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Thread: Air Service Development, Routes, and carrier conversations

  1. #3301

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    ^ I once did Clareview - EIA in 67. End to end of our rapid transit. Then the flight was 45 minutes late.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  2. #3302

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    UGH! I was in Vietnam. FBO is really hurting
    " The strength of a man is in the stride he walks."

  3. #3303
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    My wife just got back from Vietnam.

  4. #3304

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    Hopefully the weather was good where she was. It rained so much where I was.

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    I don't think so. She just complained about the heat. The Can Tho area south of Saigon.

  6. #3306

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    Quote Originally Posted by Escondido View Post
    I wonder what would trigger United to restore SFO, ORD and (dare I dream!) EWR? I don't really understand why they dropped them all. Since they're the "incumbent" carrier, I wonder if DL, AA and AS are more hesitant to invade the space, or if this is a great opportunity for them to pick up the routes and establish their domination. I'd be surprised if AA moved in though, because they seem to be quite Edmonton averse. US Airways made YEG-PHX work year round, yet AA only offers it seasonally.
    $100 oil + 100˘ dollar = the only chance United comes back. And even then, only while it lasts. (to Newark in particular. )

    AA shouldn't be Edmonton averse from Chicago. They de-emphasised Phoenix as a hub after the merger, but Chicago (and onward) is still a strong hub plus a strong local Edmonton need.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    If AA would add Chicago (and Dallas), then the American/Alaska cooperative would offer great US competition to Delta and United. Right now, it's tough to be loyal to Alaska with only service to Seattle, and it's even tougher to be loyal to American with only seasonal service to Phoenix.

  8. #3308

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    ^AA at Dallas, while a spectacular global hub, isn't that competitive for us just due to geography:

    • To Europe, it can't compete with Iceland or Amsterdam.
    • To Asia or the West Coast, it's far from ideal against Vancouver or Seattle.
    • To Eastern North America it can't compete against Toronto (but AA at Chicago can).
    • To the hotspot resorts of Mexico and the Caribbean it can't compete with non-stop, non-immigration, low-margin charter flights.

    Even for whatever demand we have to Texas and Latin America, we still have United to Denver and Houston, and they're well entrenched.

    So, AA to Chicago, hopefully, but Dallas, meh.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  9. #3309

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    Thought I should have cross-posted this wishlist from the traffic thread which kicked off the above discussion with Escondido:

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ I'd agree this is the bottom of total traffic. Plateau or upwards from here.

    Much more concerned with transborder destinations than total traffic. Us being non-priority for either national airline left us way way way out in the cold when the Dollar fell.

    Wish we could get:

    1. AA to Chicago
    2. Alaska/Virgin to San Francisco
    3. Delta to New York


    United was just too handy to all three, but we essentially have no domestic Star Alliance partner with an interest in our market.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    No question. They seem to be looking at the routes they fly. Then adding "new" flights that they never at any time had interest in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^AA at Dallas, while a spectacular global hub, isn't that competitive for us just due to geography:

    • To Europe, it can't compete with Iceland or Amsterdam.
    • To Asia or the West Coast, it's far from ideal against Vancouver or Seattle.
    • To Eastern North America it can't compete against Toronto (but AA at Chicago can).
    • To the hotspot resorts of Mexico and the Caribbean it can't compete with non-stop, non-immigration, low-margin charter flights.

    Even for whatever demand we have to Texas and Latin America, we still have United to Denver and Houston, and they're well entrenched.

    So, AA to Chicago, hopefully, but Dallas, meh.
    Good points. This just means that trying to be loyal to any American airline is tough. Not having DFW makes flying AA difficult. Also, it seems that if AA can fly YYC-DFW (2x Daily) as well as WestJet flying YYC-DFW Seasonally 1x Daily, there must be some demand from Alberta.

  12. #3312

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    ^ oh sure, but the ties between Calgary and Texas are very different than ours here.

    Very true too, what you said about it being hard to pick just one U.S. airline. That is if it weren't United...
    Let's make Edmonton better.

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    Default WOW air has purchased seven new planes, aims at doubling its operations in next few years

    The Icelandic budget airline WOW air has purchased seven new aircraft, including four jumbo-jets which could allow WOW to fly direct to destinations in Asia. Skúli Mogensen, the CEO and owner of WOW air told the local news TV station Stöđ 2 that the company aims at doubling the number of passengers in the next couple of years.
    http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/w...next-few-years
    Would be nice to see a truly LCC at YEG. I feel I price sensitive market could do well.
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    With around 9,500 passengers connecting via Reykjavik/Keflavik in 2016 between Heathrow and Edmonton, it is the leading city pair which operates via Iceland between the UK and North America.
    http://www.anna.aero/2017/03/30/traf...ion-milestone/

  15. #3315

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    Nice
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    Impressive numbers.
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    So 9,575 divided by 52 = 184 passengers per week from LHR to YEG via Icelandair. Or are the statistics measuring traffic in both directions?

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    According to Google Flights: flights.google.com the top flights from Edmonton are to:
    Las Vegas
    Pheonix
    Ottawa
    Chicago
    Sydney, Australia
    Kelowna
    Victoria
    Montreal
    Orlando, Florida
    Boston
    Honolulu

    Can anyone confirm they are seeing the same thing from Google Flights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    According to Google Flights: flights.google.com the top flights from Edmonton are to:
    Las Vegas
    Pheonix
    Ottawa
    Chicago
    Sydney, Australia
    Kelowna
    Victoria
    Montreal
    Orlando, Florida
    Boston
    Honolulu

    Can anyone confirm they are seeing the same thing from Google Flights?
    Based on what? Obviously more people fly to Vancouver than Boston.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Jackson View Post
    According to Google Flights: flights.google.com the top flights from Edmonton are to:
    Las Vegas
    Pheonix
    Ottawa
    Chicago
    Sydney, Australia
    Kelowna
    Victoria
    Montreal
    Orlando, Florida
    Boston
    Honolulu

    Can anyone confirm they are seeing the same thing from Google Flights?
    This is simply google's algorithm trying to guess where you'd like to go. It is not statistical data.

  21. #3321
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    Bingo.

    Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary
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    Looks like Air Canada is running a flight to LA today. AC7040 to LAX departing at 13:00. Must be a one off thing for Oilers fans?

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    Said it was Gate 82 so assumed it wasn't the Oilers charter itself but maybe it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Base View Post
    Looks like Air Canada is running a flight to LA today. AC7040 to LAX departing at 13:00. Must be a one off thing for Oilers fans?

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    I would say the Oilers, the last two flights of this flight number were to San Jose https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA7040

    The plane's ID number is also part of the Air Canada Jetz which is used to charter teams around https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/c-gbik



    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada_Jetz
    Last edited by Hilman; 25-04-2017 at 09:04 AM.

  25. #3325

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    I believe there might be two flights similar to 2006.

    One with the team on Jetz and the other one is the family and sponsor flight.

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    https://www.thestar.com/business/201...ce-routes.html

    Westjet orders Dreamliners for long haul routes.
    Could be a few years, but we could see a WJ 787 here in Edmonton. I wonder what they'll focus on? central europe? middle east? South america? More hawaii flights? Asia?

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    So if Westjet wants to join the big leagues they need to join an alliance - I am assuming One World?

    This would allow them to look at routes that compliment their alliance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    So if Westjet wants to join the big leagues they need to join an alliance - I am assuming One World?

    This would allow them to look at routes that compliment their alliance?
    I would guess SkyTeam. They've been friendlier with Delta lately and have ended their codeshare agreement with British Airways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nobleea View Post
    https://www.thestar.com/business/201...ce-routes.html

    Westjet orders Dreamliners for long haul routes.
    Could be a few years, but we could see a WJ 787 here in Edmonton. I wonder what they'll focus on? central europe? middle east? South america? More hawaii flights? Asia?
    Just a thought....CP and Canadian flew to Fiji, New Zealand and Australia.It seems there is a market AC is not touching.
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    AC flying to Australia already - just started Melbourne recently.

    I would hope WestJet may try the Asian market but do they want to go full business class which means joining an alliance and competing directly with AC

  31. #3331

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    Westjet YEG to LGW would be amazing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Westjet YEG to LGW would be amazing.
    Except WestJet does not give a **** about Edmonton...it's a frenemy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Westjet YEG to LGW would be amazing.
    Don't we already have this flight??

  34. #3334
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    ^ We do. I was on it last year.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    AC flying to Australia already - just started Melbourne recently.
    Not with a routing as Canadian/CP had with Nadi via Hawaii. Asia, is well served along with Japan and the far East.Tahiti and Bora Bora are 2 more that could be marketed. But what the hell...There's always Mexico......Right?
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  36. #3336
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    Air Transat adds new nonstop sectors for W17

    Canadian carrier airtransat in winter 2017/18 season is adding several new nonstop sectors to sun destinations, including Florida, Mexico and the Caribbean. Planned new sectors as follow. Note operational date listed above is based on departure from Canada.

    Edmonton – Huatulco 18DEC17 – 05MAR18 1 weekly A310
    Montreal – San Juan 24DEC17 – 22APR18 1 weekly 737-800
    Montreal – Santo Domingo 23DEC17 – 21APR18 1 weekly 737-800
    Montreal – Tampa 18FEB18 – 29APR18 1 weekly 737-800
    Ottawa – Samana 22DEC17 – 06APR18 1 weekly 737-800
    Sault Ste. Marie – Punta Cana 22DEC17 – 05APR18 1 weekly 737
    Toronto – Fort-de-France 21DEC17 – 11JAN18 1 weekly 737-800
    Toronto – San Juan 24DEC17 – 22APR18 1 weekly 737
    Toronto – Tampa 18FEB18 – 29APR18 1 weekly 737-800
    Vancouver – Punta Cana 10NOV17 – 27APR18 1 weekly A310
    Vancouver – Varadero – Santa Clara – Vancouver 13NOV17 – 26MAR18 1 weekly A310 and/or A330-200
    Windsor – Samana 28DEC17 – 22MAR18 1 weekly 737-800


    http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/...ctors-for-w17/

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    This might be the wrong thread but we're flying to Glasgow in August via Icelandair. Never been to Europe before and never flown Icelandair before. How are they?

  38. #3338

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    I fly Icelandair every 3-5 months & generally have a pleasant experience. Keflavik is not the greatest on the Europe -> Canada stretch due to the massive amount of people typically jammed into one end of the terminal, all catching planes in short order, but it's a short time of standing around. Last time I was there there were 7 flights all departing in a 45 minute window.

    On the Canada -> Europe legs I typically have enough time to get to my gate, fire off some quick emails to let people know I made it to Iceland OK & then onto my connecting flight.
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    Did Edm-Paris through Kef and it was a good experience. I would echo the above with regards to a small and cramped airport, but it is certainly manageable and overall very simple.
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    We (my wife and 2 children) have flown to Glasgow twice, using Icelandair, no issues. One time we had a 30 min connection but icelandair ensures you make it. It was almost like flying nonstop. Plus they usually have the cheapest fares.

    We have also used them for all their other UK destinations except Birmingham and have never had a problem.

  41. #3341

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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    We (my wife and 2 children) have flown to Glasgow twice, using Icelandair, no issues. One time we had a 30 min connection but icelandair ensures you make it. It was almost like flying nonstop. Plus they usually have the cheapest fares.

    We have also used them for all their other UK destinations except Birmingham and have never had a problem.
    Only thing with Iceland Air, are they normally nearly double what the other options are? Looking at YEG to various points in Europe and around $2300 pp while other carriers are around $1400.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    We (my wife and 2 children) have flown to Glasgow twice, using Icelandair, no issues. One time we had a 30 min connection but icelandair ensures you make it. It was almost like flying nonstop. Plus they usually have the cheapest fares.

    We have also used them for all their other UK destinations except Birmingham and have never had a problem.
    Only thing with Iceland Air, are they normally nearly double what the other options are? Looking at YEG to various points in Europe and around $2300 pp while other carriers are around $1400.
    They are more expensive now than they used to be. Significantly so at times. Booking when you see a deal is prudent.

    The good thing about the UK flights is you can play around with the different airports if you are renting a car anyway. Also flying into one city and out of another has saved us a lot of money in the past. Usually Glasgow and London Gatwick have been the cheapest.

  43. #3343

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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    We (my wife and 2 children) have flown to Glasgow twice, using Icelandair, no issues. One time we had a 30 min connection but icelandair ensures you make it. It was almost like flying nonstop. Plus they usually have the cheapest fares.

    We have also used them for all their other UK destinations except Birmingham and have never had a problem.
    Only thing with Iceland Air, are they normally nearly double what the other options are? Looking at YEG to various points in Europe and around $2300 pp while other carriers are around $1400.
    They are more expensive now than they used to be. Significantly so at times. Booking when you see a deal is prudent.

    The good thing about the UK flights is you can play around with the different airports if you are renting a car anyway. Also flying into one city and out of another has saved us a lot of money in the past. Usually Glasgow and London Gatwick have been the cheapest.

    If it is the London area you are heading to, then "mixing and matching" the airports has worked for me too - eg. into Heathrow and out of Gatwick and vice versa.

    Friends of mine have also found Icelandair to Paris to be a competitively-priced gateway to Europe on a few occasions.

  44. #3344

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    Quote Originally Posted by happydays View Post
    Only thing with Iceland Air, are they normally nearly double what the other options are? Looking at YEG to various points in Europe and around $2300 pp while other carriers are around $1400.
    They fill up fast & if you're looking for a good chunk of summer to early fall there's precious few seats left this year, especially in Economy. My wife is flying a couple notches higher in fare/class than usual for her summer trip back to Edmonton. On the plus side, it means she can bring more here than she can take back, continuing the slow migration of stuff from Sweden to Canada. On the downside, it's pricey as heck.
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    We flew Edmonton to Paris on Iceland Air for under $500/per last fall. Lots of deals, but gotta be flexible and certainly not for the summer or other prime travel dates.
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    Well I booked awhile ago, March I think, and only spent $1100 per person. We're going for two weeks in early August. Flying into Glasgow and back home out of Heathrow.

  47. #3347

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    Pulled a bunch of my tickets last night. My wife & I have flown YEG<->KEF<->ARN anywhere from $700 to $1850 round trip, $750 being way off season (Feb) and $1850 being this summer with one direction being in "Economy Comfort".
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  48. #3348

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    The two us flew September 22 to October 9 last fall on Icelandair YEG-KEF-CPH return with a two night stop in Reykjavik for $1,009.00 CDN all-in.

  49. #3349
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man From YEG View Post
    The two us flew September 22 to October 9 last fall on Icelandair YEG-KEF-CPH return with a two night stop in Reykjavik for $1,009.00 CDN all-in.
    Cheap and quick. Works for me.

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    We fly to Germany with Iceland a lot. This year the flight in September mid week was near fully booked when we booked mid May. They are doing alright if they're filling that plan in May during off season.

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    Was fortunate to have spent three weeks in Italy and did the YEG - AMS - FCO run with KLM. The 330-200 out of Edmonton still has the old business class seats but the service was top notch. Our flight to Rome was an easy Connection with a 737-800/900.

    Returning back today on the AMS -YEG leg the captain actually came out and spend some time conversing with the passengers. Really cool and a nice guy. He enjoyed the Edmonton run - I asked him if there will be an increase in flights and he said it was a combination of metal, staffing and loads. what was funny was he mentioned the KLM Calgary WEM advertising scenario and pointed out the competition we had between our city and Calgary. I said yes it is intense at times. So he did the run today then has a couple of days off then does the run back I assume. Anyways a really nice chance to talk to the captain
    Last edited by Rocket252; 27-05-2017 at 08:13 PM.

  52. #3352

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    ^Depending on their schedule, flight crews will have between 2 and 5 days in YEG. My flight attendant friend regularly comes to Edmonton with 2-3 days off for a nice visit.
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    ORD back please and thank you. Flew back last night and what a PITA through YYC. Such an important HUB.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ORD back please and thank you. Flew back last night and what a PITA through YYC. Such an important HUB.
    No [email protected]#$%*n' kidding...just because the **** kickers to the South can't fill their own birds......

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    Sigh...

    Again...it has less to do with Calgary not filling its slots and more to do with Calgary (as a city overall) being more aggressive and risk taking to secure these flights. Add the fact that airlines are rather reluctant to change established patterns given the high costs...and you get the scenario here.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    I haven't set foot in YYC for over a decade. My Canadian flight connections, are either YVR or TO.

    I can't stand those teeny beeny commuter planes that connect between yyc and yeg. At least from yvr you get a bigger plane with more leg room.
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    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.

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    Indeed the silence from EIA regarding efforts for new passenger routes is frightening and a business killer for the Edmonton Region.

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    ^ I agree - not only business but tourism and creating an identity for Edmonton globally. I have to chuckle when city council debates whether to reinstate the city of champions sign. There are bigger issues here.

    A viable airport with adequate air connections is the number one issue as far as I am concerned and since this is a civic election year a good question to pose to our candidates.

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    NOTHING is more critical to the Edmonton Region than securing non-stop flights.

  61. #3361

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    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.

  62. #3362

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.
    There have been a lot of complaints about the layout of the Calgary airport after its recent expansion, both by airlines and passengers. Edmonton's layout is more passenger friendly and more than a few people have said they will avoid Calgary in the future because of the problems there.

    Banff is getting more and more congested and I suspect international travelers, many who are looking for a real wilderness experience, will probably start to avoid it too. Those oil company head offices in Calgary haven't been doing so well lately. I am sure their travel budgets have been slashed and it was also recently announced that business travel to Calgary is way down - hotel vacancy is way up. Therefore, it is not inevitable that YYC will grow at the rate it has in the past, in fact there are many reasons to suspect it will not.

    As Edmonton continues to grow, its airport is well positioned for more travelers in the future.

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    ^ I would like to agree with you but the hub and spoke model is firmly entrenched by both major airlines and they have no reason to change.

    We have not seen any major new routes by AC or Westjet and the US airlines have their own priorities.

    Even Tuffly has been silent.

  64. #3364

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    Yes, as Edmonton grows we will definitely see increased traffic numbers on an absolute basis, but relative to Calgary the negative divergence on a relative scale (YYC outpacing EIA) will only increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.
    There have been a lot of complaints about the layout of the Calgary airport after its recent expansion, both by airlines and passengers. Edmonton's layout is more passenger friendly and more than a few people have said they will avoid Calgary in the future because of the problems there.

    Banff is getting more and more congested and I suspect international travelers, many who are looking for a real wilderness experience, will probably start to avoid it too. Those oil company head offices in Calgary haven't been doing so well lately. I am sure their travel budgets have been slashed and it was also recently announced that business travel to Calgary is way down - hotel vacancy is way up. Therefore, it is not inevitable that YYC will grow at the rate it has in the past, in fact there are many reasons to suspect it will not.

    As Edmonton continues to grow, its airport is well positioned for more travelers in the future.

  65. #3365

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Yes, as Edmonton grows we will definitely see increased traffic numbers on an absolute basis, but relative to Calgary the negative divergence on a relative scale (YYC outpacing EIA) will only increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.
    There have been a lot of complaints about the layout of the Calgary airport after its recent expansion, both by airlines and passengers. Edmonton's layout is more passenger friendly and more than a few people have said they will avoid Calgary in the future because of the problems there.

    Banff is getting more and more congested and I suspect international travelers, many who are looking for a real wilderness experience, will probably start to avoid it too. Those oil company head offices in Calgary haven't been doing so well lately. I am sure their travel budgets have been slashed and it was also recently announced that business travel to Calgary is way down - hotel vacancy is way up. Therefore, it is not inevitable that YYC will grow at the rate it has in the past, in fact there are many reasons to suspect it will not.

    As Edmonton continues to grow, its airport is well positioned for more travelers in the future.
    Calgary's strength as a business centre relies a lot on the oil and gas sector. With oil prices at half of the level they were a few years ago, a lot of sizzle has been taken out of their economy.

    I think the airlines will realize the demand for business travel in Calgary is not what it once was and that will make eventually the choice between Alberta's two largest airports more not less equal as the cities have otherwise have fairly similar populations.

  66. #3366

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    I disagree. Calgary is still an economic powerhouse with over 100 headquarters including some of the largest oil and gas companies in North America, the largest pipeline company in North America, as well as strong national companies like CP Rail, Westjet, as well as regional head offices of national and international companies. It is also has a much more sophisticated financial centre than Edmonton, with offices of all the global investment banks in calgary along with the requisite legal support. Business travel in Calgary is a much much bigger market than Edmonton, even taking into consideration the slump in oil prices.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Yes, as Edmonton grows we will definitely see increased traffic numbers on an absolute basis, but relative to Calgary the negative divergence on a relative scale (YYC outpacing EIA) will only increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.
    There have been a lot of complaints about the layout of the Calgary airport after its recent expansion, both by airlines and passengers. Edmonton's layout is more passenger friendly and more than a few people have said they will avoid Calgary in the future because of the problems there.

    Banff is getting more and more congested and I suspect international travelers, many who are looking for a real wilderness experience, will probably start to avoid it too. Those oil company head offices in Calgary haven't been doing so well lately. I am sure their travel budgets have been slashed and it was also recently announced that business travel to Calgary is way down - hotel vacancy is way up. Therefore, it is not inevitable that YYC will grow at the rate it has in the past, in fact there are many reasons to suspect it will not.

    As Edmonton continues to grow, its airport is well positioned for more travelers in the future.
    Calgary's strength as a business centre relies a lot on the oil and gas sector. With oil prices at half of the level they were a few years ago, a lot of sizzle has been taken out of their economy.

    I think the airlines will realize the demand for business travel in Calgary is not what it once was and that will make eventually the choice between Alberta's two largest airports more not less equal as the cities have otherwise have fairly similar populations.

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    ^ makes me want to move to Calgary ��
    The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes then steal your dreams.
    It's heaven and hell!

  68. #3368

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    Hey at least we have the lions share of muscial concerts...until Calgary gets its act together and builds a new arena...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill View Post
    ^ makes me want to move to Calgary ��

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    I would trade the flights for the concerts any day.

  70. #3370

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    I disagree. Calgary is still an economic powerhouse with over 100 headquarters including some of the largest oil and gas companies in North America, the largest pipeline company in North America, as well as strong national companies like CP Rail, Westjet, as well as regional head offices of national and international companies. It is also has a much more sophisticated financial centre than Edmonton, with offices of all the global investment banks in calgary along with the requisite legal support. Business travel in Calgary is a much much bigger market than Edmonton, even taking into consideration the slump in oil prices.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Yes, as Edmonton grows we will definitely see increased traffic numbers on an absolute basis, but relative to Calgary the negative divergence on a relative scale (YYC outpacing EIA) will only increase

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    EIA can not compete against YYC. Our lack of Banff and corporate headquarters conspires against us. Besides the spoke and hub business model favored by the incumbent Canadian airlines is a structural impediment we can not penetrate. We will always trail Calgary, and this will only get worse over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    Things are rough at EIA and I am not sure if we will see any improvement as far as new flights in the near future.

    As YYC gets stronger we get less routes.
    There have been a lot of complaints about the layout of the Calgary airport after its recent expansion, both by airlines and passengers. Edmonton's layout is more passenger friendly and more than a few people have said they will avoid Calgary in the future because of the problems there.

    Banff is getting more and more congested and I suspect international travelers, many who are looking for a real wilderness experience, will probably start to avoid it too. Those oil company head offices in Calgary haven't been doing so well lately. I am sure their travel budgets have been slashed and it was also recently announced that business travel to Calgary is way down - hotel vacancy is way up. Therefore, it is not inevitable that YYC will grow at the rate it has in the past, in fact there are many reasons to suspect it will not.

    As Edmonton continues to grow, its airport is well positioned for more travelers in the future.
    Calgary's strength as a business centre relies a lot on the oil and gas sector. With oil prices at half of the level they were a few years ago, a lot of sizzle has been taken out of their economy.

    I think the airlines will realize the demand for business travel in Calgary is not what it once was and that will make eventually the choice between Alberta's two largest airports more not less equal as the cities have otherwise have fairly similar populations.
    But my argument isn't that Edmonton will overtake Calgary in the level of air service any time soon, it is that the the gap will narrow. The number of offices there is not the relevant factor. The current economic environment is different than it was several years ago so business travel to and from Calgary has diminished considerably. The number of offices is not the issue. They may remain there, but staffing is reduced or travel costs have to be reduced because of the economy.

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    Diminished is an understatement. There will be zero growth in head office jobs in the energy sector. International firms are still bailing on Canada - and Calgary will bear the brunt of it. Just how many International firms have much a presence left in the Oil Sands or for that matter anywhere in Canada - a fraction of what to was a decade ago. I imagine the pipeline brouhaha about to unfold will make international headlines and paint Alberta badly and finger Calgary as particularly evil. Not the best place to be located and operating in a world marching toward a green future ... well except for the good old USA.
    Last edited by EdmTrekker; 01-06-2017 at 09:49 PM.

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    Dollar bills. Others will return.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

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    WestJet seeks Transport Canada approval to offer China flights
    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/c...ghts-1.4144556

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    I hope they have non stop from Edmonton in mind as well.

  75. #3375

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    Is anyone else worried that Westjet may be stretching itself too far? I mean, growth and diversification is good for business, but isn't Westjet starting operations on too many fronts? (Those fronts being a new ULCC Canadian brand, as well as European flights)
    "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." - Dalai Lama

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    The world is getting smaller every day. They are a growing company and have always been managed quite well so I'm not too worried. Some of their plans are over a period of time plus a lot of new planes now are payments to the manufacturer, like a lease so they may not be stretching much for the Dreamliners.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 05-06-2017 at 01:05 AM.

  77. #3377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I hope they have non stop from Edmonton in mind as well.
    I would say the chances are between slim and none and slim has just left town.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I would have to agree - They will be deployed in Vancouver and Toronto - maybe Calgary

  80. #3380

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    ^they might (?) decide to bypass Vancouver. There are already a lot of flights from Asia that arrive in Vancouver, and then fly on to Toronto or NYC (often alternating, one day Toronto, one day NYC). You could instead have direct to Calgary, then on-flight to NYC or Toronto (or maybe some other options like Chicago / Boston). It could alternate to go via Edmonton sometimes also, I expect a direct China flight might sweep many in the expat community then (although that's often Hong Kong).
    Last edited by moahunter; 05-06-2017 at 11:10 AM.

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    Edmonton is on their map of potential future routes, but it is not clear enough to see where those routes are.


    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBQ0QRcUAAA1pga.jpg:large

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    I think it's perfectly clear there is not a line going from YEG to Asia.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    No lines that I can see - looks like a line to London which is what we have now. Again Vancouver and Toronto are going to get most of the long hauls while Calgary gets one because it is the WestJet base.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    No lines that I can see - looks like a line to London which is what we have now. Again Vancouver and Toronto are going to get most of the long hauls while Calgary gets one because it is the WestJet base.
    Edmonton to London is not a potential route. It is an existing one.

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    I think even a route that goes something like Edmonton-Vancouver-Asian City would be great.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    No lines that I can see - looks like a line to London which is what we have now. Again Vancouver and Toronto are going to get most of the long hauls while Calgary gets one because it is the WestJet base.
    Edmonton to London is not a potential route. It is an existing one.
    I don't see any flights ... what days of the week is WJ flying to LGW? When does the season end? We looked did not see them listed so flying Icelandair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    No lines that I can see - looks like a line to London which is what we have now. Again Vancouver and Toronto are going to get most of the long hauls while Calgary gets one because it is the WestJet base.
    Edmonton to London is not a potential route. It is an existing one.
    I don't see any flights ... what days of the week is WJ flying to LGW? When does the season end? We looked did not see them listed so flying Icelandair.
    Mondays and Saturdays are the non stops.
    Last edited by metro; 05-06-2017 at 06:44 PM. Reason: More info

  88. #3388
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatestX View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocket252 View Post
    No lines that I can see - looks like a line to London which is what we have now. Again Vancouver and Toronto are going to get most of the long hauls while Calgary gets one because it is the WestJet base.
    Edmonton to London is not a potential route. It is an existing one.
    I don't see any flights ... what days of the week is WJ flying to LGW? When does the season end? We looked did not see them listed so flying Icelandair.
    it is only for June and July. A very short seasonal flight.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    I believe end of June to early September.

  90. #3390
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    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    I believe end of June to early September.
    Yes of course what was I thinking?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    I believe end of June to early September.
    Yes of course what was I thinking?
    I only know that because we have family using the flight in august. A horrible short season. I have emailed westjet to complain. We were hoping to use it this October and at Christmas.

  92. #3392

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    I can't tell where the lines are going so good on you guys who can see where the lines lead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    I can't tell where the lines are going so good on you guys who can see where the lines lead!
    Zoom in on the map: https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...work-plan.aspx

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmTrekker View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    I can't tell where the lines are going so good on you guys who can see where the lines lead!
    Zoom in on the map: https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...work-plan.aspx
    Wrong thread

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    Not much of a change, but will be interesting to see how this develops with Flair in the drivers seat now.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...tional-airline

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    ^I wonder if they angling for a 49% foreign investment?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  97. #3397

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    It would be interesting to see how that will change the Canadian and Edmonton's aviation scene. Calgary can't be the hub to Air Canada and alliance's competitor, so Edmonton might get an opportunity here.

    On another note, does anyone know how well KML is doing in Edmonton from personal experience?

  98. #3398

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    Good news, Aeromexico now offers direct flights from Calgary to Mexico City. Would have been better to fly direct from Edmonton, but at least this is the most direct route to Mexico City from Edmonton, and offers a myriad of connection opportunities to Central and South America without having to connect in the US, or fly out of the way to YVR or YYZ.
    Last edited by jamesacer; 16-06-2017 at 07:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesacer View Post
    Good news, Aeromexico now offers direct flights from Calgary to Mexico City. Would have been better to fly direct from Edmonton, but at least this is the most direct route to Mexico City from Edmonton, and offers a myriad of connection opportunities to Central and South America without having to connect in the US, or fly out of the way to YVR or YYC.
    Fying through YYC is out of the way.

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    Posted on SS:

    Originally Posted by hilman View Post
    In theory, not sure why anyone would be against the EIA for making money on projects like this.

    EdmTrekker responded:
    I don't believe anyone has objected, but it is concerning. I would hope that any revenues would not simply go into "the pot" and are specifically recorded line by line and reported clearly in the financial statememts and expended for specific purposes such as route development and subsidy and airport expansion and not to pay for administration and operations. After all - the airport, a pubic body, is competing with private land owners and developers who have lands available for lease. I assume that EIA was able to offer incredible "deals" on our public lands. Those lands could have and perhaps should have been sold off and proceeds turned back to the taxpayers of Canada. I am sue there are real estate firms, developers and land owners that would agree with that. That said if the central argument for lease of these public lands is to generate funds for (1) route development and subsidy and (2) airport expansion I have no issue. If its simply money to grease the administration and operations wheels - that is concerning.

    Also concerning is that the 2016 EIA Annual Report states the VISION is "More flights to more places" BUT the Strategic Report on Page 53 does not mention Route Development. In fact there is scant reference to expanding air services. Instead listed below are the long term objectives for Management and the Board. As you can read - they plan on doing precious nothing to maintain or build routes. Talk about having your head up your arse.

    P53,P54
    Long-term Strategic Objectives 2021
    IMPROVE FINANCIAL SUSTAINABILITY
    ENHANCE PASSENGER EXPERIENCE (text included does not mention Route Development)
    Similar to previous years, we focus on the passenger experience through the use of the Airport Service Quality (ASQ) survey scores. This survey reviews passenger perspectives on different components of the airport experience, from parking and shopping to cleanliness and security. Our target going forward remains 4.40 / 5.00, as this would re ect a high value airport experience. To elevate the importance of the security screening, the ASQ score for security screening has also been included to re ect our work on passenger experience. For the satisfaction in security screening wait times we target 4.07/5.00.
    IMPROVE SOCIAL, ENVIRONMENTAL AND ECONOMIC SUSTAINABILITY
    ENHANCE AIRLINE PRODUCTIVITY
    IMPROVE EMPLOYEE ENGAGEMENT, PERFORMANCE AND WELL-BEING

    http://corporate.flyeia.com/sites/de...rt2016-lr2.pdf

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