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Thread: The All Inclusive Smart Phone War

  1. #201
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    Nokia CEO Stephen Elop have shot down any rumors about Samsung or Microsoft buying Nokia cellphone business as saying that it is not for sale.

    http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/09/elop-n...-not-for-sale/
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  2. #202

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    Quote Originally Posted by lpasternak1 View Post
    Denizen, have you considered Android? There are several reasons why you should go with one versus a Blackberry or an iPhone.

    1. Variety. Unlike Apple, Android doesn't dictate what they think consumers want. There are models released on the Android platform practically every month. Not even Blackberry comes out with that many new models.

    2. Supports both Flash and HTML 5. iPhones and Blackberries do not support Flash, which is unfortunate considering that Youtube, several games, etc. all still use Flash.

    3. Sure the iPhone has that app store with over 300,000 apps. Most of these apps are duplicates (eg. fart applications). Several go unused and none of them are monitored by Apple. So you may get lucky and get a fantastic app, but chances are better that you end up with garbage. But if the application store still tickles your fancy, the Android market supports over 135,000 applications and is still growing.

    4. Google supports Android. Meaning that you'll be able to download Google Maps for free.

    5. True multitasking. You can have several applications running at once in the background.

    6. Customization though widgets, wallpapers, etc.

    7. Most phones come with their own operating system that complements and even enhances the Android experience. Eg, HTC Sense.

    8. Expandable memory up to 32GB through microSD. iPhone only comes in three sizes (8GB, 16GB, 32GB). That's it. So if you're looking for less or more memory, Android is much more flexible.

    9. Cost. Android phones are much more cost effective than the iPhone.

    10. Repair and warranty. With iPhones, the only place that can actually help you out when the phone starts breaking down is the Apple store. Not even your carrier can help you out with more complex issues. You have to book an appointment with one of their geniuses, etc, etc. You can go straight tp your carrier with any problems with an Android phone.

    11. Apple really messed around with reception. Death grip is still kicking around.

    11. If you're really after the touch screen though, you have to be more careful with them. They're more fragile no matter which one you go with.

    Here's some good Android phones from some of the carriers:

    Telus- HTC Desire, Samsung Galaxy S Fascinate
    Bell- HTC Desire Z
    Koodo- LG Optimus One (coming in March). Good if you don't want a contract but still want good coverage.
    Totally agree about points 1, 2, 3, 4.
    But about multitsaking. New update will solve the problem. iOs 5 that will be released soon, will give an advantage to iPhone.
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    Last edited by Eclypse; 20-06-2011 at 01:27 AM.

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    Oh HTC's CEO has recently announced that any FUTURE phones will not be locked.
    There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we’ve listened. Today, I’m confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience-Peter Chou, CEO of HTC

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    Things don't look good for RIM, lower sales, no new handsets and layoffs for the next few quarters. I listened to the earnings call and it was comical, their two CEO's are clueless and see this company falling even further into oblivion next few quarters/years.

    RIM to cut jobs
    CBC News Posted: Jun 16, 2011

    Shares in Waterloo, Ont.-based Research In Motion fell Thursday after it announced it was planning job cuts as it reported first-quarter revenue and earnings that didn't meet analysts' expectations.

    The company posted quarterly revenue of $4.9 billion U.S. and earnings per share of $1.33. Analysts had expected revenue of about $5.15 billion and earnings per share of $1.32. RIM reports in U.S. dollars.

    In after hours trading in New York, its stock was trading down $5.57, or 15 per cent, to $30.01 US.

    The company was not specific about how many positions would be cut in what it called a "headcount reduction."

    "This realignment will be focused on taking out redundancies and a reallocation of resources to allow us to focus on the areas that offer the highest growth opportunities and align with RIM strategic objectives, such as accelerating new product introductions," the company said in a release.
    RIM lowers earnings estimates
    The company said it shipped approximately 13.2 million BlackBerrys and approximately 500,000 BlackBerry Playbook tablets during the quarter.

    The company also estimated second-quarter earnings per share in a range of 75 cents to $1.05, as opposed to earlier guidance of $1.40.

    It reduced its previous guidance of earnings of $7.50 a share for the full year to between $5.25 and$6.00.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...-earnings.html

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    ^Lazaridis recently expressed frustration and befuddlement at why RIM's stock price was under such negative pressure. Sums it up perfectly, management just doesn't get it.
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    They really have no clue, they sat on their hands for far too long and now Android and Apple are unreachable imo. They haven't had a new phone since August of last year and their "new" lineup is more of the same tired designs, its more like Research In Slow Motion lol.

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    Yeah, their phone lineup and OS is quite literally years behind the competition at this point. And they're losing their advantage in business, as many companies are relaxing restrictions on what phones they'll permit employees to use. They better have something magical up their sleeves.

    And this is coming from someone who has been a BB user for 4 of the past 5 years. At first I thought the Torch as okay, but now that I've got a few months use out of it, it's really not even close to what my iPhone 3GS was (keyboard excepted), let alone newer phones from Apple or on Android.

    Maybe I'm hard on electronics, but in the 4 months I've had my Torch I've had to pull the battery because of hard freezes at least half a dozen times. And it frequently has 5-10 second freezes when using BBM where no keystrokes get recorded. What it's doing, I have no idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    They really have no clue, they sat on their hands for far too long and now Android and Apple are unreachable imo. They haven't had a new phone since August of last year and their "new" lineup is more of the same tired designs, its more like Research In Slow Motion lol.

    blackberry processors is too low, same old design, only 25,000 apps so far , too many software updates for blackberry 5.0 to fix bugs and finally why need ID with password ?? apple and android does not need ID to get apps downloaded.

    those are why blackberry is going downhill.
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    I was surprised to learn that BB only had 25,000 apps, very low considering how long it's been out (WM7 even has more).

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    WM7 apps will soon surpass blackberry apps in a matter of months.
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    The markets did not like the news, RIMM is down $8 to $27 in early morning trading (-23%). They might be a candidate for a takeover soon.......

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    Nortel part II... Penny stock soon unless taken over...

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    "With more than $70B in cash, Apple could buy Nokia, RIM, HTC & Motorola"
    http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...cmotorola.html

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    HTC will not let apple to take over.
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    RIM is what led to downfall of their own stock so here the link that is why it is happening that hurt RIM pretty bad .

    http://crackberry.com/further-explan...-be-released-1
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    RIM biggest investor is right about Steve Jobs is a much better marketer , sells over 5 million shares.

    I intend to agree with this guy about Steve Jobs

    http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/06/17/on...illion-shares/
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  18. #218

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    The big problem for RIM is they have been too slow to push QNX onto their smart phones, it still isn't expected until 2012. Part of that is a hardware issue (QNX needs multi-core to be really effective), but its also poor management in respect to the existing models that haven't been updated quick enough.

    QNX is fantastic software, but the share price decline is going to hurt Blackberry's ability to raise funds to release the next generation phones effectively. Revenues haven't dropped like was the case with Nortel though, I personally think RIM is a good buy now, I'm not brave enough to take a bet on it though.

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    RIM's "new" OS and phones were originally designed to compete with the first iPhone released in June of '07. Apple on the other hand has released four iPhone models since then and will be releasing their new OS for mobile devices this fall. For RIM's sake, not to mention thousands of Canadian jobs, lets hope the company knows what they're doing.

  20. #220

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    ^I think the QNX purchase was brilliant, but they made it too late and have wasted time upgrading their existing OS instead of rolling out QNX sooner. On the positive front, the playbook is basically refining QNX for the next generation of smartphones right now, it should be a worked out OS by the time it is released, and IMO it will be the best OS (stability, muti-tasking, and just pure user interface), the only question is whether it will arrive to late.

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    I think they are much too late to the party and QNX won't matter as it is still a year away. By then Android's Ice Cream Sandwich will be out (the merging of phone and tablet platforms with ALL devices using the same software/version), not to mention Appe's iOS 5 will also be out. RIM's market share has been dropping like a stone and with no new products out since last August (with their upcoming phones already being obsolete), I don't see them regaining any market share unless they do something drastic including firing both CEO's and adopting another platform (Android or WM7). RIM's only 2 redeeming features (BBM and enterprise clients/security) are being taken over by Android and iOS leaving no real reason to stay or use a BB product.

    They had 2-3 years to react and haven't done anything to stay as the leader, horrible management will be the reason this giant falls into oblivion and will unfortunately result in a lot of lost money in the market and many Canadians looking for work.

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    Google Reaches 500K Android Activations Per Day, 1M By October

    Written by Desire Athow

    The growth of Android is accelerating rather than slowing down, as the latest indication of that acceleration was revealed by none other than Android's head honcho, Andy Rubin, who tweeted that there are now over 500,000 Android devices being activated every day.

    He also revealed that the rate of growth is currently standing at 4.4 per cent per week; that's around 20 per cent in one month, or 75 per cent over a quarter (13 weeks) and, if the growth rate is maintained, Android will reach the one million activations per day milestone in 16 weeks from now, towards the end of October.

    Last month during the I/O developer conference, Hugo Barra, Product Management Director for Android at Google, announced that it had more than 100 million Android devices running in 112 countries with 215 carriers and 36 manufacturers on its partner list.
    http://www.itproportal.com/2011/06/2...ay-1m-october/



    To put that into perspective, that is 347 devices a minute or 6 every second.

  23. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    They had 2-3 years to react and haven't done anything to stay as the leader, horrible management will be the reason this giant falls into oblivion and will unfortunately result in a lot of lost money in the market and many Canadians looking for work.
    That horrible management was what created Blackberry though. People used to write something very similar to what you wrote above about Apple (remember the Newton for example?). Blackberry is still strong in the developing world, still has the bulk of the corporate market (even Obama still uses a blackberry), and still has a very "hip" image with the critical youth market (as opposed to Androids low cost market / nerd image). You won't hear many rappers crooning about Androids, but you hear references to Blackberries regularly, baller's carry Blackberries. You don't have to have the highest volume to do well (again, Apple is a good example, having topped Microsoft in market cap), IMO blackberry should aim premium not low rent.

    I think it is going to be an interesting year or two. I agree this is a critical time for Blackberry, where I disagree is I don't think they are out of the game yet by any means, despite the many misteps.
    Last edited by moahunter; 28-06-2011 at 09:28 AM.

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    But they are out of game, their two key reasons for using them are being taken over by Android and Apple. Services like iMessage will overtake BBM and business users have already started ditching their BB's for other devices. RIM shipped around 12 million devices last quarter (132,000 devices a day and falling). Those nerdy Androids are activating at over 500,000 devices a day and increasing 4.4% week over week, must be a lot of nerds out there or maybe its just cooler and better than you would like to believe.

    RIM needs to ditch both CEO's and move over to Android in order to stay alive, otherwise their horrible leadership and lack of anything new will have them being non-existent in just a few years.

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    Obama Is Sick Of His BlackBerry & Wants An iPhone

    The President of the United State loves his technology and for many years fanned out over his trusty BlackBerry. But things have changed—Obama now is ready to join the cult of Apple. That’s right—Barack Obama wants an iPhone. I don’t blame him. I was a BlackBerry devotee for years.Then the iPhone came out. I was jealous, but patient—I needed to fulfill my cell phone company’s contract for my BB. When my contracted ended, I made the leap and haven’t looked back. According to BusinessInsider.com
    http://live.drjays.com/index.php/201...-release-date/


    BlackBerry: How Our Infatuation Waned

    It’s not a good sign when the leader of the free world publicly grumbles about the dullness of your product, especially when just a year or two ago it was still considered hip, market-driving and cutting edge. But that is exactly what happened to RIM and its signature product, the BlackBerry. At a Chicago fundraiser President Obama was heard making the following comment about his BlackBerry: "The Oval Office, I always thought I was going to have really cool phones and stuff. I'm like, c'mon guys, I'm the president of the United States. Where's the fancy buttons and stuff and the big screen? It doesn't happen."
    Is the President’s remark an aberration? I don’t think so. It’s part of an overall public shift in the device’s market perception. A survey conducted by online market researchers Crowd Science in March 2010 revealed that 39 percent of BlackBerry owners would definitely or probably switch to an iPhone once their subscriptions expired. Why? Because BlackBerry devices have acquired a perception of being too serious and too business oriented and lacking a fun factor—which is the very dimension driving the current surge of consumer infatuation with smartphones.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/black...n-waned-2011-6
    Last edited by Hilman; 28-06-2011 at 09:47 AM.

  26. #226

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    The success of the iPhone ultimately lies in convincing every teen, stay at home mom, hip wannabes, etc. they need a phone with $70 plans because of a need to check their email and message on Facebook.

  27. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Those nerdy Androids are activating at over 500,000 devices a day and increasing 4.4% week over week, must be a lot of nerds out there or maybe its just cooler and better than you would like to believe.
    Toyota sells a lot of corolla's and camry's but it doesn't make them cool.

    Android is taking the volume market as any manufacturer can simply dump it on any phone, but that doesn't mean every manufacturer is going to make money doing that (this is why the likes of Nokia are desperatley trying to differentiate with Microsoft or similar). Apple and Blackberry have the potential to make more as individual companies with integrated marketing, than a Samsung or similar just producing a commodity phone, there is little value in being a commodity hardware supplier and watching google cream the advertising revenue.
    Last edited by moahunter; 28-06-2011 at 11:37 AM.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    The success of the iPhone ultimately lies in convincing every teen, stay at home mom, hip wannabes, etc. they need a phone with $70 plans because of a need to check their email and message on Facebook.
    i got one a few months ago because of none of what you had described. it is very much a work and communication tool for me. a regular telephone was not as convenient.

  29. #229

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    A friend of mine just jumped from Android to iPhone. He'd had an HTC, then got an iPad, and when the phone started crashing daily, his very positive experience with the iPad convinced him to switch to iOS
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    My neighbour just replaced his old flip phone with one of the HTC Android phones. I asked him what apps he had, and how he liked the phone. He said, "I'm not going to use the apps - it's just a phone for me. I got it because it was cheap; that's all I cared about." The specs say it's a smart phone, but for him it's just a phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Those nerdy Androids are activating at over 500,000 devices a day and increasing 4.4% week over week, must be a lot of nerds out there or maybe its just cooler and better than you would like to believe.
    Toyota sells a lot of corolla's and camry's but it doesn't make them cool.

    Android is taking the volume market as any manufacturer can simply dump it on any phone, but that doesn't mean every manufacturer is going to make money doing that (this is why the likes of Nokia are desperatley trying to differentiate with Microsoft or similar). Apple and Blackberry have the potential to make more as individual companies with integrated marketing, than a Samsung or similar just producing a commodity phone, there is little value in being a commodity hardware supplier and watching google cream the advertising revenue.

    HTC has been making money hand over fist with Android, their market cap has passed RIM and Nokia, so don't kid yourself that there is no money in Android.

    RIM has tumbled from over 50% to 14% of the worldwide market and will continue to slide into oblivion as they have nothing new or exciting and haven't for years. What have they really done in the last 3 years whilst Google and Apple have churned out new and exciting products and technology. RIM has nothing in the near future and a maybe in 2012 with QNX, I just don't see a future with a company who moves so slow in today's technology field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    My neighbour just replaced his old flip phone with one of the HTC Android phones. I asked him what apps he had, and how he liked the phone. He said, "I'm not going to use the apps - it's just a phone for me. I got it because it was cheap; that's all I cared about." The specs say it's a smart phone, but for him it's just a phone.
    This also goes for iPhone users, I know a few that use theirs as just a phone too (and for texting).

  33. #233

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    ^hillman, android is cool, the same way PC's are cool, or Nokias were once cool. i.e. it isn't. Its just volume software that been slapped into every device. People who get frustrated with the experience (since there is no control over whether the hardware is sufficient), will migrate to more premium phones that don't give headaches (even if they don't have as many whiz bang features) - i.e. Iphones, and Blackberries. That's where the large profits lie, Apple and Blackberry have to stay out of the rat race to the bottom of the barrel. Apple to date has done a better job of that than Blackberry.

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    iOS5 is going to be pretty awesome when it is released this fall. I am waiting in anticipation for the release. Likewise with Lion in July.

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    Moa, haha not going to happen. Androids are cool and I do believe they now have the largest market share out of the OS's (OSes?). Yes there was some growing pains but I think the hardware is finally going to catch up to the software.

    I think the main point in the Apple, WM7, BB vs Android is preference.

    Do you want simple, locked down (with the possiblity of jail broken) with great support (ie Apple Store), with great software that is designed for the hardware. Then get an iPhone.

    Do you want something that is geeky, can be altered, configured, or just down right played with to your needs, wants, and satisfaction? Android.

    Do you want something familiar, integrates nicely with your desktop? Windows Mobile 7.

    Do you have a BlackBerry? Like their form factor? Like BBM too much? In business somehow? BlackBerry is for you

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    10 inch playbook with QNX has been cancelled and starting to focus on superphone with QNX , once BB market the phone with new software, they might be back on track, which RIM have suffered losses of market share around the world this year.

    http://crackberry.com/development-bl...erry-smartphon
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    in my eyes the one fault of android is that there dont seem to be any clear minimum standards. there are a couple really good android phones but then there are a significant larger number of terrible throw away phones. Google needs to step up and tighten up the android standards, but since the dont really make money off selling their OS and instead are going for volume there may not be much incentive for that. its a bit absurd that companies like samsung and motorola can seemingly release 5 new android phones every month hoping one will stick, flooding the market with garbage.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    ^ I disagree, consumers like choices and every other industry has multiple models, its not like Ford has one model of car. People have different tastes, needs and budgets and shouldn't be pigeon holed into one model.

    But I digress, interesting letter from a RIM employee, a few exerpts:

    Apparent open letter from RIM employee to RIM Senior Management urging “It’s time to change the culture”By Ian Hardy on June 30, 2011

    “We are in the middle of major “transition” and things have never been more chaotic. Almost every project is falling further and further behind schedule at a time when we absolutely must deliver great, solid products on time. We urge you to make bold decisions about our organisational structure, about our culture and most importantly our products.”

    “We often make product decisions based on strategic alignment, partner requests or even legal advice — the end user doesn’t care. We simply have to admit that Apple is nailing this and it is one of the reasons they have people lining up overnight at stores around the world, and products sold out for months. These people aren’t hypnotized zombies, they simply love beautifully designed products that are user centric and work how they are supposed to work.”

    “We need some heavy hitters at RIM when it comes to software management. Teams still aren’t talking together properly, no one is making or can make critical decisions, all the while everyone is working crazy hours and still far behind. We are demotivated.”

    “we simply must stop shipping incomplete products that aren’t ready for the end user. It is hurting our brand tremendously. It takes guts to not allow a product to launch that may be 90% ready with a quarter end in sight, but it will pay off in the long term.”

    “Where is the guy responsible for the 9530 software? Still with us, still running some important software initiative. We will never achieve excellence with this culture. Just because someone may have been a loyal RIM employee for 7 years, it doesn’t mean they are the best Manager / Director / VP for that role. It’s time to change the culture to deliver or move on and get out”
    http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/06/30/ap...e-the-culture/

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    I like the part Hillman left out:

    "We simply have to admit that Apple is nailing this and it is one of the reasons they have people lining up overnight at stores around the world, and products sold out for months. These people aren’t hypnotized zombies, they simply love beautifully designed products that are user centric and work how they are supposed to work."
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    Didn't find it relative, if they are leaving for Apple, they are leaving twice as fast for Android as they are ouselling iPhones at a 2:1 margin, but lets not bring facts into the equation lol.

    500,000 Android devices a day versus 366,000 Apple products (includes iPads and iPods, around 200,000 iPhones/day).
    Last edited by Hilman; 30-06-2011 at 12:57 PM.

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    ^ and yet apple still is making significantly higher profits despite selling fewer items. guess flooding the market with garbage phones isnt as profitable as the motorolas and samsungs think after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    ^ I disagree, consumers like choices and every other industry has multiple models, its not like Ford has one model of car. People have different tastes, needs and budgets and shouldn't be pigeon holed into one model.
    The difference is Ford does not have 2 good models and then 10 garbage throw away models. all of their cars are quality. is it so wrong to expect some of the companies to not put out bad phones running old firmware?

    dont get me wrong, i am not a apple supporter and would never buy an apple laptop or tablet, but i just dont like where android development is going.
    Last edited by richardW; 30-06-2011 at 01:19 PM.
    be offended! figure out why later...

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    Default Letter from RIM Staffer

    Article that contains a fantastic letter with suggestions for the repair of RIM (and most other NA Companies)
    Article from Information Week
    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ness/231000798
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  43. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ and yet apple still is making significantly higher profits despite selling fewer items. guess flooding the market with garbage phones isnt as profitable as the motorolas and samsungs think after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    ^ I disagree, consumers like choices and every other industry has multiple models, its not like Ford has one model of car. People have different tastes, needs and budgets and shouldn't be pigeon holed into one model.
    The difference is Ford does not have 2 good models and then 10 garbage throw away models. all of their cars are quality. is it so wrong to expect some of the companies to not put out bad phones running old firmware?

    dont get me wrong, i am not a apple supporter and would never buy an apple laptop or tablet, but i just dont like where android development is going.

    Not everyone wants to spend $749 ($269 on a 3 year contract) on a phone, and clearly a lot of people want their phone to work for them, whether it's a bigger screen, physical keyboard, SD slot, changeable battery, USB or HDMI ports, etc.

    Do you honestly think most people know what firmware they are running, if I asked an Android user if they were on Eclair, Froyo or Gingerbread, how many would know wtf you were saying? The next version of Android called Ice Cream Sandwich will merge all phones AND tablets into one version/firmware. This will make it easier for developers and users as they will all be using the same software, no matter the product. Manufacturers will be required to maintain current firmware for 18 months with the new merged firmware expected to be released around Thanksgiving and will quash the "fragmentation issue".
    Last edited by Hilman; 30-06-2011 at 02:10 PM.

  44. #244

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    ^so ice cream sandwich is going to run perfectly on every phone no matter how crappy, from every manufacturer? The problem is there's just too much with Android, its being slapped in everything, and its getting a bad name becasue of it. Like all the suckers who purchased dual core Androids only to find out that the battery life won't get them through the day. There's just no quality control, this is why Apple is so dominant, and also why Blackberry have the potential to do better than any of the Android manufacturers if they get themselves sorted out.

    Its noted in that letter above, its not about the geewiz "ice cream sandwich" latest version gizmo, dual core, highest megal pixel camera, or whatever:

    The author calls out what he/she believes to be bad product marketing on RIM's part. Rather than focus on technical features that no one appears to care about, it should be focusing on the overall experience.

    "A product's technical superiority does not equal desire, and therefore sales. ... How many Linux laptops are getting sold? How did Betamax go? My mother wants an iPad and iPhone because it is simple and appeals to her. Powerful multitasking doesn't."

    Entice end-users to care about investing in the entire ecosystem based on compelling features, and sales will follow.
    Last edited by moahunter; 30-06-2011 at 02:19 PM.

  45. #245

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    No you're maybe partially right. But for all of its faults, Android is selling for a reason. Android is outselling Apple for a reason, and it is only going to get better. Also, I have little faith that Windows Phone 7 will achieve Apple or Android numbers despite all the control and levels of service they put on their hardware manufacturers. Android is selling for it's features and software. The hardware plays a big part too. I'm thinking of getting the New Samsung Galaxy SII because I think it will last me 2-3 years, especially since my poor BB 8130 Pearl has been an adaquate phone for me for the past 4 years...

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    Most high end phones have them including the rumored iPhone 5 and new BB's (most IP4 users I know can't get through a day without their battery dying), guess they will be suckers too. The new chips are at 45 nm which increase speed AND lowers power consumption.


    http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/08/n...for-smartphon/


    As for ICS, it will level the playing field with Apple where it will maintain a single UI across all form factors and will allow developers to create applications for both kinds of devices in one motion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    Article that contains a fantastic letter with suggestions for the repair of RIM (and most other NA Companies)
    Article from Information Week
    http://www.informationweek.com/news/...ness/231000798


    This is getting serious now. RIM has fired back from the “open letter” that was supposedly written by high-level RIM employee to RIM execs. You can read parts of it here (or the full letter here at BGR), but it basically blasted RIM for not moving innovation forward, failing as a company and falling behind Apple, Microsoft and others in the mobile space.

    http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/06/...o-open-letter/
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  48. #248
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    Iphone and Android have gained in US market share but blackberry have falters.







    http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/iphone...berry-falters/
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  49. #249

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    This is interesting. It seems manufacturers using Android have to pay multiple patent royalties, including now to a consortium of six firms (including Apple, Microsoft, RIM, EMC, Sony and the old Eiricsson) that has just purchased remaining Nortel patents for a staggering $4.5 billion:

    "No major industry player is as needy in terms of patents as Google," wrote FOSS Patents' Florian Mueller after Nortel announced the results of the sale late Thursday. "There are already 45 patent infringement lawsuits surrounding Android, and makers of Android-based devices have to pay royalties to dozens of right holders."

    In January Mueller called Android a "suit magnet," and subsequent events have proved him right. He summarized the latest round of litigation and licensing agreements in an analysis published earlier this week.

    "In light of Android's patent problems it's surprising that Google didn't outbid everyone else," he wrote Friday. "It could have afforded more than $4.5 billion but it doesn't appear to be truly committed to Android."

    In an e-mail to news organizations, Google called the outcome of the patent auction "disappointing."
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/...azines_fortune

    Further, it seems Oracle has just launched a patent suit claiming billions from google's advertising revenues, no doubt we will see similar suits from the Nortel patent holders:

    Oracle is actually claiming about $2.6 billion in damages, not the $6.1 billion its expert said it could be owed. Its latest filings are asking for $0.9 billion to $1.4 billion up front, plus 15 percent of Google’s Android ad revenues, which Google has said operates at a run rate of $1 billion each year. Meanwhile, Google’s lawyers call the figures “breathtaking” and “out of proportion with any meaningful measures of the intellectual property at issue.”

    That property, by the way, is code found in Java that Oracle alleges Google lifted to build portions of Android. Not all the infringements are delineated in the complaint, it seems, but one example of code Oracle says is stolen is found in Android’s in-app purchasing platform, which Oracle says is basically a stolen version of the same thing in Java. Oracle acquired Sun Microsystems, and with it, Java and its patents, in April 2009.
    http://www.androidapps.com/tech/arti...nue-in-lawsuit

    That's the exception not the norm though, normally the patent holders of software stolen by Google go after the manufacturers not google itself, which is why it seems google hasn't worried that much.

    I think I'll tell my kids to consider becoming patent lawyers...
    Last edited by moahunter; 01-07-2011 at 08:26 AM.

  50. #250
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    Blackberry continuing to slide to 4th as HTC has surpass in sales.


    http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/01/htc-to...tphone-vendor/
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    This is probably the best phone on the market right now followed closely by the HTC Sensation:

    Samsung sells 3 million Galaxy S II devices in 55 days, breaks previous record
    By Ian Hardy on July 3, 2011 at 8:33am in Mobile News

    It’s happened again. According to Samsung they’ve sold 3 million Galaxy S II devices in a mere 55 days, breaking their old record of reaching 3 million in 85 days with the original Galaxy S last year. Want an even crazier number, Samsung stated this has become their fastest selling smartphone and during the 55 day period a Galaxy S 2 was sold every 1. 5 seconds. The global goal is to sell 10 million Galaxy S II units and Canada will be graced with this thin Android on July 14th (available through Bell, Virgin and SaskTel).
    http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/07/03/sa...evious-record/

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    ^^ I have Samsung Galaxy S vibrant from Bell, still awesome device and loves it every minutes of it.
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  53. #253

    Default Can Microsoft and Apple Kill Google's Android with Lawsuits?

    But despite the appearance that Android won, the ecosystem is now facing the looming potential of doom. That doom could come thanks to Apple, RIM, and Microsoft's growing portfolio of purchased intellectual property and desire to sue Android handset makers into submission.

    Apple currently is suing HTC, Samsung, and Motorola in cases that stretch across multiple countries and continents [1][2][3][4]. Microsoft is suing Motorola as well and is using legal threats to try to force Samsung into a per phone licensing deal (as much as $15 USD per Android phone sold), as it did with HTC last year. Likewise, Oracle Corp. (ORCL) is seeking $6.1B USD in damages, claiming that Android is infringing on the Java patents it obtained in its acquisition of Sun Microsystems.

    The combined picture is clear. Apple and Microsoft have sued or entered into sweet licensing agreements with virtually every major Android maker (a few like LG Electronics Inc. (SEO:066570) have been spared, presumably on the merits of their smaller market share).
    http://www.dailytech.com/Can+Microso...ticle22114.htm

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    I guess if you can't beat them, sue them lol.

  55. #255

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    ^its interseting, all the devices seem to use some technology of others (I remember reading the Playbook is facing some suits). Its particularly bad for Android though, as the software seems to have just been pulled together from all sorts of "open" sources that aren't really that open. And google itself, isn't on the hook, rather the manufacturers.

    Maybe they won't kill it, because Microsoft could make more off Android than its own operating system for phones, potentially billions (?):

    http://blogs.forbes.com/greatspecula...for-microsoft/
    Last edited by moahunter; 11-07-2011 at 02:15 PM.

  56. #256

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I guess if you can't beat them, sue them lol.
    That's an interesting way to frame Google's recent failure to bid properly for the Nortel patent pool and resolve some of the many patent issues/costs that plague Android licensees.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    It's not as if Google doesn't have the money... so why didn't the company at least TRY to outbid the companies who did win the bids on Nortel's patents?

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    It's entirely possible Google may have much bigger plans in mind, such as going after the incredibly harmful patent system in its entirety. The patent system was brought in to encourage innovation, but it's become such a convoluted litigious mess I don't see how it does anything but harm it.

    It's one thing to patent a very specific thing. But some of the patents granted to Apple for the iPhone are laughably vague (and indeed I'm sure that MS, RIM, Nokia and others have some doozies). They have a patent on sliding your finger across the bottom of the screen to unlock the phone, for god's sake. Or at least they tried to patent it, I don't recall if they were successful. How is that something deserving of patentability?

  59. #259

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    It's entirely possible Google may have much bigger plans in mind, such as going after the incredibly harmful patent system in its entirety. The patent system was brought in to encourage innovation, but it's become such a convoluted litigious mess I don't see how it does anything but harm it.

    It's one thing to patent a very specific thing. But some of the patents granted to Apple for the iPhone are laughably vague (and indeed I'm sure that MS, RIM, Nokia and others have some doozies). They have a patent on sliding your finger across the bottom of the screen to unlock the phone, for god's sake. Or at least they tried to patent it, I don't recall if they were successful. How is that something deserving of patentability?
    Patents. D-oh! reminds of a case where Harley Davidson tried to patent the word 'potato' or 'potato-potato', can't remember which. unsucessful. but really?
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  60. #260

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    It's entirely possible Google may have much bigger plans in mind, such as going after the incredibly harmful patent system in its entirety.
    Highly unlikely
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  61. #261

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    It's not as if Google doesn't have the money... so why didn't the company at least TRY to outbid the companies who did win the bids on Nortel's patents?
    Why would they? Its the manufacturers on the hook, not them, they make their money from advertising revenue, not the software. This is why I guess they didn't care when the programers of theirs just starting stealing other companies code without any real tracking of the financial consequences.

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    The patent system is definitely a mess and right now the players are pretty much forced to play the game. Google's solution is ingenious: dump it on hardware manufacturers.

    A point on Apple's suit of Samsung: it's not a patent suit it's a trade dress suit. Basically they're claiming that Samsung is imitating the iPhone too closely. I've legal analysts who say, while they're not sure Apple will win, that it's not a frivolous suit. Apple has a case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    It's entirely possible Google may have much bigger plans in mind, such as going after the incredibly harmful patent system in its entirety.
    Highly unlikely
    Why do you say that? Google's entire philosophy is "openness", and patents are pretty much the opposite of it. Given their size and the vision of its founders, it's something I could see Google pursuing.

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter
    This is why I guess they didn't care when the programers of theirs just starting stealing other companies code without any real tracking of the financial consequences.
    Do you have any information whatsoever that indicates Google was actively stealing actual code, as opposed to coming up with similar implementations for certain aspects of their mobile OS as others?

    There's a pretty big difference between the two.

  64. #264

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    ^its in the quote I gave above, post 249:

    That property, by the way, is code found in Java that Oracle alleges Google lifted to build portions of Android. Not all the infringements are delineated in the complaint, it seems, but one example of code Oracle says is stolen is found in Android’s in-app purchasing platform, which Oracle says is basically a stolen version of the same thing in Java. Oracle acquired Sun Microsystems, and with it, Java and its patents, in April 2009.
    http://www.androidapps.com/tech/arti...nue-in-lawsuit

    Here is another analysis:

    Florian Mueller took a close look at some of the public evidence in the case, and he claims to have found 43 Android files that were directly copied from Java. He notes that some of the files were changed slightly, but the differences were "minuscule" -- basically, it looks like the coders took the files, added a few comments or moved a few lines around without changing the logic of the code, then put it into the Android source code.

    Mueller concludes that if the case moves on, the discovery process could be "very fruitful for Oracle, and may become dreadful for Google."
    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/buste...#ixzz1Rq7PagwG

    Heck, some people even think the Android logo was stolen from Atari:

    http://www.neowin.net/news/did-googl...tari-lynx-game

    There have been a few commentaries on the web about how Google doesn't seem to have spent a lot of time giving close oversight to the software that was written / that the standards were very lax (or, "open"). This allowed them to produce Android very fast, but of course, it now appears that maybe they weren't really writing parts of it. We can see that in all the cross-royalties the manufacturers have to contend with, and now the legal lawsuits as well.

    Its one thing to say the patent system needs revision, but I don't think there can ever be a system where anyone can take what they want from anyone else for no price, too much time and effort goes into the original idea genesis and code writing to allow that.
    Last edited by moahunter; 11-07-2011 at 05:53 PM.

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    I like the part "Oracle says is basically a stolen version of the same thing in Java". So what you are saying is it's not the same lol.

    Judge Considers Stay in Oracle vs. Google Patent Suit
    News by Bryan Chaffin | 4:05 PM, Jul. 11th, 2011
    Judge William Alsup is considering a partial, if not complete, stay in Oracle’s patent lawsuit against Google while the U.S. Patent & Trademark (USPTO) reviews all seven of Oracle’s patents. Oracle’s lawsuit alleges that Google’s Android platform infringes on seven Java-related patents owned by the database giant, patents acquired when Oracle bought Sun Microsystems and its Java platform in 2009.

    Oracle has been seeking licensing royalties for every Android device sold, something that would turn Android from a “free” open source OS to a “not-free” open source OS, which would benefit Apple, Microsoft, RIM, and any other competitor in the smartphone business. Any form of stay in the case would put Oracle’s case in serious jeopardy.
    Of those five, this preliminary step currently points to Oracle losing three of those patents, while the fourth is likely to be weakened. The fifth is standing up to review so far. First Office actions are still pending on the other two patents in the case.
    All of which means that nothing is decided, but momentum in the case is decidedly not in Oracle’s favor, which would be a very good thing for Google and the Android platform.
    http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/artic...e_patent_suit/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I guess if you can't beat them, sue them lol.
    That's an interesting way to frame Google's recent failure to bid properly for the Nortel patent pool and resolve some of the many patent issues/costs that plague Android licensees.
    Why do you think they failed to get those patents? Hmmmmm, any guesses???? Pretty sad for consumers when the open source handset alliance is getting steamrolled by a group of greedy corporations that have to band together to beat Android, beyond pathetic.


    Google’s Rivals Accused of Colluding Against Android
    Jul. 11 2011
    The American Antitrust Institute is asking regulators to investigate Nortel’s patent sale, suggesting the winning bid to Google’s biggest rivals may imply collusion against Android.

    The group calling itself Rockstar Bidco, which include Apple, Microsoft and Research in Motion, bought Nortel’s trove of patents for $4.5 billion, possibly the biggest intellectual property auction of all time. The sale immediately raised concern from antitrust advocates, since the members of the coalition, mainly Google’s rivals, may use the patents to attack Google’s Android operating system.

    Since group teamed up on the bid, rather than compete against one another, the AAI is suggesting improper practices may be at work. Federal agencies, who qualified the bidders before the auction, are now being called in to review the result of the sale.
    http://blogs.forbes.com/mobiledia/20...ainst-android/

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    students at 2 universities in waterloo, Ontario have declare war against Android.

    http://crackberry.com/students-water...gainst-android
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  68. #268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I guess if you can't beat them, sue them lol.
    That's an interesting way to frame Google's recent failure to bid properly for the Nortel patent pool and resolve some of the many patent issues/costs that plague Android licensees.
    Why do you think they failed to get those patents? Hmmmmm, any guesses???? Pretty sad for consumers when the open source handset alliance is getting steamrolled by a group of greedy corporations that have to band together to beat Android, beyond pathetic.
    1. Please spare us the depiction of Google as some Robin Hood who is only interested in some form of greater good. Their primary motivation is to drive online ad sales and Android helps to accomplish this fact. They don't really care how many Android 1.6 clunkers are on the market, as long as they are generating clicks.

    2. Android isn't open. It's simultaneously open and closed. It's open when Google says it's open, and then it isn't whenever Google decides they need to close it. Or something.

    3. All Mountain View had to do was bid accordingly, play the bidding game, and open that big pocketbook to shore up some of it's more glaring patent weaknesses. They clearly have the money, lots and lots of money, but instead of behaving like an interested party, they played math games and didn't seem to take it seriously. To wit:

    Sadly, this behavior seems to follow the recent M.O. of Google. They walk into situations with extreme confidence when they shouldn’t, then they seem surprised when things unravel. Where are those music deals promised over a year ago? How about the television content deals for Google TV? The list goes on. As I wrote over six months ago, Google appears to be living in a dream world — and they’re edging dangerously close to limbo.
    $5B isn't out of the question; few think it was a good idea but Microsoft put up $8.5B for Skype. If Google could invest in offshore wind farms, they could do this. Nortel's patents were far more crucial to Google than Skype to Microsoft, so the result has left a lot of people questioning Google's commitment to Android. If I were a fanboi, I'd be concerned...
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    Its still vastly open unlike the death grip Apple has over iOS.

    The patents bought by "Rockstar Bidco" (they really thought long and hard on that name) for $4.5 B is still collusion, you would be screaming bloody murder if it was Google, RIM and MS teaming up against Apple. How do three major competitors (all with their own OS's) share the 6,000 patents? They banded together to buy the patents to stop Android from continuing to dominate the smartphone industry, RIM and MS are both going nowhere fast and it seems like Apple needs to sue anyone and everyone that makes a smartphone. This transaction was textbook collusion:


    Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage.[citation needed] It is an agreement among firms to divide the market, set prices, or limit production.[1] It can involve "wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties".[2] In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.[3]

    Definition
    In the study of economics and market competition, collusion takes place within an industry when rival companies cooperate for their mutual benefit. Collusion most often takes place within the market structure of oligopoly, where the decision of a few firms to collude can significantly impact the market as a whole. Cartels are a special case of explicit collusion. Collusion which is not overt, on the other hand, is known as tacit collusion.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collusion

  70. #270

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Its still vastly open unlike the death grip Apple has over iOS.

    Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage.[citation needed] It is an agreement among firms to divide the market, set prices, or limit production.[1] It can involve "wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties".[2] In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.[3]
    That's because Apple has an incentive to actually own, control and maintain the quality of iOS. Google doesn't really care about the software as they don't make money on it, all they care about is the advertising revenue. Playing childish games with the bid prices, even though they had the cash, just illustrated this.

    I think it will be extremely difficult to prove collusion, all of the members of the consortium are competitors of each other who will continue to compete openly with each other on prices and production levels. The patents themselves have value to these companies as well, just as they would have to Google. If anything, it could have limited competition more if only one company had owned all the patents, a bit like how Apple does not allow anyone else to produce iOS.

  71. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Its still vastly open unlike the death grip Apple has over iOS.

    Collusion is an agreement between two or more persons, sometimes illegal and therefore secretive, to limit open competition by deceiving, misleading, or defrauding others of their legal rights, or to obtain an objective forbidden by law typically by defrauding or gaining an unfair advantage.[citation needed] It is an agreement among firms to divide the market, set prices, or limit production.[1] It can involve "wage fixing, kickbacks, or misrepresenting the independence of the relationship between the colluding parties".[2] In legal terms, all acts effected by collusion are considered void.[3]
    That's because Apple has an incentive to actually own, control and maintain the quality of iOS. Google doesn't really care about the software as they don't make money on it, all they care about is the advertising revenue. Playing childish games with the bid prices, even though they had the cash, just illustrated this.

    I think it will be extremely difficult to prove collusion, all of the members of the consortium are competitors of each other who will continue to compete openly with each other on prices and production levels. The patents themselves have value to these companies as well, just as they would have to Google. If anything, it could have limited competition more if only one company had owned all the patents, a bit like how Apple does not allow anyone else to produce iOS.
    Of course Google cares about the software. Even if they don't make money on the actual licensing (can you prove that btw), it's still a medium for people to 'click' on Google, ie: give Google more ad revenue.

    The Rockstar Bidco is teetering on some shaky ground when they decided to become a consortium of companies. It's a risky move that must've had their lawyers working some OT in justifying and covering their butts.

  72. #272
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    Some of Apple's patents regarding gestures and multitouch are not valid as prior use can be shown. Does anybody remember the movie Minority Report that is a case where multi touch is being used albeit in a fictional method a full 5 years 2002 before Apple's patent application in 2007.

    If I was Google I'd welcome that lawsuit.

  74. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBear View Post
    The Rockstar Bidco is teetering on some shaky ground when they decided to become a consortium of companies. It's a risky move that must've had their lawyers working some OT in justifying and covering their butts.
    Companies form consortiums / JV's all the time, its not a big deal.

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    HTC essentially issued a press release to Apple, to paraphrase Bart Simpson... "Jobs, eat my shorts"
    ----
    Taiwan's HTC rejects fresh Apple patent claim
    AFP TAIPEI — Taiwan's leading smartphone maker HTC on Tuesday dismissed fresh patent infringement claims by US giant Apple as the legal battle between the rivals escalated.
    ...
    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...nosB6IRmdxoQtg

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    Care to list a few? Thanks in advance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Care to list a few? Thanks in advance.
    Here's one of the top of my head:
    Blu-ray Disk Association

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    From the the site you linked..

    Update: To clarify, the deal was only approved by the bankruptcy courts, and the US DOJ is examining the sale for its possible anti-competitive effects.

    So its not a done deal.

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    Apple sue Google and HTC and Samsung because android platform software is catching up on Apple very fast and Apple have been threatened by Android to become # 1 in 2 or 3 yrs from now.
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    Yeah, that's exactly why they sued....

    What's the code for the eye-rolling smiley?

  81. #281

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    Interesting article on Microsofts software, this quote caught my eye though, it supports what a few people have written on this thread about the integrated model being the most profitible one today:

    Yet even if it can drive its market share of handset sales higher, Microsoft may still not profit as handsomely as Nokia, RIM and Apple, all of which create both the software and the hardware in their products – and for which the physical product is the most profitable part. While Google makes money from its Android platform by driving searches via its own platform and selling mobile ads, Microsoft is both charging handset makers a fee to license Windows Phone 7 and seeking search and ad revenues. The profits from those activities, though, may not be as impressive as those seen by Apple, in particular, which is estimated to have taken 39% of the mobile phone industry's total profits in the first half of 2010 by selling only 17m iPhones.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...=ILCNETTXT3487

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    Microsoft makes $5 per HTC Android handset sold and will most likely outpace their income from WM7 phones, especially since their sales are dismal at best.

    If Microsoft managed to get all Android phone and tablet makers to cough up $5 per device, Microsoft could make more than $913 million a year, using Google’s figure of 500,000 new devices per day.

    At Microsoft, any business that can bring in $1 billion annually is significant. In fiscal 2010, the Entertainment and Devices division, which includes the Xbox business and mobile software, made $8.1 billion in sales and $679 million in operating profit.

    Google has said its mobile business, including search, advertising and services, is a $1 billion enterprise. The company gives away Android, but it sells deals to phone and tablet makers who want exclusive rights to offer the latest software for a limited period.

    Android is the world’s fastest-growing mobile operating system. Google said 100 million people are using Android devices and, by year’s end, it’s projected to have 40 percent of the worldwide smartphone market, according to Framingham, Mass. research firm IDC.

    Nokia Corp.’s Symbian software, which topped the market for a long spell, is expected to shrink to 21 percent; Apple will maintain a share of 16 percent, and Research in Motion Ltd.’s BlackBerry will slip to 15 percent.
    http://www.vancouversun.com/business...399/story.html

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    Alas the file system definition on SD Cards (Micro SD too), USB sticks is Microsoft technology so if you as a vendor sell a product using this technology than you owe Microsoft royalties. That to me is a fair patent.

    The Apple multi touch patent to me seems too far reaching, it is similar if Microsoft or Wii patented a baseball swinging movement to hit a virtual baseball. Now some gestures may be patentable when they are very specific and precise but some are obvious in their meaning.

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    A federal judge on Tuesday denied Apple’s request for an expedited trial in the company’s patent case against Samsung.


    http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/13/judge-...-with-samsung/
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    Crazy amount of growth.


    Google CEO Larry Page Says There Are 550,000 Android Device Activation A Day
    By Kim-Mai Cutler, July 14th, 2011

    Google chief executive Larry Page said the Android OS is seeing 550,000 device activations a day. That’s up from 500,000 devices activations per day a little over two weeks ago, according to Android chief Andy Rubin.

    Google said Android had seen 100 million cumulative device activations in May of this year at its developer conference in San Francisco. With the figures the company released today, the platform likely has seen roughly 130 million device activations.

    The search giant beat analysts estimates today, reporting $9.03 billion in second quarter revenue up 32 percent from $6.82 billion in the same quarter a year earlier. Net income was $2.51 billion, up 36 percent from $1.84 billion in the same quarter a year earlier.
    http://www.insidemobileapps.com/2011...d-activations/

  86. #286

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    HTC may soon be banned in the US, and all Android phones (which have same patent issues) could also be impacted

    The ITC administrative law judge's initial determination was that HTC infringed on two of the 10 patents Apple had filed a complaint over in March 2010, according to an HTC statement. The ITC still needs to make a final ruling on the complaint. A loss carries the threat that HTC's products would be banned from coming into the U.S., and Apple only needs to get a favorable decision on one of the patents.

    ...

    An Apple representative referred back to the company's initial statement when it filed the complaint last year. "We think competition is healthy, but competitors should create their own original technology, not steal ours," Apple CEO Steve Jobs said in the release.

    If an appeal isn't successful, HTC will have to come to a settlement with Apple. The loss would be a defeat for all Android supporters and could embolden Apple to take additional legal action.

    Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-200...#ixzz1SEk7iRQS

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    Was only one judge whereas the final decision is made by six, nonetheless, not a good outcome for HTC. The two patents seem pretty vague to me, "system and method for performing an action on a structure in a computer" and a "real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data.". What is pathetic about this is the patents are from 1994 and 1996.

    Patents in Apple-HTC case filed in 1994 and 1996, long before smartphones existed
    July 15, 2011

    Lost in the clamor over Apple Inc.'s preliminary patent victory over rival phone-maker HTC Corp. are that the two patents in question are so old*they predate smartphones.

    A judge at the U.S. International Trade Commission has ruled that HTC infringed two of Apple's patents, HTC acknowledged today, causing speculation that other Android phone makers may also be in for trouble if they're also using Apple-owned technology.* (The ITC still has to make a final ruling on the HTC case, and the company says it will appeal.).

    But what kind of technology is at issue here? When we think of smartphones, we think of touch screens, software apps, wireless radios, Bluetooth and other recent inventions.* But the patents at issue here go back way further than that.*

    The first one, 6,343,263, was filed in August 1994 -- 17 years ago -- and covers "Real-time signal processing system for serially transmitted data."* Meaning, roughly, it handles data ("voice, facsimile, video and the like") being sent to it from other devices over a network.* There is no mention in the patent of wireless networks, cellular phones or really anything you'd directly associate with a smartphone except the sending and receiving of data.*

    You can imagine that many -- or all -- smartphones would need to be able to receive and process real-time data from outside sources, so whether Apple's infringement claim on it will stop at HTC, or Android, or anywhere, seems to be an open question.

    The second patent, 5,946,647, was filed in February 1996, and treats an even more generic subject: System and method for performing an action on a structure in computer-generated data.*What's that, you ask?*Well, if you open an email on your HTC touch-screen phone, you are in fact using your finger to interact with a piece of data. By touching it, you are commanding the phone to perform an action (like "open") on the email. This patent has to do with the system that, for instance, tells the phone to open the email.
    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tech...artphones.html

    HTC also noted that the ITC has ruled that Apple infringed patents assigned to S3Graphics, a company HTC is in the process of acquiring, as part of a separate investigation.

    Seems Apple has turned to fighting in court rather than fighting for customers.
    Last edited by Hilman; 15-07-2011 at 11:01 PM.

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    The healthy competition is really great for telecom industry so it'd be sad to see Apple knock Android down. In the end, the consumer would be the loser.

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    The probability off any sort of ban is so remote, this is saber rattling, in the end one company will pay another certain royalties for using various things, or they will trade off you can use this patent of mine in exchange for me using this patent of yours.

  90. #290

    Default Survey: Consumers Favouring Iphones, IOS over Android

    Not surprising IMO, if it wasn't for the higher price, most people would choose Apple over Android, people want something simple that works well, not lots of bells and whistles, which are really only for geeks. The satisfaction rates for Android are lower (only 50%), and RIM is just horrible:

    ChangeWave said it surveyed 4,163 U.S. consumers and found that consumers, when asked which mobile OS they would prefer in the next smartphone they planned to purchase, favored Apple's iOS by a significant amount.

    About 48 percent of those surveyed said they actually plan to buy an Apple iPhone. The firm also showed that those that purchased an iOS device were the happiest with their purchase.

    ...

    But Apple remained on top of a related poll by ChangeWave that found that 70 percent of people who actually bought iOS phones said that they were "very satisfied" with their purchase, versus 50 percent for Android, 27 percent for Windows Phone, and 26 percent for RIM.
    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2388653,00.asp

    Bad news for RIM, they need QNX out ASAP.
    Last edited by moahunter; 18-07-2011 at 03:31 PM.

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    Keep in mind that in Canada at least, RIM still has a 42% market share: http://www2.macleans.ca/2011/07/06/c...r/#more-203964

    RIM’s share of the U.S. smartphone market has been whittled to 25.7 per cent from 30 per cent at the beginning of the year and more than 40 per cent back in 2007. Meanwhile, Apple now owns 26 per cent of the market, while devices running Android have soared to 36.4 per cent, according to data from research firm ComScore. (In Canada, by contrast, RIM leads with 42 per cent of the market, followed by Apple at 31 per cent and Android at 12 per cent.)
    However obviously it's the US market that is most meaningful. I too hope RIM gets their poop together. After about 5 months with my Torch, I'm fairly fed up with it. Apps suck. It's slow and jerky when browsing the net or even flipping through the OS. The lock/unlock feature is garbage, far too easy to unlock in your pocket. Battery life is a joke. It occasionally soft locks for 5-10 seconds at a time when texting or BBMing and doesn't record the keystrokes made in that time. Over the past week I got a phantom BBM message from a friend who didn't send it, and then a couple days later messages he DID send didn't get delivered.

    I won't go back to an iPhone though, I will not go without a keyboard. And unfortunately the best Android phones aren't available here until long after they're released elsewhere.

  92. #292

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    ^I have a love hate thing with BBM. Had a huge row with my gf over it, when "reading" messages but not replying. We decided to ditch and just use text for each other.

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    ^^ Phones in Canada are now getting released fairly quickly and aren't much later than the US. Case in point, the best phone on the market right now (by far) will be the Samsung Galaxy S II and was released in Europe and Asia in late May/early June and arrives at Bell and Virgin on July 21st (is available in the US mid-July) and had pre-orders of 3 million units.

    The nearest competitor, the HTC Sensation was released May 19th in the UK, June 12th in the US and July 5th in Canada.

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    Google executive chairman's comments about lawsuits vs innovation
    http://www.slashgear.com/google-chai...28SlashGear%29

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    ^ Totally agree, some of these patent infringement cases are getting a little out of hand, especially the last two from Apple. These patents are ultra vague and are from the mid 1990's, time for the ITC to change the way the system works.

    No matter what side you are on, all these lawsuits are bad for the growth of the industry and will curb innovation which in the end is a very bad thing for consumers.

  96. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    ^ These patents are ultra vague and are from the mid 1990's, time for the ITC to change the way the system works.
    I think if the details are looked at, the various schmatic diagrams and similar, its not as vague as the synopsis suggests.

    Its a balance. Sure, we want inovation. But you shouldn't be able to steal property or code either. Regardless of whether it was theft, google has done a very bad job of mananging its IP, and this is now resulting in cell phone makers having second thoughts about Android, versus paying a small user fee for another software.

    Like it or not, Android was written very quickly to try to support devices that try to emulate the Iphone. It looks like it may have been written too quickly.
    Last edited by moahunter; 19-07-2011 at 02:03 PM.

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    Whilst I agree, people shouldn't steal other peoples ideas, most of these lawsuits have had nothing to do with stealing technology and everything to do with grandstanding and trying to mark their territory like a dog in heat.

    I disagree that Google is trying to emulate the iPhone, they are building phones that work and are superior to the iP4 in many ways. These devices are inherently going to have simliar attributes but an Android phone looks and acts much different than an iPhone. Apple just stole/copied Androids notification system in its upcoming iOS 5 with its "Notification Shade", is this okay or should Google sue them as well? What about providing info and apps within the lock screen like Android users have been doing for quite some time? Seems it is okay if Apple does it but not the other way around.

    I am surprised Apple hasn't tried to patented the black rectangle lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    I disagree that Google is trying to emulate the iPhone, they are building phones that work and are superior to the iP4 in many ways.
    Everyone was laughing at Apple when they released the touch screen iPhone, something I am sure they were working on for years. Everything since then is really just a copy of the concept. Not to say that's all bad, its good to have competition, but IMO its suspicious how quick Android came about.

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    You do know that iPhones weren't the first touchscreen phone right?

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    They were the first to do it with a complete product that had mass appeal for a phone. They clearly took their time to make the product as perfect as possible before releasing it, leveraging off the sucess of the IPOD. Its not a coincidence that soon after the iPhone was incredibly sucessful, along came HTC and others with knock offs.

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