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Thread: LED Street Lighting - not yet

  1. #101
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    I think the ability to distinguish colour is more important than light intensity on dark sidewalks.

    Eve

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I think the ability to distinguish colour is more important than light intensity on dark sidewalks.

    Eve
    You could have both plus a lot more.

    The beauty of LEDs is far greater design flexibility so light can be directed in more directions than the 'dumbed-down' one size fits all designs now in place. With a smarter design some dual directionality could be built into lights to have both the current broadcast street lighting as well as additional rearward sidewalk lighting to serve sidewalks further back behind wide boulevards.

    Someone that is older with poor night vision or someone that is colourblind could have the lighting automatically adjust for them as they pass by. Those with a concern for their safety could get added intensity. Just off the top of my head I can easily imagine all kinds of smarter designs so I imagine the future could be very interesting.

    At Newark Airport, the Lights Are On, and They’re Watching You
    By DIANE CARDWELLFEB. 17, 2014

    Excerpt:


    “No one really wanted the smartphone 20 years ago because they didn’t know they could have it,” said Fred Maxik, founder and chief technology officer of Lighting Science Group, which manufactures LEDs. “And I think the same is true of lighting today: No one knows what lighting is going to be capable of.”



    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/18/bu...-you.html?_r=0
    Last edited by KC; 05-11-2014 at 06:49 PM.

  3. #103
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    ^ Please no to motion sensor lights. I don't want the streetlights on my block flashing every time someone walks down the street. If there is any brightness adjustment, just make them dim from midnight to 6:00 am.
    Better cutoffs to reduce light trespass are a good thing though - I would appreciate streetlights that didn't shine in my windows.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ Please no to motion sensor lights. I don't want the streetlights on my block flashing every time someone walks down the street. If there is any brightness adjustment, just make them dim from midnight to 6:00 am.
    Better cutoffs to reduce light trespass are a good thing though - I would appreciate streetlights that didn't shine in my windows.
    Your mind is stuck thinking in terms of your past experience. As you say, some thought going into new designs could eliminate much of the light shining into nearby house windows. Similarly some thought going into designs could have them slowly increase and decrease lighting rather than "flash". It needn't turn on the light immediately above a pedestrian but instead slowly light up several poles in front of and behind a pedestrian.

    We're moving from all the design constraints that a single short-lived bulb created, to a multi-light long-life highly flexible design fixture - but people can't get their minds past viewing the future in terms of the old now obsolete technology of the past - plus what they see so far - a colour and brightness change as the new technology simply tries to duplicate the old rather than show its potential.



    ~
    Last edited by KC; 06-11-2014 at 09:14 AM.

  5. #105
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    I know what Titanium means by motion sensor. They had those in the parking lot that my basement bedroom backed onto in my North Downtown apartment. But I agree with KC that we may be entering a new age.

    Currently, in many places, there is far too much light flowing into residences. There is no functional reason that my high-rise apartment has to have enough light flowing in to almost read by. LEDs open up the possibility of having light focused where it needs to be (the sidewalks and roads) and not leak into places where it doesn't need to be (my highrise bedroom windows).

    Eve

  6. #106

    Cool Live side by side comparison

    They are switching them out on 81st avenue east of Buena Vista Road. Last night there was a block where both led's and sodium were on together. This may continue tonight or until they remove the sodium ones.

    Good chance to compare if you're interested.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    I know what Titanium means by motion sensor. They had those in the parking lot that my basement bedroom backed onto in my North Downtown apartment. But I agree with KC that we may be entering a new age.

    Currently, in many places, there is far too much light flowing into residences. There is no functional reason that my high-rise apartment has to have enough light flowing in to almost read by. LEDs open up the possibility of having light focused where it needs to be (the sidewalks and roads) and not leak into places where it doesn't need to be (my highrise bedroom windows).

    Eve
    ...but right now all we're doing now is rushing to these crude first generation replacements for existing lighting. The future financial payoff or political will just won't be there for incremental beneficial changeouts such as improved directional light control etc. They'll just say that there's 20 years of life left in the current LEDs so live with them.
    Last edited by KC; 06-11-2014 at 09:55 AM.

  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ...but right now all we're doing now is rushing to these crude first generation replacements for existing lighting. The future financial payoff or political will just won't be there for incremental beneficial changeouts such as improved directional light control etc. They'll just say that there's 20 years of life left in the current LEDs so live with them.

    Not first generation at all.

    Edmonton first undertook LED pilots in 2007, which yielded poor results due to inadequate light levels, poor distribution, and equipment failures. However, the experience laid valuable groundwork for a new pilot project in 2009-2010, which yielded favorable results. This pilot compared five manufacturers with each other and with the baseline high pressure sodium (HPS) existing streetlights. It was conducted over 12 months by city staff, assisted by an electrical services contractor and a lighting consultant. Results in all measured areas met requirements for moving forward with LED implementation, including a payback of seven years for end of life replacement.
    http://www.lightsavers.ca/case_studi...se%20Study.pdf

  9. #109
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    On that study I wonder why streetlight pole life is 20-30 years with proper painting or galvanizing they should last almost forever (of course Edmontonian drivers will take out 30% of them).

  10. #110

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    I was reading a news item tonight about city in Mexico installing a solar LED streetlight. So that's one more area that we could see major advances on in the next couple years. Use solar here and we could cut our electricty use in novel and possibly profitable ways (peak shaving etc.)

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I was reading a news item tonight about city in Mexico installing a solar LED streetlight. So that's one more area that we could see major advances on in the next couple years. Use solar here and we could cut our electricty use in novel and possibly profitable ways (peak shaving etc.)

    Very impractical given our short daytime hours during winter season, coupled with potential ice/snow pack over the solar cells further reducing or even eliminating their operational charging time.

  12. #112
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    You sure? I'm amazed how solar panels keep those huge directional signs lit up. Far bigger and way more active than a street lamp.

    Alas, must admit, I don't know for sure.

    But, now that I think of it, Beijing had solar powered street lamps, and sunlight cutting through that smog was a rare and welcome sight.
    ... gobsmacked

  13. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I was reading a news item tonight about city in Mexico installing a solar LED streetlight. So that's one more area that we could see major advances on in the next couple years. Use solar here and we could cut our electricty use in novel and possibly profitable ways (peak shaving etc.)

    Very impractical given our short daytime hours during winter season, coupled with potential ice/snow pack over the solar cells further reducing or even eliminating their operational charging time.
    I have a solar security light in my yard and the little panel charges it quite well. Of course it's no good for a nighttime of light but obviously we wouldn't expect that here. However, using solar for say just one hour out of 10 hrs would cut generation needs by 10% before it would have to switch to system generated power. That seems easily attainable - though maybe not cost effective yet. With the hours of sunlight we have in the summer though I imagine we could do more than just one hour.

  14. #114

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    Looks like loads of smaller incremental changes to lighting technology are coming down the pike...

    Graphene light bulb set for shops - BBC News
    "The light bulb was developed by a Canadian-financed company called Graphene Lighting - one of whose directors is Prof Colin Bailey, deputy vice-chancellor at the University of Manchester.
    It is expected to be priced lower than some LED bulbs, which can cost about £15 each.
    Based on traditional light bulb design, the use of graphene allows it to conduct electricity and heat more effectively.
    Prof Bailey told the BBC: "The graphene light bulb will use less energy. We expect it to last longer. The manufacturing costs are lower and it uses more and more sustainable components." ..."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-32100071

    Glasgow starts work on major streetlight projects - BBC News

    "...sensors will be able to detect approaching cyclists and pedestrians and increase in brightness.

    They will also count footfall and the number of cyclists, as well as collecting information on air pollution. ..."


    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-...-west-32017383
    Last edited by KC; 30-03-2015 at 12:15 AM.

  15. #115

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    GE Spotlights New Smart Street Lamps | TechCrunch

    "It used to be about generating and wattage a visibility, but today’s product has the potential to be much more,” he explained. “[The light pole] has power and networking and adding sensors, you can now do things with these lights everywhere.”

    This means, cities can potentially take advantage of the data being generated by the sensors, and using the GE Predix platform, begin building applications for public safety, transportation, intelligent digital signs and the environment. ..."

    http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/16/ge-...-street-lamps/


    High-tech GE street lights coming to Jacksonville | News - Home

    "The city could in turn use that information to develop an app so people can check for open parking on their smartphones.

    GE said the lights could also broadcast city announcements.

    “The number of opportunities are endless,” Irick said.

    So what will happen to all the data collected by the lights?

    GE said that's up to the city.

    But some people are concerned about privacy. ..."

    http://www.news4jax.com/news/hightec...ville/32404784
    Last edited by KC; 17-04-2015 at 01:01 AM.

  16. #116
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    Noticed the other day that a good stretch of south AHD around 50 Street interchange has had the LED conversion. Have to say, I actually prefer them to the old lights. They are very bright.

  17. #117

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    ^ Good, as long as they are willing to quickly rip them out if something better comes out in a year or two.

    Jacksonville debuts high-tech streetlights — and they're watching you - Jacksonville Business Journal

    "The possibilities are growing quickly, Jaime Irick, vice president and general manager for GE Lighting, told reporters.

    He said to think of it like smartphones: At first, many smartphones were limited in the applications they had. Now, the apps are nearly limitless. Right now, the intelligent streetlights can be applied in so many ways, but through creativity those options can grow."

    http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonvi....html?page=all

  18. #118
    Last edited by KC; 21-05-2015 at 06:20 AM.

  19. #119

    Default

    Street lights powered by solar and wind energy to light up Barcelona | Video | Reuters.com

    http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/05...videoChannel=6

  20. #120

    Default I'm not the only one

    who dislikes having one of these in my front yard:


    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/op...imes&smtyp=cur

  21. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarsands View Post
    who dislikes having one of these in my front yard:


    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/18/op...imes&smtyp=cur

    Interesting article. Better design with improved directional control (via LEDs and lenses and reflectors) should be able to light roads better and even give some new found priority to pedestrians on sidewalks. Instead, all we get is a near identical light distribution on the new as we've lived with using the old technology.

  22. #122

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    Totally agree. I'm blinded by the lateral glare when driving, and the deathly blue light is cold and gross. Once the snow falls, I'll really miss the warmth of the warmer light. Edmonton feels a lot colder when it casts a froze blue glow.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  23. #123

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    That article is quite funny. I'd suggest adding coloured window film to one's house - much like hanging different cloths over lamps as the author mentioned.

  24. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Totally agree. I'm blinded by the lateral glare when driving, and the deathly blue light is cold and gross. Once the snow falls, I'll really miss the warmth of the warmer light. Edmonton feels a lot colder when it casts a froze blue glow.
    My wife when driving at night in the LED neighbourhoods will use the sun visor, she finds the glare blinding as well. The warmer temperature amber LED's do not have this problem, as we noticed in Brisbane.
    Last edited by Frank Wilson; 19-10-2015 at 09:41 PM.

  25. #125
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    Haven't noticed the glare, I for one love the color of the new LED lights and loathe the old orange ones.

  26. #126
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    As Chmilz mentioned, the coldness and lateral glare is awful, bring back warm glowy.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  27. #127
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    Our neighborhood street (but not alleyways) were done. It seems the poles are too far apart for these lights as there are really dim spots in between. Any vehicles parked block the light to the sidewalks. The yards are dark as not much light is cast. Overall it is very spooky. I imagine bad guys are standing in the trees so I walk down the middle of the road. Thankfully we will soon get snow on the ground and be so much brighter

  28. #128

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    Prefer LED to sodium orange.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  29. #129

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    Some of this discussion needs to be more specific, the first neighbourhoods to get LED got a more glarey bluer colour. Later neighbourhoods got/are getting an adjusted colour.

    Personally I prefer either over those slobbish orange things. I remember when the orange ones were introduced in the '80s, and always considered them a step backwards. The previous generation technology, like the LEDs, made the snow sparkle like diamonds, and you could see the colours of people's scarfs and jackets.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  30. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by workworkwork View Post
    Our neighborhood street (but not alleyways) were done. It seems the poles are too far apart for these lights as there are really dim spots in between. Any vehicles parked block the light to the sidewalks. The yards are dark as not much light is cast. Overall it is very spooky. I imagine bad guys are standing in the trees so I walk down the middle of the road. Thankfully we will soon get snow on the ground and be so much brighter


    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Some of this discussion needs to be more specific, the first neighbourhoods to get LED got a more glarey bluer colour. Later neighbourhoods got/are getting an adjusted colour.

    Personally I prefer either over those slobbish orange things. I remember when the orange ones were introduced in the '80s, and always considered them a step backwards. The previous generation technology, like the LEDs, made the snow sparkle like diamonds, and you could see the colours of people's scarfs and jackets.
    Among my issues were that some early neighbourhood conversions will get stuck with flawed designs. Fortunately the payback periods are short so there's a small chance that a second conversion might be performed.

    Also, I was concerned that people would just be satisfied with a straight replacement. Much like people were likely quite satisfied with early cell phones as a be all and end all of portable devices. Smart phones changed all that of course - and revealed new potential. With one-size-fits-all-bureaucratic-decision-makers wanting one generic solution though, I don't hold out a lot of hope for tailored bespoke solutions for crosswalks, sidewalks, etc. Eg. I must note that I'm typing this on an antiquated default qwerty layout on my iPad.
    Last edited by KC; 19-10-2015 at 05:07 PM.

  31. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by workworkwork View Post
    Our neighborhood street (but not alleyways) were done. It seems the poles are too far apart for these lights as there are really dim spots in between. Any vehicles parked block the light to the sidewalks. The yards are dark as not much light is cast.
    Our friends live in a converted neighbourhood with many dark zones, in so much as I've nearly had an accident. The contrast is akin to a military digital camouflage pattern, or so it appears.

  32. #132
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    ^Much of that effect is the excessive blue knocking out your night vision.

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    Some of this discussion needs to be more specific, the first neighbourhoods to get LED got a more glarey bluer colour. Later neighbourhoods got/are getting an adjusted colour.

    Personally I prefer either over those slobbish orange things. I remember when the orange ones were introduced in the '80s, and always considered them a step backwards. The previous generation technology, like the LEDs, made the snow sparkle like diamonds, and you could see the colours of people's scarfs and jackets.
    Not really. The precursor to sodium vapor lamps was mercury vapor, which had very little red output and made everything ghoulishly green.

    The low color temperature of sodium vapor is ideal for medium brightness night lighting where it can help you see in the illuminated areas, but preserves your night vision for areas in shadow. The high color temperature LEDs should be reserved for very low illumination levels (think of a full moon), with lower color temperatures (3000 K or less) used for brighter lighting.
    Last edited by Titanium48; 20-10-2015 at 12:54 AM.

  33. #133

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    Age also plays a huge effect in terms of night vision. I don't know how LEDs and aging eyes relate though.

  34. #134

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    I'm not old and I don't like 'em.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  35. #135

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    Then you may soon love them or hate them. Read this article, beyond the quote below, and see what it says about LEDs:

    Lighting Through the Ages

    Published: March 2009
    By Pat Woods

    Starting around age 40, a person’s ability to see gradually diminishes. ...

    Aging takes its toll on the visual system in a number of ways. Vision experts agree less light reaches the back of aging eyes, pupils get smaller and the lenses thicken, absorbing more light. In addition, aging eyes lose their ability to distinguish the contrast and sharpness of images and vividness of colors. Decreased vision contributes to falls or other accidents. Good lighting can help prevent potentially life-threatening injuries.

    Older adults lose peripheral vision, causing their visual world to narrow. Their reaction time slows to enable the occipital cortex to interpret what is seen. They lose night vision and also may develop cataracts that cause blurriness. Some develop macular degeneration (common with diabetes), causing loss of central vision.

    Loss of sensation to the lower extremities is another aging problem, according to Cris Rowan, an occupational therapist in Sechelt, British Columbia.

    “Peripheral neuropathy causes seniors to rely more heavily on vision for mobility, because often they aren’t able to ‘feel’ their feet. All these factors contribute to increased risk of falls,” Rowan said.

    In addition, a delayed adaptation from light to dark is a challenge for seniors. Their eyes adapt slowly to different lighting levels, making them susceptible to falls in halls, entrances and stairs. Glare from poorly shaded lighting sources, reflective surfaces and large building apertures can cause acute discomfort.

    ...

    http://www.ecmag.com/section/lightin...g-through-ages

    Keeping Baby Boomers Mobile
    By Roger W. Cobb and Joseph F. Coughlin

    Few would define 38 or 40 as old. Yet, even in the late 30s and early 40s the aging eye needs more light to see adequately at night. The field of view narrows over time, making it difficult to see many objects such as an entering vehicle, a darting bicycle, or a pedestrian. Likewise, more time is needed to adjust and see clearly after the glare of headlights. All this makes driving a problem through middle age and into one's senior years.

    After age 50, ..."


    http://www.intransitionmag.org/archi..._planning.aspx
    Last edited by KC; 20-10-2015 at 06:16 PM.

  36. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Much of that effect is the excessive blue knocking out your night vision.

    The precursor to sodium vapor lamps was mercury vapor, which had very little red output and made everything ghoulishly green.

    The low color temperature of sodium vapor is ideal for medium brightness night lighting where it can help you see in the illuminated areas, but preserves your night vision for areas in shadow. The high color temperature LEDs should be reserved for very low illumination levels (think of a full moon), with lower color temperatures (3000 K or less) used for brighter lighting.
    I've read similar reports and studies, I didn't know the shorter wavelengths affected night vision makes sense though the same goes for monitors and the like. Also, the blue rays of the spectrum likely accelerate age-related macular degeneration (AMD) more than any other rays . . . thank you for the succinct post.

  37. #137

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    Well I guess not matter how young I think I am, I can't control what my eyes do. It does seem as though I have lost some night vision capacity.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  38. #138

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    but, cars have headlights, and sensors, and may soon be self driving... And don't cities want to be more walkable?

    Are walkers supposed to be second class citizens compared to drivers?


    Walkers should all carry flashlights.


    City defends switch to LED streetlights
    By Randy Hanson on Nov 11, 2015 at 1:22 p.m.

    The main complaint seems to be that the light emitting diodes don’t provide enough light, leaving more sidewalk and area around intersections in the dark.
    ...

    Zeuli and Soltis admitted that the LED lights don’t illuminate as large of an area as the old sodium lights. But they said the purpose of streetlights was never to light up every sidewalk in the city.

    “It was dark mid-block before,” Zeuli said. “It isn’t the intent to have every inch of sidewalk mid-block illuminated. It never was -- never will be.”


    http://www.hudsonstarobserver.com/ne...d-streetlights
    Last edited by KC; 20-11-2015 at 10:47 PM.

  39. #139

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    no they dont need to be fully lit. light pollution is a huge issue.

  40. #140

  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoebsPeugot208 View Post
    no they dont need to be fully lit. light pollution is a huge issue.
    And that's what I've been trying to point out throughout this thread. A one-size fits all approach with high mounted wide broadcast lighting worked fine with single bulb, single lens units, but with LEDs there can easily be single or multiple LEDs, that are task orientated with differing levels of lighting and directionality as well. (Basically "task lighting".)

    Sensors can also provide far more control. For instance, energy usage could be cut in the winter, as sensors adjust lighting levels depending on the degree of snow cover, or at dusk and dawn, thus reducing light pollution. Central control, which seems to be on the technological horizon, could also adjust down lighting levels during clear skies with full moons.

    Note that we want to cut our coal plant reliance and that changes the whole dynamics because coal is base load demand driven, which is when the streetlights are being used. So it's no longer just an issue of the financial savings but also the sourcing of the power, so streetlighting is thus even more 'costly' in many respects than a simple dollar analysis would show.
    Last edited by KC; 22-11-2015 at 09:35 AM.

  42. #142

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Omg that's cool, i want one. Wonder what would happen if pointed it off condo balcony?

    With a bit of luck, as this technology improves, we can get rid of night time. Maybe put some solar panels in space and beam the lights down. Maybe animals and humans could evolve to not need sleep then? Can be used for advertising as well. Future is bright (gotta where shades)
    Last edited by moahunter; 22-11-2015 at 04:33 PM.

  43. #143

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    Our city neighbourhood has a mixture of LED's and Sodium, taking the dogs out last evening the snow under the LED"s had a purple hue like someone used a highlighter pen, kind of pretty.

    Although, looking up at the canopy the falling reflective snow was glaring. Sodium seems to be much easier on the eyes under these conditions, my better-half really notices this while driving. This is likely a key reason why those new tall multi-cluster induction-tube installations on highways and freeways are amber, driving on SWP freeway the colour temperature is the same side-by-side old vs. new.

  44. #144

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Legion View Post
    Omg that's cool, i want one. Wonder what would happen if pointed it off condo balcony?

    With a bit of luck, as this technology improves, we can get rid of night time. Maybe put some solar panels in space and beam the lights down. Maybe animals and humans could evolve to not need sleep then? Can be used for advertising as well. Future is bright (gotta where shades)
    You might be onto something there! Think of the efficiency! Maybe low level lighting to be enhanced where needed by on the ground lighting. Say full moon level that would be acceptable by people.

    Remember the Russians trying to use a mirror in space to light a town.


    http://www.nytimes.com/1993/01/12/sc...pagewanted=all

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...s-1470767.html



    Mirrors in Norway...
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...to-valley.html
    Last edited by KC; 24-11-2015 at 02:59 PM.

  45. #145

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    LED light pollution: Can we save energy and save the night?


    by Mark Crawford
    New streetlight installations have resulted in a dramatic increase in scattered light, but cities can avoid adding to it by asking the right questions.

    5 October 2015, SPIE Newsroom.

    http://spie.org/x115768.xml?highligh...icleID=x115768

  46. #146

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    ^ Interesting article, thanks.

  47. #147

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    The wifi, dimming to save money, etc are all interesting but it's disappointing that no one seems to be interested in actually improving the lighting designs and creating custom designs for lights near intersections, near separated walkways, near crosswalks, improved light dispersion and minimized waste, etc.

    Revolutionary’ street lights save bundles - but not for Ga.’s cities
    2:35 p.m. Friday, May 6, 2016 | Filed in: Business

    “Utilities want to save energy, but they only want to save energy during peak demand hours,” such as summer afternoons when air conditioners are running full blast, said Lepard.

    http://www.ajc.com/news/business/rev...t-not-f/nrHm6/
    Last edited by KC; 12-05-2016 at 08:30 PM.

  48. #148

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    More reasons for the manufacturers to design better lights.


    Light pollution 'affects 80% of global population'
    By Rebecca Morelle
    Science Correspondent, BBC News
    10 June 2016
    From the section Science & Environment

    For some though the artificial glow was even greater, said Dr Kyba.
    "About 14% of the world's population don't even use their night-time vision," he explained.
    "The night is so bright that they use their colour daytime vision to look up at the sky."...

    ...important for development and safety, technology needed to improve.

    "There are a lot of street lights that are not particularly well designed," he explained.

    "They shine light into areas that are not useful - so up into the sky, for example, isn't really useful for anybody.

    "There's a big difference between having a well-lit street, which means everybody can get around really easily and safely, and a brightly lit street, which could mean there's too much light and it's not helping anyone."

    http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-36492596

  49. #149

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    Why you should be worried about connected street lights
    By Jamie Carter 3 days ago World of tech

    Whose bright idea was this?

    http://www.techradar.com/news/world-...lights-1327834


    Not exactly LEDs but interesting and maybe a concept for use elsewhere via streetlights .
    HAWK lighting...

    Lights on for safety: High-tech crossing signals put protecting pedestrians at forefront

    Utilizing an irregular flash pattern similar to what is used on emergency vehicles, RRFBs show an 88 percent compliance rate of drivers yielding to pedestrians, compared to 18 percent when standard crossing signs are installed, federal studies show

    http://www.therepublic.com/2016/09/0...on_for_safety/
    Last edited by KC; 08-09-2016 at 06:43 PM.

  50. #150
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    2700 K white LEDs would be a big improvement over the 4000 - 5000 K versions for bright urban street lighting, and a light yellow filter to remove the remnants of the 440 - 450 nm blue emission would be even better. Efficiency would be a bit lower, but glare reduction and preservation of night vision would make up for a slightly lower illumination level.

    Amber LEDs are an interesting possibility. They are not more efficient than white right now, but they could be in the future. The theoretical maximum efficiency for a phosphor-type white LED is 300-400 lumens / watt, depending on the color temperature and minimum acceptable CRI, while a yellow LED could theoretically reach over 600 lumens / watt. White LEDs are now well over halfway to the limit, while current yellow LEDs are below 25% of the limit. They would be a slightly more yellow and less orange version of a low pressure sodium lamp, with very poor color rendering but excellent preservation of night vision - perfect for highway interchanges where you quickly pass through a lighted area and then it becomes dark again.

    Very low level illumination with high color temperature LEDs could also be considered. The idea would be to simulate a full moon rather than brighly light an area.

  51. #151

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    Restrictions on incandescent light bulbs just a joke

    I just came back from Toronto during the TIFF festival.

    Going a round to bars, restaurants, stores and homes, everyone has these vintage Edison style light bulbs. You can buy them in all the stores. Many of the restaurants I went to or looked into had 40, 50 or 60 of them glowing dimly, increasing not only the amount of energy used compared to a normal incandescent bulb by probably a factor of four but also increasing the air conditioning load.

    I admit I like them but how come these things are allowed? Is it because they can sell them for $10 each compared to 2 for a dollar of the ordinary type. Is it all about profit for the huge light bulb manufacturers and the whole efficiency thing is just a ruse to ban them? I saw some LED versions Edison style light bulbs for sale but not in use, in any place I went.

    IMHO, if they wanted to ban inefficient light bulbs, the vintage ones would be the first banned.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Restrictions on incandescent light bulbs just a joke

    I just came back from Toronto during the TIFF festival.

    Going a round to bars, restaurants, stores and homes, everyone has these vintage Edison style light bulbs. You can buy them in all the stores. Many of the restaurants I went to or looked into had 40, 50 or 60 of them glowing dimly, increasing not only the amount of energy used compared to a normal incandescent bulb by probably a factor of four but also increasing the air conditioning load.

    I admit I like them but how come these things are allowed? Is it because they can sell them for $10 each compared to 2 for a dollar of the ordinary type. Is it all about profit for the huge light bulb manufacturers and the whole efficiency thing is just a ruse to ban them? I saw some LED versions Edison style light bulbs for sale but not in use, in any place I went.

    IMHO, if they wanted to ban inefficient light bulbs, the vintage ones would be the first banned.
    Yeah I've always loved the look of the antique style bulbs. My grandparents home had the real things. I've wondered about why they are appearing now except what's called now steampunk design, is cycling back through the retail world.

    By the way, this discussion should probably be in one of the other LED threads.

  53. #153

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    Noticing the warmer LED's around the city. Much improved. 100% OK with the updated model they're using.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  54. #154
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  55. #155

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post

    By the way, this discussion should probably be in one of the other LED threads.
    You are right, hit the wrong thread
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  56. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Noticing the warmer LED's around the city. Much improved. 100% OK with the updated model they're using.
    If they have a new preferred design, I wonder if they'll change out the earlier LED streetlight instalations

  57. #157

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    This isn't really street lighting but it shows where things are going...



    Schréder installs UK’s first wi-fi streetlight - Smart Cities World

    LED lighting firm Schréder has installed a multi-functional smart lighting column at Stadium MK, Milton Keynes, home to MK Dons Football Club.

    The Shuffle is positioned in front of the stadium’s box office and superstore.

    The interactive column includes 360 degree LED lighting, closed-circuit television (CCTV) to monitor the reception entrance, a public address speaker for match day announcements and wireless internet (wi-fi) connectivity for visitors.

    The modular nature of the Shuffle means that it can be upgraded at any point to include additional functionality such as mobile device charging and specialist advertising features.

    https://smartcitiesworld.net/news/sc...reetlight-1233

    Futuristic Utility Pole: Solar, Battery, WiFi, 4G, and EV Charging
    http://www.engineering.com/Electroni...-Charging.aspx



    Bolding is mine

    Smart streetlights, public Wi-Fi coming soon to Dallas' West End | Technology | Dallas News

    One of Dallas’ oldest neighborhoods -- the West End -- will be home to some of the city's newest technology, including free public Wi-Fi, streetlights that measure air pollution and detect noise and an app that makes it easy to find an open parking spot.
    The West End will serve as a testing ground for the Dallas Innovation Alliance, a public-private partnership that includes the city of Dallas and about two dozen large companies and local foundations.
    Today, the Dallas Innovation Alliance announced the first projects that will turn the historic neighborhood into a "living laboratory" for ways that technology could cut costs, boost energy-efficiency and improve public health in the city.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/business/t...-soon-west-end


    Last edited by KC; 23-12-2016 at 07:00 AM.

  58. #158

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    Beneath all those altruistic-looking motives is very likely government backing to increase mass surveillance by offering people "free" stuff.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Beneath all those altruistic-looking motives is very likely government backing to increase mass surveillance by offering people "free" stuff.
    In the surveillace-camera saturated UK I can see that being a strong possibility.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  60. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Beneath all those altruistic-looking motives is very likely government backing to increase mass surveillance by offering people "free" stuff.
    In the surveillace-camera saturated UK I can see that being a strong possibility.
    'Soon to be coming to a commuity near you.'

  61. #161

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    I drive down a converted street every day to/from work & thanks to the crushing winter darkness I've gotten to see the new LED fixtures in action plenty & I gotta say I love 'em. Can't get away from the sodium lights soon enough imho.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  62. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I drive down a converted street every day to/from work & thanks to the crushing winter darkness I've gotten to see the new LED fixtures in action plenty & I gotta say I love 'em. Can't get away from the sodium lights soon enough imho.
    Yeah, I sure don't mind them. However, I am surprised at the amount of horizontal light (waste light) coming off them.

    Also, I'm still disappointed at the lack of creativity in design and use. Every crosswalk for instance could be better lit. Same with sidewalks below and and behind streetlighing.

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    They're still too harsh and blue IMHO. The newer ones are better, but they should really either be lowering the illumination level to no more than 10x the full moon, or lowering the color temperature to below 3000K (the color of an incandescent bulb). Excess blue and night vision do not mix well.

    I remember noticing how much easier on the eyes the new sodium vapor lights were after the conversion from mercury vapor ~35 years ago. The blue LEDs are a step back to that era.

  64. #164

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    I find the one's they installed along 116 St from 106-111 Ave to be quite nice (these are the ones I've mentioned). They're a titch blue, but far lower in overall intensity than the legacy street illumination used elsewhere on my Oliver-NAIT commute. As for the crosswalks, 116 St was done with traffic calming reconfigurations & I find the closer-to-stock pedestrian lights they used to be a bit overdone in comparison.

    I know EPCOR is using a wide variety of different LED setups.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  65. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    I find ...

    I know EPCOR is using a wide variety of different LED setups.
    Yeah, I talked with a guy last year that was saying some areas were getting what he saw was a problematic mix of different brands of LED lights and that would come back to haunt everyone.

  66. #166

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    L.A. Has a Streetlight That Can Charge Your Car

    ““We could have temperature, CO2, we could have gunshot detection. We could have traffic volume information. There’s not a limit,” said Ebrahimian.”

    http://www.govtech.com/fs/automation...-Your-Car.html





    Direct Line's Prototype 'Smart' Pedestrian Crossing Will Adapt to Keep You Safe - Interactive (video) - Creativity Online

    Excerpt:
    “...Once again conceived by Saatchi & Saatchi London, the prototype "Smart Crossing" is a responsive road crossing that differentiates between vehicles, pedestrians and cyclists automatically. It uses computer vision technology to "see" exactly what's happening around it and an LED road surface to adapt its markings and signals in real-time without manual input.

    For example, it could widen to accomodate large groups, outside a school for instance; or it could adapt to highlight a pedestrian taking emergency or risky action, like a child running into the road. It could also use colors to grab the attention of pedestrians glued to their phones, and light up pedestrians to make them easier to see when high-sided vehicles are around. ...”


    http://creativity-online.com/work/di...crossing/52906
    Last edited by KC; 28-10-2017 at 08:23 AM.

  67. #167
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    The city recently installed new LED streetlights at the corner of 97 St and 111 Av. I'd say they finally got the color temperature right - these ones actually look good and are not annoyingly blue.

  68. #168
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    Winnipeg has noticed that LED traffic signals do not melt snow, unlike bulbs. Caused some problems with a recent snowstorm
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...snow-1.3465301

  69. #169

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    I haven’t noticed this on other roads but I recently drove through the city on the Yellowhead where a lot of new LED lights are in place. It wasn’t all that nice to drive because there were a lot of weird dark spots on the roadway under the LED streetlights. They were especially noticeable around 156st.

    Also, where the lights were in the centre median, the left lane was lit (except for all the dark spots) but the right lane was significantly darker and poorly lit. Very strange and very uneven light quality and distribution.

    Moreover as I drive west the extent of the poor quality LED lighting became very apparent as I entered a section far more uniformely lit by the old streetlights still in place (I think it was west of the 170st exit).



    Maybe a similar sort of issue:

    Edinburgh residents lash out against LED streetlights that 'leave them in dark' | Lux Magazine | Luxreview.com | Americas | Home page
    Excerpt:

    While the brighter levels 'seem to help a bit,' there is an ongoing problem with the beam spread, which leaves 'bright spots and dark spots,' said Councillor Allan Jackson.

    'The new lights are going into lamp posts which were never designed for them,' he said, noting for example that they don't throw light back toward front doors as happened previously.

    Residents in many other towns and cities have lodged similar complaints about LEDs and dark spots (see related stories below).


    http://luxreview.com/article/2015/07...-them-in-dark-
    Last edited by KC; 27-12-2017 at 06:57 PM.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I haven’t noticed this on other roads but I recently drove through the city on the Yellowhead where a lot of new LED lights are in place. It wasn’t all that nice to drive because there were a lot of weird dark spots on the roadway under the LED streetlights. They were especially noticeable around 156st.

    Also, where the lights were in the centre median, the left lane was lit (except for all the dark spots) but the right lane was significantly darker and poorly lit. Very strange and very uneven light quality and distribution.

    Moreover as I drive west the extent of the poor quality LED lighting became very apparent as I entered a section far more uniformely lit by the old streetlights still in place (I think it was west of the 170st exit).



    Maybe a similar sort of issue:

    Edinburgh residents lash out against LED streetlights that 'leave them in dark' | Lux Magazine | Luxreview.com | Americas | Home page
    Excerpt:

    While the brighter levels 'seem to help a bit,' there is an ongoing problem with the beam spread, which leaves 'bright spots and dark spots,' said Councillor Allan Jackson.

    'The new lights are going into lamp posts which were never designed for them,' he said, noting for example that they don't throw light back toward front doors as happened previously.

    Residents in many other towns and cities have lodged similar complaints about LEDs and dark spots (see related stories below).


    http://luxreview.com/article/2015/07...-them-in-dark-

    Oh but didn't you know.... a streetlight shining light on someone's front porch is light 'trespass' (a ridiculous term if I have ever heard one), and to be eliminated at all costs. Ridiculous!!

  71. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Winnipeg has noticed that LED traffic signals do not melt snow, unlike bulbs. Caused some problems with a recent snowstorm
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...snow-1.3465301
    Yes, it is an issue, seen the effect in other cities as well. Even see it on cars that taillights get snowed over and do not melt. My LED xmas lights on my cedars, are covered in snow and cannot be seen at all.

    The article states that LED's last twice as long, I sure hope they last 10 times longer or more.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  72. #172

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    Opinion: New LED streetlights healthier and safer for drivers and pedestrians
    BY ROD E. MCCONNELL
    ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: FEB 20, 2018
    Excerpt:

    LED streetlights, which initially were installed shortly after their appearance, were 5,000 Kelvin in colour temperature and appeared blue and garish. These were followed by 4,000 Kelvin streetlights which did not provide as much blue. The city is now installing 3,000 Kelvin lights and, with recent improvements, will probably be shortly considering 2,200 Kelvin lights (warm white).

    Of consideration, there is a very special and highly innovative new luminaire called Lumicana, designed in Edmonton with international help, and engineered by a local company called Lumican. This new light is specifically created for Light-Efficient Communities, which Edmonton is in the process of becoming. This luminaire will have a colour temperature of ...”

    “.... In order to improve visibility, the luminaire must be well-shielded so that any direct light (from the LED and lens) to the driver or pedestrian’s eyes is eliminated.

    Current luminaires are not well-designed in that respect as they have a direct light cut-off at the horizon line of the luminaire. This results in streetlights being directly visible for many blocks if you are below the horizon line, which is almost always the case. You would be subject to high glare and your pupils would contract in reaction, thus further reducing your ability to see well. ...”

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...nd-pedestrians
    Last edited by KC; 20-02-2018 at 05:38 PM.

  73. #173
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    The unsuitability of high color temperatures for street lighting and the need for effective shielding for good visibility was well known before the city started installing LED streetlights, yet it is only with the most recent installations (within the last year or so) that they have finally gotten it close to right. Better late than never I suppose.

    Now we need to get the auto manufacturers on board and enforce a 3000 K maximum for car headlights so there are no more horrible blue headlights ruining your night vision.

  74. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    The unsuitability of high color temperatures for street lighting and the need for effective shielding for good visibility was well known before the city started installing LED streetlights, yet it is only with the most recent installations (within the last year or so) that they have finally gotten it close to right. Better late than never I suppose.

    Now we need to get the auto manufacturers on board and enforce a 3000 K maximum for car headlights so there are no more horrible blue headlights ruining your night vision.
    So is it time to go back to the earlier LED installations and tear out any earlier substandard lights?

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    ^ While I would like that if I lived in one of the neighborhoods with the high color temperature lights, more realistically I would expect that they will be replaced with better designs as they reach end of life (approximately 10 years after installation).

  76. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    ^ While I would like that if I lived in one of the neighborhoods with the high color temperature lights, more realistically I would expect that they will be replaced with better designs as they reach end of life (approximately 10 years after installation).
    If so, that’s the very problem I was highlighting when I started this thread, but that was in 2012. The replacements aren’t far off now.


    Smart street lighting is driving smart city projects, says Will Gibson, Telensa
    Opinions
    02 Feb 2018
    As cities take advantage of LED conversion projects to add strategic streetlight connectivity, a new study indicates that many cities are not thinking long term when switching to LED

    https://smartcitiesworld.net/opinion...gibson-telensa

    Bolding mine
    Last edited by KC; 22-02-2018 at 09:30 PM.

  77. #177

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    According to data posted by the city of Edmonton, this is the breakdown of street lighting by type of lamp:


    • High-pressure sodium: 76251
    • Incandescent: 13
    • LED: 33309
    • Metal halide: 1851
    • Mercury vapor: 1
    • Total: 111425


    So the conversion is now 29.9% done.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 26-02-2018 at 09:43 AM.

  78. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Opinion: New LED streetlights healthier and safer for drivers and pedestrians
    BY ROD E. MCCONNELL
    ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: FEB 20, 2018
    Excerpt:

    LED streetlights, which initially were installed shortly after their appearance, were 5,000 Kelvin in colour temperature and appeared blue and garish. These were followed by 4,000 Kelvin streetlights which did not provide as much blue. The city is now installing 3,000 Kelvin lights and, with recent improvements, will probably be shortly considering 2,200 Kelvin lights (warm white).

    Of consideration, there is a very special and highly innovative new luminaire called Lumicana, designed in Edmonton with international help, and engineered by a local company called Lumican. This new light is specifically created for Light-Efficient Communities, which Edmonton is in the process of becoming. This luminaire will have a colour temperature of ...”

    “.... In order to improve visibility, the luminaire must be well-shielded so that any direct light (from the LED and lens) to the driver or pedestrian’s eyes is eliminated.

    Current luminaires are not well-designed in that respect as they have a direct light cut-off at the horizon line of the luminaire. This results in streetlights being directly visible for many blocks if you are below the horizon line, which is almost always the case. You would be subject to high glare and your pupils would contract in reaction, thus further reducing your ability to see well. ...”

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...nd-pedestrians
    Either the guy who wrote that has no clue what he's talking about, or they use additional filters on the lens! Typical LED light is between 5000-6000k which is slightly blue with 5000 usually considered "daylight". Regular halogen headlights are 4300k, and those very yellow lights people run as fog lights are 3000k.

    Here's some 3000k fog lights in comparison to normal streetlights and headlights:


    2200k would be almost orange.

    Of course the way our eyes see color is very much dependant on what other light is nearby, since we notice the differences more. Seeing LED headlights on newer cars near the old orange streetlights make them look very blue even though they're quite white. But when you're on a street that has LED lighting, those same headlights look white. Same with during daylight, those headlights look white. It's how our eyes perceive colors. My laptop for instance also automatically shifts the screen to warmer colors in the evening, which I don't notice until I look at my wife's laptop that doesn't do that, and hers looks very bright and blue.

    I for one like the LED streetlights. They do a good job, and if there are dark spots anywhere, they can always add more and still be more energy efficient. But if you have issues seeing the road while driving because of the street lights, maybe you should turn on your headlights or clean the muck off of them. If you can't see then, how would you ever drive down a dark highway?

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Opinion: New LED streetlights healthier and safer for drivers and pedestrians
    BY ROD E. MCCONNELL
    ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED: FEB 20, 2018
    Excerpt:

    LED streetlights, which initially were installed shortly after their appearance, were 5,000 Kelvin in colour temperature and appeared blue and garish. These were followed by 4,000 Kelvin streetlights which did not provide as much blue. The city is now installing 3,000 Kelvin lights and, with recent improvements, will probably be shortly considering 2,200 Kelvin lights (warm white).

    Of consideration, there is a very special and highly innovative new luminaire called Lumicana, designed in Edmonton with international help, and engineered by a local company called Lumican. This new light is specifically created for Light-Efficient Communities, which Edmonton is in the process of becoming. This luminaire will have a colour temperature of ...”

    “.... In order to improve visibility, the luminaire must be well-shielded so that any direct light (from the LED and lens) to the driver or pedestrian’s eyes is eliminated.

    Current luminaires are not well-designed in that respect as they have a direct light cut-off at the horizon line of the luminaire. This results in streetlights being directly visible for many blocks if you are below the horizon line, which is almost always the case. You would be subject to high glare and your pupils would contract in reaction, thus further reducing your ability to see well. ...”

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...nd-pedestrians
    Either the guy who wrote that has no clue what he's talking about, or they use additional filters on the lens! Typical LED light is between 5000-6000k which is slightly blue with 5000 usually considered "daylight". Regular halogen headlights are 4300k, and those very yellow lights people run as fog lights are 3000k.

    Here's some 3000k fog lights in comparison to normal streetlights and headlights:


    2200k would be almost orange.

    Of course the way our eyes see color is very much dependant on what other light is nearby, since we notice the differences more. Seeing LED headlights on newer cars near the old orange streetlights make them look very blue even though they're quite white. But when you're on a street that has LED lighting, those same headlights look white. Same with during daylight, those headlights look white. It's how our eyes perceive colors. My laptop for instance also automatically shifts the screen to warmer colors in the evening, which I don't notice until I look at my wife's laptop that doesn't do that, and hers looks very bright and blue.

    I for one like the LED streetlights. They do a good job, and if there are dark spots anywhere, they can always add more and still be more energy efficient. But if you have issues seeing the road while driving because of the street lights, maybe you should turn on your headlights or clean the muck off of them. If you can't see then, how would you ever drive down a dark highway?
    Yes LEDs should be able to be designed to eliminate the dark spots, not to make them worse.

    I’m on my second vehicle with the fisheye lenses. Horrible, horrible things for driving on dark and wet highways.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by alkeli View Post

    Either the guy who wrote that has no clue what he's talking about, or they use additional filters on the lens! Typical LED light is between 5000-6000k which is slightly blue with 5000 usually considered "daylight". Regular halogen headlights are 4300k, and those very yellow lights people run as fog lights are 3000k.

    Here's some 3000k fog lights in comparison to normal streetlights and headlights:


    2200k would be almost orange.

    Of course the way our eyes see color is very much dependant on what other light is nearby, since we notice the differences more. Seeing LED headlights on newer cars near the old orange streetlights make them look very blue even though they're quite white. But when you're on a street that has LED lighting, those same headlights look white. Same with during daylight, those headlights look white. It's how our eyes perceive colors. My laptop for instance also automatically shifts the screen to warmer colors in the evening, which I don't notice until I look at my wife's laptop that doesn't do that, and hers looks very bright and blue.

    I for one like the LED streetlights. They do a good job, and if there are dark spots anywhere, they can always add more and still be more energy efficient. But if you have issues seeing the road while driving because of the street lights, maybe you should turn on your headlights or clean the muck off of them. If you can't see then, how would you ever drive down a dark highway?
    I've driven down a few dark highways with dirty headlights. I can see fine once my eyes adapt, but that gets ruined when I encounter oncoming traffic, especially if they have high color temperature headlights. The dark spots between streetlights (and difficulties seeing in general) are not usually a result of of lack of light, they are a result of uneven light distribution. Your eyes adapt to the brightest areas, and you can't see well where there is less light. Toning down the bright spots would be just as effective as filling in the dark spots. The problem isn't new (it is a result of using light poles that are too far apart compared to their height), but it can be exaggerated by the sharper cutoffs of LED luminiares.

    Yes, 5000-5500 K is "daylight" and will look white during the day, but it is a harsh blue at night. The true color of the moon is actually a grey-brown (much like dark rocks on Earth) and as a result moonlight is not the color of sunlight, but closer to 4000 K. Despite that, moonlight also appears quite blue at night. Bluer light sources are ideal for very low level (less than moonlight) night lighting because the rod cells in the eye are most sensitive to blue light, but streetlights and headlights operate at much higher levels of illumination where the cone cells (which are most sensitive to yellow) dominate vision.

    You are also correct that 2200 K would be yellow-orange. A high pressure sodium vapor lamp is about 2200 K, although an LED would have much better color rendering and would probably appear more yellow, something like a flame or one of those vintage-style incandescent bulbs with the stretched-out filament. That might be taking it too far - 2700 K (non-halogen incandescent color) might be the best for streetlights.

    Standard incandescent (halogen) headlights are definitely not 4300 K. That is several hundred degrees above the melting point of tungsten. Incandescent lamps cannot be run above about 3200 K for more than a few hours before they burn out, and need to be below 3000K to have a reasonable lifetime as headlights. Only the blue filtered incandescent bulbs will produce light with a spectrum close to 4300 K. I once bought a car where the previous owner had installed those, and I hated them. I changed them back to standard bulbs after the first time driving at night on the highway. The yellow tinted fog lights likely use bulbs that operate near 3000 K, but the yellow filter will lower the effective color temperature from there by removing the blue light.

    As for the color of LEDs themselves, they can be tuned to whatever is desired. A "white" LED is actually a 440 nm blue LED with a phosphor layer over top to convert some or all of the blue into longer wavelength colors. For a high color temperature a significant fraction of the blue is allowed through, while lower color temperatures use more phosphor and convert more of the blue to longer wavelengths.
    Last edited by Titanium48; 28-02-2018 at 10:06 PM.

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