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Thread: Bomb Shelter -> museum, or what else?

  1. #1
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    Default Bomb Shelter -> museum, or what else?

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...635/story.html
    EDMONTON — An Edmonton photographer wants to turn the city’s abandoned west-end bomb shelter into a museum of Cold War civil defence efforts.
    A concrete shed with Civil Defence Edmonton painted on the side, protects the entrance to a bunker about two metres underground behind a chain-link fence at 9408 142nd St. on the north edge of the McKenzie Ravine.
    The structure, built in 1953, was intended to protect a “control committee” of senior civic politicians and bureaucrats who would lead reconstruction work in the event of nuclear holocaust. As war fears faded, it fell into disuse.
    The secret facility was one of two built in Edmonton during the era of the Korean War, when municipalities joined the provincial and federal governments to prepare for the aftermath of a feared Soviet nuclear attack.
    The former Diefenbunker outside Ottawa has been turned into the only interpretive centre of this type in Canada.
    A Cold War museum sounds neat.
    Any other ideas?

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  2. #2

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    Cold War Museum is a great idea

    Very effectively done with the Diefenbunker in Ottawa and a great tourism attraction.

    Be happy to help them get a start if we can

    Tom

  3. #3

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    loved the diefenbunker in ottawa. Is this one any where near the same size?

  4. #4

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    No mcuh much smaller

    But it would give a great insight to all those that have little understanding of the era, what was beleived to be faced and how it was dealt with.

    A municipal view of what was a truly World Wide issue.

    tom

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    Does anyone know where the second one is ?
    The one pictured would have to be a walk , bike or bus to venue.
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    This is such a fantastic idea!

  7. #7

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    It isn't gonna be a major attraction, but I think it's a fine idea none the less. Any preservation of history, is a worthy venture.

  8. #8

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    I'd love to go inside it / check it out. I think museum might be best, essentially just preserve it (maybe spruce it up a bit to allow people to visit). Its an important part of history I think.

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    I wonder how big it is inside. Actual dimensions and pictures would be nice.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dupa View Post
    It isn't gonna be a major attraction, but I think it's a fine idea none the less. Any preservation of history, is a worthy venture.
    I agree it is unlikely to be a major attraction.

    But it is another piece of the mosaic that makes Edmonton...Edmonton.

    If you are not old enough to remember the height of the Cold War (the real duck and cover/the red hordes about to come across the Arctic) it will be a chance to put that time in our history into a relevant and accessible perspective.

    It is also another piece added to the overall attraction of Edmonton as a destination.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ander View Post
    I wonder how big it is inside. Actual dimensions and pictures would be nice.
    Taken from http://www.canada.com/edmontonjourna...5-3709acc8f1ed

    Steep stairs led down from the entrance to a one-floor concrete box, roughly 10 metres by 13 metres, that featured a mechanical room, tanks for fuel and water, a communications centre, areas for eating and sleeping, and even separate male and female bathrooms, he says.

    "It looks like being in a submarine. This is quite a depressing hole in the ground," says Tingley, who has an article about his experience in the latest issue of Legacy magazine. "It's probably a bit bigger than it seems, because it's such a claustrophobic environment."
    I'd be interested in seeing some pictures as well.

  12. #12

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    Use it for something! As long as its preserved. Its a neat piece of history.
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  13. #13

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    10 x 13 meters with one exit and entrance...

    the chances of this ever becoming anything is next to nothing unless a large center is built above ground and a second safety exit is attached to the org structure.

    I hate to be a Debbie downer.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    ^There is a "hidden" emergency exit (at least that's what I think it is) a little ways away in the ravine, but you'd obviously need to do some major work to make it more accessible, etc. (Discovered that with a friend while trying to find a way inside a few years ago.) Turning this into a museum would cost millions, and maybe we'd prefer to call it an "interpretive center" instead. Not saying it's a bad idea, though!

  15. #15

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    It depends on the story you are trying to tell...

    1) All the shelters had a secondary exit against intrusion/invasion so its not that big a deal.

    2) If (and I say if) the idea is to present the relevance of the time and the mind set the actual shelter would be the centre piece of a greater presentation of the time.

    Many ways that could be accomplished most not expensive and could be done in partnership with other organizations.

    3) Key would be restoring the actual shelter and presenting it at a moment in time during its use (Cuban Missile crisis comes to mind). That way it could be shown the intensity of the situation and the steps that society was willing to take to continue an orderly existence...compared to today.

    Thoughts

    Tom

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    From the article
    "The other structure, still part of a commercial building near 103rd Avenue and 146th Street,"
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  17. #17

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    Speaking of which - do any decent pictures, details, specs etc. still exist of the Penhold / Red Deer Diefenbunker that Anne McLellan had demolished about ten years ago?

    What a loss and a huge added cost to demolish it. The contractor had reported how tough it was to get rid of the massive concrete walls yet for a couple hundred dollars they could have dumped rock or something to seal the doors until an appropriate use was found for it.

    Results from some quick Google searches on Diefenbunkers...

    scroll down link for picture of Penhold bunker...
    http://www.paulpettypiece.com/penhold_base.htm

    http://www.diefenbunker.ca/en_index.shtml

    http://wn.com/Diefenbunker

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-90631333.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergen...t_Headquarters


    .
    Last edited by KC; 27-04-2011 at 05:54 PM.

  18. #18
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    Was driving by this morning and saw that the gate was opened. Stop and talked to some guys that are renovating the bunker. My son and I got a guided tour. Very cool, they are hoping to turn it into a museum.
    Sydney Wood

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by swood View Post
    Was driving by this morning and saw that the gate was opened. Stop and talked to some guys that are renovating the bunker. My son and I got a guided tour. Very cool, they are hoping to turn it into a museum.
    Any pics? I've always wanted to check out this relic of the past. Plus the one in the commercial building near SPR.

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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  21. #21

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    Wow, what a cool find.

    I will be up for visiting this when it opens to the public.

    It was such a shame the government demolished the shelter in Penhold. Anyone with any amount of common sense would have realized it would have made an ideal Data center...

  22. #22

    Default I'm the Guy

    I have to say it's a pleasure to read your supportive comments! If you have any questions about the facility please feel free to email me at [email protected]
    I do not want false information about this facility to out there so I have no problem disclose all information of this facility! I have more information of this facility than anyone in Edmonton!
    This facility is exactly 42' X 50' with a pretty impressive infrastructure inside. They built this facility using that latest and most advanced building materials and technology of its time!
    This building has two entrances, it never has been flooded, there are no bugs or rodents of any kind inside, there is no mold and next to no asbestos! The only asbestos that I found was in the mechanical room. It would take a 2 man team spraying and removing less then a hr! This facility is very safe and after 68 years there is not even a hairline crack to be found anywhere!

    You guys are the best!

    Cheers

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    I have to say it's a pleasure to read your supportive comments! If you have any questions about the facility please feel free to email me at [email protected]
    I do not want false information about this facility to out there so I have no problem disclose all information of this facility! I have more information of this facility than anyone in Edmonton!
    This facility is exactly 42' X 50' with a pretty impressive infrastructure inside. They built this facility using that latest and most advanced building materials and technology of its time!
    This building has two entrances, it never has been flooded, there are no bugs or rodents of any kind inside, there is no mold and next to no asbestos! The only asbestos that I found was in the mechanical room. It would take a 2 man team spraying and removing less then a hr! This facility is very safe and after 68 years there is not even a hairline crack to be found anywhere!

    You guys are the best!

    Cheers
    If you would like to meet up and discuss options, opportunities and ideas please contact me.

    Tom Hinderks
    office 780-451-1175
    e-mail [email protected]

  24. #24

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    Hi and thank you for stopping by for a tour, I hope you enjoyed it!

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    Oh this is cool. How do you get on a tour?

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Oh this is cool. How do you get on a tour?
    We were only giving tours on Saturday April 30th. I have no idea when it will be reopened. We opened it to do a photo documentary of it and to expose it to the public. After doing a ton of research on it we now realize this place needs to be refurbished to it's original state and shared with everyone!
    So at this point there are no tours until the city does it's part and new doors are installed rather then steel plats that are welded and bolted.

  27. #27

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    Here are a few shots. These photos are not edited
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabol...7626644706276/

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    Excellent photos - thanks for sharing!

    There doesn't appear to be much groundwater seepage.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by soycd View Post
    Excellent photos - thanks for sharing!

    There doesn't appear to be much groundwater seepage.

    There is absolutely no water seepage or any flooding of any kind. The only moisture was from the bleach water solution i sprayed.

  30. #30
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    Hey Meta How about some exposure info ?
    Was the power for the lights that we see on, run from the genset or hard wire from the city grid
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    Hey Meta How about some exposure info ?
    Was the power for the lights that we see on, run from the genset or hard wire from the city grid

    We wired the panel into our generator and used the existing lighting in the shelter.

  32. #32

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    this is just too cool. As someone in his early 40s, I wasn't born when the Korean War was on or even the Cuban missile crisis, but talking to my parent and relatives its' a part of our history to some degree.
    there are generations since that have grown up giving no thought to national security. This is an excellent opportunity to educate.
    I believe there would be plenty of volunteers and volunteer groups (Air and Army cadets?) that would pitch in either monetarily or labor-wise to assist in some form of redev.
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueline View Post
    Hey Meta How about some exposure info ?
    Was the power for the lights that we see on, run from the genset or hard wire from the city grid
    Quote Originally Posted by quiksilver View Post
    this is just too cool. As someone in his early 40s, I wasn't born when the Korean War was on or even the Cuban missile crisis, but talking to my parent and relatives its' a part of our history to some degree.
    there are generations since that have grown up giving no thought to national security. This is an excellent opportunity to educate.
    I believe there would be plenty of volunteers and volunteer groups (Air and Army cadets?) that would pitch in either monetarily or labor-wise to assist in some form of redev.

    I agree100%

  34. #34

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    I was at Global again today and then I viewed the blue prints for the shelter! Wow what a day! After studying the blueprints today there is no question this place needs to be opened to the public to enjoy! This facility has more historical worth than anything else in the City!

  35. #35
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    What will be the best way for you to secure funding for this? 3 levels of government? Corporations?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What will be the best way for you to secure funding for this? 3 levels of government? Corporations?
    First I have to have a business plan to face THE City with! If i have financing before hand i would love to purchase it or lease it from the city but it might be safer to just manage it and let the city own it. I would still need funding for renovations. I estimate that it will cost $60.000.00 to renovate it!

  37. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What will be the best way for you to secure funding for this? 3 levels of government? Corporations?
    Starting out, from my past experience

    1) You need a fairly good sized group of like minded people
    2) Form a registered non profit charitable society with all the registrations
    3) Become a member of the Alberta Museums Association
    4) Create a long term business plan including all aspects from operations through marketing, including the rehabilitation of the site and restoration of the facility....the educational and heritage aspects are critical
    5) Negotiate for the possession of the site
    6) Get on line for Casinos

    Now you start the real work...
    7) Private donors of both Cash, Artifacts and Contra (services/products)
    This is very difficult but truly the first line. Understand the CRA rules clearly

    Self operated fund raising events.
    Tons of work...then that business plan thing again

    9) Corporations as above
    Time and dollar intensive but if tenacious can be helpful

    10) Alberta Museums Association grants
    Get good at grant writing...time intensive

    11) CIP/CFEP Provincial grants as well as Community Spirit matching funds
    Time consuming and heavily subscribed. A lot of patience is required and extremely well prepared grant applications...even then get used to playing politics.

    12) Federal Funding is the most frustrating, time consuming and least rewarding when it comes to heritage/history projects but you must do it and bring a whole new level of patience to the table. 20years and the Aviation Museum has only had very, very limited success and only on very selected available grants.

    There are literally thousands of grant programs out there, but once you cut out Arts/Culture/Non Canadian/Special interest there is not much for Canadian History/Heritage and it narrows more as you get more local

    Once operating there are very limited Municipal operating and maintenance grants available and working with City Councilors can get some help.

    The key is having a bullet proof plan from day one and following it solidly.

    The 5 Ps
    Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance

    Do not get me wrong...I am not trying to discourage I would really like this to succeed and happen in a great way!

    But I am trying to give you a realistic view of 15 years as a volunteer and coming on 6 as Executive Director of a Museum.

    You must have a PASSION to do this and you have to stick with it and push hard or it will not happen.

    Thats a quick overview and sometimes you get lucky and it happens easier, but don't count on it.

    Metabolic
    I will be happy to get together and help as I can and look forward to meeting you as we e-mailed.

    Do not get discouraged...it can happen.

    IMO

    Tom
    Last edited by Thomas Hinderks; 04-05-2011 at 09:55 PM. Reason: spelling

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    What will be the best way for you to secure funding for this? 3 levels of government? Corporations?
    Starting out, from my past experience

    1) You need a fairly good sized group of like minded people
    2) Form a registered non profit charitable society with all the registrations
    3) Become a member of the Alberta Museums Association
    4) Create a long term business plan including all aspects from operations through marketing, including the rehabilitation of the site and restoration of the facility....the educational and heritage aspects are critical
    5) Negotiate for the possession of the site
    6) Get on line for Casinos

    Now you start the real work...
    7) Private donors of both Cash, Artifacts and Contra (services/products)
    This is very difficult but truly the first line. Understand the CRA rules clearly

    Self operated fund raising events.
    Tons of work...then that business plan thing again

    9) Corporations as above
    Time and dollar intensive but if tenacious can be helpful

    10) Alberta Museums Association grants
    Get good at grant writing...time intensive

    11) CIP/CFEP Provincial grants as well as Community Spirit matching funds
    Time consuming and heavily subscribed. A lot of patience is required and extremely well prepared grant applications...even then get used to playing politics.

    12) Federal Funding is the most frustrating, time consuming and least rewarding when it comes to heritage/history projects but you must do it and bring a whole new level of patience to the table. 20years and the Aviation Museum has only had very, very limited success and only on very selected available grants.

    There are literally thousands of grant programs out there, but once you cut out Arts/Culture/Non Canadian/Special interest there is not much for Canadian History/Heritage and it narrows more as you get more local

    Once operating there are very limited Municipal operating and maintenance grants available and working with City Councilors can get some help.

    The key is having a bullet proof plan from day one and following it solidly.

    The 5 Ps
    Prior Planning Prevents Poor Performance

    Do not get me wrong...I am not trying to discourage I would really like this to succeed and happen in a great way!

    But I am trying to give you a realistic view of 15 years as a volunteer and coming on 6 as Executive Director of a Museum.

    You must have a PASSION to do this and you have to stick with it and push hard or it will not happen.

    Thats a quick overview and sometimes you get lucky and it happens easier, but don't count on it.

    Metabolic
    I will be happy to get together and help as I can and look forward to meeting you as we e-mailed.

    Do not get discouraged...it can happen.

    IMO

    Tom
    Tom! Thank you! I hear what you are saying and I know I can not do this alone so yes I'm more then willing to meet! I would love to hear what you have to say in person! After all the research I have done and after looking at the blue prints today there is no turning back!

  39. #39

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    Good...

    A part of history that needs its story told.

    I'm older than most on this forum (not all) and remember the period and as a Canadian History fiend know how much the "mind set" of the Cold War affects us through today.

    It is another exciting part of Edmonton's story (kinda scary), it can be done well and add to that mosaic I keep talking about.

    Help as much as I can, when I can.

    Tom

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Good...

    A part of history that needs its story told.

    I'm older than most on this forum (not all) and remember the period and as a Canadian History fiend know how much the "mind set" of the Cold War affects us through today.

    It is another exciting part of Edmonton's story (kinda scary), it can be done well and add to that mosaic I keep talking about.

    Help as much as I can, when I can.

    Tom
    Thank you once again! I agree this is part of history that can not be compared to anything in the city or the country! This was the most top secret thing in Edmonton's history!

  41. #41

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    So does anyone have input on the 14yr business plan for Civil Defence / Cold War Museum?

  42. #42

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    Does anyone have ideas or suggestions on raising finances for the museum?

  43. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    Does anyone have ideas or suggestions on raising finances for the museum?
    See post 38

    And we can try to get together next week

    Tom

  44. #44

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    Tom you can email me at [email protected] and we can continue our correspondence

    Cheers

    Fred

  45. #45

  46. #46

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    http://archives.cbc.ca/war_conflict/...pics/274-1469/

    Calgary evacuates: Operation Lifesaver
    Broadcast Date: Oct. 9, 1955

    "The clock is ticking down to a planned disaster. On a sleepy Wednesday morning, Calgary's mayor initiates the alarm to empty one-quarter of the city's suburbs. Schoolchildren run home and families are given two hours to relocate to surrounding towns. Escape routes are tested and by early afternoon the northeastern section of the city is eerily deserted. This CBC Television report chronicles the mass evacuation effort."



    The next is from 1961. ' The kids will be let of of school and they'll have lots of fun running around the neighbourhood shouting: "Fall out, fall out, the radiation is out" '

    'Nuclear warfare can be fun'
    Broadcast Date: Nov. 9, 1961

    "Stuff cotton wadding into your ears, hide under the kitchen chair, throw yourself under a pile of leaves — that's CBC humorist Max Ferguson's advice in the event of nuclear war. Ferguson pokes fun at the Tocsin B exercise, the Emergency Measures Organization evacuation test. Don't worry, he advises in this radio broadcast, nuclear warfare can be fun."
    Last edited by KC; 11-05-2011 at 05:15 PM.

  47. #47

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    Yes this is a excellent sample of our cold war history and just proves that a Interpretive center is much needed! It is a part of history that can never be forgotten. It also brings to point that we are in a greater danger than ever before in history but we have NO proactive or even a reactive system in place! For example all air raid sirens were removed in 1996. So if something should happen you will never know. As they say ignorance is not bliss.

    Here this is a example of our ignorance.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/metabol...7626644706276/

  48. #48

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    I have the support of the community and now i'm in the process of leasing the property! One step at a time I guess

  49. #49

  50. #50

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    Sorry I haven't been as available as usual, been a very ugly start to the year.

    I will be in the museum tomorrow morning from approx 8:30am to 12:00noon if you wan to try and catch up.

    TH

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by anyuta34o View Post
    fatigue12 weight loss, edmonton escort nausea, muscle edmonton asian escort weakness, pain in edmonton escorts the lower back or side of the chest and sensory loss. Many people mistake the symptoms of this disease for other edmonton asian escorts common everyday
    lol!
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  52. #52
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    Bomb shelter museum plans in limbo

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...814/story.html
    Armbruster said he’s still waiting for a response to his plan from the city, which constructed the shelter to protect municipal leaders in case of a nuclear attack.“I’m in complete limbo,” he said. “I don’t know where I stand, I don’t know where they stand.

    “We know there’s going to be challenges ahead. We’re ready to face them. We just need the OK to go ahead.”

    His plan estimates the cost of fixing up the structure at $60,000 to $90,000, with help from volunteer tradespeople. Armbruster said it would take about one year to complete.

    Officials from the city could not be reached for comment.

    But the plan received backing this week from Edmonton MP Laurie Hawn, who wrote to Heritage Minister James Moore that it has “excellent potential” as a candidate for funding from his department.

    “I believe that (the plan) has merit as it highlights Canada’s and Alberta cultural military history through education,” wrote Hawn, who was travelling and couldn’t be reached for further comment.
    C'mon city hall, step up.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  53. #53

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    SDM

    I believe this is a good project and the Aviation Museum and myself have offered to help as we can. I also believe that Mr. Armbruster is likely to get the private "in kind" support he is going to need to make it come together.

    But you have to understand that unlike "The Arts" IMO Alberta and Canadian Heritage is not much of a priority at any government level. It will happen when it happens.

    Also putting a plan through any level of government is a long time consuming process.

    Tom

  54. #54
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    I know, Tom. I just don't want this project to die due to this city's historical tendencies to miss the boat.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I know, Tom. I just don't want this project to die due to this city's historical tendencies to miss the boat.
    Appreciate that.

    But without public pressure, as has happened in the "Arts", nothing is going to happen fast, "in general", with Local/Provincial Heritage IMO.

    Tom

  56. #56

    Default Thank You For Your Support!!

    Just to Update everyone....
    We have been given the go ahead from the city to start the leasing process!
    We are now waiting for our proposal to be approved for securing the facility and doing a complete site cleanup to ensure healthy air quality and a safe environment for the inspectors. Once the inspections are complete this will take us to the next phase.

    Fred Armbruster
    Edmonton Civil Defence Museum
    http://edmontoncivildefencemuseum.com/

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    Good to hear! Thanks for the update

  58. #58

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    Fantastic Fred

    Keep up the effort it does pay off in the end

    Tom

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    Good to hear

    As Tom said, Keep it up.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  60. #60

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    Parks Edmonton*

    Its been brought to my attention that the city is willing to lease the shelter to us but parks Edmonton "doesn't know what to do". I personally don't understand what the problem is!
    **The shelter originally was a commercial site, operated by the civil defence, now called emergency preparedness. *The shelter later was abandoned by the city and passed on to the Edmonton parks department because no one else would take ownership of the shelter. *The Edmonton parks department only cut the grass around the compound and left everything to grow wild with in the compound. The compound has not received any care until the Metabolic *photography company took action to do a photo documentary. Metabolic Photography was responsible for clearing the ingrown trees and weeds. Since April of 2011 i Fred Armbruster have been taking care of the site on a volunteer basis. My question to the parks department is:*
    What's there to think about, this is a anchor point in our country, province and municipal history. *We are not changing anything we are just going to restore the entire site to it's original state when is was fully operational.*
    Why should they care? It was past onto them because no other department would take care of the site.*
    Finally someone wants to take full responsibility for the site for all the write reasons. *What is there to question? What is there to think about? This is a very historic site!
    The parks department has to approve and provide full support for the development of the Edmonton Civil Defence Museum or be faced in demolishing the facility in which they would encure the cost of three to six million dollars.*
    It's nothing to question as it's clearly logic that the parks department has too approve and support the Edmonton Civil Defence Museum. If the parks department doesn't approve the development of the site, people from across Canada and the USA will be pointing there fingers at Edmonton Parks *Department. **

  61. #61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    Parks Edmonton*

    Its been brought to my attention that the city is willing to lease the shelter to us but parks Edmonton "doesn't know what to do". I personally don't understand what the problem is!
    **The shelter originally was a commercial site, operated by the civil defence, now called emergency preparedness. *The shelter later was abandoned by the city and passed on to the Edmonton parks department because no one else would take ownership of the shelter. *The Edmonton parks department only cut the grass around the compound and left everything to grow wild with in the compound. The compound has not received any care until the Metabolic *photography company took action to do a photo documentary. Metabolic Photography was responsible for clearing the ingrown trees and weeds. Since April of 2011 i Fred Armbruster have been taking care of the site on a volunteer basis. My question to the parks department is:*
    What's there to think about, this is a anchor point in our country, province and municipal history. *We are not changing anything we are just going to restore the entire site to it's original state when is was fully operational.*
    Why should they care? It was past onto them because no other department would take care of the site.*
    Finally someone wants to take full responsibility for the site for all the write reasons. *What is there to question? What is there to think about? This is a very historic site!
    The parks department has to approve and provide full support for the development of the Edmonton Civil Defence Museum or be faced in demolishing the facility in which they would encure the cost of three to six million dollars.*
    It's nothing to question as it's clearly logic that the parks department has too approve and support the Edmonton Civil Defence Museum. If the parks department doesn't approve the development of the site, people from across Canada and the USA will be pointing there fingers at Edmonton Parks *Department. **
    Welcome to the Edmonton world of heritage.

    Hate to be that way but I have been up against issues like this before and facing some similar now.

    Best advise is to hang in there!!!! Keep pushing.

    Can you provide and e-mail or mailing address we can write to add to the push?

    Persistence and public pressure is what is going to break this deadlock.

    E-mail your councilor and the Mayor if you support this initiative...I am.

    Tom

  62. #62

    Default

    I do support this and I have emailed my city councilor. I need all the support I can get!

  63. #63

    Default

    Update:
    I have had a chance to look back on the past few months and I shake my head. I have support of people from coast to coast and Ottawa but when it comes to Edmonton City officials, I have no support. The only thing that the city has done, is posed one obstacle after another. The city has more interest in putting steel balls on a bridge that costs five hundred thousand dollars, rather then the city's history. Whats the problem here? The city is nothing without history! I am not asking the city for money, I am asking the city for there support not for there challenges!

  64. #64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    Update:
    I have had a chance to look back on the past few months and I shake my head. I have support of people from coast to coast and Ottawa but when it comes to Edmonton City officials, I have no support. The only thing that the city has done, is posed one obstacle after another. The city has more interest in putting steel balls on a bridge that costs five hundred thousand dollars, rather then the city's history. Whats the problem here? The city is nothing without history! I am not asking the city for money, I am asking the city for there support not for there challenges!
    Take a deeeeeeeep breath. In through the nosse, out through the mouth (LOL).

    You have to laugh to make it the distance.

    I know exactly what you are going through, I too live it and there is only one way to win.

    Tenacity...don't give up just keep pushing, gaining support, gaining supporters and sponsors. Each step you take that is successful breaches another barrier. Each victory no matter how small you make think it is another stepping stone to the overall goal.

    It won't happen overnight, nothing worthwhile does. but keep hacking at the barriers.

    Need to have a coffee sometime, drop by and vent...you know where I am.
    Tom

  65. #65

    Default

    What Tom said.

    You have a great vision here. Don't give up on it.

    I live not too far from the shelter and would love to see this come to fruition. If you need help with this in any way, let us know!

  66. #66

    Default

    Any updates on this one?

    I find it hard to believe there isn't any support from council to renew this historical gem.

  67. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post
    Any updates on this one?

    I find it hard to believe there isn't any support from council to renew this historical gem.
    I'm on the periphery of this one but they have made some great headway.
    - Society formed
    - Board of Directors
    - They are part of the greater Canadian Civil Defense Historical group
    - Collection going together...the air raid sirens they have collected are cool
    - Ongoing work with the City of gain possession
    - Got some neat goodies

    The Alberta Aviation Museum is storing and displaying a small number of items for them and helping where we can.

    Visit their facebook page for updates...

    Long row to hoe but they are doing the right stuff and working hard.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  68. #68
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    Vue Magazine had an article a couple weeks ago:

    The Heritage Council has been showcasing fascinating but little known history since last year with their Curiosities Bus Tours. Last November the council loaded up ETS buses and got compelling storytellers to detail everything from a pioneering Chinese restaurant to aviation history to the first gay bars.

    Nuclear war in Edmonton
    The bus tour also visits a surreal slice of Cold War paranoia: a real nuclear fallout shelter and command centre built hidden in the River Valley. Local photographer Fred Armbruster says he stumbled across the squat, concrete cube while out for a walk in 2010 and was instantly transfixed by the mysterious discovery.

    “It was cold and dark and dingy,” Armbruster says. “When I started looking into it I found there was next to no information available. That’s when I realized that this was a part of our history that had been pushed aside and forgotten.”

    He’s also amassed the second-largest collection of Cold War artifacts in the country, behind only Ottawa’s storied Diefenbunker. Armbruster wants to completely restore the bunker to its original condition and open it as a museum and venue for everything from weddings to reunions. He says the project has sparked a lot of enthusiasm and interest from people across the country and is evidence that Edmonton is a place full of amazing stories just itching for an audience.

    http://www.vueweekly.com/the-story-of-edmonton/

  69. #69

    Default

    Been several years but I cannot find any working links with pictures inside the Mackenzie ravine civil war bomb shelter. Do any still exist ?

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Been several years but I cannot find any working links with pictures inside the Mackenzie ravine civil war bomb shelter. Do any still exist ?
    Canadas civil war has yet to start.

  71. #71

  72. #72
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    It's too bad they couldn't have saved the one at Penhold, it was a big one. Once the Hells Angels got a hold of it the government purchased it back for a large amount and dismantled it. Stupid.(post #17)
    Last edited by Drumbones; 18-06-2015 at 06:03 PM.

  73. #73

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Been several years but I cannot find any working links with pictures inside the Mackenzie ravine civil war bomb shelter. Do any still exist ?
    Canadas civil war has yet to start.
    Nice! Warm war... I mean Cold

  74. #74

    Default

    Anyone know if the City is even considering opening this up to the public as a museum? I know the civildefenseedmonton.com website group is soliciting donations, but what are funds being put towards if the City is not even receptive to opening the site?

  75. #75

    Default

    Blake thank you for your question. You can view the bunker tour http://civildefencemuseum.ca/edmonton-bunker-2

    The Canadian Civil Defence Museum Association is not soliciting donations as they're a nationally focused organization on Canada's Cold War History. The Edmonton bunker is just one of the things they're
    working on.
    Thank you once again

  76. #76

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's too bad they couldn't have saved the one at Penhold, it was a big one. Once the Hells Angels got a hold of it the government purchased it back for a large amount and dismantled it. Stupid.(post #17)
    I believe a couple farmers or businessmen owned it and no gang ever did. The government bought it back and instead of spending a few hundred dollars on gravel, or a few thousand on cement to seal the doors until a use was found for it, they spent a million, or millions, to demolish it. Money that could have been spent saving lives in a hospital or something gets spent on tasks like this.

  77. #77

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's too bad they couldn't have saved the one at Penhold, it was a big one. Once the Hells Angels got a hold of it the government purchased it back for a large amount and dismantled it. Stupid.(post #17)
    I believe a couple farmers or businessmen owned it and no gang ever did. The government bought it back and instead of spending a few hundred dollars on gravel, or a few thousand on cement to seal the doors until a use was found for it, they spent a million, or millions, to demolish it. Money that could have been spent saving lives in a hospital or something gets spent on tasks like this.
    The Penhold bunker was actually bought by three business men and they proposed to develop a grow up operation for medical use. The government found out about this and purchased the bunker back. It was demolish for just under 1 million.

    Please see below video and photos
    https://youtu.be/hrGcn9GbqfU

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...-was-destroyed

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...fenbunker-demo

  78. #78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's too bad they couldn't have saved the one at Penhold, it was a big one. Once the Hells Angels got a hold of it the government purchased it back for a large amount and dismantled it. Stupid.(post #17)
    I believe a couple farmers or businessmen owned it and no gang ever did. The government bought it back and instead of spending a few hundred dollars on gravel, or a few thousand on cement to seal the doors until a use was found for it, they spent a million, or millions, to demolish it. Money that could have been spent saving lives in a hospital or something gets spent on tasks like this.
    The Penhold bunker was actually bought by three business men and they proposed to develop a grow up operation for medical use. The government found out about this and purchased the bunker back. It was demolish for just under 1 million.

    Please see below video and photos
    https://youtu.be/hrGcn9GbqfU

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...-was-destroyed

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...fenbunker-demo
    I don't see why these old historical artifacts can't be saved and eventually turned into revenue generators.


    77,000 square feet!
    http://www.paulpettypiece.com/penhold_base.htm
    Last edited by KC; 01-07-2015 at 08:54 PM.

  79. #79

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Metabolic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It's too bad they couldn't have saved the one at Penhold, it was a big one. Once the Hells Angels got a hold of it the government purchased it back for a large amount and dismantled it. Stupid.(post #17)
    I believe a couple farmers or businessmen owned it and no gang ever did. The government bought it back and instead of spending a few hundred dollars on gravel, or a few thousand on cement to seal the doors until a use was found for it, they spent a million, or millions, to demolish it. Money that could have been spent saving lives in a hospital or something gets spent on tasks like this.
    The Penhold bunker was actually bought by three business men and they proposed to develop a grow up operation for medical use. The government found out about this and purchased the bunker back. It was demolish for just under 1 million.

    Please see below video and photos
    https://youtu.be/hrGcn9GbqfU

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...-was-destroyed

    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/penhold...fenbunker-demo
    I don't see why these old historical artifacts can't be saved and eventually turned into revenue generators.
    They sure can be but only by a private sector because of corporate requirements

  80. #80

    Default The CCDMA

    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    Anyone know if the City is even considering opening this up to the public as a museum? I know the civildefenseedmonton.com website group is soliciting donations, but what are funds being put towards if the City is not even receptive to opening the site?

    Thank you Blake for your concerns.
    The CCDMA is focused on Canada's National Cold War History not just the Edmonton bunker. If you are truly interested maybe think of becoming a member. We are trying to do our best and our efforts require everyone's support.
    Thank you
    http://civildefencemuseum.ca/

  81. #81
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    Default

    Is work still happening on this bunker museum?

  82. #82

    Default

    Maybe we can sell it.

    Note the photo of the Edmonton shelter heading this story:

    Wednesday February 15, 2017
    Bomb shelter sales skyrocket in response to Trump presidency

    http://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent/t...ency-1.3982469


    "The Edmonton civil defence bunker, built in 1945, was designed to house Edmonton's political and military leaders in the event of an attack. (Canadian Civil Defence Museum"
    Last edited by KC; 16-02-2017 at 10:02 AM.

  83. #83
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    The date on that is wrong. The bunker was built in 1952, according to its official You Tube video.

    link

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    The date on that is wrong. The bunker was built in 1952, according to its official You Tube video.

    link
    "Among those still standing is the Edmonton civil defense bunker, built in 1954 in the Crestwood neighborhood. "www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/most-likely-to-be-bombed-unearthing-edmonton-s-cold-war-secrets-1.3939084
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  85. #85
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    Edmonton's Cold War command centre sealed tight, but not forgotten
    Group works to make abandoned bunker into museum dedicated to city's civil defence history
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...nton-1.4366782
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  86. #86

    Default

    There has been talk about developing this site into a museum for the last 7 years. But nothing ever materializes. Anyone know if there are even plans to consider this ?

  87. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by overoceans View Post
    The date on that is wrong. The bunker was built in 1952, according to its official You Tube video.

    link
    "Among those still standing is the Edmonton civil defense bunker, built in 1954 in the Crestwood neighborhood. "www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/most-likely-to-be-bombed-unearthing-edmonton-s-cold-war-secrets-1.3939084
    Thanks for the link. More from that article:
    Also note that there is an interior photo in this article.
    There’s also mention of backyard bomb shelters. (I know of a Crestwood home with one under the attached garage.)


    Edmonton was the most well-prepared in Canada, alongside Ottawa and Vancouver'

    Wallis Snowdon · CBC News
    January 17, 2017

    Excerpts:

    "Edmonton was the most likely to be bombed if something did happen," said Fred Armbruster, executive director of the Canadian Civil Defence Museum Association in Edmonton. "At least, that's what was believed.

    "We had a lot of things going on in Edmonton at the time ... and those gave us reason to have greater fear of something happening."...

    Emergency recordings were at the ready, set to be broadcast across the radio waves in the event of disaster. Air raid sirens were placed strategically across the city. Now long dismantled, their rising wail would have given residents a final warning to take cover or flee the city for the relative safety of the countryside.

    By 1954, Canadian officials began to plan for the evacuation of major target cities within three hours of receiving an attack warning.

    In Edmonton,...”

    A network of impenetrable bomb shelters were dug under government and military buildings.
    ...”


    Though fears of nuclear attack have faded with time, Armbruster thinks Edmonton has something to learn from our post-war predecessors.

    "We are not prepared, by any means, for an emergency in general," he said. "I think Fort McMurray [during last May's wildfire] was the perfect example of that.

    "People were running out gas, people were running out of food. They didn't have any provisions in place for an evacuation-type emergency. In the Cold War era, everyone was educated." ...”






    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/e...rets-1.3939084




    Bolding was mine
    Last edited by KC; 13-11-2017 at 07:43 AM.

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