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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #2301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades...
    What? Yeah it was chilly, but hardly got any snow. Were you not around in 2013, 14 and 15? Those years were between 30-50 cm of snow, mostly overnight. 2013 saw 50cm in November. I specifically remember 2014 being bad and I spent a lot of my day helping people push their cars because everyone was getting stuck in the deep snow, and I had to drive my wife to work all week (She has a little car with no ground clearance). That was also a big overnight dump. Same with November 2015, I drove my wife to work for a week. Sure last year (2016) was mild, but this November was also very mild in my opinion. I would not even think to say it was the worst November in a decades... I have yet to even break out my snowblower this year because it's quicker to shovel...

  2. #2302
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades...
    What? Yeah it was chilly, but hardly got any snow. Were you not around in 2013, 14 and 15? Those years were between 30-50 cm of snow, mostly overnight. 2013 saw 50cm in November. I specifically remember 2014 being bad and I spent a lot of my day helping people push their cars because everyone was getting stuck in the deep snow, and I had to drive my wife to work all week (She has a little car with no ground clearance). That was also a big overnight dump. Same with November 2015, I drove my wife to work for a week. Sure last year (2016) was mild, but this November was also very mild in my opinion. I would not even think to say it was the worst November in a decades... I have yet to even break out my snowblower this year because it's quicker to shovel...

    I suspect we will get lots of snow Jan/Feb, if not, the COE will have some money again..like last the last snow budget.

  3. #2303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades.
    Worst since 2013, average for the last 40 years with

    November:
    Means: 19cm snow, -4.1
    2017: ~18cm snow, -6.7 (estimate because EC doesn't have snowfall totals anymore just snow on ground which maxed at 13cm)
    2013: 44cm snow, -8.1
    2006 - 28.5 cm and - 9.6
    2003 - 28.8 cm and -7.0
    2001 - 26.3 cm and -1
    1998 - 35.2 cm and -4.2

    The problem right now isn't how much snow we got but that it's now too warm and everything is thawing and freezing.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 07-12-2017 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Found more recent numbers.

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  4. #2304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades.
    Worst since 2013, average for the last 40 years with

    November:
    Means: 19cm snow, -4.1
    2017: ~18cm snow, -6.7 (estimate because EC doesn't have snowfall totals anymore just snow on ground which maxed at 13cm)
    2013: 44cm snow, -8.1
    2006 - 28.5 cm and - 9.6
    2003 - 28.8 cm and -7.0
    2001 - 26.3 cm and -1
    1998 - 35.2 cm and -4.2

    The problem right now isn't how much snow we got but that it's now too warm and everything is thawing and freezing.
    The numbers don't always tell the story. For road conditions continual light dustings are often the worse to gloss things up and make road conditions difficult. MOST Novembers we get frequent snow/melt cycles and the snow often disappears at some point in the month. This year is different and a contiguous snow blanket throughout November, which is extremely rare. Accumulations in November often disappear in whole or in part. So the ice and snow this early in the year has resembled curling type ice more typically found later in the winter. its very rare to get such polished ice in backroads and alleys this early in the year.

    The average temps above don't tell the complete story either. Another factor would be high and low temp variance on an average basis. For instance November would commonly have +5 or higher daytime highs and sun which would melt snow. This November featured day time highs below, or around freezing. Meaning most of the snow stuck around.

    As mentioned I snowshoe. Theres been complete winters where there has been less of a carpet of snow accumulation as we've seen this early, in November (and throughout November) Indeed I got the snoeshoes out mid November, and kept them in use. Earliest ever time where I could go out regularly. in a typical November there wouldn't even be half the days where you have good enough snow cover. This November its been the entire month.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #2305
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    If the brine is applied before a snowfall and it doesn't snow for 3-4 days after the application is the brine solution still effective?
    Go ahead, speed pass me... I'll meet you at the next red light.

  6. #2306

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    It looks like they applied brine this morning, at -10 before a dusting of snow. Did absolutely no good, if anything it just made the snow stick.
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  7. #2307
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    They've put down a lot of sand on the downtown roads today due to the snow flurries. I wish they would use the brine instead.
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  8. #2308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    They've put down a lot of sand on the downtown roads today due to the snow flurries. I wish they would use the brine instead.
    It's too cold for the brine to work

    "The brine needs to be sprayed before it snows. It only works effectively above -25 C."
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ds-more-easily

  9. #2309

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    I didn't think the streets were in very good condition this morning. I don't know if it's the calcium chloride brine freezing over or what but everything is covered with a layer of ice. I didn't appreciate that any sanding had been done to compensate.

  10. #2310

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    Yeah, they were a pile of garbage today. I can't remember the last time my traction control light flicked on on Jasper Ave.
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  11. #2311
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    Conditions are not ideal, and won't be until the weather warms up some, but this is much better than the piles of brown sludge we have had in previous years after sand was dumped on top of fresh snow.

  12. #2312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Conditions are not ideal, and won't be until the weather warms up some, but this is much better than the piles of brown sludge we have had in previous years after sand was dumped on top of fresh snow.
    Frankly a little sand would be a good thing because clearly the calcium chloride by itself isn't up to the task.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...monton-streets
    Edmonton police are asking drivers to slow down and drive to conditions as collisions continue to pile up during Edmonton’s morning rush hour commute.


    Police reported 75 collisions between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m., five of which involved injuries.
    All this after Edmonton has received a measured total of just 1.8 mm of precipitation for the month (roughly equivalent to just 2 cm of snow).

    http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate...tationID=27214

    (I suspect this underestimates the true amount somewhat because it was all rather wind-blown, but in any event you can hardly say we've had a lot of snow.)

  13. #2313

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    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  14. #2314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.

  15. #2315

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    I noticed on a bike path yesterday that the edges that didn't get brine and had been dry before the snow came were mostly free of snow. What fell there blew off.

    That was not the case for the portion that was still a bit wet from the brine.
    There can only be one.

  16. #2316

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  17. #2317

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.

    I've always said the biggest mistake of snow clearing is waiting until that last ounce of snow falls to the ground.

    If they work on clearing the snow throughout the day, then there may not be as many problems with slick roads.

    The 100 plus collisions this morning is a good indicator that our roads are not being maintained properly to allow safe commuting.

  18. #2318

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.

  19. #2319

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    Road clearing here lacks the logic of any homeowner. The strategy for anybody owning property being to get the snow off the walks before it gets packed down. Speaking of simple. Normally, In Edmonton this is done extremely easily as we don't often get heavy accumulations of snow. So that even using a push broom is quite effective 90% of the time. Much easier than shovelling and much quicker. To demonstrate how easy it is I routinely clear half the block and around the corner. Takes me hardly any time at all. Trick is to not wait and to get to it before foot traffic.

    Similarly if the city just used street cleaners with heavy brushes (please no water, heh) they could get the majority of the snow off roadways and stop it sticking to roadways so it doesn't get compacted down and polished to fine curling ice. Which it is all over the city right now.

    I've lived here decades and I don't think I've ever seen the city use brushes instead of plows to clear off the roads in the winter.

    Why not?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  20. #2320

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.
    The laws of physics means at -20C or less sand does little more than polish the ice formed by vehicles idling at intersections.

    Edmonton's hick-town driving heritage "condemns Edmonton to be vanquished" and the rest of us to have to hear people's hyperbolic griping about it.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  21. #2321

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.
    The laws of physics means at -20C or less sand does little more than polish the ice formed by vehicles idling at intersections.

    Edmonton's hick-town driving heritage "condemns Edmonton to be vanquished" and the rest of us to have to hear people's hyperbolic griping about it.
    Speaking of hyperbolic... That’s a law of physics?

  22. #2322

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Road clearing here lacks the logic of any homeowner. The strategy for anybody owning property being to get the snow off the walks before it gets packed down. Speaking of simple. Normally, In Edmonton this is done extremely easily as we don't often get heavy accumulations of snow. So that even using a push broom is quite effective 90% of the time. Much easier than shovelling and much quicker. To demonstrate how easy it is I routinely clear half the block and around the corner. Takes me hardly any time at all. Trick is to not wait and to get to it before foot traffic.

    Similarly if the city just used street cleaners with heavy brushes (please no water, heh) they could get the majority of the snow off roadways and stop it sticking to roadways so it doesn't get compacted down and polished to fine curling ice. Which it is all over the city right now.

    I've lived here decades and I don't think I've ever seen the city use brushes instead of plows to clear off the roads in the winter.

    Why not?
    Agreed. I use a push-broom or very wide scoop most of the time. I also tend to go out several times during a snow storm if I'm home and keep doing a bit at a time as it falls so that people walking by don't pack it down. I see no excuse for why it takes so long for the city to get out and start clearing up the streets, and why they wait until it's over. Especially when it's been in the forecast for days...

  23. #2323

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    why wait till its over... once you get your wish to start when the snow starts flying, you'll ask, why does it cost so much. It costs so much because as you've stated, Edmonton gets very little snow, so waiting till it stops is ideal so you don't have to go over the same areas multiple times. In a major snow event, you'll see plows out early. The city also now is putting down a brine solution like they do in many other municipalities.

    Also, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why your personal driveway and sidewalk doesn't scale well to a friggen city of close to a million people that sprawls from over 2500 sqkm +

  24. #2324

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    why wait till its over... once you get your wish to start when the snow starts flying, you'll ask, why does it cost so much. It costs so much because as you've stated, Edmonton gets very little snow, so waiting till it stops is ideal so you don't have to go over the same areas multiple times. In a major snow event, you'll see plows out early. The city also now is putting down a brine solution like they do in many other municipalities.

    Also, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why your personal driveway and sidewalk doesn't scale well to a friggen city of close to a million people that sprawls from over 2500 sqkm +
    Thanks for the insight captain obvious, but I'm not talking about in one day, I'm talking about constant snow over several days. The city will wait until 3 days of snowing stops before plowing, leaving drivers with 3 days of commuting in a mess and traffic piling up. I don't really care what it costs as long as there's results.

  25. #2325
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    I posted that the salt solution would rust vehicles, looks like it's doing just that. The roads were still awful in Edmonton yesterday, back to sanding?lol

    That was not the case for the portion that was still a bit wet from the brine.
    Exactly!

  26. #2326

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    the roads haven't been awful all year.

    My lord

  27. #2327

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    why wait till its over... once you get your wish to start when the snow starts flying, you'll ask, why does it cost so much. It costs so much because as you've stated, Edmonton gets very little snow, so waiting till it stops is ideal so you don't have to go over the same areas multiple times. In a major snow event, you'll see plows out early. The city also now is putting down a brine solution like they do in many other municipalities.

    Also, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why your personal driveway and sidewalk doesn't scale well to a friggen city of close to a million people that sprawls from over 2500 sqkm +
    Thanks for the insight captain obvious, but I'm not talking about in one day, I'm talking about constant snow over several days. The city will wait until 3 days of snowing stops before plowing, leaving drivers with 3 days of commuting in a mess and traffic piling up. I don't really care what it costs as long as there's results.
    actually... they wont. There's timelines in place for when roads will start to get cleared during a larger/prolonged snow event.

  28. #2328
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    When has there been constant snow over several days this winter?

  29. #2329

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    So wait, what? 5-10cm total drop is looking a lot more like 5inches already. Do they ever get these estimates anything close to correct? people should take a snow day tomorrow. There could be a foot of the stuff by the time you wake up. This could literally be one of those snow events where vehicles with low clearance get snowlocked trying to get anywhere.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  30. #2330

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    The morning drive was interesting.

    Felt like I was driving in a snowbank for the majority of it.

    Hopefully the snow will taper off enough for the crews to come out.

    I left very early to avoid the amount of stupid that will be occurring in the next hour or so.

    For those driving downtown. Good luck.

  31. #2331

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    why wait till its over... once you get your wish to start when the snow starts flying, you'll ask, why does it cost so much. It costs so much because as you've stated, Edmonton gets very little snow, so waiting till it stops is ideal so you don't have to go over the same areas multiple times. In a major snow event, you'll see plows out early. The city also now is putting down a brine solution like they do in many other municipalities.

    Also, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out why your personal driveway and sidewalk doesn't scale well to a friggen city of close to a million people that sprawls from over 2500 sqkm +
    Thanks for the insight captain obvious, but I'm not talking about in one day, I'm talking about constant snow over several days. The city will wait until 3 days of snowing stops before plowing, leaving drivers with 3 days of commuting in a mess and traffic piling up. I don't really care what it costs as long as there's results.
    actually... they wont. There's timelines in place for when roads will start to get cleared during a larger/prolonged snow event.
    In other cities, they get ahead of the game and start plowing as soon as it starts falling. Even having trucks deployed at staging areas before the snow touches the ground.

    If we follow the COE's logic, if they wait for the snow to stop and you get a week long storm, they would complete the plowing by August...

    I thought we had this same discussion a few years ago when we had back to back storms and in the interlude, the COE could not complete the plowing. They were to have changed their policy then. I'll look up the posts.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  32. #2332

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    #1927 Nov 28 2014 as an example

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wilson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I don't know why the won't begin blading until they have 50mm of snow when they know more is falling and instead put down sand and then hours later, plow that same snow plus sand to the curb.

    Makes as much sense as using treadless grooved summer tires on buses on winter roads.
    I'd have to agree, where's the logic?
    Who has the job of running around this city with the almighty ruler measuring the snow depth and waiting, 47mm, 48mm, 49mm, 50mm, 51mm! It's OK, you can stop sanding and now start blading BUT only blade down to 50mm as we have a policy to leave a 50mm base on residential streets so just take off the top ONE millimeter!

    I should say nothing because some posters suggest that these important decisions should not be made by "unqualified people".

    Between you and me Frank, I think we have more common sense than those running the gong show.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  33. #2333

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    #1950

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Yes.

    Populist politics.

    So you are saying that pleasing the peasants is the probable pretext by plotting privileged politicians whose prerogative is producing ploughing policies to procure political points at the polls in preference to procedures by professional people practiced in properly prepared plans that promote prompt plowing of the paramount pathways that provide the peak productivity of the populous who seek passage past piles of precipitation that prevent their progress to their preferred place?
    Precisely.
    ^ predictable...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  34. #2334

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    Question:

    Has the COE declared a snow route ban yet? I thought that that policy had changed to be more proactive, rather than giving drivers a 72 hour notice after the snow fell. There is no reason what anyone would need more that a 24 hour notice and it could be done as a storm approaches.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  35. #2335

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    CoE was very busy cleaning the bike paths in the core. The streets? Not so much.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  36. #2336

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    City of Edmonton
    @CityofEdmonton


    We're on it! 211 people and 118 pieces of equipment are out clearing bike lanes, roads, and sidewalks this morning. Please ride/drive to conditions. #yegwx#yegtraffic
    .

  37. #2337

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    CoE was very busy cleaning the bike paths in the core. The streets? Not so much.
    I noticed that this morning. While I was driving through the snowbanks I noticed the bike paths were getting cleared.

    I guess for those 5 people that use their bikes in the winter, that was more important?

  38. #2338

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    It's a lot easier to clean a surface when you don't have to deal with all those pesky people & vehicles getting in the way, I guess?
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  39. #2339

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    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...

  40. #2340

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    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  41. #2341

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    FWIW I flicked on the Walterdale Bridge north cam at 7:30am and there was snow clearing on the multi-use walkway. Good thing, because not long after I saw people walking northward on it.

    But, this thread will collect the mouthy old know-it-alls anyway so have at it...
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  42. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    75% of sidewalks were cleared on my from 105st-101st
    100% of bike lanes cleared by the City, bravo!
    Hard to tell with the roadways, but walking home last night around 9pm there were some machines out. They really should be able to get to the hills, 109st, 99st and Jasper before 630am though.
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  43. #2343

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    75% of sidewalks were cleared on my from 105st-101st
    100% of bike lanes cleared by the City, bravo!
    Hard to tell with the roadways, but walking home last night around 9pm there were some machines out. They really should be able to get to the hills, 109st, 99st and Jasper before 630am though.
    Walterdale hill was plowed this morning. The downslope was still a little tricky but 109st not touched at all unfortunately.

  44. #2344

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    Yeah, my best friend left my place at ~930 last night & commented about how much snow was on her vehicle (I park U/G) & that there were bladers on 97 Ave & it was the brightest spot on my crummy commute this morning, especially considering how terrible the rest of the major arteries are.

    I had thought that given that I commute on primary arteries (live in Oliver, work off Argyll Road) for ~90% of my commute that I'd be mostly immune to the gongshow which is snow removal in Edmonton, but I guess not.

    Thank god for Xdrive, traction control & winter tires as they made commute more an excercise in patience than anything else. Thank god I got a decent winter car.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  45. #2345

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.

  46. #2346

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    Keep going. At some point, you'll eventually be close to the actual right number.

  47. #2347

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    In my limited sample outside this morning, it seems that most people were caught off-guard by the snow too, despite its onset being on the news, unable to even spend an extra minute clearing the snow off their vehicles before rushing to line up in traffic.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  48. #2348
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.
    You should get out more. I see far more than that on my walk to work on a single route.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  49. #2349

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    I guess nobody was getting the sarcasm.

  50. #2350

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    You're only saying its sarcasm now because you've been called out.

  51. #2351

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    75% of sidewalks were cleared on my from 105st-101st
    100% of bike lanes cleared by the City, bravo!
    Hard to tell with the roadways, but walking home last night around 9pm there were some machines out. They really should be able to get to the hills, 109st, 99st and Jasper before 630am though.
    Walterdale hill was plowed this morning. The downslope was still a little tricky but 109st not touched at all unfortunately.
    Seems ridiculous to have 100% of bike lanes cleared whilst major thoroughfares are untouched.

    CoE has 118 pieces of equipment out. Ottawa, similar size after a similar snowfall, had over 300 pieces of equipment out.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ures-to-plunge

    https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/cle...torm-1.3719299

    On the plus side, I don't think they're using brine and focusing instead on plowing which makes sense to me given the conditions and temperature forecasts.

  52. #2352

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    You're only saying its sarcasm now because you've been called out.
    No, because I don't know the real numbers.

    But even if the numbers are higher, it doesn't compare to the number of motorists does it?

    I do a lot of driving in my work, so when I see conditions like this, it's not a lot of fun.

    If I was a cyclist, I wouldn't think anything of it.

  53. #2353

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    In other cities, they get ahead of the game and start plowing as soon as it starts falling. Even having trucks deployed at staging areas before the snow touches the ground.
    PRT, the "they" you reference in your quote is Cliff's Towing (and others). Passed a few deployed at 'fishing holes'on my commute, apparently well aware of CoE policy on clearing.....
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  54. #2354
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.
    LOL, if that!

  55. #2355

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    In other cities, they get ahead of the game and start plowing as soon as it starts falling. Even having trucks deployed at staging areas before the snow touches the ground.
    PRT, the "they" you reference in your quote is Cliff's Towing (and others). Passed a few deployed at 'fishing holes'on my commute, apparently well aware of CoE policy on clearing.....
    No I mean snow plows and sanding trucks deployed on highways and arterial on the eve of a snow storm.

    I know the towing trucks park in problem areas to profit from accidents and stuck drivers. Maybe the COE can take a clue from the private sector.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-01-2018 at 10:52 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  56. #2356

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    Hello Lady, It was sarcasm. Obviously, as someone who likes fake news, you gobbled that right up!

  57. #2357

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post

    In other cities, they get ahead of the game and start plowing as soon as it starts falling. Even having trucks deployed at staging areas before the snow touches the ground.
    PRT, the "they" you reference in your quote is Cliff's Towing (and others). Passed a few deployed at 'fishing holes'on my commute, apparently well aware of CoE policy on clearing.....
    No I mean snow plows and sanding trucks deployed on highways and arterial on the eve of a snow storm.
    They do... Not sure what city you live in.

  58. #2358

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.
    LOL, if that!
    Someone at my work actually called 311 to complain, (no it wasn't me ), and were advised that over 1000 cyclists commute in the winter.

  59. #2359

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    75% of sidewalks were cleared on my from 105st-101st
    100% of bike lanes cleared by the City, bravo!
    Hard to tell with the roadways, but walking home last night around 9pm there were some machines out. They really should be able to get to the hills, 109st, 99st and Jasper before 630am though.
    Walterdale hill was plowed this morning. The downslope was still a little tricky but 109st not touched at all unfortunately.
    Seems ridiculous to have 100% of bike lanes cleared whilst major thoroughfares are untouched.

    CoE has 118 pieces of equipment out. Ottawa, similar size after a similar snowfall, had over 300 pieces of equipment out.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ures-to-plunge

    https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/cle...torm-1.3719299

    On the plus side, I don't think they're using brine and focusing instead on plowing which makes sense to me given the conditions and temperature forecasts.
    All those bike lanes (and multi-use paths, plus sidewalks at transit centres and along parks might be 10 pieces of equipment? there's a whole lot less acreage of bike/ped space to clear than roadways.

    It did seem odd that I didn't notice a single arterial on my rounds this morning that had evidence of being plowed. 155 ave, 66st, 118 ave, Ft Road (the south bit), then the north edge of downtown. Nothing that I saw, other than maybe a little sand mixed into the snow.

    I would think that rather than try to do each road really well a better approach would be to make really quick passes, even just one lane would be great especially the curb lane on bus routes.
    There can only be one.

  60. #2360

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    Well that went over my head.

  61. #2361

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    "Plowing starts when approximately 3 cm of snow has accumulated on the main roads and more snow is forecasted. Regular maintenance plowing is done when snow accumulation is less than 10 cm."

    https://www.edmonton.ca/transportati...ain-roads.aspx

  62. #2362

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    I get the feeling that we did get some plowing overnight, but because of how fast and hard the snow fell, the crews just aren't able to keep up.

    It's still snowing out there.

    I had little problems getting to work other than just trying to get through the thick snow on the roads, but the drive home is going to be very tricky.

    Even if I leave the office tonight at 6 or 7, it might still take me an hour to get home.

  63. #2363

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    Maybe, but I didn't see any windrows along the curb either, which I would expect if they had been doing actual plowing. I didn't find roads were that bad, although I wasn't in the peak direction most of my trips. Speeds were 40 in 50 zones and 45-50 60 zones and I didn't see anyone slide through an intersection or spin out too badly trying to start.
    There can only be one.

  64. #2364

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    I couldn't drive past 40 where I was driving because of the drifts.

    With all the cars driving on them all day, it might be a bit better.

    Just wish it still wasn't snowing.

    If it had stopped it would be easier to drive home tonight.

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    Comparisons to snow clearing in the eastern cities don't really work. Ottawa, for example gets twice as much snow as us over a shorter period of time. They have no choice but to spend the money and start clearing mid storm. They also tend to be denser with fewer km's of road to clear for the population than us. Further they can keep all their equipment working for much of the winter while we have to keep them on retainer and/or compete with the the private sector when we do get a storm.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  66. #2366

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Oh I know, I saw 3 of the specialized doodads this morning on bike routes, but no plows on Jasper Ave, 109 St, 99 St. & all of them clearly hadn't been worked prior to rush hour.
    75% of sidewalks were cleared on my from 105st-101st
    100% of bike lanes cleared by the City, bravo!
    Hard to tell with the roadways, but walking home last night around 9pm there were some machines out. They really should be able to get to the hills, 109st, 99st and Jasper before 630am though.
    Walterdale hill was plowed this morning. The downslope was still a little tricky but 109st not touched at all unfortunately.
    Seems ridiculous to have 100% of bike lanes cleared whilst major thoroughfares are untouched.

    CoE has 118 pieces of equipment out. Ottawa, similar size after a similar snowfall, had over 300 pieces of equipment out.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ures-to-plunge

    https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/mobile/cle...torm-1.3719299

    On the plus side, I don't think they're using brine and focusing instead on plowing which makes sense to me given the conditions and temperature forecasts.
    All those bike lanes (and multi-use paths, plus sidewalks at transit centres and along parks might be 10 pieces of equipment? there's a whole lot less acreage of bike/ped space to clear than roadways.

    It did seem odd that I didn't notice a single arterial on my rounds this morning that had evidence of being plowed. 155 ave, 66st, 118 ave, Ft Road (the south bit), then the north edge of downtown. Nothing that I saw, other than maybe a little sand mixed into the snow.

    I would think that rather than try to do each road really well a better approach would be to make really quick passes, even just one lane would be great especially the curb lane on bus routes.
    Yes, well Ottawa seems to manage to clear thoroughfares, residential roads, lanes, and all sidewalks within less than 24 hours.

    https://ottawa.ca/en/residents/trans...er-maintenance
    When roads get plowed
    Snow removal is based on a road-priority system, with high-use roads and emergency and transit routes cleared first.
    Major roads, arterials and major collector roads: Plows are deployed at the start of accumulation.
    After the last snowflake falls:
    Major roads, arterials and major collectors: Within four hours
    Roads will not be bare pavement during a storm.
    Minor collector roads: Within six hours
    Residential roads and lanes: Within 16 hours
    Under extreme winter storm conditions (i.e. those that exceed normal conditions), snow and ice control operations will be carried out based on the capacity of resources in as continuous a manner as practicable. This will give crews the flexibility to provide relief in residential areas while simultaneously maintaining and clearing priority roads.

    When sidewalks get cleared
    After the last snowflake falls:
    Sidewalks in the downtown core: Within 6 hours
    Downtown residential sidewalks: Within 12 hours
    Residential sidewalks: Within 16 hours
    Intersections and pedestrian crossings: Within 16 hours
    Bus stops: Within 24 hours after clean up
    Having lived in Ontario, I can tell you that the roads get cleared to pavement--even residential roads.

    Moreover, each of Ottawa and Edmonton budget roughly the same amount annually for snow removal! Both cities have similar winter temperatures but Ottawa averages almost twice as much snow (223 cm vs 123 cm). Someone's not getting value for money here.

    https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/budge...et/budget-2018
    https://www.edmonton.ca/city_governm...20Services.pdf

  67. #2367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Comparisons to snow clearing in the eastern cities don't really work. Ottawa, for example gets twice as much snow as us over a shorter period of time. They have no choice but to spend the money and start clearing mid storm. They also tend to be denser with fewer km's of road to clear for the population than us. Further they can keep all their equipment working for much of the winter while we have to keep them on retainer and/or compete with the the private sector when we do get a storm.
    The comparison to Ottawa is perfectly valid. See my other post for details but I'll just add here that each city has almost exactly the same population density.

    Both Ottawa and Edmonton budget the same amount annually for snow clearing. One city delivers, the other doesn't.
    Last edited by OffWhyte; 26-01-2018 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Fixed punctuation

  68. #2368
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    Wow, it snowed during a winter month. What to do, what to do..lol

  69. #2369
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.
    LOL, if that!
    Someone at my work actually called 311 to complain, (no it wasn't me ), and were advised that over 1000 cyclists commute in the winter.
    Let's see, ten per day times one hundred wintery days equals one thousand. lol

  70. #2370

    Default

    I think you'll find that figure to be daily.

  71. #2371

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I think you'll find that figure to be daily.
    At 1000 people that's ~0.13% of the currently employed population in Edmonton.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  72. #2372

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    There's only a handful of kms of bike lanes. There's thousands (maybe even 10's of thousands) of kms of roads.

  73. #2373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    a lot more than 5 people bike to work in the winter.... and mind come as a surprise, but different equipment is used to clear sidewalks and bike lanes than roadways...
    Ok, 10.
    LOL, if that!
    Someone at my work actually called 311 to complain, (no it wasn't me ), and were advised that over 1000 cyclists commute in the winter.
    Let's see, ten per day times one hundred wintery days equals one thousand. lol
    Bingo!🌞

  74. #2374

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    From the City of Edmonton twitter account:
    Quote Originally Posted by City of Edmonton Twitter
    Five numbers and four words to live by as your City moves the snow today:


    211 staff working
    72 plows, 17 graders & 16 sanders on the roads
    1 o'clock a.m when plowing started
    Those 4 words to live by: Drive to road conditions!

  75. #2375
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    Was in the 98 Ave gong show this morning - 1/2 hour in and nowehere near the hill, did a U-turn and spent the next 1/2 hour returning home.

    Maybe nothing more could have been done, but it was a parking lot!
    ... gobsmacked

  76. #2376

    Default

    Looking out my office window right on Jasper Avenue.

    No signs of plows.

  77. #2377

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    In Ottawa they use more truck front mounted plows and front end loaders with big blades that move on residential roads at 25 to 35 kph. Not trucks with little belly plows and sloth like graders creeping down roads. Graders are for precision unlike the floating blade of a front end loader that can also stack snow
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  78. #2378

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    Probably a stupid idea and don't hesitate to tell me.

    But...on days like this, of which there are just a few each year, the city should have all their healthy employees out with shovels. It won't help roads other than that there would be fewer city employees driving downtown, but have them go shovel out sidewalks, curb cuts and crosswalks somewhere in their own districts.
    There can only be one.

  79. #2379

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    In Ottawa they use more truck front mounted plows and front end loaders with big blades that move on residential roads at 25 to 35 kph. Not trucks with little belly plows and sloth like graders creeping down roads. Graders are for precision unlike the floating blade of a front end loader that can also stack snow
    Graders are ok for pulling out windrows for removal but they don't make much sense for anything else. We could probably double the snow removal budget just with the savings of not damaging curbs with grades.
    There can only be one.

  80. #2380

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Probably a stupid idea and don't hesitate to tell me.

    But...on days like this, of which there are just a few each year, the city should have all their healthy employees out with shovels. It won't help roads other than that there would be fewer city employees driving downtown, but have them go shovel out sidewalks, curb cuts and crosswalks somewhere in their own districts.
    I remember we used to have city workers plowing and I can tell you, the snow clearing was much more efficient than the service we get now.

  81. #2381

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    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.

  82. #2382

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Probably a stupid idea and don't hesitate to tell me.

    But...on days like this, of which there are just a few each year, the city should have all their healthy employees out with shovels. It won't help roads other than that there would be fewer city employees driving downtown, but have them go shovel out sidewalks, curb cuts and crosswalks somewhere in their own districts.
    I remember we used to have city workers plowing and I can tell you, the snow clearing was much more efficient than the service we get now.
    We still have city employees plowing.

  83. #2383

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    It couldn't be all of them, and yes they have other work to do.. but there's a lot of work that can wait a day while a day's delay in snow clearing can make a huge difference. Office workers should be able to shovel a little snow.
    There can only be one.

  84. #2384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    It couldn't be all of them, and yes they have other work to do.. but there's a lot of work that can wait a day while a day's delay in snow clearing can make a huge difference. Office workers should be able to shovel a little snow.
    Rather than chasing desperate and ultimately unmanageable solutions the city's time would be better spent learning how other cities are able to do so much better.

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    The reality is that bike lanes, sidewalks, roadways all need appropriate cleaning and maintenance from snow on a day like today. I toured much of Downtown this morning and concur in full that roadways did not get enough clearing or attention before the morning rush. Unacceptable.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    Some of them are on here, so good idea..

  87. #2387

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    Some of them are on here, so good idea..
    He shoots, he scores!!!

  88. #2388

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    Some of them are on here, so good idea..
    He shoots, he scores!!!
    He put it in his own net. It's still a score, but for the wrong team.

  89. #2389

    Default

    Maybe all the people waiting in traffic could grab a shovel from their trunks and lend a hand!
    Folks whinging about it on various chat boards too!

    Slackers...

    #WheresYourShovel
    Last edited by Spudly; 26-01-2018 at 03:30 PM.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  90. #2390

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadzia2000 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by h.l. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by medwards View Post
    yes, lets get city office staff out shoveling sidewalks... Brilliant idea. Not like they are doing anything useful anyways.
    some of them are on here, so good idea..
    he shoots, he scores!!!
    lol! 😊

  92. #2392

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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    classic
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  93. #2393

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    The roads were as bad on the way home as they were on the way in. Garbage. A couple intersections on 99 were polished so smooth even my winters on an AWD car had enough trouble staying straight my traction control kicked in.

    That being said, I was fortunate to be on the roads with 90% considerate drivers & only a couple morons.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  94. #2394

    Default

    I was out in my vehicle a lot today, packing down the snow where ever I went. Folks, no need to thank me.

    Actually, except for the repeated gridlock, I had no problem driving anywhere. (Also AWD and snow tires - Subaru did justice fine so I don’t know what other people’s problems were but they sure stalled traffic flow. And the people that didn’t even bother to sweep the snow off their vehicles and so just crawl along are real nuisances - just adding impediments to everyone’s day.)
    Last edited by KC; 26-01-2018 at 04:48 PM.

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    Travelled from 23 Ave to 114 Ave and back today through a central route (99St/98 Ave/109 St - chosen to avoid any serious gradients) and would say that people were driving sensibly, even courteously, in general. One or two idiots of course, but in general it was pretty uneventful. Took a little more time, but that was okay.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    I'm pressed to understand why Winnipeg with a network of 1400 km of roadway has over 400 pieces of equipment at work , while Edmonton who calls itself a winter city has barely 200 with a network of roads over 1000km larger.Edmonton with larger area, larger tax base has 200 fewer pieces at work. Parking in a banned area gets you towed and $150 bucks poorer.No warnings nor fooling around. The city of Winnipeg is responsible for sidewalks they own,unlike Edmonton who lumps it on to the home owners. And Winnipegers actually ***** because it's not done fast enough.LOLOL They have NO CLUE how much they have. Sidewalks,residential,back alleys and ever other roads in Winnipeg gets plowed. Period.LOLOLOL I feel sorry for Edmontonians who actually believe this is the correct method of maintaining roadways.Imagine....a residential,alley and sidewalk down to pavement....after every major snowfall. NOT HERE!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL 4x4's and skis are the only way to navigate the backwoods roadways of this town.Oh, for those who will call out the TAX card, the compatible rate on a home the same as mine in a similar area is about $15 a month more there than here.Damn,for an extra $180 a year, I'd GLADLY pay it for a winter of CORRECT road maintenance.
    Last edited by cnr67; 27-01-2018 at 12:14 PM.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Haven't you learned? For roadways and residential streets, we apply the "God snow removal policy." God put it there, God can take it away. Atheists call it Spring. It is not our fault it arrives sometime in May!

    Unless, of course, it is a network of ill planned bike lanes...then they get bare pavement immediately. One flake, and the red lights flash, alarm bells ring out, and a hoard of umpa loompas gooble gobble to the streets to fix it...

    It's kind of like San Diego when it rains. The umpa loompas rush out with rolls of the quicker picker upper to remove those offensive puddles from the landscape. My God! The ruined picnics and yoga sessions!!! TRAVISTY I TELLS YA!

    Get with the program cnr67. Sheesh.
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

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    I left work early yesterday, so fortunately was able to catch a bus home. My wife, on the other hand, left at her usual rush hour time, and waited half an hour for a bus from DT before giving up and walking home. (Keep in mind that the routes we take home are very high-frequency and she never has to wait much longer than 5 minutes on a normal day for a bus.)

    ETS later tweeted that buses could be delayed "up to 60 minutes" due to the road conditions...
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

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    Many of the delays are likely due to ETS buses having issues getting up hills, which I witnessed on the roads crossing the river into downtown. Perhaps ETS should invest in some winter tires.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Haven't you learned? For roadways and residential streets, we apply the "God snow removal policy." God put it there, God can take it away. Atheists call it Spring. It is not our fault it arrives sometime in May!

    Unless, of course, it is a network of ill planned bike lanes...then they get bare pavement immediately. One flake, and the red lights flash, alarm bells ring out, and a hoard of umpa loompas gooble gobble to the streets to fix it...

    It's kind of like San Diego when it rains. The umpa loompas rush out with rolls of the quicker picker upper to remove those offensive puddles from the landscape. My God! The ruined picnics and yoga sessions!!! TRAVISTY I TELLS YA!

    Get with the program cnr67. Sheesh.
    My oppologies to you sir. ...I lost my head imaging a roadway NOT choked in ruts and ice. Please forgive me for being obtuse.... I'll get my quinine and be ok.....
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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