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Thread: Annoying Driving habits in Edmonton

  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    This is almost a daily issue for me. People just don't seem to realize that they are supposed to speed up for a merge, not that everyone else is supposed to slow 20kph or more under the limit for them. I've been behind vehicles doing 60 kph merging onto 100 kph (max.) roads.
    You have to be careful though. The law is reasonably clear on an accident in a merge. Both parties are at fault (no party has a right of way). So, yeah its annoying having to slow down to let someone on, but if you block them out that's no good either.

  2. #202
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    Remember to ZIPPER MERGE everyone. I was recently down by Banff on the TCH. There was a car that left the roadway and ended up a few meters into the median ditch, thus the left lane was closed by an AB Sheriff. Approaching traffic was zipper merging and it worked so damn good that it blew my mind. It was beautiful to witness and be a part of.


    It is the way to go! Remember this, especially during construction season.
    When did punk rock become so safe? When did the scene become a joke?
    The kids who used to live for beer and speed, now want their fries and coke.

  3. #203
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    Another classic. Pulling into a car wash lane at the gas station, and then walking in to pay.

  4. #204

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    I installed a dash cam last week. Haven't been out much since so I haven't caught any stupid driving quite yet, which is rather odd.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    I'm sorry, but this really does apply to Edmonton Drivers regarding highway driving into the city.

    Because of the many off-ramps from Stony Plain and Spruce Grove I noticed that at that point is when all bets are off when it comes to driving the fast lane.

    I drive the highways a lot because of my job and no matter what time of the day I drive into the city, the highways are quiet until you reach that section of the highway is when you can't drive the fast lane without someone driving slower than the speed limit or worse, the big rigs.

    And there's really nothing you can do about it except lower your speed to under 100 and even put up with the big rigs cutting you off because the big rig in front of them is going too slow.

    Just something that has been a problem for at least 10 years.

    I just wish people would comply to highway etiquette
    Ties in with my comments about people merging onto highways and freeways without accelerating to the highway speed.

    Just today I was behind an SUV getting onto the Anthony Henday and the driver accelerated from 60 kph to 80 kph but the AH was 100 kph there. Right lane traffic has to slow or move left and people like me have to take to the left lane and accelerate because traffic is approaching fast from the rear in the right lane. These drivers just force more traffic into the left lane instead of properly merging at the speed of the existing traffic.

    This is almost a daily issue for me. People just don't seem to realize that they are supposed to speed up for a merge, not that everyone else is supposed to slow 20kph or more under the limit for them. I've been behind vehicles doing 60 kph merging onto 100 kph (max.) roads.
    Yes, this is probably my biggest pet peeve, and it happens all the time.

    To add to this, when an off ramp, and on ramp share the same lane (see AHD on ramp from Whitemud, and Callingwood RD/62 ave off ramp). People will often use that section to get to 62 ave, but only go like 70 km/h cause they are exiting right away. Meanwhile you have other vehicles trying to get on/off the AHD, while doing freeway speeds. Thus causing a backlog and ripple effect down the AHD, all because someone didn't want to get up to 100km/h since they were exiting right away. No need for that since the off ramp is very long.

  6. #206

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    I thought I'd revive this old thread with a totally unrelated video...


    NASCAR Crashes: '50s and '60s Edition.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dqWhJJlDU8

  7. #207
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    To the old bag driving the black beamer that wandered into the outside lane whilst doing a left turn at 75 street & 82 ave: Your illegal act almost wrote my car off and honking at me furiously for 10 seconds when you're the one breaking the law gets you nowhere. Pick up a f*cking learners manual and re-read the damn thing and try to absorb the information. Oh, and if you think lying to your insurance company and trying to blame me I have 2 dashcams acting as witnesses because of f*cking idiots like you.
    Time spent in the Rockies is never deducted from the rest of your life

  8. #208

  9. #209

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    Black BMW. Hmmm. Gee I think I know the one.

  10. #210

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    I blame the city ' pay to speed ' program aka photo radar it only promotes reckless behavior

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    I blame the city ' pay to speed ' program aka photo radar it only promotes reckless behavior
    Speeding doesn't seem related to the ability to make a turn or keep it between the lines. Though, as they alwAys say, "speed kills", and hence the singular focus on speeding infractions and nothing else*.

    So obviously if she was going slower kitlope's vehicle wouldn't have been at any risk.

    I guess we should all slow down more to make our turns. Start crawling through those intersections everyone!


    * it seems half the population thinks it's quite ok to change lane's through an intersection. Is it?

    Also on the same vein of thought, they make a right hand turn directly into the centre lane. I was taught, curb to curb turning. Take the curb land then signal to move left.



    Is it illegal to make a right turn into the left lane?
    JASON TCHIR
    Special to The Globe and Mail, Nov. 17, 2015

    I learned in driving school that when turning, unless otherwise marked, you must turn into the closest lane . But when I’m turning left onto a two-lane one-way street , I’m always cutting off somebody who’s trying to make a right turn into the leftmost lane. Every night, I get honked at, yelled at, called names, given the, well, you get the point. Am I entitled to the leftmost lane, and should the other cars be turning right into the rightmost lane? — Scott, Ottawa
    ...

    When you’re turning right, you don’t have the right to turn into the left lane, police say.

    “In simple terms, you turn right into the right lane only, and left in to the left lane only,” says Toronto police traffic services Const. Clint Stibbe. “The only (legal) exception for a vehicle making a right turn into another lane has to do with a transport trailer, if they have to make a wide turn.”


    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...ticle27292018/


    Bolding is mine


    Pages: 62, 63

    https://www.transportation.alberta.c...datedMay13.pdf
    Last edited by KC; 07-05-2017 at 11:11 AM.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    I blame the city ' pay to speed ' program aka photo radar it only promotes reckless behavior
    Speeding doesn't seem related to the ability to make a turn or keep it between the lines. Though, as they alwAys say, "speed kills", and hence the singular focus on speeding infractions and nothing else*.

    So obviously if she was going slower kitlope's vehicle wouldn't have been at any risk.

    I guess we should all slow down more to make our turns. Start crawling through those intersections everyone!


    * it seems half the population thinks it's quite ok to change lane's through an intersection. Is it?

    Also on the same vein of thought, they make a right hand turn directly into the centre lane. I was taught, curb to curb turning. Take the curb land then signal to move left.
    Should have took public transit or walk. Then wouldn't have to complain about it.

  13. #213

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    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by champking View Post
    I blame the city ' pay to speed ' program aka photo radar it only promotes reckless behavior
    Speeding doesn't seem related to the ability to make a turn or keep it between the lines. Though, as they alwAys say, "speed kills", and hence the singular focus on speeding infractions and nothing else*.

    So obviously if she was going slower kitlope's vehicle wouldn't have been at any risk.

    I guess we should all slow down more to make our turns. Start crawling through those intersections everyone!


    * it seems half the population thinks it's quite ok to change lane's through an intersection. Is it?

    Also on the same vein of thought, they make a right hand turn directly into the centre lane. I was taught, curb to curb turning. Take the curb land then signal to move left.
    Should have took public transit or walk. Then wouldn't have to complain about it.
    Yes! Bring back the horse and carriage! . Somewhat self-driving vehicles. Minimal driver ed required too.

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    * it seems half the population thinks it's quite ok to change lane's through an intersection. Is it?
    No. And that's exactly what she did. She wanted the immediate driveway on the outside so thus changed lanes during the turn. And then blasted her horn for a good 10 seconds because, heaven forbid, I was playing by the rules.

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    Kitlope, yes what that woman did was illegal. Lane 1 turns into lane 1, lane 2 into lane 2.

    HOWEVER, if you are NOT turning your vehicle at the intersection to proceed in a different direction, thus you are traveling thru the intersection - it IS legal to change lanes within the intersection. So, you are going straight thru on a green light and you suddenly want the lane next to you, you can legally move there whilst inside the intersection area. Frowned upon, but legal.
    When did punk rock become so safe? When did the scene become a joke?
    The kids who used to live for beer and speed, now want their fries and coke.

  16. #216
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    Can you link something that says it is legal to change lanes in an intersection?

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    ^I think actually you have to link something that says its' illegal. I was skeptical, but did a bit of googling and there are no clear rules that it is against the law in general, in Alberta.

    You might get ticketed for unsafe lane change, but not specifically because it was doing so in an intersection.

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    Seems like it's never mentioned specifically as either permitted or prohibited. I would imagine that it could be covered/interpreted under the unsafe lane change provisions. I was taught that it was not permitted to change lanes in an intersection when I learned to drive. Even if it's not specifically prohibited, it should only be done rarely, as it is unsafe for a variety of reasons.

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    ^agreed. Avoid as much as possible.

  20. #220

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    Here's my gripe: On the Whitemud and Henday (especially the 3 lane portions) I always see, on almost daily occurrence, left lane hoggers who stay in the far left lane for their entire duration they're on the freeway (most doing the speed limit) and then make two to three to even four lane changes at the very last minute to get to their exit. These aren't even good lane changes, usually involves forcing their way in, using brakes to slow down to slip into the adjacent lanes, or the hell mary change 3 lanes at once, etc

    Like left lane hogging aside, why are you in the left most lane when your exit is in less than a kilometre with rush hour traffic.

    I see this so often that I don't think its even a case of "oh @#%! my exit is here" but more a case of consistent driving behaviour.

  21. #221

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    Overall situational awareness & failing to anticipate upcoming events is a fairly common issue with Edmonton drivers. It's how people get caught in speed limit changes, how they fail at merging & how they end up in the wrong lane for their destination. Lots of outcomes all funnel back to the root cause of someone not paying the right kinds of attention while they're driving.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  22. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Here's my gripe: On the Whitemud and Henday (especially the 3 lane portions) I always see, on almost daily occurrence, left lane hoggers who stay in the far left lane for their entire duration they're on the freeway (most doing the speed limit) and then make two to three to even four lane changes at the very last minute to get to their exit. These aren't even good lane changes, usually involves forcing their way in, using brakes to slow down to slip into the adjacent lanes, or the hell mary change 3 lanes at once, etc

    Like left lane hogging aside, why are you in the left most lane when your exit is in less than a kilometre with rush hour traffic.

    I see this so often that I don't think its even a case of "oh @#%! my exit is here" but more a case of consistent driving behaviour.
    I see this all the time. It's espcially annoying when that person doing that has a clear break behind a bunch of cars, but instead tries to floor to find a break, doesn't find a break and then forces there way in causing everyone behind the spot they cut into to jam on their brakes, creating a ripple effect, and then another person does it, next thing you know, entire stretches of the henday are doing 40 under, which then causes more people to try the same. Do you not realize you are causing the problem to be worse, and you really are not saving much time at all.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Overall situational awareness & failing to anticipate upcoming events is a fairly common issue with Edmonton drivers. It's how people get caught in speed limit changes, how they fail at merging & how they end up in the wrong lane for their destination. Lots of outcomes all funnel back to the root cause of someone not paying the right kinds of attention while they're driving.
    One of the difficulties is road design sometimes facilitates ill advised lane shifting. For instance businesses that have only one access point. So that if somebody was approaching the business from an intersecting road turn they would have to recover in the middle lane after a right turn in order to make the left turn to get to the business.

    The last traffic accident I ever had 25yrs ago was the result of bad road design/improper business access. The business in question had one entrance, situated at a spot on a two lane road with a solid line between lanes where technically a left hand turn to the business was not allowed. The majority of patrons using the business would access through the left turn, as the road was leading out of town. Trying to access this business somebody behind me not paying attention, was speeding and didn't note my left blinker and that I was stopped waiting to turn. He slammed into the back of me at 70K in a 50zone not even having touched the brake. Being that I was turning left through a solid line the accident was considered 50/50 fault.

    So technically speaking it was illegal to access that business in the manner that the majority of its patrons did. That's a setup for customers, its a setup for drivers.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  24. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Here's my gripe: On the Whitemud and Henday (especially the 3 lane portions) I always see, on almost daily occurrence, left lane hoggers who stay in the far left lane for their entire duration they're on the freeway (most doing the speed limit) and then make two to three to even four lane changes at the very last minute to get to their exit. These aren't even good lane changes, usually involves forcing their way in, using brakes to slow down to slip into the adjacent lanes, or the hell mary change 3 lanes at once, etc

    Like left lane hogging aside, why are you in the left most lane when your exit is in less than a kilometre with rush hour traffic.

    I see this so often that I don't think its even a case of "oh @#%! my exit is here" but more a case of consistent driving behaviour.
    Many people spend most or all their time driving in the city. They get on the Anthony Henday and they think that they are driving in the left hand lane. Others doing so, but with more experience driving outside the city or even country on highways, interstates, etc and on urban freeways, think that they are driving in the passing lane.
    Last edited by KC; 11-05-2017 at 03:01 PM.

  25. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    Here's my gripe: On the Whitemud and Henday (especially the 3 lane portions) I always see, on almost daily occurrence, left lane hoggers who stay in the far left lane for their entire duration they're on the freeway (most doing the speed limit) and then make two to three to even four lane changes at the very last minute to get to their exit. These aren't even good lane changes, usually involves forcing their way in, using brakes to slow down to slip into the adjacent lanes, or the hell mary change 3 lanes at once, etc

    Like left lane hogging aside, why are you in the left most lane when your exit is in less than a kilometre with rush hour traffic.

    I see this so often that I don't think its even a case of "oh @#%! my exit is here" but more a case of consistent driving behaviour.
    I see this all the time. It's espcially annoying when that person doing that has a clear break behind a bunch of cars, but instead tries to floor to find a break, doesn't find a break and then forces there way in causing everyone behind the spot they cut into to jam on their brakes, creating a ripple effect, and then another person does it, next thing you know, entire stretches of the henday are doing 40 under, which then causes more people to try the same. Do you not realize you are causing the problem to be worse, and you really are not saving much time at all.
    We need more driver training emphasis on valuing smoothness, consistency, predictability and choosing to slow down and increase the distance between vehicles early enough to avoid even greater deceleration when known choke points are ahead.

    Same for the basics. Generally people don't even know how to signal a lane change. They are already moving over before they even try to signal their intention. What's the point at that point? Unless there are three lanes, you should be able to turn off your signal light by the time your first two wheels cross that line.
    Last edited by KC; 11-05-2017 at 03:12 PM.

  26. #226

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    ^ adding onto that, i have no idea why some people even bother signalling. So often I see the brake lights come on and then followed by the intention to turn.

    How about signal before slowing down. If you slow first, the person behind you just sees you slamming your brakes for no reason.

    Seems to always occur when a car turns into an alleyway (or a tight strip mall) from an arterial road - all of a sudden a hard brake, and then a turn signal finally comes on as the car is entering the turn. Why signal at that point

  27. #227
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    In the UK we were always taught: MSM, Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre.
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  28. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    In the UK we were always taught: MSM, Mirror, Signal, Manoeuvre.
    That's because you all drive on the wrong side of the road...

    jk aside its common courtesy, which is not so common these days.

    Turning blinker on and THEN shoulder checking (I shoulder check to minimize chance of blindspot) is the wrong order and yet so many drivers do exactly this. Its not only impolite it makes other drivers nervous and wonder if they need to take evasive action. Its annoying when someone shoots the blinker on as they are basically alongside you. As a defensive driver you assume they are in cut you off mode. I pay attention as well to the telltale changes in lane positioning. A lot of real bad drivers, and I don't know wny this is, will in a sense signal that they are going to change lanes by wavering around in their lanespace just before making the abrupt non signaled lane change. its like they get nervous and twitchy just before being impulsive. Noting this has real value on two lane highways and avoiding head on collisions. I can spot the twitchy ahole half a kilometer away on a straight stretch. Not so much on windy hilly, road..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  29. #229

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    ^I think some people aren't operating the steering column independently of the signal branch.I know some people stick out their pinky when learning to drive...so that when you're turning the wheel, your pinky will strike the signal branch...

  30. #230
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    ^^ Common courtesy, that's the big one.
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  31. #231

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    ^I think some people aren't operating the steering column independently of the signal branch.I know some people stick out their pinky when learning to drive...so that when you're turning the wheel, your pinky will strike the signal branch...
    This is what I don't get. It's stupidly easy to signal. I see the same people that weave in and out of traffic without signalling lane changes then stop in a dedicated turn lane and signal. They know the signal is there, but choose only to use it when it's largely irrelevant.
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  32. #232

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    I know this is about drivers but there seems to be no "Annoyng Pedestrian habits" thread.

    Ever had a jogger run into a ped-controlled yellow-flashing crossing and smack the yellow button in stride before continuing into the crossing? A young lady did just that to me the other day.on 116 St and 103 Ave. She nearly got very badly hurt as she blithely ran out in front of me as I was nearly through that intersection and would have cleared it if she had even looked both ways before stepping onto the pavement.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  33. #233

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Ever had a jogger run into a ped-controlled yellow-flashing crossing and smack the yellow button in stride before continuing into the crossing?
    The mid-block crosswalk on 106 St at NAIT is terrible for this. Headphones in, giant vape cloud, press the button without breaking step & into the roadway they go. Someone'll die there in the next 5 years.
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  34. #234
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    I'll cross River Valley Road in that fashion when jogging, but only if I've looked both ways and confirmed that no vehicles are going to immediately enter the crosswalk. Most of the time I don't even bother activating the flashers since I'll be across the road in 5 seconds. Otherwise, yes, it's incredible to me how some pedestrians seem to think that crosswalks afford them some sort of invulnerability field. Even if I'm crossing at a light controlled intersection with a walk signal, I'm looking every way to make sure that a right or left turning vehicle isn't going to run me down. The vast majority of pedestrians I see walking around downtown are completely unaware of what's going on around them because they've got headphones in and/or their nose in their phone.

  35. #235

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    I always assume pedestrians are suicidal when I'm driving, and when I'm walking and considering crossing the road, I assume every vehicle doesn't see me until I make eye contact with the driver, regardless if they have a red light, or flash amber lights for the cross walk is activated.

    Some people are lucky humans are now able to thwarts darwins laws 99% of the time.

  36. #236

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    The false sense of security extends to zebra crosswalks too. People just dart out with their ipods plugged in and not looking both ways...that's not how these crossing operate...
    Somehow we've got this sense of entitlement from pedestrians with the whole right-of-way always belong to pedestrians. Last I checked, that doesn't stop a 3000lbs object from killing you.

  37. #237

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    I blame it on care bears socialization. You're such a special snowflake, the world is your oyster. Nothing bad ever happens in nonstop gratification land.

    But of course also on increasingly immersive and insidious technology and with this only going to get much worse as virtual mediums increase.

    Finally very controlled school intersections, driving kids to and from school, bussing to doorstep results in other problems where kids have a lack of experience with real world traffic, intersections. We coddle and protect them until they're teenagers at which point they start to wander on their own for the first time and at the height of feelings of young adult invincibility and not adhering to directions.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #238

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    Annoying driving habit. Being in a jacked up car in the left lane and driving really slow just to stop at every light and slamming on the brakes at a yellow to make an unexpected stop when almost anybody else would have cleared intersection. Then proceeding to prevent vehicles from passing by either gunning it or slowing down to ensure both lanes were going slow. This person was going 40 in a 60 zone in perfect driving conditions This is troll driving, by this person, I have your licence plate and vehicle description btw. because you were doing it for ***** and giggles and laughing. Perhaps unknowingly you were being a hazard because you were trying to clog traffic and stop at last second for lights. Theres better sources of amusement out there than trying to cause accidents or intentionally annoy other drivers.

    The " this is my lane and roadway and nobody is getting past me" drivers exist. The worst occurrences with these being drivers that take the left lane on a freeway or highway and exert the left wing lock.. speeding and slowing down to make it impossible for anybody to pass.
    Last edited by Replacement; 15-05-2017 at 08:46 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #239

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    Walking with headphones in is no more dangerous than Driving with the windows up and the radio on. Probably less so.
    There can only be one.

  40. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by B.ike View Post
    The false sense of security extends to zebra crosswalks too. People just dart out with their ipods plugged in and not looking both ways...that's not how these crossing operate...
    Somehow we've got this sense of entitlement from pedestrians with the whole right-of-way always belong to pedestrians. Last I checked, that doesn't stop a 3000lbs object from killing you.
    Or 40,000 lbs expecting it to stop on a dime.

    I watch it all the time. Heads down, hoodie up, headphones at max, texting while crossing. You may look to see one or two cars stop for you on a 4 lane road but go into full oblivion mode and don't see the euro sedan passing me on my right as I watch in dismay that you are about to be sent to the morgue. When I honked my horn was not only to warn you of your impending doom but to try to warn the euro sedan that does not see you that his grill and windshield are about to meet with your various body parts. Loud horns and the sound of skidding tires were not enough for you to realize that you came just inches away from being a statistic and a violent and tramatic image of your brains smeared across a driver's windshield. All you realize that the sound of my horn just interupted your listening experience of Megadeath and thank me by raising your middle finger at me for interfering with your right to cross the street anywhere you darn well please.

    Next time I will not honk my horn and allow my dash cam to record the whole messy affair and make profit off you posthumously from selling the video recording to the highest bidder.
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  41. #241

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    So, the "annoying DRIVING habit" is the euro sedan driver passing other vehicles stopped at a crosswalk and you're ranting about the pedestrian? and how do you know their headphone setting?

    As I see it:
    Pedestrian: failed to "defensive walk". Imprudent. PRT pronounces death sentence for next time.
    Euro sedan: Failed to Yield. Illegal reckless behaviour from the one who is supposed to be trained, and who holds a license to operate a lethal weapon on a pubic street. No words from PRT.

    Speaking of annoying driving habits, a driver managed to hit the back of a row of 3 parked police cruisers without even noticing they were there. Pretty much wipes out any argument that pedestrians should wear bright clothes, I think.
    There can only be one.

  42. #242

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    The euro sedan could not see the jaywalking pedestrian.

    There was a van that stopped behind me so most drivers in the outside lane would assume that I was attempting a left turn. I looked in my passenger side mirror and saw the sedan coming at about 50kph so I hit the horn and the guy thankfully skidded to a halt.

    Lucky that the roads were dry and ice free. BTW, this incident happened about 6 years ago before I bought my dash cam and one of the many reasons I bought one. I drive defensively and even watch for other drivers and pedestrians who may not be doing so.

    All too often, pedestrians have no consideration and step off the curb without even looking. They may have the right but the laws of physics cannot be changed.

    And regarding the volume of the guy's headphones. I don't know how loud, or even if they were on or what music he was listening to. I do not think it was Bach's toccata and fugue in d minor on organ.

    All I know is that he did not respond to me holding the horn except to turn and look at me, not at the sedan, and give me the finger and some words he mouthed that looked like mostly four letter expletives. I don't think it was "Thank you".
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 15-05-2017 at 10:19 AM.
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  43. #243

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    Yes, assuming that people are NOT stopped for pedestrians is a real annoying, and dangerous driving habit. Don't they still teach you to assume that there's a pedestrian hiding behind each and every stopped car? I know that's what I was taught.
    There can only be one.

  44. #244
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    Things that drive me crazy:
    1. People not obeying no left turn signs, especially during rush hour on 100 street. I can't believe the number of people who disregard or just plain don't get what the sign means.
    2. Drivers who think they can stay on the outside lane of a traffic circle for more than a quarter turn and not yield to anyone else.
    3. People who think that a left hand turning lane requires them to make a wide turn. Hence slipping into the lane on their right. You're not driving a semi or a bus. Stay in your lane!
    4. People who don't "get" a 4-way stop. I don't know how many times I've come to one and been the 2nd or 3rd arrival and the 1st one doesn't clue in that he/she needs to go.

  45. #245

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    I wonder if insurance companies made it mandatory that every vehicle be fitted with dash cams if driving habits would change/improve.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  46. #246

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    So, the "annoying DRIVING habit" is the euro sedan driver passing other vehicles stopped at a crosswalk and you're ranting about the pedestrian? and how do you know their headphone setting?

    As I see it:
    Pedestrian: failed to "defensive walk". Imprudent. PRT pronounces death sentence for next time.
    Euro sedan: Failed to Yield. Illegal reckless behaviour from the one who is supposed to be trained, and who holds a license to operate a lethal weapon on a pubic street. No words from PRT.

    Speaking of annoying driving habits, a driver managed to hit the back of a row of 3 parked police cruisers without even noticing they were there. Pretty much wipes out any argument that pedestrians should wear bright clothes, I think.
    Aren't police cruisers mostly black now? Maybe some reflective tape.

    Also, stationary objects can be hard to see. Moving objects that blend in to their surroundings are also hard to see. Then there's the risk that vehicle speed combined with the others movement keeps them in a blindspot

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by trent_vinyl View Post
    Things that drive me crazy:
    1. People not obeying no left turn signs, especially during rush hour on 100 street. I can't believe the number of people who disregard or just plain don't get what the sign means.
    2. Drivers who think they can stay on the outside lane of a traffic circle for more than a quarter turn and not yield to anyone else.
    3. People who think that a left hand turning lane requires them to make a wide turn. Hence slipping into the lane on their right. You're not driving a semi or a bus. Stay in your lane!
    4. People who don't "get" a 4-way stop. I don't know how many times I've come to one and been the 2nd or 3rd arrival and the 1st one doesn't clue in that he/she needs to go.
    Just with regard to the last one some people are just nervous, and for good reason at 4 way stops as two apparent rules exist. The actual one which is first come, first go, and the occasional one which is either blow right through as if stop sign doesn't even exist or not waiting for turn. Those that tend not to wait their turn gun it. Having driven in Edmonton for a long time I take a moment too to assess whether other directions of traffic are actually stopping. That could be misconstrued as not comprehending the 4 way stop. Usually its just learned trepidation. Defensive driving as well considering the drivers we get here.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #248

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    So, the "annoying DRIVING habit" is the euro sedan driver passing other vehicles stopped at a crosswalk and you're ranting about the pedestrian? and how do you know their headphone setting?

    As I see it:
    Pedestrian: failed to "defensive walk". Imprudent. PRT pronounces death sentence for next time.
    Euro sedan: Failed to Yield. Illegal reckless behaviour from the one who is supposed to be trained, and who holds a license to operate a lethal weapon on a pubic street. No words from PRT.

    Speaking of annoying driving habits, a driver managed to hit the back of a row of 3 parked police cruisers without even noticing they were there. Pretty much wipes out any argument that pedestrians should wear bright clothes, I think.
    Aren't police cruisers mostly black now? Maybe some reflective tape.

    Also, stationary objects can be hard to see. Moving objects that blend in to their surroundings are also hard to see. Then there's the risk that vehicle speed combined with the others movement keeps them in a blindspot
    What a brainless decision making police cars black. Lets have the worst speeding projectiles that don't obey traffic signals, signs of any kind and make them black so that they are next to invisible at night. Also I don't note police car drivers being any more cognizant that they are hard to spot as they drive by you like you're standing still. Its harder for drivers to take evasive action and make room for a pursuing police vehicle when you can't detect it is one. They often speed without their flashing lights on.

    But we know the real reason they chose clandestine black, to be able to stop more speeders or be on the hunt for other traffic fines. All ironically in the name of safety, while driving a car in a manner, and color, that is dangerous.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  49. #249

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    Actually, increased visibility was cited as one reason they switched TO the black in 2011.

    https://www.pressreader.com/canada/t...81732676196808

    The fresh paint was driven in large part by public demand for increased police visibility, Knecht said. The black-and-white cruisers are better markers of police presence, he said, and the heightened visibility leads to increased feelings of public safety.
    “If the public wants visibility, we should deliver on it,” he said. “We’re mindful of the cost, and I think it’s a positive step forward.”
    The thought was that since EPS primarily drive on well-lit Edmonton streets & not darkened back roads like the RCMP that overall discernibility as a police car was the "visibility" they were going for, rather than overall luminosity. To many people black & white = police car, whereas a white or yellow or blue or whatever car.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  50. #250
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    The big blue and yellow highly reflective checkerboard pattern on the UK's police vehicles is much more visible, day or night.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  51. #251

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    I hate it when Edmonton drivers end up in positions and I have no idea how they pulled it off:


    source: https://twitter.com/KevinTuong/statu...36305229987840

    Here's the street view of the location:


  52. #252

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Actually, increased visibility was cited as one reason they switched TO the black in 2011.

    https://www.pressreader.com/canada/t...81732676196808

    The fresh paint was driven in large part by public demand for increased police visibility, Knecht said. The black-and-white cruisers are better markers of police presence, he said, and the heightened visibility leads to increased feelings of public safety.
    “If the public wants visibility, we should deliver on it,” he said. “We’re mindful of the cost, and I think it’s a positive step forward.”
    The thought was that since EPS primarily drive on well-lit Edmonton streets & not darkened back roads like the RCMP that overall discernibility as a police car was the "visibility" they were going for, rather than overall luminosity. To many people black & white = police car, whereas a white or yellow or blue or whatever car.
    If that's the degree of thought involved by the EPS its of more concern. Black cars are of course far less visible at night. This is a Winter city, taking evasive action to avoid one of these speeding projectiles, at night, which it most often is in winter, is difficult. I don't recognize these as police cars at night. I have trouble even spotting them coming up. I certainly don't discern they are police cars at night.

    Increased visibility is not black. Nor do you see the White when these cars are racing past you. Perhaps the front of the cars could be white, the more visible part. That the front and back are black speaks more to stealth avoid detection mode then it does to visibility.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #253

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    you want visibility?


    I heard it glows in the dark...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  54. #254
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    Umm.... is that a sponsored police car?? It sure looks that way.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  55. #255

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I don't recognize these as police cars at night. I have trouble even spotting them coming up. I certainly don't discern they are police cars at night.
    This speaks more to your own driving acumen & visual perception than some nefarious stealth scheme being employed by the EPS.

    That the front and back are black speaks more to stealth avoid detection mode then it does to visibility.
    Not all that familiar with Occam's Razor are we? Which is more likely, that the EPS changed back to the classic paint scheme employed by police cars the world over in order to conform with the overwhelming public perception that a black & white car is a cop car, or that they're intentionally making their cars hard to see in order to maximize their ability to enforce the law through deception?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  56. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I don't recognize these as police cars at night. I have trouble even spotting them coming up. I certainly don't discern they are police cars at night.
    This speaks more to your own driving acumen & visual perception than some nefarious stealth scheme being employed by the EPS.

    That the front and back are black speaks more to stealth avoid detection mode then it does to visibility.
    Not all that familiar with Occam's Razor are we? Which is more likely, that the EPS changed back to the classic paint scheme employed by police cars the world over in order to conform with the overwhelming public perception that a black & white car is a cop car, or that they're intentionally making their cars hard to see in order to maximize their ability to enforce the law through deception?
    Black is harder to see in the dark. I'm not sure what at all is complicated by that notion. Making a car black in front, black in back, results in it being less visible at night and in lane traffic. Again this not being a contentious concept.

    I do have corrective glasses and possibly some trouble with color and hue detection at night. That's possible. I have never had 20/20 vision so I do not know what that looks like.

    I'm unfamiliar with the design or color of such Police cars around the world. I am equally unfamiliar with the logic involved in repainting cars several times in a department always claiming they need more money. How many paint changes of police cars have their been in the last 50yrs here. One point of familiarity is making something look like something and sticking to that. You know, like the Golden Arches of McDonalds which isn't black, isn't changing and denotes something (Indigestion )

    ps Every study of this nature has concluded that Black and brown type hues are the worst color choice as they are involved in the most passive accidents; Light colors, particularly white, yellow, lime, are much more visible and result in less passive crashes;

    http://citycollision.ca/News/ArtMID/...Accidents.aspx

    Black police cars are inherently more dangerous. They are not safer.
    Last edited by Replacement; 24-05-2017 at 02:29 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  57. #257
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    All vehicles require running lights at all times even at night.

  58. #258

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    Whatever colour the police cars were, someone managed to plow into a row of them at speed.

    And people wonder why cyclists ride on the sidewalk.
    There can only be one.

  59. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    All vehicles require running lights at all times even at night.
    Which makes them look like any other black vehicle, all of which are harder to detect at night than ANY other color of vehicle as EVERY study ever done on this subject outlines.

    Lets argue something on C2E that is as established as such things ever get..

    The next point of contention.

    Is it raining, is the wind blowing, is the sky grey? ...
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Whatever colour the police cars were, someone managed to plow into a row of them at speed.

    And people wonder why cyclists ride on the sidewalk.
    I just want to clarify it wasn't me..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  61. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Black is harder to see in the dark. I'm not sure what at all is complicated by that notion. Making a car black in front, black in back, results in it being less visible at night and in lane traffic. Again this not being a contentious concept.
    Except it's not like it's a matte black car travelling an unlit road in a forest during a new moon. It's a shiny car, festooned with multicoloured lights & retroreflective materials, driven primarily on well-lit streets. Your hyperbole about it being some sort of ninja, prowling the darkness is what I'm taking issue with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I do have corrective glasses and possibly some trouble with color and hue detection at night. That's possible. I have never had 20/20 vision so I do not know what that looks like.
    I've worn corrective lenses since I was 3 & have no issue whatsoever in distinguishing a police car from a regular car, regardless of the colour scheme, regardless of the time of day. And I'm legally blind without my vision corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I'm unfamiliar with the design or color of such Police cars around the world. I am equally unfamiliar with repainting cars several times in a department always claiming they need more money. How many paint changes of police cars have their been in the last 50yrs here. One point of familiarity is making something look like something and sticking to that.
    Well good thing Edmonton's police cars look like the police cars most everywhere now that they're black & white. Once you manage to get the knack of recognizing one here you'll be able to spot one anywhere!

    And for the record, they didn't repaint the cars. They picked a different colour scheme when it came time to replace older vehicles as part of their lifecycle. And as to the point I bolded, I couldn't agree more. Which is why I'm glad we've got black & whites again.




    Taken from the aptly named Wikipedia page "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_...olice_vehicle)"
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  62. #262

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    Any time I've encountered one of these newer police car paint jobs the lights have not been on. They have instead been doing such things as driving up behind, over the speed limit, on 4 lane roads following close behind hoping you speed up a bit so they can pull you over or do any infraction they can hand out, With their flashing lights not on, hardly even noticeable in the dark through a rear view mirror, and with the entire black front of the car being the only thing visible. I haven't found these new cars to be highly reflective at all.

    Interesting that in your list of pictures above the majority of these police vehicles are black and white, in front and back, not an unimportant distinction as per visibility. Of course EPS gets even this wrong.

    Black at night is the stealth color. you know Ninja's. Black Stealth Fighter, Black Panther stalking prey. Black of course is often associated with stealth. Not unreasonable to think that.

    Nor do I subscribe to EPS saying every time that they are just incorporating this into the fleet with new vehicles. Unless that is that they buy all new vehicles every other year. Basically everytime they've gone with a color change the whole fleet is that color very soon.
    Last edited by Replacement; 24-05-2017 at 03:10 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  63. #263

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    ^
    I still see older Crown Victoria Interceptors in the old white livery. EPS bought some of the last Crown Vics off the factory line before settling on the Explorer SUV Interceptor as their new cruiser, so any Crown Vics in black and white are the newest ones in the fleet. Eventually the white cars will disappear as they break down beyond repair.

  64. #264

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    Yep. They're not repainting jack squat, just making different choices when buying replacements or otherwise expanding the fleet.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  65. #265
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    I'm with Replacement on this one. Top half white and bottom half black, or black doors and white front and back would have been better choices. Also put the lights back on top instead of inside, and require them to be used any time an officer is violating any traffic law. Endangering bystanders because you don't want to tip off the bad guys is not acceptable.

  66. #266

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    I'm with Replacement on this one. Top half white and bottom half black, or black doors and white front and back would have been better choices. Also put the lights back on top instead of inside, and require them to be used any time an officer is violating any traffic law. Endangering bystanders because you don't want to tip off the bad guys is not acceptable.
    Yeah, I noted your comment in another thread after I made mine in this one. To have all black front and back is not helpful. Its not visible, its not deterrent, its not safe. Its simply the wrong decision.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  67. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Yep. They're not repainting jack squat, just making different choices when buying replacements or otherwise expanding the fleet.
    I'll redact that comment then. But that stated this is the 2nd rollout of a new color fleet so far this decade. How often is this necessary? Make a choice and stick with it.

    What btw is the average use lifetime of the fleet? I know these are driven hard but..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  68. #268
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    noodle and Replacement, the blind leading the blind. lol

  69. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by trent_vinyl View Post
    Things that drive me crazy:
    1. People not obeying no left turn signs, especially during rush hour on 100 street. I can't believe the number of people who disregard or just plain don't get what the sign means.
    2. Drivers who think they can stay on the outside lane of a traffic circle for more than a quarter turn and not yield to anyone else.
    3. People who think that a left hand turning lane requires them to make a wide turn. Hence slipping into the lane on their right. You're not driving a semi or a bus. Stay in your lane!
    4. People who don't "get" a 4-way stop. I don't know how many times I've come to one and been the 2nd or 3rd arrival and the 1st one doesn't clue in that he/she needs to go.
    Just with regard to the last one some people are just nervous, and for good reason at 4 way stops as two apparent rules exist. The actual one which is first come, first go, and the occasional one which is either blow right through as if stop sign doesn't even exist or not waiting for turn. Those that tend not to wait their turn gun it. Having driven in Edmonton for a long time I take a moment too to assess whether other directions of traffic are actually stopping. That could be misconstrued as not comprehending the 4 way stop. Usually its just learned trepidation. Defensive driving as well considering the drivers we get here.

    Now, if I'm in the curb lane approaching an intersection of two two-lane roads, one or more other cars stop at the 4-way stop but that car(s) is in the centre lane, can I just quickly stop and then proceed to make a right hand turn - because they can't change lanes through an intersection?

    Government of Alberta Ministry of Transportation:

    Three and four-way stops:

    Intersections where stop signs are
    located at all corners are often referred
    to as “courtesy corners.” Vehicles
    approaching from each direction are
    required to stop. All drivers must use
    courtesy and caution. Courtesy is to allow
    the vehicle that arrived first to proceed
    first. If two vehicles arrive at the same
    time, courtesy allows the vehicle on
    the right to proceed first. You must not
    proceed unless you can do so safely.

    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/1991.htm

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