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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #1

    Default Snow and the city Streets

    I can not believe how horrid the street cleaning is here in the city of Edmonton. I come from a city that has an army of plow's when it snow's.
    The the streets that are semi cleared are done without a bit of common sense. Can the plows not gets to the curbs? Why do two lanes all of a sudden turn into 1.5 lanes?
    City officials need to seriously take a look and the contractors that are utilizing the snow clearing budget and demand better service for the tax payers money.

  2. #2

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    Yeah, this morning a DATs van got stuck in front of my house then managed to spin his way out. So, then when I backed out out I got stuck in the ruts and after about 10 minutes of rocking my "all-wheel-drive" I barely got out. Around the corner an oncoming bus laid on his horn at me but I was trying to move over but the banked up snow was just pushing my vehicle back towards the centre line which he was riding over so we just barely squeezed past each other.

    Then I took my 4 yr old to school and it was total chaos there with line ups of cars and trucks, and busses, people pushing vehicles everywhere. Parents and teachers getting stuck. People driving fast to avoid getting stuck. People stopping in the middle of the road to let old kids out, etc.

    I only got stuck twice by the school and was lucky as I only needed to be pushed once. (Helped push a couple other vehicles too.)
    Last edited by KC; 10-01-2011 at 09:09 AM.

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    In all honesty I think clearing has been much improved this year as we have indeed expanded our budget and changed how we clear residential.

    That said, I still find our clearing slow/poor compared with Ottawa's (where I grew up).

    I do have sympathy for the plowers though, monumental challenge.
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    driving in thick snow is like driving a boat in choppy waters. waves might push you side to side, but as long as you keep moving and keep the vehicle pointed straight, no problem.
    with snow tires and standard transmission, i have yet to get stuck, and the alley has snow up the bumper.

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    I have snow tires and a 6spd and haven't got stuck yet either nobleea(and I spent most of the weekend driving as my family is on vacation and I'm watching over 4 houses ). What about new drivers, people with automatics, ones that don't know to take traction control off if they have it on in deep snow as it will just kill their revs when they need it, people that just aren't good at driving in snow? We have to consider all them and not just ourselves, that's what this thread is about.

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    as of saturday morning main roadways on the northside were generally all cleared or in the process of being cleared.... I'm happy.... residential and cul-de-sacs will have to wait....

    (the once I saw cleared were 97st, 82st, 66st, 137ave, 153ave, 167ave)
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    This morning, here by me (very southside, right outside of the city limits), the roads still were not plowed and were a nightmare going into the city and school parking lots were a disaster. Parents stuck all over the place. I don't understand why school parking lots weren't plowed over the weekend. Oh and AWD is NOT the same as 4X4! lolol

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    My issue is more with the 'streets' in the core which serve as parking for hundreds of residents/visitors/workers in the downtown. I recognize the priority of removal, but i would guestimate that about 1/2 of all downtown meters are close to non-accessible right now.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    driving in thick snow is like driving a boat in choppy waters. waves might push you side to side, but as long as you keep moving and keep the vehicle pointed straight, no problem.
    with snow tires and standard transmission, i have yet to get stuck, and the alley has snow up the bumper.
    That's a lot easier said than done, especially if you have a commute.

    This morning I found that most major roads I travelled on had been plowed although some lanes or pieces of lanes were definitely lost. It's very difficult to get all drivers thinking on the same wavelength when the conditions require us to "improvise" on the road, and it's a bit dangerous. On the other hand, the residential roads where I live are abysmal. Very difficult to get in and out.

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    Edmonton does not get enough snow regularly to warrant the cost of maintaining it's own fleet. Those places that do, like Montréal, where I lived for four years, get an order of magnitude more snow than we do. We get a snowfall like this maybe twice a year. Things will suck for a couple of days while the city gets caught up.

    Not to say that there aren't issues with priorities and efficiency in plowing, just that comparing Edmonton to eastern cities with substantially more snowfall doesn't make much sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GypsyGirl View Post
    This morning, here by me (very southside, right outside of the city limits), the roads still were not plowed and were a nightmare going into the city and school parking lots were a disaster. Parents stuck all over the place. I don't understand why school parking lots weren't plowed over the weekend. Oh and AWD is NOT the same as 4X4! lolol
    Yeah I've got both (two Honda's) - very little trouble driving the 4x4 this weekend. (Didn't get stuck once.) The AWD though seems near useless - especially with it's all-season tires.

    I sure agree about upping the priority around schools!!! The snow creates a number of safety issues.

  12. #12

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    From a similar thread, http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=15367

    Jan 09, 2011

    After the recent significant snowfall, should a snow route ban be called?

    This bylaw was debated and approved with good reason by previous City Councils and all the signage was put up on bus routes and major arterials and collector route to remove parked vehicles after significant snowfalls.



    Removing the cars benefits all Edmontonians:
    1. easier plowing and removal
    2. streets get cleared faster
    3. this snow fall and previous packed snow can be plowed
    4. derelict cars can be towed
    You can help by calling 311 or email your Councilors [email protected] to ask them to initiate a snow route ban.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...uncillors.aspx
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...ow-routes.aspx
    http://www.edmonton.ca/transportatio...now_route1.pdf
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    My buddy who has an A3 with quattro showed me why they won so many rallys and touring car championships last night.... weeeeeeeeee
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    No problem with my car, FWD with snow & ice radials. Got through even the deepest snow and mush that scraped the undercarriage. Unplowed parking lots where even SUV's were stuck, I did not even spin my tires.

    I will never again use four season tires.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GypsyGirl View Post
    This morning, here by me (very southside, right outside of the city limits), the roads still were not plowed and were a nightmare going into the city and school parking lots were a disaster. Parents stuck all over the place. I don't understand why school parking lots weren't plowed over the weekend. Oh and AWD is NOT the same as 4X4! lolol
    Yeah I've got both (two Honda's) - very little trouble driving the 4x4 this weekend. (Didn't get stuck once.) The AWD though seems near useless - especially with it's all-season tires.

    I sure agree about upping the priority around schools!!! The snow creates a number of safety issues.
    Yeah my AWD SUV is useless. Completely useless. I love how the car salesman who sold me it told me that AWD and 4X4 are the same thing. And i've since learned otherwise that it's not. I got stuck on Saturday, hit the ditch, almost buried my car in the snow, and then again yesterday. It's brutal out there on these country roads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No problem with my car, FWD with snow & ice radials. Got through even the deepest snow and mush that scraped the undercarriage. Unplowed parking lots where even SUV's were stuck, I did not even spin my tires.

    I will never again use four season tires.
    Wow, that's awesome. Ok note to self.....get snow and ice radials, not all season tires. lol

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    4x4 and AWD are very much different 'things'...

    Mind you, for some of us all of this talk about roads is a 'moo' point... sidewalks were fine this morning on my 5-7mins walk.

    It was funny for those of us that walk or take LRT were on time with almost all drivers significantly late and frustrated or exhausted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    4x4 and AWD are very much different 'things'...

    Mind you, for some of us all of this talk about roads is a 'moo' point... sidewalks were fine this morning on my 5-7mins walk.

    It was funny for those of us that walk or take LRT were on time with almost all drivers significantly late and frustrated or exhausted.
    Well if i lived in the city i would definitely be taking public transportation rather then having the frustration of dealing with these roads myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GypsyGirl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No problem with my car, FWD with snow & ice radials. Got through even the deepest snow and mush that scraped the undercarriage. Unplowed parking lots where even SUV's were stuck, I did not even spin my tires.

    I will never again use four season tires.
    Wow, that's awesome. Ok note to self.....get snow and ice radials, not all season tires. lol
    The nokian all-weather (not all-season) tires are a nice compromise. they're essentially snow and ice tires that can be used year round (they have the mud and snow label).

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GypsyGirl View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No problem with my car, FWD with snow & ice radials. Got through even the deepest snow and mush that scraped the undercarriage. Unplowed parking lots where even SUV's were stuck, I did not even spin my tires.

    I will never again use four season tires.
    Wow, that's awesome. Ok note to self.....get snow and ice radials, not all season tires. lol
    The nokian all-weather (not all-season) tires are a nice compromise. they're essentially snow and ice tires that can be used year round (they have the mud and snow label).
    Oh ok, ty!

  21. #21

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    This morning, my first day back to work since xmas and I noticed that our major bus route was untouched.

    I had to waddle through about a foot of snow to get to the bus, who stopped in the middle of the road because he couldn't get to the curb.

    Goes to show that if you live on the southside, it's going to be a long wait before the snow clearing starts.

    And for the person who said we don't get much snow. There's lots of cities that don't get much snow and still have A-one snow removal service.

    We get enough snow here every year that we complain about the poor maintenance.

  22. #22

    Default Heh Heh ... not much out there to get stuck in yet...

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    My buddy who has an A3 with quattro showed me why they won so many rallys and touring car championships last night.... weeeeeeeeee
    ........ and let me qualify that;: our daily driver is a stock 2007 Wrangler on 17 inch wheels.
    My DW is having fun.....but even with the Jeep I won't be going on the highways any too soon.

    With that said, my daughter-in-law told me yesterday that their streets and side streets had already been plowed twice..... And no they don't live in Edmonton.

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    My bus has yet to get stuck yet

    Always on time
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmadventureX View Post
    I can not believe how horrid the street cleaning is here in the city of Edmonton. I come from a city that has an army of plow's when it snow's.
    The the streets that are semi cleared are done without a bit of common sense. Can the plows not gets to the curbs? Why do two lanes all of a sudden turn into 1.5 lanes?
    City officials need to seriously take a look and the contractors that are utilizing the snow clearing budget and demand better service for the tax payers money.
    An army of plows. You're not from Toronto are you?. Remember when they got a skiff of snow and called out the army. How embarrassing.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/01/14/snow990114.html

    I don't think it's because we don't have enough equipment it's because we are such a sprawled out city it is hard to be everywhere at once. The more sprawl the more drifting snow on the major arteries.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    ^ I do agree about the curb thing though, it's amazing and dangerous how many lanes just vanish as you're driving along.
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    Road Crews Battle Edmonton Snowfall - Edmonton Journal

    I had to laugh at this comment (from a Jetta owner) from the article....


    “Unless you had a 4x4 or a jacked-up truck or good snow tires, you weren’t going anywhere.”

    Ya figure?


    A foot of snow and people think it can be cleared in a matter of hours. Yes, I own a F-150 4X4 and my SO owns a Jeep Wrangler. We drive such vehicles because we know that's what it takes to navigate safely in these types of conditions.



    I have no compassion for those that aren't properly equipped for the road conditions.

  27. #27

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    I drive a saturn sc1 with all seasons and standard tranny. I haven't had any problems getting around downtown all weekend and no problems commuting to work today.

    Most of the people I hear complaining about getting stuck are those that living in that wonderful suburbia they often chime in about how glorious it is to live in sprawlsville. Not so glorious now? Ya, your cul du sac doesn't get cleared for a few weeks after snow fall... But yet you expect it to be cleared like its a main road?

    No sympathy. Your choice to live in that type of area. Deal with it. Your low-use roads are not the priority.

  28. #28

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    Yeah, if you have fields not far from your house your gonna get more snow blowing at ya and on the roads.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  29. #29

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    My bus nearly got stuck a few times this morning, but we ended up getting to south campus only 15 minutes later than usual.

    This is second hand, so I can't confirm, but word is the parking lot at Century Park station hadn't been cleared by this morning. Pretty poor, if that's the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    An army of plows. You're not from Toronto are you?. Remember when they got a skiff of snow and called out the army. How embarrassing.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/1999/01/14/snow990114.html

    I don't think it's because we don't have enough equipment it's because we are such a sprawled out city it is hard to be everywhere at once. The more sprawl the more drifting snow on the major arteries.
    Edmonton got 20-30cm over this past weekend. When Toronto called in the army, they had gotten 80+cm in about the same amount of time. So three to four times as much snow.

    It's like I said, people in Edmonton think we're so well prepared for winter and tut-tut when Eastern cities get walloped and shut down, not realizing that Edmonton rarely if ever gets anywhere near as much snow in a single storm as they do.

    Apparently this is the biggest snowfall in a short period in over a decade in Edmonton.

    Quote Originally Posted by soycd
    A foot of snow and people think it can be cleared in a matter of hours. Yes, I own a F-150 4X4 and my SO owns a Jeep Wrangler. We drive such vehicles because we know that's what it takes to navigate safely in these types of conditions.
    *shrug* I have a BMW 335xi (AWD) w/ winter tires and I can navigate safely as well. Some parking lots and secondary roads are a bit deep for my liking, but you don't need a big truck or SUV to get around in this weather. You need decent tires and AWD. I watched several trucks outside my office window get stuck today in the same intersection I drove through half a dozen times.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 10-01-2011 at 03:51 PM.

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    ^ I agree. Gas guzzling 4X4 trucks are overkill for the handful of days like this we get each year. Some warm cloths and my own two legs get me around just fine. I've always found that the deeper the snow drifts get, the more I enjoy being outside

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    My parents have several homes in Windsor Park around the U of A. Their residential roads haven't been cleared since the last storm in mid-December. Yet my partners parents live in Millwoods in a tiny crescent off from the rest of the development, and their roads were cleared the same week as the last storm. Funny how the neighborhoods paying the highest taxes in the city receive the worst service. Maybe it's part of the city's "equality" policy, eh?

  33. #33

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    My daughter lives around the U of A and she said the streets in her area are not done. Even with snow tires she has been stuck a couple of times. She is out today buying a shovel to keep in the back of her vehicle in case there is no one around to help.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    My daughter lives around the U of A and she said the streets in her area are not done. Even with snow tires she has been stuck a couple of times. She is out today buying a shovel to keep in the back of her vehicle in case there is no one around to help.
    They've done some areas around the University, but not all (i.e. Windsor Park). Again, not really sure why this part of the city gets ignored with things like street cleaning and snow removal. All the snow from the last big snowfall in December that hasn't been removed, plus all the snow from this most recent storm = problems.

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    I see the slightly snide comments coming from those downtown, oh-so-hip, yuppie dudes on here. Well, as a sprawl-dweller, I'll take a bit of snow at this time of year over constant honking horns, wailing sirens, blasting Harleys, puking drunks, yelling yahoos, you know, all the endearing norms of that swish, urban lifestyle.
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    I drive a Matrix, manual transmission, snow tires and haven't been stuck yet. The trick is to actually know how to drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I see the slightly snide comments coming from those downtown, oh-so-hip, yuppie dudes on here. Well, as a sprawl-dweller, I'll take a bit of snow at this time of year over constant honking horns, wailing sirens, blasting Harleys, puking drunks, yelling yahoos, you know, all the endearing norms of that swish, urban lifestyle.
    I live in Westmount and I don't think any of those things are the norm in my neighbourhood. In fact, those aren't the norms anywhere unless you're living right on Whyte or Jasper Ave.

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    the trick in residential is to actually do something about the sub-par snow situation on your street. In my neighborhood a number of people have actually shovelled the alley-entrances, and tonight I plan on shovelling the actual street in an area where at least 5 people have gotten stuck and proceeded to gun it, thus making the situation worse.

    it's easier to complain, but it does very little.

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    ^you sir need to say that louder.
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  39. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I drive a saturn sc1 with all seasons and standard tranny. I haven't had any problems getting around downtown all weekend and no problems commuting to work today.

    Most of the people I hear complaining about getting stuck are those that living in that wonderful suburbia they often chime in about how glorious it is to live in sprawlsville. Not so glorious now? Ya, your cul du sac doesn't get cleared for a few weeks after snow fall... But yet you expect it to be cleared like its a main road?

    No sympathy. Your choice to live in that type of area. Deal with it. Your low-use roads are not the priority.

    If you're referring to the residential neighborhoods that most of us live in, then maybe people do have a right to complain.

    The major roads appear to be clearing, but it's no point when the majority of us "Suburbianites" can't get out of our neighborhoods to use them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^you sir need to say that louder.
    I can put it in caps, but I think the forum will auto-correct it, sadly.

    I'm also toying with the idea of shovelling walks in the neighborhood and simply putting a flyer in mailboxes saying "I shovelled your walk. In return, please donate to a local charity"

    That idea would require some free time though, so we'll see.

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    And for the person who said we don't get much snow. There's lots of cities that don't get much snow and still have A-one snow removal service.
    See below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't think it's because we don't have enough equipment it's because we are such a sprawled out city it is hard to be everywhere at once. The more sprawl the more drifting snow on the major arteries.
    I doubt one could find a city of our population density that has as good a snow-clearing service as have we.
    Ut libet.

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    And, of course, there's the people who have no idea what do when they get stuck.

    I just went out front to help a lady who was stuck. I had to explain to her not to keep spinning the tires once car stopped moving. <sigh />

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    the city could put 1 plow in every neighborhood, plowing residential, and people would complain that major arteries aren't consistently plowed.

    It's a losing battle to try to appease every single resident. They're doing what they can in order to benefit the greatest number of people at once. It's not rocket science.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    And, of course, there's the people who have no idea what do when they get stuck.

    I just went out front to help a lady who was stuck. I had to explain to her not to keep spinning the tires once car stopped moving. <sigh />
    I knew what to do when i got stuck......i called hubby and dad and brother. lolol

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    Seeing that people here are bragging about their abilities with driving in deep snow...

    I drive a Subaru car (not an SUV, not a truck) with all-season tires and the AWD system propels it effortlessly through thick snow! For instance, a couple of late nights ago I drove to Macs to buy smokes and cash in on a $20 Lotto Max win (because there's no convenience store open late within walking distance where I live), and I was the only one able to park and drive normally in an obscenely unshoveled parking lot while everyone else was getting stuck and spinning their tires! I rule! Ha!
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    I'm such a good driver that a person with lesser driving abilities would not have been able to expertly balance their vehicle in such a manner where only one wheel was actually touching the ground after hitting the ditch like I did.

    lol

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    The major arterials are done and I still saw 3 roll overs along yellowhead trail.
    Even when the city has a road cleared, these idiots with thier 4 wheel drive,ABS equipped anything fly down the street thinking they are invincible until they hit black ice. Just like the one who flew over a guard rail westbound on 16 at the river tonight as I came in from Sherwood Park.Never mind the stupidity on the side streets where it will be March before a plow will arrive.
    Does anyone know in this city how to slow down, use signals and just a little common courtesy? This city does have the worst drivers no question
    Last edited by cnr67; 10-01-2011 at 11:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ander View Post
    the trick in residential is to actually do something about the sub-par snow situation on your street. In my neighborhood a number of people have actually shovelled the alley-entrances, and tonight I plan on shovelling the actual street . . .
    That's exactly what I and half a dozen others on our street did for about 4 hours yesterday. Quite impressive results, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Does anyone know in this city how to slow down, use signals and just a little common courtesy? This city does have the worst drivers no question
    I'm gonna have to agree. I'd like to thank the ***** who barreled down the road i was on, str8 down the middle of it towards me.....leaving me no choice but to move over closer to the shoulder of the road, or what i thought was the shoulder of the road....before i got pulled into the ditch from all the snow.

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    So I was just about to go out and shovel, and I see that someone on a quad with a blade on it is plowing our street.

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    Nearly five or six families just down the road from my parents place got out and shovelled their crescent on Sunday evening.

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    They're cleaning the Century Park park'n'ride as I type. I'm sure commuters will be happy. That was quite the disaster to watch out my window this afternoon.

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    Another problem is alot of contractors don't actually have a clue how to plow properly. The city doesn't even have the right equipment for god sakes lol. They've only plowed my street once.

    They didn't clean the side of the street properly, so now I have to park my truck on the snow bank. It's the only place lol.

    (On top of that, Some people have left there car on the side of the road since this summer lol, as you can see in this picture)



    What they need to do is get a proper setup to actually remove the snow and dump it somewhere else. Something like this...



    Last time I was in Ottawa when there was a big snow storm. Only took like 3 days and all the street including residential was all cleaned up and removed. Not just plowed lol. The snow that's removed from the street is actually dropped not to far from the river. So when spring comes around, it just melts in the river.

    Edmonton...as a capital city, you need to do better. WAY better.

    Just my 2 cents
    Last edited by Tharockus; 11-01-2011 at 05:10 AM.

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    ^ Hauling snow around is expensive and needless with proper urban design. All streets should have boulevards to pile the snow on until spring. On the other hand, I agree about lazy contractors. My street has boulevards but the last plowing left the windrow half on the street. They needed another pass with the plow right next to the curb, not 50-60 cm away.

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    With the sand and salt that is used you don't want to dump the snow in or near the river.

  56. #56

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    Main roads, residential roads, back roads, side roads...
    Some are cleared and some are not. My main issue is with the quality that they are cleared with. the company/companies that are contracted to do the roads are doing a poor job. Rather than clearing the snow it is all push to the side or piled in the center. Every single double lane, almost, in the city is just about down to 1.5 lanes and people are still trying to to drive as if there is two lanes.
    Who ever is contracting these people/companies need to hold them accountable for the shotty job.

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    Don't know if it's the same now, but when I lived in Leduc the snow was plowed to the centre of the street, then picked up and blown into waiting trucks, much like Tharockus' photo in post #53 above. They did a good clean job of it, too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Don't know if it's the same now, but when I lived in Leduc the snow was plowed to the centre of the street, then picked up and blown into waiting trucks, much like Tharockus' photo in post #53 above. They did a good clean job of it, too.
    I'm from Ft McMurray and that is how it was done as well. They would start and finish the road completely. Also it was done correctly right up the the actual curb leaving all lanes cleared.

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    I live in a townhouse complex, and the common driving area that leads out onto the main road always gets plugged whenever we get any kind of significant snowfall.

    I went out with a shovel and started clearing out the bulk of the snow from that small section, just so my wife and I can get out easier, but also for the rest of the neighbors. Took about half hour, but made a huge difference.

    Sure I don't have any heavy equipment to move large amounts of snow, but hitting some of the smaller problem areas with the shovel can make a big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharockus View Post
    Last time I was in Ottawa when there was a big snow storm. Only took like 3 days and all the street including residential was all cleaned up and removed. Not just plowed lol. The snow that's removed from the street is actually dropped not to far from the river. So when spring comes around, it just melts in the river.

    Edmonton...as a capital city, you need to do better. WAY better.

    Just my 2 cents
    Ottawa gets close to double the snow Edmonton does in a season and has significantly higher taxes. Edmonton could maintain the fleet necessary to clear all the streets if we raised taxes enough to pay for it.

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    Default Residential plowing to start on Wednesday

    EDMONTON — Stranded residents can breathe a sigh of relief as Edmonton road crews plan to begin blading neighbourhood streets early Wednesday morning.



    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...938/story.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    With the sand and salt that is used you don't want to dump the snow in or near the river.
    True. We use way too much of it too. On my ride to work this morning I had no problems on roads that were white, but the roads that were brown were nearly impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tharockus View Post
    Another problem is alot of contractors don't actually have a clue how to plow properly. The city doesn't even have the right equipment for god sakes lol. They've only plowed my street once.

    They didn't clean the side of the street properly, so now I have to park my truck on the snow bank. It's the only place lol.

    (On top of that, Some people have left there car on the side of the road since this summer lol, as you can see in this picture)

    Not to nitpick, but that photo is in a subdivision with double attached garages and driveways. you would need to have more than 4 vehicles (two in garage, two in driveway) before you had to park on the street. seems like overkill. I notice a lot of people fill their garage with 1000$ worth of junk and boxes, and then leave their $30K car out on the driveway/road.
    cars/vehicles that have not moved since summer can be called in to 311 and declared as abandoned. there's a motorcycle across the street from us hidden in a snowbank.

    as mentioned elsewhere, Edmonton has some of the lowest taxes in the country. you get what you pay for.
    clearing is better in sherwood park and beaumont/leduc but they have large industrial base to collect taxes from and keep residential taxes down. st albert has good clearing, but their taxes are very high. a good incentive for the creation of a single municipality!
    Last edited by nobleea; 11-01-2011 at 12:13 PM.

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    Very unfair to compare Edmonton to cities with larger taxes and snow falls. I think the city is doing well. I do not want higher taxes and am not having any problem driving around the city, and many trips have not taken much, if any, more time.

    But I do understand many people are struggling. Looking around at the number of white knuckle drivers creeping along, barely able to maintain control, and clearly uncomfortable it seems clear to me that not everyone should be on the road.

    Even if you have grown up with winter driving, have a proper vehicle and tires you might not feel comfortable in such conditions.

    It behooves you to stay off the roads or if you get out there and feel uncomfortable, find you are unable to keep up with faster traffic, maybe scared, then you should pull into a parking lot. Wait it out or throw the car around to get some confidence back.

    We don't all have to drive, I often found myself getting rides or using different vehicles when conditions were poor. And if you are too poor to buy tires...well maybe you are too poor to drive in all conditions. Din der don dat too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal View Post
    EDMONTON — Stranded residents can breathe a sigh of relief as Edmonton road crews plan to begin blading neighbourhood streets early Wednesday morning.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...938/story.html
    I wonder if the city will clear then again after another 20cm of snow falls beginning on Wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    ...... a good incentive for the creation of a single municipality!
    I think the street should be for driving, parking lots and driveways for parking, and not just in the winter. Cars create many hazards, many people die, often children, as a result of lining streets with cars, not to mention the crashes due to added congestion.

    But I would be very wary of a single municipality saving money. Winnipeg has some of the highest taxes, some studies have suggested the highest taxes of any city in North America. Their "Unicity" concept, brining many smaller towns and cities under one government has proven to be a complete failure when it comes to lowering taxes. Though there are many other benefits, lower taxes is clearly not one of them

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    As a trucker stops for a red light, a blonde catches up. She jumps out of her car, runs up to his truck, and knocks on the door.


    The trucker lowers the window, and she says "Hi, my name is Heather and you are losing some of your load."

    The trucker ignores her and proceeds down the street.

    When the truck stops for another red light, the girl catches up again.
    She jumps out of her car, runs up and knocks on the door.

    Again, the trucker lowers the window. As if they've never spoken, the blonde says brightly, "Hi my name is Heather, and you are losing some of your load!"

    Shaking his head, the trucker ignores her again and continues down the street.

    At the third red light, the same thing happens again.

    All out of breath, the blonde gets out of her car, runs up, knocks on the truck door. The trucker rolls down the window.. Again she says "Hi, my name is Heather, and you are losing some of your load!"

    When the light turns green the trucker
    revs up and races to the next light.

    When he stops this time, he hurriedly gets out of the truck, and runs back to the blonde.


    He knocks on her window, and after she lowers it, he says...


    "Hi, my name is Mark, it's winter in Edmonton and I'm driving the
    SANDING TRUCK!"
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    ^ Good 'un, Barry N.
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  69. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal View Post
    EDMONTON — Stranded residents can breathe a sigh of relief as Edmonton road crews plan to begin blading neighbourhood streets early Wednesday morning.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...938/story.html
    I wonder if the city will clear then again after another 20cm of snow falls beginning on Wednesday.
    Don't worry, they have lots of sanding trucks and mountains of sand ready and waiting.
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    Kerry Diotte and Jane Batty were on CBC this morning talking snow removal. It was very disappointing. Diotte was big on the complaints and not so much on solutions or practicalities.

    Of course then I opened the journal and saw they had a picture of him.

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  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    The major arterials are done and I still saw 3 roll overs along yellowhead trail.
    Even when the city has a road cleared, these idiots with thier 4 wheel drive,ABS equipped anything fly down the street thinking they are invincible until they hit black ice. Just like the one who flew over a guard rail westbound on 16 at the river tonight as I came in from Sherwood Park.Never mind the stupidity on the side streets where it will be March before a plow will arrive.
    Does anyone know in this city how to slow down, use signals and just a little common courtesy? This city does have the worst drivers no question
    Every day this week I'm driving on the Yellowhead past accident sites where vehicles have clearly spun off the road due to glare ice conditions and yahoos are obliviously passing accident scenes at 100K.

    The other day theres a police car with lights flashing demarking a situation up ahead beyond crest of hill. Yet another driver beside me not even slowing down despite not being able to see the accident ahead and how many lanes are blocked.

    Can't imagine what some of those drivers are thinking. But of course with that I'm wrong already..
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-01-2011 at 10:00 AM.

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    Most of the streets that I travel are packed down and are passable if you drive carefully until they are plowed. The most dangerous areas are approaching 4 way stops and the moguls.
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

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    I don't understand.. cut the city some slack.. this was NOT a normal snow fall...

    People amaze me some times.
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  74. #74

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    Another 20 to 30 centimeters of abnormal snowfall coming this week.

    One this about weather, it is consistently inconsitent...

    sorry that Mother Nature does not follow your snow removal budget spreadsheet...
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I don't understand.. cut the city some slack.. this was NOT a normal snow fall...

    People amaze me some times.
    Something we agree on. Europe essentially gets shutdown a couple weeks ago with a couple inches of snow and with all airports closed for a week.
    Trains stopped, highways all blocked.

    I think the city has done exceptionally well. While I live in the burbs I have no expectation that the burbs get done until all major thoroughfares.

    Henday, Whitemud, Yellowhead, Capilano, were all done in time for Monday AM.

    It seems as if the concept of a snow day and actually taking some time off due to inclement weather is lost. A wish for more Edmontonians to learn to role with the punches of Edmonton weather.

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    Snow clearing does usually happen promptly in Edmonton, but the quality of the job is often lacking. It's partly due to bad urban design for a city that gets 5 months of sub-zero temperatures (not enough places to pile snow) and partly because the job frequently just isn't done right - too much snow left behind after plowing, windrows left on the street instead of being pushed onto boulevards, sand dumped on top of fresh snow, etc.

  77. #77

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    ^Indeed, not enough areas to pile snow. Suburbs with narrow residential roadways that when people park on the streets the ploughs have very little room to move. Zero land lots where the houses are close together so the snow goes on the roads and pavements. Too long a gap between the city piling the snow and when it is taken away.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  78. #78

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    I also think the City has done a good job so far, with that amount of snow people just have to be a little more patient.

  79. #79

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    Further to that I wish some of the city councilors would say that back to the hoi polloi.

    Sheepishly saying "we must do better" is redonkulas. we had a major snow storm!
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  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Snow clearing does usually happen promptly in Edmonton, but the quality of the job is often lacking. It's partly due to bad urban design for a city that gets 5 months of sub-zero temperatures (not enough places to pile snow) and partly because the job frequently just isn't done right - too much snow left behind after plowing, windrows left on the street instead of being pushed onto boulevards, sand dumped on top of fresh snow, etc.
    Urban design never allowed for families with 4 vehicles and a couple junked ones sitting around on the street nor should it.

    Go down any residential street right now anywhere and its quite clear what is blocking egress. Rows of solid parked cars lining streets on each side. In some cases by people possibly bitching about lack of snow removal while their cars parked on streets instead of driveways or garages, blocks the way for snow removal or traffic in general.

    The exact same urban design worked fine in this city for decades when people would actually clear their own driveways and park there instead of everybody figuring public streets are their own private parking lot.

  81. #81

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    well and peoples scene of entitlement that the city should do "everything" for them.

    Get out.. meet your neighbors.
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  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Indeed, not enough areas to pile snow. Suburbs with narrow residential roadways that when people park on the streets the ploughs have very little room to move. Zero land lots where the houses are close together so the snow goes on the roads and pavements. Too long a gap between the city piling the snow and when it is taken away.
    There's apparently nowhere to pile it.
    The dump areas are full ???
    Here's a good idea!
    http://www.trecan.com/webe3/cost.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I don't understand.. cut the city some slack.. this was NOT a normal snow fall...

    People amaze me some times.
    Something we agree on. Europe essentially gets shutdown a couple weeks ago with a couple inches of snow and with all airports closed for a week.
    Trains stopped, highways all blocked.

    I think the city has done exceptionally well. While I live in the burbs I have no expectation that the burbs get done until all major thoroughfares.

    Henday, Whitemud, Yellowhead, Capilano, were all done in time for Monday AM.

    It seems as if the concept of a snow day and actually taking some time off due to inclement weather is lost. A wish for more Edmontonians to learn to role with the punches of Edmonton weather.
    When Portland OR got dumped on, the City had no snow removal equipment and the transit system shut down for two weeks until it melted. Some business just about went broke as everyone stayed home.
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  84. #84

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    When there's the 2'+ solid snow/ice chunk along the curb, I like it. I think it's fun to climb on top of and jump down the other side.

    There are very few things left I can enjoy as if I were 10

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBandit View Post
    When there's the 2'+ solid snow/ice chunk along the curb, I like it. I think it's fun to climb on top of and jump down the other side.

    There are very few things left I can enjoy as if I were 10
    I, too, enjoy playing in the snow. Every day I go home and see the 4ft of snow and the hills left by shovelling/plowing and just want to go out there and stand on top.

    Maybe it's time to make up a flag and claim the mountain range in the Value Village parking lot on 118th as my own.

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    On the flip side, My friend just bought a Jeep and has never had as much fun plowing into the ditches on purpose because he can. He has yet to stuck with his winch and chains at the ready to help anyone he sees. I miss my truck.
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  87. #87

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    In the west end there's plenty of places to put snow. Aldergrove just built a massive pit in their field for spring run off. Throw all the local snow in the school fields and build up a toboggan hill with it.

    You can do the same thing in La Perle, Belmead, & Callingwood. It all drains in there anyways.

    They finally grated here today. They didn't pick up the snow, they just grated and left. There's no sand down and crossing the street earlier was worse than being on a skating rink.

    There's no efficiency or coordination. If they put out signs the night before and enforced towing when people ignore the signs, then it makes it much more efficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    On the flip side, My friend just bought a Jeep and has never had as much fun plowing into the ditches on purpose because he can. He has yet to stuck with his winch and chains at the ready to help anyone he sees. I miss my truck.
    Aww, that's so nice of your friend being ready to help someone whenever he can.

  89. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    On the flip side, My friend just bought a Jeep and has never had as much fun plowing into the ditches on purpose because he can. He has yet to stuck with his winch and chains at the ready to help anyone he sees. I miss my truck.
    Is this the guy who drove across my lawn, across my neighbour's lawn & bushes and drove through the park? It took 3 people 20 minutes to reshovel all the snow that some ***** mess up when he drove through the snow piles and onto people's sidewalks.
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    More inefficiencies spotted today. 106 Av between 101 and 105 St has boulevards on both sides, and much of the land on the south side is vacant. Unfortunately, plowing crews left the snow in the middle of the road last night instead of pushing it onto the boulevards. There's too much snow that needs to be hauled away already. Any snow that can be stored beside the road should be.

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    109 st north bound curb 101 - 102 ave
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    More inefficiencies spotted today. 106 Av between 101 and 105 St has boulevards on both sides, and much of the land on the south side is vacant. Unfortunately, plowing crews left the snow in the middle of the road last night instead of pushing it onto the boulevards. There's too much snow that needs to be hauled away already. Any snow that can be stored beside the road should be.
    I watched the crews doing 91st street. Speed plowed it into the ditches but at the intersections like 34th and 39th where the curbs are they left the piles creeping into the outside lanes narrowing them down by at least a foot.

    On Tuesday at 9 pm they had a snowblower filling trucks on the 91st street AHD overpass. Understandable because you cannot throw the snow onto the AHD below BUT the snowblower was still 200meters from the overpass. Why fill trucks when you can turn the blower nozzel and blow the snow into the field beside the road?
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    [QUOTE=Doug;341827]With the sand and salt that is used you don't want to dump the snow in or near the river.[/QUOTE

    It runs off into our storm sewers anyway.

    We could use a lot less if the city would investigate snowmelt technology like Ottawa and Toronto, Newyork etc. etc. are using.
    Fewer trucks fewer wages fewer liters of gas .
    Take the Trecan to the job and let the water down the sewers.
    I know the need to sand/salt main arteries but what percentage of 5000 km of roads is that?
    We need to start thinking of efficiencies of machines and manpower.

    The city crews are doing a great job given the equipment and access they have to carry out the tasks.
    We still have nothing done around our place and the second storm /snow is approaching. They can't be everywhere at once the snow piles have them baffled right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    On the flip side, My friend just bought a Jeep and has never had as much fun plowing into the ditches on purpose because he can. He has yet to stuck with his winch and chains at the ready to help anyone he sees. I miss my truck.
    Is this the guy who drove across my lawn, across my neighbor's lawn & bushes and drove through the park? It took 3 people 20 minutes to re shovel all the snow that some ***** mess up when he drove through the snow piles and onto people's sidewalks.
    No. He 4x4's along the highways and the Henday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Urban design never allowed for families with 4 vehicles and a couple junked ones sitting around on the street nor should it.

    Go down any residential street right now anywhere and its quite clear what is blocking egress. Rows of solid parked cars lining streets on each side. In some cases by people possibly bitching about lack of snow removal while their cars parked on streets instead of driveways or garages, blocks the way for snow removal or traffic in general.

    The exact same urban design worked fine in this city for decades when people would actually clear their own driveways and park there instead of everybody figuring public streets are their own private parking lot.
    In the past the city has announced residential clearing programs and crews have put "no parking" signs on roads the day before they were to be cleared, with cars that failed to move being towed. Alternatively, there could be a general parking ban on alternate sides of the street on alternate days while residential plowing is in progress, with towing on the roads to be plowed each day. No amount of parking prohibition will fix the problem of sidewalks that are right next to the street though. There's just nowhere to put the snow when that happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    More inefficiencies spotted today. 106 Av between 101 and 105 St has boulevards on both sides, and much of the land on the south side is vacant. Unfortunately, plowing crews left the snow in the middle of the road last night instead of pushing it onto the boulevards. There's too much snow that needs to be hauled away already. Any snow that can be stored beside the road should be.
    I watched the crews doing 91st street. Speed plowed it into the ditches but at the intersections like 34th and 39th where the curbs are they left the piles creeping into the outside lanes narrowing them down by at least a foot.

    On Tuesday at 9 pm they had a snowblower filling trucks on the 91st street AHD overpass. Understandable because you cannot throw the snow onto the AHD below BUT the snowblower was still 200meters from the overpass. Why fill trucks when you can turn the blower nozzel and blow the snow into the field beside the road?
    Another one I've seen in the past: Crews were finally getting around to removing windrows from the middle of the streets downtown, but instead of simply running the snowblower down the middle of the road and loading the snow into trucks, they first had fleet of graders move the windrow from the middle of the road to the side. Total waste of time and money.

  97. #97

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    The city cannot be expected to do a good job when the people don't listen. The townhouse complex across the street from my house were getting there snow removed, well they have to move their vehicles. They move them out of the complex onto the main street which is a major bus route. So ya their snow in the complex got cleared but the main street was a scatter hit and miss mess. The cars and buses have to actually stop when they meet cause they cannot pass one another with all the snow and the once wide street is now a goat path.

    And people are complaining it is the cities fault, they are trying to do their job so MOVE YOUR VEHICLE somewhere like go to the mall or something and wait it out.

  98. #98

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    The city needs to use the 72 hour street ban. If you're parked on a main street, you will be towed.

    Snow removal in this city is abysmal. It didn't used to be this way. When snow was removed by city workers, rather than contractors, snow removal was fairly efficient, and crews often worked through the night. Snow was hauled to the river to be dumped.

    We can't move back to that model completely, but I don't know why there can't be a certain number of full time city employees in this area, supplemented with contractors. Those employees could do parks work (watering trees, for example) in summer.

  99. #99
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    ^ There's also lots of summer roadwork that could be combined with winter snow clearing to make more full time jobs for city workers. Alternatively, if the city modified the terms for contractors so they didn't get paid for substandard work they would shape up in a hurry.

  100. #100
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    How are these contractors paid? Are they guaranteed a fee up front? Does anyone from the City oversee the work and confirm that the work has been done properly? Okay, that last one is logistically impossible, but I think a lot of these cowboy operators just turn up, do a slapdash job then take the money and run - abuse the City bureaucracy, if you will.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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