Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 101 to 137 of 137

Thread: River Valley Gondola - Bridging the City

  1. #101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    My proposal for a gondola line (click for larger image):



    Pros:
    - Connects Jasper Ave with Whyte Ave
    - Activates Rossdale
    - Greater access to Kinsmen
    - Effective public transport to the Baseball stadium
    - View of the Valley (quasi tourist attraction)
    - No impacts to traffic (no at grade crossings)
    - Connects Whyte to River Valley and connects Jasper to River Valley
    - Gondola Jasper terminus is adjacent to Central station

    Considerations:
    - Proposed alignment does not impact existing infrastructure (no realignment of roads required) (possible utility adjustments required though)
    - The north terminus at 100St can be built upon the existing ETS station grounds
    - Proposed route is roughly 2.55km long
    - Assuming 16km/h operating speed (based off another urban gondola system), it takes 11.5 minutes to go from terminal to terminal including the intermediate stops
    - The pylon towers for support have been placed in areas where the city either owns the land or can easily acquire
    - A gondola will not be closer than 40m to any existing building (in the horizontal plane)
    - South terminal at the proposed future High Level streetcar station expansion, immediately north of Whyte Ave, across the farmers market
    - Possible split line from Rossdale to connect to Univsersity (as per Jaybee's proposal)

    Cons:
    - this is flawless. no cons.
    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Optional extension to Hawrylak Park (which I don't see getting very constant usage in all seasons, but just for kicks.):



    Stations: 5
    Total distance: 4.3 km. (300 metres shorter than the distance of the Sunshine Village Gondola.)

    Serves:
    1. Bay/Enterprise Square Station (and the rest of Downtown)
    2. John Ducey Field (used to be called Telus Field)
    3. Rossdale Powerplant (an excellent location for an Indigeous Museum plus flat-floored concert hall, or my second favourite location for TWOSE relocation)
    4. Kinsmen Sports Centre (my favourite location for indoor velodrome construction, but already hugely popular despite very awkward access by any mode)
    5. University Station (and the rest of the U of A Main Campus)
    6. Hawrelak Park (home of numerous beloved festivals in Summer and Winter, not so much in Spring and Fall.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaerdo View Post
    I would rather have a connection to Whyte than the U of A. The U of A link just duplicates the LRT, so the only benefit is stops at Kinsmen and Rossdale. We need a direct link downtown to whyte.


    To me, Whyte Ave (along with the rest of the City) is about to get much better bus service (I'm expecting a frequent straight-line from Health Sciences). Then it's getting a second station at Bonnie Doon. Then it's getting the Energy Line, from 102 Ave, straight down Whyte, end to end. Meanwhile, Gondola is about Valley bottom, and University-Kinsmen is ready to go right now, with no help from LRT anywhere on the horizon.

    Kinsmen has positively awful access:
    • by car, one has to cross the river twice and make a huge detour every visit -- even with new bridge,no help on the horizon
    • LRT goes nowhere nearby, no planned improvements coming
    • Bus is more awkward than car, only marginal improvements even possible
    • Bikes or walking always entail a huge hill-climb unless you live in Rossdale again, no planned improvements


    Yet huge demand. Their already-huge parking lot is bursting at the seams.

    As B.ike suggested, these aren't necessarily in competition together. We could do a 'fork' at Rossdale towards both End Of Steel and towards Kinsmen (and onward to Whyte and University respectively).

    But the thing for me right now, Rossdale has no need on the horizon. While we wait for Rossdale, University-Kinsmen can be where we prove the concept.
    Last edited by JayBee; 01-03-2016 at 01:07 PM. Reason: adding (not necessarily competing) designs to top of new page
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  2. #102
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,575

    Default

    Are there any examples of this that are successful? The one in London apparently runs at about 10 percent of capacity at a cost of £60b.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  3. #103
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,575

    Default

    A consideration for the route to the UofA and Hawrelak Park: We will never run one of these over and through a residential neighbourhood.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  4. #104

    Default

    Barf. This POS does exactly the same thing LRT is supposed to do, except worse in every way.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  5. #105

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    A consideration for the route to the UofA and Hawrelak Park: We will never run one of these over and through a residential neighbourhood.
    To be clear, I'm not that keen on the Hawrelak link. It would be nice to have for festivals, but I don't think it would be year-round like Kinsmen.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  6. #106

    Default

    Istanbul has two that I know of, having ridden them.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ey%C3%BCp_Gondola
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C3%A7ka_Gondola

    Istanbul's location and tourism aside, for the river valley it is not that outlandish. Happen? I think not.
    Last edited by GenWhy?; 01-03-2016 at 01:28 PM.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  7. #107

    Default

    While the opportunities of potential station is limitless, I'd like to stress, what I've proposed is a line that will have almost no impacts to the existing infrastructure. None of the support pylons are going to required realignment of roads/sidewalks. With that, construction process is much easier and impacts during construction can be mitigated.

    Also, with the amount of apartments/highrise condos, my chosen route avoids flying next to or over any building (who wants a flying pod outside their apartment window/balcony?).

    The route only goes over roadways and parkland. If you start bisecting neighbourhoods, you're bound to get NIMBY.

    The key is to bring people from Churchill/Jasper down to the valley (Rossdale) and over to Whyte. Potential extensions to the line should also follow the same design principles I discussed above...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Barf. This POS does exactly the same thing LRT is supposed to do, except worse in every way.
    Aerial system would cost a lot less. Less construction impacts. No impacts to traffic. Which ways does the LRT excel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Are there any examples of this that are successful? The one in London apparently runs at about 10 percent of capacity at a cost of £60b.
    The Roosevelt Tramway in NYC - the only aerial system in north american - was quite cheap and is arguably successful.

  8. #108
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Barf. This POS does exactly the same thing LRT is supposed to do, except worse in every way.
    I think you mean:

    "This does exactly the same thing LRT is supposed (but fails) to do, except at a fraction of the price, years earlier, and without any negative traffic or land impacts."

    They also exist successfully in:

    - Portland, Oregon

    - Barcelona

    - Caracas

    - New York City

    - Medellin

    - Singapore

    - La Paz

    They are also proposed for Burnaby (to link Simon Fraser) and Austin, Tx.

    But yeah, lets spend the same amount on an escalator to nowhere.
    Last edited by Jaerdo; 01-03-2016 at 02:39 PM.

  9. #109

    Default

    La Paz

    I have suggested this before (2009) and I like it!





    Expanding network (must work or they would not be building more)



    My highlights in Bold
    Metrocable is the first system in the world dedicated to public transport, with a fixed service schedule. Since starting operations in 2004, it carries 30,000 people daily and is operationally integrated into the rest of Medellin's mass transit system, including the Metro.
    As of 2010, the Medellin Metrocable system contained three lines, namely Line K, Line J and Line L (Cable Arvi). Two lines, Line H and line M, are under construction as of 2015. Overall, the system has been received with enthusiasm by the locals.

    Line K
    Line K was the initial line that was built and was first opened in 2004. It is 1.8 km and contains the following four stations: Acevedo, Andalucia, Popular, and Santo Domingo. Construction costs are estimated at $26 million USD.
    Line J
    Soon after officials saw the enormous success of Line K, plans to proceed with another line - Line J - was immediately on the table. It officially opened in 2008. Similar to Line K, it also has four stations: San Javier, Juan XXIII, Vallejuelos and La Aurora. The entire length of Line J runs along 2.7 km of cable.

    Line L
    Line L does not serve communal areas, rather, it is a tourist-oriented line which is connected to Arví Park and is part of a social project to bring retreats and nature to the masses. Passengers must pay an extra fare - 4,000 Colombian Pesos ($2 USD approx.) to ride this line.
    It is connected to Line K's terminus station - Santo Domingo. It is also expected that this new line will help promote and develop tourism in the rural areas around Lake Guarne. It will take 14 minutes to ascend to El Tambo and there will be no intermediate stations.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrocable_(Medell%C3%ADn)
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 01-03-2016 at 03:25 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  10. #110

    Default

    Disney World is building its Skyliner gondola — here's how it will look - INSIDER

    https://www.thisisinsider.com/disney...-photos-2018-9

  11. #111
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    12,074

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Disney World is building its Skyliner gondola — here's how it will look - INSIDER

    https://www.thisisinsider.com/disney...-photos-2018-9
    we were way out in front of disney on this one:

    http://gondolaproject.com/2013/03/25...yrides-canada/



    city of vancouver archives/copyright
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  12. #112

    Default

    Ha!

    ^ that is so 1980's.

    Montreal had it at EXPO 67



    lightweight mass transit as well



    HQ Video
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 19-09-2018 at 07:26 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  13. #113

    Default

    SEPT 2018


    LA PAZ’S 8TH URBAN GONDOLA, THE PURPLE LINE, RECEIVES ITS FIRST PASSENGER
    http://gondolaproject.com/2018/09/05...rst-passenger/


    President Morales once again became the first passenger to board the Purple Line. Image by Cesar Dockweiler.

    Purple Line. Image by ATB.

    In a span of just five years, La Paz has built over 27km (16.2mi) of rapid transit. That’s faster or nearly the same amount of time it takes to complete infrastructure review processes in some North American jurisdictions.


    The new Purple Line (Spanish: Línea Morada) which saw its first passenger on Thursday last week marks the third line that directly connects El Alto and La Paz (after the Yellow Line and Red Line) and the second “next-generation” gondola in the Bolivian city (after the Sky Blue Line).


    This means that unlike some of the previous cable cars (e.g. Red, Green, Yellow, Blue, Orange and White), the new 4.3km urban cable car has upgraded performance abilities with capacities reaching 4,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd) and speeds of 6m/s.


    Comparatively speaking, most of the older systems operate with capacities of a thousand persons less and speeds of 1m/s less than the Purple Line.
    Looking more like a transit network with each new line.
    I wonder why they can build this so much faster and have more passengers than our LRT?


    Master plan for all 11 urban gondola lines. Image from Mi Teleferico.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  14. #114

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Disney World is building its Skyliner gondola — here's how it will look - INSIDER

    https://www.thisisinsider.com/disney...-photos-2018-9
    we were way out in front of disney on this one:

    http://gondolaproject.com/2013/03/25...yrides-canada/

    Actually no, Disney had their first aerial gondola in 1956.

    The Skyway was a prominent ride at Disneyland when it opened a year after the park’s debut.

    For nearly four decades, the attraction ferried an estimated 150 million passengers.
    https://www.ocregister.com/2016/05/1...tar-wars-land/
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  15. #115
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    47,272

    Default

    Had a great presentation from Steven Dale from http://creativeurbanprojects.com recently, on best practices for the Edmonton gondola.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  16. #116

    Default

    What is the trajectory on this project? Will the COE make an honest evaluation on the idea and assist in making it happen?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  17. #117

    Default

    My guess is the city won't touch it, at least in terms of making any financial contributions.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  18. #118

    Default

    This is proposed as a private venture but it cannot happen unless the COE allows the ROW to be leased for the supports and route. It would also be a greater public transit benefit if at some point that the fares could be integrated.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  19. #119

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    SEPT 2018


    LA PAZ’S 8TH URBAN GONDOLA, THE PURPLE LINE, RECEIVES ITS FIRST PASSENGER
    http://gondolaproject.com/2018/09/05...rst-passenger/


    President Morales once again became the first passenger to board the Purple Line. Image by Cesar Dockweiler.

    Purple Line. Image by ATB.

    In a span of just five years, La Paz has built over 27km (16.2mi) of rapid transit. That’s faster or nearly the same amount of time it takes to complete infrastructure review processes in some North American jurisdictions.


    The new Purple Line (Spanish: Línea Morada) which saw its first passenger on Thursday last week marks the third line that directly connects El Alto and La Paz (after the Yellow Line and Red Line) and the second “next-generation” gondola in the Bolivian city (after the Sky Blue Line).


    This means that unlike some of the previous cable cars (e.g. Red, Green, Yellow, Blue, Orange and White), the new 4.3km urban cable car has upgraded performance abilities with capacities reaching 4,000 passengers per hour per direction (pphpd) and speeds of 6m/s.


    Comparatively speaking, most of the older systems operate with capacities of a thousand persons less and speeds of 1m/s less than the Purple Line.
    Looking more like a transit network with each new line.
    I wonder why they can build this so much faster and have more passengers than our LRT?


    Master plan for all 11 urban gondola lines. Image from Mi Teleferico.
    The construction speed is amazing. It would be interesting to see where their abilities and responsibilities differ from here as this speed seem more like something we’d see out of dictatorships like China or in the Middle East.





    Some info/data buried in here:

    https://publications.iadb.org/bitstr...=1&isAllowed=y
    Last edited by KC; 25-09-2018 at 12:53 PM.

  20. #120

    Default

    It is simply that aerial gondolas by nature of the design is less intrusive and leave the ground undisturbed for the majority of the route. No bridges, no moving utilities, minimal traffic disruption etc. Also the majority of the components are also off the shelf and far less materials are required to build compared to LRT.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  21. #121
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    47,272

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    What is the trajectory on this project? Will the COE make an honest evaluation on the idea and assist in making it happen?
    A lot of happening behind the scenes and being driven privately.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  22. #122

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    This is proposed as a private venture but it cannot happen unless the COE allows the ROW to be leased for the supports and route. It would also be a greater public transit benefit if at some point that the fares could be integrated.
    Yes, there are definitely a lot of ways the city could help without contributing funds and I hope they do. I would love to see this happen.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  23. #123
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    47,272

    Default

    More to come...
    Last edited by IanO; 26-09-2018 at 12:18 PM.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  24. #124

    Default

    Nice. Keep it going
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  25. #125

    Default

    Yes, it is great that this project is moving forward with a crack team.

    My only suggestion is that the north end terminus should be Rogers Place with a intermediate station at Bay to have a direct link to both the LRT station. This is also a straighter line along 103rd Street on the North Side.

    I still do not see the utility of terminating at SHAW with no direct connections to buses or LRT and so far from even the Quarters or the DT core. Lets keep the focus on viable and efficient transit, not a tourist route.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-09-2018 at 11:54 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  26. #126

    Default

    Yes I think a direct link to LRT will be essential if it is to be integrated into the transit system.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  27. #127

    Default

    If we can't run the line down 103st, like PRT suggested, I like the idea of the downtown terminus being at Telus Plaza. Partner with the city so that your gondola ticket works as an ETS transfer, and hop the LRT from Central Station or bus to Roger's Place or Churchill Square.

  28. #128

    Default

    I prefer the 103rd st alignment followed by a 101st st alignment to 104th Ave.

    My 3rd favorite is the Telus location. My fourth is a 10th alignment and lastly is the Shaw terminus.

    Shaw is a poor location and IMHO will result in halving the potential ridership.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  29. #129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I prefer the 103rd st alignment followed by a 101st st alignment to 104th Ave.

    My 3rd favorite is the Telus location. My fourth is a 10th alignment and lastly is the Shaw terminus.

    Shaw is a poor location and IMHO will result in halving the potential ridership.
    I think the Telus one is the easiest, and best option. Given that a pedestrian crossing is expected in the area to get across to the Funicular. Would be nice to have that connectivity. I still can't see the reason for a connection all the way to the Arena. If we're going further than Telus than Arts District and Churchill Square terminus is a better option, and with space for it.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  30. #130

    Default

    I would prefer as second to the Rogers terminus would be 101st to Churchill. Connects to every LRT line. Who could not support that over Shaw?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  31. #131
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,506

    Default

    What's the latest on this?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  32. #132
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    47,272

    Default

    Work continues behind the scenes.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  33. #133

    Default

    I think a route down 106 ST in Strathcona and 103 ST downtown makes the most sense. Keep in mind that gondolas need a terminal to turn corners which slows down travel time, so having a station at the deflection locations would help increase the speed of the trip. If 95 AV in Rossdale wasn't realigned, the station would have to be elevated above the road, which is fine, but with the proposed plan to reconfigure roads in the area, this should be possible. I also don't think it would be ideal (or allowable) to have the line go above the Rossdale substation, so that is a limiting factor. If Telus field wan't in the way, I would say do a straight line south from 103 ST downtown to Gateway BLVD in Strathcona... but that might not be an option.

  34. #134
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,506

    Default

    The problem with 103 St is that it runs along a narrow road full of apartment buildings. Plus where would you build a terminal?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  35. #135

    Default

    Tells field is not in the way. Easy to bypass or even go over.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  36. #136

    Default

    https://flic.kr/p/QXbS15
    I was thinking something along these lines. Sorry for the horrible quality in the image. I see 5 apartment buildings that are along 103 ST and I don't think it would be a massive issue to go past these. The setbacks are likely sufficient to provide sufficient privacy. As for building over the ball park, I don't see this as an option as it would also have to go over the Rossdale water treatment plant which could be a security issue. I could see stations built above the road. The downtown station could have direct access to the pedway linking the U of A downtown campus to the Enbridge building. It would also have convenient access to Bay LRT and Rogers Place. The Rossdale stop could be above Rossdale Rd and coordinate with the new plans for the area. Walterdale station would be at the south abutment of the old Walterdale bridge. The Whyte AV stop would be above 106 ST.

    Having the line above the road shouldn't be an issue as the towers could simply be an A-frame design with posts just past the sidewalk.

    104 ST downtown is likely not an cost effective option as it is a utility corridor for various utilities, especially power, as there are two electrical transmission circuits under the road and a ductline that goes downtown from the Rossdale substation.

  37. #137

    Default

    Where exactly would you put the station?


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •