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Thread: South LRT | Health Sciences to Century Park | Completed

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    you guys seem to forget that these are people who go in and out of hospitals. they often do that for a reason. climb onto a bus, then get off the bus, then go to LRT is doable, but if a person has reduced mobility, it is not ideal.
    I am quite sure that a severely disabled person will have a family member, a friend or DAT's to take them to the hospital. There is a minimal chance that they are going to take LRT.

    That pretty much sums it up right there....

  2. #202

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    Ralph - I think your numbers are a bit extreme here. 13 years of 20% inflation seems unsustainable in any industry. However, as I've said before we need better information on what LRT is actually costing us vs. ancilliary costs. Oh, can you give the source address for the Calgary costs. I still cannot find a listing on their website? I found this graphic on SSP.



  3. #203
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    Mick, obviously 20% inlation is extreme. That is why I costed things like the tunnelling and river crossings the same as on grade construction. Even if inflation is cut in half, the numbers are still astronomical.
    Here is the Calgary link;
    http://www.calgarytransit.com/Calgar...tilization.pdf

    P.S. as a native, lifelong Edmontonian, nothing galls me more than an unfavorable comparison to Cowgary, especially when I am the one making it.

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD
    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    you guys seem to forget that these are people who go in and out of hospitals. they often do that for a reason. climb onto a bus, then get off the bus, then go to LRT is doable, but if a person has reduced mobility, it is not ideal.
    I am quite sure that a severely disabled person will have a family member, a friend or DAT's to take them to the hospital. There is a minimal chance that they are going to take LRT.

    That pretty much sums it up right there....
    no one is talking about severely handicapped. just plain sick. how agile are you when you have fever?

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD
    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    you guys seem to forget that these are people who go in and out of hospitals. they often do that for a reason. climb onto a bus, then get off the bus, then go to LRT is doable, but if a person has reduced mobility, it is not ideal.
    I am quite sure that a severely disabled person will have a family member, a friend or DAT's to take them to the hospital. There is a minimal chance that they are going to take LRT.

    That pretty much sums it up right there....
    no one is talking about severely handicapped. just plain sick. how agile are you when you have fever?
    If I am ill to the point where I need to go to the hospital, I'm not hoppin' on a bus or LRT. And I am willing to bet that the majority of the others would do the same.

  6. #206

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    I've broken bones and taken the bus to emergency....

  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    I've broken bones and taken the bus to emergency....
    m0nkyman or superman?

  8. #208
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    Don't forget that there are lots of people who work at hospitals, and they're not all highly paid doctors and nurses. If I was working a crappy hospital job I'd appreciate good transit service.

  9. #209
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    I don't mind seeing the 3D model but I wonder if there is any architectural drawings for that station. For example there are some pretty extensive pictures of the Belgravia station and even some nice drawings of the Southgate station but not much for south campus.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  10. #210

    Default SLRT to boost property value: investor

    Trains and buses getting more crowded

    Gordon Kent, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Sunday, May 27, 2007


    A study showing more people are leaving their cars behind and taking public transit downtown should spur plans to extend the LRT system, transportation planning manager Brice Stephenson says.

    Over the last three years, the number of commuters going to Edmonton's core by private vehicle dropped six per cent while transit ridership jumped 12.1 per cent, according to the Central Business District Cordon Report released earlier this month.

    Driving is still the most popular way of getting in and out of the city centre, but for a gradually declining proportion of local travellers - 73 per cent this year compared to 75 per cent in 2000.

    "A lot of this is telling me that the actions that have been taken through the downtown plan and investments in transit are starting to pay off," Stephenson said.

    "It's telling me people are reacting in the way we would hope in terms of using more transit. That's good, because we want to encourage more transit and pedestrians and cyclists."

    The study measured the number of vehicles and passengers entering or leaving the area from 96th Avenue to 105th Avenue, and 97th Street to 109th Street, although anyone walking or riding a bicycle wasn't included.

    Transit staff have been gearing up for detailed planning of a proposed LRT route to NAIT that's been on the back burner since it was accepted in principle by city councillors more than two years ago.

    The central business district report should support that work by showing the system is being well-used, Stephenson said.

    "(With) this information, in combination with the household travel survey and our surveys of park-and-ride, there's some pretty good ammunition here for extending the LRT."

    Public transit accounts for about nine per cent of all trips taken in Edmonton, about the same figure as a decade ago.

    But one reason it's becoming a more popular way to get downtown is the rising cost of parking, caused partly by the loss of surface lots to housing and other developments, Stephenson said.

    More northeast commuters are also being counted as they take the LRT through the city centre to the south side, he said.

    As well, people are being attracted to events in Edmonton's increasingly vibrant core, he said.

    Coun. Michael Phair said the study should give support to a new northern LRT line as well as a bus rapid transit (BRT) connection between downtown and Mill Woods.

    "I'm particularly pleased to see transit ridership to downtown going up, and as we continue to extend the LRT and BRT we will see continuing larger numbers of people going downtown by transit."

    Two new programs could increase that ridership even more. In one promotion aimed at downtown companies, Edmonton Transit is offering a 12-per-cent employee discount on monthly bus passes to firms that will match or exceed this subsidy.

    About 370 workers at five organizations have signed up since the scheme started in March, said Patricia Waisman, Edmonton Transit's director of business development.

    In September, the U-Pass starts for Grant MacEwan college and University of Alberta students, giving them monthly transit passes for a mandatory fee of $75 to $90 per four-month term.

    If the program succeeds at these two schools, with total enrolment of roughly 40,000 full-time students, it could be expanded.

    City council recently approved a policy that will hike the price of monthly adult transit passes 50 per cent over the next five years, to $89 from $59, as well as boosting other fares.

    But the strong economy and the rising cost of using a car mean the system should still see ridership go up about three per cent a year, Waisman said.

    [email protected]
    Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--

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    Default Re: Trains and buses getting more crowded

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Trains and buses getting more crowded

    Gordon Kent, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Sunday, May 27, 2007


    A study showing more people are leaving their cars behind and taking public transit downtown should spur plans to extend the LRT system, transportation planning manager Brice Stephenson says.

    Over the last three years, the number of commuters going to Edmonton's core by private vehicle dropped six per cent while transit ridership jumped 12.1 per cent, according to the Central Business District Cordon Report released earlier this month.

    Driving is still the most popular way of getting in and out of the city centre, but for a gradually declining proportion of local travellers - 73 per cent this year compared to 75 per cent in 2000.

    "A lot of this is telling me that the actions that have been taken through the downtown plan and investments in transit are starting to pay off," Stephenson said.

    "It's telling me people are reacting in the way we would hope in terms of using more transit. That's good, because we want to encourage more transit and pedestrians and cyclists."

    The study measured the number of vehicles and passengers entering or leaving the area from 96th Avenue to 105th Avenue, and 97th Street to 109th Street, although anyone walking or riding a bicycle wasn't included.

    Transit staff have been gearing up for detailed planning of a proposed LRT route to NAIT that's been on the back burner since it was accepted in principle by city councillors more than two years ago.

    The central business district report should support that work by showing the system is being well-used, Stephenson said.

    "(With) this information, in combination with the household travel survey and our surveys of park-and-ride, there's some pretty good ammunition here for extending the LRT."

    Public transit accounts for about nine per cent of all trips taken in Edmonton, about the same figure as a decade ago.

    But one reason it's becoming a more popular way to get downtown is the rising cost of parking, caused partly by the loss of surface lots to housing and other developments, Stephenson said.

    More northeast commuters are also being counted as they take the LRT through the city centre to the south side, he said.

    As well, people are being attracted to events in Edmonton's increasingly vibrant core, he said.

    Coun. Michael Phair said the study should give support to a new northern LRT line as well as a bus rapid transit (BRT) connection between downtown and Mill Woods.

    "I'm particularly pleased to see transit ridership to downtown going up, and as we continue to extend the LRT and BRT we will see continuing larger numbers of people going downtown by transit."

    Two new programs could increase that ridership even more. In one promotion aimed at downtown companies, Edmonton Transit is offering a 12-per-cent employee discount on monthly bus passes to firms that will match or exceed this subsidy.

    About 370 workers at five organizations have signed up since the scheme started in March, said Patricia Waisman, Edmonton Transit's director of business development.

    In September, the U-Pass starts for Grant MacEwan college and University of Alberta students, giving them monthly transit passes for a mandatory fee of $75 to $90 per four-month term.

    If the program succeeds at these two schools, with total enrolment of roughly 40,000 full-time students, it could be expanded.

    City council recently approved a policy that will hike the price of monthly adult transit passes 50 per cent over the next five years, to $89 from $59, as well as boosting other fares.

    But the strong economy and the rising cost of using a car mean the system should still see ridership go up about three per cent a year, Waisman said.

    [email protected]
    Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--
    As always, increased transit ridership is a good thing. Soon, the LRT will reach the south end of the city. Projections are that the LRT will also extend North and West. These are definitely good things, however my concern is that rolling these services out too far too soon will not incent people enough to infill areas that need to be infilled.

    We only need to look at Calgary for an example of "too much too soon".

    I'm no expert on municipal mass transit, but I just moved back from Calgary and noticed one major problem while there.
    - Increased access to mass transit in outlying areas serves a great purpose for those living close it. However, increased access in effect also enables people to commute from farther distances via "Park & Ride" services.

    This is a luxury.

    When I left Calgary, citizens were arguing for more parking spaces to the proposed Dalhousie north LRT expansion parking lot. I don't know the outcome of the decision of the Park & Ride parking lots, but it would be a shame if the same scenario became a problem here in Edmonton.

    So... if we are to expand the LRT North to NAIT and beyond and West to the mall, we should take a good long look at how the parking is handled around these facilities to prevent unnecessary commuting and promote more urban infill. Frankly, I don't want to be paying for the extension of the LRT any farther than necessary.

  12. #212

    Default LRT on track to expansion, official says

    LRT on track to expansion, official says
    growing ridership makes case for wider coverage


    Gordon Kent, The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Monday, May 28, 2007


    A study showing more people are leaving their cars behind and taking public transit downtown should spur plans to extend the LRT system, transportation planning manager Brice Stephenson says.

    Over the last three years, the number of commuters going to Edmonton's core by private vehicle dropped six per cent while transit ridership jumped 12.1 per cent, according to the Central Business District Cordon Report released earlier this month.

    Driving is still the most popular way of getting in and out of the city centre, but for a gradually declining proportion of local travellers -- 73 per cent this year compared to 75 per cent in 2000.

    City transit staff have been gearing up for detailed planning of a proposed LRT route to NAIT that has been on the back burner for two years.

    "A lot of this is telling me that the actions that have been taken through the downtown plan and investments in transit are starting to pay off," Stephenson said.

    "It's telling me people are reacting in the way we would hope in terms of using more transit. That's good, because we want to encourage more transit and pedestrians and cyclists."

    The study measured the number of vehicles and passengers entering or leaving the area from 96th Avenue to 105th Avenue, and 97th Street to 109th Street, although anyone walking or riding a bicycle wasn't included.

    Transit staff have been gearing up for detailed planning of a proposed LRT route to NAIT that's been on the back burner since it was accepted in principle by city councillors more than two years ago.

    The central business district report should support that work by showing the system is being well-used, Stephenson said.

    "(With) this information, in combination with the household travel survey and our surveys of park-and-ride, there's some pretty good ammunition here for extending the LRT."

    Public transit accounts for about nine per cent of all trips taken in Edmonton, about the same figure as a decade ago.

    But one reason it's becoming a more popular way to get downtown is the rising cost of parking, caused partly by the loss of surface lots to housing and other developments, Stephenson said.

    More northeast commuters are also being counted as they take the LRT through the city centre to the south side, he said.

    As well, people are being attracted to events in Edmonton's increasingly vibrant core, he said.

    Coun. Michael Phair said the study should give support to a new northern LRT line as well as a bus rapid transit (BRT) connection between downtown and Mill Woods.

    "I'm particularly pleased to see transit ridership to downtown going up, and as we continue to extend the LRT and BRT, we will see continuing larger numbers of people going downtown by transit."

    Two new programs could increase that ridership even more. In one promotion aimed at downtown companies, Edmonton Transit is offering a 12-per-cent employee discount on monthly bus passes to firms that will match or exceed this subsidy.

    About 370 workers at five organizations have signed up since the scheme started in March, said Patricia Waisman, Edmonton Transit's director of business development.

    In September, the U-Pass starts for Grant MacEwan college and University of Alberta students, giving them monthly transit passes for a mandatory fee of $75 to $90 per four-month term. If the program succeeds at these two schools, with total enrolment of roughly 40,000 full-time students, it could be expanded.

    City council recently approved a policy that will hike the price of monthly adult transit passes 50 per cent over the next five years, to $89 from $59, as well as boosting other fares.

    But the strong economy and the rising cost of using a car mean the system should still see ridership go up about three per cent a year, Waisman said.

    [email protected]

    EDMONTONIANS ON THE MOVE

    People in automobiles

    - Daily downtown entries and exits

    2000: 290,025

    2004: 301,217

    2007: 306,285

    - Increase from 2000 to 2007: 16,260 people (5.6 per cent)

    - Increase from 2004 to 2007: 5,068 (1.7 per cent)

    - Proportion of people travelling downtown by car:

    2000: 75.4 per cent

    2007: 73.2 per cent

    People on public transit

    - Daily downtown entries and exits

    2000: 94,731

    2004: 104,442

    2007: 112,350

    - Increase between 2000 to 2007: 17,619 people (18.6 per cent)

    - Increase between 2004 to 2007: 7,908 people (7.6 per cent)

    - Proportion of people taking public transit downtown:

    2000: 24.6 per cent

    2007: 26.8 per cent

    - Average occupancy of a bus:

    2000: 23.1 people

    2007: 24.6

    AVERAGE RIDERS PER LRT TRAIN

    2000: 84.2 people

    2007: 109.7

    The increase is particularly dramatic during the morning rush hour, when the number of people on the average bus has dropped slightly in the last seven years while the number of passengers on the average LRT train jumped 43 per cent.

    The Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--

  13. #213
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    Default Re: Trains and buses getting more crowded

    Quote Originally Posted by sweetcrude
    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Trains and buses getting more crowded
    As always, increased transit ridership is a good thing. Soon, the LRT will reach the south end of the city. Projections are that the LRT will also extend North and West. These are definitely good things, however my concern is that rolling these services out too far too soon will not incent people enough to infill areas that need to be infilled.

    We only need to look at Calgary for an example of "too much too soon".

    I'm no expert on municipal mass transit, but I just moved back from Calgary and noticed one major problem while there.
    - Increased access to mass transit in outlying areas serves a great purpose for those living close it. However, increased access in effect also enables people to commute from farther distances via "Park & Ride" services.

    This is a luxury.

    When I left Calgary, citizens were arguing for more parking spaces to the proposed Dalhousie north LRT expansion parking lot. I don't know the outcome of the decision of the Park & Ride parking lots, but it would be a shame if the same scenario became a problem here in Edmonton.

    So... if we are to expand the LRT North to NAIT and beyond and West to the mall, we should take a good long look at how the parking is handled around these facilities to prevent unnecessary commuting and promote more urban infill. Frankly, I don't want to be paying for the extension of the LRT any farther than necessary.
    they will always commute from farther distances, lets give them the LRT as an option at the very least.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  14. #214
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    The BRT to Millwoods will be great. With the 8, or even the 71, it takes forever to get downtown. Sometimes I can bike faster from where i live (by Millgate).

  15. #215
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    I hate to sound liek such a ninny, but again another blinding insight into the glaringly obvious. Give people the option to not have to fight traffic for hours, get them to major destinations and origins quickly without headaches, and offer them a more cost effective solution (aka no outrageous parking fees, less wear and tear, etc) and lo and behold people will take it. Stiffle them on a bus with a stop every 5 feet...and they won't.

    Glad to see there is excitement published on the LRT though...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  16. #216
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    Default Re: Trains and buses getting more crowded

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    they will always commute from farther distances, lets give them the LRT as an option at the very least.
    I hear ya. I don't mind so much rolling out the service farther and farther. What I don't want to see though are baseball stadium sized parking lots at the last station. That's all. Otherwise, it keeps enabling the bad habits all of us have come to enjoy.

  17. #217
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    I think that the most impressive stat is this:

    AVERAGE RIDERS PER LRT TRAIN

    2000: 84.2 people

    2007: 109.7

    I'm this stat will even be higher when the LRT construction to the South Side is complete. I'm also sure that some buses can be reassigned (e.g. East-West instead of Downtown-Southgate).

    One way of thinking of this - each LRT ride to downtown or university means that over 100 cars can stay off the roads.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat
    I think that the most impressive stat is this:

    AVERAGE RIDERS PER LRT TRAIN

    2000: 84.2 people

    2007: 109.7

    I'm this stat will even be higher when the LRT construction to the South Side is complete. I'm also sure that some buses can be reassigned (e.g. East-West instead of Downtown-Southgate).

    One way of thinking of this - each LRT ride to downtown or university means that over 100 cars can stay off the roads.

    yup...i bet once SLRT is open that number for 2010 will be more in the 150 range
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  19. #219

    Default LRT parking at Century Place at risk

    LRT parking at Century Place at risk

    Susan Ruttan, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Thursday, June 14, 2007


    People using the south LRT line may have to do without parking at both the Southgate and Century Park stations.

    Instead, a surface parking lot for LRT riders may be built on provincial land along Anthony Henday Drive, possibly around 127th Street.

    Coun. Bryan Anderson said Thursday that he's been pushing city officials to work with the province to find parking sites along the Henday.

    If the South LRT eventually heads west from 111th Street to 127th Street, before heading south again, the LRT will actually run along the Henday for that stretch, said Anderson.

    "Why wouldn't you have a 5,000-stall surface parking lot and a station right there, so that people from Leduc County, Beaumont, Devon, even people from Sherwood Park who come on the Anthony Henday, park, get on the LRT and go downtown?"

    Even before a station is built at the Henday parking site, he said, shuttle buses could bring riders from the parking lot to the LRT line.

    The land along the Henday is reserved as a transportation and utility corridor - usable for surface parking but not a permanent structure.

    Both the city's transportation manager and the mayor this week suggested a 1,200-stall parking garage at the Century Park station could cost as much as $50 million. The project hasn't been tendered yet, but construction costs are rising about 20 per cent a year, which might push the parkade cost from $30,000 to $40,000 a stall.

    "To spend $40,000 a (parking) space is not cost-effective," Mayor Stephen Mandel said during a committee discussion of the issue.

    Rick Ducharme, the transportation manager, was even more emphatic about the estimated $50-million parkade cost.

    "I could never justify it, and I'm the most passionate person on transit around," he said.

    The city originally planned to have parking for LRT riders at both the Southgate and Century Park stations, the last two stations being built in the current South LRT project.

    Parking at Southgate was scrapped last fall when the city and Southgate Centre mall couldn't agree on the price of a parkade they would both use.

    Southgate and Century Park stations are to open in 2010.

    [email protected]

    Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--

  20. #220

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    Sometimes this city does things that are really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, dumb.

  21. #221
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    Parkade costs for the century park station, just on estimate have soared to 52 million dollars. On tender I'd expect to see a number in the 55-60 million range.

  22. #222

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    WTF!!!

    This city is on crack.

    Build the Park n Ride at the LRT station(s) Southgate, and Century Park...

    My god.

  23. #223
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    Coun. Bryan Anderson said Thursday that he's been pushing city officials to work with the province to find parking sites along the Henday.

    If the South LRT eventually heads west from 111th Street to 127th Street, before heading south again, the LRT will actually run along the Henday for that stretch, said Anderson.

    "Why wouldn't you have a 5,000-stall surface parking lot and a station right there, so that people from Leduc County, Beaumont, Devon, even people from Sherwood Park who come on the Anthony Henday, park, get on the LRT and go downtown?"
    When did Anderson get elected councilor for "Greater Edmonton South"? Is this the new Ward 11 I keep hearing about?

    Or, shouldn't he be pushing for solutions for the people of his own Ward, or at least of his own city? Isn't that his job?

    Regional cooperation is nice and all, but when they're talking about gutting SLRT and cheapo WBRT, I'm not all that interested in how it will benefit the nice people of Millet.

  24. #224
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    another "well done" by the city[/list]
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0nkyman
    Sometimes this city does things that are really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, dumb.
    Yep...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  26. #226
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    Stupid on so many levels. Park and ride farther out is not a replacement for park and ride closer in, and why would we spend extra money to server out-of towners with LRT? No-one would take a shuttle bus either.

    The cost of the once-proposed parkade seems inflated, either way, they could be mitigated quite easily: Charge for parking. 1200 stalls likely would be full by 7:30 if they were free, but a small charge could both balance supply to demand, and provide revenue to offset the astronomical costs. Build it, and then charge for parking. $3 a workday for all lots (including in the NE, and a massive Henday Surface lot) would add up to enough to make the remaining costs palatable. And once the Century Parkade is paid for, use the revenue to build one at southgate, and then replace belvedere's surface lot with a parkade to free up land for Nobler uses.

    Sure, it's never been tried in Canada, but I know that Chicago Commuter Rail (Metra) charges for parking, and many of their lots are over-subscribed.

  27. #227

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    It seems to me that it stands to reason that Southgate and Century park interests stand to benefit from LRT capitualation and that long after the fact decree has resulted in little motivation to contribute or participate to shared advantage after the fact.

    In effect consuming pie before agreement to pay for it too..

    Perhaps comitting all parties to common gain and shared cost and crossing all t's and dotting i's was in order BEFORE drawing up the line?!

    just playing captain obvious here

  28. #228
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    Default Re: LRT parking at Century Place at risk

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    ...
    "Why wouldn't you have a 5,000-stall surface parking lot and a station right there, so that people from Leduc County, Beaumont, Devon, even people from Sherwood Park who come on the Anthony Henday, park, get on the LRT and go downtown?"
    ...
    This is exactly the wrong thing to do. I don't care so much that there's a park & ride location either there or at Century Park. What I find abhorrent is the projection that the parking lot would be for 5,000 vehicles.

    5,000 vehicles?

    Alright, is someone yanking our chain here or what? Is this April 1st?

    5,000 vehicles?

    Who's in charge of this? How do I get this guy out of the office he currently holds? Who in their right mind actually believes this is a good idea?

    Is it really necessary to have a lot that large and that far away from downtown?

    For 5,000 vehicles? Can't we learn any lessons from other communities? I thought this was a "smart" city. I'm beginning ro reconsider...

    I could definitely see a use for some park & ride spaces at first, but not 5,000 (and for free??). This not only would be an eyesore, it would defeat the overall purpose of rolling out mass transit out that far. We want to encourage people to make the choice to convert their main source of transportation to mass transit. We should really not be encouraging people to use BOTH vehicular transportation and LRT.

    I see this idea as completely myopic and naive.

    I concur with m0nkyman.

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    Costs are coming in very high for the SLRT for a number of projects.
    This parkade is no different, it may be a matter of deferral for the time being.

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    Baaaad idea
    that would be a huge surface parking lot

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    What's with the if you build it, they will come?
    I'm with Replacement on this; yet another example of the city putting the cart before the horse.

    I'll agree with sweetcrude as well.
    A modest parking pass or daily fee for park & rides could help offset construction costs if it's such a large concern.


    Hey, maybe since Hwy 2 gets a lot of traffic they'll add one halfway between the city and the Airport.
    Perfect for any future LRT expansion or BRT service to the airport.

    All sarcasm aside, they'd better have some parking available near the future LRT stations if they want to encourage usage.
    Waiting for the shuttle, loading/riding/unloading the shuttle... that's a lot of time wasted. It'd probably end up being faster just to drive all the way to work.

  32. #232

    Default HOW TO MAKE THE LRT NOT WORK

    HOW TO MAKE THE LRT NOT WORK

    Tue, June 19, 2007, Edmonton Sun
    By GRAHAM HICKS


    Suddenly, the city transport planners are saying, by golly, we can't afford a park 'n' ride parkade at the Century Park LRT, due to open in 2010.

    All along, a 1,500 stall parkade (about twice the size of the Library Parkade downtown) has been part of the plan. Now it's too expensive! Skyrocketing construction costs!

    Who needs car parking anyways? Let 'em take buses to the Century Park LRT.

    Sorry, it's ridiculous NOT to have a park 'n' ride at the south end of the LRT.

    Waiting 15 minutes in -30C for a bus, any bus, ain't gonna happen for Mr. and Mrs. Middle-Class.

    Parking somewhere far away and hopping on a shuttle bus to the LRT ain't gonna happen either.

    Too much hassle. Too much time. Too much braving of the elements.

    The city keeps thinking its park 'n' rides should be free. Nonsense.

    Let the park 'n' ride parkade be a business. Those who want to drive to the LRT, park at the LRT and then take the LRT should pay for the convenience.

    You'd have to pay downtown in any case. What's the difference?

    [email protected]

    --30--

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    Vancouver's Skytrain system doesn't really have a park and ride system either. A lot of their surface parking is about a shuttle bus away from each station and only 1 station actually has a parking lot close by... YET lots of people ride it. Yes Vancouver has way more people than us per square km, but isn't that what we're trying to achieve too? I don't think we should be riding the success of the LRT solely (or at least mostly) on the availability of a parking spot for someone's car.

    But I agree that if the city is really strapped for cash with parking, then they should charge a fee for users to park their cars...

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    Quote Originally Posted by egranado
    Vancouver's Skytrain system doesn't really have a park and ride system either. A lot of their surface parking is about a shuttle bus away from each station and only 1 station actually has a parking lot close by... YET lots of people ride it. Yes Vancouver has way more people than us per square km, (...)

    ...and that is the rub....Van has way more density near most stations...yes, it always was not so, but again, they 've embraced it. Here, in flatland, people will drive to a park and ride. Just look at them now...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by egranado
    Vancouver's Skytrain system doesn't really have a park and ride system either. A lot of their surface parking is about a shuttle bus away from each station and only 1 station actually has a parking lot close by... YET lots of people ride it. Yes Vancouver has way more people than us per square km, but isn't that what we're trying to achieve too? I don't think we should be riding the success of the LRT solely (or at least mostly) on the availability of a parking spot for someone's car.

    But I agree that if the city is really strapped for cash with parking, then they should charge a fee for users to park their cars...
    In vancouver skytrain is a way of life...
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    I'm with Dan, cost estimates are coming in veery high and the City can't just open up the wallet and spend in a haphazard manner. Will the parkade or some type of park n' ride be constructed, yes.

  37. #237

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by egranado
    Vancouver's Skytrain system doesn't really have a park and ride system either. A lot of their surface parking is about a shuttle bus away from each station and only 1 station actually has a parking lot close by... YET lots of people ride it. Yes Vancouver has way more people than us per square km, but isn't that what we're trying to achieve too? I don't think we should be riding the success of the LRT solely (or at least mostly) on the availability of a parking spot for someone's car.
    This is simply inaccurate. For instance.

    Scott Road P & R 1532 spaces

    South Surrey P & R 425

    King George 163

    Burnaby Production Way 220

    http://www.translink.bc.ca/Commuting_Options/park_ride/

    Not to mention ample parking at Metrotown, Lougheed Town Centre, both shopping centres do not appear to police the aprking too closely as unlike Southgate they seem to have more than adequate parking allocated. I dare say both welcome the commuter traffic as they seem to allow it. (my apology if this has recently changed)

    New Westminster also has ample pay parkades.

    Plus Huge amounts of parking at Lonsdale quay just a seabus away from downtown.

    But of course aside from that the millenium line and expo line stations are well situated, and serve a large population located as close to a mile of a station and well within walking distance.

    Westcoast Express also an interesting casestudy and approximately 2000 P & R spaces located at the various stations which are also well stuated and serving many commuters within walking distance.

    But the most significant point and difference is that Westcoast and Skytrain BEAT car commuter times handily.

    The maps don't lie and I challenge anybody to drive Mission-Waterfront in 73 minutes!

    http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transport...ss/default.asp

    or surrey Central to Waterfront in 38 minutes!

    http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transport...in/default.asp

  38. #238

    Default LRT to boost property value: investor

    LRT to boost property value: investor

    Ron Chalmers, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: Tuesday, June 19, 2007


    The southern extension of the LRT will boost the value of revenue properties south of the University of Alberta, says Don Campbell, president of the Real Estate Investment Network.

    "Edmonton is the number-one place in North America for long-term real-estate investment," he said today. But he expects the value of apartment buildings to especially rise where renters are near improved public transit.

    Campbell also likes the outlook for northeast Edmonton, near the sites of proposed bitumen upgraders, each of which will employ up to 4,000 people during construction.

    The LRT extension south of the University of Alberta is expected to boost the value of rental properties, says the head of the Real Estate Investment Network.

    On Friday, Campbell will lead a nine-bus tour of 495 members of his Real Estate Investors Network to locations in Edmonton, Sherwood Park, Fort Saskatchewan and the "industrial heartland" area - with lunch at Josephburg.

    About half of the participants are coming from beyond Alberta including a few from outside Canada, Campbell said.

    This will be his 12th annual tour of the Edmonton, Calgary or Red Deer area.

    "Our goal is to show investors, who want to develop or buy properties, some of the regions with the best potential for strong equity appreciation," he said.

    "We will focus mostly on transportation changes, and show where the jobs are."

    Campbell said his advice is based on the work of eight researchers. He does not sell real estate.

    "Most of our members are average mom-and-pop investors, for whom we take the hype out of the market," he said.

    Campbell also is holding a day-long real-estate investing conference Saturday, for which 650 delegates have registered.

    Campbell said he advises revenue-property investors not to raise rents quickly.

    "The relationship with tenants is the most important part of investing," he said. "If you have quality tenants paying decent rent for decent property, there is no need for $500 rent increases."

    Campbell said some participants in his tour and conference will be property developers who may build new rental properties - helping to ease the pressure on rents.

    At a similar conference last week in Calgary, where Real Estate Investment Network is based, delegates gave $30,000 to the Edmonton chapter of Habitat for Humanity, Campbell said. He hopes for similar contributions this Saturday.

    Campbell is author of two best-selling books, Real Estate Investing in Canada and 97 Tips for Canadian Real Estate Investors, with more than 55,000 combined copies in print. He donates their royalties to Habitat for Humanity.

    [email protected]

    --30--

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    Default Re: LRT to boost property value: investor

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    The LRT extension south of the University of Alberta is expected to boost the value of rental properties, says the head of the Real Estate Investment Network.
    I would expect that the same holds true for single detatched homes and other properties.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement
    This is simply inaccurate. For instance.

    Scott Road P & R 1532 spaces

    South Surrey P & R 425

    King George 163

    Burnaby Production Way 220

    http://www.translink.bc.ca/Commuting_Options/park_ride/
    Whoops, apologies... I must've missed that page. Never trust the old ladies that run the Translink booths then :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD
    I'm with Dan, cost estimates are coming in veery high and the City can't just open up the wallet and spend in a haphazard manner. Will the parkade or some type of park n' ride be constructed, yes.
    Its not a for sure that anything is going to be built.
    Cost escalations are big and its extremely difficult to hold them in check these days with a lack of bidders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD
    I'm with Dan, cost estimates are coming in veery high and the City can't just open up the wallet and spend in a haphazard manner. Will the parkade or some type of park n' ride be constructed, yes.
    Its not a for sure that anything is going to be built.
    Cost escalations are big and its extremely difficult to hold them in check these days with a lack of bidders.
    I should have restated, I meant to put 'imo' at the end.

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    Default Re: LRT to boost property value: investor

    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat
    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    The LRT extension south of the University of Alberta is expected to boost the value of rental properties, says the head of the Real Estate Investment Network.
    I would expect that the same holds true for single detatched homes and other properties.
    Yes, you are right. The increases will not be isolated to one or two types of residential properties.

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    This was originally submitted as a letter to the Journal. Either it will show up later than usual, or a letter every month is getting to be too much for them. Regardless:

    -----

    While the lack of south-side park and ride lots will upset many, it is important to consider who would benefit. Captive transit riders (those without cars) can only benefit from increased frequency on other transit network links, an unlikely occurrence as choice riders (those with cars available) would be induced to drive to a station rather than take a feeder bus. A park and ride lot at either Southgate or Century Park would be a $50 million subsidy for driving, despite the money being widely regarded as funding for transit.

    While the suggestion of a 5,000 stall lot in the Transportation and Utility Corridor (TUC) north of Anthony Henday Drive by Coun. Bryan Anderson is a similar subsidy, this subsidy no longer benefits from the support of the Edmonton taxpayer. This plan targets Leduc, Beaumont, Devon, and Sherwood Park and will be rightfully recognized as money leaving the city to benefit intercity commuters. Unfortunately, locating park and ride lots at terminal stations to serve outlying, captive drivers (those currently without transit service) is exactly the right idea and may even go some way to improve regional cooperation.

    Imagine instead if the park and ride lots were provided and funded by the outlying communities themselves, eliminating the redundant ten or more kilometre trips by car. Five thousand riders divided between four non-stop routes along freeways and highways to four different communities' park and ride lots would fill 30 buses per commute per route.

    This is service that would put most city routes to shame, and could be quite profitable. Simple transit pre-emption along these routes would provide time competitiveness with cars at a level Bus Rapid Transit would not be able to match and at a fraction of the cost. In order to avoid deadheading, buses running opposite to the peak park and ride direction should be routed to provide service to the Edmonton International Airport and underserved industrial areas such as Nisku.

    Express buses to the airport and Nisku would benefit Edmonton transit riders in a way that giant, expensive - and paradoxically free - parking lots cannot hope to accomplish. Free parking at a transit oriented development (TOD) such as Century Park also runs contrary to the entire purpose of a TOD.

    Fifty million dollars is better spent on service improvements and realigning the tangle of poor bus service in south Edmonton to feed the LRT than on white elephants paid for by transit riders to discourage riding transit.

    Brian Gould, Transit Riders' Union of Edmonton

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    I don't know numbers, but I would question the strategy that bagould lays out. The LRT (and Edmonton Transit generally) needs to attract more riders and more rides. There are a number of levers to do this, all of which have benefits and costs. The one lever that seems critical here is the decision of whether to target more rides from the same people (gould's captive market, plus those who've already made some conscious choice to take transit), or whether to go after more people. I'd argue that offering P&R as a service is attracting more people to ride. Surely bagould can't be against that?

    I think the question of whether P&R is a subsidy or not is in the eye of the beholder. By the same token, you could say that continuing to run buses with low ridership (somthing bagould's group supports, I'd imagine) is also a subsidy. Operating the system without recouping the entire cost is a subsidy. I think the answer is, as others have suggested, to charge a small amount for P&R as a cost recovery mechanism. This has been successfully implemented in Vancouver, Chicago, and Toronto. You could charge an additional optional cost for a bus pass, and then drivers can get a tax writeoff for choosing P&R! Keep parking free in the off-hours. Then you have a choice: either take a feeder bus from your home to the station, or pay a little extra and park at the station. Choice means more customers, more revenue, better service, fewer cars. Where is the downside?

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    I'm not against park and ride per se. I would even be in favour of as much park and ride at every station as can be covered by parking fees. I am very much in favour of charging for park and ride; however, I'm not sure about the numbers. With a cost of $40,000 a stall to break even you would have to charge about $6 a day or about the same monthly price as downtown (unfortunately I don't have a copy of Donald Shoup's The High Cost of Free Parking in front of me right now, I can check that estimate later).

    The thing is, most drivers know that they can find cheaper parking where they're going. That's one of the problems with this city. Parking downtown is very reasonable if not free outside business hours, so park and ride lots here probably only see significant activity during business hours (can anyone confirm or counter this for me?). Adding these factors up, park and ride targets people commuting from the suburbs to downtown jobs, and I think the city is on the same page with me that these people wouldn't pay the same price as downtown parking (which is why the sometimes overflowing north lots are always free).

    So, if we can't charge what it costs to build the lot, that's a subsidy for rich people to get downtown faster by driving half the trip. I agree that transit is subsidized heavily (so is driving in general, especially parking), but this isn't transit. Spend the money on transit. Spend the money on reasonably priced park and ride, just don't give away $50 million dollars and then tell captive transit riders that we need to reduce the tax levy by increasing fares to cover it (case in point the impending monthly pass increases).

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    ^last time i checked parking is $120-250/month for covered heated and $80-120 for nonheated non covered.
    www.decl.org

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    The numbers I was trying to quote from memory and appear to have lowballed run as follows (Donald Shoup's The High Cost of Free Parking page 191):

    $22,500 per space capital cost amortized at 4 per cent per year over 40 years: $94 per month
    Operating costs: $33 per month (UCLA Parking Service Average)

    So, for $40,000 a stall the capital almost doubles to $167, which is a nice round $200 a month with operating. The 40 year period is quite conservative as well.

    Compare to IanO's $120 to $250 downtown heated covered range. Add a transit pass ($89 by the time this is built), and suddenly it's much cheaper to drive. Sure, we could subsidize it part way, but if we subsidize it at $120 a month to bring the total to a more reasonable $169 total, that's $30 million dollars instead of $50 million.

    Charging $3 a day like highlander suggests? $45 million dollars in the hole after interest.

    At best we gained 1200 riders a day. Let's say 200 would have taken a nearly empty bus, rides which are free to provide.

    $50 million buys 120 New Flyer D40LFs (The workhorse of the fleet), let's say two peak hour trips, that's four people a bus. Route them to pick up people at their door and run them straight to an LRT station, I don't care.

    Instead of subsidizing $10 a day parking fees, why not give everyone free cab rides to the station? A paratransit/jitney service using normal taxi cabs at a four person occupancy would be more cost effective than park and ride, and may even be faster once you take into account the amount of time it would take to go up six floors of parking and walk back down, a block from the lot to the station, and then a pedway.

    Park and ride is effective when land is cheap. Route the line to put a station next to where a 1,000 stall surface lot can be built. Wait for the area to increase in density and land values, then flip the (6 acre) lot to a developer. At a floor area ratio of 4 (let's say an eight story tower with a 3 acre footprint), that's 1,000 apartments with an average somewhere around 800 sq feet, perfect size and location for affordable housing. Repeat at a new station further down the line.

    People talk about the "vision" of buying up land for another ring road. Where are the transit projects with vision? How can we justify setting aside 12,000 acres for 30 years for the Henday corridor and then after bulldozing a strip of houses realize "oops, we don't have six acres for a park and ride lot."

  49. #249

    Default Park-and-ride money better spent

    Park-and-ride money better spent

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Friday, June 22, 2007


    Re: "City council stalls on spending $40,000 a spot for South LRT parking lot," The Journal, June 15.

    While the lack of south-side park-and-ride lots will upset many, it is important to consider who would benefit.

    Captive transit riders (those without cars) can only benefit from increased frequency on other transit network links -- an unlikely occurrence as choice riders (those with cars available) would be induced to drive to a station rather than take a feeder bus.

    A park-and-ride lot at either Southgate or Century Park would be a $50 regarded as funding for transit.

    While the suggestion of a 5,000-stall lot in the transportation and utility corridor (TUC) north of Anthony Henday Drive by Coun. Bryan Anderson is a similar subsidy, this subsidy no longer benefits from the support of the Edmonton taxpayer. This plan targets Leduc, Beaumont, Devon, and Sherwood Park and will be rightfully recognized as money leaving the city to benefit intercity commuters.

    Unfortunately, locating park-and-ride lots at terminal stations to serve outlying, captive drivers (those currently without transit service) is exactly the right idea and may even go some way to improve regional co-operation.

    Imagine instead if the park-and-ride lots were provided and funded by the outlying communities themselves, eliminating the redundant 10-or-more-kilometre trips by car. Five thousand riders divided between four non-stop routes along freeways and highways to four different communities' park-and-ride lots would fill 30 buses per commute per route.

    This is service that would put most city routes to shame, and could be quite profitable. Simple transit pre-emption along these routes would provide time competitiveness with cars at a level Bus Rapid Transit would not be able to match and at a fraction of the cost. In order to avoid deadheading, buses running opposite to the peak park-and-ride direction should be routed to provide service to the Edmonton International Airport and underserved industrial areas such as Nisku.

    Express buses to the airport and Nisku would benefit Edmonton transit riders in a way that giant, expensive -- and paradoxically free -- parking lots cannot hope to accomplish. Free parking at a transit-oriented development (TOD) such as Century Park also runs contrary to the entire purpose of a TOD.

    Fifty million dollars are better spent on service improvements and realigning the tangle of poor bus service in south Edmonton to feed the LRT than on white elephants paid for by transit riders to discourage riding transit.

    Brian Gould, Transit Riders' Union of Edmonton

    The Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--

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    Default Re: Park-and-ride money better spent

    Quote Originally Posted by djgirl
    Park-and-ride money better spent

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Friday, June 22, 2007


    ...A park-and-ride lot at either Southgate or Century Park would be a $50 regarded as funding for transit...
    Should read "A park and ride lot at either Southgate or Century Park would be a $50 million subsidy for driving, despite the money being widely regarded as funding for transit."

    I don't remember reading that in the print version; I'm really hoping it's just an online glitch, considering it changes the whole meaning of the sentence.

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    Default South LRT construction photos


    Looking North towards Health Sciences Station

    Looking South from Health Sciences Station

    Looking North across from Red Cross Blood Donor Clinic

    Looking North, 85th Avenue


    Looking South, 82 Avenue


    McKernan School Station

    McKernan School Pedestrian Underpass

    Looking South toward Belgravia Road underpass

    Belgravia Road Underpass looking South
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    nice pics

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    where will the LRT re-surface?

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    On the South side of Belgravia, behind Crawford Center.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Does anyone know if there will be a similar underpass at 34th Avenue?
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat
    Does anyone know if there will be a similar underpass at 34th Avenue?
    No.

    There only other grade separation is at 111st and 61 ave.

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    very good pics. If I have a chance I will try to post the pics I took of the south campus station and a few other pics.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    ill wait for a while, but that mckernan school station doesnt look to pretty.....


    great photos.


    i do have to say, it is taking a long long time to do this IMO.

    RAV is cut and covering from downtown to YVR along with cast in place above grade and started not so much before.....and will be done almost a yr in advance.
    www.decl.org

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  59. #259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    ill wait for a while, but that mckernan school station doesnt look to pretty.....


    great photos.


    i do have to say, it is taking a long long time to do this IMO.

    RAV is cut and covering from downtown to YVR along with cast in place above grade and started not so much before.....and will be done almost a yr in advance.

    cost++

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    they were working along 111st quite a bit this morning...digging up things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    ill wait for a while, but that mckernan school station doesnt look to pretty.....
    If it ends up looking like this, it should be ok...but if the deviate from this, we could be in trouble! (I do like the glassed in one, but what is the deal with the concrete bunker to the right...?)



    Source: http://www.edmontonslrt.com/PDFs/2006FebNewsletter.pdf

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    That concrete building is probably a janitorial &/or utility room.
    At Health Sciences, the janitorial, boiler and washrooms are
    all under the platform, but that's not a good idea at
    76 Ave, probably because of costs and because it's more of
    a community station.

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    Since it will be the end of the line for a while it probably has washroom facilities for the LRT operator as well.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat
    Since it will be the end of the line for a while it probably has washroom facilities for the LRT operator as well.
    Isn't that South Campus (hopefully for one year only) or do you know something I don't?

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    I only assumed that when the line has been completed to 76th Ave it would open, even though work would continue southward.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    ^They're both phased to finish at about the same time, just like AHD went to Terwillegar, then Hwy 2, then (50st?), etc. Hopefully.

    Judging by the pictures and my last couple trips to the area, the rebar for the sleepers is in place at the Belgravia grade separation and nothing more than subgrade (if that) is done north of 76th Ave. Makes it kinda hard to open just to 76th Ave, but that's the way it was planned (the whole thing should go faster that way).

    Besides, ETS hates to put actual effort into scheduling, they'd rather just keep running the same inefficient routes and overlay more on top of them, then cut them all back.

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    the left turn onto 114st from university ave is SO BRUTAL........they need a much longer flasher. Literally sat there for 15min in non rush hour traffic. This had nothing to do with construction, all to do with a poorly timed signal.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    the left turn onto 114st from university ave is SO BRUTAL........they need a much longer flasher. Literally sat there for 15min in non rush hour traffic. This had nothing to do with construction, all to do with a poorly timed signal.
    Boo hoo, the intersection is getting shifted to the north right away so underground work can be completed across the intersection
    76 ave is not the terminus. South campus will be. Both stations will go into fare service at the same time. The rough-in portion from University to Belgravia, minus the station was due for completion June 30 originally. Obviously that won't happen.
    Expect a lot of work to start south of 61 ave to begin soon, but remember total project completion to south campus won't be for over a year and to Century Park 2010.
    There is a long way yet to go.

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    For some reason, I love the look of the underpass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    the left turn onto 114st from university ave is SO BRUTAL........they need a much longer flasher. Literally sat there for 15min in non rush hour traffic. This had nothing to do with construction, all to do with a poorly timed signal.
    As a commuter who usually travels straight down 114st I see your fustrations. But if i'm heading south down 114st from the university I typically spend 10-15 minutes trying to reach university ave...Construction has had a minimal impact on that lenght of time. If you allow a longer left turn light, 114st in the vicinity of the intersection fills up to quick further slowing south bound traffic. What you gain turning left you loose going straight. As it is now, I'd assume it's timed to treat the two directions reletively equal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    ...i do have to say, it is taking a long long time to do this IMO.

    RAV is cut and covering from downtown to YVR along with cast in place above grade and started not so much before.....and will be done almost a yr in advance.
    IanO,

    That may have something to do with who is doing it, why they are doing it, how they are doing it and how much they are spending to do it:

    "The Canada Line (known in earlier planning stages as the Richmond-Airport-Vancouver (RAV) Line) is scheduled for completion in November 2009, in time for the 2010 Winter Olympics. It will be built by InTransitBC, a consortium headed by SNC-Lavalin on a $1.9 billion contract. It will design, finance, build, operate, and maintain the line in a Public Private Partnership Project (P3)."

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    A P3 to build an LRT to all corners of the city (and all the interchanges we need) makes sense to me, considering how quickly the SE Henday is moving along. Unfortunately I have a feeling that this concept is anathema with Redmonton's lefty decision-makers.

  73. #273
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    a p3 requires money. edmonton has none (not as much as the province). and I am not convinced that P3's save money. now, is spending less money a leftist, redmonton ideal? I like the sound of that--sign me up!

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    i noticed site prep for the whitemud bridge as well yesterday.
    www.decl.org

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  75. #275

    Default Park and ride

    Park and ride

    The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Thursday, June 28, 2007


    Re: "Train to nowhere; What good is park-and-ride without the parking?" by James Elford, ed, June 23.

    James Elford has missed the train on this one. While it does seem embarrassing for the city to announce park-and-ride lots and then later announce that funding doesn't exist for them, Southgate and Century Park are not the right locations.

    If a high-quality transit system is supposed to give people a convenient and viable alternative to driving, then park-and-ride doesn't fit the program, as it expects people to drive to transit. Southgate and Century Park are built-up areas. Granted, they are suburban areas, but how much of this city isn't suburban?

    Where park-and-ride makes the most sense is at end-of-the-line stops, so that people who are beyond the reach of good transit service can still access it by car. Ideally, park-and-ride lots should be designed so they can be given over to transit-oriented development as the surrounding neighbourhoods build out and walking, cycling or taking the bus to the station becomes more likely.

    While Century Park is, for now, an end-of-the-line stop, a better location for a park-and-ride lot would be in the new, low-density suburbs to the south, and not at the relatively high-density, walkable node that will be Century Park.

    Elford seems to suggest that the low-density suburbs don't deserve good transit service until they get their act together and squeeze some more people in! Well, it doesn't happen all at once, and in the meantime, since they have to drive anyway, it might be nice if Heritage Valley residents (or maybe even people from Leduc) could at least have an LRT stop to drive to.

    Tom Young, Edmonton
    The Edmonton Journal 2007

    --30--

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    Default Re: Park and ride

    ^Amen, brother.

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    I do recall when I was visiting New York/New Jersey a few years ago. One area I remembered was in New Jersey where there was a nice looking multi-level parkade. This was at the end of the line of the train system going into New York. That park and ride required a fee to park. I didn't have a problem because of how much less driving I had to do and how much cheeper it was to pay for parking and hoping on the train. I don't see why they can't build a smaller parkade at Century Park but I'd be in favor of a Parkade somewhere off of AHD. There would be one condition I would want to suggest. At this park and ride location there should be not only a LRT station but how about a shuttle station to go to the airport. Until LRT can go all the way to the airport there can be shuttle busses that go to YEG. This would be a good location for a shuttle because the busses could access AHD and Calgary Trail very quickly and not have to deal with lots of city lights. Also it would give an option for people who don't want to drive all the way out to the airport and park there.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    I haven't seen the site prep yet, I'll have to stop by there sometime soon.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Here are a few pictures I've taken of the SLRT construction.

    Looking north at the Belgravia Road underpass


    Looking north at the Belgravia Road underpass


    Looking north at the Belgravia Road underpass


    Looking south at the future location for the tracks going to South Campus station.


    Looking north at the future south campus station


    Looking north at the future south campus station


    Looking north at Belgravia Tunnel(July 1)


    Looking north at future south campus station(July 1)


    Looking east at the future bus terminal building at south campus station(July 1)
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  80. #280

    Default Residents seek fence around south LRT

    Residents seek fence around south LRT

    Susan Ruttan, edmontonjournal.com
    Published: July 16, 2007 3:21 pm


    Residents living along the south LRT line are hoping for victory this week in their fight for a high fence to shield them from the line, which is due to open in 2010.

    Despite opposition from Edmonton police, city council's transportation and public works committee has endorsed the idea of an eight-foot-high wooden fence running on the west side of 111th Street from Whitemud Drive north to 57th Avenue.

    Residents of Malmo and Lendrum hope council will approve the fence, at a cost of $225,000, at the council meeting tomorrow.

    Community spokesman Alex Kahn said residents want the privacy of a fence, which would protect them from the traffic around the Southgate transit centre and from walkers and cyclists using a multi-use trail on the west side of 111th Street.

    "There was overwhelming support from residents on that border to try to retain some privacy," Kahn said.

    Construction of a light-rail transit stop in the median of 111th Street at Southgate Centre will push the street closer to Malmo houses, in some places 13 metres closer, he said.

    Edmonton police oppose the high fence because it will create an alley behind it with fences on both sides,

    "If the fence was constructed, people in the alley would be unseen by the residents along the alley, users of 111th Street, and riders on the LRT," a police report said. "This would increase the potential for vandalism and crime to occur in the alley."

    Kahn said Malmo residents already live with a high fence along Whitemud Drive on the southern edge of the neighbourhood and aren't too worried about problems with a second fence.

    [email protected]

    -30-

  81. #281
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    Protection from walkers and cyclists?

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    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Protection from walkers and cyclists?
    Probably just percieved loss of privacy, but on the other hand I've heard of neighbourhoods fighting adding sidewalks because "criminals will use them."

  83. #283
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    this 8 foot high wall seems like a complete waste of money.

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    An 8-foot high fence? Made of what, brick?
    Reminds me of a nursery rhyme
    What's wrong with a 4 or 5-foot high chain link fence?
    Then cyclists and pedestrians won't be taking shortcuts
    through their yards, and the neighbourhood can still be seen.
    Or let them build their own fence

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    Quote Originally Posted by microbus
    What's wrong with a 4 or 5-foot high chain link fence?
    Other than that it's made of chain link? Not much.

    Could someone please develop a low cost fencing material with some actual aesthetic value? It really shouldn't be that hard.

  86. #286
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    it already exists. The material is called a "hedge or a hedgerow". It is organic, aesthetically pleasing, cannot be sprayed with grafiti, and requires a bit of a trimming once in a while.

    other option includes material called "trees"

  87. #287
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    ^amen...let's not recreate 1980 berlin...
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by grish
    other option includes material called "trees"
    Trrreeeeeees?? What are these trees you speak of???
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    you must be from Calgary... :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by bagould
    Other than that it's made of chain link? Not much.

    Could someone please develop a low cost fencing material with some actual aesthetic value? It really shouldn't be that hard.
    I agree that chain link isn't the best, but I'd rather see a chain
    link fence from my backyard deck rather than some ugly brick
    wall.
    Or that noise wall crap, that looks like an overkill of cheap siding.
    As stated before, in another thread in here a few months ago,
    we live in a big city. If you want to be in a place with no noise
    or people wandering by, move to northern Alaska. Oh wait, then
    you'd be upset at the polar bears

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    Those are REALLY impressive pictures, It'll be amazing to see the final project once its finally done. One thing we could add though is to have all the trains painted in the blue/silver ETS scheme for the final opening. The 70s paint job is kinda outdated now. Interiors could use a little work too, match Calgary and their blue interior....

    brown and orange is out. blue is in.

  92. #292

    Default

    I still don't believe there will be no park'n'ride and any of south campus, southgate, or century park.

  93. #293

    Default Fence approved

    Susan Ruttan, The Edmonton Journal
    Published: July 18, 2007 2:35 am


    In other business, council:

    - Approved construction of an almost three-metre-high wooden fence along 111th Street between Whitemud Drive and 57th Avenue, to shield nearby residents from an LRT station being built at Southgate Mall.


    [email protected]

    The Edmonton Journal 2007

    -30-

  94. #294

    Default Many thanks for the photos

    This is my first post so excuse me if I do something wrong...

    Why is it that I am able to get more information about the SLRT from Connect2edmonton than from the SLRT website? Are we not paying Stantec to keep us up to date? A quick look at the Calgary SLRT website or the Canada Line website in Vancouver, and ours compares very unfavourably. Most of the SLRT website is still concerning itself with work that was finished 3 years ago. The last newsletter was out in Feb 2006. All we get are reasonably vague construction updates.

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    Default Re: Many thanks for the photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Jammy
    This is my first post so excuse me if I do something wrong...

    Why is it that I am able to get more information about the SLRT from Connect2edmonton than from the SLRT website? Are we not paying Stantec to keep us up to date? A quick look at the Calgary SLRT website or the Canada Line website in Vancouver, and ours compares very unfavourably. Most of the SLRT website is still concerning itself with work that was finished 3 years ago. The last newsletter was out in Feb 2006. All we get are reasonably vague construction updates.
    Because this is Edmonton?

    I was just down in Calgary and there is a mayoral candidate (Go Alnoor!) whose entire campaign seems to be the west C-Train extension and who has all the stations plastered with his ads. Think that would ever happen in Edmonton either?

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    Wow, Jammy - it took a while for you to make your first post!

    I guess members of this forum share information because we like to as opposed to the authorities who share because they have to.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Good photos, Edmcowboy!
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    ^Thanks

    I'll have some new pics up soon too, I had a look the other day how things are coming along.

    Construction looks pretty good so far and I hope they will be finished the Belgravia pedway soon, it looks like that should happen pretty soon.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Here's a picture of the construction just today, from a near-by building.

    http://www.box.net/shared/u546vm27pv

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willamena
    Here's a picture of the construction just today, from a near-by building.

    http://www.box.net/shared/u546vm27pv
    Hello AI how are you?

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