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Thread: Blatchford | Neighbourhood Master Plan | Discussion/Rumours

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    Default Blatchford | Neighbourhood Master Plan | Discussion/Rumours

    Downtown airport design contest set to start

    Last Updated: Monday, March 8, 2010 | 9:05 AM MT Comments15Recommend3

    CBC News


    An international design competition for the redevelopment of Edmonton's City Centre Airport is slated to begin at the end of March. (CBC)An international design competition for the controversial redevelopment of Edmonton's City Centre Airport is scheduled to start at the end of March.
    The city plans to invite architects and planners to transform the land into an "ecologically-advanced, transit-oriented" community.
    The development, which will be home to 30,000 people, will include a mix of medium and high density housing, as well as business and residential developments.
    It aims to use 100 per cent renewable energy.
    Rick Daviss, Edmonton's manager of corporate properties, said there has already been interest from companies around the globe.
    "We have one from Europe, we've had several out of the United States," he said. "They've said, 'This is an area of the future and we would like to participate.'"
    He said the city is looking for companies that can push the limits of technology, calling it "a living laboratory."
    "We're opening this up and trying to invite interest from across the world … and we really want to be leading edge and try some of those innovative things," Daviss said.


    Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/st...#ixzz0hcAb0ToH

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    100% awesome... although incurably complicated it seems.
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    bring it on.

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    Brilliant! Lets get it moving!
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    Edmonton Suns take on things...

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo.../13157806.html

    Mayor Stephen Mandel is excited to see the redevelopment of the City Centre Airport lands move forward, with an international design competition slated for late March.
    The report "is a bit broad-based but it really starts to hit all the high points that council wanted to hit. And it's a good basis for us to move forward," Mandel said Monday morning.
    "I think it's going to create the most sustainable, creative development of its size in the world and create opportunities for us to do things that we couldn't before because it's a 600-acre piece of property to develop."
    According to a city report to be discussed in Wednesday's council meeting, the lands will be home to about 30,000 Edmontonians with residential and business developments that use 100% renewable energy.
    Housing types include affordable and market-price, family and high-density, with plenty of parks, green space and natural areas, and integration with the LRT system.

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    Is there some sort of a lawsuit going on Re. CCA?

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    To all would-be designers: Don't forget a school. A kid can't get edumacated at trendy street-level shoe stores and bistros.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    30.000 (residents) x 0.25 (percent of population under 20 in Canada) = 7,500. Is that enough to justify the opening of new schools or can that number be absorbed by the existing infastructure?

    ...Obviously an extremely crude calculation, but I think its clear that a little more in-depth study is necessary before confirming any new schools for the CCA lands.

    As for the article itself, I'm curious which firm in Europe indicated interest?

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    Cool! I can't wait to see what ideas are out there. Congrats to the City of Edmonton for going this route, I'm sure there will be great things that come of this.

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    Well I will be very curious what kind of plans will come about. I really hope that there will be some weird and wonderful ideas brought to the table. One idea that could very much bring attention to the city and create a landmark would be a building similar to the proposed "Sky City" in Tokyo.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I would like to see some more "lower income" places in the form of box cars from the railway on the north end of the development near the Yellowhead... would be fitting for the location near the trains.
    Last edited by etownboarder; 09-03-2010 at 10:57 AM.

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    ^The homes north of the railyards are much closer than this will be, are relatively inexpensive, and aren't box cars. Don't be stupid.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    This is stupid?



    http://grassrootsmodern.com/2008/04/...condo-in-utah/

    I think it's pretty cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    Is there some sort of a lawsuit going on Re. CCA?
    Yes.

    I wouldn't expect it to stop any planning, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    This is stupid?



    http://grassrootsmodern.com/2008/04/...condo-in-utah/

    I think it's pretty cool.
    Cool as they may be, those use shipping containers, not boxcars. And it doesn't really fit the aviation theme. Also not very applicable in our climate, by the time you properly insulated them, they'd either be too small inside or not resemble anything special outside, so why not just use normal building technology? Likely would require a ton of heating as well, thereby throwing the green part of it out the window.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Boxcar/railcar... whatever, practically the same thing without the wheels. It's not as if something similar couldn't be built our of railcars. It was just an idea...

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    I like that idea. Well remember as much as there may be an aviation theme, there can also be a partial railway theme. Although something like that might fit really well on the rail lands on the southside next to 103st.

    Regarding the lawsuit, anyone have details as to what is the exact thing being sued?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I hope they provide significant land to NAIT for expansion, a good chunk to the aviation museum to educate and pay homage, create an office park on the north edge fronting the yellowhead, place an LRT station in the middle to serve NAIT and this new community, and create various forms of housing to accommodate many demographics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Boxcar/railcar... whatever, practically the same thing without the wheels. It's not as if something similar couldn't be built our of railcars. It was just an idea...
    Actually, it's pretty unlikely something like this could be built using railcars, which are not designed to be load-bearing and stacked like shipping containers are.
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    Well... shipping containers are often placed on the back of railcars.

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    ^ Yes, the flatbed kind that are designed for holding shipping containers. How do you propose to use a flatbed car for building?

    ETA: This is a standard railcar, which is enclosed but not stackable:

    (Source)

    This is an intermodal flatbed with shipping containers stacked on it:

    (Source)
    Last edited by RTA; 09-03-2010 at 12:58 PM.
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    TEUs people TEUs
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    I wonder how much space NAIT is looking for to expand by. Also too, if/when they expand, I hope that NAIT does it smartly and uses the space wisely.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    It would be cool if they could somehow incorporate a new VIA rail station into the development.
    Mike

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    Actually it would be nice if it were the VIA rail and Greyhound bus station, with an LRT stop at that station.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Actually it would be nice if it were the VIA rail and Greyhound bus station, with an LRT stop at that station.
    That would be very nice. At least have easy access between the LRT and VIA stations

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    ^ A great improvement over the current station, which I believe isn't at all serviced by ETS...
    Mike

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    Quote Originally Posted by ike9126 View Post
    ^ A great improvement over the current station, which I believe isn't at all serviced by ETS...
    Correct, the current station sucks.

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    ^and the VIA service sucks too! If we could get daily service for both directions it could become an option for more people to take the train.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    TEUs people TEUs
    TEU is a unit of measure, not an acronym for shipping containers.

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    Good to see them moving quickly on the redevelopment. They obviously want to get it underway ASAP so as to make it impossible for people like Tony Caterina and the AEG to bring it up as a ballot issue in a future municipal election.

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    Default Competition to redevelop City Centre Airport launched

    EDMONTON — The City of Edmonton kicked off its massive redevelopment of the City Centre Airport lands Wednesday when it started the search for a team to create a master plan for the site.
    Councillors have approved principles that will eventually see the 217-hectare property turned into an environmentally sustainable community for up to 30,000 residents.
    About a dozen firms from around the world are expected to take part in the first stage of the design competition by providing their qualifications, experience and initial ideas for what could be done, Mayor Stephen Mandel said.
    Up to five finalists chosen July 15 will receive $25,000 each to submit design proposals, with a winner likely to be picked by the end of the year.


    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz0oOehGY7Z
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    looking forward to seeing what comes of this...
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    isn't the whole thing up to the courts? seems like c confident move to spend all that cash if there is a legal battle afoot. waiting for enlightenment...

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    maybe this is an opportunity to have multiple firms working together, the site is big enough.

    this really is an absolutely amazing opportunity for any design firms from around the world to showcase their best.

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    Consulting the RFQ, that's exactly what the City is looking for it seems RichardW. A collaboraive effort, bringing together various experts in the fields of design, landscape, energy, and sustainability.

    The groundwork has been laid for a terrific project and what should be a model community for Edmonton, for Canada, and really for any Northern City around the world. As a designer and as an Edmontonian, I couldn't be more excited. Lets hope the quality of applicants measures up....

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    I hope that potential designers will consider incorporating ecological goods and services into the plan (ex: wetlands for water filtration and rain water collection, maintaining biodiversity through the use of native-only vegetation).

    Overall, this looks like it could be a really transformative project for the city. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it doesnt turn into another 4-floor plywood stucco condo community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    maybe this is an opportunity to have multiple firms working together, the site is big enough.

    this really is an absolutely amazing opportunity for any design firms from around the world to showcase their best.
    ^There will be multiple firms collaborating on this, trust me.

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    The submissions have been released for public consumption:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...nd-videos.aspx

    Lots of large PDF files. Haven't had any time to plow through them just yet.

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    ^ Not sure if it's my computer - or the city's server - but the PDF and video files are both freezing up on me.
    ... gobsmacked

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    ^mine too, I got through the first couple videos, but now it is super slow.

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    ^ Mine too

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    After getting frozen pdfs, I directly downloaded all pdf links to my computer.

    Only looked at BNIMECCA and F&P so far... I'm pretty surprised to see BNIMECCA's concept. Interesting to look at, not sure anyone here would go for it.
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    On the video side I like KCAP and SWECO the best. Would be amazing! Of course it might be because I like the pretty pictures! The pdf files are huge. Now to check those out.
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    They should have told each company to submit a lower res .pdf; what we are looking at are HUGE .pdf's that are over 10 MB (!) that are meant to be plotted at 2' by 3' which is overkill! They need be only about 400K for online viewing, which is how the majority of people will be viewing them. Its really not practical to be viewing these huge files.

    On a sidenote: SWECO says Edmontonians has the WORST carbon footprint in all of Canada, and if the whole world consumed like we did, we would need 4 planets??
    Any truth to this? A pretty bold statement, kind of a slap in the face just .10 seconds into the video!
    Last edited by nzuk; 15-02-2011 at 01:04 PM.
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    SWECO was very preachy. I think I like the Netheralnds group the best. They even include what I had suggested a very long time ago: allow planes to land on water

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    I am sure that "They" will get the propellerheads in gear at the City to set up lower res f(friendlier) files but felt it was more important to get something out.
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    They even include what I had suggested a very long time ago: allow planes to land on water
    Good for you Grish, I would have laughed and mocked that idea (acutally, it does still sound a bit odd to have Seaplanes operating in Edmonton when we are surrounded by land, and our water is frozen 8/12ths of the year).

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    ^ think "fishing/ hunting and hiking trips"...

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    ^OK, to the lakes and rivers in summer? That makes sense I guess.

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    Based on the videos alone, my preference is:

    1. KCAP Architects & Planners from Rotterdam, Netherlands

    2. Perkins + Will, Vancouver, Canada

    7. Sweco International AB, Stockholm, Sweden

    17. Foster & Partners, from London, UK

    23. BNIM, from Kansas City, USA

    I would like to mention that only two of the videos have any sort of reference to some thing that is a major part of our existence: winter. Guess who thought of that strange, seasonal phenomenon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    SWECO was very preachy. I think I like the Netheralnds group the best. They even include what I had suggested a very long time ago: allow planes to land on water
    Yeah, the Sweco video was both patronizing and condescending. A shame, because it could detract from their overall plan, which has a lot of merit.

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    ^I can't download the files very well, but I think with Sweco they might not have realized they came across that way. Its probably a language thing (although they should maybe have sought some help on that).

    From the little pictures, the Vancouver one with the little gardens looks cute.

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    My two favs were:

    KCAP Architects & Planners from Rotterdam, Netherlands

    Sweco International AB, Stockholm, Sweden

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    Perhaps a MOD can toss in an unscientific poll so that C2E'ers can rank the proposals?

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    ^ Good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    SWECO was very preachy. I think I like the Netheralnds group the best. They even include what I had suggested a very long time ago: allow planes to land on water
    I don't think it was preachy at all; it might be a little uncomfortable to be reminded of our carbon footprint, but that's all that was said before they went into their solution. I guess I thought environmental over-performance to compensate for our glaring sprawl was a given aspect of this competition?
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    ^ I was mostly talking about how they ended "Edmontonians will need to learn how to live this way but with our help they just might be able to do it" line.

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    Yes, but a whole lot of Edmontonians don't embrace a sustainable lifestyle. After saying we have an opportunity to be a showcase, verbatim:

    "Continuing education will be required to have Edmontonians embrace a sustainable lifestyle and change the direction of Edmonton's future, towards creating a world-renowned, sustainable, attractive and liveable city—The Edmonton Model of sustainability.

    *shrug* Be offended if you want; I only heard the somewhat bluntly—nay, Swedisly—delivered truth.
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    ok, so what I am saying is this: the five groups were asked to deliver proposals that are sustainable, energy efficient, etc.. I.e. we (and by "we" I mean enough of us that our leadership has made that an important aspect of the solicitation of proposals) already get it. The people who would move into that community also "get it". So, being told that this way is good for us is at the very least redundant and at worst preachy. I am taking in in the "worst" way.

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    My thoughts from SSP:

    They're all strong submissions that vary along a similar theme (e.g. circulation and locally inspired park systems following the layout of the old runways). BNIM is certainly the most unique; it took me a while to figure out exactly what they are proposing. It's interesting, but potentially a bit too themeatic for my tastes; plus, the topograhical requirements limit flexibility of built form, which seems potentially problematic on a long-term market driven build-out.

    Sweco doesn't particularly stand-out for me. I prefer the large parkland offered by Perkins (apparently, the only ones who recognized that LRT comes off 106st, not 109) Foster, and KCAP. Honestly though, we can't go wrong with any of them; they're all a vast step up for Edmonton - provided something similar to what is envisioned is built.

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    The only one that I don't like very much is the submission fom MNIM (Kansas City).

    Unlike the rest of them, their designs don't look like they would make a place that I would love to live. It doesn't look like it would fit in with the rest of the city at all, nor any city in North America, for that matter.

  64. #64

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    I like MNIM's ideas but I do think they've emphasized themeatic context (i.e. natural prairie landscape and river valley) over the urban context. The other plans, especially Perkins, KCAP, and Foster, do a better job of balancing the immediate urban context of the site with an homage to Edmonton's natural assets, and, as such, it feels that their plans integrate better with the adjacent neighbourhoods. If you were designing a new sustainable neighbourhood, or perhaps a new town, from raw prairie farmland, MNIM's design would perhaps fit my eye better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    My two favs were:

    KCAP Architects & Planners from Rotterdam, Netherlands

    Sweco International AB, Stockholm, Sweden
    Those were my top two as well, only with Sweco on top by quite a way. I'm encouraged by all of the submissions though, and each had some things we could include in a final design.

    I also liked the Perkins & Will one (I think that was the one with Barry Johns). They seemed to understand Edmonton far better than any of the other submissions.

    I didn't find the Sweco one "preachy" in the least. The Swedes can comes across that way sometimes, though. Not in the manner of a David Suzuki, anyway. The BNIM one also began by noting our current lifestyle is unsustainable.

    Sometimes the truth hurts, but we need to hear it, and can't ignore it. Except in the conceptual drawings, of course. Has anyone else noticed how the drawings have very few cars on the road but often lots of smiling pedestrians?

    I guess they have to do that. Nobody'd feel very good about roads backed up with traffic, and sidewalks/park space with panhandlers, graffiti, and a bum urinating on a tree.
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    My take based on quick viewing of slides:

    I'm split between KCAP, Sweco, and Perks as my favorites. I like the modern, yet not completely alien styling of KCAP and Perks, as well as the water features. How usable those water features may be are definitely questionable. Sweco has a great "classic" look, and incorporated winter into their slides.

    BNIM is awesome. It really does feel like the rolling plains. However, that also makes it feel a little boring. I do think that they incorporate natural local parkland the best though. If I was to build a new city in the middle of the prairies, I would seriously look at this plan (sprawling suburbs, hint hint).

    Not sure about Foster. Perhaps not ambitious enough? Maybe too many dead-end cul-de-sacs? Maybe I need to watch the video to get it.
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    Interesting feedback guys, thanks. I assisted on the BNIM submission (i am in the video as well) so it has been a fun trip thus far... and great to see the 5 submissions against each other finally.

    Certainly some great ideas, interesting concepts, amazing levels of sustainability, and unique thoughts.

    Hard to say which stands out, but all should be congratulated.
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    BNIM's very interesting concept would be better realized in a smaller setting. Imagine what we see in their proposal was the design of the student housing to the east of Macewan downtown. The green roofs echoing the topology of rolling hills, but situated in a much smaller footprint where they would be appreciated from many angles and elevations.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    I've only managed to watch the video's so far, but I really like #1 (BNIM) and #5 (Sweco).

    Of the five submissions, I would say BNIM is the only one that offers something that is truely visionary and unique (nothing against the other submission). Looking over the master plan makes you use your imagination and I love the stratification idea.

    I found #5 appealing because Sweco did a really good job of selling themselves and making the master plan seem very attainable.

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    If someone could post a summary of each proposal, for those of us who won't have the time to wade through all the material, that would be cool!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  71. #71

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    As a Dutchman I simply cannot resist the canals and windmills of KCAP. It reminds me of planned cities like Almere. I really Sweco's idea of Edmonton providing an example for sustainable urban development for the rest of Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish View Post
    ok, so what I am saying is this: the five groups were asked to deliver proposals that are sustainable, energy efficient, etc.. I.e. we (and by "we" I mean enough of us that our leadership has made that an important aspect of the solicitation of proposals) already get it. The people who would move into that community also "get it". So, being told that this way is good for us is at the very least redundant and at worst preachy. I am taking in in the "worst" way.
    Agreed. We certainly need to be preached to about our lifestyle, but this was not the right context to do so. I also felt the Sweco proposal seemed like a lot of promotional material for the company thrown together, with not much in the way of a specific vision for the Edmonton design itself. It's unfortunate because I have great admiration for Swedish planning and design and expected the Swedish submission to be one of the best. I think in the end it was one of the weakest.

    Like pretty much everyone else I thought KCAP was really strong, and Perkins as well. I liked how Perkins integrated urban farming areas throughout the development. They were also the only submission I noticed that paid attention to weather patterns in the design (although maybe this just wasn't apparent in the other submissions because it seems pretty fundamental).

  73. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by debos View Post
    As a Dutchman I simply cannot resist the canals and windmills of KCAP. It reminds me of planned cities like Almere. I really Sweco's idea of Edmonton providing an example for sustainable urban development for the rest of Canada.
    The canals would be great for winter skating. I think the windmills may be a tougher sell, even though I'd be proud to see them gracing the city skyline. Also good is the idea of a northern sustainability centre at NAIT. A lot of the possible green technologies I see developing are geared towards warmer climates in the world; I would be proud to see this become one of our city's calling cards.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  74. #74

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    I wonder if the CN would be willing to incorporate the windmills on their land instead of on the redevelopment space? It would keep the noise down somewhat and could possibly be a revenue generator for the yard.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  75. #75

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    Well we know at least one firm lurks these boards

    'Edmontonians like to connect...'
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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    I viewed all the videos, downloaded the pdfs (what a pain) and my top 2 are (1) SWECO, (2) Foster in that order. These 2 are light years ahead of the rest. The worst was BNIM (good grief they are actually leaving a runway...what a mess of a plan). Perkins & Will better but unimaginative. KCAP lost in the shuffle. The City has an asinine survey site...seeking far too much detail. Bottom line is people can view the video and plans and can make their minds up quick.

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    ^The BNIM plan converts the existing runways into greenspace. It's not as though the tarmac remains as is.

    This from BNIM's presentation panel 4:
    The airport runways are transformed into the major green spines of the site; they form the ecological heart and lungs of the site. The North/South runway and Delta mix urban parkland with wetland zones and community garden plots. The Diagonal runway is an aspen parkland forest. Clearings in this forest habitat occur organically, containing agriculture plots and both active and passive recreation
    zones.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    I really like the Dutch one. A vote for the Dutch one here. KCAP
    Last edited by Drumbones; 15-02-2011 at 11:26 PM.

  79. #79

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    My favorite, by far, is the KCAP (Rotterdam, Netherlands) submission. I think that, living in Edmonton , we are deprived of a "view". We don't have an ocean, and we don't have mountains, and there are two restaurants that we can sit outside and look at the River Valley. The KCAP design gave us something to look at. Nice architecture, bike trails, trees, water, hills, canal skating, patios with views, transit, an urban feel, and roads that connect the lands seamlessly with the rest of the city. It covers all the bases and considers our true climate here.

    The design from Vancouver is beautiful for their climate, but their little outdoor gardens would look like snow or dirt for the majority of the year. The one large park they placed near the Yellowhead would be better if it was divided into many parks.

    The Kansas City design resembles prison cells built into the side of hills. The grass on top is only green in the summer. And what if, in the distant future, you want to build "up"?

    The design from London again gives us something beautiful. There were parks connected like roadways with a beautiful view down the center that can be seen from everywhere on the airport land. Any properties built (restaurants, homes, offices) would have a full or partial view of parks, water, or both. Winter skating and summer biking would be a pleasure.

    The SWECO design considered small housing for many people with great transit, and a very compact, ecologically-friendly design, but we have the land in Alberta to house many people and to move them through the city with our future transit developments. I don't think densifying the lands to that extent is necessary. The design doesn't integrate the road systems with the rest of the city and nearby neighborhoods well, either. What it also doesn't do is give us a place in Edmonton to be visually stimulated by some natural beauty outside of the River Valley or a ravine. I think the Swedes forgot that we don't have a mountain or oceans in Edmonton.

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    Just checked these out and wow, some amazing stuff.

    KCAP Architects & Planners from Rotterdam, Netherlands
    Perkins + Will, Vancouver, Canada

    those two were my favs. they really gave a pretty awesome vision for the future of those lands. I dont think I could choose between the two because they were both really good. one thing though, no windmills please and whos gonna be swimming in storm water ponds?

    Sweco International AB, Stockholm, Sweden
    that one is interesting. It could be the best one but i think i need to see more.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  81. #81
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    My summary

    SWECO I found to be very European. Nothing huge or grand in the plans but well thought out and probably would "work" very well in real life. Neat mix of buildings and a rational use of water features. Good incorporation of public transit.

    Perkins + Will looks fantastic on paper, but all that water is going to freeze in winter... could be a dead zone. I loved the idea of weather protection incorporated into the environment though. Their renderings were really good, but showed buildings in detail that they would be unlikely to design. Therefore the final look could be quite different than what is shown. Their ideas of linking geothermal heating into the rest of Edmonton are quite good, but I don't know if they ever could come to fruition. Very well thought out plan though, and covers "all the bases". It’s clear this firm has put a lot of work into their submission.

    BNIM I felt looked something like a hippie village, but a super modern and environmentally friendly hippie village. Their building form was very unique and would least impact the environment. The buildings could become repetitious and boring, with so many of them however. But overall I would argue an outstanding submission from the perspective of exploring opportunities and opening our minds to new ideas. I just wish they had put a bit more city life and vibrancy into it. Very appealing renders of proposed public spaces and buildings, however.

    Foster + Partners presented a compelling vision. Something that would probably also work very well in real life. I felt that their presentation documents were a bit lacking in effort and detail however, compared to some of the other submissions. More detail is needed to make a final call. I liked the towers along the park. Overall a disappointment for me, as I think Foster is one of the best architectural firms in the world (maybe planning is not their specialty?).

    KCAP - I really liked this one too. The water features were exceptionally well thought out. The park is nice, but key is the clear density that is in the plan for the neighbourhoods. This is important I think, to create the vibrancy we want. Good renderings of ideas. I also think that we have to be realistic - and provide some public indoor space for the winter. They have provided for this with the bio-dome type structure featuring greenhouses and restaurants. Really super submission.

    It is pretty difficult to choose a winner. The committee will have a difficult job.
    Last edited by AAAAE; 15-02-2011 at 09:38 PM.

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    Default in order ..

    This is my vote ...,Though I wasn't too impressed with any of them really ,There was a a couple things in each that were great but ...
    1)KCAP
    2)Perkins & Will
    3)Foster & Partners
    4)BNIM but not to strongly in fact tied for a no with ...
    5)SWECO , not because they called us the garbage capitol ( most of it from IKEA lol) but because it seemd to have the least amout of " connect"
    with roadways and that like it or not is a BIG part of this city .

    What I saw from almost all of them was alot of 3-4 story walkups , and parks that most likely would be poorly maintained by the city .
    Givin the chance to create a new oppertunity in a populated centre ,I was hopeing for the taller exciting buildings that we have been deprived of due to the airport .
    I dig all the earthy waste less mumbo jumbo ...thats cool, and creating energy ...GREAT! but being as this is a once in a HISTORY chance to really show the world what is possible when a bunch of prarie folk throw the cards in the hat...I hope the final choice is jaw dropping !
    i just dont see it from most of these entries.

  83. #83

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    BNIM would be my top pick.. It's very visionary. I love the way they thought about the project in cross sections. I love the way the entire visual of the project will mimic the rolling prairies. I esp love the car free zone and the cross roads concept.

    If you want to push design and city design BNIM is the only way to go
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  84. #84
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    I took the time to just watch the vids.

    My overall impressions is that most of 'em stole my ideas from the C2E CCA redevelopment thread! Great minds think alike!

    BMIN - like their ideas of urban park space and retaining CCA history, but didn't really grab me otherwise. Hi Ian!

    Foster - their vid sucked, overall impression is that they phoned it in. But I like that they included highrise towers along with the man-made canals and greenspaces.

    KCAP - vid is slow to load, but very impressed. Manmade ravine and canals and lakes, extension of roadways (109 St, 118 Ave), mixed uses (agricultural, recreational, aeronautics, commercial, education, health care). A winner!

    Perkins - keeping runways, otherwise similar to KCAP.

    SWECO - they really oversell the Edmonton carbon footprint thing and toot their own horns. But it looks good, and similar to the KCAP and Perkins.

    If I had to rank them, it would be:
    1. KCAP
    2. Perkins
    3. SWECO
    4. Foster
    5. BMIN
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  85. #85
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    My Rankings:

    1. KCAP (Netherlands) - B+
    2. Perkins and Will (Vancouver) - B
    3. Foster and Partners (UK) - B-
    4. SWECO (Sweden) - C
    5. BMIN (USA) - C-

    KCAP, Perkins and Will had a lot of detail in their presentations, and I think having a ravine along the site of the 12/30 runway is a great tribute to the CCA.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  86. #86

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    SWECO is the most viable and unique for a North American city. It would provide the most liveable and functional of the designs. It gets my vote.

    KCAP comes in a fairly far behind second but close with Perkins. These two as well as Foster all made the mistake of having a large green area that DIVIDED the community. Edmonton already has a ton of parkland, why would we want to focus on adding more? we need to now focus on creating a denser, more walkable city. In order to achieve that we can't have huge wide open spaces in the middle of communities. They need to be properly integrated into the architecture and living space. http://www.big.dk/projects/w57/. This leads to BNIM's proposal.

    BNIM did a great job of combining the green space with the architecture and not just within the community. They get our environment/history much better than the others. In the end though they seem to forgo aesthetics (prison cell blocks) for creativity. If they tried a little harder though I feel they could come up with something that achieves both: ie. http://www.big.dk/projects/stl/. I have to say I really don't like the birch tree being used. Even though it really fits our natural landscape, It's a really boring tree that creates dull landscapes.

    If we had something like Bjarke Ingels project instead of BNIM I'd be all for it. Mind you it'd have to be more focused on mixed use rather than just leisure, but It wouldn't' be hard to accomplish this with a design similar to that.

    I didn't find any to be completely terrible, so that was really reassuring! I would like to get a bit more detail on these though. I didn't delve deep enough into the pdfs to get a fair assessment.

    Side note: I just had a depressing thought. We could've had a competition just like this 20 years ago for the South Edmonton Common region and right now we would have a community like this.

    Instead we have SEC.

    Last edited by Tkins; 16-02-2011 at 12:19 AM.

  87. #87

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    I feel that KCAP is getting the most praise here. While I generally agree that they seem to have the most solid plan, is it really visionary? Or in implementation will it end up being the same as every other new urban development, just bigger?

    BNIM really went all out on the visionary front, but it comes across as being cold, almost like a white-jumpsuit cult.

    Whichever one gets picked up, I really dig the use of birch trees. Such beautiful trees, almost like our version of tall palms. Problematic to contain though.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  88. #88

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    KCAP Architects & Planners from Rotterdam, Netherlands
    Perkins + Will, Vancouver, Canada
    Sweco International AB, Stockholm, Sweden
    Foster & Partners, from London, UK
    BNIM, from Kansas City, USA
    Does anyone know why there were no Edmonton or Alberta based companies? Must all experts come from more than 200km away?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  89. #89
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    These 5 companies were chosen out of the 33 that submitted proposals. Maybe local companies didn't submit any, maybe they weren't very good. Seems these 5 companies know their stuff and bring a wealth of knowledge and experience. I don't want a local company getting it just because they are from here, let the best ideas win, no matter where they are from.

    The City states:

    “We’re confident these five firms have the capacity, skills and sense of innovation to help us turn these lands into a world-leading sustainable community. The process to choose these firms was fair, equitable, transparent and most importantly of all, the choices were unanimous by our selection committee. Each of the five finalists has committed to using Edmonton architectural firms, engineering firms, design firms and landscape architects as part of their bid, an important consideration in our selection criteria.”

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...ition-lan.aspx

  90. #90

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    As a couple of posters have noted above, Sweco's seems to be the most viable and practical of all the plans. I believe it is the one that has the best chance of being realised from plans to what actually is built. Interesting that I did not find their video preachy. (Facts are facts, we churn a LOT of garbage here.)

    KCAP and Foster & Partners would be a distant second and third. Perkins & Will, too much water, sorry.

    And BMIN? If gets built, two generations from now we'll be saying "WHAT were we thinking?" Far too earnest and come on, the most potential to be bleak years hence. Decades later there would be head-scratching on this one like there is now on Jamestown in Toronto. The most chance to be a complete and utter failure.

    Case in point: This is a city with close to 17 hours of darkness at the height of winter. With this "prairie topography" design and most windows blocked or heavily canopied by the prairie motif on top, the light generation in this development will be abysmal. Um, this is a city we're talking about, right? Not a farmer's field?

    I'm nicknaming this one "Pet Rock" becaue it's about as useful as one.

  91. #91
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    Default New Airport Lands Plans

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...206/story.html

    Parks, LRT access, solar energy offered as options in new residential development.

    Placards, videos and displays from each team will be on view at City Hall until Friday, then from Feb. 22-28.




    Sweeeeet!!

  92. #92

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    I'm sorry when we describe something as "practical" it hardly inspires.

    I think it's very easy to write off BMIN because the design and premise is so very different from what we see in Edmonton and North America

    Amazing things can be done with things like solar tubes and reflective surfaces that will allow for amazing amounts of light to penetrate areas. Also these blocks aren't solid blocks, They are hollowed out and they are designed in such away that the southern elevation is lower than the north. To think that they designed this without light in mind is rather naive. I don't think the average joe really understands this design and I think that people are putting it down because of that.

    I also question plans that try to create an arts district or some other such area of focus when we already have said area in place. The plans need to ADD to the city, not try and move things that we already have to the airport lands. Thats just my opinion.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-02-2011 at 07:54 AM.
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  93. #93

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    I am all for this project and hope they have higher density and taller residential units than the proposals show.

    Just one concern.

    Rick Daviss, Edmonton's manager of corporate properties, said there has already been interest from companies around the globe.
    "We have one from Europe, we've had several out of the United States," he said. "They've said, 'This is an area of the future and we would like to participate.'"
    He said the city is looking for companies that can push the limits of technology, calling it "a living laboratory."
    "We're opening this up and trying to invite interest from across the world … and we really want to be leading edge and try some of those innovative things," Daviss said.
    Rick Daviss?????

    Is he not the City's point man on their last so successful project, "Old Fort Road" that was years late, 9 times over budget and has yet to build one residential unit let alone sell one piece of land?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  94. #94

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    ^Fort Road became a victim of the slower economy. This year Belvedere is getting road resurfacing and some beautification, and the next leg of Ft Road is getting the full refurbish.

    This project will be a success, it'll just take longer than anticipated.

    Back to airport discussion...
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  95. #95

    Default

    Some questions and thoughts regarding the authenticity of the 'sustainability' and 'environmental' claims the various planners are talking about:

    I curious which plans keep the old runways and which ones rip them up?

    How environmentally friendly is ripping up and disposing of the runways vs "re-purposing" them. How deep is the concrete and how much is there?

    What happens with all the ground that has to be dug up for the foundations, ponds, canals, etc? Are the planners recycling it for hills or trucking it away?

    i.e These are front-loaded environmental issues. It takes a lot of subsequent environmental upgrades and nominal gains to offset even small negative front-end environmental impacts.

  96. #96
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    "How environmentally friendly is ripping up and disposing of the runways vs "re-purposing" them. How deep is the concrete and how much is there?"

    or how about using that material for new roadways or aggregate... The concrete is quick thick, 2'+ if I recall and a ton there.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    i combined and shrunk the PDFs of the presentation boards and am hosting them on my site for an easier download and flip-through- http://jkupsch.com/projects/ecca-competition-mirror/

  98. #98

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    You're kidding! The runways are 2 feet deep!

    Think about the money and energy (and pollution) that would be involved in breaking up, hauling, crushing, storing and then re-hauling and re-laying the crush.

    Plus someone is going to get very rich off that contract!

    Watch the "vested interests" with their political contributions rise up in favour of the most destructive proposal.




    Time to buy a dump truck.

  99. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jdk13 View Post
    i combined and shrunk the PDFs of the presentation boards and am hosting them on my site for an easier download and flip-through- http://jkupsch.com/projects/ecca-competition-mirror/
    MUCH appreciated!!!! I was going to send the City a note to do that very same thing!!!

    Thanks!

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    no problem, though i'm not sure what the downloads speeds will be like off my hosting if a bunch of people are going after those files at the same time.

    the runways are at *least* 2 feet deep. maybe even 1-1.2m. concrete recycling is the best option, either crushing it for reuse as aggregate in new concrete use, or grinding it to fines which are reused in a different manner.

    depending on the stormwater strategy, concrete crush could also serve as a high-fracture aggregate base for drainage at the base of planting beds and bioswales. in this part of the world that ballast type is hard to come by as most of the rock is glacially formed sedimentary which is round

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