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Thread: Metro Line - North LRT | Churchill to NAIT | Under Construction

  1. #8701
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Yeah time well tell. This project was a joke from concept to completion so I have little to no hope it will ever operate as it was supposed to.

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  2. #8702

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    A gondola system for the 3.3 km length could have been built for 1/10th the cost with a similar speed, no waiting time and no traffic disruption and little infrastructure changes.

    The COE is more interested in mega transit projects that protects the ETS transit union monopoly rather than providing better transit.

    The lack of support for the current gondola proposal is proof of that
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    At least the Province is commited to spending $1.4B on the WLRT and $130M expansion of the Metro Line to Blatchford.

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...ruction/page88

    Calgary still gets more msi dollars then we do. Just to get the bridge over the rail yards is going to cost ~ $600M.
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  4. #8704

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    Calgary gets more because they have a larger population. If you add in St. Albert, Sherwood Park and the rest and then look at it per capita, it's going to be pretty close.

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    all the more reason to annex

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    I think it would be nice to see the outlying municipalities invest more in transit, possibly in projects in alignment with the regional transit plan.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    I’m sure surrounding communities with their same evening and next day snow clearing, pot hole free smooth streets, dandelion free nicely trimmed parks and boulevards, industrial tax bases and a multitude of other pluses are dying to be part of the city of Edmonton and all their problems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I’m sure surrounding communities with their same evening and next day snow clearing, pot hole free smooth streets, dandelion free nicely trimmed parks and boulevards, industrial tax bases and a multitude of other pluses are dying to be part of the city of Edmonton and all their problems.

    Precisely correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Calgary gets more because they have a larger population. If you add in St. Albert, Sherwood Park and the rest and then look at it per capita, it's going to be pretty close.
    this is funding only for the two big charter cities. edmonton gets less than calgary because it seems to have been done on a per capita formula. st. albert, sherwood park and the rest get nothing so on a per capita basis for the region, it's even less close, not more. when you factor in the expenses that edmonton incurs on behalf of the region overall, it's probably even less fair. at the end of the day however, it probably wasn't intended to be as fair as it was intended to give both municipalities the ability to impose more taxes and fees and to take on more of what used to be provincial and federal responsibilities. at the end of the day, this is more downloading by the province than it is financial certainty for the two cities or their taxpayers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I’m sure surrounding communities with their same evening and next day snow clearing, pot hole free smooth streets, dandelion free nicely trimmed parks and boulevards, industrial tax bases and a multitude of other pluses are dying to be part of the city of Edmonton and all their problems.

    Precisely correct.
    You mean all those free loading parasites.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  11. #8711

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    This is why the the regional transit board is needed: to give a larger voice commiserate with the actual transit using population (distribution). This is particularly relevant for the Metro line as it's suposed to extend to St Albert in the future. That segment will cost a cool billion clams; using the current 40-40-20 split, I doubt they could pony up the required amount. It will be a regional effort to get that built.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    This is why the the regional transit board is needed: to give a larger voice commiserate with the actual transit using population (distribution). This is particularly relevant for the Metro line as it's suposed to extend to St Albert in the future. That segment will cost a cool billion clams; using the current 40-40-20 split, I doubt they could pony up the required amount. It will be a regional effort to get that built.
    Well said. It is going to be a hard sell to tell the people in Sherwood Park their portion of the regional funding is going to building LRT to St. Albert.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  13. #8713

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I’m sure surrounding communities with their same evening and next day snow clearing, pot hole free smooth streets, dandelion free nicely trimmed parks and boulevards, industrial tax bases and a multitude of other pluses are dying to be part of the city of Edmonton and all their problems.

    Precisely correct.
    You mean all those free loading parasites.
    You mean the hundreds of COE staff including bus drivers, police and transportation managers who live outside of Edmonton?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  14. #8714

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    Yes, this round of funding is only for the big cities but it's not as if the transit systems in the region get $0. And there's a lot more regional transit around Edmonton. Lump all the transit funding together and it's a clearer picture of transit funding.

  15. #8715

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    I’m sure surrounding communities with their same evening and next day snow clearing, pot hole free smooth streets, dandelion free nicely trimmed parks and boulevards, industrial tax bases and a multitude of other pluses are dying to be part of the city of Edmonton and all their problems.
    you spelt leeches wrong.

  16. #8716

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    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.
    It will be another year or two until they accept or reject.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  18. #8718

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.
    It will be another year or two until they accept or reject.
    And they also said they have a back-up plan for signals if this Thales fix doesn't work...but it won't make things any better. In fact, they said it may make it worse.

    Might as well just stay with what they have if that's the case.

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    I’m cynical that the city will probably find something wrong with the signalling over something trivial (“but nobody told me that you had to stop at a railway crossing”). Then they’ll get some local contractor to louse it up.
    Last edited by The_Cat; 05-12-2018 at 08:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.
    It will be another year or two until they accept or reject.
    And they also said they have a back-up plan for signals if this Thales fix doesn't work...but it won't make things any better. In fact, they said it may make it worse.

    Might as well just stay with what they have if that's the case.
    Source?
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  21. #8721

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.
    It will be another year or two until they accept or reject.
    And they also said they have a back-up plan for signals if this Thales fix doesn't work...but it won't make things any better. In fact, they said it may make it worse.

    Might as well just stay with what they have if that's the case.
    Source?
    Don’t have it handy but I thought I heard it on the news. Maybe I heard wrong...

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmontonsKindaGuy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Back on topic: https://globalnews.ca/news/4727287/e...alling-system/

    We'll see how this goes, hopefully testing won't take too long and the City can either accept Thales' solution or move on. It's dragged on long enough.
    It will be another year or two until they accept or reject.
    And they also said they have a back-up plan for signals if this Thales fix doesn't work...but it won't make things any better. In fact, they said it may make it worse.

    Might as well just stay with what they have if that's the case.
    Source?
    Don’t have it handy but I thought I heard it on the news. Maybe I heard wrong...
    Definitely, there’s no way the operators would be signing off on these stress tests if there was any suspicion that the signally was going to be worse than terrible.

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    What would happen if this new round of testing doesn't work out? What can we learn from this?
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    To hire better engineers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    What would happen if this new round of testing doesn't work out? What can we learn from this?
    This is just my assumption so take it with a grain of salt, but likely the city would consider the contract breached and investigate options that include overhauling the entire signalling system of the capital and metro lines. The city also would have a strong case in court against the contractor so expect years of taxpayer dollars going towards that battle.
    There was no need to change that plaque. We are the City of Champions.

  26. #8726

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    Metro line is closed this morning due to a malfunction.

    I am so glad I don't take the LRT to work anymore. What an unreliable piece of garbage.

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    What another one? Poor Metro.

    ETS last night was no better. Even my #8 Abbottsfield was slow. The #183 before that was 10 minutes late.

    Weather conditions? My A--
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    Relying on the same people that caused all the problems with transit to fix the problems with transit...hmm, I don’t know.

  29. #8729

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Metro line is closed this morning due to a malfunction.

    I am so glad I don't take the LRT to work anymore. What an unreliable piece of garbage.
    not just about LRT riders. it screwed over everyone trying to get to work/school etc by car. arms were down for 20+ minutes causing a massive traffic jam

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    Might be an issue with the extreme cold as well lately....maybe?
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    The only situation to this problem is the inevitable uprooting of all instrumentation and inadequate wiring and overhauling the capital and metro line with the appropriate at grade software and technology.

    Why someone would try to install a PlayStation 4 operating system on a Commodore 64 platform is beyond me.

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    I think the problem with Metro is this merging both systems together:

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    The problems go beyond the occasional system failures. When the system is working and knows exactly where the trains are and how fast they are going (which is most of the time), it is far too conservative in applying that information. Traffic lights are still being cycled and held for 90 seconds or more before the arrival of the train. Even if the system never failed, this is an unacceptable level of inefficiency that cannot support the higher frequencies that are needed. The system needs to do what a CBTC system is supposed to be capable of and nearly seamlessly integrate train movements with automobile traffic. Lights cycle, gates activate, train passes, gates go back up, lights cycle again, all within 60 seconds.

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    But a CBTC system is only designed for elevated LRT eg (Vancouver) Councilor Mike Nickle seems to be the only one on Council that got this right:

    https://953freshradio.ca/news/390128...ng-big-reveal/

    I'm no expert but perhaps things will improve when portions of Valley become elevated and the CBTC system gets incorporated into Valley. Expect more hic ups if and when Valley/City of Edmonton gets handover and a safety certificate. #What a mess.
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    Valley Line will not be incorporated into the existing Metro/Capital Lines system. Valley Line will not be using CBTC.

  36. #8736

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    ^ right out of the box...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    The problems go beyond the occasional system failures. When the system is working and knows exactly where the trains are and how fast they are going (which is most of the time), it is far too conservative in applying that information. Traffic lights are still being cycled and held for 90 seconds or more before the arrival of the train. Even if the system never failed, this is an unacceptable level of inefficiency that cannot support the higher frequencies that are needed. The system needs to do what a CBTC system is supposed to be capable of and nearly seamlessly integrate train movements with automobile traffic. Lights cycle, gates activate, train passes, gates go back up, lights cycle again, all within 60 seconds.
    This.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abruzzi Spur View Post
    Valley Line will not be incorporated into the existing Metro/Capital Lines system. Valley Line will not be using CBTC.
    Even though Valley is Urban/low floor its all part of ETS. TransEd is construction, ETS is signaling. Unless something has changed.
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  39. #8739
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    Nothing has changed the Valley line and the Metro/Capital line will operate independently. Signalling will be completely different. One lines issues or lack there of will not impact the others. Apples oranges.
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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Abruzzi Spur View Post
    Valley Line will not be incorporated into the existing Metro/Capital Lines system. Valley Line will not be using CBTC.
    Even though Valley is Urban/low floor its all part of ETS. TransEd is construction, ETS is signaling. Unless something has changed.
    That was never the case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abruzzi Spur View Post
    Valley Line will not be incorporated into the existing Metro/Capital Lines system. Valley Line will not be using CBTC.
    Isn't it line of sight?

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  43. #8743
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    Yes it is. It's line of sight with ATP.

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    Metro has been using LOS for quite awhile now. I think ATP is used more for track maintenance crew safety then anything else.
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    Always someone else's fault - never Thales: https://globalnews.ca/news/4957195/m...-issue-thales/

    Says the company that always sees sunshine and roses ....
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Metro has been using LOS for quite awhile now. I think ATP is used more for track maintenance crew safety then anything else.
    Metro has never used line of sight to my knowledge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    Always someone else's fault - never Thales: https://globalnews.ca/news/4957195/m...-issue-thales/

    Says the company that always sees sunshine and roses ....
    They accepted that it was their system. Where'd they say it was someone else's fault ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Metro has been using LOS for quite awhile now. I think ATP is used more for track maintenance crew safety then anything else.
    Negative. Automatic Train Protection is about limiting train speeds, not worker safety.

    You don't really seem to know what you are talking about. Why don't you read more on the vendor's website: https://www.bbr.net/en/turnkey-solut...lic-transport/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abruzzi Spur View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Metro has been using LOS for quite awhile now. I think ATP is used more for track maintenance crew safety then anything else.
    Negative. Automatic Train Protection is about limiting train speeds, not worker safety.

    You don't really seem to know what you are talking about. Why don't you read more on the vendor's website: https://www.bbr.net/en/turnkey-solut...lic-transport/
    envaneo doesn't know what he's talking about MOST of the time. Just put him on your Ignore List like most of us do and move on.
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    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone.

    I tell ya, ya gotta love downtown. And I wish that man well as he literally fights those non corporeal entities.

  51. #8751

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone.

    I tell ya, ya gotta love downtown. And I wish that man well as he literally fights those non corporeal entities.
    Great story. A similar incident a couple of years ago in the middle of the afternoon at Corona Station caused Mrs Oilers to finally stop taking the LRT to her work and choose to drive all the time instead.

    After all, she doesn't ever get cornered or harassed all alone by violent drunks/vagrants/mental cases when she drives to work.

    ETS has zero control over the losers who bother and harass LRT patrons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone.

    I tell ya, ya gotta love downtown. And I wish that man well as he literally fights those non corporeal entities.
    Great story. A similar incident a couple of years ago in the middle of the afternoon at Corona Station caused Mrs Oilers to finally stop taking the LRT to her work and choose to drive all the time instead.

    After all, she doesn't ever get cornered or harassed all alone by violent drunks/vagrants/mental cases when she drives to work.

    ETS has zero control over the losers who bother and harass LRT patrons.
    Oh if he had tried any funny business he woulda got a few Valentine’s Day gifts from Sir Macdonald and Mackenzie King let me tell ya.

    I’m not above fighting the homeless.

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    I really think that we need to target fare jumping. Do this and we’ll have less creeps on the trains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone.I tell ya, ya gotta love downtown. And I wish that man well as he literally fights those non corporeal entities.
    I miss those days of WWF/WWE. That's when it was a ton of fun to watch!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone.

    I tell ya, ya gotta love downtown. And I wish that man well as he literally fights those non corporeal entities.
    You know, there can only be one Top_Dawg.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    Today ol’ Steve-O was getting off the train at Churchill to go for a nice walk downtown. Headed for the stairs, he and a dozen others were the recipients of a preemptive strike when a rambling derelict came down the stairs hot, heavy, and swingin’ at nothing. Through the crowd went the man on his spiritual journey as he yelled at seemingly non existent individuals, swinging at men in Kashmir jackets holding bouquets of flowers who were jumping out of his way as he was coming in hot like Stone Cold Steve Austin when McMahon has the microphone, and in nineteen ninety eight when the undertaker threw mankind off hell in a cell, and plummeted sixteen feet through an announcer's table
    FTFY...

    oh wait ... this isn't reddit.

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    That’s literally the bottom line baby.

  58. #8758
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    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canad...cid=spartanntp

    For all those that think Edmonton is the only place that struggles with the delivery of large mass transit or infrastructure projects...

  59. #8759

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    ^
    For all the signalling problems, at least our good German Siemens trains run in the deep cold. How the new Bombardier low floor cars for the Valley Line run remains to be seen ...

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    Siemen's also have low floor trains as well.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  61. #8761

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Siemen's also have low floor trains as well.
    Excellent. We may need them, given Bombardier has had trouble providing the TTC with the street cars that are the basis for their LRT cars for us.

  62. #8762
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    Siemen's specializes in ULF cars but the principle is the same for low floor.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  63. #8763
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    ^^ Worth worrying about probably.

    But the TTC order is for a one-off to handle the tight corners on the existing streetcar system.

    Ours will be off the shelf, so hopefully won't encounter similar delays.
    ... gobsmacked

  64. #8764
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    Fortunately or unfortunately we still wont need the trains for at least another year.

  65. #8765
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    ^ That's the good news first.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  66. #8766
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    Fortunately or unfortunately we still wont need the trains for at least another year.
    I think we have the first one already. https://globalnews.ca/news/4300647/e...lrt-car-train/
    ... gobsmacked

  67. #8767

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    ^
    Indeed, but we have many more to come. Hopefully McBoo is right, and our off the shelf models will roll off the production lines faster then the TTC's custom models.

  68. #8768

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    Meanwhile, there's another line-wide shutdown this Sunday for 'maintenance'. I guess it's become routine at this point?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolworm View Post
    Meanwhile, there's another line-wide shutdown this Sunday for 'maintenance'. I guess it's become routine at this point?
    Did you read the notice, its for track grinding, which is routine maintenance for the system.

  70. #8770

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    Of course. I was trying to bring the thread back on track after the Valley line derail.

  71. #8771

  72. #8772

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    ^Wong?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  73. #8773
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    Very interesting article.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  74. #8774

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    Well, NAIT will have no service this summer. It's not actually Metro line's fault this time for once but the effects are felt most there unfortunately.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...-lrt-1.5072587

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    The Metro train will still be in operation but only up to the RAH transit centre. As for Capital line, it will be running on one track from Stadium Central. Not a big deal.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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    I would imagine it's a big deal for those who use it to get to NAIT. This is a further compounding of boneheaded decision making on the Metro line and NAIT having a "temporary" station that can only handle 3 (or 4?) cars. And by "temporary", I mean a station that will in all likelihood be in use for close to 20 years by the time it's relocated.

  77. #8777

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    I have only been to the NAIT station once. I have a question, why could they not build a 'temporary' extension to the platform out of wood to handle a 4 car consist?

    Wooden train platforms have been used for 150 years and are still in use in many cities including Chicago.



    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-03-2019 at 08:18 AM.
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  78. #8778

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    Belevedere was a wood platform while they rebuilt the station...

  79. #8779
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I have only been to the NAIT station once. I have a question, why could they not build a 'temporary' extension to the platform out of wood to handle a 4 car consist?

    Wooden train platforms have been used for 150 years and are still in use in many cities including Chicago.



    Because there is no room.
    Also, why would you build something for a short duration outage.

  80. #8780

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    The concrete slab is there, all you need is a simple 2 meter wide platform on either side of the access ramps and a simple railing. I bet a motivated deck contractor in this tight economy could build it for $30K to $50K and be done in 2 weeks.



    Way cheaper than running extra buses for 4 months.

    Somebody use some common sense. But knowing Silly Hall, consultants, year long studies, engineers and the sort; would bump the cost to $2M and take 3 years to build.

    Tell me I am wrong.

    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 27-03-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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  81. #8781

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    It sounds like you don't have a clue as to whats going on, and that your confusing the issue, and typical of your fashion, making a molehill into a mountain.

  82. #8782

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    Just asked a question.

    Guess that is not allowed.

    Thanks for letting me know the rules.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The concrete slab is there, all you need is a simple 2 meter wide platform on either side of the access ramps and a simple railing. I bet a motivated deck contractor in this tight economy could build it for $30K to $50K and be done in 2 weeks.



    Way cheaper than running extra buses for 4 months.

    Somebody use some common sense. But knowing Silly Hall, consultants, year long studies, engineers and the sort; would bump the cost to $2M and take 3 years to build.

    Tell me I am wrong.

    You are wrong.

  84. #8784

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Belevedere was a wood platform while they rebuilt the station...
    BTW it is spelled Belvedere
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  85. #8785

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    You are wrong.
    Thank you for the helpful explanation.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  86. #8786
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    You are wrong.
    Thank you for the helpful explanation.
    You asked, I answered.
    Plus I already explained, there isn't room.

  87. #8787

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    That they built a "temporary" station entirely of concrete to permanent standards is absurd from the start. IF it's temporary it should have been steel& wood on screw piles, and the tracks should have been tie and ballast.
    There can only be one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    That they built a "temporary" station entirely of concrete to permanent standards is absurd from the start. IF it's temporary it should have been steel& wood on screw piles, and the tracks should have been tie and ballast.
    It's temporary in that is going to be there for what, a decade?

  89. #8789

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    Come to think of it, they're probably taking the opportunity to get a bunch of prep work for the extension done while it's closed.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Tell me I am wrong.
    You are wrong.
    Oof.

    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    That they built a "temporary" station entirely of concrete to permanent standards is absurd from the start. IF it's temporary it should have been steel& wood on screw piles, and the tracks should have been tie and ballast.
    I'm pretty sure the concrete is there to stay. The equipment might be reused elsewhere but there's no point in demolishing everything just to rebuild 70% of it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Belevedere was a wood platform while they rebuilt the station...
    Clareview station was a about the size of a shack if I recall just before I moved into the area 2000.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  91. #8791
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    You are wrong.
    Thank you for the helpful explanation.
    You asked, I answered.
    Plus I already explained, there isn't room.
    Which is why Nait line is stopping at RAH until the new station at Blatchford is completed to accommodate 5 cars. Not sure what the timeline for completion is but work for the new bus shelter at Belvedere is just about done. I think that took about a year.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  92. #8792

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    Funding for the Blatchford extension was recently announced by both the Federal and Provincial governments.

    Government funding confirmed for 2 Edmonton LRT expansions

    “It will take about one year to complete design and select a contractor for the Metro Line Northwest LRT extension into Blatchford, and another four years to complete construction and commissioning.”

    https://globalnews.ca/news/5043208/f...-valley-metro/

  93. #8793

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    Wow...

    City ends contract with Thales, escorts workers from LRT job site

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...m-lrt-job-site

  94. #8794
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    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    Wow...

    City ends contract with Thales, escorts workers from LRT job site

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...m-lrt-job-site
    I can only imagine what actually happened.

    I have no faith that the COE really knows what they are doing and somehow Thales doesn't.

  95. #8795

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    One comment from the article

    “Despite these extraordinary efforts, Thales continued to witness a fundamental lack of leadership from the City of Edmonton on this project,” said Dave Beckley, vice president, customer service, Thales Canada, at the end of the news release.

    Thales will not be a scapegoat for the city’s lack of experience and understanding of CBTC systems. It is this type of challenging work environment that contributed to the failure of this infrastructure project, shortchanging Edmontonians and ultimately eroding trust in the LRT.”
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  96. #8796

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    Thales manages signalling systems all over the world, including London's tube. London only installed them because they wanted to go from 3 minute frequencies to 1-2 minute frequencies. This requires a lot of automation. There are still lines and stations in London that work in a simple electronic interlocking system, something that's been around since the 1860's in some fashion.

    Metro Line was most expensive line ever built in North America, at a total cost of $750m for 3.3km of track. At the height of our boom in Alberta. Labour was expensive, and we pay more for construction expertise in Alberta. However, I would argue that 'expertise' was missing on this line, as I've heard from many folks within administration. From the beginning they just haven't had the right people managing the project.

    Pulling Thales and starting over may 'save face' for the City, but they need to take their share of the blame. It also may be a result of escalating litigation between the two side, which means Thales was soon to not even offer expertise, which could criple the system.

    The City from the start has wanted a premium, automated system. I argue that isn't required for 2 lines. It really isn't. There seems an entire lack of common sense throughout this whole debacle.
    www.decl.org

  97. #8797

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE View Post
    Metro Line was most expensive line ever built in North America, at a total cost of $750m for 3.3km of track. At the height of our boom in Alberta. Labour was expensive, and we pay more for construction expertise in Alberta. However, I would argue that 'expertise' was missing on this line, as I've heard from many folks within administration. From the beginning they just haven't had the right people managing the project.
    Many of the knowledgeable people at the COE left before the project began. They retired, got a golden handshake or went to the private sector for bigger salaries.

    This is a far reaching. It is not only the signalling system but also several other factors.

    This line also interferes with the frequency and capacity of the Capital line. Also it was designed with several slow speed curves and other issues that hamper operating speed to a slow walk. Thirdly and most importantly, it is the trunk line of the St. Albert line and as such, the operational capacity/speed/frequency are all affected by the issues listed.

    This "shovel ready" line was sold to us as the best choice to grab federal dollars and the result was as you describe; "Metro Line was most expensive line ever built in North America, at a total cost of $750m for 3.3km of track." and we would have been better off to to use the money more wisely.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  98. #8798

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    ^I still think the Metro line was necessary, albeit all the circumstances you describe also lead us to where we are today.
    www.decl.org

  99. #8799

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    Thales had to go on the counteroffensive though, the fact remains that they had five years to fix the issues and couldn't.

    If you remember, there was a major service outrage in early February, while the City was doing its own independent testing. That would have been the deal breaker right there and then.

    I guess the only saving grace is that people haven't actually died, which very well could have happened! It's terrifying to think about, but at least the incompetence is visible to all instead of being hidden behind the scenes, like Boeing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by trick91 View Post
    Wow...

    City ends contract with Thales, escorts workers from LRT job site

    https://edmontonjournal.com/news/loc...m-lrt-job-site
    I can only imagine what actually happened.

    I have no faith that the COE really knows what they are doing and somehow Thales doesn't.
    I think this one line from the article is fairly telling:

    "Back in 2011, when Edmonton officials put the signalling project to tender, five companies bid and only Thales said what the city was asking for could be achieved."

    Granted, Thales submitted a tender and took the work. But when most respondents are like "ugh, what the hell are you asking for? This doesn't even make sense!", you might want to stop and re-evaluate what you're asking for.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenSPACE
    The City from the start has wanted a premium, automated system. I argue that isn't required for 2 lines. It really isn't. There seems an entire lack of common sense throughout this whole debacle.


    This. As I've mentioned before, well before the problems were becoming public and I believe at least a year or two before it was scheduled to open, I bumped in to a friend who was working for the city in the transportation department. And he was laughing about what a disaster the Metro line was going to be. Everyone knew it, apparently, except for the people higher up at the City making the actual decisions.

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