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Thread: Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

  1. #3701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    By my calculations adding and subtracting the +/- it is +24.
    Thats the thing - WS in its release is not clear what the base was for the +/- numbers. Example Ottawa was not a year round destination last winter schedule so the - is the summer flights being eliminated. And all routes are not shown on the list. I tried to dig up an old schedule or article on all flights including for example Grande Prairie but could not find one. And there is no way that last year there were 24 less flights a day than 59 this winter season.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 14-08-2018 at 11:34 AM.

  2. #3702
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    ^I think that is 24 flights per week.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    By my calculations adding and subtracting the +/- it is +24.
    Thats the thing - WS in its release is not clear what the base was for the +/- numbers. Example Ottawa was not a year round destination last winter schedule so the - is the summer flights being eliminated. And all routes are not shown on the list. I tried to dig up an old schedule or article on all flights including for example Grande Prairie but could not find one. And there is no way that last year there were 24 less flights a day than 59 this winter season.
    The frequency changes are based on WestJet's winter schedule last year. Ottawa was operated last winter but will not be operated this winter hence -6. WestJet operated 399 weekly flights last winter and will operate 413 this winter.

  4. #3704

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    Flair website is showing St Petersburg Florida from YHM and Phoenix Mesa from YEG and YYC. No dates nor prices yet. Guess Flair is not abandoning YHM just yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Flair website is showing St Petersburg Florida from YHM and Phoenix Mesa from YEG and YYC. No dates nor prices yet. Guess Flair is not abandoning YHM just yet.
    Mesa does not show up on Flair on my browser.

  6. #3706

  7. #3707

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    The only connection point to all US flights via YEG is from Winnipeg meaning Flair is not relying on other airports to feed these new flights. Toronto passengers can connect to LAS via YEG but not sure how many would do it.


    So if YEG passengers can't support these routes, there's no backup cavalry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    The only connection point to all US flights via YEG is from Winnipeg meaning Flair is not relying on other airports to feed these new flights. Toronto passengers can connect to LAS via YEG but not sure how many would do it.
    So if YEG passengers can't support these routes, there's no backup cavalry.
    What are you talking about. Clearly you don't know.

  9. #3709

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    The only connection point to all US flights via YEG is from Winnipeg meaning Flair is not relying on other airports to feed these new flights. Toronto passengers can connect to LAS via YEG but not sure how many would do it.
    So if YEG passengers can't support these routes, there's no backup cavalry.
    What are you talking about. Clearly you don't know.
    There are very little to no connections to the YEG transborder Flair flights meaning it will be mostly O&D.
    If you believe differently, present your case.

  10. #3710
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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    The only connection point to all US flights via YEG is from Winnipeg meaning Flair is not relying on other airports to feed these new flights. Toronto passengers can connect to LAS via YEG but not sure how many would do it.
    So if YEG passengers can't support these routes, there's no backup cavalry.
    What are you talking about. Clearly you don't know.
    There are very little to no connections to the YEG transborder Flair flights meaning it will be mostly O&D.
    If you believe differently, present your case.
    Is there a flight from YVR to YEG on December 14th? If so what time does it arrive? What time does the YEG flight to MCO depart? Therefore its possible to get that flight. Presently Flair are not yet showing "connections" on their system but that could change. But to my point any flight from YVR that day could get the YEG-MCO flight.

  11. #3711

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    The only connection point to all US flights via YEG is from Winnipeg meaning Flair is not relying on other airports to feed these new flights. Toronto passengers can connect to LAS via YEG but not sure how many would do it.
    So if YEG passengers can't support these routes, there's no backup cavalry.
    What are you talking about. Clearly you don't know.
    There are very little to no connections to the YEG transborder Flair flights meaning it will be mostly O&D.
    If you believe differently, present your case.
    Is there a flight from YVR to YEG on December 14th? If so what time does it arrive? What time does the YEG flight to MCO depart? Therefore its possible to get that flight. Presently Flair are not yet showing "connections" on their system but that could change. But to my point any flight from YVR that day could get the YEG-MCO flight.
    1. Travel trends show that very few people buy separate tickets and instead prefer connecting flights on one ticket. So until that happens, the number of people doing what you suggested will be minuscule and thus negligible.

    2. The way flights have been distributed between YEG and YWG indicates connections are not in the plan. But I hope to be wrong because without connections, we cannot sustain these flights in the long term.

  12. #3712

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    I think that would ve long term as you're right. Even chimps have that figured out lol. I think potential shortage of metals is preventing full activating. Once they acquire more, i would think we'll really see flight with pitential cross borders and international. We just have to bare with growing pains at this stage. Their long term survival is when Edmonton will become huge bennifitors as we are the head office. It is vital we realize this and continue to support them when possible. This is not much different than WS when they first started.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 20-08-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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  13. #3713

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    Seems like:

    Miami - once a week
    Orlando - 2x
    Vegas, Mesa, Palm Springs - 4x

  14. #3714
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    Quote Originally Posted by PunjabiOil View Post
    Seems like:

    Miami - once a week
    Orlando - 2x
    Vegas, Mesa, Palm Springs - 4x
    Not much really.

  15. #3715

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    For right now. Keep in mind that they're new with limited metals compared to the giants. Let see where this leads. We are a hub now, so, if passengers are funneled in, this could become year round if there is demand.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Smart move - I know many people who were rather upset with WestJet's earlier decision. Good to see that they responded quickly.
    Almost always open to debate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Axb View Post
    Nope - threw some bread crumbs but is missing the mark.

    I will say that I looked at mainline fares last week and this week and they are UP. With this return of 4 flights that may appease some of the angry folks out there. Maybe not once they see the sneaky fare increases and realize dates dont work for them as 4 instead of 7 flights is too limiting for booking packages. They won't be happy. Lets not forget YYC gets 20 Nonstop on WS mainline with better fares - than the 4 YEG gets and all the YYC flights can be bundled with hotels and eligible for WS dollars and perks. Westjet still failing Edmonton.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 22-08-2018 at 11:41 AM.

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    At least Edmonton has options:

    Here are the 22 LAS nonstop flights that I see the week starting Nov 11-17th.

    Westjet: 1,4,5,7 SUN,MON,THR,FRI
    Swoop: 1-7 SUN MON TUE WED THR FRI SAT SUN
    Rouge: 1-7 SUN MON TUE WED THR FRI SAT SUN
    Flair: 1,4,5,7 SUN MON THR FRI[/QUOTE]

  20. #3720

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    ^^Well, Calgary is their hub/HQ, so they're committed to making it succeed there.

    Edmonton...they're just throwing us a bone and only committed to preventing us from spending our money on another airline.

  21. #3721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meo View Post
    ... only committed to preventing us from spending our money on another airline.
    No they are not. They just providing fewer WS nonstop flights and routes than they could IF they wanted to. WS used to provide about 14-16 nonstop "mainline" flights to LAS. Now they provide 4 flights on the mainline and it's spawn Swoop is providing 7 ... a drop of 3-5 a week. Swoop is NOT Westjet - so Westjet says but the public won't ever think that though lol. BUT we now have Rouge with 7 flights and Flair with 4 - so we have options as per the chart I provided in a post below. And with Rouge you get Aeroplan points and can book hotel and attraction packages with your flight every day of the week. unlike Westjet. Westjet obviously thought about that and decided not to deliver daily nonstop Westjet Vacations packages to LAS from Edmonton. Oh well - use AC Rouge or use Flair and book your own room or use a Travel Agent to bundle hotel with rooms on your Flair ticket. Travel agents sell Flair tix. You do have options, its your $$, buy local if you can means fly Flair when you can.

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    Is Icelandair reducing flights over winter even further?

    Bookings after November 2 are now showing no nonstop flights. All via Toronto or Vancouver. No flights over Christmas and then starting again at the end of March?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Is Icelandair reducing flights over winter even further?

    Bookings after November 2 are now showing no nonstop flights. All via Toronto or Vancouver. No flights over Christmas and then starting again at the end of March?
    No, this is the same as last year. The route does not operate over the dead of winter. If you want to go non-stop to Europe, your option would be the flight to Amsterdam on KLM. That one is less than daily over the winter, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Is Icelandair reducing flights over winter even further?

    Bookings after November 2 are now showing no nonstop flights. All via Toronto or Vancouver. No flights over Christmas and then starting again at the end of March?
    No, this is the same as last year. The route does not operate over the dead of winter. If you want to go non-stop to Europe, your option would be the flight to Amsterdam on KLM. That one is less than daily over the winter, though.
    I am fairly certain there were flights right through Christmas and New Years. There are
    no flights from November until April. No flights for 5 months??

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    Quote Originally Posted by AAAAE View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Is Icelandair reducing flights over winter even further?

    Bookings after November 2 are now showing no nonstop flights. All via Toronto or Vancouver. No flights over Christmas and then starting again at the end of March?
    No, this is the same as last year. The route does not operate over the dead of winter. If you want to go non-stop to Europe, your option would be the flight to Amsterdam on KLM. That one is less than daily over the winter, though.
    This is not the same as last year. Last year they operated until the first week of January, this year they end the first week of November.

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    Flights look like they are suspended after Nov 1. They start up again March 23. Oh well.

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    Air Canada Rouge service to Las Vegas has been converted from seasonal to year round.

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    So we got a doggy bone only because of competions. I don't mind downgrading from comfort to less comfort and fly with Flair for Vegas.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Now that we have the Ukrainian Consulate here in Edmonton, I propose we go for the next step: take advantage of the Canada-Ukraine Air Services Agreement https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/transport-agreement/ukraine

    These means getting Ukraine International Airlines to select Edmonton as the "One additional point to be selected by Ukraine" and start once a week summer service from Edmonton (YEG) to Kyiv-Boryspiel (KBP).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    So we got a doggy bone only because of competions. I don't mind downgrading from comfort to less comfort and fly with Flair for Vegas.
    Less comfort? How so?
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  31. #3731
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    ^ Agreed. I get a square butt from three hours on any of 'em.
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  32. #3732

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    So we got a doggy bone only because of competions. I don't mind downgrading from comfort to less comfort and fly with Flair for Vegas.
    Less comfort? How so?
    Perhaps i was slightly vague, but it was in reference to my personal condition on long flights. I have flown with them countless times for FBO, so I'm more than content with flying with them. Those flights I took were very pleasant. I fly first class for the ultra space as I get bladder cramps that has be stretched out on long flights. I need all the room I can get as the cramp pain is like sharp cuts. If I don't stretch it out and bare the discomfort, I potentially may require emergency assistance. 2.5 hr is my body's tolerance for regular seats before I succumb to some form of discomfort... I won't fly the other airline, so I don't think they're superior to Flair if that was what you thought. Any distances to Winnepeg will be flair. WS for Toronto or east coast going through Canada.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 09-09-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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  33. #3733

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Now that we have the Ukrainian Consulate here in Edmonton, I propose we go for the next step: take advantage of the Canada-Ukraine Air Services Agreement https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/transport-agreement/ukraine These means getting Ukraine International Airlines to select Edmonton as the "One additional point to be selected by Ukraine" and start once a week summer service from Edmonton (YEG) to Kyiv-Boryspiel (KBP).
    I remember a long time ago there used to be a flight from Edmonton to Kiev. I never took it but my Baba & Dido did when they went. It'd be cool to see it come back but I won't hold my breath on that one.

  34. #3734

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    I recall that too as a kid in the 80s; wasn't there a flight to Poland- Warsaw as well which ceased operation around 1985/6 (?)

    I would support any route as long as there is an adequate catchment to support it. I wonder how Kiev ' s connection for eastern Europe as a whole? I would imagine there should be enough interest for more than once a week...
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    ^ Fuzzy recollection at best, but I believe LOT were in here briefly around that time.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Now that we have the Ukrainian Consulate here in Edmonton, I propose we go for the next step: take advantage of the Canada-Ukraine Air Services Agreement https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/transport-agreement/ukraine

    These means getting Ukraine International Airlines to select Edmonton as the "One additional point to be selected by Ukraine" and start once a week summer service from Edmonton (YEG) to Kyiv-Boryspiel (KBP).
    Incredible long shot - UIA have no codeshare with any Canadian airline, and have but seven long range aircraft. Sure, be nice to add Kiev to our list of non-stops, alas - just don't see it.
    ... gobsmacked

  37. #3737

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    Is it normal for Air Transat to offer non-stop flights from November to April between Edmonton and Toronto, or is this new?

  38. #3738

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Now that we have the Ukrainian Consulate here in Edmonton, I propose we go for the next step: take advantage of the Canada-Ukraine Air Services Agreement https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/transport-agreement/ukraine

    These means getting Ukraine International Airlines to select Edmonton as the "One additional point to be selected by Ukraine" and start once a week summer service from Edmonton (YEG) to Kyiv-Boryspiel (KBP).
    Incredible long shot - UIA have no codeshare with any Canadian airline, and have but seven long range aircraft. Sure, be nice to add Kiev to our list of non-stops, alas - just don't see it.
    There is potential for code sharing though.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  39. #3739
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    ^^ Never heard of that before.

    But holy cheapo Joe's .... look at the fare: https://bookings.airtransat.com/TSOn...ibleForward.do
    ... gobsmacked

  40. #3740
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    'Edmonton International Airport (EIA) is having another strong year, posting 6.2 per cent passenger growth to the end of July 2018. This robust growth follows a solid 2017, with 7.8 million passengers and a 3.8 per cent increase in passenger numbers. Overall, seat capacity growth at EIA has increased by 14 per cent in 2018, bolstered by expanded services from Flair and the introduction of Swoop to the market.'

    http://flyeia.com/news/eia-winter-20...rvice-update-2
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  41. #3741
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    ^^ Never heard of that before.

    But holy cheapo Joe's .... look at the fare: https://bookings.airtransat.com/TSOn...ibleForward.do
    Link is dead. What were you trying to show?

  42. #3742
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    Whoops - linked to my "personal session" which time-expired

    Anyway ... I got a return fare to YYZ of $291.

    Yep, $292.
    ... gobsmacked

  43. #3743
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Whoops - linked to my "personal session" which time-expired

    Anyway ... I got a return fare to YYZ of $291.

    Yep, $292.
    Wow that is a great fare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    So we got a doggy bone only because of competions. I don't mind downgrading from comfort to less comfort and fly with Flair for Vegas.
    Less comfort? How so?
    Perhaps i was slightly vague, but it was in reference to my personal condition on long flights. I have flown with them countless times for FBO, so I'm more than content with flying with them. Those flights I took were very pleasant. I fly first class for the ultra space as I get bladder cramps that has be stretched out on long flights. I need all the room I can get as the cramp pain is like sharp cuts. If I don't stretch it out and bare the discomfort, I potentially may require emergency assistance. 2.5 hr is my body's tolerance for regular seats before I succumb to some form of discomfort... I won't fly the other airline, so I don't think they're superior to Flair if that was what you thought. Any distances to Winnipeg will be flair. WS for Toronto or east coast going through Canada.
    A very fair set of examples. My Dad is 6'4 and has the same issues. He hates paying more for a seat that once was the norm which now is premium.
    Make the RIGHT choice before you take your last breath......

  45. #3745
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    Tend to agree - though the emergency exit row seats on Flair (or Swoop I imagine) have generous pitch - probably the same as any other airline due to Transport Canada regs.

    I'd pay extra for those on longer flights, definitely.
    ... gobsmacked

  46. #3746

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    ^^
    It's either that or potentially force a plane to land and face an angry mob lol.
    Last edited by ctzn-Ed; 11-09-2018 at 04:02 PM.
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  47. #3747
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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Tend to agree - though the emergency exit row seats on Flair (or Swoop I imagine) have generous pitch - probably the same as any other airline due to Transport Canada regs.

    I'd pay extra for those on longer flights, definitely.
    Absolutely. We paid $120 extra each way for bulkhead seats on an AC 777 Vancouver to Sydney. Worth every penny.
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  48. #3748

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    Is there actually more leg room on bulk head? If so, do you know how much more?
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  49. #3749
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    Row 12 A and C, so we had the first row of 'economy' behind those expensive 'pod' seat/bed things. There are different versions of AC's 777's. In the one we were on, the centre seats of the same row were closer to the bulkhead, so less legroom than ours. I don't know if there was an extra cost to those. If you're doing a long-haul, best to check out Seat Guru and search out your best option on there. For us, on the close to 14-hour flight, the extra $120 was worth it.

    I'm just about 6' and there was plenty of legroom. In fact my feet couldn't reach the bulkhead wall in front of us.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  50. #3750

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    Oh no, I was inquiring just for knowledge. I have no choice but to buy those poddy beds. Should I fly extended family members or something to that degree, it is good to know of those options and the awareness of one's height etc. I'm only 5.9" and slim built so any seat will do really as I'm not fussy. Healthwise, it dictates the poddy that's all. The price for it is not worth that really. It is more of classification with minor perks. If I didn't have to fork out that , I would have prefered to donate the differences between regular class vs first class to some worthwhile charities. I find it sick that we are this pretentious.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  51. #3751

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    KLM again increasing flights from three to four for Nov 2018 to March 2019 for 'winter sports holidays':

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieu...-naar-edmonton
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  52. #3752
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    Very, very good news.
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    Good for Edmonton. Bad for us. Already booked our flights for February.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

  54. #3754
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    Interesting. Don't think I've ever heard of an airline marketing Edmonton as a winter sports (tourist) destination.

    Mind you, great cross-country skiing in general plus the Birkebeiner in February, plus good access to Jasper .... might make sense.

    ... gobsmacked

  55. #3755

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    ^Great partnership with Tourism Jasper to promote winter there, Edmonton as a gateway to the Rockies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    KLM again increasing flights from three to four for Nov 2018 to March 2019 for 'winter sports holidays':

    https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieu...-naar-edmonton
    No where does it say Nov to March. It just says they're increasing it in March.

  57. #3757

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    ^Read other articles.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    ^Read other articles.
    It is only increased in March.

    New timetable

    1 November to 7 January: departure on Tuesday, Thursday and Sunday
    7 January to 20 January: departure on Tuesday and Sunday
    20 January to 28 February: departure on Tuesday, Friday and Sunday
    1 March to 30 March : departure on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday
    https://skiinformatie.nl/klm-vliegt-...r-naar-canada/

  59. #3759

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    ^ I think this is an increase over last year for sure when we had two weeklies for almost two months.

  60. #3760
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyYeg View Post
    ^ I think this is an increase over last year for sure when we had two weeklies for almost two months.
    Yes it is an increase. But it's not 4 weekly for the winter as Greenspace keeps saying.

  61. #3761

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    Oh jeez, I already got '4x a week' tattooed on my body!
    www.decl.org

  62. #3762
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    I hope not on your forehead.

  63. #3763

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    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-a-new-crisis


    Real reason behind Icelandair reduction in service? Our routes aren't high yield traditionally and problems in Europe see us get the reductions.

  64. #3764

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    No small surprise that Westjet's global future in Alberta announcement consists of basing its first three 787-9's in Calgary with flights to London Gatwick (daily), Paris, and Dublin.

    As per Westjet website YEG is a two per week to London next summer. Not sure if further changes will eventuate.

  65. #3765

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    I've given up on AC or WJ launching international routes from YEG.
    We have to look towards international carriers in the short term and hopefully Flair in the long term.

  66. #3766

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    ^^ can't change geography. Nothing interesting for people from UK and France to come see here in Edmonton vs Banff. And too late to bring back large businesses and headquarters to Edmonton from Calgary.

    Don't blame businesses wanting to maximize revenue and profit.

  67. #3767
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    WEM

  68. #3768

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyYeg View Post
    ^^ can't change geography. Nothing interesting for people from UK and France to come see here in Edmonton vs Banff. And too late to bring back large businesses and headquarters to Edmonton from Calgary.

    Don't blame businesses wanting to maximize revenue and profit.
    Never say never.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  69. #3769
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    ^^ Sorry, drum, but no. We've had regular visits from UK family and friends over the years. Trust me, WEM is waaayyy down the list.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  70. #3770
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    Can't really blame WJ. It was created by Calgary entrepreneurs, YYC is its HQ and hub, and the support infrastructure is in place. Not surprising.

    Personally, hoping some day for Norwegian ...
    ... gobsmacked

  71. #3771
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    No one is blaming it is a level of frustration. It seems for every one step forward there are two steps back.
    I have said this many times but tourism is not going to be the driving force commerce is whether it is oil sands or AI.
    Remains to be seen how WS will deploy their 767s.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  72. #3772

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    We just have to wait for Flair to fully grow... there is nothing we can do about the other airlines. When flair is ready for international we will be the launching pad for where they choose to go. Just remember that and keep supporting them.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  73. #3773
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    Maybe a window decal/bumper sticker campaign with an "I Fly Flair" slogan might be a good idea around town.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  74. #3774
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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Maybe a window decal/bumper sticker campaign with an "I Fly Flair" slogan might be a good idea around town.
    I like double entendres: "I Fly With Flair"

  75. #3775
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyyeg View Post
    ^^ can't change geography. Nothing interesting for people from uk and france to come see here in edmonton vs banff. And too late to bring back large businesses and headquarters to edmonton from calgary.

    Don't blame businesses wanting to maximize revenue and profit.
    j
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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  76. #3776

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    Calgary to Banff - ~1 hr 15 min and you can see the mountains from the city.

    Edmonton to Jasper - ~3 hours and the mountains are over the horizon.

    1 hr 15 m from Edmonton gets you to Wildwood.

    Which is the easier sell?

  77. #3777

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Calgary to Banff - ~1 hr 15 min and you can see the mountains from the city.

    Edmonton to Jasper - ~3 hours and the mountains are over the horizon.

    1 hr 15 m from Edmonton gets you to Wildwood.

    Which is the easier sell?
    Moreover, YYC to Jasper is only 50km further than YEG to Jasper and goes through Banff, Lake Louise, Columbia Icefields, and several other major attractions. YEG to Jasper goes through Entwistle and Edson.

    Which is the easier sell?
    Last edited by OffWhyte; 11-10-2018 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Typo

  78. #3778
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    For now lets continue to support our international carriers - KLM, Icelandair as well as domestically with Flair while we build up Edmonton commercially and culturally to make it an appealing city to visit.

    We can't change geography so stop complaining about it.

  79. #3779

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    Good advice Rocket!

    As per Jasper as the air tangent, we all must flex our brains a lot harder than that. While Jasper could be used as part of the equation, its role play is a minimal factor. Flair is two years from any real contention as its priority should be domestic routes and hardware procurement .WS commenced in 1991 and are just now looking at the internationl platform, so lets not play naive here that Flair could magically pull routes out of super thin air. Flair should just continue their baby steps and take advantages of any openings- amalgamate or alliance. Once they're healthy, there could be strategies to reinvent the alliance concept, but I'll reserve throwing ideas out at this moment. My spider sense is fearful of competitive peering eyes lurking on here.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  80. #3780
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    Listening to Westjet's CEO, I'm starting to have trouble understanding the strategy behind these routes.

    Publicly, at least, he's saying WS wants to attract higher end and business flyers. But LGW over LHR???? No codeshare partners there that I can see - mostly ULCC carriers.

    Paris - okay, maybe, depending on the airport. Ar France is a partner, so connections could be good.

    Dublin seems to have great connections, but none of the airlines (except Delta) codeshare, so it would be a destination spot only.

    All that said, I'm sure they've done their homework.

    With AC, WS and British Airways all flying YYC to London, you'd think something would have to give, which ironically enough might work in YEG's favour.
    ... gobsmacked

  81. #3781
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    The only London flights are a few per week in the summer by WestJet and I am assuming those are still using the 767s. Would AC enter the market again with their flight to LHR? Probably not but who knows. You would think for a strong summer market like London we would have a seasonal daily flight by either airline at least but this thread has had conversations about this more than once so I will leave it at that for now.

  82. #3782

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    Booked YXX return on Swoop for $49 beginning of November. Return ticket was $2.
    www.decl.org

  83. #3783
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    On the topic a few posts back regarding Jasper and Banff this came over the twitter wire listing Jasper and Jasper Park Lodge as one of the top ten experiences for skiing and accommodation.

    https://www.ski-i.com/blog/10-best-l...-independence/

    If we are looking to attract more people to Edmonton/Jasper and Europeans in general through KLM and Icelandair the ability to have some sort of rail line between the two locations would be an interesting idea. Europeans love their rail travel and would maybe be enticed to take that service if it was provide on a reliable and convenient schedule.

  84. #3784
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Booked YXX return on Swoop for $49 beginning of November. Return ticket was $2.
    There's going to be (financial) blood on the YXX apron if this keeps up!
    ... gobsmacked

  85. #3785

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    That is the intent.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  86. #3786
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    I’m sure the new Calgary connections to Dublin and Paris would work great for Aer Lingus and Air France flight connections. With these new aircraft at Calgary, I hope that Edmonton will get connections in the future.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  87. #3787

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    Totally agree. Much more scenic round trip to Jasper from Calgary. I recall a conversation I had with someone from Parks Canada telling me that 90% of international and American visitors to Jasper fly in and out of YYC. This totally disputes the fly in to Edmonton to visit Jasper narrative.


    Quote Originally Posted by OffWhyte View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Calgary to Banff - ~1 hr 15 min and you can see the mountains from the city.

    Edmonton to Jasper - ~3 hours and the mountains are over the horizon.

    1 hr 15 m from Edmonton gets you to Wildwood.

    Which is the easier sell?
    Moreover, YYC to Jasper is only 50km further than YEG to Jasper and goes through Banff, Lake Louise, Columbia Icefields, and several other major attractions. YEG to Jasper goes through Entwistle and Edson.

    Which is the easier sell?

  88. #3788
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    Part of the reason why Air Canada added the San Francisco flight was the increasing business with the Silicon Valley. I imagine that there could be a greater demand for service to London with British video game firms like Improbable setting up shop here.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  89. #3789
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    [QUOTE=The_Cat;906750]Part of the reason why Air Canada added the San Francisco flight was the increasing business with the Silicon Valley. I imagine that there could be a greater demand for service to London with British video game firms like Improbable setting up shop here.[/QUOTDoubt it, I'm leaning towards the idea that "tourism" played 100% of the role in SanFran. Well of course we'll need a daily flight to Heathrow to accommodate the throngs of limey's coming over here to work on their video games. Bottom line, I'll be nice to see WJ knock out all of the other Trans flights [email protected] town has and be a one horse WJ loving town.....

  90. #3790
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer
    Totally agree. Much more scenic round trip to Jasper from Calgary. I recall a conversation I had with someone from Parks Canada telling me that 90% of international and American visitors to Jasper fly in and out of YYC. This totally disputes the fly in to Edmonton to visit Jasper narrative.


    Maybe summer visitors. Winter? Not a chance. 93 in the winter is a dangerous road that does not receive frequent plowing and travel times are double what they are in the summer. It is quite literally packed-snow covered most of the winter. For the most part the only people you see on it from October to April are ski-tourers/moutaineers, ice-climbers, and the like.

  91. #3791
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    Even during the summer, motorists have to pay a toll to use the Icefields Parkway
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  92. #3792

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    It's covered by the park entry fee that you have to pay if you go to Jasper as well. You don't pay if you're going straight through on 16 or 1 but you must have a park pass on the Parkway.

    If you're planning on going to Jasper, you're good to drive on 93.

  93. #3793
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Even during the summer, motorists have to pay a toll to use the Icefields Parkway
    It's not a toll, it's a park pass, and if they were going to visit Jasper they'd have to pay for it regardless.

  94. #3794

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    Why only Jasper? Why can't we have them land here and do a " tour the Alberta route?" Start from Edmonton to Jasper then down 93 to Banff; from Banff to Calgary where they head up to Red Deer and back to Edmonton. One week for the loop tour and one week for Edmonton. There is no sense duplicating Banff. If there is a way to do it on train, that is even better.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  95. #3795
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    Why only Jasper? Why can't we have them land here and do a " tour the Alberta route?" Start from Edmonton to Jasper then down 93 to Banff; from Banff to Calgary where they head up to Red Deer and back to Edmonton. One week for the loop tour and one week for Edmonton. There is no sense duplicating Banff. If there is a way to do it on train, that is even better.
    Oh golly - a new rail line cut through the Rockies from Banff to Jasper. Try this on for size:

  96. #3796
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    There is no rail connection between Jasper and Banff and never has been (pretty sure that when the railroads were being built, the Athabasca glacier would have been blocking where the highway currently runs, although it's since receded several kilometers. But my understanding is that early explorers actually came through the next valley to the East back in the 1800's because the Columbia was blocking the main trench/valley). Even building a separate foot/bike path beside 93 is a massive, massive environmental fight: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...itat-1.4045964

    Not to mention the ridiculous cost of a rail line that would require huge amounts of tunneling, bridging etc. to deal with the significant gradients along the parkway.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 14-10-2018 at 07:34 AM.

  97. #3797

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    I didn't say anything about building a new railroad. The statement said, "IF...." meaning that if tracks were there already. The point I was making was to give the tour a bit more dimensions than just Jasper. Tour buses will work as well. When one assume that a person want a train track built for this, he/she must be ludicrous in thinkings to postulate I would be in favor of spending billions on rails so we can , potential, gain millions in return? Give your head a shake!
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  98. #3798
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    Who would go to Jasper and on to Banff and back to Edmonton if you could fly on this?


  99. #3799

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    On the leeward side of the Rockies in upredictable winds? Not me, thanks.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  100. #3800
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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    I didn't say anything about building a new railroad. The statement said, "IF...." meaning that if tracks were there already. The point I was making was to give the tour a bit more dimensions than just Jasper. Tour buses will work as well. When one assume that a person want a train track built for this, he/she must be ludicrous in thinkings to postulate I would be in favor of spending billions on rails so we can , potential, gain millions in return? Give your head a shake!
    You need to guve your head a shake ... it was you that said “If there is a way to do it on train, that is even better.” If your going to muse ... do it while your thinking cap is firmly on your head.

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