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Thread: Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

  1. #3601
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyYeg View Post
    At the end it's about $$$. I have finally come to accept that our international market is much thinner from a yield perspective than I thought.
    Agree with you that this is the root cause. If the dollars aren't there, no amount of lobbying will improve our situation, other than a short-lived blip perhaps.

  2. #3602

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    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Didn't take layers of people, organizations and businesses. It just took one premier with a vision to create a national head office centre. A premier who felt that there could only be one such centre in Alberta and picked his home town.
    Back in 1905, Edmonton was chosen to the capital because there was a Liberal government in Ottawa and Calgary had voted for the Conservatives while Edmonton had elected Liberals, Frank Oliver and Peter Talbot.

    Should we give up being the capital because the decision was a political one?

    Edmonton had the seat of government. We also had the University (1908 ). When the U of C opened (1944), it was actually part of the U of A until 1966.

    All this whining about how Calgary got this or Calgary got that gets really tiresome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post

    Back in 1905, Edmonton was chosen to the capital because there was a Liberal government in Ottawa and Calgary had voted for the Conservatives while Edmonton had elected Liberals, Frank Oliver and Peter Talbot.
    I think that doesn't really capture all the factors in the decision.

  4. #3604

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Didn't take layers of people, organizations and businesses. It just took one premier with a vision to create a national head office centre. A premier who felt that there could only be one such centre in Alberta and picked his home town.
    Back in 1905, Edmonton was chosen to the capital because there was a Liberal government in Ottawa and Calgary had voted for the Conservatives while Edmonton had elected Liberals, Frank Oliver and Peter Talbot.

    Should we give up being the capital because the decision was a political one?

    Edmonton had the seat of government. We also had the University (1908 ). When the U of C opened (1944), it was actually part of the U of A until 1966.

    All this whining about how Calgary got this or Calgary got that gets really tiresome.
    The folklore about why Edmonton was chosen as the capital generally comes from Calgary and I am sure a lot of people from Edmonton find it tiresome too, but just because it is tiresome doesn't mean I expect people in Calgary will stop spreading this cow manure or whining about it.

    I think Lougheed was actually fairly upfront about promoting Calgary as a business centre, which it wasn't much of before he became Premier. Now, he was actually better to Edmonton than the Klein the Mayor of Calgary who later became the Premier of Calgary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SP59 View Post
    Didn't take layers of people, organizations and businesses. It just took one premier with a vision to create a national head office centre. A premier who felt that there could only be one such centre in Alberta and picked his home town.
    Back in 1905, Edmonton was chosen to the capital because there was a Liberal government in Ottawa and Calgary had voted for the Conservatives while Edmonton had elected Liberals, Frank Oliver and Peter Talbot.

    Should we give up being the capital because the decision was a political one?

    Edmonton had the seat of government. We also had the University (1908 ). When the U of C opened (1944), it was actually part of the U of A until 1966.

    All this whining about how Calgary got this or Calgary got that gets really tiresome.

    Just stating reality. Not whining at all.

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    I just had a similar experience while booking my trip to Dubai last week. I ended up choosing yeg to Amsterdam then to Dubai. There were cheaper and shorter options via Calgary but I am also on a crusade to avoid yyc. So I choose to pay a little more to support this flight. My only other real option was to go through Seattle via Emirates (which is a superb airline) but then again I would never recommend landing in the US if you’re coming from the Middle East, you’re just asking for trouble.

    My impression of KLM was good overall and Amsterdam is a great place that is super efficient and it’s easy to get from Schipol to the centre of the city and the special cafes made the layover the best ever. I was very happy to find the plane basically full both ways and I was happy to pay a little more.

    At the end of the day, we all know that money talks and I feel better supporting yeg than I ever would supporting yyc. Also, the fact that I didn’t give any money to wj or ac on this particular trip, made me happy as well. The only thing we can do to get more direct flights is to support the ones that we have. It’s that simple, think of it as a vote. If you fly out of yyc you’re voting for yyc instead of yeg, that simple.

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    We are in Florida at the moment for spring break. We flew out yesterday on WestJet’s direct to Orlando. The flight was full, maybe 2 empty seats. The flight crew says the flight is usually like this. That is good!

    What sucks is the flight is only once per week. I overheard so many people onboard stating they are flying home via Calgary. Calgary has 4x week service. We are coming back March 31 on the direct flight but not everyone has that kind of time.

    I would think Edmonton could at least support a 2x a week service.

    Edit: Winnipeg, Ottawa, Halifax get 3. Come on WestJet!!!
    Last edited by metro; 18-03-2018 at 01:18 PM.

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    You would think when the yield support it...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Looks like Swoop is already increasing its frequency on YEG-YHM from 7 weekly to 13 weekly, starting August 14, 2018 (along with other frequency increases from YHM).

    https://www.flyswoop.com/news/swoop-...-aircraft.html

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...m-august-2018/

    Abbotsford – Edmonton eff 25JUL18 3 daily
    Hamilton – Abbotsfordeff 20JUN18 6 weekly, 12 weekly from 16AUG18 to 05SEP18
    Hamilton – Edmonton eff 25JUN18 7 weekly, 13 weekly from 14AUG18
    Hamilton – Halifax eff 20JUN18 6 weekly, 7 weekly from 16AUG18
    Hamilton – Winnipeg eff 25JUN18 6 weekly, 7 weekly from 16AUG18

  10. #3610

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    They just trying to shut Flare down. There's not that much traffic there for that. They should have done Halifax/Edm daily for easterners for the trades.Typical bullies.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They just trying to shut Flare down. There's not that much traffic there for that. They should have done Halifax/Edm daily for easterners for the trades.Typical bullies.
    The BS AC tried on WJ with Zip, Tango and Jazz...
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

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    Jeez, anyone would think these airlines had their customers' interests in mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They just trying to shut Flare down. There's not that much traffic there for that. They should have done Halifax/Edm daily for easterners for the trades.Typical bullies.
    That flight already exists on WestJet.

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    Daily? Then Quebec city as there are lots if scaffolder in New Brunswick. If they truly were setting up a low cost why compete with others? Logic tells me these guys are up to no good.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  15. #3615

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    They have them in mind. Funnel them to their hubs; and set up new cheap airlines to compete with a new start ups. If they achieve at drowning them out, their new set up is shut down. You should know the game by now.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Daily? Then Quebec city as there are lots if scaffolder in New Brunswick. If they truly were setting up a low cost why compete with others? Logic tells me these guys are up to no good.
    Yes and twice on Saturdays.

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    Thank you for that! I'll let people know up north when I'm there.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    You do that "tips" the scaffolder.....you go ahead and let all your New Brunswick scaffolding buddies that there's a? Wait, what are you letting them know again? Btw, can't be too many of those scaffolding buddies left at Fort Hills....sadly most of them will be back home on Pogie soon......

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Jeez, anyone would think these airlines had their customers' interests in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    They have them in mind. Funnel them to their hubs; and set up new cheap airlines to compete with a new start ups. If they achieve at drowning them out, their new set up is shut down. You should know the game by now.
    I take it your reply was to my post? I think you may have missed the sarcasm/tongue in cheek of it.
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  20. #3620

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    What the heck is your problem? I'm doing my part to encourage people to use our airport. Forthills is one of many plants up there. You have an angry tone like your are coming down from a high or drunk venture. What does this have to do with your comment? Stick to the topic. There are many easterners that work year round here; they do want to see their families at some point. Stopping acting like a fool and shame on you!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  21. #3621

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    It may sarcasm to you, but that sarcasm is true though.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    What the heck is your problem? I'm doing my part to encourage people to use our airport. Forthills is one of many plants up there. You have an angry tone like your are coming down from a high or drunk venture. What does this have to do with your comment? Stick to the topic. There are many easterners that work year round here; they do want to see their families at some point. Stopping acting like a fool and shame on you!
    Haha!!!! You missed my point completely.....sarcastic albeit. You made it sound as if you are some sort of Grand Wizard of Ft.McMurray....yeah we all know about Fort Hills....my point....we don't need some scaffolder telling us the obvious. Oh? You're gonna let all your New Brunswick buddies know about the frequency of flight to Hamilton.....thanks Goodness they have you as a resource.....sorry...you made me "go there" with your strange self absorbed complex as the Wizard....lol. Keep it up....what else can you enlighten us with?

  23. #3623

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    I'm no grand wizard, but I do care for my city; so I do my part, where I can, to promote it. Is there anything wrong with that? Your attitude does the opposite. I want more direct flights, and the way to do so is to get people coming through here. Many of them have to go to Calgary, and, when you are 3K+ km away, that small hour is harder for them as some have to do another transfer from Halifax to get to their destination. For some, it is almost two days just to get home and see their love ones. When you have a week off, that is not much time for rest, down time, or family. Either help our our city or shut up!
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 24-03-2018 at 08:23 PM.
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    "that small hour"????

    Its NEVER an hour .... at best add 3 hours especially if out of country as it will involve customs art YYC, at worse your flight is cancelled or delayed and your stuck in YYC. Non-stop is the only way to go.

  25. #3625

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    Your right as i was vage. That hour was refering to the extra 1/2 hour of flight time; then there is descending and so forth... The waiting for flights in Calgary and another wait at Halifax. I'm not exaggerating when I said almost two days of travel just for some to get home for 3 days of family, rest and decompress. The same process is repeat for the trip back to work. This is like third world travel.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Your right as i was vage. That hour was refering to the extra 1/2 hour of flight time; then there is descending and so forth... The waiting for flights in Calgary and another wait at Halifax. I'm not exaggerating when I said almost two days of travel just for some to get home for 3 days of family, rest and decompress. The same process is repeat for the trip back to work. This is like third world travel.
    Geez man!!! There your u go again.....just drop this "feeling sorry for Easteners who CHOOSE to work ouu West and fly back and forth. No one is holding a gun to their heads.....frankly....don't even need them...... Have enough workers not working. Scaffolding is not exactly a "highly prized trade" .....dime a dozen.....just above Insulators

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    All,

    Please watch your tone on this thread. Also, can we keep the discussion on the topic of Air Service Development? While the types of trades wanted or needed can be relevant, this is spiralling downward fast.
    Ow

  28. #3628

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    Throwing out scenario could inspire new start up airline to give us more bodies through our airport. This would be like when we were discussing Porters potential move to the West. I expounded that if they do that, their strategy has to have different base than A.C. OR WS. Whether it was our discussion that gave FLARE airline that inspiration, but we have to dialogue without hatred. East or west, i care for good honest people. There are lots of lazy westerners just like the east. The same with hard workers.

    As per you looking on Scaffolder, it is the most secured job in the trade; year round employment; lastly, without scaffolders, most things could not be done to build the Oilsands. Have great a night, but dont interact with me further until your attitude is adjusted as i can't stand ignorance.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Losing a direct flight to Asia is a negative thing for Alberta, even if to YYC. That said, their 767 was the oldest in the fleet and awful to use.
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    I believe this opens up more opportunities from YEG. Too bad China carriers are already at their max bilateral into Canada. We will need to wait for WestJet or AC to service YEG to Asia.

    Potential (realistic) Asia routes for Edmonton would be NRT, HKG, ICN. And PEK or PVG (if slot situation improves). I don't see secondary China working from YEG at all at this point, and MNL could work but would likely be low yielding.

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    HKG or PVG please and thank you
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    There was talk a few years ago of an Asia - YYC - YEG three way route. I am sure both cities could provide enough yield for a 789

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    I believe this opens up more opportunities from YEG.
    I see it as the opposite actually. If YYC can't make a route to Asia work, with all their connections and tourist traffic, I don't see how Edmonton could.

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    I think Edmonton seems to do well with the cargo flights. But getting international flights is another challenge. My guess is that if WestJet ever secures Asian destinations, Calgary would be a prime hub.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    ^do we? Or cargo vis a vis comparable such as Calgary, Winnipeg, etc. is quite low.
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  37. #3637

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton seems to do well with the cargo flights. But getting international flights is another challenge. My guess is that if WestJet ever secures Asian destinations, Calgary would be a prime hub.
    Not sure about cargo: Air China Cargo cancelled their Edmonton to Shanghai flights.

    Agree about WestJet but the first thing they're going to do with 787s is replace their current 767 flights so Asia is several years away at least.

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    ^ They may use their 767s for their budget Airline Swoop much like AC does for Rouge. The 787s will be for more lucrative routes like Asia. And of course if we ever get a chance at an Asian route WestJet is the closest possibility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think Edmonton seems to do well with the cargo flights. But getting international flights is another challenge. My guess is that if WestJet ever secures Asian destinations, Calgary would be a prime hub.
    Not sure about cargo: Air China Cargo cancelled their Edmonton to Shanghai flights.

    Agree about WestJet but the first thing they're going to do with 787s is replace their current 767 flights so Asia is several years away at least.

    I too am hearing of the suspension of the Air China Cargo flights. This is not good. The old adage: "use it or lose it" comes to mind.
    Come on folks! don't we have stuff to sell in Shanghai? Or stuff to import from there?


    As for WestJet and their 787, they will require a change to the air service agreements, state to state treaties, in order to allow WestJet in to Asia. Will Ottawa oblige and help move to make it happen? Or will Ottawa be paternalistic and protect Air Canada? Best start writing the MPs and Ministers to make it happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    As for WestJet and their 787, they will require a change to the air service agreements, state to state treaties, in order to allow WestJet in to Asia. Will Ottawa oblige and help move to make it happen? Or will Ottawa be paternalistic and protect Air Canada? Best start writing the MPs and Ministers to make it happen.
    Well...both the new Level Airline out of Europe and Norwegian are on their way to Canada so says Canadian Transportation Agency following approval. Reading some of the background articles on Level and Norwegian they are definitely positioning themselves into a major push into North America. Whether YEG will be on the radar for flights into Gatwick and or Orly, only time will tell. There is an overlapping of these airlines including share purchases and we could see consolidation.

    https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-72
    https://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2018-68

    An interesting read:
    http://www.anna.aero/2018/04/13/iag-...bid-norwegian/
    http://www.anna.aero/2017/03/22/leve...ino-orly-next/

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    I too am hearing of the suspension of the Air China Cargo flights. This is not good.
    Your sources must be pretty slow. The route ended last year.

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    That they did sadly.
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    Excited about the SFO non-stop starting on AC.
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    “Extra flights to Cancún, Mexico, will be added, departing from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Hamilton, Montreal and Quebec City. Vancouver residents will enjoy daily connections to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, and more flights to the Pacific resort destination will be available to holidayers in and around Edmonton.” ... “The carrier is strongly developing its offer in Western Canada's largest cities (Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton) to Toronto and Montreal, which significantly increases the number of South and Europe destinations available as well as the number of flights departing Western Canada.”

    https://www.newswire.ca/news-release...681363341.html

    http://m.atwonline.com/leasing/aviaa...-s-air-transat

    YEG<>PVR is now 3 weekly flights instead of 2 on days Tue, Wed, Sat starting Nov on the booking window. CUN appears on booking to be twice weekly in Nov increasing to 3 in December onward. Also YEG flights to LGW MAN GLA came up as connections through YYZ and times looked great as did price and on closing Safari and bringing up AT again the screen only brought up LGW. Let’s hope the well timed connecting flights and very competitive fares get fleshed out and are made available.

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    Air Transat in winter 2018/19 season continues to increase Airbus A320/321 operational routes, as the Airbus narrowbody variant being introduced on following markets.

    Airbus A320
    Edmonton – Puerto Vallarta eff 17DEC18 1 of 3 weekly, replacing A330-200
    Toronto – Edmonton eff 05NOV18 2 weekly (2 of 4 weekly from 19DEC18

    https://www.routesonline.com/news/38...routes-in-w18/

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    ^ but is not flights to Varadero and Punta now through YYZ instead of nonstop? This would signify a reduction in service overall.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    ^ but is not flights to Varadero and Punta now through YYZ instead of nonstop? This would signify a reduction in service overall.
    Not a reduction in the number of AT non stop flights but you might be right about an AT reduction to Punta and Veradero, though WS ans SW both fly those routes iirc. That said AT have increased nonstop frequency to the 2 biggest destinations that Edmontonians want. I think it’s a great compromise in improving service without that “YYC tech stop” lol that was really pissing people off. Transat is making better use of their metal and meeting local demand IMO.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 13-05-2018 at 09:29 AM.

  48. #3648

    Default Flair postponing flights to YXE?

    Cannot search any flights to Saskatoon for any dates, starting in mid-June when the route was supposed to launch.

    YXE route still shows on Home page under Our Destinations: https://flairair.ca/
    YXE removed on Route Map: https://flairair.ca/travel-info/flair-air-route-map/

  49. #3649

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taras View Post
    Cannot search any flights to Saskatoon for any dates, starting in mid-June when the route was supposed to launch.

    YXE route still shows on Home page under Our Destinations: https://flairair.ca/
    YXE removed on Route Map: https://flairair.ca/travel-info/flair-air-route-map/
    Perhaps they want to leave their options open to see what happens with a possible WS pilot strike. If the strike happens, it could be a good opportunity for Flair to nibble into WS market share on popular routes.

    Even if WS launches Swoop, I think Swoop will have problems competing with Flair because it will have to fly the same routes as mainline WS.

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    We are in Portland for the long weekend. We flew down on Delta via Seattle, the flight was sold out. Quite a few people who were on the Seattle flight were on our next flight to Portland.

    I wonder if EIA could lobby WS to utilize swoop on a Portland route?

  51. #3651

    Default Flair cancels Prince George service to YEG, YVR, before even starting

    https://ckpgtoday.ca/article/528281/...eorge-schedule

    YXE-YEG service also appears to be cancelled before even starting.

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    That did not surprised me. That is a hick town that can sustain a few fights each week to cities such as Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  54. #3654

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    Or Chicago or New York or Miami or Houston or Paris or Tokyo or.....

    Oh wait, that's Edmonton.

  55. #3655

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    Exactly. As to why Flair decided that city needs interprovincial like that baffled me on the economic front. It was a no brainer the city and area does not have the population for that type of intensity.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Point being we need to funnel as many passengers from as many communities as we can through EIA. Not a great loss as we already have a service to YXS.
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    More unfortunate is the Saskatoon route not starting this month. Hopefully that will commence at some point as they bring more planes online.

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    Another example that ORD should be placed back on EIA schedule . . .

    The 20 busiest international routes in the world:
    20: Chicago to Toronto
    Just over a million passengers flew between these two cities last year. Roughly 60 per cent of the arrivals at each went on to a connecting flight, with San Francisco proving the most popular destination for Chicago arrivals and Edmonton International the most popular for Toronto arrivals.

    https://www.internationalairportrevi...-in-the-world/

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    New York would also be great. I wonder if Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson Airport has any routes in the Top 50.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Another example that ORD should be placed back on EIA schedule . . .

    The 20 busiest international routes in the world:
    20: Chicago to Toronto
    Just over a million passengers flew between these two cities last year. Roughly 60 per cent of the arrivals at each went on to a connecting flight, with San Francisco proving the most popular destination for Chicago arrivals and Edmonton International the most popular for Toronto arrivals.

    https://www.internationalairportrevi...-in-the-world/
    ORD-YEG is one way AA can get in on the Edmonton market. Their seasonal PHX-YEG means that they abandon our city (with no real code-share alternatives in Canada) for half a year.

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    Edmonton’s airport receives low marks in FIFA World Cup evaluation

    "The report – which includes the ability to travel between venues and within each host city – ranked Edmonton’s transportation in a tie with Kansas City for the second-worst of the North American host cities."

    https://globalnews.ca/news/4255932/e...ifa-world-cup/

    Wow. The Edmonton Metropolitan Region needs to step up with a long term major assist to EIA - we need more routes.

  62. #3662

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    ^Largely because the Mayor and City Council are too busy focused on pie-in-the-sky dreams of high-tech moving here from San Francisco because of one flight and massive bike lanes....

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    ^...haha.

    Look at the cities we are being compared to though. Not excuse our lack of certain flights, but generally speaking the comparatives are a league above.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  64. #3664

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^...haha.

    Look at the cities we are being compared to though. Not excuse our lack of certain flights, but generally speaking the comparatives are a league above.
    Lack of flights is more of an indictment on the city than the airport. The key statistic is we have direct flights to only 8 of the 22 proposed cities which are some of the biggest in North America. Airport can only do so much if the city is not positioning itself to sustain flights (LHR, NY).

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^...haha.

    Look at the cities we are being compared to though. Not excuse our lack of certain flights, but generally speaking the comparatives are a league above.
    Read the report. FAIL with air international and North American nonstop routes.The snide comment in the report was a slap in the face and uncalled for. VERY GOOD with the stadium. VERY GOOD with "public" transport to the stadium. Barely OK with the proposed location for the FIFA Fan FestTM (what venue was offered and how the rating was determined it does not say, but it seems unfair - Appendix D7), FAIL with Hotel Accommodations (JW was likely taken into consideration). Edmonton is the smallest City hosting at 1.4M.

    https://resources.fifa.com/image/upl...at3oingsmnlvzf

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^...haha.

    Look at the cities we are being compared to though. Not excuse our lack of certain flights, but generally speaking the comparatives are a league above.
    Read the report. FAIL with air international and North American nonstop routes.The snide comment in the report was a slap in the face and uncalled for. VERY GOOD with the stadium. VERY GOOD with "public" transport to the stadium. Barely OK with the proposed location for the FIFA Fan FestTM (what venue was offered and how the rating was determined it does not say, but it seems unfair - Appendix D7), FAIL with Hotel Accommodations (JW was likely taken into consideration). Edmonton is the smallest City hosting at 1.4M.

    https://resources.fifa.com/image/upl...at3oingsmnlvzf
    Report was a very good wake up call to the folks at Edmonton Global and EEDC

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    Default First Air and Canadian North join forces to better serve Pan-Arctic communities

    Following execution of definitive agreements and the receipt of applicable regulatory approvals needed to establish a strong new entity, the proposed Pan-Arctic airline will operate under the name “Canadian North” and aircraft will feature new First Air livery, including its Inukshuk logo. Headquarters for the proposed airline will be located in Ottawa. Both Makivik and IDC recognize the value and potential in the North and in the Alberta market and remain committed to supporting and growing the Alberta presence. The parties expect to complete the merger by the end of 2018.
    https://www.canadiannorth.com/about/news/0075979-first-air-and-canadian-north-join-forces-better-serve-pan-arctic-communities
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Hearing along with AA’s increase to PHX they are looking at adding service to more western Canadian cities including YEG to ORD. Anyone else hearing this rumour? Hearing that is strongly associated to the loss of partnership with WS that is firmly discontinued as of August 1st as WestJet strengthens their JV with Delta.

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    Personally, I'd do just about anything to avoid O'Hare.

    But - be good for business and, for many, connections.

    New First Air HQ in Ottawa? Maybe not so good. Canadian North has a big league presence at YEG.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by 53latitude View Post
    Hearing along with AA’s increase to PHX they are looking at adding service to more western Canadian cities including YEG to ORD. Anyone else hearing this rumour? Hearing that is strongly associated to the loss of partnership with WS that is firmly discontinued as of August 1st as WestJet strengthens their JV with Delta.
    Would love to see ORD back. Was always a popular route and that would be my "go to" for east coast US and some European destinations.
    Edmonton, Capital of Alberta

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    McBoo said; New First Air HQ in Ottawa? Maybe not so good. Canadian North has a big league presence at YEG.

    Yes, too bad, gain one (Flair) and lose another. There was this though. “Both Makivik and IDC recognize the value and potential in the North and in the Alberta market and remain committed to supporting and growing the Alberta presence”. Whatever that means exactly.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 11-07-2018 at 05:24 PM.

  72. #3672

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    Flying delta to Columbus this aug, so greatful for the USA carriers who supply us with connections that don’t require me to go through Toronto and allow me to clear customs here in Edmonton. Bless!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Skytrax releases their 2018 rankings.

    Air canada wins for best North American airline
    Westjet wins for best North American discount airline.

    No american airlines on any of the lists.
    And there was no award given to north american airlines in the 'Best service staff' category...

    https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/w...018/index.html

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    'cept I'd hardly call WestJet "discount" Not for years.

    Not that I don't like 'em, I do - but discount?
    ... gobsmacked

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    Aeroplan to launch charter airline after Air Canada partnership ends

    Not sure how this will affect Edmonton's air routes. Or if it ever will.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    'cept I'd hardly call WestJet "discount" Not for years.

    Not that I don't like 'em, I do - but discount?
    While their fares are not super cheap on some routes, they are not anywhere near a "full service" airline. Plus seats are just that...economy plus.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  77. #3677
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    Skyscraperpage reporting ORD is looking closer and closer.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    On American Airlines.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    ORD will come back...not worried.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  80. #3680

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    I was very surpis3d at the loss of Chicago, it was always full. That being said anyone but united express will be welcome. I never had a bad experience but I would refer to it as completely lack luster.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  81. #3681

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    Trying to plan trip to New Orleans. It's a joke trying to get anywhere non standard out of YEG. Do we no longer have a direct flight to Houston?

    The baggage area at YEG is a complete disgrace....why is YEG still charging an airport improvement fee when much of the airport has not been touched for 30 years???

  82. #3682

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    Why are they charging a fee? Because they can. They're a business and the prime directive of a business is to extract as much money from their customers as possible. If Calgary dropped their fee and people started driving to YYC instead, they'd drop the fee. But that's not going to happen.

    Want to get to New Orleans without paying the fee? Well, you could drive. But that would cost more that a plane ticket with the fee as well as take much longer.

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    The airport is run as a not for profit corporation. It may or may not be run as efficiently as possible but they do not have to make a profit so there is no incentive to gouge. Also the last expansion that was started about 10 years ago cost about $800,000,000 and I suspect they are still paying that off as well as the previous expansion.
    It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that YYC would drop their airport improvement fee when they have just spent billions on a new runway and an international terminal. Please try and come up with some realistic comments.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  84. #3684

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    I'm not suggesting that YYC will drop the AIF, as I clearly stated as "people started driving to YYC instead, they'd drop the fee. But that's not going to happen."


    ​And the fact that they're non-profit has nothing to do with wanting to maximize revenue. There's still lots of things that they can claim as "improvements" to suck up the funds.

  85. #3685

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    The AIF is charged to pay for past upgrades. I don’t understand all then hand wringing
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    The airport is run as a not for profit corporation. (…)
    It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that YYC would drop their airport improvement fee when they have just spent billions on a new runway and an international terminal. (…)
    These are 2 key points in this recent discussion. Glenco hit the nail on the head...

    Not for profit corporations (remember, these are not CHARITIES, there is a huge difference) cannot utilize revenue streams to pay dividends to shareholders. All profits (they are allowed to make money) are re-invested into the corporation. Charities need some basic social good that lines up to 3 or 4 key elements, and usually are run by volunteers. You can find out more at the CRA website.

    That said, not for profit corporations have few levers to raise capital - especially since they CANNOT pay dividends. However, a not for profit is created to ensure that the entity is wholly driven to support and expand the entity without profiteering getting in the way. That is why airport authorities are set up this way. The entire goal of the entity is ENTIRELY for the entity.

    The AIF is one of the few levers, outside parking revenue, landing fees, and whatever government grants are there, for an airport to raise the necessary operating and capital funds it needs. I seriously doubt many of you here tossing rocks at EIA even have a slight understanding of just how expensive this business is, and just how hard it is to keep things moving in a razor thin margin industry that is in a race to the bottom price wise. Just what I am doing at CZVL (Villeneuve) for infrastructure needs for this Airshow is hugely expensive. Now add hard surfaces good enough to routinely have large aircraft access it, length, passenger handling facilities, incentives for new routes, advertising, rent, NavCanada and Transport Canada fees and regulatory issues, security, utilities including your own power plant, snow clearing and MRO...the list is exhaustive. I think that people forget that EIA/YEG has undergone an exhaustive ground up renovation and expansion, with more projects going on behind the scenes without the fanfare of a new terminal, and as recent as this year, and not a mall....

    So, any thought of Calgary dropping an AIF, especially with the recent expansion, is foolish. No matter how many people drive there, it isn't going away. Accusations of gouging and not doing said improvements...without speaking for them, I know that this is not the case. Again, aviation is absurdly expensive. Passenger demands to have a facility that is not a bus terminal, or treats you like cattle, is absurdly expensive. Your champagne tastes for your terminal amenities, aesthetics, and aura do not come with a beer budget.

    Dad was right...flying cargo rules...boxes don't b*tch...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  87. #3687

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    Rent from commercial tenants including the mall, horse track/casino, golf course, etc.

    And once again, I never said that Calgary WOULD be dropping their AIF. I was speaking hypothetically that IF they did, it would put pressure on YEG to do the same since there are people that would rather drive to Calgary, pay no AIF fee and have a much larger selection of airlines and routes to choose from.

    Summarizing what I said in #3682, they charge the AIF because it's a source of revenue that they know they can charge since many other airports are charging one as well. It's a source of revenue, just like (as RichardS stated, landing fees, parking revenue and the like. If YEG was the only airport doing so, there would be a lot more outrage over it. But, since we're now conditioned that it's just a price we pay for using the airport, people go along with it. Just like high parking fees & prices for food and drink.

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    US airports do something similar. Other jurisdictions have greater government funding. It all comes out of the same pocket eventually.

    Yes, they have diversified to lease out other spots, like other airports do, but there are also nuances about what they can use that revenue for, and why. Again, I won't speak for them, but I will tell you that I was introduced to some of these with how the Airshow integrates with their portfolio. It isn't as straightforward as you think...

    I get how people are frustrated...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I was very surpis3d at the loss of Chicago, it was always full. That being said anyone but united express will be welcome. I never had a bad experience but I would refer to it as completely lack luster.

    1. I wouldn't be too picky on the carrier. Service before self...in a bit of a different way than how that phrase is normally used.
    2. Whether or not it was "full", the questions are:
      1. Full with what? People cashing in points? People paying discounts? Full Fare? Lost of Business Class paid patrons or all upgrades?
      2. Can this iron make more revenue on another route?
      3. Do the slots line up with what's avail in Edmonton vs the destination and subsequent connections?
      4. Regulatory hurdles
      5. Union/staffing hurdles


    etc etc

    So, for example, the AC Hawaii flight was busy, but mainly points people. No revenue = no flight. Better revenue elsewhere, regardless of how "full"
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  90. #3690

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    It was serviced by united express.... I think they only had one class... cramped lol

    very excited to fly delta this summer. They still maintain the 3 classes. I splurged on business class.. or delta plus I think they call it. First class is only a 300 dollar upgrade away.... it’s so tempting.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Delta plus is economy plus. It is NOT business class.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Delta Plus is my 1st choice when flying.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  93. #3693

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    It’s the closest thing to business delta has, as they maintain a first class cabin. Priority boarding, dedicated bin space, increased leg room, premium food and drink plus other small perks.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 24-07-2018 at 01:34 PM.

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    DELTA (SkyTeam) cuts SEA-HKG Oct 4th but CATHAY PACIFIC (OneWorld) commences SEA-HKG April 1st 2019.
    DELTA (SkyTeam) resumes SEA-KIX April 1st 2019.

    DELTA still strong at Seattle and SEA continues to grow. A great connecting airport for Edmonton.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 24-07-2018 at 05:11 PM.

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    "The Canada-Egypt air transport agreement has been expanded to allow designated airlines to operate up to seven passenger flights per week, up from four. In addition, designated airlines now can serve any city in the other country's territory."

    That is a change for Egyptair.

    "The expanded Canada-United Arab Emirates air transport agreement allows each government to allocate 68 per cent more capacity among its designated air carriers (i.e. the number of seats that carriers can sell). This agreement also now contains four dedicated frequencies for all-cargo flights for the first time."

    https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-c...-emirates.html

  96. #3696

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    "The Canada-Egypt air transport agreement has been expanded to allow designated airlines to operate up to seven passenger flights per week, up from four. In addition, designated airlines now can serve any city in the other country's territory."

    That is a change for Egyptair.

    "The expanded Canada-United Arab Emirates air transport agreement allows each government to allocate 68 per cent more capacity among its designated air carriers (i.e. the number of seats that carriers can sell). This agreement also now contains four dedicated frequencies for all-cargo flights for the first time."

    https://www.canada.ca/en/transport-c...-emirates.html
    And as a result both Emirates and Etihad will increase Toronto services from three weekly to five weekly.

    https://gulfnews.com/business/aviati...onto-1.2258907

    Doesn't really change much for Edmonton. Neither Liberal nor Conservative governments seem interested in rapidly opening up the market to UAE. Years from now Emirates might add Montreal and Vancouver when they're allowed. Eventually someone might say something about Emirates to Calgary.

  97. #3697

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    Isn’t part of the concern that these state run carriers offer subsidized prices that we can’t conpete with?!

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    WestJet Group Frequency Changes for Winter 2018/19

    Weekly Flights
    Abbotsford +5 (18/week) Swoop
    Cabo San Lucas +1 (2/week) WestJet
    Calgary -6 (69/week) WestJet/Encore
    Hamilton +7 (11/week) Swoop
    Kelowna +12 (45/week) WestJet/Encore
    Las Vegas -1 (11/week) Swoop
    Los Angeles +1 (7/week) WestJet
    Mesa +1 (2/week) Swoop
    Orlando +1 (2/week) WestJet
    Ottawa -6 (0/week)* WestJet
    Phoenix +2 (11/week) WestJet
    Toronto +1 (41/week) WestJet
    Vancouver -4 (54/week) WestJet/Encore

    *This route was always summer seasonal, last year they tried running it through the winter, obviously it didn't work. Returns in the spring.

    WestJet/Encore/Swoop will operate 59 daily flights this winter from YEG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    WestJet/Encore/Swoop will operate 59 daily flights this winter from YEG.
    I wonder how many daily flights were operated last winter season for comparison purposes.

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    By my calculations adding and subtracting the +/- it is +24.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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