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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #8401
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    Macewan Station is already built to accommodate 5 car trains and the platform width is 9m which is what every other station is built to. The part of the station that has a capacity of 100 is the small pedestrian bridge across the track, and as long as people continue down the stairs and fill up the platform below it really shouldn't be an issue. You can also walk west 100m and come into the station by way of the intersection at 105 and 105 and avoid that bottleneck altogether.

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    It seems Belvedere is longer then the rest on the Capital line because of the long platform
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  3. #8403

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    Quote Originally Posted by realkevbo View Post
    Macewan Station is already built to accommodate 5 car trains and the platform width is 9m which is what every other station is built to. The part of the station that has a capacity of 100 is the small pedestrian bridge across the track, and as long as people continue down the stairs and fill up the platform below it really shouldn't be an issue. You can also walk west 100m and come into the station by way of the intersection at 105 and 105 and avoid that bottleneck altogether.
    And another reason for bottlenecks at macewan station is frequency of trains. At Coliseum, they could push one train after another. Here, they can only do every 10-15 minutes due to the signalling issue.

  4. #8404

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    Quote Originally Posted by realkevbo View Post
    The part of the station that has a capacity of 100 is the small pedestrian bridge across the track, and as long as people continue down the stairs and fill up the platform below it really shouldn't be an issue.
    Thanks for the detailed response. That doesn't sound too difficult to upgrade. Does ETS or the city have any plans to improve the bottleneck?

  5. #8405

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    With Sears soon to be vacated, I wonder if that would allow some tweaks to the proposed Kingsway station. Unless they have another tenant lined up right away, Sears can be renovated to be a part of the new station, or at the very least have a pedway attached to it. This could also help minimize the impact to existing parking which I'm sure Kingsway would be interested in.

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    Maybe Kingsway can attract Target or Eaton's to move in. Is Zellers still open for business?

    Ok I'm being facetious here. With shopping malls being turned into medical service centres and a mall as a afterthought, the shopping mall thanks to online vendors like Amazon, are being eroded away like a grain elevator on the prairies. Other then Londonderry mall, lots of these malls will go the way of the dinosaur. I'm not very sanguine about their long term survival.

    That being said has the coe figured out what option they want to go with yet for Metro at RAH?
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    I think their option is do nothing and blame motorists for all the LRT problems.

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    Back in the day we'd call it passing the buck <$
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Maybe Kingsway can attract Target or Eaton's to move in. Is Zellers still open for business?

    Ok I'm being facetious here. With shopping malls being turned into medical service centres and a mall as a afterthought, the shopping mall thanks to online vendors like Amazon, are being eroded away like a grain elevator on the prairies. Other then Londonderry mall, lots of these malls will go the way of the dinosaur. I'm not very sanguine about their long term survival.

    That being said has the coe figured out what option they want to go with yet for Metro at RAH?
    I think the way that malls can remain is they have to continue to re imagine themselves. Residential towers, park n ride facilities, better integrated public transportation whether it is LRT, buses, ride share, etc...
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    I think the way that malls can remain is they have to continue to re imagine themselves. Residential towers, park n ride facilities, better integrated public transportation whether it is LRT, buses, ride share, etc...
    Southgate seems to have found a way to blossom. Their overhaul and growth started around the time when LRT was being planned in detail. Granted, they already had a transit station, but they've done alright.

    Bonnie doon does not look like it will be taking that path. I think there's a bigger opportunity there for TOD with highrises and the like. Ideally, they would blow up Bonnie doon pool and replace it with a super fitness center like the Meadows or Clareview on the mall site. Integrate a new library as well.

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    Kingsway Mall still seems pretty busy even with the big 'dead' department stores.

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    Didn't The Bay at Kingsway recently undergo a substantial renovation? Guess they're not planning on 'doing a Sears'.
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    How much would it cost to tear out the overlapped signalling systems and build both lines on a single system?
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  16. #8416

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    A zillion bucks. There would have to be sensors and controls replaced, software re-configured, maybe onboard changes, and other non-trivial things, all while the lines continue to operate.

    Software integration is a b***h, even without harware integration.
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

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    I wouldn't be laughing Mood, be angry or sad, this is your tax dollars being misspent too.

  18. #8418

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    i think people are laughing because of how inept the Metro line continues to be. And now with the Valley line coming with even more street crossings...i cant even imagine

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    Valley line will be fine, signalling wise. Metro is a disaster because some genius at the city decided to try to integrate a brand new digital signalling system with the Capital line's ancient mechanical one, instead of paying the additional costs to upgrade that as well. Penny wise and pound foolish.

  20. #8420

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    And Thales said that they could do it and accepted the contract on that basis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Valley line will be fine, signalling wise. Metro is a disaster because some genius at the city decided to try to integrate a brand new digital signalling system with the Capital line's ancient mechanical one, instead of paying the additional costs to upgrade that as well. Penny wise and pound foolish.
    I still wouldn't mind hearing the bottom line dollar figure for getting this fixed and fixed properly.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  22. #8422

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Thales said that they could do it and accepted the contract on that basis.
    And we paid them most of the money in advance, like chumps.
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  23. #8423
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    It has been a year now and still, it didn't solve the problem with software glitches.
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    If this came out before the election......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    And Thales said that they could do it and accepted the contract on that basis.
    And we paid them most of the money in advance, like chumps.
    That's how construction invoicing works. You pay as the work progresses. There are quantity surveyors etc. that review said invoicing to ensure that companies aren't over-billing and that kind of thing.

  26. #8426

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    Maybe we need to redefine what "progresses" means to ensure that it also includes "works".
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    If this came out before the election......
    Most of the problems came before the 2017 election, sadly Edmontonians re-elected the previous chair of the Transportation Committee to the Mayor's office. One of the same people that is saying Bonnie Doon will not be a problem for the Valley Line

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    I had to walk home downtown from NAIT today because of train delays. Got my workout too considering I was carrying a ten pound chunk of Halite with me. What's wrong with it now?

    Edit: Also saw a truck with the crossing arms down on his truck box this morning on 107th Ave too LOL.
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    What's right with it.

  30. #8430

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    It's 'shovel ready'...
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    I wonder if the crossing arm that was on top of the truck was responsible for the malfunction.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if the crossing arm that was on top of the truck was responsible for the malfunction.
    I am not sure. I saw someone parked on the wrong side of the crossing arms at 106th approaching the curve at 118th ave today too. It's more likely people being ignorant towards traffic control devices, but if it's a malfunction of the system that's a whole other thing.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

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    Another signal failure on the Metro LRT
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3856654/i...s-wrong-track/

    Saturday morning at around 6:30 a.m. a track signal failed at the NAIT LRT station.

    “A southbound train entered a northbound track. Both of the trains stopped and there was no contact,” said city spokesperson Katherine Sweet.

    “The trains couldn’t move in either direction. One of the trains had to back up until it got to a switch point where it could get back onto another track.”

    There are no details about which train was forced to back up or how close the trains got to one another before they stopped.

    There were passengers on both trains, though an exact number was not immediately available. Sweet said there was no delay in service and safety was not compromised.

    “This is an issue with Thales, our signal contractor. We use their signal system. They are on site investigating what went wrong,” Sweet said.

    Thales did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  34. #8434
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    I don't have a need to use the Metro line. The problem with Metro is 2 competing signaling systems. Thales even said as much from the beginning.

    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...g-company-says

    The link is old but so is this issue.
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  35. #8435

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    What line would a Kingsway stop utilize? The line goes right past it to NAIT (which is really close to the Sears entrance, unless you can't walk). Would they reroute the Metro line?

  36. #8436
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    And you'd think council would learn from the mistakes with the NAIT line and adjust the Mill Woods line ... but nope.

    Bev Esslinger is getting tired of it, but again not tired enough stop transit from wasting money on a bad design.
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3857204/f...ugh-is-enough/

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    Some of the overreaction is amusing though. Some people (e.g. Ryan Jesperson) are saying just shut the Metro line down, tear out the track and restart from scratch.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  38. #8438

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Some people (e.g. Ryan Jesperson) are saying just shut the Transportation Planning Department down, tear out the management and restart from scratch.

    Fixed that for you...
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    Part of me wonders, if the signalling system is caused by the old system, why are all the problems on the new part of the Metro Line?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Some people (e.g. Ryan Jesperson) are saying just shut the Transportation Planning Department down, tear out the management and restart from scratch.

    Fixed that for you...
    Transportation as a stand alone department is already gone.

    Sounds like the City fixed that without you?

  41. #8441

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    Did they tear out ALL the management and start from scratch?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did they tear out ALL the management and start from scratch?
    What does that even mean?

    Firing everyone and hiring new for all management is a complete recipe for disaster.
    If you mean something reasonable and pragmatic that may actually work, given a chance and time, like strategic terminations and shifting managerial responsibilities and departmental 'shuffling' to better functional structures. Yes.

  43. #8443

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    OK

    Just playing with the original statement
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did they tear out ALL the management and start from scratch?
    What does that even mean?

    Firing everyone and hiring new for all management is a complete recipe for disaster.
    If you mean something reasonable and pragmatic that may actually work, given a chance and time, like strategic terminations and shifting managerial responsibilities and departmental 'shuffling' to better functional structures. Yes.
    City Council did turf the transportation department heads and some other admin/management types just a couple of years ago, and the current folks are still cleaning up the mess of the people before them. But I guess that's not enough for some people in these days of instant gratification.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  45. #8445

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Valley line will be fine, signalling wise. Metro is a disaster because some genius at the city decided to try to integrate a brand new digital signalling system with the Capital line's ancient mechanical one, instead of paying the additional costs to upgrade that as well. Penny wise and pound foolish.
    Capital Line's ancient mechanical one? You mean the signal system installed in 2010-2011 is ancient?

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    Would it be plausible to change out the metros system to be the same as the capitals. Sometimes older is better and in this case it seems to be the case. They would then be compatible and everything would work perfecto.

  47. #8447

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did they tear out ALL the management and start from scratch?
    What does that even mean?

    Firing everyone and hiring new for all management is a complete recipe for disaster.
    If you mean something reasonable and pragmatic that may actually work, given a chance and time, like strategic terminations and shifting managerial responsibilities and departmental 'shuffling' to better functional structures. Yes.
    City Council did turf the transportation department heads and some other admin/management types just a couple of years ago, and the current folks are still cleaning up the mess of the people before them. But I guess that's not enough for some people in these days of instant gratification.
    Instant gratification? How about nearly a decade of warnings that the LRT crossing at Whyte/83 street would be a traffic nightmare that only now does the Transportation Department state will result in long traffic delays and suggests that we better get used to it and they have no solution.
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  48. #8448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Did they tear out ALL the management and start from scratch?
    What does that even mean?

    Firing everyone and hiring new for all management is a complete recipe for disaster.
    If you mean something reasonable and pragmatic that may actually work, given a chance and time, like strategic terminations and shifting managerial responsibilities and departmental 'shuffling' to better functional structures. Yes.
    City Council did turf the transportation department heads and some other admin/management types just a couple of years ago, and the current folks are still cleaning up the mess of the people before them. But I guess that's not enough for some people in these days of instant gratification.
    Instant gratification? How about nearly a decade of warnings that the LRT crossing at Whyte/83 street would be a traffic nightmare that only now does the Transportation Department state will result in long traffic delays and suggests that we better get used to it and they have no solution.
    There go the property values.


    Hey, I thought that I heard that the metro-NAIT line nightmare fell largely on City council’s shoulders for its late stage flip on a station site or some such thing (where the needed traffic studies were not then done over from scratch). Is there a simple consensus on what initially triggered all the problems? Bad design from the start or kart minute changes or what?
    Last edited by KC; 13-11-2017 at 08:14 AM.

  49. #8449

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    The traffic studies were only done, well after the 'shovel ready' project was approved and construction of the tunnel was well underway. The Millwoods line was planned for a decade and from reports, the traffic studies were only completed this summer, after the project was also well underway. The studies only confirm what area residents and commuters who know the traffic patterns intimately already knew and tried to warn planners early on. They not only ignored the concerns but outright derision.

    ...don't plan to fail but fail to plan.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Another signal failure on the Metro LRT
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3856654/i...s-wrong-track/

    Saturday morning at around 6:30 a.m. a track signal failed at the NAIT LRT station.

    “A southbound train entered a northbound track. Both of the trains stopped and there was no contact,” said city spokesperson Katherine Sweet.

    “The trains couldn’t move in either direction. One of the trains had to back up until it got to a switch point where it could get back onto another track.”

    There are no details about which train was forced to back up or how close the trains got to one another before they stopped.

    There were passengers on both trains, though an exact number was not immediately available. Sweet said there was no delay in service and safety was not compromised.

    “This is an issue with Thales, our signal contractor. We use their signal system. They are on site investigating what went wrong,” Sweet said.

    Thales did not immediately respond to a request for comment.




    Top_Dawg loves these clusterfuqs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by transitresearcher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Valley line will be fine, signalling wise. Metro is a disaster because some genius at the city decided to try to integrate a brand new digital signalling system with the Capital line's ancient mechanical one, instead of paying the additional costs to upgrade that as well. Penny wise and pound foolish.
    Capital Line's ancient mechanical one? You mean the signal system installed in 2010-2011 is ancient?
    I thought I had read somewhere a couple years ago when all the delays started that the Capital line was still using some extremely ancient equipment in portions of it's signalling system, and getting those ancient portions to play nice with the new Metro system is where most if not all of the problems stem from.

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    Two things. First "extremely ancient" is an over-statement and always was. It's probably similar to Calgary's system and that seems to work just fine even with two separate lines that coordinate over the downtown portion of track. During the fifteen years I lived in Calgary I don't recall a single situation where an incident was caused by a train not knowing what track it was supposed to be on even when track switching adjustments had to be made.

    Second, these recent incidents concern me because they seem to be happening entirely within the range of the *new* system. Assigning docking procedures at NAIT should not be a particularly high tech problem for a software program. And yet it happened. Twice.

    I'm not one of the routine anti-Metro grumblers here. I find the line a useful part of my travel strategy. But these latest incidents worry me. Software failures can be much more catastrophic than mechanical failures.

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    ^

    With normal systems, yes Top_Dawg would agree with you.

    But at the speed the trains on the Metro Line travel - big deal.

    The trains would just bump into each other and result in a couple of little dents.


  54. #8454

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    You got that right indeed...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Part of me wonders, if the signalling system is caused by the old system, why are all the problems on the new part of the Metro Line?
    That's what i sd above
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Would it be plausible to change out the metros system to be the same as the capitals. Sometimes older is better and in this case it seems to be the case. They would then be compatible and everything would work perfecto.
    Has the city voted on what option they want to use yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Part of me wonders, if the signalling system is caused by the old system, why are all the problems on the new part of the Metro Line?
    I sd as much in my post from yesterday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Would it be plausible to change out the metros system to be the same as the capitals. Sometimes older is better and in this case it seems to be the case. They would then be compatible and everything would work perfecto.
    Has the city voted on what option they want to use yet?
    They might want to go back to having a bloke in a Signal Box pulling levers to semaphore signals. Best software there is.
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    It might be an improvement
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    With the millions they spent on software and all the techs and hardware, I would take the semaphore job at $100,000 a year and the COE would save big time.
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  61. #8461

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by transitresearcher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Valley line will be fine, signalling wise. Metro is a disaster because some genius at the city decided to try to integrate a brand new digital signalling system with the Capital line's ancient mechanical one, instead of paying the additional costs to upgrade that as well. Penny wise and pound foolish.
    Capital Line's ancient mechanical one? You mean the signal system installed in 2010-2011 is ancient?
    I thought I had read somewhere a couple years ago when all the delays started that the Capital line was still using some extremely ancient equipment in portions of it's signalling system, and getting those ancient portions to play nice with the new Metro system is where most if not all of the problems stem from.
    That might have been the misinformed media. Different technologies, but certainly by no means ancient technology, and indeed quite new installations. While I don't know of all of the specifics, from a hardware perspective anyways, the equipment that was installed on the NE LRT during the upgrades was the same was what was used on the SLRT. With all of the new equipment installed, they had to bring in new buildings at each of the LRT substations to support the upgraded signal system. If anything has caused problems because it's ancient is the fact that the U-2's have been a lot of trouble to fit with the CBTC equipment.

    Related to what EveB said,
    With the track circuit based signalling technology used on the Capital Line, I don't think you would ever see an incident like that which occurred on the NLRT on Saturday. Track circuit technology uses the physical shunting of the rails by the LRV to determine if a block is occupied or not and that governs the signals. With CBTC it's radios and computers, both of which could be subject to failure... or glitches. I am aware of incidents in Calgary which trains ending up on the same track, but, that was all human error when crossovers were being operated manually, and on 7th Ave, there aren't signals and magnets that would stop a train.

  62. #8462

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Would it be plausible to change out the metros system to be the same as the capitals. Sometimes older is better and in this case it seems to be the case. They would then be compatible and everything would work perfecto.
    Plausible sure, worth it? Probably not. The track circuit technology would require (probably) new building constructed to hold the equipment, and a ductbank to run the associated cabling. I believe there is extra capacity in the ductbank that was built for the NLRT, but whether it's enough is another thing. The embedded track would most likely require parts of it to be dug up to install track circuit equipment.

    Then there's the fact you'd be scrapping the entire CBTC system, which we've already paid for a good portion of.

    What perhaps makes sense would be to retain CBTC as it operates today, north of McEwan, and instead "upgrade" the existing signal system between Churchill and HSS.

    By "upgrade" I mean to cut in some extra blocks and associated equipment so that the track circuits are a bit shorter to allow more frequent trains. Having said that, a lot of the track circuits Downtown are quite short already and it's not uncommon to see one train following another by as little as 90 seconds or even less when one train is running late. At one point I did time how long it took a train to traverse a track circuit, and I believe the longest I found was about 60 seconds and that was somewhere between Grandin and the LRT bridge. Related to that, the signal at the south end of Grandin on the southbound track is the only one in the Downtown section which has an interesting feature. It will upgrade to a green signal as soon as the block is clear. Most signals upgrade to a green if the track ahead is clear, as a train approaches. This signal I believe upgrades within 60-90 seconds assuming a train is running a track speed so it gives a bit of a visual on how frequent trains could be.

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    Signage is down currently at Corona and the NAIT train simply didn't show up. Gotta love putting your faith in this POS when you're in the thick of exams.

  64. #8464
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    Top_Dawg absolutely loves this.

    Coun. Ben Henderson said he's concerned as well.
    "Clearly, it's still not operating as it's supposed to be," he said. "Is this ever going to happen with this system? I think that's a legitimate question.
    "We have to make the most pragmatic decisions to get ourselves there, and if that means, at a certain point, bailing on the system we have, it's certainly something we should consider.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-metro-lrt-signals-safety-1.4400309



    $650 mil later.

  65. #8465
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    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post


    Top_Dawg absolutely loves this.

    Coun. Ben Henderson said he's concerned as well.
    "Clearly, it's still not operating as it's supposed to be," he said. "Is this ever going to happen with this system? I think that's a legitimate question.
    "We have to make the most pragmatic decisions to get ourselves there, and if that means, at a certain point, bailing on the system we have, it's certainly something we should consider.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-metro-lrt-signals-safety-1.4400309



    $650 mil later.
    And years and years and years in court.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  66. #8466

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    $650 Million for a nominal ridership; a slow, short route that screws up the the NE line capacity and traffic along the NAIT line.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  67. #8467

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Signage is down currently at Corona and the NAIT train simply didn't show up.
    This happens all the time. Completely unacceptable. No wonder almost everyone in this city prefers to drive. Our public transit is expensive and practically unusable.

    I have advocated for better public transit in Edmonton my entire life, but with the way it is so terribly managed I am now starting to think it's a complete waste of money and instead of LRT we should invest in some layered freeways to get people around better.

  68. #8468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    $650 Million for a nominal ridership; a slow, short route that screws up the the NE line capacity and traffic along the NAIT line.


    And delays the four buses that service NAIT from downtown to boot.

    Win-Win-Win !!

  69. #8469

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    Is there a case, anywhere else, where a city spent $600+ million for transit improvements, only to both slow down road traffic AND slow down buses and existing trains?

    Not one person is getting anywhere faster since the Metro line opened. Not one.

  70. #8470

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    Valley line is going to be no different, slow trains causing massive traffic tieups

  71. #8471
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Is there a case, anywhere else, where a city spent $600+ million for transit improvements, only to both slow down road traffic AND slow down buses and existing trains?

    Not one person is getting anywhere faster since the Metro line opened. Not one.
    Having not rode the train all the way to NAIT, I would hope the LRT is faster than the bus from Downtown to NAIT?

  72. #8472

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    It's not.

    Neither will the LRT from Millwoods TC to Downtown (Churchill). The bus route 15 already provides as fast as service, and doesn't come with a 1.5 billion dollar price tag, and the bus route already exists, and won't cause more conflict that it will resolve, and is flexible should an incident ever occur.

    But hey - a fixed steel wheel somehow promotes TODs... which is working really well on the existing line at Clareview or Century Park or parts between...isn't it.... (sarcasm)

  73. #8473
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    Yup.

    Good ol' #15.

    Bangladesh Express.


  74. #8474

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Is there a case, anywhere else, where a city spent $600+ million for transit improvements, only to both slow down road traffic AND slow down buses and existing trains?

    Not one person is getting anywhere faster since the Metro line opened. Not one.
    Having not rode the train all the way to NAIT, I would hope the LRT is faster than the bus from Downtown to NAIT?

    Medwards is correct - the Metro LRT between Churchill Station and NAIT crawls along quite slowly, and it takes its time waiting at stations. I would be utterly shocked if it was faster than any of the buses that go between downtown and NAIT.

  75. #8475
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Is there a case, anywhere else, where a city spent $600+ million for transit improvements, only to both slow down road traffic AND slow down buses and existing trains?

    Not one person is getting anywhere faster since the Metro line opened. Not one.
    Having not rode the train all the way to NAIT, I would hope the LRT is faster than the bus from Downtown to NAIT?

    Medwards is correct - the Metro LRT between Churchill Station and NAIT crawls along quite slowly, and it takes its time waiting at stations. I would be utterly shocked if it was faster than any of the buses that go between downtown and NAIT.
    Well of all the disappointments, that would be the final one.

  76. #8476

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    No, the NAIT line disappointments us every day and will continue to do so as far as we can ever see.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  77. #8477
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    On the bright side, it gives every other municipality a real life model of how not to build a LRT line.

    They should be paying CofE for the demo.


  78. #8478

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    Spot on Top Dawg...
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  79. #8479
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No, the NAIT line disappointments us every day and will continue to do so as far as we can ever see.
    You must be fun at parties.

  80. #8480

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    I dance pretty well. You should see my tango and foxtrot.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  81. #8481
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    Metro out to St Albert will never be a reality until this is fixed.

    Some people are musing the whole Metro line, track and all be ripped out and start again.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  82. #8482
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    Not some, lots.

  83. #8483

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    If the citizenry is banging the drum to rip up bad LRT decisions then we should start with Southgate Station. As a user of the system, to my mind, that is where the brutal compromises began. Extra curricular players realized they could tell city hall bureaucrats to go pound sand. They would still reap all the benefits of transit with zero burden (infrastructure/financial). The poor planning of the Metro Line has its genesis in that "negotiation".

    TOD failure follows at Century Park. No consideration for the value of existing LRT line to Coliseum. Crappy, insufficient station for the plaza of the oligarchs. A compromise station for Royal Alex and Kingsway satisfying no one. Thales technical deficiencies are an interesting parallel to the incredibly poor planning of the line itself.

    How does this extrapolate to the Valley Line? Nearctic is nowhere close to starting their development at Strathearn. Regency is ready to substantially lower the bar for all future LRT TOD with their Holyrood Gardens build. What's the over/under on just how useless the Bonnie Doon Mall station will be for users?

  84. #8484

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    ajs, you have posted many examples of how badly the LRT has been planned. I still recall that they did not even begin contacting Southgate about the station location and connection to the mall until very late in the process. Bonnie Doon was handled in the same way and the planners did not negotiate a actual direct connection to the mall. I also recall that when them began planning the GM Campus downtown, GM contacted the COE to as where the COE may need a LRT ROW through the campus. They contacted the COE several times with NO response in two years so GM just went ahead with their plans and did not provide a ROW.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  85. #8485

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I dance pretty well. You should see my tango and foxtrot.
    Is that before or after whiskey? the tango and foxtrot that is...whiskey tango foxtrot ...

  86. #8486

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    No, actual ballroom dancing. Going on 4 years now.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    No, actual ballroom dancing. Going on 4 years now.


    https://gph.is/1hX13WS
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  88. #8488

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    Apology after Japanese train departs 20 seconds early

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-42009839
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  89. #8489

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    20 seconds early???? Deplorable
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  90. #8490
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    Plus overnight (actually 3 hours 25 minutes) they converted a station from level with the ground to running underground, then again they had 1,200 people plus a lot of the work was already completed earlier
    https://jalopnik.com/watch-this-swar...ine-1660821981

  91. #8491
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    ^ That was pretty impressive.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  92. #8492
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    City council and the mayor said that fixing LRT is a priority, maybe its time more people step up to their councillors to get them to get moving on stuff like the improvements of the NLRT current line and get to proper planning for the extension to St.Albert so that city can start its planning.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  93. #8493
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    There might be some economies of scale if you tie in the contract with Kingsway mall elevated section and the CN bridge, you can reuse a lot of the forms the columns and box girders for both.

  94. #8494
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    The city would likely be planning to go along kingsway, 118, 127, use the underpass under CN, stations at Edmonton inn, o2, lucky supermarket, Islamic college, and remand. After that it's up to sturgeon, St. Albert, and the province. Think of the savings! Lol.

  95. #8495
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    ^ Simple solution: Stick with one signaling system and go with option four
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  96. #8496
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    Sorry Drumbones, nothing so obvious... 113A Street to 153rd Avenue...
    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PDF/Northwest_LRT_NAIT_to_City_Limits_Oct_2012.pdf


  97. #8497
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    49 safety incidents in 2 years, mind you 3 were from testing the safety provisions to see if they can "break" the system, Mike Nickel wants to see if the city can walk away from the Thales contract
    https://globalnews.ca/news/3892688/e...ety-incidents/

  98. #8498
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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Sorry Drumbones, nothing so obvious... 113A Street to 153rd Avenue...
    https://www.edmonton.ca/documents/PDF/Northwest_LRT_NAIT_to_City_Limits_Oct_2012.pdf

    Yes, I'm aware, only spoofing.

  99. #8499
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    So much for verbal communication vs writing it down. Old wounds I know but so is this issue, since handover.

    Did Thales get their balance owing from coe yet?
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  100. #8500
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    Nope

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