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Thread: Wayy off topic: North Korea..

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Why does China not step up to the post?.
    China's pretty fed up with North Korea's leadership, but they're in a similar position to the US: they have few if any good options. If they cut off oil or other trade, it could well destabilize North Korea. China's primary concern is stability. They absolutely do not want to deal with either millions of refugees trying to cross the border if the regime collapses, or worse, American and/or other Western countries' troops moving in to a collapsed North Korea or a unified Korean peninsula. They want to maintain the status quo as much as is possible, and aren't thrilled with Kim's nuclear and missile testing.

  2. #102
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    This guy has to be stopped. He's firing missiles over Japan, that to me sounds very close to an act of war. Japan needs to start firing missiles west over NK.
    Perhaps we just need to bite the bullet and evacuate Seoul and residents close to the border and then take Kim and his army out.

  3. #103
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    An evacuation of 20 million people would take weeks, North Korea would be entirely aware of it and likely consider it a prelude to war. And even if Seoul was successfully evacuated without NK attacking preemptively, the entire Korean peninsula is well within their shorter and intermediate range missiles, which could well be nuclear tipped. Where are those 20 million people going to go, if not elsewhere in SK? There is no military option that doesn't result in the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions. There is no credible person or expert who feels otherwise.

    Read this article if you think otherwise: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-earth/528717/

  4. #104
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    Where does all the money come for testing these weapons?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Where does all the money come for testing these weapons?
    Background channels like cash transfers through diplomatic pouches, Bitcoin raids, and the black market.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  6. #106
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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

    Their entire society and economy is set up to support the ruling dynasty and military. They get some hard currency by selling coal and fish to China, and sending workers to other nations (Malaysia is one, among others) to act as cheap labor and pocket the proceeds. I believe they also do some arms trading. But for the most part, they attempt to be as self sufficient as they can, and their trade with the rest of the world is tiny. Their total exports are something like 5-7 billion, from a quick look on Wikipedia. That's about 1/100th of what Canada does.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Econom...rt_Treemap.jpg

  7. #107
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    Perhaps that is what needs to be done. Sure, it's tough , disruptive and expensive. But standing up to this kind of behaviour is not going to be without difficulty. Fix it now or fix it later. What are we going to do when this guy can place a nuke on an ICBM?
    I sure hope some governments have covert plans to eliminate Kim.
    This really should have been tackled long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    An evacuation of 20 million people would take weeks, North Korea would be entirely aware of it and likely consider it a prelude to war. And even if Seoul was successfully evacuated without NK attacking preemptively, the entire Korean peninsula is well within their shorter and intermediate range missiles, which could well be nuclear tipped. Where are those 20 million people going to go, if not elsewhere in SK? There is no military option that doesn't result in the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions. There is no credible person or expert who feels otherwise.

    Read this article if you think otherwise: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-earth/528717/

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by rupikhalon001 View Post
    Perhaps that is what needs to be done. Sure, it's tough , disruptive and expensive. But standing up to this kind of behaviour is not going to be without difficulty. Fix it now or fix it later. What are we going to do when this guy can place a nuke on an ICBM?
    I sure hope some governments have covert plans to eliminate Kim.
    This really should have been tackled long ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    An evacuation of 20 million people would take weeks, North Korea would be entirely aware of it and likely consider it a prelude to war. And even if Seoul was successfully evacuated without NK attacking preemptively, the entire Korean peninsula is well within their shorter and intermediate range missiles, which could well be nuclear tipped. Where are those 20 million people going to go, if not elsewhere in SK? There is no military option that doesn't result in the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions. There is no credible person or expert who feels otherwise.

    Read this article if you think otherwise: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-earth/528717/
    I suspect a lot of thought has been given to such covert plans. However, the biggest problem is I don't think Kim lets just anybody with a nice smile into his inner circle and he also doesn't provide much information about his location to anyone.

    Regime change has turned into such a debacle in Iraq and Libya (and Afghanistan isn't going so well either), I don't know why the US would think next time it will work better. Kim would likely be replaced by a hard line army person who would be even more suspicious of the US or the country could end up in chaos like Libya, except with nukes. Doing something, while perhaps satisfying doesn't always make things better, sometimes it makes it worse.

  9. #109
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  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    To bad they did not put the war head on it.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  11. #111
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    !
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    To bad they did not put the war head on it.
    It will happen, fatty Kim is pissing everyone off!

  12. #112

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    What North Korean needs is for it's people to revolt. Millions of them to start a revolution. They may not have guns but they can make some pretty lethal weapons with everyday objects. Lil Kim would look good with a steel pipe through his head.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  13. #113

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    North Koreans are so cut off from the outside world that they have no idea what they are missing. Plus, they have no effective way to communicate and collaborate en masse. Nor a culture that considers dissent of any sort an option.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  14. #114

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    ^That is very true. They are so programmed they dare not make any moves on their own.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    North Korea dropped their plans to attack Guam. Which is an interesting outcome, given how everybody was in hysteria telling us that the President's words would escalate the situation.
    So, a missile flight over Japan and supposed-hydrogen bomb test later, it sure looks like Trump's escalation really calmed things down, eh? What a foreign policy and diplomatic genius! And threatening to cancel a trade deal with South Korea and criticizing their leadership right after both of those events? Genius too! I mean, someone of my average intelligence can't quite tell how it makes any sense whatsoever to weaken the alliance with SK at this time with such rhetoric, but like everything else, I'm sure the Orange God King has an uber secret plan for how this all ties together.
    Wow, Trump sure is scaring the heck out of Kim! All that bellicose chest pounding has made him totally back down, just like Trump intended. Wait, Kim's threatening an atmospheric hydrogen bomb test now? Hmm.

    Forgot the link and quote: https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...rrence/540819/

    The fact that Kim Jong Un is now prepared to put his personal credibility on the line signals a considerable escalation for the regime. Yet, here too, it was Ri who made the threat toward the Pacific and not Kim, who pledged to “think hard” about how to “tame” Trump with “results beyond his expectation.”

    Repeatedly this year, North Korea has shown new dexterity in issuing credible, coercive threats in its campaign to weaken American alliances. Like Guam, the threat to conduct an atmospheric test is coercive: If Trump does not moderate his rhetoric and force posture, the test will occur. Like threats to test an ICBM, a thermonuclear weapon, and to overfly Japan, Ri’s statement regarding a nuclear test in the Pacific is a test balloon to evaluate how the United States responds. The Trump administration has neglected to mount a tailored and specific response to each of these threats and each oversight paved the way for the next.

    US analysts are not certain the Kim regime has the capability to carry out the threat, though many consider it likely. Furthermore, the threat may not materialize in the near term (like Guam). Kim Jong Un may opt for an alternative response.


    The exchange of threats proves beyond a doubt that the Trump administration’s stance is not moderating North Korea but causing dangerous instability. The theory behind U.S. actions is that it is possible to generate a crisis sufficiently risky that Kim Jong Un will decide to acquiesce and agree that eliminating his nuclear arsenal is better than the risk of a war, regime change, and death. Nine months of this tactic has proven it has had the opposite effect: Pyongyang has tested new missiles at an accelerated rate, a possible thermonuclear weapon, and has signaled that it will overfly Japan regularly. Rhetorical threats cause North Korea to escalate the situation, not back down. If anything, sanctions are causing nuclear weapons to be detonated, not disarmed. To continue this strategy would be like stepping off a cliff and expecting to ascend into the clouds. The evidence shows the opposite. At the same time, ignoring Pyongyang’s threats and hoping they go away is clearly not working; it only emboldens North Korea to make good on their threat and to pose another.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 22-09-2017 at 09:14 PM.

  16. #116
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    I very much doubt Kim will do a thing! Its the very first time anyone has stood up to fat boy, his own people, and the young girls he has as sex slaves would be glad if a sniper took him out!

  17. #117
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    Uh, he's been doing quite a few "things" over the past few months. Were you not paying attention?

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Uh, he's been doing quite a few "things" over the past few months. Were you not paying attention?
    Has he hit one thing? Just one? No, I thought not. He likes his life way too much to forfeit it!

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by H.L. View Post
    Its the very first time anyone has stood up to fat boy, his own people, and the young girls he has as sex slaves would be glad if a sniper took him out!
    Someone finally stood up to Trump? I hope his sex slaves are freed!

  20. #120

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    China orders closure of North Korean businesses, enforcing UN sanctions:

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.Wc0gFylvDJY

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    China orders closure of North Korean businesses, enforcing UN sanctions:

    https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20.../#.Wc0gFylvDJY

    Good!

  22. #122

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    I don’t believe polls anymore.

    Poll: Almost Half of Americans Support Military Action Against North Korea If Needed

    http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...action-needed/


    https://today.yougov.com/news/2017/0...-and-worries-/
    Last edited by KC; 29-09-2017 at 06:26 PM.

  23. #123

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    This Weapon from North Korea Could Kill Up to 90 percent of Americans, Experts Warn Congress | Big Think

    http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/cong...t-of-americans


    No, North Korea Can't Kill 90 Percent of Americans

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...-of-americans/


    What Is an EMP, and Could North Korea Really Use One Against the U.S.?

    http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...p-north-korea/





    Trump Claims U.S. Missile Defenses Are 97.5 Percent Accurate. That's Not Quite True.
    Actually, each one is closer to 50 percent.
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/mili...ense-accuracy/
    Last edited by KC; 22-10-2017 at 04:30 PM.

  24. #124
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    Trump's claims aren't accurate?
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  25. #125
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    howie, Trump's claims are the most accurate claims you'll find. In fact, I don't think you even know how accurate his claims are. All those people at his inauguration, totally accurate - it came from TRUMP. TRUMP NUMBER 1!

    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  26. #126
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    ^ Looks like we're both pretty good on the sarcasm, eh Gord.
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  27. #127

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    Ex Pres Jimmy Carter says he would be willing to go to North Korea on a peace mission.
    Jim, your 93 years young. Just text them.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...a-donald-trump
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    ^ Looks like we're both pretty good on the sarcasm, eh Gord.
    Sometimes I find sarcasm to be the best way to deal with the insanity coming out of the US. It's my way of coping.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  29. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Ex Pres Jimmy Carter says he would be willing to go to North Korea on a peace mission.
    Jim, your 93 years young. Just text them.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...a-donald-trump
    Ask Trump for Kim's twitter account.
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  30. #130

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    North Korea’s deadliest weapon? Its hackers | John Naughton | Opinion | The Guardian

    excerpt:

    "But the coup de grace came last September when the North Koreans penetrated South Korea’s defence data centre – in the HQ of South Korea’s defence network – and stole a trove of top-secret files, including American and South Korean operational plans for wartime action. The documents included OPLAN 5015, the plan for dealing with full-blown war with North Korea, which reportedly included procedures to “decapitate” the North Korean leadership, plus a contingency plan in case of sudden political changes inside North Korea.

    In the febrile standoff on the Korean peninsula, this was a tactical masterstroke. But it also indicated the strategic insight that underpins North Korea’s pivot to cyber operations. It suggests that Kim Jong-un and his cronies have understood how digital technology can convert industrial and economic weakness into a strength. The reason why major industrialised countries hold back from responding in kind to one another’s cyber attacks is because their societies are all desperately dependent on complex, fragile and insecure network infrastructures. So all fear the unfathomable consequences of retaliation. And, accordingly, a new doctrine of mutually assured destruction keeps an uneasy peace in cyberspace.

    North Korea, however, doesn’t have much of a digital infrastructure and so has less to fear. Which is why Kim may be smarter than we like to think. ..."


    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-sony-pictures

  31. #131

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    North Korea and the Threat of Chemical Warfare - NYTimes.com

    “The chemical menace from North Korea recalls a time when chemical weapons posed far more of a global threat than they do today. The doctrine of strategic deterrence — ...rather, it emerged from gas warfare in World War I.

    In the war’s aftermath, the Geneva Protocol of 1925 banned chemical warfare but not chemical weapons. ...to maintain a stockpile. If signatory nations suffered a chemical attack, they could then retaliate in kind.

    The United States Senate, convinced that the agreement was folly in a dangerous world, refused to ratify the pact. Many nations developed sophisticated chemical weapons programs, as well as biological weapons. By the 1990s, the United States had an arsenal of 27,700 metric tons of chemical agents, and Russia had at least 40,000.

    The threat of chemical warfare diminished because of the far greater power of nuclear weapons, but also because of the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention, which outlawed the weapons altogether. The United States and South Korea are among the 192 nations party to the agreement, and they agreed to destroy their chemical arsenals. North Korea did not join. “

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/o...l-weapons.html


    Pence to U.S. troops on North Korea: 'Be ready' - POLITICO

    https://www.politico.com/story/2017/...e-ready-244250
    Last edited by KC; 27-10-2017 at 09:59 PM.

  32. #132

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    I’m not really clear on how these mini nukes would differ from conventional explosives. Are large but convention non-nuke warheads significantly less powerful than the smallest of these would be? (And haven’t they long had the fabled suitcase nuke anyways?)

    Also, I would guess that the US military has long had current and continuously updated plans for a preemptive attack and/or response and would be ready even now. I’m not sure what Trump has requested that wouldn’t have already been given to Obama’s and Bush before him.

    North Korea: Will mini nukes become an option for Trump? | Fox News

    “If mini nukes are recommended by the review, then Trump may soon have at his disposal the ability to target a specific neighborhood with a nuclear bomb - and leave the rest of a city undamaged by the explosion.

    Each mini nuke could be tailored to the specific, necessary scale of destruction. For example, it could target and annihilate say a square mile – without the areas outside that mile being hit by the explosion.”


    http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2017/11/...for-trump.html

  33. #133
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    Sounds great for military installations and dictators residential living compounds.

  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Are large but convention non-nuke warheads significantly less powerful than the smallest of these would be? (And haven’t they long had the fabled suitcase nuke anyways?)
    My understanding (based almost entirely on Tom Clancy novels!) is that the US has long had "dial-a-bomb" type nukes where they can adjust the yield. But that was varying by the tens of kilotons. For reference, the two dropped on Japan were around 20 kilotons. Those would be considered quite small nuclear weapons by today's standards. I believe most of the US arsenal is in the hundreds of kilotons, with some larger ones in the low megaton range. By comparison, the MOAB that was dropped on Afghanistan was the equivalent of 11 tons. So literally less than 1/1000th the size of the two dropped on Japan. So yes, there is a big gap between small nukes and large conventional bombs. I'm not sure how small those dial-a-bomb's can be dialed down to, but probably not below several kilotons.

    See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B61_nuclear_bomb

    That bomb, even at it's lowest setting, would still be roughly 30 times more powerful than the MOAB.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 07-11-2017 at 02:26 PM.

  35. #135

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    The US has had teeny-tiny nukes for decades.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W54

    The W54 was one of the smallest nuclear warheads deployed by the United States. It was a very compact implosion-type nuclear weapon design, designed for tactical use and had a very low yield for a nuclear weapon, in the range of 10 to 1,000 tons TNT equivalent.
    Heck, they got 'em down to the size you could fire them like an anti-tank weapon/bazooka/etc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_C...uclear_device)

    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  36. #136

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    Democrats perturbed by Trump's threat of pre-emptive North Korea strike | US news | The Guardian

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...h-korea-strike

  37. #137

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    ^ I think all reasonable and sane Canadians are perturbed.
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