Results 1 to 97 of 97

Thread: Glacier Discovery Walk - opinions?

  1. #1
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  2. #2
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,185

    Default

    Build it.

  3. #3

    Default

    i'm 50/50

    I am weary about development in the national parks as a rule.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  4. #4
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    46,317

    Default

    ^me as well, but I think the balance is well kept in Jasper NP and this could be still sensitive yet allow for some increased draw and education.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  5. #5

    Default

    If it looks like this why not do it. This is not too intrusive.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...g-heights.html
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  6. #6
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Jasper is great the way it is and doesn't need increased draw. Don't build it. When I go to a place like Jasper National Park, the last thing I want to see is development.

  7. #7
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    303

    Default

    Don't build that!!!!!!!!

  8. #8

    Default

    Its not necessary.
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

  9. #9
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    Not sure what sort of handicapped access it would have - but far from uneccesary - it might open a view of a geologically and environmentally fascinating part of Canada to a population to whom it is now closed.

    Parks Canada is okay with it - private industry is taking all the risk - let them build it.

    Referencing a comment in the CBC story from the Jasper Wilderness Society - I'll thank them not to tell me what will or won't enhance my wilderness experience. What arrogance. (The society - not you)
    ... gobsmacked

  10. #10
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  11. #11
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,480

    Default

    I was far more concerned about this until I read the actual proposal. The walk itself is to be hung on the embankment below the highway. The additional impact will not be enormous. There are plenty of private operations in the park, so I don't think that's a big deal either.

    And there're the profoundly ignorant comments by various politicians and activists:

    “Nothing like this has ever happened,” [Elizabeth] May said. “We’ve never had the alteration of a natural ecosystem space outside of a townsite to create a for-profit business opportunity.”
    Asides from the ski areas, various tourist cabin complexes, and a few back country lodges. Frankly the hyperbole of the opposition has put me off. There are legitimate concerns about this development but it being a private and for-profit is not one of them. There are plenty of for-profit operations ranging from individual guides to ski hills in the park.

    I do have a problem with the closure of the pullout/parking area to the public. Currently hikers and skiers use that parking lot to access backcountry areas and this plan involves closing that lot to them. They will be able to use Brewsters shuttle bus for free but that means their entry and exit times are restricted to that schedule. It also raises safety issues as hikers coming out late won't have any transport to their vehicles.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  12. #12
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,454

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull
    Frankly the hyperbole of the opposition has put me off. There are legitimate concerns about this development but it being a private and for-profit is not one of them. There are plenty of for-profit operations ranging from individual guides to ski hills in the park.
    I very much agree with you here. The "campaign" on Facebook that a lot of my friends were cross posting around was almost entirely concerned with "American corporations," "profit" and "privatization." Very little was said about what (if any) actual ecological concerns would be, or if they could be addressed or not.

    As far as the parking goes, I don't think it's too much of a concern for winter skiers. In my experience in the winter there's no issues with just parking on the highway itself and people frequently do. There's so little traffic in the winter it's not a concern.

    Spring/summer/fall that's another story.

  13. #13

    Default

    Jasper and Banff are already full of corporations, privatization, and profit generating business (hotels, resorts, ski hills, restaurants, etc). I don't see the big deal.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  14. #14
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Edmonton - Blue Quill
    Posts
    3,061

    Default

    As a former resident of Banff, I'm opposed to any such development. I have no problems with things such as a gondola, but this project looks to me to be far too invasive. I prefer the natural beauty of the mountain parks and would prefer to leave the parks pristine and undisturbed by such endeavours.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

  15. #15
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    As a former resident of Banff, I'm opposed to any such development. I have no problems with things such as a gondola, but this project looks to me to be far too invasive. I prefer the natural beauty of the mountain parks and would prefer to leave the parks pristine and undisturbed by such endeavours.
    A gondola would be far more invasive than a walkway built along an embankment below the highway. Having looked at the plans, the walkway won't even be visible from the highway and their are no trails below it so few people will see it from down there.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  16. #16
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,496

    Default

    Having now been told of the location of the structure, I'm more comfortable with it than before. Had it been cantilevered out from a rock face a few hundred feet up, then I most certainly would have been against it.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  17. #17

    Default

    Jasper and Banff in particular are both pretty much overly developed already. This won't make much more difference. Hell, a Wal-Mart at this point won't make much difference. They're basically "wilderness" for people who don't like wilderness.

  18. #18
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,776
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Not sure what sort of handicapped access it would have - but far from uneccesary - it might open a view of a geologically and environmentally fascinating part of Canada to a population to whom it is now closed.

    Parks Canada is okay with it - private industry is taking all the risk - let them build it.

    Referencing a comment in the CBC story from the Jasper Wilderness Society - I'll thank them not to tell me what will or won't enhance my wilderness experience. What arrogance. (The society - not you)
    X2
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  19. #19
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Jasper and Banff in particular are both pretty much overly developed already. This won't make much more difference. Hell, a Wal-Mart at this point won't make much difference. They're basically "wilderness" for people who don't like wilderness.
    You do know this development is not anywhere near the townsites. The vast majority of both parks away from the highway is undeveloped backcountry with some hiking trails and tent pads.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  20. #20

    Default

    Yup and so the developments spread further and further into the park.

    No biggie as I said. Jasper & Banff are "wilderness lite". Look at the number of people who think they're some sort of huge petting zoo.

  21. #21
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    I say build it.
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  22. #22
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,776
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yup and so the developments spread further and further into the park.

    No biggie as I said. Jasper & Banff are "wilderness lite". Look at the number of people who think they're some sort of huge petting zoo.
    I'm sorry...I have to disagree with a lot of the sentiment here...exception being the "petting zoo"...that I agree with along Hwy 16...

    The rest...alarmist...just look at a map of the parks and see how much is not developed....the area is colossal and 99.9% of the visitors won't even see that area...and I would not be surprised if 80-90% of the land mass rarely, if even ever, sees a human...yeti or Sasqu...maybe more likely...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  23. #23
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,496

    Default

    ^ Don't forget the Kokanee ranger guy.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Yup and so the developments spread further and further into the park.

    No biggie as I said. Jasper & Banff are "wilderness lite". Look at the number of people who think they're some sort of huge petting zoo.
    I'm sorry...I have to disagree with a lot of the sentiment here...exception being the "petting zoo"...that I agree with along Hwy 16...

    The rest...alarmist...just look at a map of the parks and see how much is not developed....the area is colossal and 99.9% of the visitors won't even see that area...and I would not be surprised if 80-90% of the land mass rarely, if even ever, sees a human...yeti or Sasqu...maybe more likely...
    I'm not being alarmist, just a realist. Some people want to get away from it all without getting away from anything. That's fine. There's lots of parks where the primary attraction isn't the towns.

    Build something similar to Piz Gloria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piz_Gloria) at the top of the gondola. It'll be really popular. Dinner on top of a mountain.

    I'd actually put another town at Saskatchewan Crossing to catch the crowds off the David Thompson Highway. It would take some of the pressure off banff & jasper and spread things out a bit more. The Icefields Parkway is geared more to tourists than people seeking wilderness anyway. Let's try to get them to stay longer while slowing the growth of the other townships.

  25. #25

    Default

    It looks a lame experience to me, but I guess all the tourist buses will stop there, and lots of money will be made.

    I don't see how its any worse for the environment than a skier, a snowmobile, or an ice climber chipping away at the glacier. Actually, probably a lot less so, so its fine.

  26. #26

    Default

    I haven't been a big proponent of this Glacier walk because the plans involve getting rid of the trail pullout in the area. Some great hikes in that area and convenient access that will be missed. But realistically this development allows more people access and its still possible to get to the trailheads by taking a bus to the area. If people don't mind my "B. O." after a 20km hike.

    Really if one takes the nature conservation view to the extreme there'd be no road even going to the icefields..

    Overall we've preserved our natural heritage much more than most of the planet would. Its a wonder the icefields parkway is as pristine as it is.

    Bring it, this development allows more people to enjoy the wonders.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-02-2012 at 11:52 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  27. #27
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  28. #28

    Default

    Why even bother with an environmental assessment?

    Parks Canada says environmental studies are underway and construction measures have been put in place to protect those species.
    Does anyone think that they'd pull it out of the assessment comes back with a negative report?

  29. #29

    Default

    When it comes to this government and its various departments, environmental assessments are more often than not a giant waste of taxpayer dollars because everyone knows there's a 99% chance it's going to happen anyway.

  30. #30
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    I haven't been a big proponent of this Glacier walk because the plans involve getting rid of the trail pullout in the area. Some great hikes in that area and convenient access that will be missed. But realistically this development allows more people access and its still possible to get to the trailheads by taking a bus to the area. If people don't mind my "B. O." after a 20km hike.
    There are outhouses and a parking area at the bottom of the hill (about 1/4 mile to the north). Across from Bridal Falls, or whatever it's called.
    Nobody knows where you are, how near or how far / shine on you crazy diamond

  31. #31

    Default

    We did a few days in Jasper last week and saw the development under construction. I am comfortable with it.

    For the remainder of construction I do wish they'd replace the malfunctioning "time left to wait until you may pass through the single lane" counters on both sides of the construction area with functional units, or turn them off. So many LEDs are burnt out on each that you can't accurately make out the remaining time.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  32. #32
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    So many LEDs are burnt out on each that you can't accurately make out the remaining time.
    Who cares how much time is remaining? You're "stuck in traffic" with 5 or 6 or 7 others for a few minutes and don't know when the little light is going to turn green. 52 km south to Sask Crossing or 100 or so north to Jasper...like every minute counts. Look out the frickin' window and enjoy the spectacular view while you wait for the light to turn green. Such a petty little complaint.
    Nobody knows where you are, how near or how far / shine on you crazy diamond

  33. #33

    Default

    If a roadway information display does not properly work, it shouldn't be in use in the first place. It creates confusion in a situation where none need be. If you bothered to read my first sentence, instead of cherry-picking the second one you could flounce about, you'll see I suggest turning them off as an option.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  34. #34
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879

    Default

    Opens Thursday

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...park-1.2624361

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...999/story.html

    http://glacierskywalk.ca/

    Don't care what the Jasper BANANAS say, can't wait to check this out.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  35. #35
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    46,317

    Default

    Concur about wanting to check it out, thinking an S2000 top down Jasper to Banff is in order
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  36. #36

    Default

    kind of meh on it. I've been to the viewpoint several times through several decades. Like many places in the rockies its a nice panoramic viewpoint. Looking up. The only reason to ever look down the scree slope was to see the Rocky Mountain Goats using it as prime habitat. That was really the number 1 attraction at this specific viewpoint location. Looking at the Mountain Goats. Which from several reports may now be too stressed to frequent the viewpoint area.

    This is being described as a similar structure to the one located over the grand canyon. One can certainly comprehend the motivation, and compelling interest in building such a structure over a canyon. Such a structure in that instance allows much more of a viewpoint deeper into the canyon and offers an amazing user experience.

    This one not so much. The view in this case hasn't been expanded whatsoever. There is no area, or terrain, exposed, that you couldn't see before without the platform.

    As Seaton, of the Jasper Environmental association puts it;

    “It’s a thrill-based attraction and I don’t know quite what the thrill’s going to be because it’s only 900 feet above a rubble-strewn canyon down below.”
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-04-2014 at 10:52 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  37. #37
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    46,317

    Default

    Cantilevered out and glass walkway...
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  38. #38

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Cantilevered out and glass walkway...
    Looking over a scree slope that isn't fascinating in and of itself for any reason besides the previous aforementioned Mountain goats. Looking down this a pretty routine view.

    Any Cantilevered walkway like this should have a compelling reason BENEATH to check it out. Such as the Grand Canyon, such as Hells gate, such as Niagara Falls.

    This one here is going to be a one timer only visit. I might check it out just for curiosity.

    Of course being a scrambler/hiker I've been to countless more fascinating and compelling viewpoints looking immediately down thousands of feet.

    This here walk out I imagine will be fascinating for the ilk that barely ever get out of their cars or buses. lol That Brewster is describing this as "increasing interacting with the environment" for those people.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Concur about wanting to check it out, thinking an S2000 top down Jasper to Banff is in order
    Shotgun!!!!!!

  40. #40

    Default

    Now we just need a McDonalds in the parking area so people can grab a snack.

  41. #41
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    Mike Hudema alert! How soon till KK rappels down the skyway?

    Seriously, such sturm and drang over something that intrudes on nothing does the case of environmentalism good?

    But yeah, let's take something unobtrusive and enter the world of hysteria ... joy.
    ... gobsmacked

  42. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Mike Hudema alert! How soon till KK rappels down the skyway?

    Seriously, such sturm and drang over something that intrudes on nothing does the case of environmentalism good?

    But yeah, let's take something unobtrusive and enter the world of hysteria ... joy.
    I think I'll take expert opinions of naturalists over yours. This large scree slope and glacier cold area was prime Mountain Goat habitat. We'll see how they do now that this has been impinged on.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  43. #43
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    Yes experts.

    Like David Suzuki.

    By all means ...
    ... gobsmacked

  44. #44

    Default

    ^ thats right cause david suzuki got where he is by being stupid....
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  45. #45
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    According to David Suzuki, we should all be dead from radiation poisoning from the Fukishima reactor by now - well actually - by months long since gone.

    Thankfully, with this I've logged on and won't see any more of your drivel for awhile. Bye.
    ... gobsmacked

  46. #46

    Default

    ^ Not quite... but regardless he has a long history. One error or lapse in judgement does undo a life time of work.. most of it exceptional.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  47. #47

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Yes experts.

    Like David Suzuki.

    By all means ...
    Are you trying to be purposely ignorant in this matter?

    Why?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  48. #48
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    Skuzefokkenme???????

    Wow - pot - kettle - black.

    A lot, LOT of the opposition to this skywalk has not-a-freakin thing to do with mountain goats, rather so-called privatization of the national parks. In other words, there are other agenda at play in this debate.

    Because someone calls themselves a naturalist, does not make them an expert, nor does it mean what they say is true.

    Perhaps you also believe that because lawyers practice within the justice system that they all seek the truth.

    David Suzuki's whopper about the west coast being hit with a radio-active cloud from Fukishima is only one of many of his so-far-from-the truth lulus - but you probably think he's an "expert" too.

    I think that that you must have been looking in some reflective surface as you typed the word ignorant. For a fact, it was a willful statement.
    ... gobsmacked

  49. #49

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Skuzefokkenme???????

    Wow - pot - kettle - black.

    A lot, LOT of the opposition to this skywalk has not-a-freakin thing to do with mountain goats, rather so-called privatization of the national parks. In other words, there are other agenda at play in this debate.

    Because someone calls themselves a naturalist, does not make them an expert, nor does it mean what they say is true.

    Perhaps you also believe that because lawyers practice within the justice system that they all seek the truth.

    David Suzuki's whopper about the west coast being hit with a radio-active cloud from Fukishima is only one of many of his so-far-from-the truth lulus - but you probably think he's an "expert" too.

    I think that that you must have been looking in some reflective surface as you typed the word ignorant. For a fact, it was a willful statement.
    Relax. You're being ignorant of environmental concerns and dismissing it out of hand due to a vague opinion expressed about David Susuki, lawyers, naturalists. Did I miss anything?
    I don't think this denotes that you have an informed response on the matter.
    Your further ranting and derision doesn't really convince me you possess any greater knowledge in this specific area.
    Carry on I guess..
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2014 at 04:50 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  50. #50
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,566

    Default

    Are those horribly threatened mountain goats the same species (granted, different herd) that wander Hwy 16, oblivious to people, cars, buses and trucks a metre or two away?

    I was looking for the depth of your scientific and naturalist knowledge in this matter, as you feel free to be abusive to someone who doesn't share your view.

    Couldn't find it.

    But you seem self-confident enough of the breadth of your own knowledge to throw out gratuitous pejoratives with, well, more than just a small amount of ignorance.

    Sorry, I need to work at this. Clearly I don't have the pompous indifference to any and (it seems at times) everyone else that you do - my hat's off.

    Well, not actually. You are a short, mythical Icelandic apparition, celebrated by cheap plastic dolls in cheap Nordic tourist outlets. Know what I mean, wink*wink

    As such, I will go to the root word of ignorant, where I will add your name to a thinly list populated (it takes superhuman efforts to make me think so little of someone) by such luminaries as Alex69, Andy8244 and Expat.

    Carry on - into the wind, sort of ike, what (?) a fart.
    ... gobsmacked

  51. #51
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879

    Default

    Hey guess what, guys? It's already becoming a major tourist draw!

    CTV Edmonton ‏@ctvedmonton 46m
    WATCH: @BillFortierCTV got a first look at the Glacier Skywalk, that opened today in Jasper National Park: http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1 … #yeg

    Edmonton Journal ‏@edmontonjournal 3h
    Glacier Skywalk welcomes first visitors high above Sunwapta valley http://edmjr.nl/1kySOVv=1 … #yeg
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  52. #52

    Default

    ^^

    This is some of your earlier contributions to the thread;


    "Seriously, such sturm and drang over something that intrudes on nothing does the case of environmentalism good?[/FONT]

    But yeah, let's take something unobtrusive and enter the world of hysteria ... joy."


    "Yes experts.

    Like David Suzuki.

    By all means ... "


    Your response to another poster;

    According to David Suzuki, we should all be dead from radiation poisoning from the Fukishima reactor by now - well actually - by months long since gone.

    Thankfully, with this I've logged on and won't see any more of your drivel for awhile. Bye.
    Then you respond to me by basically calling me a pompous *** and a troll.

    This coming from you who knows more about this matter than David Suzuki, various naturalists, environmentalists that have fought this, and the Jasper environmental association.

    Its fine to question opinion, you didn't come into the thread to do that you came in to summarily dismiss any opinion that didn't agree with your pre-established view. I wouldn't have responded in the first place had I not found your input so seemingly dismissive in regards to environmental concerns pertaining to this matter. Obviously we have different views on this which is fine. I'll spare the details and the board of presuming what kind of individual you are. You're probably fine, but as in any internet discourse everybody can come off looking like jerks in the heat of discussion. Certainly I could have approached my rebuttal with more tact. I reacted with a pointed question. I'll own that.


    As if I need to clarify I wasn't in anyway calling you ignorant. Just ignorant of topic at hand. I find you to be reasonably knowledgeable and informed so thus my surprise to find such a presumptively, and summarily dismissive tone on this topic.

    If indeed I'm put on ignore this is I guess a "fart in the wind"..but figured I'd answer to this anyway.

    cheers
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-05-2014 at 10:13 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  53. #53

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    A lot, LOT of the opposition to this skywalk has not-a-freakin thing to do with mountain goats, rather so-called privatization of the national parks.
    This is absolutely it.

    But harping on about a perceived environmental concern brings more pizzazz to your argument.

  54. #54
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    David Suzuki is an expert though, in genetic research, if I wanted an opinion in dominant or recessive traits in fruit flies he would be the 1st person I'd contact. The other areas he is as much as expert as me most other people.

    But to get back on topic, I'm glad that unlike the Grand Canyon Skywalk you can take pictures, but I wonder how scuffed up the glass will get, at the Grand Canyon Skywalk you have to remove your shoes and put on hospital booties here each shoe will track in a bit of sand. Probably go see it in a couple weeks.

  55. #55
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    David Suzuki is an expert though, in genetic research, if I wanted an opinion in dominant or recessive traits in fruit flies he would be the 1st person I'd contact. The other areas he is as much as expert as me most other people.

    But to get back on topic, I'm glad that unlike the Grand Canyon Skywalk you can take pictures, but I wonder how scuffed up the glass will get, at the Grand Canyon Skywalk you have to remove your shoes and put on hospital booties here each shoe will track in a bit of sand. Probably go see it in a couple weeks.
    If people were only credible and allowed to comment on the subject they were most expert in Connect2Edmonton and every other online forum would't exist.

    Suzuki's primary training was genetics but Suzuki's career has been far broader and he arguably has more expertise in environmental impacts than most people.

    As for the skywalk, while I don't oppose it I am skeptical it will pay off in the long run. There will be a burst of novelty traffic initially but I'm more interested in how it's doing two or three years from now.

    I don't see a huge environmental impact from it and it's doubtful will impact goats on the slope below seeing as the goats and sheep are more than willing to crowd the highway. They're not terribly shy animals.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  56. #56
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,879
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  57. #57

    Default

    ^^

    Maybe I mistook Mcboo's comments. Being that I'm sensitive to environmental issues it sounded like a particular kind of dismissive view that we see a lot of in Alberta. A basic damn the environment view. To me it sounded like a post that ridiculed any attempt at those who would oppose this build.

    Indeed many with a protectionist view do not experience or respond to something like this in isolation but due to a gradual exposure to increased demands on our great protected resources. Indeed if the environmental lobby has been ineffective in this province its largely due to trying to compete with the ever increasing influence of big business lobby and govt's susceptible to that. So if there happens to be a lot of frustrated environmentalists that appear sometime ineffective, frustrated, and maybe even off the mark its probably learned helplessness operating. After awhile you just start seemingly pissing in the wind. More a dynamic of being a silenced faction than anything.

    If I was out of line I'm sorry to the thread and board. I did react, as I stated, due to frustration.
    Last edited by Replacement; 03-05-2014 at 06:44 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  58. #58
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    Its getting quite a bit of attention...

    http://www.designboom.com/architectu...da-05-05-2014/

  59. #59
    C2E Stole my Heart!!!!
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Clareview
    Posts
    8,778

    Default

    I'm surprised its not loaded with advertising signs or is it?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  60. #60
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,480

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I'm surprised its not loaded with advertising signs or is it?
    Can't see Parks allowing that, even in the towns they're very restrictive.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  61. #61
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    Having went there this weekend my opinions are this..

    Overall environmental impact probably minor some loss of grazing habitat, however there were tons of Bighorn sheep near the site itself, they seemed to be calm and grazing.

    The Skydeck itself was fine, somewhat misnamed as there are really no visible glaciers below, you can only see some near the tops of the nearby peaks. A better location would have been the Big Bend curve, but they probably didn't have the ability to select the site.

    Logistics... a total nightmare, Brewster had no clue about organizing the ticketing and queues, there were virtually no signs inside the building, we were given either no, very little or conflicting information from Brewster staff on where we should go to get tickets, where we should go to line up for the Skywalk or is this even the line up to go on the glacier or the Skywalk. Yes it was crowded but this was the first holiday weekend of the summer so if I expected it so should have Brewster.

    As they opened about 3 weeks ago they should have been able to work out the kinks in the process, but no it was a cluster-f of mismanagement for the inside logistics. If I didn't understand where to go I feel sorry for the Koreans, Japanese and German tourists who must have been totally messed up by something that should have been solved weeks ago.

    Once you were out of the building it actually went smoothly as the queues were managed better, people knew what they were doing and they told you accurate information where you can go to take which bus to the Skywalk.

    The view down from the Skywalk could be very nausea inducing, however I felt nothing although my step-daughter and others seemed very scared going on the glass. They have mounted mass dampers on the Skywalk so there is very little vibration and motion, and you do get a fairly decent view of the Sunwapta River below you and can see on set of smaller falls.

    All in all, I would rate it 1/5, once Brewster addresses the logistics issues 3/5, not the best value but still pretty cool, perhaps I'll go again and it does give tourists more of a reason to go to Jasper (about 100 km away).

  62. #62
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    Now if this doesn't give you a heart attack what would ...

    Coating on Sears Tower Skydeck's Ledge Cracks Under Tourists
    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...FlowFB_CHBrand

    PS: Everybody I know still calls it Sears Tower not Willis although some call it Whatcha Talkin' 'Bout Willis Tower.

  63. #63
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Strathcona - Mill Creek
    Posts
    5,286

    Default

    My dad went there in October with a group of people from outside of Canada and everyone loved it. I'm heading to the mountains soon, but I think I'll skip it this trip - my son is a little bit too young for it.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  64. #64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    The Skydeck itself was fine, somewhat misnamed as there are really no visible glaciers below, you can only see some near the tops of the nearby peaks. A better location would have been the Big Bend curve, but they probably didn't have the ability to select the site.

    Logistics... a total nightmare, Brewster had no clue about organizing the ticketing and queues, there were virtually no signs inside the building, we were given either no, very little or conflicting information from Brewster staff on where we should go to get tickets, where we should go to line up for the Skywalk or is this even the line up to go on the glacier or the Skywalk. Yes it was crowded but this was the first holiday weekend of the summer so if I expected it so should have Brewster.

    As they opened about 3 weeks ago they should have been able to work out the kinks in the process, but no it was a cluster-f of mismanagement for the inside logistics. If I didn't understand where to go I feel sorry for the Koreans, Japanese and German tourists who must have been totally messed up by something that should have been solved weeks ago.

    Once you were out of the building it actually went smoothly as the queues were managed better, people knew what they were doing and they told you accurate information where you can go to take which bus to the Skywalk.
    Visited this attraction, walked on the sky walk. Absolutely nothing has been done to limit the confusion. We're actually quite familiar with the Icefields Center. I wonder how any visitor in a rental car would immediately recognize that climbing 200 or so steps from the parking lot is the way to get in to the facility or to purchase tickets.

    next NO pamphlets were available on site to ease confusion. Pamphlets available on the attractions nearly every in Jasper townsite but not at Icefields center, lol.

    Next menu options posted on board behind cashiers. With nearly everybody reduced from nebulous and confusing description asking which activity is which. Because Brewster, incredibly, has gotten away from calling the activities by name but uses some inane names like "Explorer" package..

    No lines or directions evident on where to go to lineup. Several people confused, Arrows pointing in wrong directions to wrong lines. In the end being filtered outside after several queries to the parking lot where buses go. With a confusion of roped lines outside leading to a maze and perhaps the right bus line (inexplicably theres at least 5 lines in what should be two.)

    Just ridiculous confusion complete with rude staff telling you "you're in the wrong line" or "going the wrong way" when another staffer had already given erroneous directions. I suspect the confusion is organizational, escalated by seasonal staff who all don't give a damn and wish everybody wasn't there visiting this inane Brewster bastion within JNP.

    Scariest part of Glacier skywalk, or whatever its being called this week is the busride out there. Namely due to harried bus drivers frustrated beyond belief at what has to be the worst driving in the province around that region. Something about the icefields area being far removed from Jasper or Banff that causes the most erratic driving and passing decisions I've ever seen.

    Attraction was pretty meh. I'm not at all scared of heights so none of that got to me. maybe it does for some. Next no animals to speak of in entire area to be seen and perhaps chased off by droning diesel busses and hundreds of gawking tourists every 10 minutes.

    AS previously mentioned this scree slope is gray and unremarkable. A landscape basically devoid of life or color and one of the most mundane locations imaginable to place a Skywalk. Compounding this the glazing is not as clear as many I'd seen elsewhere for instance Grand Canyon, CN Tower, and very susceptible to glare so that you're not seeing below you as well as you could.

    Other than glaciers (and virtually anywhere else in region offers a better vantage point than this) theres only a small waterfall off in the distant valley that is of any unique interest.

    Finally, anybody that is adversely impacted by the skywalk experience be forewarned that no washrooms, seats, benches, are available anywhere on site to repose and I imagine if somebody feels faint they just fall on their face somewhere.

    Just a ridiculous facility with no facilities of any kind. Another shame on Brewster. But Shame on Parks Canada for allowing this pointless *attraction*

    Wouldn't even give this 1 star.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-08-2014 at 04:15 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  65. #65
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    Wow 3 months later and they still haven't figured out signs. Sigh.

  66. #66
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    edmonton
    Posts
    4,496

    Default

    I guess it's bad enough that we live 'up the road', so to speak, so we're not as badly impacted. But if I'd blown a wad on what, for many, is a once in a lifetime holiday, then I'd be severely ****** at such a mickey mouse operation.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  67. #67

    Default

    So I'm heading out there for a day trip to check this out... are we totally wasting our time?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  68. #68
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Red Deer
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    I wonder if Brewsters save the quick entry for their tour groups and leave the others to figure it out on their own.

  69. #69

    Default

    I was there in July and agree with what has been said re: very confusing with respect to getting tickets and the shuttle.

    Overall, it was ok but probably a totally unnecessary thing to have built. The lookout that was in that area was fine. Walking on the plexiglass is kind of cool but not for anyone who is afraid of heights. We did notice some flexing in the structure which some might find disconcerting.

    This has resulted in far too many buses making the quick trip back and forth from the Icefields Centre. I'm really surprised that Parks Canada approved the skywalk, given all this extra traffic. The last thing this part of the Icefields Parkway needed was more traffic. I feel sorry for the cyclists when they are going through this area. They will be very tired from cycling to get to this point, only to have to put up with all the traffic (and diesel fumes).

    Been there, done that, won't ever go again. Didn't buy the t-shirt.

    I don't think this bodes well for the Parks Canada planning process and the upcoming expansion of activities at Maligne Lake. Our national parks are not Disneyland and for-profit operators should not be having such a presence in my opinion.

  70. #70

    Default

    ^Excellent post Mark and agree with everything stated. The degree of traffic in this region now which was already extreme for a Mountain Park is off the charts in this area now. With diesel buses running people back and forth through this busy area every 10mins in both directions for several hours per day. The stench of fumes in this area is more consistent with Jasper Avenue than being the source of all of our drinking water.

    That JNP would willingly agree to something that so obviously involves unnecessary footprint in a vital region is troubling.

    There was never a reason for putting this where they did and its not a particularly good attraction.

    Why not have this silly thing within walking distance of the Icefields center so that extra vehicle impact is not incurred going back and forth to it. The view would even be much better from near the icefields.

    Not that I would really want this anywhere in JNP. Maybe overlooking Lake Abraham which would even be a better view outside of the park.

    But now were stuck with area overuse. Cyclists be damned. That whole stretch of highway right now is a terrible place for all users. To be avoided really. That's the really sad thing in this.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  71. #71

    Default

    I was there last Saturday. Walked to the ticket counter, bought tickets, and was on the bus to the Skywalk in less than 15 minutes. It was packed too.

    I'm glad I read Replacement's review. It set my expectations so low that I found it a pleasant and worthwhile experience!
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  72. #72

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I was there last Saturday. Walked to the ticket counter, bought tickets, and was on the bus to the Skywalk in less than 15 minutes. It was packed too.

    I'm glad I read Replacement's review. It set my expectations so low that I found it a pleasant and worthwhile experience!
    Heh, half the reason I disliked it is probably because I'm opposed to this nature of thing being in a National Park.

    Brewsters would run 50 attractions in the area if allowed..

    In anycase anybody that remembers the previous pullout it was actually more enjoyable and usually packed with mountain goats as well as mountain sheep who have evidently found somewhere else to be as I predicted earlier in thread. Really I found the experience and view of no real difference to the previous lookout. You don't see anything you couldn't see before, and now without the animals. Considering its like a Greyhound stop there and as noisy as one I don't think the animals will return often.

    If I can add, if one approaches this from Sask Crossing, or Banff this location and arrangement maybe makes some kind of sense. If approaching from the Jasper side it seems like a silly bit of detour driving past the thing to the icefields center, then parking, waiting, buying tickets to come back to where you just were, then driving the bus back, then driving the car back traversing the same section of road 4 times.. With EVERYBODY from Jasper traversing 4 times. Just to put the added road load demand that this thing creates into perspective. To visit this same identical lookout you really put in an added 30kms and an extra hour to stop at what just used to be a simple and well used pull out. Plus that you drop +100bucks(family) and Tylenol to see something that used to be painless and free.

    A pure and simple cash grab. As many have stated an attraction to visit once if ever.
    Last edited by Replacement; 20-08-2014 at 11:15 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  73. #73

    Default

    ^Rumor has it that they are going to have a fund raiser to Light up the Skywalk.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  74. #74

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Rumor has it that they are going to have a fund raiser to Light up the Skywalk.
    lol Don't get me started now..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  75. #75
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    Well, I for one won't be wasting my time.

  76. #76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I was there last Saturday. Walked to the ticket counter, bought tickets, and was on the bus to the Skywalk in less than 15 minutes. It was packed too.

    I'm glad I read Replacement's review. It set my expectations so low that I found it a pleasant and worthwhile experience!
    Heh, half the reason I disliked it is probably because I'm opposed to this nature of thing being in a National Park.

    Brewsters would run 50 attractions in the area if allowed..

    In anycase anybody that remembers the previous pullout it was actually more enjoyable and usually packed with mountain goats as well as mountain sheep who have evidently found somewhere else to be as I predicted earlier in thread. Really I found the experience and view of no real difference to the previous lookout. You don't see anything you couldn't see before, and now without the animals. Considering its like a Greyhound stop there and as noisy as one I don't think the animals will return often.

    If I can add, if one approaches this from Sask Crossing, or Banff this location and arrangement maybe makes some kind of sense. If approaching from the Jasper side it seems like a silly bit of detour driving past the thing to the icefields center, then parking, waiting, buying tickets to come back to where you just were, then driving the bus back, then driving the car back traversing the same section of road 4 times.. With EVERYBODY from Jasper traversing 4 times. Just to put the added road load demand that this thing creates into perspective. To visit this same identical lookout you really put in an added 30kms and an extra hour to stop at what just used to be a simple and well used pull out. Plus that you drop +100bucks(family) and Tylenol to see something that used to be painless and free.

    A pure and simple cash grab. As many have stated an attraction to visit once if ever.
    I can agree with all of that. They built themselves an attraction, which is fine, though I do agree it shouldn't have taken away something that was there for free before.

    It's not really about the view, it's about the engineering spectacle. Totally should have been built - somewhere else.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  77. #77

    Default

    I can't tell you how much I hate this tourist trap attraction and the precedent of privatizing our cash-strapped parks, even in contrary to their own mandate and guidelines. I was just about to write up a long rant, but it's done, nothing much I can do about it.

    I'll just say this. Banff and Jasper townsites are full of ticky tacky tourist traps for those people who just can't appreciate, on its own merits, some of the last accessible large-scale wilderness left in the world. This is a place, because of it's altitde and harsh climate, also happens to be a place with an incredibly sensitive eco-system.

    It just makes me sad that it's never enough.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 14-02-2015 at 05:00 PM.

  78. #78

    Default

    BTW, I see a lot of behaviour in the national parks that make me upset. Picking flowers, Harassing or feeding animals, littering, despite the plentitude of signs, pamphlets, and guides telling you not to do this. People are just incredibly ignorant. I usually grit my teeth and ignore it, but I have told off people in more extreme situations.

  79. #79

    Default

    The glacier walk doesn't interfere with anything nature-wise. My only beef with it, is that the spot was previously free. It should have been built elsewhere, preferably with a better view that was previously inaccessible.

    There's no shortage of untouched nature in our parks, no need to get all bent out of shape.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  80. #80

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    The glacier walk doesn't interfere with anything nature-wise. My only beef with it, is that the spot was previously free. It should have been built elsewhere, preferably with a better view that was previously inaccessible.

    There's no shortage of untouched nature in our parks, no need to get all bent out of shape.
    Well, it's the precedent that bothers me. And also that they tried putting a hotel resort at Maligne Lake.

  81. #81

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    BTW, I see a lot of behaviour in the national parks that make me upset. Picking flowers, Harassing or feeding animals, littering, despite the plentitude of signs, pamphlets, and guides telling you not to do this. People are just incredibly ignorant. I usually grit my teeth and ignore it, but I have told off people in more extreme situations.
    WE have some of the stupidest tourists I've ever seen anywhere. I've literally screamed at people to get their families back in a car and away from a Grizzly sow and her cubs. With last summer the location being right at the bridge to the Maligne valley. Idiots with nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, standing there feet away from the Grizzlies. Taking selfies with their backs turned. I thought I had seen it all. Never ceases to amaze.

    But yeah, people really abusing the Mountain Parks. Go to Maligne Canyon and you see it littered in places with fastfood, pop cans and the like. Just despicable. Its to the point they should have some cameras setup and just fine people as they are going back to the car lot.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  82. #82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    The glacier walk doesn't interfere with anything nature-wise. My only beef with it, is that the spot was previously free. It should have been built elsewhere, preferably with a better view that was previously inaccessible.

    There's no shortage of untouched nature in our parks, no need to get all bent out of shape.
    Well, it's the precedent that bothers me. And also that they tried putting a hotel resort at Maligne Lake.
    Most people in Jasper are bothered by it.

    Can't agree either that the Skywalk isn't interfering with nature. That used to be prime Mountain goat/mountain Sheep habitat. But with that contraption hanging overhead it makes a lot of animals skittish and for the most part they have abandoned the whole scree slope. Also the whole route from Skywalk to Icefields Center is now like diesel pusher hell with busses running back and forth all the time among all the trucks and other diesel camping rigs. In the summer that whole area is worth avoiding for the traffic. Used to be nice to cycle Banff-Jasper. Can't imagine doing it now sucking all the diesel fumes.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  83. #83

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    The glacier walk doesn't interfere with anything nature-wise. My only beef with it, is that the spot was previously free. It should have been built elsewhere, preferably with a better view that was previously inaccessible.

    There's no shortage of untouched nature in our parks, no need to get all bent out of shape.
    Well, it's the precedent that bothers me. And also that they tried putting a hotel resort at Maligne Lake.
    Most people in Jasper are bothered by it.

    Can't agree either that the Skywalk isn't interfering with nature. That used to be prime Mountain goat/mountain Sheep habitat. But with that contraption hanging overhead it makes a lot of animals skittish and for the most part they have abandoned the whole scree slope. Also the whole route from Skywalk to Icefields Center is now like diesel pusher hell with busses running back and forth all the time among all the trucks and other diesel camping rigs. In the summer that whole area is worth avoiding for the traffic. Used to be nice to cycle Banff-Jasper. Can't imagine doing it now sucking all the diesel fumes.

    I still think highway 93 is one of the most beautiful highways in the world with so much to offer. I recommend to anyone to travel and enjoy it, but it's important to understand how fragile the place is. Any human presence in this part of the world has impact. You can't prevent impacting the place, but you can minimize it. For the park, it really is a struggle to maintain a balance of accessibility and substainability.

    Yes, town residents were NOT happy about skywalk or Maligne lake developments. Unfortunately, they were powerless about it.

  84. #84

    Default

    ^I think considering that the most traffic found on the entire stretch of highway 93 is around Banff, Jasper townsites as well as Lake Louise and the icefields. With these all being areas that are our vulnerable water sources. The traffic in the icefields region is incredible and made worse with the skywalk that shuttles back and forth continuously. All that diesel spewing right at the worst possible location imo.

    Not to mention Brewsters being a company that makes a living on driving busses right onto the Glacier. Which was never consistent with what should be taking place in a protected National Park.

    We have no respect for water sources in this province.

    Anyway I've been happy that JNP is less developed than Banff and hope it stays that way for generations to come.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  85. #85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    WE have some of the stupidest tourists I've ever seen anywhere. I've literally screamed at people to get their families back in a car and away from a Grizzly sow and her cubs. With last summer the location being right at the bridge to the Maligne valley. Idiots with nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, standing there feet away from the Grizzlies. Taking selfies with their backs turned. I thought I had seen it all. Never ceases to amaze.

    But yeah, people really abusing the Mountain Parks. Go to Maligne Canyon and you see it littered in places with fastfood, pop cans and the like. Just despicable. Its to the point they should have some cameras setup and just fine people as they are going back to the car lot.
    I once saw the usual crowd of gawkers out taking pictures of a cinnamon-colored bear. The crowds were making the bear antsy, so it growled a couple times and started to go back into the woods. One *****, with his over-priced camera, and worse, bear spray on his belt clip, started following it. The bear, without warning, then turned around and false-charged the guy and the crowd behind him. The bear snarled, then turned around and ran back into the woods. It could have clawed that guys face off well before he had time to get the spray off his clip. It was a wake-up call for some people out there. But not for the guy with the bear spray who went chasing in after it again.

  86. #86

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    WE have some of the stupidest tourists I've ever seen anywhere. I've literally screamed at people to get their families back in a car and away from a Grizzly sow and her cubs. With last summer the location being right at the bridge to the Maligne valley. Idiots with nowhere to run, nowhere to hide, standing there feet away from the Grizzlies. Taking selfies with their backs turned. I thought I had seen it all. Never ceases to amaze.

    But yeah, people really abusing the Mountain Parks. Go to Maligne Canyon and you see it littered in places with fastfood, pop cans and the like. Just despicable. Its to the point they should have some cameras setup and just fine people as they are going back to the car lot.
    I once saw the usual crowd of gawkers out taking pictures of a cinnamon-colored bear. The crowds were making the bear antsy, so it growled a couple times and started to go back into the woods. One *****, with his over-priced camera, and worse, bear spray on his belt clip, started following it. The bear, without warning, then turned around and false-charged the guy and the crowd behind him. The bear snarled, then turned around and ran back into the woods. It could have clawed that guys face off well before he had time to get the spray off his clip. It was a wake-up call for some people out there. But not for the guy with the bear spray who went chasing in after it again.
    heh, they should call it brain repellent spray. If you're that close to a bear that you can use that stuff chances are you did everything wrong in coming up and surprising a bear. I say this in all cases except carrion and or cubs being present. its the only time bears will be aggressive. Unless they are starving and viewing humans as a food source.

    Bear spray is very ineffective. The bear would have to be feet away from you for it to have any effect at which point its going to take your head off then run. Or even get angry that somebody pepper sprayed it..

    Bear spray is one big false industry. Waste of money and it setups false security. Precaution being much better to have at your side.

    Putting it in perspective theres hunters out there that have shot charging Grizzlies with large ammo and the bear keeps coming..In the case of a Grizzly if you're even shooting you better kill it. Kind of puts how silly bear spray is in comparison. Spraying oneself in skunk repellent might be more effective..
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  87. #87

    Default

    I disagree there. Bear spray is effective as a last line of defense in certain circumstances, and proven more effective than guns and rifles.

    Last summer, a Parks Canada worker in Jasper, biking on trails near Pyramid lake accidentally snuck up on a bear. He was doing everything right, it was just bad luck.The bear pounced on him, and when he did, he punctured the can getting a good shot of spray in his face, making the bear run off.

    Also, not all bear attacks are defensive. It's rare, but not unheard of bears stalking people. (See that lady in Fort McMurray from last year). If you can get at it, a shot of bear spray to the bears nose and eyes might not save you from being maimed, but it might save your life.

    Effective to protect you while you're harassing bears? Especialy when it's still on your belt clip? Umm...not so much.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 14-02-2015 at 06:27 PM.

  88. #88
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    What choice do you have when you're not legally allowed to carry a gun?

    Bear Spray and a Bear Banger is about the only 2 realistic options.

  89. #89

    Default

    What other choice do you have? How about staying in your f#@&ing car. Idiots...

  90. #90
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    Kind of hard to stay in your car when your on a 3 or 4 day hike, which usually includes being on your own 2 feet.

    But yeah, there's a lot of stupid tourists that subject themselves to a possible mauling or death.

  91. #91

    Default

    Of course if you are on a hike, there is no car to stay in. I'm talking about the idiots that get out of their cars and chase a bear for a better picture, thinking that a can of bear spray makes them invincible...
    Last edited by lat; 16-02-2015 at 08:25 AM.

  92. #92

    Default

    That 'bear spray' roadside tourist incident really made me shake my head, and one of the few times i said something. To be fair though, most people are just @$#@ing clueless. Before, being allowed in the park, you should be forced to watch videos of bears ripping apart garbage dumpsters and car trunks looking for food, as easy as we could crush pop bottles, and then of them being destroyed by the park because they're too desensitized to humans to be released.

  93. #93

    Default

    Here's a scary article on something that happened on Monday.

    After glass shatters, petrified tourists rush off transparent bridge over Chinese mountain valley.

    The glass-bottom bridge soaring above a mountain gorge in China was meant to thrill, but on Monday, tourists experienced true terror after cracks appeared underfoot as they crossed the transparent walkway

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/11...n_4195920.html
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  94. #94
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    Gem, your link goes to the building and opening of the skywalk from a couple years ago... I'm assuming you meant to post a link to the cracks appearing in the glass?

  95. #95
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  96. #96
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    A similar thing happened at the "Ledge" in Sears Tower, FYI the glass can support about 5 tons so about 3-4 rhinoceros, so one top layer cracking will still support a human quite nicely.
    http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local...261079001.html

    PS: Yes Willis I know whatcha talkin' 'bout, I know Sears Tower has a different name, I'm being obstinate.

  97. #97
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,370

    Default

    Went on it again last summer, they had ironed out most of the opening kinks, better signage, although they still could use more graphical signs to help people who aren't English speaking.

    You can jump on it, and it will not break, (BTW jumping does freak out other people) even a sledgehammer will not break the bottom layers after a dozen blows.
    http://gizmodo.com/man-hits-glass-br...sol-1781878282

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •