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Thread: Racism alive and well in city but situation improving

  1. #1

    Default Racism alive and well in city but situation improving

    Racism alive and well in city
    But situation improving


    By BROOKES MERRITT, SUN MEDIA
    Mon, March 26, 2007


    Burning crosses and segregated buses might be a thing of the past, but racism still quietly thrives.

    Racial discrimination in Alberta is often far more subtle than that, some high profile, non-white Edmontonians said yesterday.

    "When I was six or seven years old I couldn't go in the town wading pool because I was Chinese," Lt.-Gov. Norman Kwong, 77, told the crowd of around 300 at the Delta Edmonton South, who were celebrating the International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination.

    Kwong's memories of such discrimination - growing up in one of two Chinese families in a small town near Calgary - are vivid, but long in the past.

    "Chinese people couldn't even vote in Canada back then. That would never be allowed to happen today, but racial discrimination still exists and we still have work to do to end it."

    According to Statistics Canada's 2001 census data, 11% of Albertans are non-white, with the majority being Chinese, followed by South Asians, Filipinos and blacks. The data does not include aboriginal people.

    Winston Hawthorne, of the National Black Coalition of Canada's local chapter, said racism still thrives in discriminatory industry hiring practices, and in the media.

    "The full spectrum of a (black) person's life is rarely represented in media reports. We fight against crime headlines and images of African-descended criminals every day," he said.

    Hawthorne cited an example of how local black university commerce graduates head straight for Eastern Canada or the States.

    "Look in a bank around here. You won't see many people of African origin because they just don't get the same opportunities here that they do elsewhere. Are we happy? No. But things are certainly better than they used to be and slowly improving."

    Edmonton MP Rahim Jaffer - a Muslim whose family lived in India before moving to East Africa and later Vancouver and Edmonton - remembers the discrimination he faced as a younger schoolboy.

    "It was nothing specific, but I always knew I was the only dark face in the crowd when I went to school. Kids would say things sometimes, but I always knew it was because their parents hadn't taught them any better."

    Rather than the more overt racism his parents' generation faced, Jaffer said "what we more often experience (in Canada) is a bit of racial and cultural ignorance. It can be just as harmful but is less malicious in nature."

    But even in the last 15 years, Jaffer said he's seen tremendous leaps in how kids deal with others from different cultures.

    "Walk into a school class in Edmonton today and it's like everyone is colour blind. They have so much access to the world and other cultures that things like skin colour and religious beliefs seems far less foreign to them."

    Al-Karim Ramji, 23, is a director of the Canadian Mutlicultural Education Foundation - the group hosting yesterday's anti-racism event.

    An Ismaili Muslim, Ramji grew up in Sherwood Park and attended high school in Edmonton. In the 12 years that separate him from Jaffer, he said cultural discrimination in school has become even more unpopular, especially the kind of anti-Muslim backlash that cropped-up after 9-11.

    --30--

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    Default My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    was actually called a "Paki" and told to "go back to Punjab" when he was in Edmonton. I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy that yelled those things because he was then told in a loud un-accented voice where to put his ideas, how deep, and when. I expect the look on the old guy's face was priceless. The new generation is not shy about fighting back and I suspect the the old gentleman will not say those things again.

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    Default Re: My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    Quote Originally Posted by bobinedmonton
    was actually called a "Paki" and told to "go back to Punjab" when he was in Edmonton. I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy that yelled those things because he was then told in a loud un-accented voice where to put his ideas, how deep, and when. I expect the look on the old guy's face was priceless. The new generation is not shy about fighting back and I suspect the the old gentleman will not say those things again.
    Is "pakii" a considered racist?

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    yes.

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    Default Re: My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker
    Quote Originally Posted by bobinedmonton
    was actually called a "Paki" and told to "go back to Punjab" when he was in Edmonton. I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy that yelled those things because he was then told in a loud un-accented voice where to put his ideas, how deep, and when. I expect the look on the old guy's face was priceless. The new generation is not shy about fighting back and I suspect the the old gentleman will not say those things again.
    Is "pakii" a considered racist?
    very

  6. #6

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    Rule to go by: If you have to ask if it something is racist, sexist, ageist or discriminatory in anyway it most likely is so best to use a different term etc.

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    Moving back to Edmonton last year I realised that there is quite a discrimination against the aboriginal community; I find the attittude around Edmonton really bad towards that community.

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    Where did you move from? Because aboriginal discrimination is everywhere in Canada.

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    I was in the US. Does it matter that it everywhere in Canada? It is sad period, right?

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    As long as you realize that aboriginal discrimination is a nation-wide problem that is federally indoctrinated (but that's a whole other War-and-Peace length debate). Your choice of wording made it look like a specific Edmonton issue.

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    The USA has their own problems with racial discrimination. Just ask Warren Moon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brentk
    I was in the US. Does it matter that it everywhere in Canada? It is sad period, right?
    It does not matter that it (discrimination) is everywhere in Canada or the US or anywhere in the world—discrimination—in any form is wrong and must be changed and stopped…sad indeed, illegal and abhorrent as well.

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    Default Re: My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker
    Quote Originally Posted by bobinedmonton
    was actually called a "Paki" and told to "go back to Punjab" when he was in Edmonton. I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy that yelled those things because he was then told in a loud un-accented voice where to put his ideas, how deep, and when. I expect the look on the old guy's face was priceless. The new generation is not shy about fighting back and I suspect the the old gentleman will not say those things again.
    Is "pakii" considered racist?
    very
    Maybe I'm being a little too simplistic with this, but isn't it just shortning Pakistanian? The same as Danish=Dane, Australian=Aussie, Finnish=Finn, Swedish=Swede, etc.

  14. #14

    Default Re: My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker

    Maybe I'm being a little too simplistic with this, but isn't it just shortning Pakistanian? The same as Danish=Dane, Australian=Aussie, Finnish=Finn, Swedish=Swede, etc.
    Perhaps you are approaching this a little too simplistically.

    The cultural sensitivity of this particular term is deeply rooted in racism and the Indo-Pakistani unrest. Also much like calling all people of Asian descent or appearance Chinese (or worse) or Japanese (or worse) unless you are familiar with the distinctions that separate the races mistakes are bound to happen which is offensive to both Indians and Pakistanis (or the Chinese and Japanese).

    Aussies like being called this but call one a Kiwi and see the feathers fly! Same as calling a Canuck a Yank it is close but not accurate.

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    Default Re: My turbaned friend from Vancouver

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker
    Quote Originally Posted by travis
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker
    Quote Originally Posted by bobinedmonton
    was actually called a "Paki" and told to "go back to Punjab" when he was in Edmonton. I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy that yelled those things because he was then told in a loud un-accented voice where to put his ideas, how deep, and when. I expect the look on the old guy's face was priceless. The new generation is not shy about fighting back and I suspect the the old gentleman will not say those things again.
    Is "pakii" considered racist?
    very
    Maybe I'm being a little too simplistic with this, but isn't it just shortning Pakistanian? The same as Danish=Dane, Australian=Aussie, Finnish=Finn, Swedish=Swede, etc.
    I believe Pakistani, not Pakistanian, is correct.

    But to answer your quesion. Paki is considered racist because it was invented for that very purpose, much like the word Chink. Swede, Dane, and Finn are actually the official words used to describe people from these countries. Aussie is used by Australians themselves and has no racist connotation.

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    They're all just Wogs!


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    Interesting video (below). Coincidentally right now there are efforts being made to save a church in Ontario that dates back to the early black immigrants that arrived a couple hundred years ago.

    One perception I have is that some racist people see some visible minorities as recent immigrants (see comments above) and not of a people long predating their own family's arrival to Canada. Students and immigrants aren't taught that canada has long welcomed, and even encouraged immigrants Of different 'races' and cultures to come here. Those who arrived in the 20th century and their children need to be reminded that a many of the people they are critical of, helped welcome they or their parents to Canada.

    Though knowing otherwise may not make much if any difference ( just look at how our aboriginal people are treated). However some of that relates to a dislike of anyone getting special status.

    THE NATIONAL | Feb 18, 2015 | 4:13
    Teaching black history in Canada
    New black history course dismantling myths and challenging stereotypes.

    http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV%20S...ID/2654658445/



    Mayor pushing for Oro African Church restoration
    Excerpt:
    "Methodist Episcopal Church has been closed to visitors since 2012 due to its dilapidated condition. Added to the national historic register in 2002, the church’s significance stretches beyond the national borders, according to Mayor Harry Hughes.

    "It’s as much a world heritage site as a national one," he said."
    http://www.orilliapacket.com/2015/01...ch-restoration

    "Oro-Medonte has a long standing tradition of celebrating cultural diversity. The African Church, a national historic site, is a testimony to the first time in the history of the British Empire where black veterans of the war of 1812 were granted their own land."
    http://www.oro-medonte.ca/council-co...mayors-message
    Last edited by KC; 28-02-2015 at 08:12 AM.

  18. #18

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    looks interesting....

    'Are We All Bigots?' Exclusive Clip
    4/27/2015 3:08PM
    Watch a scene from "Are We All Bigots?" an upcoming episode of Morgan Freeman's Science Channel show "Through the Wormhole." The show airs April 29th. Video/Photo: Courtesy of the Science Channel.

    http://www.wsj.com/video/are-we-all-...ng_now_video_1

  19. #19

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    If racism is alive in Canada then it's thriving everywhere else. I'd argue Canada's overall levels of discrimination, racial or otherwise, should be the envy of most countries on Earth.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If racism is alive in Canada then it's thriving everywhere else. I'd argue Canada's overall levels of discrimination, racial or otherwise, should be the envy of most countries on Earth.
    I've heard that only white Canadians hold the above view.

    Apparently Cuba is very advanced and civilized in term of equality.

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    I've heard that only white Canadians hold the above view.
    That's what they want you to believe. After all, we whites are the great oppressors.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    I've heard that only white Canadians hold the above view.
    That's what they want you to believe. After all, we whites are the great oppressors.
    As I've argued, much of Canada's pioneering population was of mixed 'race'. Also, clearly there was racism against early Asian immigrants but the fact that the native population became quite intermixed and the fact that black Americans were invited to come to Canada and that black Americans and mixed 'race' people were allowed to hold official positions in places like Vancouver Island somewhat nixes the idea that racism was pervasive. (eg Sir James Douglas)

    Though immigrants of all backgrounds tended to form communities of 'like' people. Was that due to strength in numbers needed for survival here, or due to imported racist beliefs where they wanted to maintain the language, religious, or cultural or coloured 'purity' of their homeland, or due to the logistics of marketing the gifting of blocks of land to various immigrant groups? Still, I think a some of the blame for racism falls on the shoulders of more recent immigrants having no desire to intermarry coming into Canada in large enough numbers to allow their racist beliefs to get entrenched.


    Sir James Douglas: Colonial Governor - Under a Northern Star - Library and Archives Canada

    "San Francisco's Black community was actively discussing the idea of emigrating to some more welcoming country, and Douglas moved quickly to promote his own colony as a destination. In April 1858, he sent Captain Nagle of the steamer Commodore to San Francisco, inviting the Blacks to settle in Victoria.
    The community responded at once, delegating 35 Blacks as a "pioneer committee" to inspect the colony. They sailed on the Commodore back to Victoria, arriving on April 25. Three delegates met Douglas that same day and found him "very cheerful and agreeable."

    Douglas glossed over the embarrassing problem of expensive land (prices were set in London). He emphasized that all landowners would have the right to vote and to sit on juries. After seven years, he promised, they could become British subjects with all rights and privileges. Until then, they would enjoy the full protection of the law."

    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/n...05-2301-e.html

    Canada’s race problem? It’s even worse than America’s.

    For a country so self-satisfied with its image of progressive tolerance, how is this not a national crisis? Scott Gilmore January 22, 2015



    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/o...out-of-mind-2/
    Last edited by KC; 02-05-2015 at 07:42 AM.

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    If racism is alive in Canada then it's thriving everywhere else. I'd argue Canada's overall levels of discrimination, racial or otherwise, should be the envy of most countries on Earth.
    I've heard that only white Canadians hold the above view.

    Apparently Cuba is very advanced and civilized in term of equality.
    I didn't say we were racism or discrimination free, or that we should stop trying to improve. In my opinion we're less racist and discriminatory than most places. People of any colour, religion, sex, gender, age, etc. can walk down virtually any street in our country with a reasonable expectation of safety. I'd argue that's extraordinarily rare on this planet.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    In my opinion we're less racist and discriminatory than most places. People of any colour, religion, sex, gender, age, etc. can walk down virtually any street in our country with a reasonable expectation of safety. I'd argue that's extraordinarily rare on this planet.
    The planet is safer than you think.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 03-05-2015 at 12:27 AM.

  25. #25

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    This issue made it into the Toronto Sun. Edmonton's so great, some of its people though...

    Man making video about how great Edmonton is has racial slurs flung at him on camera
    http://www.torontosun.com/2016/09/02...-him-on-camera
    Last edited by KC; 19-09-2016 at 10:31 PM.

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    It takes a long time for news to trickle into Toronto.

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    Having travelled extensively I am of the opinion that there is less racism here than anywhere. It will always happen now and then but I would consider this an isolated incident.

  28. #28

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    Less Racism? I dunno about that. Perhaps less than Calgary. But Alberta has always been Canadas Texas. This is from the U of A campus just a few days ago. This isnt some isolated rednecks.
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

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    ^that poster is disgusting! Whoever put that up is disgusting!

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    The rudeness of that poster makes me wonder if it might be a false flag operation - people can't really be that stupid, can they?

    Then I think; yes, yes they can.
    There can only be one.

  31. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The rudeness of that poster makes me wonder if it might be a false flag operation - people can't really be that stupid, can they?

    Then I think; yes, yes they can.

    Yes it is way over the top. There are numerous examples of these types of staged events over the past few years. Demand for these incidents is greater than supply as the victim industry expands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The rudeness of that poster makes me wonder if it might be a false flag operation - people can't really be that stupid, can they?

    Then I think; yes, yes they can.
    Well, the group mentioned in the link has denied any involvement with the postering.

    http://tinyurl.com/zh8pkjw

    And, while I don't always take such denials seriously, the rhetoric on the poster doesn't really match up with that used on the website, and it seems a little odd that something so incendiary would ally itself with a site that, whatever its actual ideology, seems to strive for a tone of reasoned discussion.

    So yeah, I might be inclined to place this in the same category as a poster reading KILL ANYONE EARNING OVER FIFTY GRAND A YEAR!!, with a link to the NDP's website.

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    That said, reading about this "group"(not clear if it amounts to more than just one guy in Vancouver), their previous visual offerings don't sound entirely far removed from the U Of A poster.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Watch_Canada

    The Edmonton poster still seems a little far-out, even by the group's previous standards. I see they're both obsessed with Sikhs and turbans. Must be some hardcore 80s nostalgists.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Less Racism? I dunno about that. Perhaps less than Calgary. But Alberta has always been Canadas Texas. This is from the U of A campus just a few days ago. This isnt some isolated rednecks.
    I think generally Canada is good. There is less racism than in most countries, if not the least in the world, with the exception of how indigenous people have been treated. As to which place is least racist in Canada, that's a tricky one. Toronto is the most multicultural city, but I wouldn't say its the least racist, they have a lot of issues in Toronto with stratification of races into particular neighborhoods, which is less the case in Alberta. This article on "Brown" Brampton is a good read:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle30273820/

    As a writer who has documented and experienced true urban decay south of the border, I know for a fact that “ghetto” is a racially charged word that conjures up images of heavily populated slums, often segregated neighbourhoods occupied by minorities. It’s a disparaging term – one that historically was used to describe enclaves occupied by Jewish Europeans and now used more to describe – especially in America – urban black poverty.

    Regardless of whether Brampton is, or isn’t, a ghetto, that label alone is not a good one. It raises tough questions about the future of a city that’s been profoundly reshaped by the immigrants who’ve made their homes there.

  35. #35

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    I was watching a comedy show from Montreal last week. There was a colored comedian from the States. She was saying how she liked Montreal etc. the usual patter to win the audience over.
    She said she had heard that Alberta was the Alabama of Canada and she would like to visit. It was funny as it was a joke but when it's put forward like that poster was it's not very nice at all.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  36. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    The rudeness of that poster makes me wonder if it might be a false flag operation - people can't really be that stupid, can they?

    Then I think; yes, yes they can.
    Usually a false flag is thrown up as a distraction. Not sure what it would be a distraction from.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  37. #37

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    ^False flag operations intend to capitalize on the negative PR that it gives their opponent. So if it were false flag it could be a pro-immigration group or a multiculturalism proponent or even a pro-turban activist.
    There can only be one.

  38. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Less Racism? I dunno about that. Perhaps less than Calgary. But Alberta has always been Canadas Texas. This is from the U of A campus just a few days ago. This isnt some isolated rednecks.
    Alberta's been a very diverse population from the start. Just look at the immigration here over the last 100+ years. We had black communities set up here, various religious communities, Ukrainian and German waves of immigration, etc. And Edmonton had Canada's first mosque.

    Canadianization

    Assimilation into Canadian culture was the norm for nearly all European immigrants, according to Prokop (1989). An important indicator of assimilation was the use of English; the children of all immigrant groups showed a strong preference in favour of speaking English, regardless of their parents' language. From 1900 to 1930, the government faced the formidable task of transforming the ethnically and linguistically diverse immigrant population into loyal and true Canadians. Many officials believed language assimilation by children would be the key to Canadianization. However, there was opposition to the direct method of English teaching from some immigrant spokesmen. English-language usage in playground games often proved an effective device, and was systematically used. The elementary schools especially in rural Alberta played a central role in the acculturation of the immigrants and their children, providing, according to Prokop, a community character that created a distinctive feature of Canadian schools glaringly missing in the European school tradition.[31]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Alberta
    Last edited by KC; 20-09-2016 at 06:30 PM.

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    In terms of reported hate crimes the notion that Alberta or Edmonton in particular is "redneck" country doesn't hold water.

    According to this article from Global News, the number of hate crimes per 100k in 2014 for Alberta is actually below the national average and lower than either Ontario or BC. Edmonton's rate per 100k was 3.3, Calgary was 6.0, Toronto was 5.6, Vancouver was 7.2 and Montreal was 4.9.

    Of course this is not necessarily a measure of prevailing attitudes and not a perfect measure for such attitudes but obviously there is no monopoly on ill will.
    Last edited by norwoodguy; 20-09-2016 at 11:18 PM.
    Did my dog just fall into a pothole???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Highlander II View Post
    ^False flag operations intend to capitalize on the negative PR that it gives their opponent. So if it were false flag it could be a pro-immigration group or a multiculturalism proponent or even a pro-turban activist.
    Yes, or anyone else with an interest in making the anti-immigration group look bad. Disgruntled ex-member, etc.

    The guy who runs the group says he has an idea who it was, so I guess we'll see if any more details are brought forward.

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