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Thread: West LRT | Downtown to Lewis Estates | Discussion about other possible routes

  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by K364 View Post
    After HUB the line splits and the westbound one continues underground angleing south - 87 ave on the west side is quite a bit south of the east side 87 ave. This also avoids the pedestrian bridge.
    It also goes downward so that a low bridge can be built.
    On the west side, it goes into a tunnel that emerges somewhere around the traffic circle.
    People don't freak out about LRT infrastructure in the river valley, do they? I thought it was considered "green". Was there much concern when the SE section was slated to go through Muttart and around the ski/fringe area? I don't know, I'm asking.
    That bridge is the most contentious issue of the line and heavily lobbied against for numerous reasons. Riverdale was, as always, particularly vocal.

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    Isn’t anybody tired of buses that stop every two blocks between downtown and West Edmonton Mall?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  3. #503

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Isn’t anybody tired of buses that stop every two blocks between downtown and West Edmonton Mall?
    Express bus.
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  4. #504

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Isn’t anybody tired of buses that stop every two blocks between downtown and West Edmonton Mall?
    Don't worry. Before too long we'll have a train that does the same thing.

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    Express bus speeding past the streetcar we're building. Link

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    Here’s one from Minneapolis: https://youtu.be/U2dnphRl3F4
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  7. #507

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Here’s one from Minneapolis: https://youtu.be/U2dnphRl3F4
    Boy those transit cars are noisy. I had to turn my sound down on my speakers.
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    I like the parkade at the station. This is something they should have at Century Park, Ellerslie, Clairview and Belvadere instead of a big field of parking lot.

  9. #509

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I like the parkade at the station. This is something they should have at Century Park, Ellerslie, Clairview and Belvadere instead of a big field of parking lot.
    For the low low price of what? 50k a spot!!

  10. #510

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    Not accurate. You forget that this is a COE project. Can't do a decent gold plated parking stall for under $170,000 plus 2% for artwork.
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  11. #511

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    How long would it take to collect enough revenue to pay for the 50k per stall?

  12. #512

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    A very long time. Especially since drivers want free parking to take transit or they will simply drive their Lexus's right to downtown.

    Most ETS parking stalls are free and only a portion can be reserved for $50/month. With lot maintenance and all the unpaid stalls, costs are never, ever recovered. They are a hidden transit subsidy.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 01-03-2019 at 12:17 PM.
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  13. #513
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    Yup, great news!
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  15. #515

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    Super excited for this to go head.
    www.decl.org

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Oh, Coverdale pretty much went berserk. The City only managed to sell it as:

    1) A replacement for the pedestrian bridge, which people then developed sentimentality for and tried to preserve as a restaurant/marketplace/whatever;

    2) A tie-in to the Mill Creek daylighting project, which is still waiting for the hundreds of millions it would cost.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Neither Mckinnon Ravine nor The NE crossing(s) were about crossing the river, both where about the land getting messed up on either side.
    My point wasn't about bridge crossings, it was about impacts to the river valley. It doesn't matter how 'green' a piece of infrastructure is, it's still damaging the pristine and natural green space that we've basically deified at this point.


    Way to completely avoid showing any of the slow moving areas or vehicular traffic pinchpoints lmao.
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  20. #520
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    I don't like how they did not show every stop along the route, especially the 124 street stop and the Jasper Place stop. I like how the elevated section seems to look and work well which of course saddens me that they can't just put more of the route, elevated as well. The Stoney Plain Road section would be ideal to be elevated which would allow for better movement through the area.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  21. #521
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    I wish people would stop saying stop. Totally redundant and very annoying ahhhhhhh.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I don't like how they did not show every stop along the route, especially the 124 street stop and the Jasper Place stop.
    Besides the above, I wish they showed the section from 102 Ave/105 St to 104 Ave/107 St.
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  23. #523
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    Ok fine, the stations. Although doesn't the train stop at the stations or does everyone just jump on and off of the train as it is moving?

  24. #524

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Ok fine, the stations. Although doesn't the train stop at the stations or does everyone just jump on and off of the train as it is moving?
    Yes. This is San Francisco where the people in wheelchars and elderly just have to get off when the train is moving......

  25. #525

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    I thought that people in wheelchairs just grab hold of the rear bumper and trailer behind... lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Ok fine, the stations. Although doesn't the train stop at the stations or does everyone just jump on and off of the train as it is moving?
    The answer to your question is that this LRT is similar to the Portland LRT. It stops at all stops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Ok fine, the stations. Although doesn't the train stop at the stations or does everyone just jump on and off of the train as it is moving?
    Yes. This is San Francisco where the people in wheelchars and elderly just have to get off when the train is moving......
    What a strange reference...why did you pick San Fran as a reference city when clearly you know that is not the case? Yes, The Cowboy's question was absurd, but so is your remark.....

  28. #528

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    You missed the joke completely




    It was a reference to SF cable cars where people often board while the cars are moving.

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  30. #530

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    maclac is still thinking...

    Buster Keaton was great, wasn't he?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    maclac is still thinking...

    Buster Keaton was great, wasn't he?
    Youre applauding Magnus? I got it, but since it came from his mouth, I presumed the "running" reference he made was purely coincidental to SF's cable car "running" to get,on the cable car.....I have done it myself on many occasions......go ahead - make friends with Magnus....should be sucking up to me instead

  33. #533

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    Magnus made the joke.

    You took it seriously.

    Joke's on you...
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  34. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by maclac View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Ok fine, the stations. Although doesn't the train stop at the stations or does everyone just jump on and off of the train as it is moving?
    Yes. This is San Francisco where the people in wheelchars and elderly just have to get off when the train is moving......
    What a strange reference...why did you pick San Fran as a reference city when clearly you know that is not the case? Yes, The Cowboy's question was absurd, but so is your remark.....
    Also too, I was referring to Glenco's dislike of the term Stop being used for stations. We will have stations but I guess we don't stop at them. 😋

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    In all honesty, is the city purposely creating traffic choke points to get people to move into the core instead of living in the suburbs or surrounding communities?

  36. #536
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    Or it encourages them to move further out

  37. #537

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    More of the later
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Or it encourages them to move further out
    Unless by further out you mean to Calgary, I don’t understand why it would encourage people to move further just to deal with even more traffic coming into the core. Trying to access downtown from the west end in rush hour is terrible enough right now, I can’t imagine how much worse this rail line will make it.

  39. #539
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    Basically you get a doughnut effect happening. Both Paris and Washington DC have that problem primarily because of height restrictions, I'd imagine other factors (poor transportation planning for example) could cause a similar result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Basically you get a doughnut effect happening. Both Paris and Washington DC have that problem primarily because of height restrictions, I'd imagine other factors (poor transportation planning for example) could cause a similar result.
    So eventually businesses will create employment nodes outside the core/traffic mess so that commute times for their employees are drastically cut down?

  41. #541

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    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    In all honesty, is the city purposely creating traffic choke points to get people to move into the core instead of living in the suburbs or surrounding communities?
    I'm going to the meeting tomorrow for the Capstone event.

    I was trying to work out the engineering for two lanes of LRT plus the existing four lanes of traffic on 104 Avenue and Stony Plain Road. Then I read that Councillor Cartmell said:

    “The south LRT and southeast Valley Line generally preserve the number of lanes along those alignments. But with west LRT, we are losing traffic lanes and the ability to easily cross this line.”

    Which version is true? Are they going to know at the Capstone event?

    I'm asking because I went to another event at the Edmonton tower last fall where the lady at the LRT/Transit table admitted they didn't even know yet exactly which buildings were going to be knocked down, how the traffic controls were supposed to work, or whether anyone now using the #2 bus etc from the West End thought it was too inconvenient. And of course how many lanes of vehicular traffic would remain.

    I'd like to hear from anyone who's going and anyone who knows whether they're going to choke traffic to two lanes on one of the highest use corridors in the city during business hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GranaryMan View Post
    In all honesty, is the city purposely creating traffic choke points to get people to move into the core instead of living in the suburbs or surrounding communities?
    I'm going to the meeting tomorrow for the Capstone event.

    I was trying to work out the engineering for two lanes of LRT plus the existing four lanes of traffic on 104 Avenue and Stony Plain Road. Then I read that Councillor Cartmell said:

    “The south LRT and southeast Valley Line generally preserve the number of lanes along those alignments. But with west LRT, we are losing traffic lanes and the ability to easily cross this line.”

    Which version is true? Are they going to know at the Capstone event?

    I'm asking because I went to another event at the Edmonton tower last fall where the lady at the LRT/Transit table admitted they didn't even know yet exactly which buildings were going to be knocked down, how the traffic controls were supposed to work, or whether anyone now using the #2 bus etc from the West End thought it was too inconvenient. And of course how many lanes of vehicular traffic would remain.

    I'd like to hear from anyone who's going and anyone who knows whether they're going to choke traffic to two lanes on one of the highest use corridors in the city during business hours.
    I’m pretty sure that right from day one of choosing that alignment they admitted they were going to lose vehicle lanes. However, if this is false I would sure like to know.

  43. #543
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    An outsiders opinion.
    https://youtu.be/o4UAjK-s9Zg
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  44. #544

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    An outsiders opinion.
    https://youtu.be/o4UAjK-s9Zg
    Can you indicate the section where he discusses the reduction of vehicular traffic lanes? I watched much of it and he seems more interested in design intricacies such as wood paneling and availability of tap card instrumentation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    An outsiders opinion.
    https://youtu.be/o4UAjK-s9Zg
    Can you indicate the section where he discusses the reduction of vehicular traffic lanes? I watched much of it and he seems more interested in design intricacies such as wood paneling and availability of tap card instrumentation.
    If he didn’t I can’t can I. Or are you just being obtuse?
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  46. #546

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    An outsiders opinion.
    https://youtu.be/o4UAjK-s9Zg
    Can you indicate the section where he discusses the reduction of vehicular traffic lanes? I watched much of it and he seems more interested in design intricacies such as wood paneling and availability of tap card instrumentation.
    If he didn’t I can’t can I. Or are you just being obtuse?
    So this is quite strange. I don't have photographic evidence but it actually looks like portions of Stony Plain Road from Oliver Square to the Y-intersection with 102 Avenue may be reduced to a single lane of vehicular traffic with dedicated bike lanes and two LRT tracks.

    Again the people at the tables were largely non-committal and even a little cynical. Also the projected completion date is somewhere around 2027. I can't figure out how it would take seven years just to slap down a few rails and build a couple overpasses. It only took sixteen years to build the whole Anthony Henday.

  47. #547
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    The video is from an outsider who is judging the merits of the system as proposed it is not an exercise in navel gazing by a cynical naysayer.
    Last edited by Glenco; 11-04-2019 at 07:31 AM.
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    SPR will now be a 2 lane, like it or lump it. People will have to get used to using 107 ave.

  49. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    SPR will now be a 2 lane, like it or lump it. People will have to get used to using 107 ave.

    I went to the second presentation and the issue is worse than I'd thought.

    104 Avenue is proposed to be two lanes each way until the beginning of SPR. Also, they appear to be clinging to the idea of running the train right down the middle of the road. This might not mean as much for commuters who will have to detour towards 107 Avenue. But for those businesses who set up in Oliver Square it's not at all good.

    Worse still, the width of 104 Ave to SPR will be expanded. There are a lot of old folks' homes in Oliver and those people already have trouble making 25-second light. This might have to be a 45-second light.

    On the brighter side this has effectively destroyed one of Edmonton's most popular drag strips. All they need is a few more traffic lights and the whole route will be almost unusable if you drive.

    Remember, too, that all this is so that it will take someone 35-minutes (it's in their literature and I confirmed it in person) to get from downtown to an expanded 900-vehicle park-n-ride out at Lewis Farms. I took transit out to see someone in that neighbourhood on Sunday and the whole trip took a little over an hour but only about a half hour all the way to West Edmonton Mall. The only reason it took longer to get to Lewis Farms is that you have to transfer to a feeder route.

    So this is a moderate time savings over a slight extension to what already exists, costing about three billions dollars, and effectively shutting down 104 Ave-SPR to vehicles.

    Is this really what everyone wanted?

  50. #550

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    Yes. In 20 years you won't be able to take an express bus from Downtown to Lewis Farms in 30+ minutes without a dedicated ROW and new articulated buses. Non-transit users seem to vote more in favour of LRT than BRT, as well the SE LRT line was in the books since the 70's and with the two items together you get a 20+ year transit and transportation outlook that has both far-reaches hitting travel times at 30-ish minutes into the Core. BRT would result in the same lane closures / dedications. We can still do BRT and are going to go with more express routes and bus priority with the new Transit Strategy.

    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed. We chose to go with a flat 30 min A-B LRT line from 'burb to Core without the bus in-between growth expansion because at 1 million people and building for futuree demand and congestion it looked like the best solution to current and future problems / needs assessments. Peak-hour travel times are key. And the LRT will not change from 30 minutes. That's what we are building. A reliable transit connection to the Core for 2040. No matter what someone will lose 1 lane of traffic for regular cars for transit priority to maintain a 30 minute or so travel time.
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  51. #551

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Yes. In 20 years you won't be able to take an express bus from Downtown to Lewis Farms in 30+ minutes without a dedicated ROW and new articulated buses. Non-transit users seem to vote more in favour of LRT than BRT, as well the SE LRT line was in the books since the 70's and with the two items together you get a 20+ year transit and transportation outlook that has both far-reaches hitting travel times at 30-ish minutes into the Core. BRT would result in the same lane closures / dedications. We can still do BRT and are going to go with more express routes and bus priority with the new Transit Strategy.

    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed. We chose to go with a flat 30 min A-B LRT line from 'burb to Core without the bus in-between growth expansion because at 1 million people and building for futuree demand and congestion it looked like the best solution to current and future problems / needs assessments. Peak-hour travel times are key. And the LRT will not change from 30 minutes. That's what we are building. A reliable transit connection to the Core for 2040. No matter what someone will lose 1 lane of traffic for regular cars for transit priority to maintain a 30 minute or so travel time.
    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed.
    That's false. I am a regular transit user and I've never seen this. Transit is underused in Edmonton.

    I absolutely understand that about non-transit users appearing to be far more involved in the LRT plan and development than transit users are. Planners tend not to use the products they're developing.

    So are you also suggesting that they're going to strip out the dedicated routes such as the 100 "Super-Express"? That would be truly tragic as I expect a lot of current users depend on that kind of service.

    There must be reason this is happening. Are commuters simply hoping that everyone else except for them takes transit once the "super-expresses" are tossed into the wastebasket? I know people who currently live out past the Henday, work downtown, but leave the SUV at home because of the traffic and the parking cost. But now we want all those people to pile into the family sedan and drive to Lewis Farms and pay two fees--discounted parking and an transit pass.

    Three billion dollars to get more commuters to drive to a park-n-ride. Hmm.

  52. #552
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    Umm in 30 years if the roads are jammed and the LRT runs on the roads with lots of level crossings the LRT is stopped too.
    How many times have you seen people block intersections when the light turns red.
    The best way is a system separate from roads

  53. #553

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Umm in 30 years if the roads are jammed and the LRT runs on the roads with lots of level crossings the LRT is stopped too.
    How many times have you seen people block intersections when the light turns red.
    The best way is a system separate from roads
    If places like Paris can have extremely high density and still have at grade lrt that is extremely functional and popular... we can too. Don’t worry we will adapt.

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    Yup we've adapted to the NAIT, University Avenue, Southgate mistakes, by not taking the train and driving elsewhere.
    We need to follow Calgary's plan where tunnels or bridges are used on major points, the track is fairly straight and trains run at 80 km/h, not Dublin's streetcar. There are reasons why Calgary gets more passengers per mile than Edmonton does.

  55. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Umm in 30 years if the roads are jammed and the LRT runs on the roads with lots of level crossings the LRT is stopped too.
    How many times have you seen people block intersections when the light turns red.
    The best way is a system separate from roads
    If places like Paris can have extremely high density and still have at grade lrt that is extremely functional and popular... we can too. Don’t worry we will adapt.
    We are not Paris. We are not built like Paris, and nothing about our transportation needs mirrors what happened in Paris. Just give up on this.

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    Stony Plain Road had a chance to make the westbound lanes one way, and they blew it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Umm in 30 years if the roads are jammed and the LRT runs on the roads with lots of level crossings the LRT is stopped too.
    How many times have you seen people block intersections when the light turns red.
    The best way is a system separate from roads
    If places like Paris can have extremely high density and still have at grade lrt that is extremely functional and popular... we can too. Don’t worry we will adapt.
    Paris has a subway system that is massive. So, can’t really compare the two.

  58. #558

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    Paris has streetcars, subways, high speed trains, metro trains, commuter trains, buses, and is built in a much more walkable compact less car-centric city.
    Last edited by Medwards; 24-04-2019 at 08:47 AM.

  59. #559

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    Slight difference

    Paris
    Density 20,000/km2
    Population 12,532,901

    Edmonton
    Density 1,855.5/km2
    Population 1,062,643

    Simple solution, fit all of Edmonton into a 7.5 km square border. Basically from 75th street to 142nd, 82nd ave to Yellowhead Trail.

    Then you can afford to have an effective, efficient and economical transit system
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  60. #560

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    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Yes. In 20 years you won't be able to take an express bus from Downtown to Lewis Farms in 30+ minutes without a dedicated ROW and new articulated buses. Non-transit users seem to vote more in favour of LRT than BRT, as well the SE LRT line was in the books since the 70's and with the two items together you get a 20+ year transit and transportation outlook that has both far-reaches hitting travel times at 30-ish minutes into the Core. BRT would result in the same lane closures / dedications. We can still do BRT and are going to go with more express routes and bus priority with the new Transit Strategy.

    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed. We chose to go with a flat 30 min A-B LRT line from 'burb to Core without the bus in-between growth expansion because at 1 million people and building for futuree demand and congestion it looked like the best solution to current and future problems / needs assessments. Peak-hour travel times are key. And the LRT will not change from 30 minutes. That's what we are building. A reliable transit connection to the Core for 2040. No matter what someone will lose 1 lane of traffic for regular cars for transit priority to maintain a 30 minute or so travel time.
    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed.
    That's false. I am a regular transit user and I've never seen this. Transit is underused in Edmonton.

    I absolutely understand that about non-transit users appearing to be far more involved in the LRT plan and development than transit users are. Planners tend not to use the products they're developing.

    So are you also suggesting that they're going to strip out the dedicated routes such as the 100 "Super-Express"? That would be truly tragic as I expect a lot of current users depend on that kind of service.

    There must be reason this is happening. Are commuters simply hoping that everyone else except for them takes transit once the "super-expresses" are tossed into the wastebasket? I know people who currently live out past the Henday, work downtown, but leave the SUV at home because of the traffic and the parking cost. But now we want all those people to pile into the family sedan and drive to Lewis Farms and pay two fees--discounted parking and an transit pass.

    Three billion dollars to get more commuters to drive to a park-n-ride. Hmm.
    As a peak-hour transit user I respectfully disagree that major transit lines from WEM and Mill Woods are not very busy and do not need to be greatly improved due to overcrowding. Planners look at data and projections, as one component of the line's design. The 100 will most likely be disbanded because the LRT line will replace it, and with a new better service for the #4 coming online shortly. One could (and I have) take a short bus ride to Lewis Farms and jump on the LRT, or currently the #100. Or they could pay what they feel is most economical.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  61. #561
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Yup we've adapted to the NAIT, University Avenue, Southgate mistakes, by not taking the train and driving elsewhere.
    We need to follow Calgary's plan where tunnels or bridges are used on major points, the track is fairly straight and trains run at 80 km/h, not Dublin's streetcar. There are reasons why Calgary gets more passengers per mile than Edmonton does.
    Nothing to do with tunnels or overpasses. The existing system runs at grade with level crossings with one avenue downtown closed to traffic to accommodate LRT. They have more passengers because they have a more developed downtown with a greater work force and expensive parking.
    Last edited by Glenco; 24-04-2019 at 12:44 PM.
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  62. #562

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    one could argue that the success of the Calgary LRT is a big reason why downtown Calgary is so developed? Parking is expensive because Calgary doesn't put up with cheap gravel lots it's core. How this is still acceptable here is just bizarre. Even the fact that we still allow surface parking lots at all is bad.
    Last edited by Medwards; 24-04-2019 at 01:05 PM.

  63. #563
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    Not so much allowing it is all about supply and demand. I rode their LRT for several years and the number of white collar professionals using their system is very high. Here it more of a class thing. Their system was under designed but very successful ours was over designed and has yet to reach it’s potential.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  64. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    one could argue that the success of the Calgary LRT is a big reason why downtown Calgary is so developed? Parking is expensive because Calgary doesn't put up with cheap gravel lots it's core. How this is still acceptable here is just bizarre. Even the fact that we still allow surface parking lots at all is bad.
    Is that the result of specific policies? Or just the result of higher land values and more demand for downtown development over the past 20 years? Last time I was in Calgary for business I parked in a surface lot right downtown, and it was $25 or something for 4 hours. They don't seem particularly extinct in Calgary, to my eye.

  65. #565

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    I thought in the 80s and 90s Calgary had policies against surface parking lots, and charged higher tax rates to prevent them from being a profitable business venture.

  66. #566
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    onus probandi, and all that...

  67. #567

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    well, my google-fu didn't come up with the answer, so I prefixed my statement with "I thought..." which indicates an opinion on something, not a fact. Had I actually found something more concrete, I would've linked it.

    I didn't state "Dems the facts hyuk hyuk huyk"

  68. #568

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    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    ....

    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed.
    That's false. I am a regular transit user and I've never seen this. Transit is underused in Edmonton.

    I absolutely understand that about non-transit users appearing to be far more involved in the LRT plan and development than transit users are. Planners tend not to use the products they're developing.

    So are you also suggesting that they're going to strip out the dedicated routes such as the 100 "Super-Express"? That would be truly tragic as I expect a lot of current users depend on that kind of service.

    There must be reason this is happening. Are commuters simply hoping that everyone else except for them takes transit once the "super-expresses" are tossed into the wastebasket? I know people who currently live out past the Henday, work downtown, but leave the SUV at home because of the traffic and the parking cost. But now we want all those people to pile into the family sedan and drive to Lewis Farms and pay two fees--discounted parking and an transit pass.

    Three billion dollars to get more commuters to drive to a park-n-ride. Hmm.
    As a peak-hour transit user I respectfully disagree that major transit lines from WEM and Mill Woods are not very busy and do not need to be greatly improved due to overcrowding. Planners look at data and projections, as one component of the line's design. The 100 will most likely be disbanded because the LRT line will replace it, and with a new better service for the #4 coming online shortly. One could (and I have) take a short bus ride to Lewis Farms and jump on the LRT, or currently the #100. Or they could pay what they feel is most economical.
    Overcrowding is a relative term. I have taken plenty of routes here during the school-time rush and you have to stand or wait for the next bus in five or ten minutes. I don't consider that to be "overcrowding" by any stretch.

    Key points, though:

    1] If you remove the express and super-express buses you're still going to have "overcrowding" only it's going to be in an LRT car and not on a bus. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

    2] You're now committed to $3 bn just for the West portion of the line. That's a lot of buses!

    3] The 900-vehicle Lewis Farms Parking Lot expansion.

    Let me expand on this last one for a moment. We're trying to get people out of their cars and onto transit. One argument is that we need the LRT expanded because the bus system is overwhelmed. Even if we accept every bit of that logic and the studies purporting to prove it, there's still the issue of the Park And Ride.

    I have spoken with the people at these LRT booths about things that appear to have been glossed over a bit. Lane closures and things like that are first on the list.

    But now you will have a sizeable town worth of people creating a new traffic jam into and out of Lewis Farms. It's going to be a nightmare for commuters unless--wait for it--they expand the expressway access routes to the Henday. I have looked at the proposals and the budget summaries and asked questions at the engagement events and nobody seems to know just how to deal with it. There's no money to improve throughway vehicle access to the parking lot.

    The original West LRT plan said they wanted *no* additional Park And Ride areas and re-develop Lewis Farms as a kind of suburban high-density residence project. That kind of makes sense but apparently nobody pursued that path.

    It's too late to do much other than whinge as the financing is in place and it cannot be stopped.

  69. #569

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    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GenWhy? View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    ....

    The current bus services along the proposed LRT lines were overwhelmed.
    That's false. I am a regular transit user and I've never seen this. Transit is underused in Edmonton.

    I absolutely understand that about non-transit users appearing to be far more involved in the LRT plan and development than transit users are. Planners tend not to use the products they're developing.

    So are you also suggesting that they're going to strip out the dedicated routes such as the 100 "Super-Express"? That would be truly tragic as I expect a lot of current users depend on that kind of service.

    There must be reason this is happening. Are commuters simply hoping that everyone else except for them takes transit once the "super-expresses" are tossed into the wastebasket? I know people who currently live out past the Henday, work downtown, but leave the SUV at home because of the traffic and the parking cost. But now we want all those people to pile into the family sedan and drive to Lewis Farms and pay two fees--discounted parking and an transit pass.

    Three billion dollars to get more commuters to drive to a park-n-ride. Hmm.
    As a peak-hour transit user I respectfully disagree that major transit lines from WEM and Mill Woods are not very busy and do not need to be greatly improved due to overcrowding. Planners look at data and projections, as one component of the line's design. The 100 will most likely be disbanded because the LRT line will replace it, and with a new better service for the #4 coming online shortly. One could (and I have) take a short bus ride to Lewis Farms and jump on the LRT, or currently the #100. Or they could pay what they feel is most economical.
    Overcrowding is a relative term. I have taken plenty of routes here during the school-time rush and you have to stand or wait for the next bus in five or ten minutes. I don't consider that to be "overcrowding" by any stretch.
    Most cities consider that overcrowding.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  70. #570

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    [QUOTE=stilicho;929696][QUOTE=GenWhy?;929110][QUOTE=stilicho;929033]....

    The original West LRT plan said they wanted *no* additional Park And Ride areas and re-develop Lewis Farms as a kind of suburban high-density residence project. That kind of makes sense but apparently nobody pursued that path.

    It's too late to do much other than whinge as the financing is in place and it cannot be stopped.
    Future plans for the commercial area next to Lewis Farms includes residential and office towers with expanded main street and more commercial/residential low-rises.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  71. #571

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    [QUOTE=GenWhy?;929735][QUOTE=stilicho;929696][QUOTE=GenWhy?;929110]
    Quote Originally Posted by stilicho View Post
    ....

    The original West LRT plan said they wanted *no* additional Park And Ride areas and re-develop Lewis Farms as a kind of suburban high-density residence project. That kind of makes sense but apparently nobody pursued that path.

    It's too late to do much other than whinge as the financing is in place and it cannot be stopped.
    Future plans for the commercial area next to Lewis Farms includes residential and office towers with expanded main street and more commercial/residential low-rises.
    Can you post the link to the appropriate page? I can't find it on the city website.

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