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Thread: Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

  1. #3801
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Who would go to Jasper and on to Banff and back to Edmonton if you could fly on this?

    I am in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ctzn-Ed View Post
    I didn't say anything about building a new railroad. The statement said, "IF...." meaning that if tracks were there already. The point I was making was to give the tour a bit more dimensions than just Jasper. Tour buses will work as well. When one assume that a person want a train track built for this, he/she must be ludicrous in thinkings to postulate I would be in favor of spending billions on rails so we can , potential, gain millions in return? Give your head a shake!
    What's ludicrous is "postulating" on some grand Alberta tour without doing even the most basic research on whether there is a rail line between Jasper and Banff, which would have taken all of 30 seconds. Or the slightest shred of common sense. What reason would there have been to build a railway between the 2 back in the heyday of railroads?

  3. #3803

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    All I did was threw in something of my head and suggested something more than Jasper is more beneficial. Certainly ideas could he added to that.. it was not meant as a concrete solution but a concept to launch for conversation. I m not here to declare a solution otherwise I would have done research.
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

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    Wasn't sure where to post this.

    Seattle is doing a pilot program which will allow people to travel through to the secure side of the airport, even if they aren't flying (through security of course).

    https://www.portseattle.org/page/sea...r-pass-program

    Pittsburgh was the first to bring this option back as far as i can tell.

    http://www.flypittsburgh.com/mypitpass

    As someone who enjoys going to the airport I think this would be a great option to join someone for a meal on the secure side of the terminal and would result in more revenue for the airport and it's vendors you would think (parking, food, shopping). I guess what i am saying is if anyone from YEG is reading this, it might be something to explore. It's another benefit that could be used to help win business. Here are a couple scenarios.

    1. My dad is flying for work from Kelowna to Ottawa with a connection in Edmonton. His layover is sufficiently long enough to meet up for a bite to eat on the secure side, but probably too risky (and a hassle) time wise to leave security, eat, and then go through that process again. If i was able to be on the secure side waiting for him when he lands it would guarantee a much more pleasant visit right up until he boards the next flight.

    2. Johnny lives in Red Deer and often decides between flying out of the Edmonton or Calgary airport for his flights to Toronto where he attends U of T. Johnny's parents typically drive to either city and drop him off at the airport. Being a similar distance but having more frequencies they more often use Calgary but Johnny's dad learnt about the ability for non-ticketed individuals to cross through to the secure side and decided they should use Edmonton this time so they can get through security with plenty of time and have a nice family meal before Johnny heads back to school for the semester.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this? Something you would support in Edmonton? I realize my examples were quite long winded but i really wanted to set the scene.

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    rather not. There's enough of a line getting through security as it is.

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    It’s a good idea and that’s the reason airports are starting to do it. You wouldn’t have to do much of an inspection on people not flying. Maybe a separate quick lane for them. My wife has flown to Vietnam twice in the last month and Sonny Boy and I have to say our goodbyes before security and I was thinking about that too. It would be nice to go to the other side for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It’s a good idea and that’s the reason airports are starting to do it. You wouldn’t have to do much of an inspection on people not flying. Maybe a separate quick lane for them. My wife has flown to Vietnam twice in the last month and Sonny Boy and I have to say our goodbyes before security and I was thinking about that too. It would be nice to go to the other side for sure.
    I am opposed unless these people pay a separate Airport Security fee. I am not going to be quiet about subsiding a large family of nonflyers - and having resources redirected or fees go up even more. Nothing wrong with family seeing guests off pre-security .... it works now, is efficient and cost neutral.

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    They are already paying for parking in the parkade. It’s just for people that have friends and family though so you guys are exempt. lol

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    I have a feeling that if extra staff we’re required at the security checkpoint because so many people were using this option then the extra revenue generated could easily pay for additional staff and equipment.

    As mentioned above these passengers would be much easier to scan having no luggage.

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    So non travellers are sitting in chairs at the gate .... give me a break. I will be protesting LOUDLY to prevent such a ******* stupid idea.

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    It would likely be if the businesses behind security were complaining of lack of customers and threatening to break their leases that would affect any such decision. Not us. I was just saying for myself it would be good but ya, not likely.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 10-11-2018 at 04:01 PM.

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    meh, you guys will be sitting enough once you board... <ducks>
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    Given that airports are more and more trying to achieve/regain their "destination" status, I'm not against the return of post security access. They would just need to use a separate lane, pay for the use (maybe with a discount/refund if they purchased something airside), and understand that they are under tighter control … or this'll become a Charlie Foxtrot.

    I'm sure the airside businesses would love the boost.

    ...and before people begin complaining about "rights" and "fairness"...this is a privilege and a luxury. The logistical headaches this would cause, not to mention increased cleaning, replenishment, and seating, definitely justifies the surcharge.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    So non travellers are sitting in chairs at the gate .... give me a break. I will be protesting LOUDLY to prevent such a ******* stupid idea.


    this...

    To allow this access would mean some large capital investment in seating and the like... doing this as is, where is, is asking for Charlie to dance the foxtrot...

    ...and hell no to this post customs. Kiss and cry outside security ...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    I can imagine the flight delays ... as weeping mothers want last hugs and kisses. Not going to happen.

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    Delta is cutting SEA next summer according to this post in Airliners.net.

    http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewt...?f=3&t=1411691

    This move really surprises me. Maybe Alaska will increase flights again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Delta is cutting SEA next summer according to this post in Airliners.net.

    http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewt...?f=3&t=1411691

    This move really surprises me. Maybe Alaska will increase flights again.
    I guess they failed to drown out Alaska? As long as we have coverage to Seatle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    What kind of A321s?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Wasn't sure where to post this.

    Seattle is doing a pilot program which will allow people to travel through to the secure side of the airport, even if they aren't flying (through security of course).

    https://www.portseattle.org/page/sea...r-pass-program

    Pittsburgh was the first to bring this option back as far as i can tell.

    http://www.flypittsburgh.com/mypitpass

    As someone who enjoys going to the airport I think this would be a great option to join someone for a meal on the secure side of the terminal and would result in more revenue for the airport and it's vendors you would think (parking, food, shopping). I guess what i am saying is if anyone from YEG is reading this, it might be something to explore. It's another benefit that could be used to help win business. Here are a couple scenarios.

    1. My dad is flying for work from Kelowna to Ottawa with a connection in Edmonton. His layover is sufficiently long enough to meet up for a bite to eat on the secure side, but probably too risky (and a hassle) time wise to leave security, eat, and then go through that process again. If i was able to be on the secure side waiting for him when he lands it would guarantee a much more pleasant visit right up until he boards the next flight.

    2. Johnny lives in Red Deer and often decides between flying out of the Edmonton or Calgary airport for his flights to Toronto where he attends U of T. Johnny's parents typically drive to either city and drop him off at the airport. Being a similar distance but having more frequencies they more often use Calgary but Johnny's dad learnt about the ability for non-ticketed individuals to cross through to the secure side and decided they should use Edmonton this time so they can get through security with plenty of time and have a nice family meal before Johnny heads back to school for the semester.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this? Something you would support in Edmonton? I realize my examples were quite long winded but i really wanted to set the scene.
    All it takes is for one dumba$$ without a boarding pass to charge the gate to get on an aircraft and the whole terminal has to be cleared and everyone re-processed through security.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    What kind of A321s?
    Let me google that for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW_air
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    I think it's probably best to keep it the way it is.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Can someone tell me what is under construction straight north of the 7-11. They are running the street through and a huge building is going up. You might say between Aurora and Century Mile.

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    Hope somebody knows where you mean.
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    I know what he means there is a building straight east of Aurora’s grow operations. I assume it is something to do with Aurora but I’m guessing.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Ah, thanks Glenco. Got my bearings now.
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    Steel going up today east side of Costco. Looks like three footings along there. Gassing up I asked the attendant and he thought a couple of food places and maybe a Tim’s but was very uncertain. He thinks this company is also developing on the west side of Costco and the west side of the mall along the canal. It’s Avatex so checking their site it shows three developments at EIA. http://www.avatex.ca/

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    According to that site Wendy’s, sleep country, Starbucks, & Booster juice will be opening up in the airport retail development area for 2019 (If I am reading it right).

    Look forward to a legit restaurant with a patio opening around the manmade water feature opening up someday.

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    Oh ya, I see that now. Scrolling right down to the bottom. Don’t forget Fatburger. lol. Plus 2-4 others. Yes sit on the patio and see, and hear, planes taking off and landing. The canal is having skating on it someday too. They should stock a few trout in there for anglers.

  30. #3830

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    For those who follow such things, the U.S. Transportation Department has just released the transborder statistics up to June of 2018. The Edmonton numbers are about what we expected: For the first six months of 2018 the airlines offered just less than 43,000 more seats than they did during the same period the year before, and carried just over 43,000 more passengers. This means a slight increase in average load factor to about 86.8%.

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    The Delta Seattle cancellation has now affected us. Choice of Calgary or Victoria before Edmonton. Took Victoria. Sigh.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    Good choice going with Victoria at least. It is certainly a reminder that we still have work to do just to try and maintain the flights we have let alone add new flights. Those transborder statistics posted above are nice to see!

  33. #3833

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    ^ in the end, DL/WS take your money. They don't care that you went through YYJ. For YEG and the catchment area, it's a loss of a flight to a US hub.

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    Unfortunately we had booked Delta. Wish we had booked Alaska.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

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    Just booked Alaska to SEA in March. Much prefer the E175 to the Q400 tube of poor comfort.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Just booked Alaska to SEA in March. Much prefer the E175 to the Q400 tube of poor comfort.
    I need to have a nice long weekend stay soon enroute to Edmonton - pre-dinner drinks at the Mayflower where I always stay and then dinner at the Pink Door and then some cool little blues or jazz bar. Repeat.

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    Just booked WJ non-stop to Kahului and direct on the way back for March! Can't wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Just booked WJ non-stop to Kahului and direct on the way back for March! Can't wait.
    Great place to visit - I was there twice with WestJet - once nonstop with their Leased 757s then once through Vancouver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Just booked Alaska to SEA in March. Much prefer the E175 to the Q400 tube of poor comfort.
    Yup!!!!! Sure are! Last Sep got on the what looked like the oldest Q400 ever made out of SEA to YEG - of course it had a maintenance issue that forced us to hop on a E175 in lieu of......thank god

  40. #3840

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Just booked WJ non-stop to Kahului and direct on the way back for March! Can't wait.
    Great place to visit - I was there twice with WestJet - once nonstop with their Leased 757s then once through Vancouver.
    This will be my second time in Maui. Was there 5 years ago for my honeymoon. Love that place.

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    My highly scientific Twitter poll:

    'What next non-stop route would you like to see'

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    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    I feel like we need to get KLM and Icelandair up to daily before we add another European destination.

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    Agreed that it would be really nice to solidify those on the Europe side of things.

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    Yes and no.

    LHR or FRA are much different destinations than AMS or a 1 stopper.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Yes and no.

    LHR or FRA are much different destinations than AMS or a 1 stopper.

    The direct to AMS enables almost hourly connections to get into LCY https://www.londoncityairport.com/
    Right into the heart of London.

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    Which is a great option, but direct LHR or FRA would be very important connections for YEG.
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    Yes, right into LCY is great for getting into the centre of London directly, but many passengers are heading elsewhere around southern England and Wales. The better option there is either LHR or LGW because both are easy access to the M25 and the ability to skirt London altogether and join your chosen major route into the hinterland. Plus LHR and LGW are one hop - major advantage on what is primarily an overnight flight from here.
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    Oh contra. Many people heading to Manchester Glasgow etc prefer connection through AMS. Much more convenient than flying through LHR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Oh contra. Many people heading to Manchester Glasgow etc prefer connection through AMS. Much more convenient than flying through LHR.
    And the ability to fly on a LCC that you can’t get at LHR.

  50. #3850

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    I have flown to London several times in the last few years. An LHR connection is pretty important in my books.

    Right now the you can fly direct via YYC and get there in the least amount of time. Problem with KLM is it's several hours longer, and more expensive generally than AC to LHR. I've also flown British Airways via YYC to LHR Terminal 5 which is fun. Both AC and BA fly Dreamliners, which I really like.

    I'm curious about Westjet to Gatwick. Even though it can be $100 or so cheaper than a AC seat sale, they charge for baggage, and the train ride from London to Gatwick is about $30CAD each way. So it's a wash in my books.

    LHR connection is important for other continent connections. It's THE connection to Africa for instance.
    Last edited by GreenSPACE; 15-01-2019 at 04:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Oh contra. Many people heading to Manchester Glasgow etc prefer connection through AMS. Much more convenient than flying through LHR.
    That's why I said southern England and Wales (the south of that, too - where most of its poulation is).
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    I have flown to London several times in the last few years. An LHR connection is pretty important in my books.

    Right now the you can fly direct via YYC and get there in the least amount of time. Problem with KLM is it's several hours longer, and more expensive generally than AC to LHR. I've also flown British Airways via YYC to LHR Terminal 5 which is fun. Both AC and BA fly Dreamliners, which I really like.

    I'm curious about Westjet to Gatwick. Even though it can be $100 or so cheaper than a AC seat sale, they charge for baggage, and the train ride from London to Gatwick is about $30CAD each way. So it's a wash in my books.

    LHR connection is important for other continent connections. It's THE connection to Africa for instance.
    I flew WestJet to Gatwick on their 767. It was fine. Pity I had to connect in YYC. Can't wait to try their 787s.

    Gatwick is a home for low cost carriers. Having tried Ryanair and EasyJet, I prefer EasyJet. Great way to get around Europe.

  53. #3853
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    Indigo partners, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_Partners the people who invested in WOW were in Edmonton last week. Very interesting don’t you think?
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  54. #3854

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    I have flown to London several times in the last few years. An LHR connection is pretty important in my books.

    Right now the you can fly direct via YYC and get there in the least amount of time. Problem with KLM is it's several hours longer, and more expensive generally than AC to LHR. I've also flown British Airways via YYC to LHR Terminal 5 which is fun. Both AC and BA fly Dreamliners, which I really like.

    I'm curious about Westjet to Gatwick. Even though it can be $100 or so cheaper than a AC seat sale, they charge for baggage, and the train ride from London to Gatwick is about $30CAD each way. So it's a wash in my books.

    LHR connection is important for other continent connections. It's THE connection to Africa for instance.
    I agree with you that LHR is an important connection, but I would rather fly to Africa with KLM through AMS. I have flown through Amsterdam, Paris, London, Frankfurt, and Istanbul to Africa and I think AMS beats all of those hubs hands down, particularly to East Africa.

    FRA is actually a better hub than LHR for Africa considering that 3 of the 5 biggest air carriers in Africa are Star Alliance members (Ethiopian Airlines, EgyptAir, and South African Airways). Kenya Airways (#5 in Africa) is a SkyTeam member and part owned by KLM/AirFrance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Indigo partners, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_Partners the people who invested in WOW were in Edmonton last week. Very interesting don’t you think?
    It is interesting. What was your information source for the visit and can you provide a web link?

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    It was on Edmonton plane spotters Facebook page. One of the members posted an itinerary of their executive jets flight plan. I will find the link when I get home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Indigo partners, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_Partners the people who invested in WOW were in Edmonton last week. Very interesting don’t you think?
    It is interesting. What was your information source for the visit and can you provide a web link?
    Considering WOW just announced cancellation of service to Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago, Dallas, JFK, and Orlando within the last month, plus they have cancelled Miami, Pittsburgh, St. Louis, Cincinnati, and Cleveland within the last year, plus they will not be starting Vancouver after all... I doubt they starting Edmonton anytime soon.

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    Here is what I wrote on Skyscraper:

    “That is interesting. Clearly a visit with Enerjet staff at YYC. And maybe a buyout offer to Flair as the Chairman of Flair office is in Edmonton. Clearly Flair will be a thorn in the side of Enerjet until its removed. Does anyone know if Flair have access to deep pocket investors?

    With 3 more LCC ramping up - giving Canada 4 with Flair ... some will fail. Bets anyone?? I think Flair will survive given it intends to "anchor" flights from YEG. and not operate "point to point" service that the others may use. At least that's Flair's current survival strategy given its lack of metal and possibly capital. Flairs future depends on the pockets of its investors and are they deep enough?”

    https://centreforaviation.com/analys...-market-454272
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 17-01-2019 at 10:27 PM.

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    It would seem extremely unlikely they would invest in two LCC in Canada so I wonder what their strategy is. Flair are up and running so on the surface it would appear they are the better bet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    It would seem extremely unlikely they would invest in two LCC in Canada so I wonder what their strategy is. Flair are up and running so on the surface it would appear they are the better bet.
    As we can all read, Indigo are committed to a share of a revamped Enerjet which at present is based out of YYC. What they were doing at YEG is somewhat puzzling - though if they were here for mere hours it is likely simply to sound out EIA officials or have a brief face to face with Flair President and Chair. I imagine a buy out of Flair would be at the top of the agenda.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    It would seem extremely unlikely they would invest in two LCC in Canada so I wonder what their strategy is. Flair are up and running so on the surface it would appear they are the better bet.
    As we can all read, Indigo are committed to a share of a revamped Enerjet which at present is based out of YYC. What they were doing at YEG is somewhat puzzling - though if they were here for mere hours it is likely simply to sound out EIA officials or have a brief face to face with Flair President and Chair. I imagine a buy out of Flair would be at the top of the agenda.

    I would look at a visit to EIA as an opportunity on real estate. Hangar space and fees for use of terminal, bridge, landing, deicing for the first year or two.

    Comparing Edmonton to Calgary vis-a-vis debt holdings, I dare say Edmonton has the ability to be more flexible than Calgary.

    Flair is in the midst of a union dispute. Major turn off to potential investors. Would let Flair die before wasting time and money on that show. I have EnerJet's certificate and papers to start running right now, why would I want Flair's too and all the head aches?

    Indigo, not too long ago, went out and bought dozens of A320/321neos for a number of airlines it owns. A321neos are the future of the ULCC long-haul beyond 4 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Yes and no.

    LHR or FRA are much different destinations than AMS or a 1 stopper.

    The direct to AMS enables almost hourly connections to get into LCY https://www.londoncityairport.com/
    Right into the heart of London.

    And...support the home team! Every time you fly through LCY you are helping to ensure the financial sustainability of the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund. AIMCo bought a piece of LCY.

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