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Thread: Snow and the city Streets

  1. #2301

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades...
    What? Yeah it was chilly, but hardly got any snow. Were you not around in 2013, 14 and 15? Those years were between 30-50 cm of snow, mostly overnight. 2013 saw 50cm in November. I specifically remember 2014 being bad and I spent a lot of my day helping people push their cars because everyone was getting stuck in the deep snow, and I had to drive my wife to work all week (She has a little car with no ground clearance). That was also a big overnight dump. Same with November 2015, I drove my wife to work for a week. Sure last year (2016) was mild, but this November was also very mild in my opinion. I would not even think to say it was the worst November in a decades... I have yet to even break out my snowblower this year because it's quicker to shovel...

  2. #2302
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades...
    What? Yeah it was chilly, but hardly got any snow. Were you not around in 2013, 14 and 15? Those years were between 30-50 cm of snow, mostly overnight. 2013 saw 50cm in November. I specifically remember 2014 being bad and I spent a lot of my day helping people push their cars because everyone was getting stuck in the deep snow, and I had to drive my wife to work all week (She has a little car with no ground clearance). That was also a big overnight dump. Same with November 2015, I drove my wife to work for a week. Sure last year (2016) was mild, but this November was also very mild in my opinion. I would not even think to say it was the worst November in a decades... I have yet to even break out my snowblower this year because it's quicker to shovel...

    I suspect we will get lots of snow Jan/Feb, if not, the COE will have some money again..like last the last snow budget.

  3. #2303
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades.
    Worst since 2013, average for the last 40 years with

    November:
    Means: 19cm snow, -4.1
    2017: ~18cm snow, -6.7 (estimate because EC doesn't have snowfall totals anymore just snow on ground which maxed at 13cm)
    2013: 44cm snow, -8.1
    2006 - 28.5 cm and - 9.6
    2003 - 28.8 cm and -7.0
    2001 - 26.3 cm and -1
    1998 - 35.2 cm and -4.2

    The problem right now isn't how much snow we got but that it's now too warm and everything is thawing and freezing.
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 07-12-2017 at 02:08 PM. Reason: Found more recent numbers.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  4. #2304

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    ^November was certainly winter and the worst November we have had in decades.
    Worst since 2013, average for the last 40 years with

    November:
    Means: 19cm snow, -4.1
    2017: ~18cm snow, -6.7 (estimate because EC doesn't have snowfall totals anymore just snow on ground which maxed at 13cm)
    2013: 44cm snow, -8.1
    2006 - 28.5 cm and - 9.6
    2003 - 28.8 cm and -7.0
    2001 - 26.3 cm and -1
    1998 - 35.2 cm and -4.2

    The problem right now isn't how much snow we got but that it's now too warm and everything is thawing and freezing.
    The numbers don't always tell the story. For road conditions continual light dustings are often the worse to gloss things up and make road conditions difficult. MOST Novembers we get frequent snow/melt cycles and the snow often disappears at some point in the month. This year is different and a contiguous snow blanket throughout November, which is extremely rare. Accumulations in November often disappear in whole or in part. So the ice and snow this early in the year has resembled curling type ice more typically found later in the winter. its very rare to get such polished ice in backroads and alleys this early in the year.

    The average temps above don't tell the complete story either. Another factor would be high and low temp variance on an average basis. For instance November would commonly have +5 or higher daytime highs and sun which would melt snow. This November featured day time highs below, or around freezing. Meaning most of the snow stuck around.

    As mentioned I snowshoe. Theres been complete winters where there has been less of a carpet of snow accumulation as we've seen this early, in November (and throughout November) Indeed I got the snoeshoes out mid November, and kept them in use. Earliest ever time where I could go out regularly. in a typical November there wouldn't even be half the days where you have good enough snow cover. This November its been the entire month.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  5. #2305
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    If the brine is applied before a snowfall and it doesn't snow for 3-4 days after the application is the brine solution still effective?
    I'm having people over later to stare at their phones,if you want to drop by

  6. #2306

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    It looks like they applied brine this morning, at -10 before a dusting of snow. Did absolutely no good, if anything it just made the snow stick.
    There can only be one.

  7. #2307
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    They've put down a lot of sand on the downtown roads today due to the snow flurries. I wish they would use the brine instead.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  8. #2308

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    They've put down a lot of sand on the downtown roads today due to the snow flurries. I wish they would use the brine instead.
    It's too cold for the brine to work

    "The brine needs to be sprayed before it snows. It only works effectively above -25 C."
    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...ds-more-easily

  9. #2309

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    I didn't think the streets were in very good condition this morning. I don't know if it's the calcium chloride brine freezing over or what but everything is covered with a layer of ice. I didn't appreciate that any sanding had been done to compensate.

  10. #2310

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    Yeah, they were a pile of garbage today. I can't remember the last time my traction control light flicked on on Jasper Ave.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  11. #2311
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    Conditions are not ideal, and won't be until the weather warms up some, but this is much better than the piles of brown sludge we have had in previous years after sand was dumped on top of fresh snow.

  12. #2312

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Conditions are not ideal, and won't be until the weather warms up some, but this is much better than the piles of brown sludge we have had in previous years after sand was dumped on top of fresh snow.
    Frankly a little sand would be a good thing because clearly the calcium chloride by itself isn't up to the task.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...monton-streets
    Edmonton police are asking drivers to slow down and drive to conditions as collisions continue to pile up during Edmonton’s morning rush hour commute.


    Police reported 75 collisions between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m., five of which involved injuries.
    All this after Edmonton has received a measured total of just 1.8 mm of precipitation for the month (roughly equivalent to just 2 cm of snow).

    http://climate.weather.gc.ca/climate...tationID=27214

    (I suspect this underestimates the true amount somewhat because it was all rather wind-blown, but in any event you can hardly say we've had a lot of snow.)

  13. #2313

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    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  14. #2314

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.

  15. #2315

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    I noticed on a bike path yesterday that the edges that didn't get brine and had been dry before the snow came were mostly free of snow. What fell there blew off.

    That was not the case for the portion that was still a bit wet from the brine.
    There can only be one.

  16. #2316

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  17. #2317

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.

    I've always said the biggest mistake of snow clearing is waiting until that last ounce of snow falls to the ground.

    If they work on clearing the snow throughout the day, then there may not be as many problems with slick roads.

    The 100 plus collisions this morning is a good indicator that our roads are not being maintained properly to allow safe commuting.

  18. #2318

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.

  19. #2319

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    Road clearing here lacks the logic of any homeowner. The strategy for anybody owning property being to get the snow off the walks before it gets packed down. Speaking of simple. Normally, In Edmonton this is done extremely easily as we don't often get heavy accumulations of snow. So that even using a push broom is quite effective 90% of the time. Much easier than shovelling and much quicker. To demonstrate how easy it is I routinely clear half the block and around the corner. Takes me hardly any time at all. Trick is to not wait and to get to it before foot traffic.

    Similarly if the city just used street cleaners with heavy brushes (please no water, heh) they could get the majority of the snow off roadways and stop it sticking to roadways so it doesn't get compacted down and polished to fine curling ice. Which it is all over the city right now.

    I've lived here decades and I don't think I've ever seen the city use brushes instead of plows to clear off the roads in the winter.

    Why not?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  20. #2320

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.
    The laws of physics means at -20C or less sand does little more than polish the ice formed by vehicles idling at intersections.

    Edmonton's hick-town driving heritage "condemns Edmonton to be vanquished" and the rest of us to have to hear people's hyperbolic griping about it.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  21. #2321

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    At these low temperatures sand is really only useful for polishing the ice that drivers are sliding around on and leading them to think the road isn't as icy as it really is.
    That may or may not be true; I tend to disagree.

    The larger question though is how the ubiquitous layer of ice formed in the first place and how the northernmost major city in North America can be brought to its knees by less than 2 inches of snow.
    Can't argue with physics...

    From what I read it's the ice that was the problem, made by vehicles idling at light and polished by their tires and sand.
    Not sure how the laws of physics condemn Edmonton to be vanquished by less two inches of snow. Winter city strategy and all that.
    The laws of physics means at -20C or less sand does little more than polish the ice formed by vehicles idling at intersections.

    Edmonton's hick-town driving heritage "condemns Edmonton to be vanquished" and the rest of us to have to hear people's hyperbolic griping about it.
    Speaking of hyperbolic... That’s a law of physics?

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