    as outlined by AHS;




    All Albertans are welcome to receive their H1N1 immunization. However, AHS encourages individuals who are at high risk to get vaccinated as soon as possible. This includes:
    • People under 65 with chronic health conditions and their caregivers.
    • Pregnant women.
    • Children six months to less than five years of age and their caregivers.
    • People living in remote and isolated settings or communities.
    • Health care workers involved in pandemic response or the delivery of essential health care services.
    • Household contacts and care providers of persons at risk who cannot be immunized or may not respond to vaccines.
    More people have died of H1N1 in 25-49 age group than any other.

    That is not misinformation. (or "miss information" as you prefer to call it)

    I'm sorry but the WHO is not defining the 25-49 age group as a High risk group...

    Is it posibble that the majority of these people had Cronic or underlying conditions though.. MAYBE.

    From the WHO website... I do not fall under the high risk decriptors, despite what you may personally feel.

    Who is most at risk from H1N1?

    Though people with underlying health conditions are considered more vulnerable to the virus, young and healthy teenagers and adults under 50-years-old have also become seriously ill and in some cases died.
    Consequently young and healthy teens and adults should seek immediate medical care if they show serious symptoms of this virus.
    However, people with pre-existing health conditions are considered especially vulnerable as some have become seriously ill and died from this virus.
    Pre-existing health conditions evident in people who have fallen seriously ill or died from this virus include serious respiratory conditions such as asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.


    Other high-risk groups include persons with chronic illness predisposing to severe influenza such as:
    • Cardiac disease
    • Diabetes mellitus
    • Chronic metabolic diseases
    • Chronic renal diseases
    • Haemoglobinopathies (genetically inherited disorders of red blood cell haemoglobin including sickle cell disease and the thalassaemias.)
    • Immunosuppressive diseases (including cancers, HIV/AIDS infection, drugs)
    • Chronic neurological conditions
    The following groups of people are also at risk:
    • Pregnant women, particularly in second and third trimesters.
    • Persons with morbid obesity.
    • Indigenous peoples of any age.

  5. #105

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    From http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...g_h1n1-eng.php

    Adults 19 to 64 years of age: As compared to adults over 65, this group has an increased rate of infection and a higher risk of severe outcomes.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  6. #106

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    Lets look at the entire list shal we..BECAUSE when you do you will find that the list covers just about EVERY demographic on the planet. Again you will notice the same HIGH RISK set of qualifiers.

    Below is from the Gov't of Canada Website.
    Q2. What are the GoC recommendations on who should get the vaccine first?
    Keeping in mind that we have ordered enough vaccine for every Canadian that needs and wants to be immunized, our basic approach is to ensure those that need it most get it first.


    Those who will benefit most from immunization and those who care for them include:
    • People under 65 with chronic health conditions
    • Pregnant women
    • Children 6 months to less than 5 years of age
    • People living in remote and isolated settings or communities
    • Health care workers involved in pandemic response or the delivery of essential health care services
    • Household contacts and care providers of persons at high risk who cannot be immunized or may not respond to vaccines
    • Populations otherwise identified as high risk
    Others who would benefit from immunization include:
    • Children 5 to 18 years of age
    • First responders
    • Poultry and swine workers
    • Adults 19 to 64 years of age
    • Adults 65 and older
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 27-10-2009 at 04:57 PM.

  7. #107

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    Here is the breakdown for ALL the groups and their rational.

    Q3. What is the rationale for the primary groups?
    People under 65 with chronic conditions: This group is at higher risk of complications. When evaluating the Canadian situation, it was observed that immunizing this group early would have the biggest impact on minimizing severe illness and death, even more so than those groups with a higher rate of infection, like school children.
    Pregnant women: Pregnant women are at highest risk for severe disease if they do contract the virus. Additionally maternal immunization while pregnant may help to protect the infant after birth.
    Children six months to less than five years of age: This group captures all pre-school age children who have a higher risk of severe disease than other children. Healthy children between six and 23 months of age are at particular risk of severe disease and hospitalization and are the primary focus of this target group. Healthy children aged two and less than five years of age are at higher risk of severe disease and hospitalization than older children.
    Persons residing in remote and isolated settings or communities: People living in remote and isolated communities have limited access to medical care, so it is important to take all available measures to prevent illness. Immunizing these whole communities also creates the potential for developing mass immunity, which means once a significant proportion of the population is immunized, their immunity will protect the rest of the community. Additionally, given the high concentration of persons with chronic conditions in some remote Aboriginal Communities, priority immunization in these communities will help to lessen the risk of severe disease and deaths.
    Health care workers involved in pandemic response or the delivery of essential health care services: Society has a responsibility to protect health care workers that will be exposed to the H1N1 virus in the course of their daily work. This also helps prevent the virus spreading to vulnerable patients. Protecting health care workers involved in the delivery of essential health services, from hospitals to laboratories, to pharmacies to those involved in vaccine production, helps protect essential health infrastructure.
    Household contacts and care providers of persons at high risk who cannot be immunized or may not respond to vaccines: Some high-risk groups, like children under six months and those with weakened immune systems, cannot be immunized, so those around them should be immunized to reduce the risk of spreading the virus to these groups.
    Populations otherwise identified as high risk: As the delivery of vaccines is a provincial/territorial responsibility, jurisdictions may identify other groups as priority recipients for the vaccine based on local conditions and disease spread.
    Q4. What is the rationale for the other groups?

    Children 5 to 18 years of age: Flu outbreaks are most common in school aged children. Although they are not at a high risk of severe disease or death, immunizing school aged children could contribute to reducing the spread of the virus to other more vulnerable groups.
    First responders: Police and firefighters often respond to medical emergencies alongside healthcare workers and should also be offered protection as their jobs expose them to a risk of transmission.
    Poultry and swine workers: Immunizing this group can help to protect against re-assortment of the flu virus -- this can occur when people with the H1N1 flu mix with sick animals, which could lead to co-infection with both human and animal flu viruses. This could result in changes in the H1N1 flu virus that could make it more difficult to prevent and/or treat.
    Adults 19 to 64 years of age: As compared to adults over 65, this group has an increased rate of infection and a higher risk of severe outcomes.
    Adults 65 and older: Immunization is one of the most effective ways to protect all members of our communities. Although healthy adults 65 and older are less likely to contract the virus, by encouraging all age groups to be immunized, we can reduce the chance of exposing vulnerable populations to the virus.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    From http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...g_h1n1-eng.php

    Adults 19 to 64 years of age: As compared to adults over 65, this group has an increased rate of infection and a higher risk of severe outcomes.
    And yet it is not SO sever that it is placed in the High Risk section.

    Ok.. I think I made my point.

  9. #109

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    No, after all of that you haven't convinced anyone that you are making a wise decision by avoiding the shot.

  10. #110

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    ^ that was not my goal.. I simply said that I am not part of the HIGH RISK group..
    which you all retorted to with bad/misleading INFO.

    As a healthy 30y/o I am not part of the HIGH RISK group.. as for getting the jab or not, thats my choice and one I am freely exercising.

    As Rizo from grease said "There are worse things I could do!"

  11. #111

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    ^You are in a high risk group in terms of death, but it seems that hospitalization is a bigger issue for the other groups. At the end of the day though, nobody really cares that much when adults in 20s, 30's, or 40's die (aside from relatives / friends), but a child (like the Ontario hockey kid) is heart wrenching.

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    As a healthy 30y/o I am not part of the HIGH RISK group..
    Not according to the definition that you choose to follow... but you are in a high risk group in terms of death from an H1N1 infection no matter how you spin it

    No bad/misleading info from me.

    If you just go by hospitalization as your endpoint, then I suppose you wouldn't be in a high-risk group. But if mortality (death) is the endpoint, then you would be in the high-risk group.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 27-10-2009 at 06:03 PM.

  13. #113
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    I'm getting the shot as soon as I can. I think it's irresponsible not to. Maybe even stupid. I don't want to get sick and die, and I don't want to be responsible for other people getting sick and dying.

    I'm not a medical professional. I have more faith in what I'm hearing from medical professionals (like my niece, the nurse) than from anonymous internet speculators. This isn't a game, or politics.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  14. #114

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    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
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  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    I take this into account:

    “In 1736 I lost one of my Sons a fine boy of 4 years old, by the Small Pox…I long regretted bitterly and I still regret that I had not given it to him by inoculation; This I mention for the Sake of Parents, who omit that Operation on the Supposition that they should never forgive themselves if a Child died under it; my example showing that the Regret may be the same either way, and that therefore the safer should be chosen.”

    - Benjamin Franklin (Autobiography)

  16. #116

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    Seasonal flue kills 250,000 to 500,000 people a year.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en/

    H1N1 has killed 5000 people since April (as of 4 days ago)
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...dE-WAD9BGT8VO0

    I have no doubt that H1N1 is affecting young healthy people more than the seasonal flu, but it is easy to see why people see this as fear mongering.

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Seasonal flue kills 250,000 to 500,000 people a year.
    http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs211/en/

    H1N1 has killed 5000 people since April (as of 4 days ago)
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...dE-WAD9BGT8VO0

    I have no doubt that H1N1 is affecting young healthy people more than the seasonal flu, but it is easy to see why people see this as fear mongering.
    Maybe the danger is being exaggerated. I don't know. It's hard to say, because we really haven't seen the H1N1 virus anywhere near it's peak yet. It's reportedly the second wave that is the most deadly, like in 1918.

    "Most deaths associated with influenza in industrialized countries occur among people age 65 or older".

    I suspect that's an additional issue. I'd bet many of the deaths from seasonal flu were in people who may have had other conditions, and the flu pushed then over the edge. This flu can kill otherwise perfectly healthy people.

    Weighing the risks, only a fool (or someone with a real medical reason) wouldn't get the vaccine. But there's no shortage of fools, apparently.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.

  19. #119
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    Some facts and information from The Public Health Agency of Canada.

    "What you need to know before receiving the H1N1 Flu Vaccine"
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  20. #120

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    From reading that, and some research of my own through the WHO and such, it seems like I'm one of the people who generally has a reaction on the unhappy side of things (every single time I've gotten a flu shot I've had a mix of the 1-10% and 0.1%-1% reactions listed in Jimbo's link for 3-4 days).

    I registered with work for antivirals and we've got a remarkably proactive and understanding plan in place in the event the sky DOES fall.

    Given that the soonest I could have been vaccinated was 2 days ago and my largest opportunity to get sick is this upcoming Saturday (5 hours+ of photographing Halloween drunken revelry), I'd not have had the 10 days to develop antibodies anyways.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.
    Fact: More people died from the Swine Flu shot in 1976 then of the actual Swine Flu itself. Take that into account
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  22. #122
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    ^ If it's true, that's pretty interesting.

    The irony is kinda funny - except of course for those whose loved ones perished, but interesting nevertheless.

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.
    Fact: More people died from the Swine Flu shot in 1976 then of the actual Swine Flu itself. Take that into account
    I truly doubt it. Even if that was the case, it might speak to the effectiveness of the flu shot.

    Unless you are allergic or have some other medical condition precluding you from safely receiving the shot, the risk of dying from the flu shot is minimal compared to the risk of dying from the flu.

    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    In this case that's the wisest course of action to be sure.

    However Top_Dawg would caution anybody to never to put their unconditional faith in anyone, especially public officials. Out of all the capital they invest in a given initiative, invariably it is their self-interest that remains the chief motivator.

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    In this case that's the wisest course of action to be sure.

    However Top_Dawg would caution anybody to never to put their unconditional faith in anyone, especially public officials. Out of all the capital they invest in a given initiative, invariably it is their self-interest that remains the chief motivator.
    bingo!

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    ^ If it's true, that's pretty interesting.

    The irony is kinda funny - except of course for those whose loved ones perished, but interesting nevertheless.
    It doesn't take in to account how many were saved because they were vaccinated. It's a completely unfair statistical comparison.

  27. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.
    Fact: More people died from the Swine Flu shot in 1976 then of the actual Swine Flu itself. Take that into account
    I truly doubt it. Even if that was the case, it might speak to the effectiveness of the flu shot.

    Unless you are allergic or have some other medical condition precluding you from safely receiving the shot, the risk of dying from the flu shot is minimal compared to the risk of dying from the flu.

    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    One death from swine flu, at least 25 from the vaccine:

    In February 1976, an outbreak of swine flu struck Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey, killing a 19-year-old private and infecting hundreds of soldiers. Concerned that the U.S. was on the verge of a devastating epidemic, President Gerald Ford ordered a nationwide vaccination program at a cost of $135 million (some $500 million in today's money). Within weeks, reports surfaced of people developing Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing nerve disease that can be caused by the vaccine. By April, more than 30 people had died of the condition. Facing protests, federal officials abruptly canceled the program on Dec. 16. The epidemic failed to materialize.

    http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...894129,00.html

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    none of these "stats" take in account the people killed on the way to the shot shop or while on their phone / bberry extolling their decision to get / not get the shot
    Blah, Blah Blah
    Lets close this and move on

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    That Vaccine is the method the NWo uses to kill off the POP ! Less people = easier to control!

    Teh truth is out there!!! DOnt get the shot! Its deadly!

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.
    Fact: More people died from the Swine Flu shot in 1976 then of the actual Swine Flu itself. Take that into account
    I truly doubt it. Even if that was the case, it might speak to the effectiveness of the flu shot.

    Unless you are allergic or have some other medical condition precluding you from safely receiving the shot, the risk of dying from the flu shot is minimal compared to the risk of dying from the flu.

    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    One death from swine flu, at least 25 from the vaccine:

    In February 1976, an outbreak of swine flu struck Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey, killing a 19-year-old private and infecting hundreds of soldiers. Concerned that the U.S. was on the verge of a devastating epidemic, President Gerald Ford ordered a nationwide vaccination program at a cost of $135 million (some $500 million in today's money). Within weeks, reports surfaced of people developing Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing nerve disease that can be caused by the vaccine. By April, more than 30 people had died of the condition. Facing protests, federal officials abruptly canceled the program on Dec. 16. The epidemic failed to materialize.

    http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...894129,00.html
    Did you take the time to read over the link I posted above? While, as Top_Dawg points out, it's a bad idea to put blind faith into the "authorities" for a number of reasons, this issue has been discussed and considered. It's not nearly as cut-and-dried as you seem to think. It's not as if people were dying left, right, and centre. In fact I'd never heard of this, and I was around during that period.

    But go ahead and believe whatever you want to. We've had a confirmed case in our building at work already, and a co-worker's son, who is very ill, has had three confirmed cases at his school here in Edmonton. I'm going to get the shot, and I hope you do to.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcUQ...eature=related

    "Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so."
    -Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society p50, 1953

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    Why the swine flu vaccine doesn't add up

    So why is the justification for the swine flu so flimsy? It all comes down to these four crucial reasons being pushed by the vaccine industry... but as you'll see below, each of these five reasons is demonstrably false!

    Reason #1) The H1N1 swine flu pandemic is dangerous and deadly!

    Why it's flimsy: While the infection rate of H1N1 is currently high, the fatality rate is remarkably low. In fact, it's no higher than a normal, seasonal flu.

    Reason #2) The vaccine protects you from the virus!

    Why it's flimsy: There is absolutely no scientific evidence demonstrating that the swine flu vaccine offers real-world protection against the circulating H1N1 virus. While there is evidence showing that it produces antibodies, as people who have studied vaccine effectiveness already know, the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.

    Reason #3) The vaccine is perfectly safe, even for kids!

    Why it's flimsy: This reason is truly laughable. None of these vaccines have been properly safety tested by the FDA or the drug companies. They were approved by the FDA with a waiver, utterly bypassing the normal process of long-term safety testing that the public expects the FDA to enforce. In fact, according to attorney Jim Turner, the FDA's baseless approval of these swine flu vaccines is a violation of federal law. (http://www.naturalnews.com/027205_v...)

    Reason #4) There's nothing else you can do to protect yourself from the swine flu (therefore you must take the vaccine shot).

    Why it's flimsy: This reason is an outright lie. In order to sell more vaccines, the pharmaceutical industry (and all its bureaucratic cohorts at the CDC and WHO) are intentionally keeping people ignorant of far safer and more effective options such as vitamin D and anti-viral herbal remedies.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/026717_sw...u_vaccine.html

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  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    And you and your guns are fundamentally wrong.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/10/us...n-smoking.html

    Yes, it's American, and yes it's 5.5 years old. But if being obese wasn't unhealthy why does it have a death rate?
    It's not just the obese that have a death rate. We all have a death rate.
    On another note the Canadian Government has stated on this web site and on it's mail out that severe obesity gives you a higher rist of getting H1N1. Now, that is one I cannot figure out?
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...onique-eng.php
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  35. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    What about everyone who dropped dead from the 1976 Swine Flu shot? And the thousands more left with life changing disabilities. Do any of you take this into account when making your decision?
    No, I just take facts into account.
    Fact: More people died from the Swine Flu shot in 1976 then of the actual Swine Flu itself. Take that into account
    I truly doubt it. Even if that was the case, it might speak to the effectiveness of the flu shot.

    Unless you are allergic or have some other medical condition precluding you from safely receiving the shot, the risk of dying from the flu shot is minimal compared to the risk of dying from the flu.

    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    One death from swine flu, at least 25 from the vaccine:

    In February 1976, an outbreak of swine flu struck Fort Dix Army base in New Jersey, killing a 19-year-old private and infecting hundreds of soldiers. Concerned that the U.S. was on the verge of a devastating epidemic, President Gerald Ford ordered a nationwide vaccination program at a cost of $135 million (some $500 million in today's money). Within weeks, reports surfaced of people developing Guillain-Barré syndrome, a paralyzing nerve disease that can be caused by the vaccine. By April, more than 30 people had died of the condition. Facing protests, federal officials abruptly canceled the program on Dec. 16. The epidemic failed to materialize.

    http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...894129,00.html
    Did you take the time to read over the link I posted above? While, as Top_Dawg points out, it's a bad idea to put blind faith into the "authorities" for a number of reasons, this issue has been discussed and considered. It's not nearly as cut-and-dried as you seem to think. It's not as if people were dying left, right, and centre. In fact I'd never heard of this, and I was around during that period.

    But go ahead and believe whatever you want to. We've had a confirmed case in our building at work already, and a co-worker's son, who is very ill, has had three confirmed cases at his school here in Edmonton. I'm going to get the shot, and I hope you do to.
    I did read the link, thanks for the info. The reason I posted the link about the 1976 vaccine is because you decided it was not true without looking into it. I realize that it didn't kill massive amount of people, just like the swine flu today.

    I have not told anyone to avoid the shot, people have to look at the info and make there own decision. Hope your friends kid gets well soon, I remember getting the flu once or twice a year when I was a kid and it's not fun.

  36. #136

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    I have a friend who is very sick from the H1N1 flu. The symptoms came on very fast.
    As flu goes she said it is by far the worst she has had. It is day three for her and she is still feeling lousy.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Why it's flimsy: This reason is an outright lie. In order to sell more vaccines, the pharmaceutical industry (and all its bureaucratic cohorts at the CDC and WHO) are intentionally keeping people ignorant of far safer and more effective options such as vitamin D and anti-viral herbal remedies.

    http://www.naturalnews.com/026717_sw...u_vaccine.html

    Well, if this info is all from the great, reliable, non-biased "natural news", then it MUST be true!

    Seriously, how much do these naturalists sell their herbal anti-viral remedies for? Hmmm? It isn't free. The natural supplement industry is a multi-billion dollar industry who just wants our buck, too. I said in a post on the last page that people will say anything to make a buck. Clearly, this includes advocates and sponsors of the "Natural News".

    This last part that I bolded just proves that they are trying to dissuade people from getting the vaccine so that they get sick and have to take more herbal remedies and supplements. And I don't see them publishing any of their side effects. Why not? Why don't they allow their supplements to be tested under the same scrutiny that pharmaceutical companies have to? What are the herbal manufacturers afraid of? What is their agenda? What are they hiding?
    Last edited by MrOilers; 28-10-2009 at 09:54 PM.

  38. #138

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    The natural health business is huge but I would not trust it to heal a darn thing.
    I would go for a pharmaceutical cure any day. It will not only have the ingredients to cure it will have the proper additives that the active ingredient needs to do it's job.
    You may come back with the logic that the drug companies make millions in profits but a lot of this profit goes towards research. What does the natural health business do to further research on their products. I should imagine it is in the range of ZERO
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  39. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Call me crazy, but, personally, I'm putting my faith in the Public Health Agency of Canada and every chief medical officer from every province and territory across the country, rather than in some guy posting his opinion on a web forum.

    In this case that's the wisest course of action to be sure.

    However Top_Dawg would caution anybody to never to put their unconditional faith in anyone, especially public officials. Out of all the capital they invest in a given initiative, invariably it is their self-interest that remains the chief motivator.
    You've obviously never worked in any sort of public health capacity.
    Edit: I'll leave my statement above, but I'll also apologize Top_Dawg - you didn't say public health officials, you said public officials.
    Last edited by Chump; 28-10-2009 at 11:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBcUQ...eature=related

    "Diet, injections, and injunctions will combine, from a very early age, to produce the sort of character and the sort of beliefs that the authorities consider desirable, and any serious criticism of the powers that be will become psychologically impossible. Even if all are miserable, all will believe themselves happy, because the government will tell them that they are so."
    -Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society p50, 1953
    Sure, lets play the quote game

    "I think there is no sense in forming an opinion when there is no evidence to form it on. If you build a person without any bones in him he may look fair enough to the eye, but he will be limber and cannot stand up; and I consider that evidence is the bones of an opinion."
    Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.
    My God, who writes this stuff? And more importantly, who teaches this stuff?
    Apparently all you need nowadays to be an expert in immunology and public health is knowledge on how to design a spiffy looking web page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.
    My God, who writes this stuff? And more importantly, who teaches this stuff?
    Apparently all you need nowadays to be an expert in immunology and public health is knowledge on how to design a spiffy looking web page.
    Ignorance such as what he demonstrated is the reason why things like Polio and the Measles are making comebacks in even some developed countries. It's a really bizarre sociological phenomenon in my opinion. Vaccines are well proven to significantly reduce human disease and suffering and have been for more than a century, almost entirely eliminating communicable diseases that used to be extremely prevalent. Yet for some reason a small but significant number of people choose to reject established science and spread misinformation or outright falsehoods in some misguided crusade. Like I said, bizarre.

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    ^ science, schmience. I was born a snakehandler, and I'll die a snakehandler.

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    Alas not a exclusive club.

    All of us with a Y-chromosome quickly learn to be expert snake handlers.

  45. #145

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    That quack website that Cardinal Fang linked to illustrates what a double-edged sword the internet is.

  46. #146

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.
    My God, who writes this stuff? And more importantly, who teaches this stuff?
    Apparently all you need nowadays to be an expert in immunology and public health is knowledge on how to design a spiffy looking web page.
    Ignorance such as what he demonstrated is the reason why things like Polio and the Measles are making comebacks in even some developed countries. It's a really bizarre sociological phenomenon in my opinion. Vaccines are well proven to significantly reduce human disease and suffering and have been for more than a century, almost entirely eliminating communicable diseases that used to be extremely prevalent. Yet for some reason a small but significant number of people choose to reject established science and spread misinformation or outright falsehoods in some misguided crusade. Like I said, bizarre.

    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml

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    Top_Dawg iz impressed Hools.

    You seem to be well informed about the nuances of vaccines and more importantly you provide verifiable facts and credible sources for support.

    Top_Dawg knew that some professionals don't whole heartedly endorse vaccinations but now you opened up his eyes as to why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml
    Won't argue with that - but apples and oranges. They are talking about a live attenuated polio vaccine.

    You can't get flu from the flu vaccine (I don't think you are suggesting you can borntohula, I'm just pointing this out). Unfortunately stories like the Polio one will feed H1N1 fears.
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...-mythe-eng.php
    (see Myth # 5)
    Last edited by Chump; 29-10-2009 at 10:56 AM.

  49. #149

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml

    We use inactivated polio (requires refrigeration, more expensive, uses a needle), so there is zero percent chance of this happening here.

    In this part of the world, the "live" polio vaccine is used because of it's cheap cost to deliver (people drink it - no needles or syringes are needed) and its ease of storage (no refrigeration required). This live vaccine does come with a small risk that it can back-mutate into a virulent form of polio, though. People there accept this risk because chances are good you will get "natural" polio, so people still take the vaccine because there is still less risk of getting polio than if you avoid the vaccine.

    However, I think the polio outbreak is due to something else...

    Nigeria is an awful place for medicine because you cannot trust anything that Nigerian officials say. Nigeria has an extremely conservative fundamentalist Muslim government who have made official statements telling people that the vaccines are white people trying to cause sterility and give them AIDS. Really! They are in fact undermining decades of global health initiatives on outbreak control because of xenophobia, mistrust of Western medicine, and desire to hang on to stone-aged religious beliefs.

  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml
    Won't argue with that - but apples and oranges. They are talking about a live attenuated polio vaccine.

    You can't get flu from the flu vaccine (I don't think you are suggesting you can borntohula, I'm just pointing this out). Unfortunately stories like the Polio one will feed H1N1 fears.
    http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/alert-ale...-mythe-eng.php
    (see Myth # 5)
    Yes, I agree with myth #5. It's interesting in the U.S they are using the attenuated live swine flu mist vaccine, why take the chance?

  51. #151

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    It's interesting in the U.S they are using the attenuated live swine flu mist vaccine, why take the chance?
    That is interesting.

    I think in the not-too-distant future we will all be getting influenza vaccines through inhalation. Most of the recent immunology research on flu vaccines show that if we can induce immunization through inhalation, we will get better protection than through a needle. The reason for that is because when we get naturally infected, the immune cells in our lungs are the first to respond to the virus. Through inoculation, other cells "see" the virus first.

    If we can "activate" these cells in our lungs first through an inhalable vaccine, it will mimic a real flu infection, which in theory would make the vaccine closer to 100% effective (instead of 70-95%, or whatever it may be).

  52. #152

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    This Globe and Mail article is interesting, discussing the different approaches between Canada (uses adjuvant, low key and not a public health crises yet), and US (no ajuvant so less vaccine, and emergency status):

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...rticle1342620/

  53. #153

  54. #154
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    Can somebody explain what the hell this Go-lean-on-Bar syndrome is ?

    Just in a nutshell please. Top_Dawg doesn't want to read a thesis.

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    I was on the fence about getting the H1N1 shot, but the discussion here and information provided have convinced me that it is far more likely to be in my own best interests as well as for those around me that I get it.

    It's discussions like this that are one of the major reasons I love C2E.
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    ^ me too.

    Although just to add to the conspiracy fodder, back in university we tracked the temperatures in the "hightech" containers that Capital Health was using to ship vaccines to other HAs around the province. The vaccines were supposed to stay within a very tight range (2-8C, if I remember correctly).

    The containers were just cardboard boxes with 2" rigid insulation inserts, bubblewrap, and icepacks, and the results were not good. Even worse were the thermal lunchbags nurses were given to use at schools and other remote vaccinization sites.

    I've always hoped that the temperature range either had a big safety factor built into it, or that they've improved their system.

    But when MrOilers is talking about the risk/benefit of a vaccine that doesn't need refrigeration - especially in Africa or the southern US - it's a huge issue.

  57. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Can somebody explain what the hell this Go-lean-on-Bar syndrome is ?
    It is when antibodies (that we produce against an infection) start to inflame our nerves. It can cause short-term numbness and paralysis. Almost all cases disappear in a few weeks or months. Permanent damage is rare.

    In vaccinated persons, there is a 1 in a million chance of Guillian Barre.

    In people who get infected with the flu, there is a 40-70 in a million chance of this happening.

    Some people get Guillian Barre without either.

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    Ok, so you all go get the vaccine. I will not. Then you all will not spread it to me!

    The gov't is now telling us what drugs to take??? WTF??/ Listen to yourselfs!!! Its sheer stupidity!!!!!
    Last edited by Cardinal Fang; 29-10-2009 at 01:54 PM.

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    Thanks Mr. Oil.

    Geez, that almost sounds like mini-meningitis.

    Scary.

    Top_Dawg is getting queasy and now he too will go get jabbed when the line-ups subside a bit.

  60. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Can somebody explain what the hell this Go-lean-on-Bar syndrome is ?

    Just in a nutshell please. Top_Dawg doesn't want to read a thesis.
    This syndrome happens to just about everyone. It can happen at a birth, death, sudden shock (good or bad). It commonly happens Friday night after a hard weeks work. Millions of workers leave their place of work and 'Go-lean-on-Bar' in their favorite watering hole. There can be side effects. One being the 24 hour flu (not to be mistaken for the H1N1 flu). A severe nagging from the other half is also a common aspect of this syndrome. This syndrome is not taken too seriously as the same millions of people do this week after week. No know cure available yet.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    No know cure available yet.


    Top_Dawg has heard some talk of this syndrome.

    Sleep and ingesting copious amounts of water, albeit not a cure, remains the most effective treatment to date.

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    ^ & ^^ Guys, guys.

    It's "Go-lean-on-bar, eh?"

    At least pronounce it right. Sheesh!
    Strathcona City Separatist

  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    Ok, so you all go get the vaccine. I will not. Then you all will not spread it to me!
    You're welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.
    My God, who writes this stuff? And more importantly, who teaches this stuff?
    Apparently all you need nowadays to be an expert in immunology and public health is knowledge on how to design a spiffy looking web page.
    Ignorance such as what he demonstrated is the reason why things like Polio and the Measles are making comebacks in even some developed countries. It's a really bizarre sociological phenomenon in my opinion. Vaccines are well proven to significantly reduce human disease and suffering and have been for more than a century, almost entirely eliminating communicable diseases that used to be extremely prevalent. Yet for some reason a small but significant number of people choose to reject established science and spread misinformation or outright falsehoods in some misguided crusade. Like I said, bizarre.

    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml
    Pulled from your own article:

    The polio problem is just the latest challenge to global health authorities trying to convince wary citizens that vaccines can save them from dreaded disease. For years, myths have abounded about vaccines - that they were the Western world's plan to sterilize Africans or give them AIDS. The sad polio reality fuels misguided fears and underscores the challenges authorities face using a flawed vaccine.

    Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities.

    But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given. In even rarer instances, the virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks.

    The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio.
    The fact remains that Nigeria is FAR better off vaccinating its citizens, even with a less effective one due to cost reasons. There is no reasonable argument against polio vaccination. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang
    Ok, so you all go get the vaccine. I will not. Then you all will not spread it to me!
    IMO children whose parents refuse immunizations should not be allowed in public school systems.

  65. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by raz0469 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chump View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang View Post
    the mere existence of vaccine-induced antibodies doesn't directly translate into functional, real-world immunity! Vaccines are often, in effect, fabricated immunity that often don't provide practical immune defense in the real world.
    My God, who writes this stuff? And more importantly, who teaches this stuff?
    Apparently all you need nowadays to be an expert in immunology and public health is knowledge on how to design a spiffy looking web page.
    Ignorance such as what he demonstrated is the reason why things like Polio and the Measles are making comebacks in even some developed countries. It's a really bizarre sociological phenomenon in my opinion. Vaccines are well proven to significantly reduce human disease and suffering and have been for more than a century, almost entirely eliminating communicable diseases that used to be extremely prevalent. Yet for some reason a small but significant number of people choose to reject established science and spread misinformation or outright falsehoods in some misguided crusade. Like I said, bizarre.

    In some cases, polio is making a comeback because of the vaccine itself:

    (AP) Polio, the dreaded paralyzing disease stamped out in the industrialized world, is spreading in Nigeria. And health officials say in some cases, it's caused by the vaccine used to fight it.

    In July, the World Health Organization issued a warning that this vaccine-spread virus might extend beyond Africa. So far, 124 Nigerian children have been paralyzed this year - about twice those afflicted in 2008.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/...n5242168.shtml
    Pulled from your own article:

    The polio problem is just the latest challenge to global health authorities trying to convince wary citizens that vaccines can save them from dreaded disease. For years, myths have abounded about vaccines - that they were the Western world's plan to sterilize Africans or give them AIDS. The sad polio reality fuels misguided fears and underscores the challenges authorities face using a flawed vaccine.

    Nigeria and most other poor nations use an oral polio vaccine because it's cheaper, easier, and protects entire communities.

    But it is made from a live polio virus - albeit weakened - which carries a small risk of causing polio for every million or so doses given. In even rarer instances, the virus in the vaccine can mutate into a deadlier version that ignites new outbreaks.

    The vaccine used in the United States and other Western nations is given in shots, which use a killed virus that cannot cause polio.
    The fact remains that Nigeria is FAR better off vaccinating its citizens, even with a less effective one due to cost reasons. There is no reasonable argument against polio vaccination. Period.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal Fang
    Ok, so you all go get the vaccine. I will not. Then you all will not spread it to me!
    IMO children whose parents refuse immunizations should not be allowed in public school systems.

    Yes I read the article, I never suggested this was a threat in North America.


    For years, myths have abounded about vaccines - that they were the Western world's plan to sterilize Africans or give them AIDS. The sad polio reality fuels misguided fears and underscores the challenges authorities face using a flawed vaccine.

    I can see how these myths are re-enforced when people are given a vaccine that spreads polio.




  66. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    I can see how these myths are re-enforced when people are given a vaccine that spreads polio.
    The difference is, a chance of infection from the live polio vaccine was never kept a secret.


    Our health system has always been open about every incident involving vaccines. I find it astounding that people think they are keeping secrets when side effects, possible complications, etc. are all explained.

  67. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    I can see how these myths are re-enforced when people are given a vaccine that spreads polio.
    The difference is, a chance of infection from the live polio vaccine was never kept a secret.


    Our health system has always been open about every incident involving vaccines. I find it astounding that people think they are keeping secrets when side effects, possible complications, etc. are all explained.
    I don't think it's a secret, but the general public does not read the insert.


    On a lighter note, Dr. OZ can't convince his wife to get his kids vaccinated:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_rKKawZx0I

    BTW I couldn't care less what DR. Oz has to say but I know that a lot of TV zombies think he is a god.

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    SO Dr. Oz is not really that great a doctor?

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    he sure is in yet another of Oprah's brilliant marketing campaigns !

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    I thought he was as good a doctor as any other?

  71. #171

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    The Who says kids can just get one shot now, and that adjuvanct is safe for pregnant women:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...871/story.html

    Latest stats:

    Between one per cent and 10 per cent of patients who get sick with H1N1 need to be hospitalized, and, of those who are hospitalized, 10 to 25 per cent need to be admitted to an intensive care unit; from two to nine per cent admitted to an ICU will die, WHO says.

  72. #172

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    So that'd be a mortality rate of 0.002% to 0.225% of people who get infected. Not as inflammatory written out that way.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  73. #173

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    ^But those intensive care patients are a lot more expensive than providing people with a vaccine that is proven to be safe. Also, its not just about death, getting seriously sick for no reason when it is preventable, is just plain stupid.

  74. #174

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    Temperatures rise as 'flu rage' explodes across Canada







    By Misty Harris, Canwest News ServiceOctober 30, 2009 2:42 PM




    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...503/story.html
    Dr. Gord Asmundson of the University of Regina: 'It's about a sense of uncertainty combined with the feeling of having no control over a situation. We tend to catastrophize when we're anxious.'

    Photograph by: File, Regina Leader-Post




    As much as flu fears have people pulling away, H1N1 is also uniting Canadians through emotion — specifically, a deeply entrenched sense of frustration that, for many, has mutated into bitterness, anger and even hostility.

    Call it flu rage. Across the country, otherwise mild-mannered Canadians are finding themselves admonishing strangers for open sneezing, losing their cool with queue-jumpers at vaccination clinics, writing angry letters to government and media, and lashing out at friends whose H1N1 opinions differ from their own.

  75. #175

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    ^ Has there been any lashing out here??? Hmmmm I wonder!

  76. #176

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    The article shows the power of mass media propaganda, people are acting as if the flu is the ebola virus.

    They love to show the line ups to give the impression that everyone wants the vaccine as if it's some hot new christmas toy.

    Half the population wants the vaccine and the GOC ordered 50 million doses, everyone that wants it will get their shot.

  77. #177

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    ^Hopefully the spare vaccine can be sent to another country where there are people who want it. I have heard that in many parts of the world, you have to pay to get a shot (like the Phillipines).

  78. #178

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    It goes farther than that.. at work I am to report any people with flu like symptoms...

    People look at you sideways if you cough..

    Some people are out of control and border on hysteria.

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    It goes farther than that.. at work I am to report any people with flu like symptoms...

    People look at you sideways if you cough..

    Some people are out of control and border on hysteria.
    That is pretty sad.

    I have noticed that with every major "crisis" in the last 10 years, the public is the enemy.

    In the US homeland security and certain police departments want people to report on each other for suspicious behavior.

    In chicago if you report someone is cheating on their taxes you get a cut of the proceeds. (they want to implement this)

    In edmonton, city council wanted people to report on others for vehicle idling.

    Now report everyone who sneezes. I am leaving the country next friday for a week, I think. If the propaganda and hysteria continues at this pace they may suspend air travel by next week.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    It goes farther than that.. at work I am to report any people with flu like symptoms...

    People look at you sideways if you cough..

    Some people are out of control and border on hysteria.


    Sweet.

    What a reversal.

    Now old ladies will be cocking their left leg and jus' lettin'em rip to drown out the sound of their coughing.

  81. #181
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    Hell, we've even got a "report post" button here on this forum.

  82. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    It goes farther than that.. at work I am to report any people with flu like symptoms...

    People look at you sideways if you cough..

    Some people are out of control and border on hysteria.
    That is pretty sad.

    I have noticed that with every major "crisis" in the last 10 years, the public is the enemy.

    In the US homeland security and certain police departments want people to report on each other for suspicious behavior.

    In chicago if you report someone is cheating on their taxes you get a cut of the proceeds. (they want to implement this)

    In edmonton, city council wanted people to report on others for vehicle idling.

    Now report everyone who sneezes. I am leaving the country next friday for a week, I think. If the propaganda and hysteria continues at this pace they may suspend air travel by next week.
    I agree. We have become a society where privacy is given up for freedom. 1984 Doublethink if I have ever seen it.
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  83. #183
    Plug C2E into my veins!!!
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    Default Edmonton flu clinics may close next week because of supply shortage

    Edmonton flu clinics may close next week because of supply shortage
    BY JODIE SINNEMA AND RYAN CORMIER, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMOCTOBER 30, 2009COMMENTS (67)

    EDMONTON — Health officials say it’s possible mass clinics in Edmonton and across the province may have to close next week as the province braces for an expected supply shortage.

    In Calgary, news of the pending shortage sent crowds of worried people into the vaccination lineups, forcing nurses to shut down all five of the city’s clinics hours early. While there were ample doses available, nurses couldn’t meet the demand before home time.

    Clinics in Edmonton are expected to be hit hard Saturday as nine-to-fivers finally have time to stand in line to get their needles.

    But Alberta has already used up approximately half of its 600,000 vials of the H1N1 vaccine, and only a fraction of next week’s order of 200,000 more doses is expected to arrive, since the manufacturer has only one production line.

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...686/story.html

  84. #184
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    I had an all too rare (in the next few months) day off yesterday, so I got my H1N1 shot. Westmount Mall location had only 1 hour wait times, but, being none too bright, I went just after noon when some of the Nurses (and others) we're taking well earned breaks, so it took slightly longer.

    People were generally remarkably patient.

    Ironically, the CBC was trying to interview a lady in front of me about the long wait times, and the fact people not in high risk groups (like me, and her hubby who was with her) were adding to the wait times for more deserving people (like her).

    They were having a hard time capturing her complaint because the line was moving too fast, and they were holding everyone up. The funniest moment (for me) was when just as the reporter brought up "waiting in line for up to five hours, or something along that line, a nurse stuck her head out and said it would be about an hour.

    Even the reporter and cameraman were in pretty good spirits, though, and were, on the whole, pretty balanced. I didn't get to see myself on TV. Oh well. Maybe it's better not to be known as the jerk who thinks he's just as important as everyone else.

    Nobody enjoys waiting in line, but I think they are doing a remarkable job. If they had more nurses available to do this, it might make me wonder if we actually did have too many nurses during regular times. Kudos to all of them who took the time to do this work, and all of the other medical professionals as well. People will always complain though, as evidenced by the gentleman in line loudly proclaiming "our ***** Provincial and Federal Governments are doing absolutely nothing to combat a flu pandemic". The irony was not lost on he rest of us.
    Last edited by Jimbo; 31-10-2009 at 09:06 AM.
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  85. #185

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    ^ That is part of the problem, reporters are seeking out stories of people waiting in line.
    I didn't watch the news last night but I'll assume they were not reporting short wait times and calm people in line. The TV reports I have seen generally show a frenzied hypochondriac who thinks their going to die.

  86. #186

    Default HINI Mass Hysteria

    If i were in sociology this would be a great theses on how societies/civilizations are manipulated into hysteria by the media.

    If you think about this objectively, you come to realize the immense power the Media and Governments combined have over our collective thoughts.

    If this story wasn't front page news and first story at six, it would be just another Flu season.

    I am not a conspiracy freak, just looking at it from a sociological perpective.

    My thoughts and prayers to the people who have lost loved ones to this influenza.

  87. #187

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    We have an H1N1 thread which is discussing hysteria, conspiracys, etc.

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...326#post233326

  88. #188

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    IF this conservative government was serious about the appropriate people getting the shots they would have set up mobile clinics in Seniors Centres/Schools etc and handled this in an orgainized and responsible manner. The bureaucrats in alberta have had YEARS to set up proper Standard Operating Procedures for situations such as this, since the SARS scare years ago.
    Time will tell on this new Alberta Government.

  89. #189

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    ^Yes, the NDP government in sasketchewan has done sooooo much better (they are under criticisim that they haven't done as well as Alberta).... or for that matter the socialist governments in other countries... I don't actually think the political stripes of the government has anything to do with it, it is the Health Authorities who are making the decisions, and they are tough decisions. There will be more options to get the vaccine and wider distribution when there is more vaccine. If they distributed it widley right now, it would be a total mess, because everyone would need to guess which places had run out, and which places hadn't.
    Last edited by moahunter; 31-10-2009 at 02:43 PM.

  90. #190

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    The government can't win. If the disease spreads and lots of people fall ill, then the government wasn't prepared enough. If they are prepared and nobody gets ill, the preparation was "overblown". If the amount of preparedness and infections is somewhere in-between, it's still not good enough.

  91. #191
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    Mo:
    For your information, the government of SaskAtchewan is formed by the SaskAtchewan Party, not a SOCIALIST government but a centre-right government.

  92. #192

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    ^whoops I still don't think politics is to blame though, left or right wing, somebody just has to decide how to distribute vaccine, and it seems obvious to me if supply is limited, it makes sense to have fewer sites, so that those who really need it, can go there and que up.
    Last edited by moahunter; 31-10-2009 at 04:09 PM.

  93. #193
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    I'd like to get a shot,however I'll be damned if I am going to stand in the rain and cold for 2 hours just to get inside.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  94. #194

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    Yeah, it would be a bummer to contract pneumonia while waiting in line for an H1N1 shot.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^whoops I still don't think politics is to blame though, left or right wing, somebody just has to decide how to distribute vaccine, and it seems obvious to me if supply is limited, it makes sense to have fewer sites, so that those who really need it, can go there and que up.
    Grass is always greener no matter where you are. Here they're looking at the public line-ups in AB and MB and asking why not here yet? (HCWs and high risk groups only so far).

    Where ya been moa...the NDP lost 2 years ago...

  96. #196
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    Ooops, looks like I will have to answer 'NO' to this thread poll....

    Alberta flu clinics to close until further notice


    By Jamie Hall, edmontonjournal.comOctober 31, 2009 6:01 PM

    EDMONTON — All flu clinics in Alberta will be shut down until further notice, Alberta Health Services authorities said at a press conference on Saturday afternoon.

    Targeted H1N1 vaccinations will resume early next week, but only for those most at risk, including pregnant women, children aged six months to five years, and those under 65 with chronic health conditions.

    More than 300,000 people in Alberta have been vaccinated so far.

    Overwhelmed flu clinics in Edmonton had their lineups shut down around 12:30 p.m. and new arrivals were being turned away.

    Day 6 of free flu shots in the Edmonton area was a decidedly family affair, as people descended on clinics Saturday in what appeared to be record numbers in advance of an anticipated H1N1 vaccine shortage.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt....html#Comments
    From day 1 the handling of the H1N1 vaccination program has been a gong show. I blame the new health super board, Ron Liepert, and Uncle Eddie for this mess. Just imagine if there was a full-blown epidemic? Scary!
    Last edited by North Guy66; 31-10-2009 at 09:11 PM.

  97. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I don't care if you get the shot or not, but for God's sake do you all have to go on the 1st day?!! Why, is it only available for one day? That's the point of my sheeple comment.
    Hey, the way things run in this province, would anyone be surprised if they announced the ran out come day 2?
    Not quite day 2, but perhaps the smartest coment on this thread so far

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    I wonder if the health clinics are still going to offer the regular flu shot to the general public? If they are I will definitely get one.

  99. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Ooops, looks like I will have to answer 'NO' to this thread poll....

    Alberta flu clinics to close until further notice


    By Jamie Hall, edmontonjournal.comOctober 31, 2009 6:01 PM

    EDMONTON — All flu clinics in Alberta will be shut down until further notice, Alberta Health Services authorities said at a press conference on Saturday afternoon.

    Targeted H1N1 vaccinations will resume early next week, but only for those most at risk, including pregnant women, children aged six months to five years, and those under 65 with chronic health conditions.

    More than 300,000 people in Alberta have been vaccinated so far.

    Overwhelmed flu clinics in Edmonton had their lineups shut down around 12:30 p.m. and new arrivals were being turned away.

    Day 6 of free flu shots in the Edmonton area was a decidedly family affair, as people descended on clinics Saturday in what appeared to be record numbers in advance of an anticipated H1N1 vaccine shortage.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt....html#Comments
    From day 1 the handling of the H1N1 vaccination program has been a gong show. I blame the new health super board, Ron Liepert, and Uncle Eddie for this mess. Just imagine if there was a full-blown epidemic? Scary!
    Its interesting that at the Rutherford Clinic I went to for the shots there were twice as many work stations setup and ready for use then there were nurses at stations administering vaccine.

    This I should mention was at primetime between 11-2pm on a weekday and with 3hr lineups being the case.

    I was busy making the inappropriate comment that all those empty stations must be the "self checkout do it yourself" stations..

    In anycase its pretty clear that for some reason finding enough nurses to administer is part of the problem. Although its entirely unacceptable that that should be the reason.

    Clearly prevention, and treating the many, should be the first priority in this.

  100. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I don't care if you get the shot or not, but for God's sake do you all have to go on the 1st day?!! Why, is it only available for one day? That's the point of my sheeple comment.
    Hey, the way things run in this province, would anyone be surprised if they announced the ran out come day 2?
    Not quite day 2, but perhaps the smartest coment on this thread so far
    Perhaps ironically the publics assumption(for good reason) that the province would botch this undoubtedly has contributed to the huge lineups to try to get immunized as quickly as possible due to knowing screwups would occur with delivery.

    Certainly I was mindful of the known and stated supply of vaccine and there being a chance at running out. Or of this not occurring in an orderly or efficient fashion.

    In anycase its November now and well into flu season and 300K Albertans, about 12%, have been vaccinated.

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