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Thread: CX on 110 | Residential | Proposed

  1. #101

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    Happy 10th anniversary for this thread!
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    Probably time to update this thread to be CX Grandin instead of 'The Oliver'. I'm sure someone can track down some better renders now that this project is announced




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    Quote Originally Posted by AUsenik View Post
    Probably time to update this thread to be CX Grandin instead of 'The Oliver'. I'm sure someone can track down some better renders now that this project is announced




    Maybe get rid of the word "Tower" while admin is at it. Looks like 5 floors above grade walkup maybe with an elevator.

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    Maybe an elevator. Ok.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUsenik View Post


    This is pretty homely.

  6. #106

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    The mobile sales centre was at the Alberta avenue Kaleido festival this past weekend - although sales haven't started yet.Sales person said project will be breaking ground in March. Building will feature some large town homes (for families) as well as some small 400sq ft lofts.looking forward to more density in Grandin/Oliver that this project will add.

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    ^It will be a fantastic development. They are also building a tot-lot/play area as an amenity to help attract families.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    ^It will be a fantastic development. They are also building a tot-lot/play area as an amenity to help attract families.
    “Fantastic” you say .... with that design is BIG stretch

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    Name a mid-rise built in Edmonton with better design.

  10. #110

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    ^It's pretty bland, with just some tacked-on looking wooden boxes like so many pinterest picture frames.

    There's worse out there, for sure, but it's not significantly better, or even different, from the Boyle Renaissance projects. We don't have a whole lot of mid-rise in Edmonton, but there's Lessard House which had better be better for that price. What else is there mid-rise? There's lots of 4 story stuff that's bad but that would be low rise.
    There can only be one.

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    Windsor Terrace was going to be one sweet mid rise before the neighbourhood neutered it. Will still be decent.

    Some of the existing buildings at Century park might be considered mid-rise and look quite nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^It's pretty bland, with just some tacked-on looking wooden boxes like so many pinterest picture frames.

    There's worse out there, for sure, but it's not significantly better, or even different, from the Boyle Renaissance projects. We don't have a whole lot of mid-rise in Edmonton, but there's Lessard House which had better be better for that price. What else is there mid-rise? There's lots of 4 story stuff that's bad but that would be low rise.
    That's part of the point I'm making. There is virtually no well designed mid-rise in Edmonton, for a variety of reasons. They're tough projects to make work financially is the biggest. Yet we have an armchair quarterback who can't even count floors (there's 6) declaring that it's awful, despite there being virtually nothing in the city past, present or future that even comes close to it.

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    AMEN er, Bingo Marcel. This will be a fantastic project start to finish, front to back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bleppers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AUsenik View Post


    This is pretty homely.

    Its fugly!!!!

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    FAR from.
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  16. #116

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    ^^So what are the circumstances where under which this kind of mid-rise becomes feasible (financially and otherwise) from a development perspective? For instance a large enough development site that included towers?

  17. #117

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    Very curious to see layouts and pricing here. I'm not blown away by the design, but I would live in it if the units are nice and affordable.
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" - Einstein

  18. #118

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    ^^There's not much RA8 zoning, for one thing. It's also not big enough usually that the costs to rezone would be worth it, unlike highrise.

    Then there are the actual costs of building. Because you can't just do stick frame it's going to cost more than low-rise, minimum parking requirements and being already up-market mean more than one level of underground parking (usually) which is also more expensive.
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    The newer renders of this one look quite nice. It will be a high quality product.

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    Just a reminder of what this development will be replacing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    This is what I see when I look up 10024 - 110 Street NW
    https://goo.gl/maps/oWFkfwX8Uv62

    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Much less about what it is replacing, but rather what it is providing. A mixture of housing including some larger 2 storey/townhouse style in a low-rise which many people prefer over being on floor 30.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Just a reminder of what this development will be replacing

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    This is what I see when I look up 10024 - 110 Street NW
    https://goo.gl/maps/oWFkfwX8Uv62


    Oh its nice to replace this crap, but I still think its fugly..

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Much less about what it is replacing, but rather what it is providing. A mixture of housing including some larger 2 storey/townhouse style in a low-rise which many people prefer over being on floor 30.
    Highly agree and much needed. More zoning needs to reflect this and aid this kind of layout/orientation.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^It's pretty bland, with just some tacked-on looking wooden boxes like so many pinterest picture frames.

    There's worse out there, for sure, but it's not significantly better, or even different, from the Boyle Renaissance projects. We don't have a whole lot of mid-rise in Edmonton, but there's Lessard House which had better be better for that price. What else is there mid-rise? There's lots of 4 story stuff that's bad but that would be low rise.
    That's part of the point I'm making. There is virtually no well designed mid-rise in Edmonton, for a variety of reasons. They're tough projects to make work financially is the biggest. Yet we have an armchair quarterback who can't even count floors (there's 6) declaring that it's awful, despite there being virtually nothing in the city past, present or future that even comes close to it.
    So because people have built uglier buildings this isn't crappy? Even if you do accept this weird aesthetic relativism framework, this building being "decent" is much more of a comment on how low the bar is here than the project's virtues.

    The reason there is virtually no well-designed mid-rise in Edmonton is because you can build ugly buildings and people will buy them.

    It's bullcrap* to blame this on tight margins. I've seen plenty of expensive buildings that are crappy, and plenty of cheap buildings that are beautiful. This is just lazy design.

    So ya, this is better than the typical Edmonton midrise, but it still sucks. The totally hackneyed square protrusion thing? The fake woodgrain panels? The totally artless control joints/panel joints? The two-tone paintjob? Ugh.

    * I can't believe you can't swear on here, that's hilarious

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    Stopped by the sales launch this weekend. A couple unique things they mentioned about the project:

    -There will be 2 cars leased by the condo board that can be used by the resident. It's like a private Pogo for the building.
    -First building in Edmonton to use Glue Laminated Timber construction. By using this they are going to leave all the ceilings exposed wood and floors polished concrete.

    They showed interior renderings for the first time, but I don't see them posted anywhere on their website or instagram yet.

    Looked like there was already 10+ units sold by the time I went through. One of the floorplans was already sold out.

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUsenik View Post
    There will be 2 cars leased by the condo board that can be used by the resident. It's like a private Pogo for the building.
    Interesting concept if doesn't turn into a boondoggle.
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    Interesting idea. Unfortunately from what I've seen living in a condo for a decade and just knowing the human race, I doubt it will go well unless it is very heavily monitored and policed by the corporation. Most people get along with each other fine, but there's always some misanthrope or total waste of skin that will ruin it for everyone else.

  28. #128

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    In principle it could work, but as a one-off it might not go well. If they were able to similar onboard equipment and monitoring to Zipcar or Pogo with constant monitoring, key in or card in and pay per use it will be fine. Honour system with a paper sign-up would be a disaster.

    Something like this could be a huge amenity in a bigger, more downmarket building where more residents would be on the bubble of car ownership. A handful of shared cars could replace a lot of private cars (and expensive parking spaces) in a building full of people just starting out with student loans, but not so many when you're marketing to established professionals and empty nesters.
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  29. #129

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    As once a condo owner, and on the board while I was, this does not sound like a good idea. Better to make some arrangement for a stall or two for Pogo and let them handle the hassle. Communal condo living is challenge enough without adding assets designed to be used off-premises.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  30. #130

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    I wonder why they went from highrise to low rise. IMO, they should add several more floors and thin it out into mid-rise.

  31. #131
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    '-First building in Edmonton to use Glue Laminated Timber construction. By using this they are going to leave all the ceilings exposed wood and floors polished concrete.'

    Incorrect. There are multiple buildings with glulam construction.
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  32. #132
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    Why is this thread title "The Oliver"? The project is still called CX or CX on 110 as far as I know. And it's not even located in Oliver, it's in Grandin (I realize that apparently Grandin is part of Oliver).

    J22 was renamed as The Oliver. Did that get mixed up somehow?

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    The original project was 'The Oliver'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The original project was 'The Oliver'.
    There is another project coming up in Oliver on 103 ave and 113 Street called the "Oliver Condominiums". Think it may be prudent to adjust the title of the one to CX as to avoid confusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    I wonder why they went from highrise to low rise. IMO, they should add several more floors and thin it out into mid-rise.
    Because they maximized the number of units they could develop within the existing RA9 High Density Apartment zoning. They were creative with their design to develop 68 units within a 6-storey built form. Low-rise 'apartments' are typically between 3-5 storeys whereas mid-rise is 6-storeys to about 16-18 storeys imo.

    The building was designed by RAW Design out of Toronto with local design assistance from Marshall Tittemore Architects. Same designers as Windsor Park and Mezzo.

    I think the design is great as it shows how you can develop a considerable amount of units within a mid-rise built form. You don't need 20+ storeys to make it work.

  36. #136

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    Edmonton seriously lacks buildings in the 6 to 8 story range. Perhaps Blatchford will rectify that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Edmonton seriously lacks buildings in the 6 to 8 story range. Perhaps Blatchford will rectify that.
    6 - 12 stories is that “no-man’s land” for a developer. too tall to be stick frame but not tall enough to be economical in concrete.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Edmonton seriously lacks buildings in the 6 to 8 story range. Perhaps Blatchford will rectify that.
    6 - 12 stories is that “no-man’s land” for a developer. too tall to be stick frame but not tall enough to be economical in concrete.
    Out of curiosity, why is that exactly? In the suburbs there's lots of shorter condos that are concrete structure. One would assume economies of scale factor in and that developments become more profitable into the mid-rise range.
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  39. #139

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    ^^^^
    Thanks for that insight chris! You are correct that it does not need to be 20 stories; I like the concept but think it would work better with an addition of 2 or 3 floors.

    ^^
    Ken or Chris, could they not do 2 or 3 floors out of steel then counter that with wood for another 5 floors after? If so, how much of cost factor would be involved vs a maximum height wood frame? when it comes to this matter, my hair is dense blond as can be.
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  40. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Edmonton seriously lacks buildings in the 6 to 8 story range. Perhaps Blatchford will rectify that.
    6 - 12 stories is that “no-man’s land” for a developer. too tall to be stick frame but not tall enough to be economical in concrete.
    What about steel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Edmonton seriously lacks buildings in the 6 to 8 story range. Perhaps Blatchford will rectify that.
    6 - 12 stories is that “no-man’s land” for a developer. too tall to be stick frame but not tall enough to be economical in concrete.
    Out of curiosity, why is that exactly? In the suburbs there's lots of shorter condos that are concrete structure. One would assume economies of scale factor in and that developments become more profitable into the mid-rise range.
    Most of the low rise <4-storeys are wood frame, not concrete. And yes, scale of economies is a big part of why you don't see many buildings in the 6-12 storey range.

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    ^Yeah, probably less than 10% of the 4 story "high-rise on their sides" type buildings are of concrete or steel construction. The vast, vast majority are wood.

    Once a building gets to 6+ stories, it has to be of "non-combustible" construction. That has a cost impact on pretty much every aspect of the building, from the structure to the plumbing/mechanical to the kinds of materials that can be used. Along with a few other things that's a big part of why, as Ken says, going only kind of high-rise often makes little or no sense financially for developers.

  43. #143

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    Yet you see these 6-12 storey projects being built in Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, and even Quebec City. Montreal and Quebec City home prices are cheaper than Edmonton's and Calgary just recently started doing this. What is the missing link on the chain that prevents developers from building such buildings in Edmonton besides non-combustible construction?
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  44. #144

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    I started a new thread about this topic so this one can stay on topic.

    Here is a link: http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...924#post853924
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  45. #145
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    Lofts start at 225K and townhouses from 600K, not including parking and GST.

    The townhouses have quite nice layouts. There are some on the top floor that feature rooftop terraces as well.

    They sound quite nice, TBH.
    http://cxgrandin.com/wp-content/uplo...D-FINISHES.pdf
    Last edited by nobleea; 20-11-2017 at 01:03 PM.

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    Indeed. We definitely need more TH style units in and around the Downtown core, even if 'sky' versions of them.
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  47. #147

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    Need more mid rise, concrete projects like this in the 6-10 storey range. Sorely lacking.
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    ^ Why do you say that?

    And to be transparent, I don't disagree with you, I am just curious as to people's reasons. I am not seeing this product type unlocking some magical price-point in the market, so if it just something you think there is a lot of demand for from potential buyers?

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    And wouldn't it have to be a pretty expensive product? Marcel and others on the forum have commented many times on why the economics of mid-rise are difficult in Edmonton.
    “Son, one day this will be an iconic structure shaping Edmonton’s skyline.”

  50. #150

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    I realize and appreciate the difficulties, but it's the appropriate kind of 'nice density' urban planners and cities around the world are after. I also do think there's an underserved market for mid-rise 6-12 stories.
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  51. #151

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    I had a chat with a salesperson for this project a couple of days ago. A few things that I thought were interesting:

    1. Condo fees are 42 cents/sq. ft.
    2. Condo fees include use of two shared electric vehicles for exclusive use by residents.
    3. Project to break ground in November 2018 with completion in 2020.
    4. Underground parking spots are deeded and cost $60,000 per stall.
    5. Dedicated and secure bicycle parking room on main floor.

    I'm not confident about the project breaking ground in November unless it's just demo of the existing buildings and some site prep.

    Overall, the project looks pretty good. It has a nice mix of units. Design wise I think it is a good mid-rise project. It would be nice to see more well executed mid-rise projects in Central Edmonton.

  52. #152

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    I like the idea of shared cars as an amenity, but if you're buying a parking stall anyway..... it would probably be better in a rental building.
    There can only be one.

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I like the idea of shared cars as an amenity, but if you're buying a parking stall anyway..... it would probably be better in a rental building.
    I think the idea is that some people may choose to save $60,000 by forgoing a parking stall and use the car share for short trips instead. Some families may also just have one car but occasionally need a second vehicle.

    I know if my building had a car share, I would seriously consider getting rid of mine. I drive so rarely that the fixed costs of owning a vehicle seems kind of ridiculous sometimes. It is convenient for sure, but as other transportation options improve and expand (transit, cycling infrastructure, carshare, uber), the case for going carless becomes more compelling.

  54. #154

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    Stalls in the core rent out for $300/month. Adding up all the direct and opportunity costs, owning a new car easily runs up to $1000/month. That's a lot of uber rides.

  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    I like the idea of shared cars as an amenity, but if you're buying a parking stall anyway..... it would probably be better in a rental building.
    I think the idea is that some people may choose to save $60,000 by forgoing a parking stall and use the car share for short trips instead. Some families may also just have one car but occasionally need a second vehicle.

    I know if my building had a car share, I would seriously consider getting rid of mine. I drive so rarely that the fixed costs of owning a vehicle seems kind of ridiculous sometimes. It is convenient for sure, but as other transportation options improve and expand (transit, cycling infrastructure, carshare, uber), the case for going carless becomes more compelling.
    With deeded stalls (and an inability to use that stall for anything else) there's an incentive to get that parking stall for "future" reasons even if you don't need it, so you don't get stuck without one if your job changes to somewhere inaccessible without one, or a disability or other life change makes it necessary. Sure it's expensive but you get that back in resale in the near and medium term.

    And if you have that stall your costs to run a car are that much less, so you do.


    If parking were owned by shares and rented from the condo board then you don't have that incentive, and if in the longer term parking is consistently under-subscribed then it's easy to convert some to storage lockers, or an additional bike room or (in a big complex) even something like a shop.
    There can only be one.

  56. #156

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    ^

    That's an interesting approach to parking. I think it would require a very capable condo board to run the program properly but it could work in theory.

    Another option is to allow unused deeded stalls to be rented to other tenants in the building looking for additional parking.

    Anyway, car storage is expensive and parking ratios on new developments are trending downward and I don't see this trend reversing any time soon. I think having deeded parking spots is important in helping people understand the costs of parking and allows them to make an informed decision of whether they want to carry that cost or not.

  57. #157

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    Either that or just advertise in house to rent out. It is best to keep your stalls for future resale if you come to that point.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  58. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.D View Post
    I had a chat with a salesperson for this project a couple of days ago. A few things that I thought were interesting:

    ...
    3. Project to break ground in November 2018 with completion in 2020.
    ...

    I'm not confident about the project breaking ground in November unless it's just demo of the existing buildings and some site prep.

    Overall, the project looks pretty good. It has a nice mix of units. Design wise I think it is a good mid-rise project. It would be nice to see more well executed mid-rise projects in Central Edmonton.
    Anyone have an update on this? Would be cool to see them start digging.

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    Demo permit in.
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  60. #160

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    Is this selling right now?
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    It is for sale, yes.
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  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    It is for sale, yes.
    Any idea how it’s doing sales wise?

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    Slowish, but tis the market right now.
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  64. #164

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    I also feel these are way overpriced, but that's probably just me.
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    Pretty unique product in the market, though. Other than Ice District, West Block and CX are probably two of the higher end projects built in Edmonton. They're not targeting the same market that Westrich and Langham are.

  66. #166

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    Which is?
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    Inhouse is clearly targeting empty nesters or families looking to downsize in to a condo, while Westrich/Langham are targeting a younger demographic and/or investors. The suite mixes/sizes in their respective projects make this pretty obvious.

  68. #168

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    Got you!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  69. #169

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    Thanks Marcel. I don't fit in either of those categories, so it makes sense that I think it's overpriced
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    Having lived (and worked) in rural Alberta for awhile, I think us city folks underestimate the impact rural families have on our condo market.

    How? Well, many are the rural parents I know who have purchased condos in Edmonton so their kids can attend university / college here, so that when the kids graduate and they retire ....

    Blammo - home in the city for mom and dad while darling graduate child rents an apartment.

    Indeed, there are a half dozen or more such residences in my building alone.
    ... gobsmacked

  71. #171

    Default

    Wouldn't be a bad way to advertise that concept. It is a different perspective.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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