Results 1 to 51 of 51

Thread: Paul Kane Park Water Feature shut off by Alberta Health Services

  1. #1

    Default Paul Kane Park Water Feature shut off by Alberta Health Services

    It is with great sorrow that I advise you all that Paul Kane Park's water feature will not be turned on this year. Leaving Oliver with a cement wasteland.

    Alberta Health Services did a audit of city parks that had water features and found that people had just a little too much fun....

    No seriously peoPle used it to wade in BUT it was never designed for that.

    The city is now forced to upgrade the pond so it's chlorinated at a Hefty cost, tear out the water feature or revamp the entire park.

    Please contact City Council Via 311 or twitter and let them know to #savepaulkane.

    If you are interested in working with the oliver community league and the city towards a bright future for the park please contact Mark Gitzel at [email protected].
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  2. #2
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles; Athens
    Posts
    4,399

    Default

    Wow, that's pretty heavy handed of Capital Health.

    I must admit that this represents one of the biggest differences I've noticed between Edmonton and LA. I see things here all the time that couldn't be built/done/etc in Edmonton due to laws, regulations, etc.

    OMG, water feature. People might get sick and die if it's not chlorinated!
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

  3. #3

    Default

    ^ same with the High Level Bridge...

    Please contact the city in some form and advise them that water must stay at the park in some form!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  4. #4
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Edmonton - Blue Quill
    Posts
    3,057

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    It is with great sorrow that I advise you all that Paul Kane Park's water feature will not be turned on this year. Leaving Oliver with a cement wasteland.
    Actually it's concrete, but I understand the frustration.
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

  5. #5
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    10,311

    Default

    anyone else note the irony of losing the waterfall because its water contains too much chlorine and losing a wading pool because its water doesn't contain enough chlorine?
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  6. #6

    Default

    I like that AHS has nothing beter to do personally...
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  7. #7
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles; Athens
    Posts
    4,399

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    anyone else note the irony of losing the waterfall because its water contains too much chlorine and losing a wading pool because its water doesn't contain enough chlorine?
    Bazinga!
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

  8. #8
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,284
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    anyone else note the irony of losing the waterfall because its water contains too much chlorine and losing a wading pool because its water doesn't contain enough chlorine?

    Yes...but I won't call it irony...that's too polite...
    Onward and upward

  9. #9

    Default

    Good to know AHS has emergency wait times, ambulance service, and sanitation within hospitals licked, allowing them the freedom to hunt down fringe health risks in our communities...
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  10. #10

    Default

    Please call 311 or write City Council. CC the OCL at [email protected] please..

    Thanks guys!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  11. #11

    Default

    What a joke, my kids love wading in these pools, its a huge attraction in summer. Very heavy handed / over the top by Capital Health, there are clear signs up "don't wade in the pool", why shouldn't people be allowed to disregard at their own risk? I think so.

    Is Capital Health going to close the North Saskatchewan river because somebody could jump in that and drown / get sick? Perhaps we should all put in a complaint to drain that? How about all the other fountains in the City, will Alexander Circle be closed next?
    Last edited by moahunter; 19-03-2012 at 10:24 AM.

  12. #12

    Default

    ^ Captial Health is no more... just as a point.. This is Alberta Health Services.

    Please don't just post here.. Contact Laurie Blakeman, the city or write a letter to the OCL so we can share it with the city on your behalf. [email protected]
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  13. #13
    In Guantanamo (Banned)
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    252

    Default

    I think it's a very good decision, and it would be even better if the pool were filled in and grassed over. And for the lord's sake, I hope the Oliver community league just butts out.

  14. #14
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    43,981

    Default

    As you know we, DECL, are dealing with the same issue at Beaver Hills.

    Paul Kane is a wonderful urban refuge during summer months, would be a shame to lose the water feature.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  15. #15
    In Guantanamo (Banned)
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    252

    Default

    The water is a haven for mosquitoes -- or pesticides, take your pick.

    Would you let your kids take communal baths with strangers?

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arsoys View Post
    The water is a haven for mosquitoes -- or pesticides, take your pick.

    Would you let your kids take communal baths with strangers?



    Really now. Sounds like AHS has nothing better to do with their time.

    Another 'fun' thing in Edmonton ruined.
    FREE THE LOOPING .GIF MEMES
    youtube.com/GrimEmpire

  17. #17

    Default

    So, where is the outrage in local media / newspapers?

  18. #18
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    43,981

    Default

    ^awareness is just getting out there... expect some soon.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    So, where is the outrage in local media / newspapers?
    News is coming... I can also shae some back story... from 2006 \

    There is no link for this it's from their archives.


    Source: The Edmonton Journal

    EDMONTON - Edmonton's aging wading pools will be ripped out by 2010 under a $3.8-million city plan to replace most of them with spray decks or other facilities.

    The scheme has been in the works for several years, but became more urgent with provincial rules expected this fall that will eventually force wading pools to have circulation and chlorination equipment, community recreation co-ordinator Dee Dee Carr said Wednesday.

    "These new regulations are perhaps moving us along at a quicker pace, but if you look across the country, the trend appears to be going to the spray deck (or) water park type of idea. I would suggest it's more of an evolution of the type of water play ... that families and children want to experience."

    Edmonton's 34 wading pools are at least 35 years old and have received few or no significant repairs, according to budget documents.

    Over the next four years, the city will demolish the pools, at a cost about $130,000 each, and turn them into spray decks, where water shoots out of six nozzles on a flat asphalt or concrete pad before draining away. By comparison, keeping the pools open would cost about $300,000 each for cleaning and circulation equipment.

    Seven have been changed to spray decks since 2001.

    Community leagues can add extra nozzles or other features, such as water guns, at their own cost. Many are considering $20,000 to $30,000 worth of upgrades, Carr said.

    Random tests in 2003-04 turned up unacceptable levels of bacteria at many locations, although no illness has been linked to Edmonton wading pools, she said.

    However, chlorine will be added this summer at 17 pools that will remain open for wading at the request of community leagues, she said. About 15 other pools will put steel caps on water outlets to create spray nozzles.

    Howard Lawrence of the Highlands Community League is wary of the plans. He doesn't believe his neighbourhood's small wading pool poses any health risk, saying it's refilled twice a day and the concrete deck is bleached regularly.

    For more than 20 years, the little pool has been the heart of the community in the summer, frequently packed with children, Lawrence said.

    He said a spray deck would be less fun and wouldn't look as good.

    "The pool is more than a pool. It's a gathering place for people," he said.

    "The city should not be destroying any community space out of fear of litigation until they know they can deliver something equally attractive to parents and kids."

    Lawrence said the city told him Highlands can operate the pool as usual this summer.

    In Oliver, Susana Chalut said she often plays with her four-year-old daughter Carmen at the Paul Kane Park ornamental pool.

    Although it isn't designed for public use and isn't part of the rehabilitation project, she worried that removing wading pools elsewhere would hurt communities.

    "It would be sad, because I can tell you there is a whole little world around our pool. Every summer, on every warm day, it's full of kids," she said.

    "This city doesn't have an ocean or beaches like in Chile, where I'm from. For me and my daughter, this pool is our beach."

    Outdoor wading pools, which attracted 55,000 visitors in 2005, won't disappear from Edmonton entirely.

    The necessary equipment is being installed to keep two well-used sites open, probably at Kinsmen Park and Borden Park.

    The City Hall fountain has the proper filtration machinery and won't be affected by the new regulations, while there are already major spray parks in Castle Downs and Mill Woods.

    "We recognize the importance of the traditional wading pool option," Carr said. "We wanted to ensure there was one of these wading pools or a spray park in each of the four quadrants of the city."

    Changes to the Public Health Act will include wading pools and spray parks for the first time under swimming pool regulations, Alberta Health spokeswoman Joanne Anderson said.

    Once the new rules are approved, probably this fall, wading pools and spray parks will immediately need to have chlorine in their water, she said. Equipment to do it automatically will have to be installed within five years.

    "We know that these are used by children, and they're very vulnerable to water-borne illnesses. We want to make sure they have the safest water quality possible," Anderson said.

    The province hasn't tracked whether anyone has become sick from being in a wading pool, but an E. coli outbreak was linked to a Vancouver Island spray park in 2004 and there have been similar incidents in the United States, Anderson said.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  20. #20

    Default

    Uh oh, better chlorinate rain and puddles too. Or make going outside illegal altogether without a proper hazmat suit.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  21. #21

    Default

    ^ Or !!!

    The city can reinvest the proper technologies into our existing parks to keep them functioning. This park is over 30 years old and the infrastructure has seen little care. The park itself was years ahead of itself and is truly an Edmonton success story in place making and community engagement.

    I will say this though.. the city is stuck between a rock and AHS over zealous red tape... In my Opinion.

    The city is doing great things in the DT core and the League is working with the city to see what can be done... It's just not happening fast enough and summer is coming.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  22. #22
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Strathcona - Mill Creek
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    Oh man, that's a really cool park!

  23. #23

    Default

    Look for stories from CBC, Global and the EJ

    i880 has also been contacted as well as others..
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post

    Source: The Edmonton Journal


    Over the next four years, the city will demolish the pools, at a cost about $130,000 each, and turn them into spray decks, where water shoots out of six nozzles on a flat asphalt or concrete pad before draining away. By comparison, keeping the pools open would cost about $300,000 each for cleaning and circulation equipment.
    Spray parks and pools are not the same thing. You can't easily sit or dangle your feet in a spray, and bouncing balls around a spray is just not the same.


    The necessary equipment is being installed to keep two well-used sites open, probably at Kinsmen Park and Borden Park.
    Do I need to point out that the Kinsmen is not within easy children's walking distance of any community?


    This is just frustrating all around. Next thing you know, it will be illegal to leave the house without a bubble suit.
    Paul Kane park with a spray park will not be the same, and I for one won't be in a hurry to bring a book and a lounge chair to stare at a concrete pad with water taps on it.

    Our various levels of government need to do a better job of working together - one level wants to improve the city, make it a place that people want to live and play, the other seems to not give a flying hoot about people actually enjoying it, as long as it's 'safe'.

    I grew up swimming in prairie lakes, and aside from a bout of swimmer's itch, I don't recall ever getting sick from it. You know, with geese and ducks and fish and farmers and small children all contaminating them in their own way...

    And yes, I am also sending a note to my various politicians, etc.

  25. #25

    Default

    ^ thanks city dweller!

    A spray deck was installed in a playground just down the road from paul kane, We need something different and more adult friendly for this space.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  26. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    The province hasn't tracked whether anyone has become sick from being in a wading pool, but an E. coli outbreak was linked to a Vancouver Island spray park in 2004 and there have been similar incidents in the United States, Anderson said.
    What is annoying, is that because on one occasion something bad happened, everywhere, everybody has to have no enjoyment, i.e. what % of wading pools does this happen to? I'm guessing an absolutley minute number.

    While I would be upset to get E. coli at a public facility, provided the city posts signs warning of the risk, how is it in anyway liable or responsible?

  27. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ thanks city dweller!

    A spray deck was installed in a playground just down the road from paul kane, We need something different and more adult friendly for this space.
    Yes, we do!!!
    The atmosphere at Paul Kane is great, a very mixed crowd, not too rowdy (most of the time). You won't catch me hanging around a spray park until I have kids of my own.

  28. #28

    Default

    such a great water feature.. Chicago's millennium park

    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  29. #29

    Default

    anyone know if the fountains at the legislature are 'up-to-code', or if they've also been ordered shut off? I have a feeling that pigs would fly before that happened, but I've been known to be wrong...

  30. #30
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    43,981

    Default

    They are chlorinated.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  31. #31

    Default

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...042/story.html

    Nestled quietly behind the Tudor-style Christchurch Anglican Church, the urban park, named for the great Canadian painter, provides badly needed green space for the apartment dwellers of Oliver, Edmonton’s highest-density neighbourhood.

    The park is a true community gathering spot. Unlike a playground or spray park, which appeals primarily to children and young families, Paul Kane is what you might call a socially integrated public space, where toddlers and seniors, families, courting couples and urban singletons all gather to take the air and enjoy the greenery.

    What makes the park such a magnet?

    People come, as though drawn by instinct, for the waters. It isn’t especially elaborate. It’s a modest little artificial pond-cum-fountain, what urban planners call a passive water feature. Somehow, simple though it is, the pretty water works a kind of magic, especially on hot summer days and long sultry nights. It transforms what might otherwise be a dull patch of prairie grassland into an urban oasis
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  32. #32

    Default

    Notes regarding the meeting with the city posed to facebook

    http://www.facebook.com/OliverCommunityLeague
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  33. #33

    Default

    If anyone knows how I can find out about the design history of Paul Kane Park please let me know...

    I wonder if it's not supported to represent the big lake at Elk Island National Park?!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  34. #34

    Default

    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  35. #35

    Default

    The Sourdough Raft Race and the Dragon Boat Festival have now been cancelled for your safety. ...and smoking in open air parks, too.

  36. #36

    Default

    ^^ O seee because when you are boating you are not actually making contact with the water you are ok...

    like one never gets wet while boating... it's so frustrating.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  37. #37

    Default

    I have no problem with requiring a wading pool, which is primarily used by young children, needing to be chlorinated. When you have toddlers still in diapers it's very easy for one child to contaminate the water with e coli. When those same children keep putting everything in their mouths you can quickly get a large number of young children infected. Treating the water is much cheaper than treating the children after they get sick.

  38. #38

    Default

    ^ don't think that the water at Paul Kane wasn't treated... it is...

    The environmental guy started explaining dihydrocloride blah blah blah and I kinda tuned out... the treatment used was not continuous and broke down in sunlight. What I took away is that they shock treated it...

    Personally I would be more concerned about eating meat products from large meat packing plants and eating spinach from large industrial farm. Our processed food system is much more riddled with E coli than a wading pool.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  39. #39
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Strathcona - Mill Creek
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    I think wading pools should be treated, but Paul Kane doesn't have a wading pool, it has a water feature that people waded in because they ignored the signs.

  40. #40

    Default

    Frozen beef burgers recalled over E. coli contamination fears

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/03...ination-fears/

    3 Years After E. Coli Outbreak, Is Spinach Safer?
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HealthyLiv...3#.T2i9R8Ugemw

    Three years after an E. coli outbreak, thought to be linked to spinach, took three lives and left 205 people sick, "Good Morning America" discovered that while the industry instituted new safety standards to prevent bacterial contamination, there are no requirements to test salad products before they get to market.

    New E. Coli Testing Standards Not Mandatory
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  41. #41

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I think wading pools should be treated, but Paul Kane doesn't have a wading pool, it has a water feature that people waded in because they ignored the signs.
    The community views this as an interactive water feature and the city cannot turn a blind eye to the way it's used.

    I understand the city's position that is forced upon them by the province. The city of Edmonton has already responded to this problem with millions of dollars of infrastructure spending.

    What I can fault the city for is not having a better handle on this park and waiting to the last hour to do something about it.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  42. #42

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gord Lacey View Post
    I think wading pools should be treated, but Paul Kane doesn't have a wading pool, it has a water feature that people waded in because they ignored the signs.
    Bingo, its user beware, just like with a river, or a puddle, or a lake. Enough of the Nanny state.

  43. #43
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    10,311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I have no problem with requiring a wading pool, which is primarily used by young children, needing to be chlorinated. When you have toddlers still in diapers it's very easy for one child to contaminate the water with e coli. When those same children keep putting everything in their mouths you can quickly get a large number of young children infected. Treating the water is much cheaper than treating the children after they get sick.
    I have no problem with requiring a wading poolSANDBOX AND OUR PLAYGROUND EQUIPMENT, which is are primarily used by young children, needing to be chlorinated. When you have toddlers still in diapers it's very easy for one child to contaminate the water SAND OR SLIDE OR SWING with e coli. When those same children keep putting everything in their mouths you can quickly get a large number of young children infected. Treating the water SAND OR SLIDE OR SWING is much cheaper than treating the children after they get sick...

    while we're at it, maybe we should chlorinate all of the dogs and cats and birds that use that water/sand/slide/swing for "something else entirely different" as well...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  44. #44

    Default

    Ahhh here is where politics come in

    Rivers and lakes are Federal not Provincial or Muni...

    I grew up next to a lake whos water was... well.. lake water (buffalo lake). Did I get hives, yep once or twice, did anyone I know ever die from the lake.. nope.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  45. #45

    Default

    To be honest.... I'm onto the next hurdle already.. the work on a park refer plan has been started..

    key concerns now

    1) What happens till then
    2) Who is going to pay?!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  46. #46
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    10,562

    Default

    Well you know germs exist so we all have to be placed in plastic non germ bubbles so that germs can't get to us.
    Personally I haven't been to that park so I don't know what it looks like but I wonder if there are any cheap natural solutions to this Health board created problem.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  47. #47

    Default

    Job No 185863499-001
    Description: To construct exterior alterations to an existing Public Park (replace bences, light poles and pathway surfaces; relocate statue and stream; install wetland ribbon around pond)(Paul Kane Park)
    Location: 10220 - 121 STREET NW
    Plan 7922959 Blk E Lot 15
    Applicant: GEC ARCHITECTURE (C/O EMMA DUNN)
    Status: On Hold
    Create Date: 1/15/2016 11:15:55 AM

  48. #48

    Default

    Neat.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  49. #49
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    43,981

    Default

    EDC tonight as well.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  50. #50

    Default

    Some follow-up on this park. Renovations have been underway for a couple weeks. A few dying trees were cut down, benches and sidewalks taken out, and concrete near Paul Kane House broken up. It looks like a nice refresh. The pond will just be re-lined, then surrounded with wetland plantings, and the creek relocated and shortened. Too bad for that part but it will be retained. Sidewalks will be concrete, and there will be a few wooden decks. Unfortunately it'll take nearly a year to do it all so users of this unique little park (are there others in the city like this?) will have to wait for next year.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/projects_plan...ntal-pond.aspx

  51. #51
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    43,981
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •