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Thread: Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustYeggin View Post
    ^^^
    Why do you not get the point?

    This is about avoiding YYC as much as possible.
    I understand the argument you are trying to make but it is not logical.

    No one has explained why you need to avoid YYC and it is OK to connect through other airports. Other than a lame excuse that it gives them more passengers or that airlines will think that Edmontonians like to connect. Airlines know we would prefer nonstops as we are just the ame as all the other passengers out there. If there is demand we will get the onstops but until then should the passenger not be free and encouraged to make sound economic and sustainable choices?

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    Its been said and you clearly just don't get

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Its been said and you clearly just don't get
    Likewise.

    A passenger is a passenger no matter where they fly too. This is just another example of people on C2E hating anything to do with Calgary.
    Last edited by jbubble; 17-07-2012 at 09:30 PM.

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    But it isn't, have you even read the numerous posts in this thread? If we all connect in Calgary then our other flights suffer and we eventually lose them, why is this so hard to comprehend? We need to support our transborder flights so they continue to operate and eventually with strong demand, airlines will add frequency (as seen with the IAH) or new routes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    But it isn't, have you even read the numerous posts in this thread? If we all connect in Calgary then our other flights suffer and we eventually lose them, why is this so hard to comprehend? We need to support our transborder flights so they continue to operate and eventually with strong demand, airlines will add frequency (as seen with the IAH) or new routes.
    I ask you the same thing, have you read the numerous posts in this thread?

    I have not said ALWAYS connect in Calgary I have said connect in Calgary "if the travel times were better and price better vis a vis the other options?"

    My point is stop beating up on people that choose for their own reasons to connect through Calgary. It makes zero difference in the route planners decisions, it is simply marketing rhetoric put out to counter the inability to attract the flights the community wants.
    Last edited by jbubble; 18-07-2012 at 07:20 AM.

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    I give up, you are right, it doesn't make a difference.



    http://wheresmysammich.com/picture/6904/mega-facepalm/

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    Just trying to understand your rational.

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    You said its due to "the inability to attract the flights the community wants.", why do you think that is? If all we do is connect via Calgary, why would airlines bother offering flights from here when they can and will funnel us through Calgary?

    This is what you aren't getting, the more we use Calgary and ignore our own flights, the more chance of us losing our flights which in turn makes it almost immposible to get new routes/flights. Support our airport by using our transborder flights, if not, all we will be is a feeder airport with a bunch of prop planes flying to YYC every 30 min.

    Do you agree that if we don't use our transborder flights then we will lose them?

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    Yes I agree that if we do not use the transborder or London flight we will use them. My point is let people make a choice without guilting them.

    You say "If all we do is connect via Calgary, why would airlines bother offering flights from here when they can and will funnel us through Calgary?". Well the same thing can be said by substituting Calgary with Toronto, Vancouver, Chicago, Minneapolis, etc. Itis exactly the same scenario.

    The error is airline planners do not look at it this way. When there is enough originating traffic and potential through or connecting traffic, they will add capacity or new routes to the market (you can also throw lots of money at the airline to buy the route but that has limited success).

    I personally would take a three pronged approach. Get more capacity to places like Saskatoon, Grande Prairie, etc, to help build through traffic. Get more frequency to key connecting airports (ie Toronto, Vanouver, Chicago). Then build a solid case that is supported by the business community for other key gateways.

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    But we want to get funneled to airports like ORD, SFO, IAH, etc, they have numerous connections to get anywhere in the world, isn't that the point of having an airport?

    You say when there is enough originating traffic then we will get more routes and/or add capacity, why would they add it at YEG when everyone connects in YYC? Wouldn't they just add capacity in YYC (hint, that's what is already happening)?

    Giving YYC all of our business makes zero sense and is detrimental to our airport, why is this so difficult to understand?

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    Again, where have I said give YYC all our business? Please point it out because that is not what I am saying.

    Getting more capacity and routes just does not happen, perhaps I should have been clearer for you. I mentioned before another fact we have to deal with is that YYC is Alberta Hub for the airlines, including Westjet. This is much harder to overcome but it does happen, just look at the transborder routes and LHR.

    I think the goal for our airport is being able to get to most destinations in the world with only one stop, we will not have nonstop service everywhere that is a reality we have to deal with, but getting to many places nonstop most places with 1 stop is realistic.

    So I ask you this, with the expansion at YYC they are hoping to get lots of new destinations. Let's say they achieve this goal, and have numerous opportunities to get many places in the world. Using the logic that is in your first paragraph would it then be OK to connect in Cagary?

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    You are saying that connecting in YYC has no influence on our airport or region which is completely false.

    It will never be okay to connect in YYC, YYC steals passengers from our catchment area and it is detrimental to our region and air service. You say getting more routes and capacity just does not happen, well that is because we are using YYC and there is no reason to add capacity at YEG. If we used the flights we have without using YYC, then a) their flights will be less used and they would in theory require less flights and b) if ours are always full, we would need more routes and/or frequencies to get people to their destinations.

    Do you honestly believe if we keep connecting in Calgary in such high numbers that we won't lose the current service we have? Shouldn't Edmontonians support our airport and routes, why would I want to support their airport and hurt ours?

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    Connecting through YYC on a round trip will give YYC a passenger count of 4 (to destination 1 arrival, 1 departure from destination 1 arrival 1 departure) and YEG a passenger count of 2 (1 departure to destination and 1 arrival from destination).

    If I am going on a 5 or 6 hour trip to somewhere and have to make a connection why would I want to make that connection 1/2 an hour away? I would still have a 4-1/2 or 5-1/2 hour trip on a cramped crappy airplane.

    If we could only get high speed rail to Calgary we close YEG.

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    We arent competing with YVR or YYZ, but we are competing with YYC to a certain extent. Connecting through YYC is a vote for their air service, simple as that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We arent competing with YVR or YYZ, but we are competing with YYC to a certain extent. Connecting through YYC is a vote for their air service, simple as that.
    Bang on!!
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    We arent competing with YVR or YYZ, but we are competing with YYC to a certain extent. Connecting through YYC is a vote for their air service, simple as that.
    No it does not. It means that person connecting through YYC found that particular routing (time, cost, etc) desirable for their circumstances. As a consumer they chose that option.

    We are competing with all other airports, some to a greater extent than others.

    Again, I have never said "connect through YYC all the time" but many here put it across as that for whatever reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    You are saying that connecting in YYC has no influence on our airport or region which is completely false.

    It will never be okay to connect in YYC, YYC steals passengers from our catchment area and it is detrimental to our region and air service. You say getting more routes and capacity just does not happen, well that is because we are using YYC and there is no reason to add capacity at YEG. If we used the flights we have without using YYC, then a) their flights will be less used and they would in theory require less flights and b) if ours are always full, we would need more routes and/or frequencies to get people to their destinations.

    Do you honestly believe if we keep connecting in Calgary in such high numbers that we won't lose the current service we have? Shouldn't Edmontonians support our airport and routes, why would I want to support their airport and hurt ours?
    If they are connecting from YEG to YYC they are supporting our airport. If they drive, they are not.

    The reason "getting more routes and capacity just does not happen" is Calgary is a Hub. That is a fact. And it will be difficult to change that fact.
    Last edited by jbubble; 18-07-2012 at 01:30 PM.

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    ^ No they aren't, they are supporting YYC's flights by feeding them YEG passengers, all we get a prop planes to YYC to fill their planes, why is this so freaking hard to comprehend???????

    At any rate, I am done trying to convince you as you are clearly not listening to the numerous posts and posters that disagree.

    I guess EIA has it wrong too

    Avoid lengthy layovers
    Taking a non-stop flight saves you time and inconvenience and who doesn't want to get to their destination quickly?

    Less stress and hassle
    Using one of our US non-stops allows you to clear customs here in Edmonton prior to your departure. It is a great way to avoid the stress of clearing customs during a stop-over. Please check with your airline directly for recommended and required check in times.

    Grow our air service
    The airlines really take notice when our flights are continuously full. Filling existing flights really helps us make the business case for airlines to add new flights and new destinations.

    Choosing to Fly Edmonton First to improve air service and get new routes added. Book your direct US and international connecting flights through our US hubs to vote for our non-stop air service.


    Save money and inconvenience
    Choosing to drive to our neighbour to the south and depart from their airport comes with hidden costs. Factor in gas, time, mileage on your vehicle and possible hotel accommodation and the idea doesn't seem so appealing.
    http://www.flyeia.com/travel_planning.aspx

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    ^I did not realize WestJet was using the Q400 yet between Edmonton and Calgary. Although you will probably disagree with me, WestJet does not use prop planes (yet) on this route and not all of the service Air Canada provides is Dash 8 there are some jets.

    If you get on a plane in Edmonton you support the airport.

    At any rate, I am done trying to convince you as you are clearly not listening to the numerous posts and posters that disagree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbubble View Post
    At any rate, I am done trying to convince you
    Thank goodness!
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jbubble View Post
    At any rate, I am done trying to convince you
    Thank goodness!
    You know it is this attitude that gives Edmonton and C2E a bad name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbubble View Post
    ^I did not realize WestJet was using the Q400 yet between Edmonton and Calgary. Although you will probably disagree with me, WestJet does not use prop planes (yet) on this route and not all of the service Air Canada provides is Dash 8 there are some jets.

    If you get on a plane in Edmonton you support the airport.

    At any rate, I am done trying to convince you as you are clearly not listening to the numerous posts and posters that disagree.
    If you get on a plane in Edmonton you support EIA. If you transfer in Calgary you support their airport twice as much.

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    ^no you don't. A passenger that transfers is counted 0.5 at the transfer airport for each plane. For example a passenger on a flight routed YEG-YYC-LHR LHR-YYC-YEG works out to YEG(2) YYC(2)

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    I have never seen a passenger count for any airport with half passenger, do you have a link as that doesn't sound correct.

    I still think if a YEG passenger takes a flight to Calgary (YYC arrival) and then connected to LHR (YYC departure), it is considered 2 flights each way for YYC and 1 for YEG.

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    I would be shocked if they were counted at 0.5 I found this and it sounds about right.

    "Direct transit passengers. Passengers who continue their journey on a flight having the same flight number as the flight on which they arrived. Passengers in direct transit are counted only once. Other transit passengers and stop-over passengers are counted twice: once as embarked passengers and once as disembarked passengers."

    http://www.icaodata.com/Terms.aspx

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    Basically, a passenger could be either:

    Enplaned
    Deplaned or
    Transit = Transit passengers count as 1 not 2


    Otherwise, ATL could easily show numbers of 150 million pax

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    Originating = 1
    Terminating = 1
    Connecting = 2 (1D+1E)
    Stopover = 2 (1D+1E)
    Direct Transit = 1

    Direct meaning same airline flight number, not necessarily same plane.

  28. #228

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    A Transit passenger is A transit passenger not TWO transit passengers.

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    The quote is perfectly clear (and accurate), the source authoritative. Not sure how you're missing the context. There are "direct" and "other" transit passengers, along with "stop-over" passengers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    I would be shocked if they were counted at 0.5 I found this and it sounds about right.

    "Direct transit passengers. Passengers who continue their journey on a flight having the same flight number as the flight on which they arrived. Passengers in direct transit are counted only once. Other transit passengers and stop-over passengers are counted twice: once as embarked passengers and once as disembarked passengers."

    http://www.icaodata.com/Terms.aspx

  30. #230

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    Folks, its all about yield. Edmonton is a low yield city. Disagree if you like, but that is the truth. Airlines will simply not put Aircraft into a city that does not produce profits. Yes flights are full,..full Aircraft do not equate to profitable runs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    Folks, its all about yield. Edmonton is a low yield city. Disagree if you like, but that is the truth. Airlines will simply not put Aircraft into a city that does not produce profits. Yes flights are full,..full Aircraft do not equate to profitable runs.
    price.

    So lets talk a bout yield. If you are referring to fares, WJ flights are the same seat price. What % of traffic at YYC is derived from WJ? And what % at YYC?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    Folks, its all about yield. Edmonton is a low yield city. Disagree if you like, but that is the truth. Airlines will simply not put Aircraft into a city that does not produce profits. Yes flights are full,..full Aircraft do not equate to profitable runs.
    Have fun trying logic on ths group.

  33. #233

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    I'll give you a hint. YEG has much less business class capacity..i will not get into that..than YYC. The J cabin generally subsidizes the Y cabin, without getting too much into specifics. This is one way yield is increased on specific sectors or city pairs.

  34. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    I'll give you a hint. YEG has much less business class capacity..i will not get into that..than YYC. The J cabin generally subsidizes the Y cabin, without getting too much into specifics. This is one way yield is increased on specific sectors or city pairs.
    WJ has no business class. So you mean AC....forgetting for a moment US airlines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    I'll give you a hint. YEG has much less business class capacity..i will not get into that..than YYC. The J cabin generally subsidizes the Y cabin, without getting too much into specifics. This is one way yield is increased on specific sectors or city pairs.
    If you're comparing Edmonton to Calgary in terms on business class you are right. But to say that Edmonton in general is a low yield market is false.

  36. #236

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    My feeling is you will start seeing Westjet venture into the business travel market in the future. That's where most of the profits are for the airlines. Unfortunately, we lack that part of the market big time in relation to our competition to the South

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    Seems Westjet has been making money every quarter for a number of years, how is Air Canada doing with all those business seats lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Unfortunately, we lack that part of the market big time in relation to our competition to the South
    I think that's the point Brent K and rime ice were trying to make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LO 044 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Unfortunately, we lack that part of the market big time in relation to our competition to the South
    I think that's the point Brent K and rime ice were trying to make.
    Same point I have been trying to make too but it is too negative apparently.

  40. #240

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Do you honestly believe if we keep connecting in Calgary in such high numbers that we won't lose the current service we have? Shouldn't Edmontonians support our airport and routes, why would I want to support their airport and hurt ours?
    Because, if you want to be loyal, its better to support an airport as follows:

    Local first
    Province Next
    Country Next.

    Supporting Vancouver, or Chicago ahead of a city in Alberta is just disloyal to who we are, its giving tax dollars to provinces or countries that won't benefit our lives. Sure YEG has a petty campaign whereby they think they can profit by making YYC out as an enemy of Edmontonians, but its backfiring because all it has done is highlight that there is better service in YYC. Time to stop the dumb games, and focus management attention instead on securing and marketing new flights for YEG. Oh, but that takes some effort... easier for management to blame a neighbor for their failings (and by inference, YYC's successes). All the effort blaming Calgary, while Calgary has been taking chances / risk to improve its airport (for example, by running with the Port Alberta concept) while YEG and its partners dithered and complained. YEG needs some new blood in charge, its leadership just whines instead of leads.

    The YEG campaign is no different from US automakers in the 1980's - "support your nation, don't buy a Japanese car - even though its more reliable, has better quality and better fuel economy". "Oh we can't fix it because bad consumers keep destroying our manufacturing plants by choosing foreign automakers". Eventually the US automakers realized that you have to compete with product first, and YEG needs to up its offering as well, even if it means taking a few chances, and management putting in some sweat to secure some momentum with airlines.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-07-2012 at 08:51 AM.

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    I agree with moahunter. If a flight fails from Calgary, it will never happen out of Edmonton, but if it succeeds, there's a chance Edmonton will get it one day.

    Boycotting Calgary hurts Edmonton too.

    Lufthansa recently pulled out of Calgary. What is the chance of them landing at Edmonton now? 0. If they were successful for many years in Calgary, the chance of them coming to Edmonton would be much greater...

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Do you honestly believe if we keep connecting in Calgary in such high numbers that we won't lose the current service we have? Shouldn't Edmontonians support our airport and routes, why would I want to support their airport and hurt ours?
    Because its better to support an airport as follows:

    Local first
    Province Next
    Country Next.

    Supporting Vancouver, or Chicago ahead of a city in Alberta is just disloyal to who we are, its giving tax dollars to provinces or countries that won't benefit our lives. Sure YEG has a petty campaign whereby they think they can profit by making YYC out as an enemy of Edmontonians, but its backfiring because all it has done is highlight that there is better service in YYC. Time to stop the dumb games, and focus management attention instead on securing and marketing new flights for YEG. Oh, but that takes some effort... easier for management to blame a neighbor for their failings (and by inference, YYC's successes). All the effort blaming Calgary, while Calgary has been taking chances / risk to improve its airport (for example, by running with the Port Alberta concept) while YEG and its partners dithered and complained. YEG needs some new blood in charge, its leadership just whines instead of leads.

    The YEG campaign is no different from US automakers in the 1980's - "support your nation, don't buy a Japanese car - even though its more reliable, has better quality and better fuel economy". "Oh we can't fix it because bad consumers keep destroying our manufacturing plants by choosing foreign automakers". Eventually the US automakers realized that you have to compete with product first, and YEG needs to up its offering as well, even if it means taking a few chances, and management putting in some sweat to secure some momentum with airlines.
    Excellent!!!

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    Its not about avoiding YYC or YVR, YVG but rather why would I want to do a layover when I can fly direct?

    For example if I can fly direct to Phoenix or Palm Springs it takes me about 4 hours if I have to do a layover typically this increases the total time from takeoff to final land to about 6-8 hours, I'd rather fly direct and will give business to companies that give me this option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    Do you honestly believe if we keep connecting in Calgary in such high numbers that we won't lose the current service we have? Shouldn't Edmontonians support our airport and routes, why would I want to support their airport and hurt ours?
    Because, if you want to be loyal, its better to support an airport as follows:

    Local first
    Province Next
    Country Next.

    Supporting Vancouver, or Chicago ahead of a city in Alberta is just disloyal to who we are, its giving tax dollars to provinces or countries that won't benefit our lives. Sure YEG has a petty campaign whereby they think they can profit by making YYC out as an enemy of Edmontonians, but its backfiring because all it has done is highlight that there is better service in YYC. Time to stop the dumb games, and focus management attention instead on securing and marketing new flights for YEG. Oh, but that takes some effort... easier for management to blame a neighbor for their failings (and by inference, YYC's successes). All the effort blaming Calgary, while Calgary has been taking chances / risk to improve its airport (for example, by running with the Port Alberta concept) while YEG and its partners dithered and complained. YEG needs some new blood in charge, its leadership just whines instead of leads.

    The YEG campaign is no different from US automakers in the 1980's - "support your nation, don't buy a Japanese car - even though its more reliable, has better quality and better fuel economy". "Oh we can't fix it because bad consumers keep destroying our manufacturing plants by choosing foreign automakers". Eventually the US automakers realized that you have to compete with product first, and YEG needs to up its offering as well, even if it means taking a few chances, and management putting in some sweat to secure some momentum with airlines.
    I couldn't disagree more, the second you fly via YYC instead of routes like ORD, SFO, DEN, IAH, etc, you are NOT supporting the local first but actually doing the opposite and is detrimental to our air service. Flying through YYC does two things, helps Calgary get/keep more/better flights and more importantly it doesn't use OUR airport by supporting its longer hauled routes which hurts us all and turns us into a feeder airport. Bottom line is, if you don't use the routes we have, we will lose them and they are very very difficult to get back.
    Last edited by Hilman; 24-07-2012 at 09:34 AM.

  45. #245

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Its not about avoiding YYC or YVR, YVG but rather why would I want to do a layover when I can fly direct?
    And YEG needs to offer more of that, and they can if they put some effort into locating new flight destinations, and marketing them (work with tourist agents, provide them materials both locally and the foreign destination). If need be, even take a chance and subsidize new flights or offer incentives to build the market and get the pricing competitive. Like the US automakers who finally realized you won't win by blaming customers who leave, but you will win by offering what customers want. The only way to get ahead is to walk the pavement, to put in the hard work and invest your capital, not be afraid to take some chances, that's real leadership.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-07-2012 at 09:51 AM.

  46. #246

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    YEG does not compete with ORD, MSP, IAH.... But it does compete with YYC.

    Connecting via any city but YYC helps Edmonton - or does not make YYC a better connected airport. Simple!

  47. #247

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Its not about avoiding YYC or YVR, YVG but rather why would I want to do a layover when I can fly direct?

    For example if I can fly direct to Phoenix or Palm Springs it takes me about 4 hours if I have to do a layover typically this increases the total time from takeoff to final land to about 6-8 hours, I'd rather fly direct and will give business to companies that give me this option.
    Lets suppose a person is going to a certain destination from Yeg and there is no direct flight to that destination. Lets assume it will take them same amount of time to get to that destination when flying through YYC or YVR and it was going to be same cost or even cheaper to fly through YYC. Most YEG supporters here on this forum wouldn't even think about flying through YYC b/c of the hate they have towards YYC even though it could make total sense to use YYC. I don't get this...do YYC supporters have this much hate for YEG?? You don't see it on their forums. Doesn't look like they are as obessed with YEG as much as YEG supporters are obessed with YYC and it's success.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Its not about avoiding YYC or YVR, YVG but rather why would I want to do a layover when I can fly direct?

    For example if I can fly direct to Phoenix or Palm Springs it takes me about 4 hours if I have to do a layover typically this increases the total time from takeoff to final land to about 6-8 hours, I'd rather fly direct and will give business to companies that give me this option.
    Lets suppose a person is going to a certain destination from Yeg and there is no direct flight to that destination. Lets assume it will take them same amount of time to get to that destination when flying through YYC or YVR and it was going to be same cost or even cheaper to fly through YYC. Most YEG supporters here on this forum wouldn't even think about flying through YYC b/c of the hate they have towards YYC even though it could make total sense to use YYC. I don't get this...do YYC supporters have this much hate for YEG?? You don't see it on their forums. Doesn't look like they are as obessed with YEG as much as YEG supporters are obessed with YYC and it's success.
    it has nothing to do with either hatred or obsession. it has everything to do with potential consequences. yyc is in no way faced with the potential of becoming a feeder for yeg (or even having to compete with hsr for that). those are very real potential consequences for yeg in reverse. it's no wonder "their forums" don't mirror ours, their circumstances don't mirror ours.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

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    ^^ maybe its because their airport bleeding millions of pax a year to another airport (YEG)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    it has nothing to do with either hatred or obsession. it has everything to do with potential consequences. yyc is in no way faced with the potential of becoming a feeder for yeg (or even having to compete with hsr for that). those are very real potential consequences for yeg in reverse. it's no wonder "their forums" don't mirror ours, their circumstances don't mirror ours.
    But, like the auto analogy, YEG's approach to the problem, of blaming its customers for its failings, is not the way to win customers over.

    I don't think most people care whether YEG is sucessful or not, but they do care about having good flight connections. Like it or not, YEG is failing miserably at this. You can "blame "Canada"" (or Calgary in this instance) until blue in the face, but unless YEG lifts its game and trys a bit harder to secure some excellent flights and helps to market them well, its not going to work. Its just death spiral that highlighting has made worse not better.

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    Moahunter, the problem is that history shows that by flying through YYC, all we ever get are more turboprops. Yes, in theory, some day we might get the same flight but it hasn't really happened.

    But if we take flights through other airports (yyz, ord, yvr, lax, etc.), we atleast strengthen those routes in the worst case scenario.

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    I just read Westjet is expanding YYC yet again for the winter. New routes and more flights to the USA.
    I looked at YEG and could find nothing. In fact it looks like Montego Bay is gone too.
    So how is Westjet such a huge supporter of Edmonton again?

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    I would say they still are a huge supporter, just not as big as their corporate headquarter city (shocking hey). They still provide many flights to a lot of cities in the US/Caribbean, in fact they probably provide more destinations and flights than all the other airlines combined at YEG.

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    OK. Yes, they are our #1. But over the last few years we are seriously falling behind as they keep beefing up YYC (mainly). Of course it is their hub and all that but is that the excuse always? Kelowna and Vancouver also getting more flights. If we were able to support more flights why aren't we getting them!? But all I can see is nada for us. Unite for more flights? Kick the YYC habit? Well done!
    Last edited by Jarrod; 24-07-2012 at 04:14 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faraz View Post
    Moahunter, the problem is that history shows that by flying through YYC, all we ever get are more turboprops. Yes, in theory, some day we might get the same flight but it hasn't really happened.

    But if we take flights through other airports (yyz, ord, yvr, lax, etc.), we atleast strengthen those routes in the worst case scenario.
    I think that's a nice theory faraz, if customers were a unified union who all agreed to work together to try and put pressure on. But, despite the media campaign, that's not the case, and never will be. People don't have infinite riches to select the most direct flight options, and people don't have infinite patience to fly longer routes simply to support YEG.

    The only way YEG will win more customers is to provide services those customers want. The media campaign has failed, its time to instead start rolling up sleeves and securing and marketing new direct flights. Sadly, based on what we have seen of YEG of late (like the Port Alberta fiasco), rather than do that, they will probably hire a consultant to design another media campaign to castigate former customers...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    I just read Westjet is expanding YYC yet again for the winter. New routes and more flights to the USA.
    I looked at YEG and could find nothing. In fact it looks like Montego Bay is gone too.
    So how is Westjet such a huge supporter of Edmonton again?
    They got a total of one extra flight per week to Manzanillo. That's not really "expanding". Meanwhile they cut a daily flight to London, ON, so actually they have a net loss of 6 flights per week.

    We lost Montego Bay but gained an additional flight to Puerto Vallarta, so we have no change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    People don't have infinite riches to select the most direct flight options, and people don't have infinite patience to fly longer routes simply to support YEG.
    And this is hitting the nail on the head. Not everybody has the ability to choose flights to just avoid Calgary. If a family on a tight budget wants to go to Disneyland and they can save hundreds by flying via Calgary, how can you blame them. Not their fault.

    I would choose to go direct as much as possible, and yes, avoid YYC, but really? Come on, at all costs?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX;454643/
    They got a total of one extra flight per week to Manzanillo. That's not really "expanding". Meanwhile they cut a daily flight to London, ON, so actually they have a net loss of 6 flights per week.
    No, that was just the new route announcement. They have also added a lot of flights to the USA and additional flights to other Mexican destinations from YYC. From YEG, nothing. Still not showing any Maui flights either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX;454643/
    They got a total of one extra flight per week to Manzanillo. That's not really "expanding". Meanwhile they cut a daily flight to London, ON, so actually they have a net loss of 6 flights per week.
    No, that was just the new route announcement. They have also added a lot of flights to the USA and additional flights to other Mexican destinations from YYC. From YEG, nothing. Still not showing any Maui flights either.
    Ok list them.

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    The auto manufacturing analogy is weak at best. The similarities between a manufacturer and an airport are what?

    EIA doesn't actually fly airplanes they just provide a place for them to land. Maybe they should just start an airline?

    Supporting Calgary's airport is not going to help our air service in any way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    People don't have infinite riches to select the most direct flight options, and people don't have infinite patience to fly longer routes simply to support YEG.
    One more time: connecting via YYC is longer. Connect to U.S. via YYC, you have to arrive, collect baggage, walk to U.S pre-clearance and clear within airline guidelines.

    HUGE WASTE OF TIME. Same on the way back. Going YYC, depending on where you go can cost you 1/2 day to overnight (X2 return). True.

    That, plus the terminal sux the big wazoo. Mind you, if you enjoy (fill-in-the-blank-with-some-backwater-town) shopping and eating experience airside - by all means, fly YYC.

    I don't - cause it sux - time-wise, comfort-wise, albiet with more frequent, but not much extra connections. Just a sucky airport with next to no connecting passenger comfort.

    Delusional Calgarians will deny it, but YYC among major airports is barely measurably better than YEG - and only if you have a really sensitive measuring device.

    Truth: if we had a non-stop to Cleveland, I'd have ten times the connecting choices I have via YYC.

    And infinitely longer routings? Which ones? Pray tell.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    People don't have infinite riches to select the most direct flight options, and people don't have infinite patience to fly longer routes simply to support YEG.
    One more time: connecting via YYC is longer. Connect to U.S. via YYC, you have to arrive, collect baggage, walk to U.S pre-clearance and clear within airline guidelines.

    HUGE WASTE OF TIME. Same on the way back. Going YYC, depending on where you go can cost you 1/2 day to overnight (X2 return). True.

    That, plus the terminal sux the big wazoo. Mind you, if you enjoy (fill-in-the-blank-with-some-backwater-town) shopping and eating experience airside - by all means, fly YYC.

    I don't - cause it sux - time-wise, comfort-wise, albiet with more frequent, but not much extra connections. Just a sucky airport with next to no connecting passenger comfort.

    Delusional Calgarians will deny it, but YYC among major airports is barely measurably better than YEG - and only if you have a really sensitive measuring device.

    Truth: if we had a non-stop to Cleveland, I'd have ten times the connecting choices I have via YYC.

    And infinitely longer routings? Which ones? Pray tell.
    So you wouldn't trade YEG for YYC?? I bet if YEG had what YYC has in terms of passenger traffic, connections and choices you wouldn't be complaining to much....If you didn't know they are building a new int'l terminal and after that renos to domestic side are planned. Our airport was not much better before. Most of the time people stop over for a few hours not days...great food and great shopping is not on top of mind for most people when stopping over at a airport for a few hours for the most part...most of the time they want to be able to just get on their next plane without any issues and reach their destination...seems like you want Taj Mahal inside the airport...this is the issue with most of us from YEG...complain complain complain about YYC...no wonder YYC supporters laugh at us

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    I should cite, so from their website, minus the Sorrentio opening at YEG in Sept ...airside food and shopping services (beverage at some not all):

    http://www.yyc.com/Default.aspx?cid=31&lang=1

    http://www.flyeia.com/airport_guide/..._security.aspx

    Make my day, spending 1/2 day to overnight to be loyal to YYC:

    (Note, for domestic connections, YVR is hardly better arside, YYZ good, but man, oh man costly!)

    By way of comparison (and in all cases via YEG and pre-clearance you would be a domestic U.S. pax):

    Connect via MSP: http://www.shopsatmsp.com/

    Connect via DEN: http://flydenver.com/foodshop

    Connect via Houston: http://www.fly2houston.com/iah-terminalMaps

    Okay, SEA: http://seatacshops.com/

    Well, maybe to a Calgarian SFO suxs: http://flysfo.com/web/page/as_airportmaps.htm

    All of the above, plus more can be reached non-stop by YEG.

    I should travel via YYC why again? Oh right, loyalty. They show us so much loyalty, I feel so guilty. Yeah.
    Last edited by McBoo; 24-07-2012 at 09:51 PM.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    ...no wonder YYC supporters laugh at us

    By all means laugh at us. Helps your cause so much ...
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    People don't have infinite riches to select the most direct flight options, and people don't have infinite patience to fly longer routes simply to support YEG.
    One more time: connecting via YYC is longer. Connect to U.S. via YYC, you have to arrive, collect baggage, walk to U.S pre-clearance and clear within airline guidelines.

    HUGE WASTE OF TIME. Same on the way back. Going YYC, depending on where you go can cost you 1/2 day to overnight (X2 return). True.

    That, plus the terminal sux the big wazoo. Mind you, if you enjoy (fill-in-the-blank-with-some-backwater-town) shopping and eating experience airside - by all means, fly YYC.

    I don't - cause it sux - time-wise, comfort-wise, albiet with more frequent, but not much extra connections. Just a sucky airport with next to no connecting passenger comfort.

    Delusional Calgarians will deny it, but YYC among major airports is barely measurably better than YEG - and only if you have a really sensitive measuring device.

    Truth: if we had a non-stop to Cleveland, I'd have ten times the connecting choices I have via YYC.

    And infinitely longer routings? Which ones? Pray tell.
    So you wouldn't trade YEG for YYC?? I bet if YEG had what YYC has in terms of passenger traffic, connections and choices you wouldn't be complaining to much....If you didn't know they are building a new int'l terminal and after that renos to domestic side are planned. Our airport was not much better before. Most of the time people stop over for a few hours not days...great food and great shopping is not on top of mind for most people when stopping over at a airport for a few hours for the most part...most of the time they want to be able to just get on their next plane without any issues and reach their destination...seems like you want Taj Mahal inside the airport...this is the issue with most of us from YEG...complain complain complain about YYC...no wonder YYC supporters laugh at us

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    I think one thing I'd like to see EIA consider is that it's a great alternative to transferring in Calgary, particularly to the U. S. It has many of the connections like Calgary has, and it has a U. S. Customs.

    The EIA, as we all know, is expanding capacity, particularly for international flights. The EIA is averaging nearly 100,000 transborder passengers a month. We're growing to record passenger numbers.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Still not showing any Maui flights either.
    Service increases to 3/week.

    http://westjet2.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=694

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    Nice, we took that flight last year and it was pretty full. Nice to see they increased it to 3 per week and saves you that time connecting in YVR or SFO. I guess Westjet does like YEG a little

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    I'm thinking of going to this fall via Seattle to Hawaii, flights are under 700 right now.

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    Is there a reason why HNL is not popular out of YEG?

  71. #271

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    HNL is popular destination ex YEG. AC tried a number of years ago...flts were full....no yield... it was full of aeroplan points holders and seat sales.

    Airlines will not run Aircraft for a loss. They will place it where it gets the best return, just like any other business. Believe it or not, AC is not responsible for YEGs lack of flights..its the economics of running an Airline in the 21st century. AC is not a nation builder anymore, or Airport builder, like it was 50 yrs ago. It has to be run safely, efficiently with strict cost control as it main focus. This is easily turned into AC hates YEG. AC has served and represented this "nation" admirably since 1937.

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    ^How do you know that it isn't? Just becasue WS didn't add a YEG-HNL flight doesn't doesn't mean that a flight isn't warranted. Anyways, i'm sure WS will provide connections via YYC to HNL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LO 044 View Post
    ^How do you know that it isn't? Just becasue WS didn't add a YEG-HNL flight doesn't doesn't mean that a flight isn't warranted. Anyways, i'm sure WS will provide connections via YYC to HNL.


    WestJet offers YYC-HNL/OGG and YEG-OGG
    Air Canada only offers YYC-HNL/OGG, no YEG

    But yes go ahead, try to make WestJet the bad guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by LO 044 View Post
    ^How do you know that it isn't? Just becasue WS didn't add a YEG-HNL flight doesn't doesn't mean that a flight isn't warranted. Anyways, i'm sure WS will provide connections via YYC to HNL.


    WestJet offers YYC-HNL/OGG and YEG-OGG
    Air Canada only offers YYC-HNL/OGG, no YEG

    But yes go ahead, try to make WestJet the bad guy
    What did i say that makes WestJet the bad guy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    HNL is popular destination ex YEG. AC tried a number of years ago...flts were full....no yield... it was full of aeroplan points holders and seat sales.

    Airlines will not run Aircraft for a loss. They will place it where it gets the best return, just like any other business. Believe it or not, AC is not responsible for YEGs lack of flights..its the economics of running an Airline in the 21st century. AC is not a nation builder anymore, or Airport builder, like it was 50 yrs ago. It has to be run safely, efficiently with strict cost control as it main focus. This is easily turned into AC hates YEG. AC has served and represented this "nation" admirably since 1937.

    And for some reason, residents in Calgary or Toronto do not collect Aeroplan miles and do no redeem points.

    I don't think that the average plane ticket from Calgary to HNL is that much more expensive than YEG. Or maybe you think that people in Calgary fly to HNL for business and pay expensive airfares....

  76. #276
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    ...we can talk in circles about what does what to whom and when until we are blue in the face.

    1. yeilds are a concern
    2. we did it to ourselves and it will take time to dig ourselves out of it
    3. while connecting in another market is still a connection, it is not a drivable connection like YYC
    4. leakage does hurt Edmonton's chances...but stop blaming people for doing what the market offers
    5. the solution is with Edmonton's offerings more than it is with the airport or airlines efforts or lack thereof
    Long...
    1. Yes...there are yeild concerns out of Edmonton - esp. in business class or frequency of a coach business traveller. It is not so bad as to ignore Edmonton...but the truth is that airlines do a lot of market analysis and will put their limited resources and iron on route pairs that make the most yeild...not just a good yeild. In some cases, we're not it.
    2. We have over a generation of established travel patterns that seem to indicate we prefer connecting anywhere. A 3 generation airport argument didn't help either...and the associated politics therein. Breaking this habit does not change overnight. Breaking this belief and operational option for airlines will take longer as they have spent billions deploying their route, market, and equipment strategies in one manner...
    3. Connections are connections, but they are connections to other hub cities with large business opportunities, capital investors, trade opportunities, and a gaggle of other airlines and destination choices far superior to Calgary can and in my opinion does trump a connection in Calgary that ends up in the same hub city anyway. i.e. I'd rather do YEG-ORD than YEG-YYC-ORD. Edmonton and North America have a few major cities that this happens in, and bully for us to get these direct. I don't care about the markets that Alberta as a whole cannot support (or barely)...but a JFK/LGA/EWR direct is surely missing here...
    4. It is hard to argue with those who do contribute to the "leakage" to Calgary, especially when (as typical of hub airports) you will see more seat sales on some marginal routes just to get capacity up. This can and does hurt our chances for that iron, especially from the driving crowd, but I refuse to villify the family of 4 that saves a few hundred to a couple thousand dollars on a trip by taking advantage of this and parking the car at grandma's/brother/friend's place for the week. Price inelasiticity is huge to the family person. This is not their fault, it is not the airport's fault, and in all honesty, it is the airlines every right to lower fares to fill seats on routes they have already paid to establish.
    5. Look seriously at our offerings. No one is going to fill a plane to come to the Muttart, Fringe, Heritage Days, CapExK-DaysRiverCityRouondUpEdFestival, or whatever. We need to be
      • hosting large scale conferences,
      • events aimed at attrracting the out of town dollar,
      • rewarding the businesses that work hard to attract the out of town visitor,
      • working with our communities to get more traffic to Jasper/valemount or Lloyd...or to Northern Alberta and the Territories, by being that focal point for their development...maybe this time actually be a true stepping stone to the Klondike
      • see if our other festivals can be expanded to attract more out of town dollars vs being solely aimed at locals. This is why I've worked so hard on Indy as it is the only internationally televised and sanctioned event that Edmonton has of this scale (and potential growth), that drives hotel bookings, rental cars, restaurants, etc. RWE is gathering the numbers now, and they are amazing in how much more income this little rag tag grouped helped create. Hint, you couldn't get a rental car this weekend, and rooms were hard to come by to not available at all. More to come once our report tot he city is released.
      • have large events like this in all 4 quarters. RWE is working on 3 right now, but we really need some certainty in location ASAP.
    Really fellow C2E'ers, you can argue the dynamics of the airline industry all you want. ...but until we start seriously looking inward ...all this discussion will be is circular to exhaustion. Villify the airlines and complain to the authority all you want...but until we get more to offer...you're really whipping the wrong people.
    President and CEO - Edmonton Airshow. Soon to rebrand to something global.

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    Yes so we get 1 additional flight per week to the USA on Westjet this winter. And we lose Montego Bay. In comparison to what Calgary is getting, we get are getting nothing! Somebody asked me to list them?
    Westjet is adding more flights from Calgary to Hawaii, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Los Cabos and Manzanillo. Something like 10 extra.
    Yeah I guess Westjet does like YEG a little. Very very little. What a joke.

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    You seem to really dislike WJ yet give AC a free pass, why is that?

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    When have I even mentioned AC? This has nothing to do with AC.
    This is purely about Westjet and how we are falling way behind. Look at the new flights? We get nothing from them yet Westjet is adding new routes and flights all over Canada but here. Brand new terminal will be fully functional soon.
    Maybe if AC was adding new flights and routes out of Calgary and not here, yeah same statements could be made. In fact I think AC has cut a lot from Calgary.
    So don't put words in my mouth. Read my posts clearly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    Yes so we get 1 additional flight per week to the USA on Westjet this winter. And we lose Montego Bay. In comparison to what Calgary is getting, we get are getting nothing! Somebody asked me to list them?
    Westjet is adding more flights from Calgary to Hawaii, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Los Cabos and Manzanillo. Something like 10 extra.
    Yeah I guess Westjet does like YEG a little. Very very little. What a joke.
    Again, I ask you to back it up with facts. Let's see actual numbers.

    Let's go with your ten for Calgary for a second. 10 new flights, minus 7 lost (London) equals a net gain of 3 flights. 3 flights from their largest hub and headquarters.

    We gained frequency to Puerto Vallarta +1 and Maui +1, but lost Montego Bay -1. We still gained one flight.

    3 for Calgary and 1 for Edmonton, both are minuscule, but saying WestJet treats Edmonton like a joke, is a joke. Seriously, think before you type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
    When have I even mentioned AC? This has nothing to do with AC.
    This is purely about Westjet and how we are falling way behind. Look at the new flights? We get nothing from them yet Westjet is adding new routes and flights all over Canada but here. Brand new terminal will be fully functional soon.
    Maybe if AC was adding new flights and routes out of Calgary and not here, yeah same statements could be made. In fact I think AC has cut a lot from Calgary.
    So don't put words in my mouth. Read my posts clearly.
    I just keep reading how WJ is treating YEG unfairly compared to YYC yet you somehow fail to mention how AC totally screws us over, but at any rate, I apoligize for putting words in your mouth regarding AC. Just curious, do you work in the industry?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JustYeggin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    HNL is popular destination ex YEG. AC tried a number of years ago...flts were full....no yield... it was full of aeroplan points holders and seat sales.

    Airlines will not run Aircraft for a loss. They will place it where it gets the best return, just like any other business. Believe it or not, AC is not responsible for YEGs lack of flights..its the economics of running an Airline in the 21st century. AC is not a nation builder anymore, or Airport builder, like it was 50 yrs ago. It has to be run safely, efficiently with strict cost control as it main focus. This is easily turned into AC hates YEG. AC has served and represented this "nation" admirably since 1937.

    And for some reason, residents in Calgary or Toronto do not collect Aeroplan miles and do no redeem points.

    I don't think that the average plane ticket from Calgary to HNL is that much more expensive than YEG. Or maybe you think that people in Calgary fly to HNL for business and pay expensive airfares....
    Valid point, however, Edmonton needed those cheap airfares to fill the flight up, YYC,YYZ etc are less price sensitive so the majority of the seats sold out of those cities are in the higher fare class.

  83. #283

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by JustYeggin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    HNL is popular destination ex YEG. AC tried a number of years ago...flts were full....no yield... it was full of aeroplan points holders and seat sales.

    Airlines will not run Aircraft for a loss. They will place it where it gets the best return, just like any other business. Believe it or not, AC is not responsible for YEGs lack of flights..its the economics of running an Airline in the 21st century. AC is not a nation builder anymore, or Airport builder, like it was 50 yrs ago. It has to be run safely, efficiently with strict cost control as it main focus. This is easily turned into AC hates YEG. AC has served and represented this "nation" admirably since 1937.

    And for some reason, residents in Calgary or Toronto do not collect Aeroplan miles and do no redeem points.

    I don't think that the average plane ticket from Calgary to HNL is that much more expensive than YEG. Or maybe you think that people in Calgary fly to HNL for business and pay expensive airfares....
    Valid point, however, Edmonton needed those cheap airfares to fill the flight up, YYC,YYZ etc are less price sensitive so the majority of the seats sold out of those cities are in the higher fare class.

    Not true. HNL is a low yield market, and most everybody on the flight is flying on discount fares, packages, etc.... regardless where they originate. Flights out of Calgary fill up with passengers connecting from YXE, YQR, YWG, and YEG (etc...) And by connecting passengers through YYC, you make the flight less profitable because of the through fares.

    That is why airlines love point to point flying.

    Do you have numbers to back up your theory about people in Calgary are prepared to pay more for HNL flights?

  84. #284

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    I am just one person..I have not and never will connect in Calgary ever...ever if we want flights in Edmonton to other destinations other then Calgary and Northern Canada please stop flying to Calgary. Period

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    Quote Originally Posted by rime ice View Post
    HNL is popular destination ex YEG. AC tried a number of years ago...flts were full....no yield... it was full of aeroplan points holders and seat sales.

    Airlines will not run Aircraft for a loss. They will place it where it gets the best return, just like any other business. Believe it or not, AC is not responsible for YEGs lack of flights..its the economics of running an Airline in the 21st century. AC is not a nation builder anymore, or Airport builder, like it was 50 yrs ago. It has to be run safely, efficiently with strict cost control as it main focus. This is easily turned into AC hates YEG. AC has served and represented this "nation" admirably since 1937.
    That's pretty funny considering that AC has a points program that it heavily promotes. AC wants to look like they have a reward program, they just don't want people to use the points that the earned.

  86. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    I am just one person..I have not and never will connect in Calgary ever...ever if we want flights in Edmonton to other destinations other then Calgary and Northern Canada please stop flying to Calgary. Period
    Oh please give it up! If it were to take same amount of time or less to reach your destination as connecting through another airport and it was cheaper to fly through Cgy than why wldn't a family fly through Cgy? Funny how some like you think avoiding YYC is really going to get us more flights.

  87. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    I am just one person..I have not and never will connect in Calgary ever...ever if we want flights in Edmonton to other destinations other then Calgary and Northern Canada please stop flying to Calgary. Period
    Oh please give it up! If it were to take same amount of time or less to reach your destination as connecting through another airport and it was cheaper to fly through Cgy than why wldn't a family fly through Cgy? Funny how some like you think avoiding YYC is really going to get us more flights.
    Yes

  88. #288

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    I think the effort is to get more people to consider flying through other hubs than Calgary, if it makes sense, not out of spite. Right now a lot of people default to Calgary out of habit. Case in point, last week a couple of my friends booked tickets to Germany and ONLY considered the YYC->FRA flight even though the ultimate destination is Berlin. I elected to take the direct to LHR and it's actually going to end up faster and cheaper by a few hundred bucks. That is why the campaign is telling people to "kick the Calgary habit", not "waste your time and money to prove a point."

    Now, there are some people who are willing to spend more time and money as a strategic decision to strengthen our airport, and I applaud the effort as well. Not everyone is in the position to do that, but everyone is in the position to evaluate all their choices, especially our direct routes to other hubs.

    Also one other consideration to make is that I find it to be a lot more comfortable to connect in a hub further away than Calgary, only because it breaks up the flights more evenly. Especially on the way home, I hate sitting through a long flight almost getting to Edmonton, only to have to wait around in Calgary. And on the way to the US I prefer to clear customs in Edmonton instead of rushing the ridiculously long trek in Calgary. That's worth quite a few bucks to me.
    Last edited by bolo; 25-07-2012 at 08:51 PM.

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    I am just one person..I have not and never will connect in Calgary ever...ever if we want flights in Edmonton to other destinations other then Calgary and Northern Canada please stop flying to Calgary. Period
    Oh please give it up! If it were to take same amount of time or less to reach your destination as connecting through another airport and it was cheaper to fly through Cgy than why wldn't a family fly through Cgy? Funny how some like you think avoiding YYC is really going to get us more flights.
    Yes
    See Post 263 and provide citations to support this loser Calgary argument.

    Heard this argument - haven't yet seen ONE citation of evidence. Not ONE. Please cite reputable sources .. a URL or two would be nice.

    Seriously.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Airline considers new Alberta to Arizona flights

    Allegiant Air, based in Las Vegas, is kicking around the idea of expanding its borders. That could open the way for direct links for sun worshippers to fly from Alberta to Arizona vacation spots.

    Allegiant now has a fleet of 4 larger aircraft because of trips to Hawaii.

    "In order to fly to Honolulu we had to get some certifications from the FAA," Allegiant Air spokeswoman Jessica Wheeler says. "Now that we have those certifications we would be cleared by the FAA to fly international."

    "Our president and CEO both have talked publicly on earnings calls about our intentions to look at foreign destinations, particularly Canada Mexico and possibly the Caribbean."
    http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg...medium=twitter

  91. #291

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    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PhiFly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TJFA View Post
    I am just one person..I have not and never will connect in Calgary ever...ever if we want flights in Edmonton to other destinations other then Calgary and Northern Canada please stop flying to Calgary. Period
    Oh please give it up! If it were to take same amount of time or less to reach your destination as connecting through another airport and it was cheaper to fly through Cgy than why wldn't a family fly through Cgy? Funny how some like you think avoiding YYC is really going to get us more flights.
    Yes
    I show the Calgary airport and the airlines that made it their hub the same respect they show us..why would I get on a propellor plane fly to Calgary and still be no closer to my final destination. Airlines thinking of moving into the Alberta market look at the fact I will fly to Calgary in order to take their flight, so why come to Edmonton..I myself will not help the Calgary airport statistics and passanger count..if I stop in Calgary in both directions I just added 2 passengers/flights in and 2 out while Edmonton recieved 1 and 1, I only speak for myself if they want my money fly out of Edmonton and not just a 30 min flight to Calgary

  92. #292
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    YEG needs to lower (abolish) its AIF if it wants to attract US low cost carriers.

  93. #293
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    I think the AIF could be lower but how does the it hinder getting those types of flights?

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    The reason why no US low cost airlines fly to Canada is because of the high taxes and fees. If Edmonton lowered the portion it controls, it could buck the trend and attract Spirit or Southwest or Allegiant as an alternative to the more expensive airports like Calgary and Vancouver.

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    I see your point but wouldn't lowering the landing fee be a better alternative for the carriers as the AIF isn't really a concern to their pricing (as it is added afterwards).

    Adding $10 or $25 afterwards for the AIF isn't going to sway a passenger as they are mostly concerned with the airfare price (and luggage fees) imo.

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    You won't see an abolition of the AIF, and a don't think they will reduce this anyway. They have a new terminal to pay for...

    Given that all airports charge an AIF, I agree with Hilman on this one...it is not a determiner or a delimiter on a decision....
    President and CEO - Edmonton Airshow. Soon to rebrand to something global.

  97. #297

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    Quote:
    Airline considers new Alberta to Arizona flights

    Allegiant Air, based in Las Vegas, is kicking around the idea of expanding its borders. That could open the way for direct links for sun worshippers to fly from Alberta to Arizona vacation spots.

    Allegiant now has a fleet of 4 larger aircraft because of trips to Hawaii.

    "In order to fly to Honolulu we had to get some certifications from the FAA," Allegiant Air spokeswoman Jessica Wheeler says. "Now that we have those certifications we would be cleared by the FAA to fly international."

    "Our president and CEO both have talked publicly on earnings calls about our intentions to look at foreign destinations, particularly Canada Mexico and possibly the Caribbean."
    http://www.inews880.com/Channels/Reg...medium=twitter

    Allegiant primarily serves underserved airports, so it would make sense that they would come to Edmonton rather than Calgary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    You won't see an abolition of the AIF, and a don't think they will reduce this anyway. They have a new terminal to pay for...

    Given that all airports charge an AIF, I agree with Hilman on this one...it is not a determiner or a delimiter on a decision....

    My feelings also. And don't forget, some time in the future a parallel runway will be built. That won't be cheap.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

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    Allegient Air already flies a charter from YEG to Laughlin, hopefully they can add a few more flights
    Last edited by Hilman; 26-07-2012 at 11:14 AM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    My feelings also. And don't forget, some time in the future a parallel runway will be built. That won't be cheap.
    And that third runway is sooooo unnecessary... London-Heathrow and Hong Kong both operate with 2 runways.

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