View Poll Results: Will you get a swine flu shot?

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Thread: Will you get a swine flu shot?

  1. #301
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    Default Clinics to offer regular seasonal flu vaccinations Monday

    Clinics to offer regular seasonal flu vaccinations Monday
    BY YONATHAN SUMAMO AND ANDREA SANDS, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMNOVEMBER 28, 2009 2:02 PM

    EDMONTON - Starting Monday, Albertans will again be able to get their regular seasonal flu vaccinations at clinics around the province.

    The mass vaccination clinics that have been providing H1N1 vaccinations will also offer seasonal influenza shots starting Monday morning, Alberta Health Services said in a news release Saturday.

    Seven locations in the Edmonton area will be open until the end of December and will immunize all Albertans over the age of six months. Valid identification and an Alberta Health Card are required.

    There are five clinics in Edmonton, at Commonwealth Stadium, Millbourne Mall, Northgate Centre, Rutherford Health Centre and Westmount Centre. Other area clinics are at Grandin Park Plaza in St. Albert and the Strathcona County Health Centre in Sherwood Park.

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...032/story.html

  2. #302
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    This ticks me off... so instead of giving both shots to all the high risk people when they were there, we all have to go back and wait in line-ups again?

    Thankfully I can go to the University Health Centre for my seasonal shot, but what about people who don't have that luxury? This entire vaccine campaign has been a disaster.

  3. #303

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    ^ The first two waves have passed and relatively nothing has happened. The story has been beaten to death in the media.
    Correct,

    Hype and nothing more. Fear sells.
    Well, I am glad I got my shot this year. When another strain of this H1N1
    comes around in the winter of 2010 at least people who have been vaccinated will have some immunities from it.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  4. #304
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    Default Albertans urged to get H1N1 shots

    Albertans urged to get H1N1 shots
    BY JODIE SINNEMA, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMDECEMBER 4, 2009 1:03 PM

    EDMONTON — While more than one million Albertans have now received their H1N1 flu shot, more than 2.5 million have yet to do so, say health officials.

    That leaves 71 per cent of the population at risk of catching the pandemic flu that has killed 60 people in Alberta so far, three more than last reported.

    “It is extremely important that Albertans continue to come forward and be vaccinated. Vaccination remains the best way to protect yourself, your family and your community from the H1N1 virus,” reads a statement from Dr. Gerry Predy, senior medical officer of health for Alberta Health Services. “By having more people vaccinated we reduce the potential impact of the third wave of the virus. Please do your part and get vaccinated.”

    Alberta’s vaccination rate seems to be lagging behind some other Canadian jurisdictions. Saskatchewan is leading the way with an estimated 40 to 50 per cent of the population protected against H1N1 as of Wednesday.

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...169/story.html

  5. #305

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Albertans urged to get H1N1 shots
    BY JODIE SINNEMA, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMDECEMBER 4, 2009 1:03 PM

    EDMONTON — While more than one million Albertans have now received their H1N1 flu shot, more than 2.5 million have yet to do so, say health officials.

    That leaves 71 per cent of the population at risk of catching the pandemic flu that has killed 60 people in Alberta so far, three more than last reported.

    “It is extremely important that Albertans continue to come forward and be vaccinated. Vaccination remains the best way to protect yourself, your family and your community from the H1N1 virus,” reads a statement from Dr. Gerry Predy, senior medical officer of health for Alberta Health Services. “By having more people vaccinated we reduce the potential impact of the third wave of the virus. Please do your part and get vaccinated.”

    Alberta’s vaccination rate seems to be lagging behind some other Canadian jurisdictions. Saskatchewan is leading the way with an estimated 40 to 50 per cent of the population protected against H1N1 as of Wednesday.

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...169/story.html

    Every year the seasonal flu kills 400 people. How come people don't freak out and wait for hours in line for that shot?

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by borntohula View Post
    Every year the seasonal flu kills 400 people. How come people don't freak out and wait for hours in line for that shot?
    Actually, many people do.

  7. #307

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    I got the 2fer the other day, when I took a day off work because I had a bad cold and no pressing work. I went to Stadium and I spent longer in the 15 min after area than I did in the whole rest of the process. Then I spent that day and the next at home getting everything out of the way at once. Cold, flu shot and a bit of mental health day all in one.

  8. #308
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    They are using the "cookie" experiment to sell out of the vaccine so BIG PHARMA makes BIG $$$$$$$

  9. #309

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    1 in 6 Americans has had Swine flu. This is worse than a regular flu season, already the level of hospitalizations in the US match what is normally the case for an entire year:

    CDC: About 1 in 6 Americans have had swine flu
    By MIKE STOBBE (AP) – 1 hour ago

    ATLANTA — Health officials now estimate that swine flu has sickened nearly 50 million Americans and killed nearly 10,000.

    The new estimates mean about 1 in 6 Americans have had the illness. The figures were released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday.

    The CDC also estimates that 200,000 people have been hospitalized since the virus was first identified in April though mid-November. That's the same amount that occurs normally in an entire flu season.
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...1az6wD9CGKOEO0

  10. #310

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    Well, now the Alta government has too much left of the flu shots and pretty soon will have to destroy it. My thinking is, if the H1N1 comes back in the form of a slightly different strain at least people who have been vaccinated will have some immunity to it.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  11. #311

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    Destroy the vaccines? Yikes! Significant story and one I didn't see during my browse of CBC or 630 CHED this afternoon. Where'd you find this info Gemini?

  12. #312

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    ^A few weeks back when people were lining up for the H1N1 they stopped vaccinating for a couple of days so that they could work out a better system so the line ups were not as bad. There was mention that if vaccine sat too long it could no longer be used. I don't know if it has something to do with the ingredience or keeping the vaccine stable in some way or keeping it at a certain temperature. It seems it does not have a very long shelf life.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  13. #313
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    According to Global news yesterday, the left over vaccine will be sold to other countries, presumably by the Federal government.

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Well, now the Alta government has too much left of the flu shots and pretty soon will have to destroy it. My thinking is, if the H1N1 comes back in the form of a slightly different strain at least people who have been vaccinated will have some immunity to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    Destroy the vaccines? Yikes! Significant story and one I didn't see during my browse of CBC or 630 CHED this afternoon. Where'd you find this info Gemini?
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^A few weeks back when people were lining up for the H1N1 they stopped vaccinating for a couple of days so that they could work out a better system so the line ups were not as bad. There was mention that if vaccine sat too long it could no longer be used. I don't know if it has something to do with the ingredience or keeping the vaccine stable in some way or keeping it at a certain temperature. It seems it does not have a very long shelf life.
    according to alberta health:

    "The two components of the shot -- an adjuvant, which helps boost a person's response to the serum, and the virus itself -- are delivered to health-care workers separately and each can survive for months on their own, said Evans.
    As soon as the two are mixed to create the vaccine, the shelf life shortens to just one day."

    the issue you recall was in regard to vaccine that had been mixed but that was not completely used by the end of the day when clinics were being closed to reduce line-ups and wait for additional supplies to be delivered.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  15. #315

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    According to Global news yesterday, the left over vaccine will be sold to other countries, presumably by the Federal government.
    We need those shots for the third wave !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. #316
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    Default H1N1 vaccine moves from clinics to doctor's offices

    H1N1 vaccine moves from clinics to doctor's offices
    Last Updated: Thursday, December 10, 2009 | 7:15 PM MT
    CBC News

    The H1N1 vaccination program will be moving out of public clinics and into pharmacies and doctor's offices over the next few weeks, Alberta Health Services announced Thursday.

    "I think we've committed to maintaining the program until Christmas or until the week of Christmas," said Dr. Gerry Predy, senior medical health officer for AHS.

    "So, we will, in the major centres, have some availability until then."

    The vaccine is already being offered in a few doctor's offices and businesses. That will expand to about 500 physicians across the province, as well as to about 250 pharmacies starting Monday, Predy said.

    "We know that some people have been waiting for their physicians to get the vaccine, so we're hoping that those people will now come forward and get vaccinated."

    Full Story: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...s-closing.html

  17. #317
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    Default Stelmach hasn't gotten his H1N1 sho

    Stelmach hasn't gotten his H1N1 shot
    By JASON FEKETE TUE, DEC 15 2009 INSIDE ALBERTA POLITICS

    After months of urging Albertans to get the H1N1 flu shots - and weeks of initial complaining by the public about long lineups in the early going - Premier Ed Stelmach said Tuesday he hasn't yet received his H1N1 vaccination, instead opting for the seasonal flu shot.

    Many provincial politicians have indicated they would wait until most of the general public was inoculated before getting the shot. While answering the public's questions during his online Ask Premier Ed segment - which has Stelmach responding to questions on various topics each day this week - the premier said he's received the seasonal flu shot but hasn't been inoculated for the swine flu.

    A question from Twitter asked Stelmach: When did you get your H1N1 shot, before or after the debacle with the clinics?

    Full Story: http://communities.canada.com/calgar...h1n1-shot.aspx

  18. #318
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    Default Albertans urged to get H1N1 shots

    Albertans urged to get H1N1 shots
    BY DARCY HENTON, EDMONTONJOURNAL.COMDECEMBER 21, 2009

    EDMONTON — Alberta’s senior medical health officer urges Albertans to get vaccinated against the H1N1 virus now before the next wave — expected after Christmas — hits the province.

    Dr. Gerry Predy says about 1.2 million Albertans have been vaccinated so far — far short of the goal of two million.

    He says the death of a young teen in Calgary related to H1N1 caused a spike in that city’s vaccination numbers last week, but Edmonton numbers stayed about the same — at about 2,000 a day.

    “People seem to be stimulated by a single piece of news. They need to understand the risk is out there. The virus is still around the community,” he said.

    “Now is the time to get the shot. You don’t want to wait until it hits harder, which it could do after Christmas.”

    So far 65 Albertans have died from the flu virus.

    Predy warns Albertans that they are at a higher risk of catching this flu than the seasonal flu and the risk of getting seriously ill is also higher.

    Full Story: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/healt...946/story.html

  19. #319
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    Default Alberta resumes H1N1 vaccination clinics

    Alberta resumes H1N1 vaccination clinics
    Last Updated: Monday, January 4, 2010 | 11:43 AM MT
    CBC News

    H1N1 vaccination clinics were scheduled to reopen in Alberta Monday afternoon after closing for the Christmas break.

    In Edmonton, people can get the shot at the Millbourne Mall from 1 p.m. to 8 p.m.

    On Wednesday, the vaccine will also be available at the East Edmonton Health Centre.

    In Calgary, clinics are scheduled to be open 12 to 7 p.m. Monday at Avenida Village, Brentwood Village Mall and EMS Whitehorn.

    The vaccine has also been made available to pharmacies and doctors' offices that requested it. A list of pharmacies can be found on the Alberta Pharmacists Association website.

    Story Found At: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...cs-reopen.html

  20. #320

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    On CTV news tonight they ran a story where Gerry Predy and Stephen Duckett announced that there will be no third wave. The scam has officially come to a close.

  21. #321
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    swine flu shot is not for me , because what if people got swine flu shots then suddenly, there is stronger flu , what people are going to do about it ???

  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    swine flu shot is not for me , because what if people got swine flu shots then suddenly, there is stronger flu , what people are going to do about it ???
    I would suggest you do a bit of reading about vaccinations and flu strains. If another flu came along that was different and stronger, you could also be vaccinated against it.

  23. #323

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    swine flu shot is not for me , because what if people got swine flu shots then suddenly, there is stronger flu , what people are going to do about it ???
    If there is a newer, more dangerous flu emerging, developers will make a new shot for the stronger flu (the shot itself does not need to be "stronger").

    And if you are trying to draw some kind of parallel between bacteria and antibiotic resistance and influenza mutations needing new vaccinations, there is none. A virus such as influenza will mutate into stronger or weaker strains regardless of vaccination rates.

  24. #324
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    This is my first winter ever that I did not get a flu. I had a minor cold for a week, but that's it.

    I think it's because everyone around me did get a H1N1 shot thus they did not pass any viruses to me.

  25. #325
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    ^ If I'm not mistaken, a person can still be a carrier even if they are vaccinated. You might just have been lucky.
    Strathcona City Separatist

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    With some viruses a person can be a carrier (E.g. Hepatitis B), but one cannot be a carrier of influenza.

  27. #327

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    I think it's because everyone around me did get a H1N1 shot thus they did not pass any viruses to me.
    That is possible. It's a phenomenon that immunologists call "herd immunity".

  28. #328

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    The annual flu shots will be rolled out on October 15th. I, for one, think these clinics are worth while. Now they are letting kids between 5 to 17 get a 'puffer' shot. They spray the shot in the nose. I think these clinics should go to the schools and administer the shots there if the parents give permission. Now I know some people who never get flu shots, don't believe in them. My take is that these shots do work.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  29. #329

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now I know some people who never get flu shots, don't believe in them. My take is that these shots do work.
    Since I turned 18 I havent gotten any flu shots. I would say my health is improved. Wether this is true or not, Im not sure. But I was often sick every winter as a kid with some sort of flu virus.

    Havent had a sick day in 5 years without the shot (knock on wood)
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  30. #330

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now they are letting kids between 5 to 17 get a 'puffer' shot. They spray the shot in the nose.
    Theoretically, these should work better (i.e. boost immunity against influenza more reliably) than the injectable version of the immunization, because the antigens in the inhalable vaccine excite the white blood cells in your respiratory mucous membranes first. In other words, the vaccine stimulates the same immune cells through the same route as the actual virus does.

    Kind of like how oral polio vaccines are so effective at generating immunity (polio is contracted by swallowing the virus).

  31. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now they are letting kids between 5 to 17 get a 'puffer' shot. They spray the shot in the nose.
    Theoretically, these should work better (i.e. boost immunity against influenza more reliably) than the injectable version of the immunization, because the antigens in the inhalable vaccine excite the white blood cells in your respiratory mucous membranes first. In other words, the vaccine stimulates the same immune cells through the same route as the actual virus does.

    Kind of like how oral polio vaccines are so effective at generating immunity (polio is contracted by swallowing the virus).
    Initial research has shown that the nasal spray influenza vaccine is less effective than the injected one. Given that your body turns over your blood around once every minute (an individual blood cell will cycle through the heart once every minute or so) it doesn't really matter where they encounter the vaccine as long is effectively enters the blood.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influen...to_nasal_spray
    http://phys.org/news172947930.html
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/health/03flu.html

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  32. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Given that your body turns over your blood around once every minute (an individual blood cell will cycle through the heart once every minute or so) it doesn't really matter where they encounter the vaccine as long is effectively enters the blood.

    We have resident white blood cells in mucous membranes that detect inhalable antigens in the air we breathe, and we have B cells that secrete IgA antibodies with our mucous secretions (instead of the IgG antibodies mostly found in our blood). We also have a similar system (with dedicated lymphoid tissues) in our GI tract, which specialize in responding to swallowed pathogens.

    Like I said, theoretically, an inhalable vaccine *should* work a bit better than an injectable one, as inhalation mimics the actual infection process (i.e. respiratory white blood cells stimulated and responding first to both the vaccine, and to the real virus). The fact that it doesn't work out that way in reality is interesting.

    But, as always seems the case with biological systems, things work differently in practice than in theory (or in a test tube or animal tests).

  33. #333
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    Interesting. Do you have some references for that? My understanding was that white blood cells (of which B cells are a subset) remain in the circulatory system. IgA is produced through an interaction between specific white blood cells in capillaries and epithelial cells in the membrane. I've never heard of white blood cells leaving the circulatory system and remaining in a particular part of the body.

    Now my medical knowledge is mostly recreational so I don't assume I've got it right so I would like to read more on it.

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  34. #334

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I've never heard of white blood cells leaving the circulatory system and remaining in a particular part of the body.
    Antibodies (which are proteins) produced for our blood remain primarily in the circulatory system. But our white blood cells largely protect our bodies outside of the circulatory system in places like lymphoid tissues, lymphatic system, and the interstitial spaces between cells.

    Monocytes are a type of white blood cell that are produced in the bone marrow, but then leave the blood and make their home in other tissues, before growing into mature into macrophages or dendritic cells. Macrophages and dendritic cells consume pathogenic material and present antigens (work like an interface) to our B and T cells (this usually happens in the lymph nodes, where dendritic cells eventually migrate to). We have respiratory dendritic cells lining our lungs that "report" their findings to B and T cells in lymph nodes near our lungs. These are the specific cells that will first respond to influenza and other respiratory infections. And like I said, it seems like common sense (to me, anyway) that a vaccine that stimulates these cells should offer better protection than stimulating immune cells in a muscle in an arm. I just find it interesting that the inhalabll vaccine performs worse!

    I have taken several advanced immunology classes while in university, and probably the #1 thing I learned in them is that the immune system has been criminally under-studied, and we really don't know enough about it.
    Last edited by MrOilers; 04-10-2012 at 03:54 PM.

  35. #335
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    Thanks.

    I think with any complex system the concept of 'common sense' breaks down fairly quickly.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  36. #336

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    It's been said that only one in nine Albertan's took advantage of getting the flu shot this year. Do you think that the message is not getting out about these flu shots or is it that people just can't be bothered to get them. Now that some hospitals have had to cancel surgeries as there are beds being taken up by people with the flu do you think a greater awareness of what these flu shots do is warranted.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  37. #337

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    Erm this isnt the swine flu that's going around this is just the normal flu.

  38. #338

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    The flu shot is a waste of time. It's like fighting fire with fire. I'm going to inject myself with the flu so I can get sick with the flu, so I don't get sick later with the flu?

    PASS.

  39. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    It's been said that only one in nine Albertan's took advantage of getting the flu shot this year. Do you think that the message is not getting out about these flu shots or is it that people just can't be bothered to get them. Now that some hospitals have had to cancel surgeries as there are beds being taken up by people with the flu do you think a greater awareness of what these flu shots do is warranted.
    I think there's plenty of awareness already. A lot of the low take up rate on this is more likely down to the it-won't-happen-to-me angle. We'll see, I guess.
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  40. #340

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I'm going to inject myself with the flu so I can get sick with the flu, so I don't get sick later with the flu?
    "Mr. Science", ladies and gentlemen.

  41. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    The flu shot is a waste of time. It's like fighting fire with fire. I'm going to inject myself with the flu so I can get sick with the flu, so I don't get sick later with the flu?

    PASS.
    So you disagree with the science behind vaccination and our understanding of how human the immune system works? If so, I'm curious as to what whether that's based on your own research or someone else's. If the latter, I'm interested in the citations.

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  42. #342
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    I never get the vaccine and never get sick. I don't really believe in getting one unless you are young, old or have a weaker immune system. Seems the people I know that get the vaccine are always sick lol.

  43. #343
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    The flu shot is based on about 4 strains that they estimate will hit over the next season. It takes a few months to produce that quantity of vaccines. If they are lucky all 4 strains occur and the flu shot works wonderfully. If they unlucky none of the predicted strains occur and the flu shot is ineffective, however statistically the efficacy is around 67%.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine

  44. #344

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I never get the vaccine and never get sick. I don't really believe in getting one unless you are young, old or have a weaker immune system. Seems the people I know that get the vaccine are always sick lol.
    This is a textbook example of "confirmation bias".


    It's everyone's choice whether or not to get a flu shot. But to justify not getting it because you question whether it works is just silly.

  45. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I never get the vaccine and never get sick. I don't really believe in getting one unless you are young, old or have a weaker immune system. Seems the people I know that get the vaccine are always sick lol.
    I love how people extrapolate their individual experience to the entire population.

    Good on you for a great immune system however most people don't have that advantage and even people who usually get mildly sick need to recognize they can still spread the virus. Part of the point of wide scale vaccinations is prevent spread to weaker people. Considering a large number of people die every year from influenza, checking the spread is a good thing.

    As for people getting the vaccine still getting sick, lots of people are unclear on what the vaccine actually protects against and what influenza actually is. The influenza vaccine does not protect against "stomach flu" because it's not influenza. If you're puking your guts out, you don't have influenza. I also know people who have mistaken bad head colds for influenza as well. Influenza is a respiratory disease, it infects your lungs, not your head or your stomach.

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  46. #346

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    Flu strains morph year to year so the powers that be make the vaccine on the premise of what strains may be prevalent any given year. I don't know if the message is not getting through to some people that it is in the best interest of everyone to get the flu shot. A healthy person may ride the flu out but if they past it on to someone with a weaker immune system it could be fatal to them.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  47. #347

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    It doesn't matter how "healthy" your immune system is - if your body is introduced to an infectious dose of the virus, you will be sick as a dog no matter who you are, and if you are able-bodied and have good health, it will still take a good week for your immune system to eradicate the flu virus from your body.

    Only a vaccine (or a previous flu) can prevent an infectious dose of flu virus from making you sick. That's how your immune system works.


    Those with weak immune systems should get the vaccine because they can get life-threatening complications if they get the flu.

  48. #348
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    I had mine on Tuesday. Quick and easy.
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    Sadly I missed mine this year and ended up cancelling two ski trips over Christmas as one of my daughters and I ended up levelled by it. On the up side I managed to lose 5 pounds over Christmas instead of gaining 5 pounds over Christmas.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  50. #350
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    Years ago I was advised by my doctor to not get a flu shot.
    It's been several years since I've any type of flu that wasn't of the 26 oz variety!
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 11-01-2013 at 01:15 PM.
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  51. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Years ago I was advised by my doctor to not get a flu shot.
    The more physicians I get to meet and work with, the more I realize they let personal biases get in the way of giving sound medical advice and wise decision-making.

  52. #352
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    Don't get me wrong Paul, I fully understand how and why vaccinations work (I am a chemist) and believe that they are effective for a lot of people, but I am not one of them. I choose not to get the shot and am never sick. I have never missed a day of work in my 17 year career so far (knock on wood), do you think I should still get a vaccination and possibly get sick from it? If it ain't broken, why fix it.

  53. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    do you think I should still get a vaccination and possibly get sick from it? If it ain't broken, why fix it.
    If you don't come into contact with many kids or strangers on a daily basis, you are less likely to catch something from another person, and probably don't need a shot.

    And a shot won't make you sick - that's impossible. But if you got sick after getting a shot it would be because you caught it from someone at the vaccine clinic who had the flu (because people are contageous with the flu the day before they start feeling ill). Ha ha.

  54. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Don't get me wrong Paul, I fully understand how and why vaccinations work (I am a chemist) and believe that they are effective for a lot of people, but I am not one of them. I choose not to get the shot and am never sick. I have never missed a day of work in my 17 year career so far (knock on wood), do you think I should still get a vaccination and possibly get sick from it? If it ain't broken, why fix it.
    It was the statement about which people you thought should get shot that seemed odd. While your immune system is one factor a bigger one is exposure. Anyone who has lots of contact with large numbers of people or has a spouse who does should seriously consider it.

    Even if you haven't had symptoms in years it's important to remember that less than 10% of the population usually gets influenza in a given year. You could easily go a decade without getting it and then get slammed.

    Then there's the issue that you can get influenza, never show symptoms, but still pass it to others. So while you may not be getting sick, you could be passing it around.

    Finally, there is zero chance you can get sick from the vaccine, although, as mentioned above, you might be increasing your exposure by going to clinic.

    Your personal experience is of not getting sick. There's no way to know exactly why that's the case. It could be lack of exposure, good immune system, healthy diet, etc but you can't extrapolate individual experience to the general population.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  55. #355
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    Although I do get the flu, I've never had a flu shot. Don't get as often enough to bother getting a shot. And if I do get it, then I pop some pills and suffer for a couple of weeks if it's bad enough. One thing I've read is that forced air heating blows particles around and makes it easier to catch a cold or flu. Has anyone noticed a difference in health if you've gone from baseboard to forced air heating or vice-versa?

  56. #356

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerryH View Post
    Although I do get the flu, I've never had a flu shot. Don't get as often enough to bother getting a shot. And if I do get it, then I pop some pills and suffer for a couple of weeks if it's bad enough. One thing I've read is that forced air heating blows particles around and makes it easier to catch a cold or flu. Has anyone noticed a difference in health if you've gone from baseboard to forced air heating or vice-versa?
    An interesting question. Two years ago we got a new high efficiency furnace with a much better humidifier than we had before. I haven't been sick since (knock on wood) I usually get the flu shot because I'm not somebody with high immunity.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  57. #357
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    The humidifier should help given that flu transmission is higher in very low humidity. The virus apparently doesn't survive in humid air very well.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  58. #358

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    ^Some thoughts:
    - I'd guess it's a very, very low risk from forced air furnaces.
    - If a virus or bacteria is in your house you're likely exposed to it by contact with other surfaces or individuals.
    - I'd guess that most things settle to the floor pretty close to where they are emitted and then die there.
    - Any carpeting probably traps a lot of dust and other particles. (Any surface for that matter.) Even finished hardwood gets covered in dust so friction and gravity likely keep most things where they fall.
    - Your furnace pulls in air from a fairly narrow area surrounding around cold air intakes and from outside.
    - Your furnace likely has a filter that won't stop everything but it likely catches something that hits the filter material.
    - Most floor vents now blow straight up and not out across the floor where surviving bugs may be laying - and even then, they'd have to be swept upward high enough to get to your nose, hands or mouth. So maybe don't sneeze over floor vents.

  59. #359

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    Calgary cat dies of H1N1 (swine flu) passed from humans. First case recorded in Canada. Now, does this mean humans can now catch H1N1 from cats?

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hool-1.2527610
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  60. #360
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    "Time to End Expensive, Ineffective Forced Flu Shots"

    http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/01/19...ced-Flu-Shots/

    This is a scintillating article

  61. #361

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    "Time to End Expensive, Ineffective Forced Flu Shots"

    http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2016/01/19...ced-Flu-Shots/

    This is a scintillating article
    Good article and good to challenge the dogma.

    A couple points: as wearing seat belts is also big imposition on the population, they likely do save a few lives and prevent even more injuries. I would guess that some prevention creates massive cost savings and the prevention of the loss of lives of innocent victims (bystanders, by-sitters, etc.). Measuring just deaths likely misses all the heart damage, etc that is caused by getting very ill.

    This thinking also fails to address (almost literally) what causes the poor targeting. It's the long lead time required to develop vaccines. That is changing with new technologies. In a couple years they may have very fast turnaround times for vaccines. So the efficacy of future vaccines coming from new products and shorter lead times, might improve dramatically in short order.
    Last edited by KC; 27-01-2016 at 08:30 AM.

  62. #362
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    Not sure where they received their effectiveness numbers but is does vary from 10-60% in the past 10 years. It is a guess, but they do try and do a best guess. Influenza viruses do mutate quite rapidly, what might be a very effective vaccine one year can be totally ineffective in a couple years against the same strain.
    http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals...ss-studies.htm

  63. #363
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    Would you buy a car or a television that had a 50 per cent chance of working at best and at worst only seven per cent? Not likely, but that isn't stopping the flu shot industry.
    Disease is not a TV. I will definitely take a seven percent effectiveness in a vaccine vs nothing at all. Personally, after sitting in the Stollery Emerg (child with broken arm) last Thursday I'm more than glad I got the shot this year even it only marginally decreases my chances. Most of the four hour wait we had was due to the massive number ill kids there.

    The workplace requirements are more complicated and at the very least I think if you work in a hospital you should be required to stay home if you're sick (paid).

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  64. #364

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    So, in the Philippines, this one vaccination fear is affecting other vaccinations. Why??? What is the reasoning people are using?????????

    Philippines gripped by dengue vaccine fears - BBC News


    Fears over a dengue vaccine in the Philippines have led to a big drop in immunisation rates for preventable diseases, officials have warned.

    Health Under-Secretary Enrique Domingo said many parents were refusing to get their children vaccinated for polio, chicken pox and tetanus.
    ...

    “Our programmes are suffering... (people) are scared of all vaccines now", he warned.

    Mr Domingo added that vaccination rates for some preventable diseases had dropped as much as 60% in recent years - significantly lower that the nationwide target of 85%.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42929255


    Moreover, how do you fight such thinking and the resulting inaction? And also prepare for the near inevitable consequences?
    Last edited by KC; 03-02-2018 at 09:06 AM.

  65. #365

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    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
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  66. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
    Saying what? That vaccines give people the disease? The processes include a lot of near randomness in terms of exposure and preexisting resistance.

    Maybe you should get the vaccination for the next 3 yrs. and see if both you and your wife then get it.
    Last edited by KC; 03-02-2018 at 10:11 AM.

  67. #367

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
    Stating nothing but anecdote? Why even state it?

    Not getting a flu shot is an irresponsible action for anybody and just contributes to greater risk of pandemics and spread of flu for all.

    Wife and I usually get our shots together. Most couples do. Why do you refuse to?
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-02-2018 at 11:36 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  68. #368
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    Not to mention that the flu and vaccines for it are a very, very different thing than say polio, tetanus, dengue, mumps, measles, rubella, etc. The flu is constantly mutating and changing, and it is not currently possible to make a vaccine with 100% effectiveness. But for the more serious diseases listed, the vaccines are pretty darn close to 100%.

  69. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying


    Saying what? That vaccines give people the disease? The processes include a lot of near randomness in terms of exposure and preexisting resistance.

    Maybe you should get the vaccination for the next 3 yrs. and see if both you and your wife then get it.
    I dont think it does..I think after awhile, the flu shot compromises your immunity..I don't get the shot, and I don't think its right for everyone. I think if you know your own body, how it reacts, then it's up to you..I know so many of our friends that have the darn flu, we dont..I did tell them, start using oil of oregano, immediately you feel any cold or flu like symptoms..I take a lot of vitamin C and echinacea..
    Eat well, lots of green and colorful veggies..it works well for us. Really well.

  70. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying


    Saying what? That vaccines give people the disease? The processes include a lot of near randomness in terms of exposure and preexisting resistance.

    Maybe you should get the vaccination for the next 3 yrs. and see if both you and your wife then get it.
    I dont think it does..I think after awhile, the flu shot compromises your immunity..I don't get the shot, and I don't think its right for everyone. I think if you know your own body, how it reacts, then it's up to you..I know so many of our friends that have the darn flu, we dont..I did tell them, start using oil of oregano, immediately you feel any cold or flu like symptoms..I take a lot of vitamin C and echinacea..
    Eat well, lots of green and colorful veggies..it works well for us. Really well.
    Eating well never seems to hurt. Vaccines compromising immunity-haven’t heard any report of that. I imagine getting a strain of the flu and fighting it off would maybe entail a more powerful longer lasting response. ????


    Two studies:

    ‘Serial' flu shots may limit body's ability to fight virus in future: researchers
    Daniel Otis, CTVNews.ca
    Published Saturday, November 5, 2016
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health...hers-1.3147903

    Repeat Flu Shots Offer Lingering Benefits in Elderly: Study
    Published at 7:59 AM EST on Jan 9, 2018
    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/heal...468431363.html
    Last edited by KC; 03-02-2018 at 08:35 PM.

  71. #371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
    Stating nothing but anecdote? Why even state it?

    Not getting a flu shot is an irresponsible action for anybody and just contributes to greater risk of pandemics and spread of flu for all.

    Wife and I usually get our shots together. Most couples do. Why do you refuse to?
    I get the flu shot every year but don't chastise people who don't get it. Most of the flu shots that have been rolled out over the years have never been 100% effective or correct. This years flu shot missed the mark by quite a margin. I got the flu shot this year as usual but there is nothing to say I am immune from the flu strains going around now. Getting a yearly flu shot does not guarantee anything it just might lower your chances of getting the strains in the actual vaccine. You take your chances that other strains don't pop up in the meantime.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  72. #372

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
    Stating nothing but anecdote? Why even state it?

    Not getting a flu shot is an irresponsible action for anybody and just contributes to greater risk of pandemics and spread of flu for all.

    Wife and I usually get our shots together. Most couples do. Why do you refuse to?
    I have all the regular shots for rubella, tetanus, polio, measles etc. that are almost 100%effective and including for hepatitis and shingles even though they are not 100% effective.

    Tell me what is the success rate of the flu shot? 10%???

    Are their complications? Yes

    Is it overall effective. Nope.

    So why should I take it other than to make a pharmaceutical company rich on an ineffective flu shot?
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  73. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying


    Saying what? That vaccines give people the disease? The processes include a lot of near randomness in terms of exposure and preexisting resistance.

    Maybe you should get the vaccination for the next 3 yrs. and see if both you and your wife then get it.
    I dont think it does..I think after awhile, the flu shot compromises your immunity..I don't get the shot, and I don't think its right for everyone. I think if you know your own body, how it reacts, then it's up to you..I know so many of our friends that have the darn flu, we dont..I did tell them, start using oil of oregano, immediately you feel any cold or flu like symptoms..I take a lot of vitamin C and echinacea..
    Eat well, lots of green and colorful veggies..it works well for us. Really well.
    Eating well never seems to hurt. Vaccines compromising immunity-haven’t heard any report of that. I imagine getting a strain of the flu and fighting it off would maybe entail a more powerful longer lasting response. ????


    Two studies:

    ‘Serial' flu shots may limit body's ability to fight virus in future: researchers
    Daniel Otis, CTVNews.ca
    Published Saturday, November 5, 2016
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health...hers-1.3147903

    Repeat Flu Shots Offer Lingering Benefits in Elderly: Study
    Published at 7:59 AM EST on Jan 9, 2018
    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/heal...468431363.html
    Well I'm 66, and I think I've had the flu twice. I'll stick with what I know, that works for me..


    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/serial...hers-1.3147903

  74. #374
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    I'm 65 and work in a call centre. Lots of flu went through there so far. My wife has had i but so far I haven't but there's lots of winter left and I had my shot last November.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  75. #375

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    My wife got the flu shot for the last 3 years. Every year she got the flu each year and just hot over a two week flu.

    I did not get the shot and did not get it for the past 3 years.

    Just saying
    Stating nothing but anecdote? Why even state it?

    Not getting a flu shot is an irresponsible action for anybody and just contributes to greater risk of pandemics and spread of flu for all.

    Wife and I usually get our shots together. Most couples do. Why do you refuse to?
    I have all the regular shots for rubella, tetanus, polio, measles etc. that are almost 100%effective and including for hepatitis and shingles even though they are not 100% effective.

    Tell me what is the success rate of the flu shot? 10%???

    Are their complications? Yes

    Is it overall effective. Nope.

    So why should I take it other than to make a pharmaceutical company rich on an ineffective flu shot?
    You've speciously posted this during a year in which the flu vaccine has had much lower than typical efficacy, to post this. Yet you indicate you never get the flu shot and even in years where the effectiveness has been higher.

    You've also highlighted complications, surmised that your wife who gets them has had the flu and you haven't which is no argument whatsoever. Nor do you seem to comprehend in the least the public health benefit and such things as "herd immunity" that are potential benefits when more people get vaccinated.

    The Flu vaccine is free, is easy to get anywhere, and you're spreading typical misinformation and suggesting its only rolled out so pharmaceutical companies can get rich. In an other topic you'd be telling people to take off their tinfoil hats for such an implied conspiracy view. Yet you're wearing one regarding this topic.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  76. #376

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    The flu shot has NEVER been proven to be very effective.

    Meanwhile, smallpox and polio have been nearly eradicated by safe and effective vaccines. I am in full agreement that such vaccinations are critical to the health of society.

    Are you suggesting that people should be forced to take a questionable flu shot? Is personal choice not allowed?


    Read the CDC statistics.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...ss-studies.htm

    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-02-2018 at 10:13 AM.
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  77. #377

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    Edmonton PRT, ever buy a lottery ticket? Apply for a job? Put on a seat belt?


    The debate really does remind me of the debates before mandatory seat belt legislation.


    Many accidents didn’t result in any significant damage to people so I’d guess they didn’t think the “effectiveness” was very high.

    Effectiveness?

    Airbags muddy the picture.

    Complications?

    The old rear lapbelts crippled a lot of kids.




    June 22, 1987: Albertans prepare for seatbelt law
    It's been 29 years since seatbelts became the law
    John Zazula - CBC News
    June 23, 2016

    “...
    "I don't believe that anybody should tell me what the hell I have to do," Joe Miller said in an interview with CBC's Bill Laing. ...”

    “Some drivers sought exemptions to the law, trying to get doctor's notes saying seatbelts would aggravate existing medical conditions.

    Today, seatbelts are widely known to save lives. Not wearing one will cost you a $155 fine — 29 years ago, it was $25. “



    http://www.cbc.ca/1.3649730
    Your Car's Dangerous Seat - CBS News
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/your-cars-dangerous-seat/
    Last edited by KC; 04-02-2018 at 10:31 AM.

  78. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The flu shot has NEVER been proven to be very effective.

    Meanwhile, smallpox and polio have been nearly eradicated by safe and effective vaccines. I am in full agreement that such vaccinations are critical to the health of society.

    Are you suggesting that people should be forced to take a questionable flu shot? Is personal choice not allowed?


    Read the CDC statistics.
    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professional...ss-studies.htm

    I'm stating that the flu shot itself is not "questionable" as you argue. That is your own opinion. See my response to KC for more.

    You have a very odd notion on what rates of efficacy are considered to be significant, beneficial, or very effective. The benefit obtained from even 40% efficacy is enormous to society in everything from mitigating lost productivity, medical costs, prevention of loss of life, prevention of harm, etc. You're also speciously citing a source that would of course advise you to get the flu shot and with no apparent irony on your part.

    Everybody can choose what they want to. But to refuse to agree to have the flu vaccine, and argue against it impacts OTHERS. It impacts society, it impacts the spread of the same flu's and of course lessens herd immunity for all. In this because of your profound misunderstanding of what benefit is obtained.

    My bet is that one year you really get socked with a serious flu, then you'll be complaining why others don't get their flu shots and why everybody doesn't do their part to take responsibility and get theirs. Or you'll contract a flu at a medical facility while in for something else.


    I do have one question for you. Do you believe health care practitioners should get their flushots?

    Finally, you mention that you got the Shingles Vaccine and yet you do not believe in getting the Flu Vaccine. Is that you being misinformed, or inconsistent.
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-02-2018 at 11:05 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  79. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Edmonton PRT, ever buy a lottery ticket? Apply for a job? Put on a seat belt?


    The debate really does remind me of the debates before mandatory seat belt legislation.


    Many accidents didn’t result in any significant damage to people so I’d guess they didn’t think the “effectiveness” was very high.

    Effectiveness?

    Airbags muddy the picture.

    Complications?

    The old rear lapbelts crippled a lot of kids.




    June 22, 1987: Albertans prepare for seatbelt law
    It's been 29 years since seatbelts became the law
    John Zazula - CBC News
    June 23, 2016

    “...
    "I don't believe that anybody should tell me what the hell I have to do," Joe Miller said in an interview with CBC's Bill Laing. ...”

    “Some drivers sought exemptions to the law, trying to get doctor's notes saying seatbelts would aggravate existing medical conditions.

    Today, seatbelts are widely known to save lives. Not wearing one will cost you a $155 fine — 29 years ago, it was $25. “



    http://www.cbc.ca/1.3649730
    Your Car's Dangerous Seat - CBS News
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/your-cars-dangerous-seat/
    Quick logical response to your analogy. If you applied the CDC graph above and pretended that the rates reflected injuries prevented (and a component of lives saved) from airbags, hypothetically, wouldn't that be more the prescient argument? Your analogy is flawed. In the case of Flu vaccine the cost benefit ratio is very clear. The cost, or harm, is negligible. So that any benefit obtained is positive. So that even in a year of say 40% efficacy that is still resulting in that amount of reduction in instances of the flu. Obviously saved lives as well.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/news/flu-vac...aved-lives.htm
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-02-2018 at 10:54 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  80. #380

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    Counterpoint

    If I get the annual flu shot, am I setting myself up to reduced immunity from new strains?

    'Serial' flu shots may limit body's ability to fight virus in future: researchers
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/serial...hers-1.3147903
    Few debates are as divisive in Canada.

    Every year, those who swear by the influenza vaccine eagerly get jabbed. Others vehemently maintain that flu shots are either useless or do more harm than good. The latter camp, however, may now have some additional ammunition.


    Although doctors maintain that flu shots are life-savers that everyone should receive, some researchers are uncovering hints that "serial vaccination" -- that is, consistently receiving annual flu shots -- may in fact limit one's ability to fight the virus in the future.

    "Nothing surprises me anymore with influenza," Dr. Danuta Skowronski, an epidemiologist at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, told CTV News. "It's such a changeable virus."


    Although flu season typically starts in late November and peaks towards the end of December, influenza cases have already been reported across Canada, with spikes occurring over the past month in southern British Columbia, western Manitoba and southwestern Ontario though numbers remain low.


    New evidence, however, is raising the spectre that the more influenza vaccinations you receive in your lifetime, the less protection you have from the virus in subsequent seasons.


    Skowronski published a study earlier this year showing that people who were vaccinated consecutively in 2012, 2013 and 2014 appeared to have a higher risk of being infected with new strains of the flu.


    "If we're seeing some signals of declining vaccine protection, we want to respond to that -- but we don't want to overreact," Skowronski cautiously says.


    Skowronski's study, however, is one of several that suggest a similar troubling pattern.


    In the aftermath of 2009's H1N1 flu epidemic, the Canadian flu surveillance network reported that Canadians who had received a flu shot in late 2008 were between 1.4 and 2.5 times more likely to contract an H1N1 infection that required medical attention, compared with those who didn't get a shot.


    U.S. doctors still overprescribing drugs
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors...s-antibiotics/

    Billions wasted on drug spending in Canada, research shows
    Hidden camera investigation reveals questionable drug company marketing practices
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/drug-c...nada-1.3927989
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  81. #381

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Counterpoint

    If I get the annual flu shot, am I setting myself up to reduced immunity from new strains?

    'Serial' flu shots may limit body's ability to fight virus in future: researchers
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/serial...hers-1.3147903
    Few debates are as divisive in Canada.

    Every year, those who swear by the influenza vaccine eagerly get jabbed. Others vehemently maintain that flu shots are either useless or do more harm than good. The latter camp, however, may now have some additional ammunition.


    Although doctors maintain that flu shots are life-savers that everyone should receive, some researchers are uncovering hints that "serial vaccination" -- that is, consistently receiving annual flu shots -- may in fact limit one's ability to fight the virus in the future.

    "Nothing surprises me anymore with influenza," Dr. Danuta Skowronski, an epidemiologist at the British Columbia Centre for Disease Control, told CTV News. "It's such a changeable virus."


    Although flu season typically starts in late November and peaks towards the end of December, influenza cases have already been reported across Canada, with spikes occurring over the past month in southern British Columbia, western Manitoba and southwestern Ontario though numbers remain low.


    New evidence, however, is raising the spectre that the more influenza vaccinations you receive in your lifetime, the less protection you have from the virus in subsequent seasons.


    Skowronski published a study earlier this year showing that people who were vaccinated consecutively in 2012, 2013 and 2014 appeared to have a higher risk of being infected with new strains of the flu.


    "If we're seeing some signals of declining vaccine protection, we want to respond to that -- but we don't want to overreact," Skowronski cautiously says.


    Skowronski's study, however, is one of several that suggest a similar troubling pattern.


    In the aftermath of 2009's H1N1 flu epidemic, the Canadian flu surveillance network reported that Canadians who had received a flu shot in late 2008 were between 1.4 and 2.5 times more likely to contract an H1N1 infection that required medical attention, compared with those who didn't get a shot.


    U.S. doctors still overprescribing drugs
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctors...s-antibiotics/

    Billions wasted on drug spending in Canada, research shows
    Hidden camera investigation reveals questionable drug company marketing practices
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/drug-c...nada-1.3927989
    That's your flimsy rationale?

    Even with this taken directly from your first source article;

    "I think it would be premature and possibly even dangerous, frankly, for us to make strong statements in either direction, or a radical policy change, on the basis of these findings," Skowronski says.
    "It would be hazardous for those individuals to stop getting the influenza vaccine on the basis of these early signals."

    Which only serves to confirm that not getting the flushot is due to your opinion, and not via substantiation or recommendation.

    Put on the tin foil hat, you've earned it.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #382

    Default

    You cherry picked the info

    Go back to the highlighted points in my other post from dedicated researchers.

    He even states that "I think it would be premature and possibly even dangerous, frankly, for us to make strong statements in either direction , or a radical policy change, on the basis of these findings,"

    To explain it to you in words that you can understand, he is stating that the jury is still out and more research in needed to confirm if getting flu shots are a good or a bad idea.

    I will wait for more research.

    I love how you state on another thread a minute ago "While I certainly respect anybodies right to make their own decision", I guess that means you only respect the decisions of others as long as they agree with yours.

    While you are at it with your cherry picked hyperbole, I am going to drop off another 1,000 feral cats in your backyard.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 04-02-2018 at 11:45 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  83. #383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You cherry picked the info

    Go back to the highlighted points in my other post from dedicated researchers.

    He even states that "I think it would be premature and possibly even dangerous, frankly, for us to make strong statements in either direction , or a radical policy change, on the basis of these findings,"

    To explain it to you in words that you can understand, he is stating that the jury is still out and more research in needed to confirm if getting flu shots are a good or a bad idea.

    I will wait for more research.

    I love how you state on another thread a minute ago "While I certainly respect anybodies right to make their own decision", I guess that means you only respect the decisions of others as long as they agree with yours.

    While you are at it with your cherry picked hyperbole, I am going to drop off another 1,000 feral cats in your backyard.
    What I've rebutted with, effectively, is that the sources you have cited, whether it be the study, or CDC, would still advise you to get a flushot. Apparently I have to explain that to you. Maybe if you read it slowly..

    How ridiculous of you to leave out the last part of the quote in an confirm your bias against getting the flushot. I'll include it again;
    "It would be hazardous for those individuals to stop getting the influenza vaccine on the basis of these early signals."

    Although I don't think you'll get it this time either.
    Last edited by Replacement; 04-02-2018 at 11:50 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  84. #384

    Default

    You cannot force me to take the flu shot. I will wait until we have facts that it has proven not to damage my health and my immune resistance.

    I will remind you that this year the effectiveness is about 10%

    Let's agree to disagree, OK?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  85. #385

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    You cannot force me to take the flu shot. I will wait until we have facts that it has proven not to damage my health and my immune resistance.

    I will remind you that this year the effectiveness is about 10%

    Let's agree to disagree, OK?
    Nobody is forcing you to do anything. I'm responding to your illogic in the context of an important public health matter that impacts all. In the purview and contextextual times of people increasingly not comprehending the health benefits of influenza immunization and which unfortunately only serves to further the harm that comes to humans from flu's and pandemics.

    ps the facts are already there. You don't comprehend them.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  86. #386

    Default

    That is your opinion only and you illogical arguments don't take into consideration the possible long term side effects of a marginally effective vaccine.

    My opinion will change if you can show that a flu shot is consistently effective.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  87. #387

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    That is your opinion only and you illogical arguments don't take into consideration the possible long term side effects of a marginally effective vaccine.

    My opinion will change if you can show that a flu shot is consistently effective.
    The Flu vaccine saves lives every year. I cited that already. post 379. Additionally it saves lost time, saves health care costs etc. So that if theres 22% less influenza deaths due to influenza vaccine that is an incredible positive regarding the pandemics. Correct? Of course the amount of people saved annually would increase accordingly with increased vaccination rates. A side benefit could also occur, that if vaccination approaches say 90% numbers that the instances in which influenza strains can mutate and become pandemic are further lessened. In essence the refusal to vaccinate perpetuates the public health problem. Not the same as in other epidemics which were close to eradicated but those would not have been close to being eradicated either without uniform acceptance of vaccination.
    indeed current anti Vac sentiments and lobbying are creating significant risk of epidemic return of polio, rubella, etc.

    My definition, or the CDC, or any Public health body would differ from yours in concluding that the Flu Vaccine is consistently beneficial and that it is recommended to get vaccinated. You ignore that at yourself and others peril.

    btw you haven't really rebutted me at all in the exchange or responded to my points or questions.

    But we won't agree on this so I'll move on. I've communicated my points clearly.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  88. #388

    Default

    Most of us got all the measles, mumps etc. vaccinations when we were kids. Even though we got those vaccinations there was still no guarantee you would not get measles etc. The difference was if you had your measles vaccination and got measles it was to a lesser degree because without the vaccination the illness would have been far worse. Another thing is those vaccinations we got when we were young were targeted for those illnesses. Flu shots are best guesses of what strains are going to be coming up in the next flu season. Usually the three strains they think will hit are the ones targeted. These decisions are made months before the flu season. With strains rapidly changing it's a hit and miss affair. We have heard of young people in their prime dying from flu strains but I often wonder if a full autopsy is done to see if there were other undiagnosed problems. The very young have less immunities the very old have more problems.
    People who don't get flu shots and don't get the flu are those with good immune systems. If they don't have a predisposition to getting colds or flu's the decision to not get vaccinated is entirely theirs.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  89. #389

    Default

    Some news:
    US flu outbreak is worst since 2009 swine pandemic - BBC News

    More Americans are seeking medical care for flu than at any time since the "swine" pandemic of nearly a decade ago, say US health officials.

    Thirty-seven children have died and nearly 12,000 patients have been admitted to hospital nationwide.

    The outbreak could surpass 2014-15 when 34 million Americans fell ill, says the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

    In that season, 710,000 people were admitted to hospital and 56,000 died.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42835776

    US teacher dies after opting out of 'costly' flu medicine - BBC News
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43039036

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