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Thread: Pedway / Way-finding for Edmonton

  1. #101

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    I was going to say, looks exactly like Van's. The one thing I would like to see is full LRT route maps and area bus connection/stop maps (like the Downtown core major bus route/stop locations maps already in place) outside the station platform itself, maybe something similar to the area Skytrain map or Montreal subway map. Edmonton's LRT route map doesn't really show where it goes.
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  2. #102
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  3. #103
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    Walkable Edmonton has an expanded site up.

    http://walkableedmonton.com/
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  4. #104

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    Somewhat related: http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/03/3...wn-says-report

    The downtown core has 51 public washrooms, of which 14 are open after 9 p.m., the report says.
    Downtown wayfinding signage needs to include washrooms, and operated hours.
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  5. #105
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    I think wheelchair-accessible locations should also be marked.
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  6. #106
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    Very pleased with how many people I see using varieties of new way-finding. More to come!
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  7. #107
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    The permanent wayfinding is going up and looks awesome!


    www.twitter.com/walkedmonton
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  8. #108

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    Finally!
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  9. #109

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    Explain to me why when I'm facing north west and looking at the map it has south east at the top? And then the close in map above it has north at the top like normal maps. Why the two different views?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The permanent wayfinding is going up and looks awesome!


    www.twitter.com/walkedmonton
    who missed the matching "corner cut" on the plinth and why aren't the edge treatments/overhang the same on the length side vs the width side at the top chamfer?

    as to the awesomeness, i will reserve judgement on how well we're served or not by static signage as opposed to electronic in a year or two when we'll know how clean as well as how current they are.

    is there a qr-code link to automatically download the map to your phone on the sign anywhere?
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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Explain to me why when I'm facing north west and looking at the map it has south east at the top? And then the close in map above it has north at the top like normal maps. Why the two different views?
    I believe that is being changed. The idea all along was that the map would be facing the direction you are facing, versus always true north.
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  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Explain to me why when I'm facing north west and looking at the map it has south east at the top? And then the close in map above it has north at the top like normal maps. Why the two different views?
    I believe that is being changed. The idea all along was that the map would be facing the direction you are facing, versus always true north.
    while you're changing things, i've had to do more walking and driving in and around downtown this week than normal and think you should add a new city slogan to your signage:

    "no matter where you're going or how, you can't get there from here."
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  13. #113

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    and "Wish you were a bird now?"
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  14. #114
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    Meeting this AM on getting buy in from private owners. Expect the new product to begin rolling out mid-2019.

    Learn more:
    https://www.edmonton.ca/projects_pla...ayfinding.aspx
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  15. #115

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    'bout time! Thanks for posting, Ian.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  16. #116

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    wayfinding should be a city wide initiative. I hope what ever ground work is laid out for downtown can extend throughout the city and all river valley parks.

  17. #117
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    That would be the plan. Downtown is being done first, then it will be rolled out as the standard to other key areas and used where needed.
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  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Explain to me why when I'm facing north west and looking at the map it has south east at the top? And then the close in map above it has north at the top like normal maps. Why the two different views?
    I believe that is being changed. The idea all along was that the map would be facing the direction you are facing, versus always true north.

    This defying general common sense that maps should orient North, as people come to expect maps to orient. For the two maps to orient differently is colossally stupid, and probably equally confusing. Anybody who had the idea to orient these maps differently probably has some stupid ideas.

    Also, conceiving of orienting maps to "direction facing" is subject to additional idiocy when the signposts in question are not oriented as expected in situ. Just orienting them North removes that potential difficulty. Even the signpost in the picture does not seem to be oriented perfectly in line with the map.

    Anybodies initial impression would be that the DT lower map is placed upside down. Which is perhaps appropriate foreshadowing to visitors on how backwards the DT is.

    I thought the braindrain stopped.
    Last edited by Replacement; 29-01-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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  19. #119
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    I guess the consultants who do this the world over are wrong... damn those best practices of contemporary design.
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  20. #120

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    Damn those map makers who insist putting north to the top makes sense. If this is "best practices" why isn't the map at the top skewed as well? You've got two maps of the same area and they don't line up. How is that clarifying?

    It also doesn't make sense since the close in map is actually showing you the view that's behind you. Rotate that view 180 degrees and it might make sense.



    Guess it's hipster and kewl.
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 29-01-2019 at 08:37 PM.

  21. #121

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    yea that's terrible, should align with the direction you're facing as you view the sign face on.

  22. #122

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    We naturally read top to bottom so the most important information we expect to be at the top. In the smaller map, the information about the direction you're looking is at the bottom.

    "Best practices", right.

    Makes you wonder why they even bothered to ask for public consultation since we don't know as much as the "consultants". Bad design is bad design, no matter how many people are doing it or how often.

  23. #123
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    FYI folks, the guys who did our wayfinding worked on Vancouver and London England, among dozens of other cities.
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  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    I guess the consultants who do this the world over are wrong... damn those best practices of contemporary design.

    That you defend something as illogical as that map is perhaps revealing your own thought process. You seem to defend things like this just because they occur. You allude to practices without citing them, or why the bottom map is in your view helpful. To anybody else I've heard comment on it the bottom map is confusing. AS maps tend to be when they don't properly orient north.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  25. #125

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    Its kind of hilarious how if a GPS world figures that North, or magnetic north is not an important variable in navigation or orienteering. Its mindblowing actually if any consultants think North orientation is not critical. Just throw the compass out and wander around lost, it doesn't matter..
    Last edited by Replacement; 30-01-2019 at 07:12 AM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    FYI folks, the guys who did our wayfinding worked on Vancouver and London England, among dozens of other cities.
    Funny that you don't even follow your own guidelines. In the example shown, up is behind you.

    Page 5

    4 Map-based
    Creating and using a consistent map as the
    best medium for communicating complex
    information. Orienting maps in the direction
    the user is facing (ahead up) makes them
    more accessible

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/ed..._design_rd.pdf

  27. #127

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    The map on the wayfinding post shown above was a part of the pilot of Downtown signage and there was revision to those maps, as far as I know / remember. The full instalation and implementation of the full wayfinding system has been tweeked. In fact, this whole conversation can be found on this thread posted I think over 2-3 years ago. The best solution to getting the best information is keeping up to date with the actual project which you can find on the City of Edmonton's website, attending sessions / open houses, or following Wayfinding Edmonton. It's a great little project with good people involved. Badly needed and the final product will be amazing.
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  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    FYI folks, the guys who did our wayfinding worked on Vancouver and London England, among dozens of other cities.
    Funny that you don't even follow your own guidelines. In the example shown, up is behind you.

    Page 5

    4 Map-based
    Creating and using a consistent map as the
    best medium for communicating complex
    information. Orienting maps in the direction
    the user is facing (ahead up) makes them
    more accessible

    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/ed..._design_rd.pdf
    That's what I am defending, or did I miss something?
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  29. #129

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    Look at the lower map on the picture above. It doesn't have the direction you're facing at the top, unless Telus Plaza is in the valley.

    As dumb as it is, it's still totally wrong.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Look at the lower map on the picture above. It doesn't have the direction you're facing at the top, unless Telus Plaza is in the valley.

    As dumb as it is, it's still totally wrong.
    Re-read above please.
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  31. #131

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    “Advisory Board slams 'nearly unusable' Edmonton transit signs”
    see below:



    Advisory Board slams 'nearly unusable' Edmonton transit signs
    ETS Advisory Board identified 21 wayfinding issues at site visits across ETS system

    Jordan Omstead · CBC News · Posted: Feb 08, 2019

    “...

    'Bleak and unwelcoming' access

    The report outlined specific shortcomings...”


    “Ways forward

    The report also offers suggestions for ways the city can improve transit wayfinding. It suggests installing consistent and identifiable ETS branded landmarks at bus stops and LRT entrances, pointing to the famous London Underground logo at entrances to the subway in the U.K. capital as an example.

    The report suggested the nearly unusable maps in LRT stations could be ..”



    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...port-1.5012719

  32. #132
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    I think it would be a simple fix if LRT replaced the Edmonton Transit logos at the entrances. I think the green overhead Ped-Way signs could be replaced with electronic message boards indicating destinations (e.g., Rogers Place, Central LRT) as well as the immediate destination.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  33. #133
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    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  34. #134
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    Thankfully we will see a lot of this rolling out over the next 3-6.
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  35. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Thankfully we will see a lot of this rolling out over the next 3-6.
    ....days?
    weeks?
    months?
    years?
    decades? (most likely)
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  36. #136
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    Fortnights
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  37. #137
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    Not much has changed as far as I can tell
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  38. #138
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    Final arrangements with Epcor are apparently now in place... so we should expect them being installed in the next month or so I am told.
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  39. #139

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    Did they fix the ridiculous maps that don't have north at the top?

  40. #140
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    The decision was made multiple years ago now to orient them as you are looking, aka line of sight. This was the recommendation from the consultant who did Vancouver, London, Cleveland etc.
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  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    The decision was made multiple years ago now to orient them as you are looking, aka line of sight. This was the recommendation from the consultant who did Vancouver, London, Cleveland etc.
    Kinda like throwing a Dvorak keyboard in front a population raised with QWERTY.

    I didn’t like my vehicle NAV doing that as well. Got used to it.

    Hate the morons who decided that when someone de-zooms (“zooms out”) all the non-route / secondary roads should disappear so you can’t use it as a map.
    Last edited by KC; 08-08-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  42. #142

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    My NAV does that too, but I can just press a button and different mode appears (Normal north facing layout of a typical map). Can't really do that with a street sign, cause I doubt those will be electronic... but would be pretty cool if they were. You could click a destination and it would show how to get there from here.

  43. #143
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    I wonder if Google Maps might include pedways in the near future.
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  44. #144
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    I like these (from Lincoln Ho): http://yegventures.ca/lrtmaps/
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  45. #145
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    I like them also with one possible provision. I'm stairs challenged so I focus on this. It would be good for some coding to indicate which exits are handicap accessible (escalator/elevator).

  46. #146
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    You should see the permanent wayfinding signs being installed in the coming weeks.
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  47. #147

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    so that's about 7 years after this thread began. Seems about right. I'm sure lots of good lunches were had.
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  48. #148

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    I wonder how many studies have been done in other cities that show that we're doing it all wrong?

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