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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #2701
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think they're still aldermen in St. Albert.
    Not according to the city's website.

    https://stalbert.ca/cosa/leadership/council/profiles/

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  2. #2702

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    Wow so city administration HID an internal memo stating the damage of the calcium chloride. Heads are going to roll!

  3. #2703
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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Wow so city administration HID an internal memo stating the damage of the calcium chloride. Heads are going to roll!
    I posted how damaging this was, anyone could look it up, we just happen to work with concrete.. Watch how many lamp posts have to be replaced where they pulled this [email protected] around them!
    LOL..good old Edmonton

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    I will always find sand disgusting. Makes our city look filthy during the winter. After driving today it is obvious the city has cut was back on the de-icer and is back to using tons of sand.

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    Funny how so many other major cities seem to use salt, are the all wrong?

  6. #2706

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    The problem with using salt in Edmonton is we have very little rain in the year compared to other cities to delute and wash the salt away. Compounding the problem is the heavy clay soils prevent good drainage. Both combine to kill vegetation, trees and lawns.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  7. #2707

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    I will always find sand disgusting. Makes our city look filthy during the winter. After driving today it is obvious the city has cut was back on the de-icer and is back to using tons of sand.
    Trying to make Edmonton look attractive at street level is a lost cause. Better to focus on safety and efficiency.

  8. #2708
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    Why do we continue to go around in circles debating whether melting snow with salts or trying to make it less slippery with abrasives is the less-worse option? They both suck. The right way to deal with frozen precipitation is to scrape it off and haul it away (major roads) or pile it on the boulevards until spring (residential roads). Only use abrasives (in very cold weather) or salt (in warmer weather) when there is adhered ice that can't be plowed off.

  9. #2709
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    What do you think this is Winnipeg or something? We wanna be like Calgary. Let the chinooks melt it off, but we’re not quite there yet. ( I wish we could hire the guy that runs Winnipeg and make him our own. They even clear all the sidewalks too. People complain to the city because their sidewalk isn’t done yet. lol)

  10. #2710

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    We do also remove the snow, titanium48...

  11. #2711
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ... The right way to deal with frozen precipitation is to scrape it off and haul it away (major roads) or pile it on the boulevards until spring (residential roads). Only use abrasives (in very cold weather) or salt (in warmer weather) when there is adhered ice that can't be plowed off.
    Unless it quickly warms up, scraping snow off roadways just turns them to ice. That's why I loved the brine (though temperatures may well be at its outer limit of effectiveness this week).
    ... gobsmacked

  12. #2712

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    This thread will never get renamed: Sand and the city streets.

    The brine or whatever it would be called (that the new chemicals create) nicely smooths the ice and it sure seems like the city has cut back on sanding after snowfalls.
    Last edited by KC; 12-02-2019 at 10:18 AM.

  13. #2713
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    No kidding. We have a car wash close by and they are dolling out sand by the teaspoon at that corner.
    Noah's ark was built by volunteers...... The Titanic was built by professionals.

  14. #2714

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    the brine isn't being deployed currently, because its too damn cold. What you are seeing is hard packing of the snow into ice/black ice. Right now you can really notice the difference between those with winter tires, and those on spring/summer/fall tires that are not meant for these conditions (even if CNR67 tries to tell you otherwise through his anecdotal experience of 100 years)

  15. #2715

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    I can't understand the frustration with brine and its effects on vehicles. Most vehicles today are not well built and will require repairs at significant cost prior to rust being a serious issue (other than mufflers which get changed anyway) Cars should have proper undercoating which I think limits the problem in anycase. People should use commonsense as well and limit their vehicle use in conditions where the brine has been applied, its quite obvious where. Finally, I see lots of drivers here that don't hesitate to hit puddles at top speed thus spraying brine water that is then more likely to impact peoples vehicle undercarriage.

    The brine has worked exceedingly well at appropriate temps.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I can't understand the frustration with brine and its effects on vehicles. Most vehicles today are not well built and will require repairs at significant cost prior to rust being a serious issue (other than mufflers which get changed anyway) Cars should have proper undercoating which I think limits the problem in anycase. People should use commonsense as well and limit their vehicle use in conditions where the brine has been applied, its quite obvious where. Finally, I see lots of drivers here that don't hesitate to hit puddles at top speed thus spraying brine water that is then more likely to impact peoples vehicle undercarriage.

    The brine has worked exceedingly well at appropriate temps.

    Agree 100 percent

  17. #2717
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    Mois auci. I accept the city may have felt that minimum temperatures after the last snowfall would have exceeded the threshold where the brine would be effective and so opted to blade the streets.

    But long ago and not far away, the city also used to heat gravel so it would imbed into the ice inevitably left after blading was complete - especially at intersections.

    It's part II of that blading strategy that seems to have been missed.
    ... gobsmacked

  18. #2718

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    In decades of driving I’ve always found sand and thus some last resort stopping traction to the side of the polished tracks along roads and at intersections. In the last couple years it seems to me that the sand is absent. Ice/black ice/ hard pack blankets intersections and there simply isn’t anything there for tires to grip.

  19. #2719

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    In decades of driving I’ve always found sand and thus some last resort stopping traction to the side of the polished tracks along roads and at intersections. In the last couple years it seems to me that the sand is absent. Ice/black ice/ hard pack blankets intersections and there simply isn’t anything there for tires to grip.
    Theres a copious lack of sand this year on roadways and even at intersections and imo is also having an impact on pedestrians. People walking have to penguin walk on curling ice and its harder to do when you get older. When falling down and injuries are much riskier and life altering. This happening way too much in the city. There should be sand/gravel at intersections, but for pedestrians as well, and I think there is complete oversight on pedestrians requiring traction as well. I wear the best possible foot wear and it isn't enough. I've tried the ice cleats that you strap on as well and those things are awful. Poorly constructed, they don't stay on, they don't stay tight, the bolts actually come off, quickly, and when they are slipping off they actually cause a hazard as you don't expect to suddenly be walking without them. (you don't feel it or see it (most are black) until you slip and then realize the cleat(s) has come off. Then you backtrack to go looking for it, so you can throw the pair in the trash.


    We live in a society that says people should have the best possible traction available when driving but that has substandard footwear for pedestrians. People here told me to try the ice cleats. They don't work. I've yet to find any product that does, and reviews of these strap on cleats are usually scathing.

    It seems a person has to go into mountain climbing quality to get something reliable to put on your feet.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  20. #2720

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I can't understand the frustration with brine and its effects on vehicles. Most vehicles today are not well built and will require repairs at significant cost prior to rust being a serious issue (other than mufflers which get changed anyway) Cars should have proper undercoating which I think limits the problem in anycase. People should use commonsense as well and limit their vehicle use in conditions where the brine has been applied, its quite obvious where. Finally, I see lots of drivers here that don't hesitate to hit puddles at top speed thus spraying brine water that is then more likely to impact peoples vehicle undercarriage.
    .
    Are you really serious???

    Cars are far better built than the rust buckets built in the 1960's, 70's and 80's. I remember a girl down our street who bought a new 1974 Camaro and within 3 years she had rust holes in her door and fenders that you could put your fist through. By the time she paid off the 4 year of payments, the car had only about 40K miles on it and it looked like a wreck. She had to replace the transmission, the engine burned old and the muffler had big holes in it. Same for a neighbours Plymouth Cricket, a friends Honda Civic, Datsuns, Chevy Vegas, Chevettes (Shovittes), Ford Pintos, Hyundai Pony's, Chevy X-body and other rust buckets.

    https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/why-...s-they-used-to
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...-destroyed-gm/

    New cars have better steel, stainless mufflers, plastic bumpers and fender wells, galvanized bodies, better paint and primers, sealants and better body designs.

    Most cars don't show any significant rusting for 10 years unless you buy a Mazda, IMHO.


    Your suggestion that undercoating (ie rubberized) only causes more rust.

    If you buy a new car and get Rust Check or Krown coating and change the oil regularly, cars need little maintenance and can last a decade or more.

    Are you really serious in stating that "Most vehicles today are not well built", or were you not around years ago?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-02-2019 at 12:33 PM.
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  21. #2721

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I can't understand the frustration with brine and its effects on vehicles. Most vehicles today are not well built and will require repairs at significant cost prior to rust being a serious issue (other than mufflers which get changed anyway) Cars should have proper undercoating which I think limits the problem in anycase. People should use commonsense as well and limit their vehicle use in conditions where the brine has been applied, its quite obvious where. Finally, I see lots of drivers here that don't hesitate to hit puddles at top speed thus spraying brine water that is then more likely to impact peoples vehicle undercarriage.
    .
    Are you really serious???

    Cars are far better built than the rust buckets built in the 1960's, 70's and 80's. I remember a girl down our street who bought a new 1974 Camaro and within 3 years she had rust holes in her door and fenders that you could put your fist through. By the time she paid off the 4 year of payments, the car had only about 40K miles on it and it looked like a wreck. She had to replace the transmission, the engine burned old and the muffler had big holes in it. Same for a neighbours Plymouth Cricket, a friends Honda Civic, Datsuns, Chevy Vegas, Chevettes (Shovittes), Ford Pintos, Hyundai Pony's, Chevy X-body and other rust buckets.

    https://autoexpert.com.au/posts/why-...s-they-used-to
    https://www.popularmechanics.com/car...-destroyed-gm/

    New cars have better steel, stainless mufflers, plastic bumpers and fender wells, galvanized bodies, better paint and primers, sealants and better body designs.

    Most cars don't show any significant rusting for 10 years unless you buy a Mazda, IMHO.


    Your suggestion that undercoating (ie rubberized) only causes more rust.

    If you buy a new car and get Rust Check or Krown coating and change the oil regularly, cars need little maintenance and can last a decade or more.

    Are you really serious in stating that "Most vehicles today are not well built", or were you not around years ago?
    I never buy the right vehicles I guess. The last reliable vehicle I had was a Saturn, but they went out of business not selling enough of them because the damn things lasted.

    I've never had one vehicle that lasted long enough for rust to even be an issue. I make a point of driving vehicles to their last legs as well.

    I don't want throwaway vehicles but I get it every time.

    Undercoating is problematic if improperly or late applied, or with misuse of vehicles like I described above.


    Hey, if you want to save me from the horrendous crapshoot shell game that is vehicle ownership is then point me in that direction at an affordable price. But I'll still walk out of the dealership with a relative lemon. I've rarely known anything other when it comes to vehicles.

    Best car I ever had was that Saturn. Put 400K on it. It was cheap, good gas economy, reliable, no significant repairs. Soon as they make a vehicle like that its gone.

    I disagree that vehicles are more reliable today. Vested interests will tell you that in studies, they are part of the industry. Vehicles today have been over complicated with so many electronic additions and on board systems that are subject to breaking down. Additionally todays vehicles cost a hell of a lot more to fix and no longer backyard capable fixes. Vehicle ownership is a worst investment today than ever. That you think this is better means you just bought the hype.

    I would walk away from vehicle ownership tomorrow, and sing halleluiah if Edmonton had decent Transit options.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-02-2019 at 12:51 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  22. #2722
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Most vehicles today are not well built
    You've said this several times in the past, and those were incorrect statements as well (pretty sure I corrected you at least once, as well). Vehicles today are far MORE reliable than cars of the past. When's the last time you heard of someone's engine blowing or transmission cratering? It's almost unheard of today, yet was a fairly common occurrence in the past (hence the occasional run-down transmission shop you'll see rotting away in industrial areas). Really the only caveat to the increase in vehicle quality and reliability is that vehicles come with a lot more bells and whistles these days, and therefore there's more things to break or need maintenance. But the main aspects of a gasoline powered car today (engine, transmission, suspension, chassis/frame etc) are all far and away more reliable and built better today than they have in the past.

    A big part of the reason why American made cars lost massive market share to Japanese brands is because the Japanese brands were so much more reliable over time. The other manufacturers were forced to up their own game, as well. But today even the most unreliable Land Rover or Jaguar is probably better built and more reliable than a Tercel or Civic from the 90's.

    https://www.nola.com/business/index....ality_rel.html

    The newfound emphasis on quality has closed the gap between best and worst in the industry. In 1998, J.D. Power and Associates, which surveys owners about trouble with their cars after three years, found an industry average of 278 problems per 100 vehicles. By this year, the number fell to 132.
    That article is from 2012, and it's likely that the trend has only continued.

    But please, return to your regular schedule of taking a giant dump on anything and everything because you seem to think it makes you an authority on everything.

  23. #2723
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    @ Replacement. Buy the spiked cleats at Costco. I've used them the last three years (same ones) and they're still good - even on solid ice. In the rare event that you lose a spike, they come with a couple of spares.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  24. #2724

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    Howie, how did you attach them to your radials???
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  25. #2725

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    Most vehicles today are not well built
    You've said this several times in the past, and those were incorrect statements as well (pretty sure I corrected you at least once, as well). Vehicles today are far MORE reliable than cars of the past. When's the last time you heard of someone's engine blowing or transmission cratering? It's almost unheard of today, yet was a fairly common occurrence in the past (hence the occasional run-down transmission shop you'll see rotting away in industrial areas). Really the only caveat to the increase in vehicle quality and reliability is that vehicles come with a lot more bells and whistles these days, and therefore there's more things to break or need maintenance. But the main aspects of a gasoline powered car today (engine, transmission, suspension, chassis/frame etc) are all far and away more reliable and built better today than they have in the past.

    A big part of the reason why American made cars lost massive market share to Japanese brands is because the Japanese brands were so much more reliable over time. The other manufacturers were forced to up their own game, as well. But today even the most unreliable Land Rover or Jaguar is probably better built and more reliable than a Tercel or Civic from the 90's.

    https://www.nola.com/business/index....ality_rel.html

    The newfound emphasis on quality has closed the gap between best and worst in the industry. In 1998, J.D. Power and Associates, which surveys owners about trouble with their cars after three years, found an industry average of 278 problems per 100 vehicles. By this year, the number fell to 132.
    That article is from 2012, and it's likely that the trend has only continued.

    But please, return to your regular schedule of taking a giant dump on anything and everything because you seem to think it makes you an authority on everything.
    It depends on what one considers reliable and improved product and market better served. Todays cars are disproportionately more expensive to operate than ever, todays designs pretty much rule out significant back alley garage repairs, and the costs of vehicle ownership today approximate the cost of rental housing. Actually exceed it considering that most people share rent, whereas most people buy vehicles exclusively.

    You want me to link several articles on how the vehicle consumer today is not well served by overpriced, overloaded vehicles in todays market that are exceedingly difficult to repair, and exceedingly costly? I specifically mentioned the too many bells and whistles subject to breaking down.


    My Transaxle cratered right on Anthony Henday. Not a fun moment. On a vehicle that was 3yrs old. Additionally it totalled the bottom of the engine block due to the transxle onboard circuitry malfunctioning and creating redlining and catastrophic failure in a minute. Fortunately was a massive warranty repair that I didn't have to pay anything for other than my faith in todays vehicles.

    Also, nice fiction about Transmission shops rotting away. Anything else you want to invent?

    Finally, you are not a car mechanic. Are you more of an authority?
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-02-2019 at 05:55 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #2726

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    Your transaxle cratered in 3 years??? What did you buy, a Lada?

    You are crying but it was covered by warranty so what is all your posting about? I would guess that the dealer fixed the transaxle on warranty in their shop, so hence, transmission shops don't get the work.

    Most cars have 5 year powertrain warranties and some even 10 year, that are way better than what we had decades ago, showing confidence in the better quality product they produce now.
    https://www.motor1.com/features/2532...le-warranties/

    As far as car prices, my first new car that I bought was a 1985 Chrysler Lebaron GTS cost me $12,000 cash (~$25,000 today)



    2.2L 100 hp torque 121 lb-ft, 4 cyl engine, SOHC 8 valves, single point throttle body injection
    5 speed manual transmission, 0- 100 km/h 11.9 seconds, 8.7 l/100km
    14" alloy rims 185/70 R 14
    2 discs and 2 drums no anti-lock brakes
    curb weight: 1200 kg / 2645 lbs 26.7 lbs/hp
    AM/FM radio with cassette player, 5 speakers
    No airbags
    Financing if you needed it was around 10%!

    For $25,000 today you can get a new 2019 Honda Civic Sedan LX CVT with


    1.5L 158 hp torque 138 lb-ft, 4 cyl engine, DOHC; Intercooler; Turbo 16 valves, single point throttle body injection
    Variable-Speed transmission, 0- 100 km/h 8.6 seconds, 7.1 l/100km
    17" alloy rims 215/50 R 17
    4 discs 4 wheel anti-lock brakes
    curb weight: 1300 kg / 2965 lbs 18.9 lbs/hp
    180-watt AM/FM audio system with MP3/Windows Media® Audio playback capability and 8 speakers
    8 airbags plus a huge list of advanced features unavailable in 1985
    2.49% financing



    https://news.goauto.ca/best-new-cars-under-25k/

    Way more car than in 1985 for the same money.

    You are dreaming when you think older cars were better
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    or cheaper!

  28. #2728
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Howie, how did you attach them to your radials???
    With great difficulty.

    Anyhoo, I was replying to Replacements post #2719 where he was talking about footwear.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  29. #2729

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Your transaxle cratered in 3 years??? What did you buy, a Lada?

    You are crying but it was covered by warranty so what is all your posting about? I would guess that the dealer fixed the transaxle on warranty in their shop, so hence, transmission shops don't get the work.

    Most cars have 5 year powertrain warranties and some even 10 year, that are way better than what we had decades ago, showing confidence in the better quality product they produce now.
    https://www.motor1.com/features/2532...le-warranties/

    As far as car prices, my first new car that I bought was a 1985 Chrysler Lebaron GTS cost me $12,000 cash (~$25,000 today)



    2.2L 100 hp torque 121 lb-ft, 4 cyl engine, SOHC 8 valves, single point throttle body injection
    5 speed manual transmission, 0- 100 km/h 11.9 seconds, 8.7 l/100km
    14" alloy rims 185/70 R 14
    2 discs and 2 drums no anti-lock brakes
    curb weight: 1200 kg / 2645 lbs 26.7 lbs/hp
    AM/FM radio with cassette player, 5 speakers
    No airbags
    Financing if you needed it was around 10%!

    For $25,000 today you can get a new 2019 Honda Civic Sedan LX CVT with


    1.5L 158 hp torque 138 lb-ft, 4 cyl engine, DOHC; Intercooler; Turbo 16 valves, single point throttle body injection
    Variable-Speed transmission, 0- 100 km/h 8.6 seconds, 7.1 l/100km
    17" alloy rims 215/50 R 17
    4 discs 4 wheel anti-lock brakes
    curb weight: 1300 kg / 2965 lbs 18.9 lbs/hp
    180-watt AM/FM audio system with MP3/Windows Media® Audio playback capability and 8 speakers
    8 airbags plus a huge list of advanced features unavailable in 1985
    2.49% financing



    https://news.goauto.ca/best-new-cars-under-25k/

    Way more car than in 1985 for the same money.

    You are dreaming when you think older cars were better
    Specious example. Buddy picked up a 2nd hand Impala, circa late 70's, in 1980, damn thing refused to stop running and most of them were like that. He paid 2-3K for that car and he had it still running 15yr later and anything it needed was easily worked on. Another friend had a cheap 2nd hand Datsun with no probs ever. I had a 70's VW bug, no prob either, ever and dirt cheap. I paid 800 for that one and couldn't lose it. You picked some pos ***** car that was poorly manufactured to compare it to a car today.


    Speaking of bad cars I had a 2nd hand Camaro, paid 8K for it, one year old. Got a dozen years out of that one.

    In contrast the AVERAGE cost of car ownership today is over 10K/YEAR!

    By the way my SUV was the Brand that Mr Kim from Kim's convenience store thinks highly of, I could even park in front of his store...

    In anycase late 70's early 80's you could get wheels that ran fine for 300bucks. There'd be a 100 listings in the paper of vehicles for under 1K. That were in working condition. You can't buy a decent bicycle for that now. Car ownership is an inordinate expense today and why millennials increasingly don't bite on even considering it.


    Can't speak to financing. Bought every set of wheels I ever had with cash.

    ps of course the dealership tried to get OUT of fixing everything. I had a battle on my hands and weeks of frustration before they agreed to fix everything. Powertrain warranty or bumper to bumper warranty or not. That I had only put 10K on the vehicle since purchasing it 2nd hand from that dealership was a mitigating factor. They weren't slimy enough to forget that.
    Last edited by Replacement; 12-02-2019 at 10:29 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  30. #2730

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    I paid the $12,000 for the new GTS in cash

    My first car was a 1974 VW Bus so don't tell me that VW's were reliable. VW's were loved by their owners but no one ever said that they were a reliable car. They were crap and unsafe at any speed.


    All your examples were 2nd hand cars you and your friends bought cheap.
    Apples and used oranges comparison. Plus I bet you forgot all the maintenance like spark plugs, adjusting the points and timing, brakes, mufflers and of course, the Impala never even needed gas because it ran on pink unicorn farts...

    Over time you forgot how much maintenance those cars were and how hard to start on a cold morning. Keep waxing nostalgic...

    Next you are going to tell us how faxes and telex machines are so much better than email.

    Give it a rest, cars are far more reliable, rust resistant and have many more features at a cost comparable to today; than days gone by.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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  31. #2731

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    As far as your 70's VW Bug, I did not know one self respecting VW owner who did not have these two books



    Your VW Beetle was a death trap in an accident, had no A/C and a useless heater. Did you forget that?

    I bought my 74 VW Bus from my dad who originally bought it for $5,500 on Christmas Eve 1974 at Volkswagen Northern on 97th street.

    That is about $26,600 today according to the Bank of Canada Inflation Calculator. Percent change on consumer inflation is 383%
    Minimum wage in Alberta was $ in 1974, Minimum wage today is $15.00, it was $2.00 in 1975 a 750% increase

    As far as your faith in the "SUV was the Brand that Mr Kim from Kim's convenience store" as your car buying guru, I have no idea since I don't watch the show.

    Maybe you can tell us all what you bought.

    Compare a
    1974 VW Bus
    Price $5,500 about $26,600 today
    Engine 1.8L 4-cylinder
    Valve Train 8-valve, SOHC, Dual-carburetor
    Horsepower 67 hp @ 4,200 rpm
    Torque 101 lb.ft. @ 3,000 rpm
    Transmission 4-speed manual
    0-100 kph time 23 seconds, downhill, with the wind, peddling furiously. LOL

    2019 Sorento LX FWD
    Price about $26,600 today
    Engine 2.4L 4-cylinder
    Valve Train 16-valve, DOHC, 4 point EFI Dual-Cam Variable Valve Timing (D-CVVT)
    Horsepower 185 hp @ 6,000 rpm
    Torque 178 lb.ft. @ 4,000 rpm
    Transmission 6-speed Sportmatic automatic
    0-100 kph time 10.1 seconds
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2019 at 10:09 AM.
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  32. #2732

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I paid the $12,000 for the new GTS in cash

    My first car was a 1974 VW Bus so don't tell me that VW's were reliable. VW's were loved by their owners but no one ever said that they were a reliable car. They were crap and unsafe at any speed.


    All your examples were 2nd hand cars you and your friends bought cheap.
    Apples and used oranges comparison. Plus I bet you forgot all the maintenance like spark plugs, adjusting the points and timing, brakes, mufflers and of course, the Impala never even needed gas because it ran on pink unicorn farts...

    Over time you forgot how much maintenance those cars were and how hard to start on a cold morning. Keep waxing nostalgic...

    Next you are going to tell us how faxes and telex machines are so much better than email.

    Give it a rest, cars are far more reliable, rust resistant and have many more features at a cost comparable to today; than days gone by.
    So much misinformation;

    1) Gas was cheap. Really the cost of gas wasn't even a consideration. Or the cost of Oil, spark plugs.

    2)By no means was the standard VW Beetle a lemon. Countless people drove these for decades and in lots of countries around the world you'll see 50yr old Beetles still on the road. Not many features but that's the appeal to a lot of people and making it the most popular production vehicle of its time or any time before it.

    3)Impalas were one of those vehicles that owners generally hit the jackpot on. Dependable, decent car, well put together that didn't need a lot of servicing.

    4)If vehicles are more rust resistant, and they probably are, whats with all this howling about what is put on the roads?

    5)As mentioned the costs of vehicle repair today is so much more prohibitive that it is the number 1 factor in vehicle changeover. The depreciation of todays vehicles so severe that its often the case that one single required repair exceeds the worth of the vehicle. That is the end game of todays vehicles.

    6) Did you not wonder why so many used vehicles like Datsun's, Beetles, Toyotas, that would run forever were on the market so long after production, and so cheap? Its because they never stopped being a movable set of wheels. That were had for low cost, with low upkeep, low insurance, very little cost of ownership. Theres always been a market of people that want LESS bells and whistles. The auto industry tends not to service that because they get less sticker price. So that even base models are loaded.

    7)Why on Earth would you buy a Chrysler Lebaron GTS? That was one of the worst production vehicles you could have purchased. Clearly if you bought overpriced junk like that gimmicks, sales pitches, and bells and whistles mean a lot to you.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  33. #2733

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    As far as your 70's VW Bug, I did not know one self respecting VW owner who did not have these two books



    Your VW Beetle was a death trap in an accident, had no A/C and a useless heater. Did you forget that?

    I bought my 74 VW Bus from my dad who originally bought it for $5,500 on Christmas Eve 1974 at Volkswagen Northern on 97th street.

    That is about $26,600 today according to the Bank of Canada Inflation Calculator. Percent change on consumer inflation is 383%
    Minimum wage in Alberta was $ in 1974, Minimum wage today is $15.00, it was $2.00 in 1975 a 750% increase

    As far as your faith in the "SUV was the Brand that Mr Kim from Kim's convenience store" as your car buying guru, I have no idea since I don't watch the show.

    Maybe you can tell us all what you bought.

    Compare a
    1974 VW Bus
    Price $5,500 about $26,600 today
    Engine 1.8L 4-cylinder
    Valve Train 8-valve, SOHC, Dual-carburetor
    Horsepower 67 hp @ 4,200 rpm
    Torque 101 lb.ft. @ 3,000 rpm
    Transmission 4-speed manual
    0-100 kph time 23 seconds, downhill, with the wind, peddling furiously. LOL

    2019 Sorento LX FWD
    Price about $26,600 today
    Engine 2.4L 4-cylinder
    Valve Train 16-valve, DOHC, 4 point EFI Dual-Cam Variable Valve Timing (D-CVVT)
    Horsepower 185 hp @ 6,000 rpm
    Torque 178 lb.ft. @ 4,000 rpm
    Transmission 6-speed Sportmatic automatic
    0-100 kph time 10.1 seconds
    I'll boil it down for you. The first vehicle shown is a collectors vehicle which has retained value and is a classic find. The market for Oid VW busses, camper vans has never relented, is always hot, and people love those vehicles, love having them, and buying them. They are some of the best vehicle non depreciation stories ever manufactured.

    To wit anybody could get a VW camper Van today. Prepare for it to cost 15K or more because its a collectors vehicle in demand and despite its cost is 10% of the cost of getting one of todays bloated and ridiculous new camper vans that retail for more than the price of a house used to be. The VW camper van is classic because it was well designed, efficient use of space, practicality, and had everything you needed and intelligently put together.


    The Kims convenience store line is a joke. No, not a recommendation. Hyundai Santafe SUV. Not the best, certainly, but I've got great deals on every one and the most important features for me being an all in one vehicle that services small cargo, small trailer pulling, vehicle around the town and that is high enough seating that it offers decent driving sight lines. I like to see whats ahead of me and behind me and all directions further to defensive driving. Plus that I would not want to drive a subcompact in this province with todays drivers. so no, not a great vehicle, I've had one really good Santafe that was excellent, and one not so great. A lot of people love the Santafe line though and have since its inception.

    Now finally, do you ever factor in the cost of automotive bailouts in a garbage industry that if it was so good wouldn't require them?
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-02-2019 at 10:28 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  34. #2734

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post

    So much misinformation;

    1) Gas was cheap. Really the cost of gas wasn't even a consideration. Or the cost of Oil, spark plugs.

    2)By no means was the standard VW Beetle a lemon. Countless people drove these for decades and in lots of countries around the world you'll see 50yr old Beetles still on the road. Not many features but that's the appeal to a lot of people and making it the most popular production vehicle of its time or any time before it.

    3)Impalas were one of those vehicles that owners generally hit the jackpot on. Dependable, decent car, well put together that didn't need a lot of servicing.

    4)If vehicles are more rust resistant, and they probably are, whats with all this howling about what is put on the roads?

    5)As mentioned the costs of vehicle repair today is so much more prohibitive that it is the number 1 factor in vehicle changeover. The depreciation of todays vehicles so severe that its often the case that one single required repair exceeds the worth of the vehicle. That is the end game of todays vehicles.

    6) Did you not wonder why so many used vehicles like Datsun's, Beetles, Toyotas, that would run forever were on the market so long after production, and so cheap? Its because they never stopped being a movable set of wheels. That were had for low cost, with low upkeep, low insurance, very little cost of ownership. Theres always been a market of people that want LESS bells and whistles. The auto industry tends not to service that because they get less sticker price. So that even base models are loaded.

    7)Why on Earth would you buy a Chrysler Lebaron GTS? That was one of the worst production vehicles you could have purchased. Clearly if you bought overpriced junk like that gimmicks, sales pitches, and bells and whistles mean a lot to you.
    1) In the late 70's and early eighties gas was more expensive than today


    2) "By no means was the standard VW Beetle a lemon." You are out of your mind. They were a below average car in performance and build quality.

    3) Impalas, maybe but most of GM's vehicles made in the 70's and 80's were complete junk. Impalas were a boat. A 1979 Impala was underpowered and over weight, with 0-100 kph times in the 16 second range. What year was this mysterious Impala? Not all years were good years. You did not own the Impala, your friend did. He was smarter than you.

    4) I am not complaining about salt, others are.

    5) cars have always been expensive to repair. Today's cars are higher quality and need less repairs. If you buy a Mercedes or a Porsche, don't expect cheap repairs ever; not 50 years ago and not now either. If you want something cheap to repair, buy a Model T. Call your friends over to help.




    6) Don't see many vintage Datsun's, Beetles, Toyotas like the Trecel or Corollas on the road anymore. They turned to rust, then dust and were melted down as scrap metal.

    7) The Lebaron GTS was a decent car that performed well at the time. Good on gas and you could load a whole bunch of stuff in it. Drove it across Canada several times including the Alaska highway all the way to Dawson and down the Cassiar highway. Did lots of gravel roads in it. It was totaled in '92 by a stolen Camaro on Capilano Drive during a police chase.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2019 at 11:02 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  35. #2735

    Default

    Every so often I see old people driving in old Chrysler sedans. I suspect they drive less than a couple thousand km a year, hence the reason the car is stil able to go on the road.

    I had a 1975 Toyota Corolla and in four years of driving all it needed one $50 heater switch and that’s it. It had a manual choke, std tranny, 1100 cc engine, door to door rubber floor matting. So next I bought a 1980 Supra. Another amazingly reliable vehicle.

    I’d also never want to go back to those days. Those cars were death traps compared to today’s vehicles.
    Last edited by KC; 13-02-2019 at 11:18 AM.

  36. #2736
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    Has anyone seen any sign of residential blading in their neighbourhood after the latest big dump of snow ?
    Noah's ark was built by volunteers...... The Titanic was built by professionals.

  37. #2737

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post

    So much misinformation;

    1) Gas was cheap. Really the cost of gas wasn't even a consideration. Or the cost of Oil, spark plugs.

    2)By no means was the standard VW Beetle a lemon. Countless people drove these for decades and in lots of countries around the world you'll see 50yr old Beetles still on the road. Not many features but that's the appeal to a lot of people and making it the most popular production vehicle of its time or any time before it.

    3)Impalas were one of those vehicles that owners generally hit the jackpot on. Dependable, decent car, well put together that didn't need a lot of servicing.

    4)If vehicles are more rust resistant, and they probably are, whats with all this howling about what is put on the roads?

    5)As mentioned the costs of vehicle repair today is so much more prohibitive that it is the number 1 factor in vehicle changeover. The depreciation of todays vehicles so severe that its often the case that one single required repair exceeds the worth of the vehicle. That is the end game of todays vehicles.

    6) Did you not wonder why so many used vehicles like Datsun's, Beetles, Toyotas, that would run forever were on the market so long after production, and so cheap? Its because they never stopped being a movable set of wheels. That were had for low cost, with low upkeep, low insurance, very little cost of ownership. Theres always been a market of people that want LESS bells and whistles. The auto industry tends not to service that because they get less sticker price. So that even base models are loaded.

    7)Why on Earth would you buy a Chrysler Lebaron GTS? That was one of the worst production vehicles you could have purchased. Clearly if you bought overpriced junk like that gimmicks, sales pitches, and bells and whistles mean a lot to you.
    1) In the late 70's and early eighties gas was more expensive than today


    2) "By no means was the standard VW Beetle a lemon." You are out of your mind. They were a below average car in performance and build quality.

    3) Impalas, maybe but most of GM's vehicles made in the 70's and 80's were complete junk. Impalas were a boat. A 1979 Impala was underpowered and over weight, with 0-100 kph times in the 16 second range. What year was this mysterious Impala? Not all years were good years. You did not own the Impala, your friend did. He was smarter than you.

    4) I am not complaining about salt, others are.

    5) cars have always been expensive to repair. Today's cars are higher quality and need less repairs. If you buy a Mercedes or a Porsche, don't expect cheap repairs ever; not 50 years ago and not now either. If you want something cheap to repair, buy a Model T. Call your friends over to help.




    6) Don't see many vintage Datsun's, Beetles, Toyotas like the Trecel or Corollas on the road anymore. They turned to rust, then dust and were melted down as scrap metal.

    7) The Lebaron GTS was a decent car that performed well at the time. Good on gas and you could load a whole bunch of stuff in it. Drove it across Canada several times including the Alaska highway all the way to Dawson and down the Cassiar highway. Did lots of gravel roads in it. It was totaled in '92 by a stolen Camaro on Capilano Drive during a police chase.
    For one, those are US gas prices, not Alberta prices that were experienced here. No reason to respond to the rest of your post. We value different things. I like vehicles that get from one point to the other and that have steering, suspension and brakes.

    You value bells and whistles, ostentation, power, performance. I could care less, I drove a Saturn and it was the best NA vehicle possibly ever assembled in my terms. No nonsense vehicle, bare bones, did nothing but run at low cost and EASY to service. I would continue to drive nothing but Saturns but they don't exist now, although many still survive on the road.

    You can bleat on about how horrible the Saturn vehicles were even though it was not uncommon to hit 400-600K on those vehicles simple platforms and at extremely low cost of operation. warranty didn't even matter, nothing of significance ever went wrong. Sometimes the auto industry ***** up and builds a perfect reliable vehicle and then shitcans it and hope nobody noticed.
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-02-2019 at 11:20 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  38. #2738

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Has anyone seen any sign of residential blading in their neighbourhood after the latest big dump of snow ?
    my residential bus route was bladed last night, I dont think they are ready to do the rest of residentials yet. It seems as soon as they get caught up with bus routes, it snows again, and they start all over again from scratch.

  39. #2739

    Default

    ^^ never said anything about Saturns. Or the EV1 either. Saturn only survived 20 years, 1990 to 2010. About the only good cars GM ever built. Of course they killed both. GM continued to build crap.

    Still did not answer any of my questions. Year of the Impala or what Mr. Kim SUV you own now.

    I remember gas hitting 65 cents a litre in Edmonton in the spring of 1981. That's about $1.80 today.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2019 at 11:53 AM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  40. #2740

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^ never said anything about Saturns. Or the EV1 either. Saturn only survived 20 years, 1990 to 2010. About the only good cars GM ever built. Of course they killed both. GM continued to build crap.

    Still did not answer any of my questions. Year of the Impala or what Mr. Kim SUV you own now.

    I remember gas hitting 65 cents a litre in Edmonton in the spring of 1981. That's about $1.80 today.
    I told you in a post above I've had two different Hyundai Santafe's First one was a great vehicle, fantastic value, reliable, was totalled, while parked, by a drunk driver. That vehicle was gold. The next one I got not as great but still enjoy the vehicle.

    Your memory is foggy. Do you not remember that the price of gas used to be sold here by the GALLON, and not the litre. Not sure where you were paying 65cents a litre. Even as late as 84 gas was around 35cents a litre. In the seventies there were times I paid not much much for a GALLON of gas.


    I remember it costing me 3-4bucks once to drive to Jasper in the small VW bug. Maybe I was drafting behind large semi's
    Last edited by Replacement; 13-02-2019 at 01:12 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  41. #2741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Has anyone seen any sign of residential blading in their neighbourhood after the latest big dump of snow ?

    Yes, the bus routes in my neighbourhood were cleared last week and the rest of the roads are being cleared right now. They worked through the night and are removing windrows today.

  42. #2742

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Has anyone seen any sign of residential blading in their neighbourhood after the latest big dump of snow ?
    my residential bus route was bladed last night, I dont think they are ready to do the rest of residentials yet. It seems as soon as they get caught up with bus routes, it snows again, and they start all over again from scratch.

    Hey, take your post on 'Snow and the city streets' into the appropriate thread and stay out of this car debate.... oh wait.....
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  43. #2743

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    ^^ never said anything about Saturns. Or the EV1 either. Saturn only survived 20 years, 1990 to 2010. About the only good cars GM ever built. Of course they killed both. GM continued to build crap.

    Still did not answer any of my questions. Year of the Impala or what Mr. Kim SUV you own now.

    I remember gas hitting 65 cents a litre in Edmonton in the spring of 1981. That's about $1.80 today.
    I told you in a post above I've had two different Hyundai Santafe's First one was a great vehicle, fantastic value, reliable, was totalled, while parked, by a drunk driver. That vehicle was gold. The next one I got not as great but still enjoy the vehicle.

    Your memory is foggy. Do you not remember that the price of gas used to be sold here by the GALLON, and not the litre. Not sure where you were paying 65cents a litre. Even as late as 84 gas was around 35cents a litre. In the seventies there were times I paid not much much for a GALLON of gas.


    I remember it costing me 3-4bucks once to drive to Jasper in the small VW bug. Maybe I was drafting behind large semi's
    Our posts crossed so only after my post did I see that you bought a Santa Fe

    Maybe prior to the 1973 oil embargo, gas was cheap but after that gas prices took off. US and Canadian gas prices are go up and down with the world oil prices so you can see in the early eighties that prices spiked. By the later 80's prices halved so maybe in 1987 or 1988, prices dropped to about 35 cents. in the early 80's prices were double. The price at the pump was changed to by the litre in 1979. In 1980-81, prices hit over 60 cents a litre.



    Best you could do in a VW Beetle 1200 with a 50hp engine was about 30 miles to the Canadian Gallon. Your Santa Fe gets about the same milage.






    US prices




    Canadian Prices

    https://www.canadianbusiness.com/blo...s-other-goods/



    3 linked videos

    Gas prices in Vancouver 51.2 cents per litre 1986. Gas Prices dropped in Vancouver in reaction in decliing world price of crude oil. Locally, the drop was at least two cents per litre.
    http://www.vancouversun.com/cars/Gal...833/story.html

    Gas prices were 45.1 cents a litre in 1982 in Ottawa
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...tawa-1.3919371


    In 1979, the price for gas was 18 cents a litre and minimum wage was $3.65 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/1970-...ices-1.1695292
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 13-02-2019 at 03:13 PM.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  44. #2744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry N View Post
    Has anyone seen any sign of residential blading in their neighbourhood after the latest big dump of snow ?
    Our bus route was bladed/zamboni'd and, holy smokes, they've gritted it, too. Bonus!
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  45. #2745

    Default

    As a point of reference.

    Montreal got hit with 16 inches (40cm) of snow in 12 hours. All streets including residential and alleys plowed, many of them twice within 24 hours. All parking lots cleaned as well.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  46. #2746
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    Must have budget room from all the equalization money that pours into their province that cities in paying provinces don't get.

  47. #2747

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    Yeah, would you like a glass for all that whine? All the private businesses like malls, plazas, offices and condos pay out of their own pocket to have all the snow cleared within hours. Unless you are SNC, I highly doubt that any companies get transfer dollars to pay for their snow removal.

    Just different priorities.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; Yesterday at 09:54 AM.
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  48. #2748
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    Yeah, really it is just a matter of priorities. When it snows 40cm everything has to be cleared.

  49. #2749

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    I'm going to go out on limb and say that's probably easier to clear 40 cm all at once than it is it deal wit 2-4 cms every few days for a month.

    Montreal still far exceeds what we do here. They have an app to notify users, they have parking restrictions that are followed and enforced, vehicles are actually towed. They have daytime operations and nighttime operations. When a parking ban is declared, they offer free parking at major transit centers, and other places.

  50. #2750

    Default

    http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/snowremoval/operations-delais

    Snow removal operations


    There are four stages of snow removal:
    SaltingSalting consists of spreading salt and/or gravel on roads and sidewalks according to weather conditions. An average of 140,000 tonnes of salt and abrasives are used each winter. To clear the entire city, some 180 vehicles are used for roads and 190 for sidewalks.PlowingPlowing consists of moving snow to the sides of streets and sidewalks. It makes it possible for car and pedestrian traffic to resume quickly. There are 1,000 vehicles for plowing streets and sidewalks (sidewalk tractors, graders, snowplows and front-end loaders). Plowing begins as soon as there is 2.5 cm of snow on the ground and continues as long as the storm lasts, ending several hours after the snow stops falling.LoadingSnow loading involves picking up snow that was plowed to the side of the road during the loading operations. Snow loading depends on the amount of snow that has fallen, as well as the weather forecast.Since the winter of 2014, Montréal has used specialized software that feeds the INFO-Neige application (available on the AppleStore and GooglePlay) using open data. The app, which was developed by Sidekick Interactive, helps to accelerate snow loading operations by notifying residents about parking restrictions and places where they can move their car.
    DisposalDuring a snow removal operation, trucks take snow to one of several disposal sites.The average volume of snow taken to disposal sites per year is 12 million cubic metres – 300,000 truckloads. Meltwater from disposal sites is recovered and treated according to environmental standards.Since the winter of 2014, Montréal has used specialized management software to optimize snow removal operations (loading, transportation and elimination) and monitor billing.

  51. #2751

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I'm going to go out on limb and say that's probably easier to clear 40 cm all at once than it is it deal wit 2-4 cms every few days for a month.

    Montreal still far exceeds what we do here. They have an app to notify users, they have parking restrictions that are followed and enforced, vehicles are actually towed. They have daytime operations and nighttime operations. When a parking ban is declared, they offer free parking at major transit centers, and other places.
    In Montreal there is a lot of snow removal bidding corruption (they make movies about it)


    https://www.mtlblog.com/news/enterta...afia-in-quebec
    https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...bout-collusion
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...rest-but-slow/

    and Montreal has screwed up on several events (notably https://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...real-snowstorm ) but overall, it get done quickly and they get out early during the storm to keep traffic moving. Better to do a quick plow when 15cm falls at midnight and 15cm at 6am before the rush hour and finish up after the storm.

    It is the same amount of snow and you can do a fast job as it falls rather than bogging down and try to remove 40 cm all in one shot. Especially if you end up with stuck cars all over the place.

    As I have always stated, getting the equipment out during the storm and declaring a snow route ban early rather than waiting for the last snowflake falls, reduces the time it takes to clean up and possibly be caught with another storm a few days later.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  52. #2752

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    Unforunately, our policy is different than theirs. I'm curious about their budget for this versus ours.

  53. #2753

    Default

    Taxes are high in Montreal. Gotta pay the mafia and their beholden politicians...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  54. #2754

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    doesn't sound very economical, though it maybe effective and efficient.

  55. #2755
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    ^You know that old saying: Pick two!
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  56. #2756

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    Don't mind paying a bit more for snow removal. Edmonton's snow removal budget has always been underfunded based on an almost farcical belief that winter won't happen.

    With climate change, expect more snow and more frequent storms.

    Likewise, Vancouver's snow removal "fleet" was all prepared in the fall. https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...2018-19-season



    Snow removal standards set to increase on Malahat, Pat Bay with new contracts
    https://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/s...acts-1.4296118
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; Yesterday at 01:15 PM.
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  57. #2757

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    Don't mess with a snow plow in Montreal.

    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1611723
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  58. #2758
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    ^^^^^^.
    Noah's ark was built by volunteers...... The Titanic was built by professionals.

  59. #2759

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Don't mess with a snow plow in Montreal.

    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1611723
    I actually wish this would occur here with all the obviously winter abandoned vehicles that sit out on streets in this city all winter long and nothing done about it. Its pretty obvious when theres months long snow/ice accumulations on a vehicle. Or the people like in the video that blatantly ignore snow removal signs, bans, indications. We've had neighbors who actually park the car on the street with the plows clearing the road. With the attention span of goldfish.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  60. #2760

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    Councillor Andrew Knack was interviewed on CHED this morning. Part of the interview dealt with snow removal, and how expensive it is here compared to other cities, like Ottawa and Winnipeg. Councillor Knack made a good point, brought up here before, that affects both the cost, like he mentioned, and the speed of plowing/removal, which this thread is mostly about. Most of the other cities have boulevards to place the snow on. You can store snow all winter on them, and the same equipment used to clear the roads can also be used to move the snow onto the boulevards immediately thereafter. Those boulevards are missing in many parts of Edmonton. And city rules mean you can't narrow the road more then a bus width with left over snow, which means most times the snow has to be picked up immediately when there's no boulevard. So you have to coordinate the snow clearing equipment with another whole crew of snow throwers and snow removal trucks, and add in the travel time it takes for limited supply of trucks to go back and forth to the snow storage facilities. I'm not excusing the city being slower then it has to be in many cases, but this seems to explain part of it. I'd be curious what the direct breakdown would be between the cost and time of clearing a boulevard-less stretch of road in Edmonton versus a boulevard-ed stretch in Winnipeg.

    It also explains why the City Administration was so willing to overlook the potential damage to concrete and cars from the calcium chloride; the more snow you can melt away, the less equipment and time required to haul it away, and the better there yearly books look. Until the councillors called them on it after finding out about it, the bureaucracy was content to overlook the long term damage in favour of a lower yearly snow clearing budget.

  61. #2761

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    Looking out of my office tower window in downtown where I have worked for over 37 years today I just thought I'd let everyone know that Winston Churchill Square is clean as a whistle as if no snow had fallen at all recently while all the downtown roads including Jasper Avenue are either packed ice or have ice ruts on them.

  62. #2762
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    It's almost like Churchill Square doesn't have vehicles driving on it, continually packing snow down.

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