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Thread: New express bus route between transit centres?

  1. #1
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    Default New express bus route between transit centres?

    What are people's thoughts on an peak hour super express bus (similar to the 100 that runs between downtown and WEM) that runs between the transit stations around town?

    My thoughts are something along the lines of this;

    Abbotsfield - Belvedere - Clareview - Northgate - Eaux Claire - Castledowns - Kingsway - Westmount - Jasper Place - Lewis Farms - WEM - Meadowlark - South Campus - Southgate - Leger - Century Park - Millgate - Lakewood - Millwoods - Meadows - Capilano - Abbotsfield.

    Stops would only be at major points of interest between two transit centres (like say Londonderry Mall between Clareview and Northgate).

    Of course if we wanted the route to be really fast, you could eliminate some of the LRT stations (say Southgate and Clareview or something like that). All it would take would be a dozen buses or so running during rush hour and you'd have fast, reliable transit between major ETS stations, allowing even better coverage of the city.

    What do you think?

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    Im for it.
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    I like the idea of buses going from terminal to terminal. Like the LRT, we could have grid routes (e.g. Abbottsfield-Coliseum-(97 Street/118 Avenue)-NAIT LRT-Westmount
    Mill Woods-Lakewood-Century Park-Leger) where commuters could transfer onto the LRT or at major intersections like Whyte Avenue/83 Street.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  4. #4

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    I would imagine a route, call it the 109, that would basically follow the 9 except it would on;ly stop at transit centres and a couple of places downtown, Whyte ave, etc.

    Another could be Abbotsfield, Coliseum, NAIT, Westmount, JP, WEM

    Wem - Leger - CP - Mill Woods

    There actually should be express bus routes following the planned LRT routes to get people used to the routing. Of course some changes would have to be made (Argyll rd, etc)

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    Here's an old spider map (2010), courtesy of Lightrail:

    [/QUOTE]

    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=16516
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    And an updated one:

    [/QUOTE]
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    We need more of these until the LRT is fully expaded

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    I would imagine a route, call it the 109, that would basically follow the 9 except it would only stop at transit centres and a couple of places downtown, Whyte ave, etc.

    Edmonton transit calls it route 15 :http://webdocs.edmonton.ca/transit/r...ture/RT015.pdf

    except it follows route 9 in the north and route 8 in the south.

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    Then it's not really the same thing, is it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Then it's not really the same thing, is it?

    South of downtown it's called the LRT.

    Are you proposing a new bus route to avoid a transfer to the LRT?

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    There seems to be too much overlaping and adding of express routes to places that people have very little reason to go from their original location to that location. Also it's a bit hard to picture as some routes it doesn't show all the stop, ex. 82, I'm guessing it has a couple stops at least otherwise it's an express that goes to between two places that most likely very few people have to go between. And just to knit pick even further on that section, why Mill Woods to Capilano, why not meadows to Capilano.

    The over all idea is a decent one but the is needs to be way more detail for
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by kjh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Then it's not really the same thing, is it?

    South of downtown it's called the LRT.

    Are you proposing a new bus route to avoid a transfer to the LRT?
    The 109 would run down 109th street, not follow the tracks. With stops at Whyte, 76th and Southgate. One stop downtown, 107th ave, 111, 118, 129 or 132, Nothgate, Eau Clares and perhaps Castledowns. The only place it would follow the LRT id from Southgate to 63rd ave and that's only because 109th street switches over to 111th for a few blocks.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    There seems to be too much overlaping and adding of express routes to places that people have very little reason to go from their original location to that location. Also it's a bit hard to picture as some routes it doesn't show all the stop, ex. 82, I'm guessing it has a couple stops at least otherwise it's an express that goes to between two places that most likely very few people have to go between. And just to knit pick even further on that section, why Mill Woods to Capilano, why not meadows to Capilano.

    The over all idea is a decent one but the is needs to be way more detail for
    You could run Capilano-Meadows-Mill Woods-Century Park-Leger

    http://goo.gl/maps/1w70

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kjh View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    Then it's not really the same thing, is it?

    South of downtown it's called the LRT.

    Are you proposing a new bus route to avoid a transfer to the LRT?
    The 109 would run down 109th street, not follow the tracks. With stops at Whyte, 76th and Southgate. One stop downtown, 107th ave, 111, 118, 129 or 132, Nothgate, Eau Clares and perhaps Castledowns. The only place it would follow the LRT id from Southgate to 63rd ave and that's only because 109th street switches over to 111th for a few blocks.


    A new bus route to add express stops to the west end of whyte and 76th ave along 109th street. A street that already has a bus only lane and is therefore pretty fast.

    Not with tax dollars please.

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    I think it would also be great to see transfer/timing points at 109/Whyte and 50 Street/Whitemud.

    With AHD NW open, a route from St. Albert to Eaux Claires might make sense, particularly with the traffic to Edmonton Garrison.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Does anybody know if the St. Albert park and ride is under construction? This could be another hub for the transit network, connecting with NAIT, downtown, Westmount, WEM and Eaux Claires.

    I'd also like to see additional Sherwood Park-Edmonton routes:

    (1) Sherwood Park-Meadowbrook-50 Street-75 Street-Southgate-WEM

    (2) Sherwood Park-Century Park-Airport
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    There seems to be too much overlaping and adding of express routes to places that people have very little reason to go from their original location to that location. Also it's a bit hard to picture as some routes it doesn't show all the stop, ex. 82, I'm guessing it has a couple stops at least otherwise it's an express that goes to between two places that most likely very few people have to go between. And just to knit pick even further on that section, why Mill Woods to Capilano, why not meadows to Capilano.

    The over all idea is a decent one but the is needs to be way more detail for
    If you are talking about my original post, I did suggest Meadows to Capilano. If not, my apologies in advance.

    I envision the overall route as allowing a temporary solution UNTIL the LRT network is built out more to allow faster and more efficient transportation from one part of the city to another. It strikes me as highly inefficient to have to go to downtown to get to WEM from the north end - there are some similar problems on the southside (where you have to travel north to get to somewhere else on the southside).

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    And an updated one:

    [/QUOTE]

    This was fun to draw, but it is out of date now. New connections with the 137 and to Leduc and the Airport are missing. If I can find the original file, I'll update it.
    ETS Trolley Buses - 1939 to 2010 - R.I.P.

  19. #19
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    Is there a new transit centre at Lewis Estates?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Is there a new transit centre at Lewis Estates?
    Yep. This was the announcement of the opening:

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...lly-opens.aspx

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    And an updated one:

    This was fun to draw, but it is out of date now. New connections with the 137 and to Leduc and the Airport are missing. If I can find the original file, I'll update it.[/QUOTE]

    Here are some travel times I calculated:

    Leger to:

    Century Park - 13 Min
    South Campus - 27 Min
    Southgate - 24 Min

    Century Park to:

    Southgate - 7 Min
    Lakewood - 20 Min
    Mill Woods TC - 24 Min

    Lakewood to:

    Millgate - 9 min
    Downtown - 40 min
    Mill Woods TC - 5 min

    Millwoods to:

    Meadows - 18 min
    Bonnie Doon - 26 min
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  22. #22
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    Southgate to:

    South Campus - 4 min
    West Edmonton Mall - 28 min
    Millgate - 12 min
    Bonnie Doon - 28 min
    Downtown - 23 min (#9), 18 min (LRT)

    Millgate to:

    Downtown - 23 min
    Bonnie Doon - 13 min
    Capilano - 34 min
    Meadows - 13 min

    South Campus to:

    WEM - 21 min
    University - 7 min

    University to:

    Central Station - 10 min
    Bonnie Doon - 22 min
    Westmount - 11 min

    Bonnie Doon to:

    Downtown - 10 min
    Sherwood Park - 10 min
    Capilano - 16 min

    Capilano to:

    Downtown - 10 min
    Coliseum - 8 min
    Baseline - 12 min
    Last edited by The_Cat; 26-02-2014 at 11:29 PM.
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  23. #23
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    West Edmonton Mall to:

    Lewis Farms - 8 min
    Meadowlark - 7 min
    Jasper Place - 15 min
    Downtown (100) - 27 min
    St. Albert - 24 min

    Meadowlark to:

    Jasper Place - 7 min
    Downtown - 18 (100)
    South Campus - 19 min

    Jasper Place to:

    Downtown (1) - 28 min
    Westmount - 13 min
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  24. #24
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    Downtown to:

    Westmount - 26 min
    Kingsway - 13 min
    Northgate - 27 min
    Stadium - 6 min
    St. Albert - 39 min
    Clareview - 13 min

    Westmount to:

    Kingsway - 13 min
    Castle Downs - 27 min
    Northgate - 30 min
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  25. #25
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    Kingsway to:

    Northgate - 18 min
    Coliseum - 12 min
    Stadium - 6 min

    Stadium to:

    Coliseum - 2 min

    Coliseum to:

    Belvedere - 3 min
    Abbottsfield - 15 min
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  26. #26

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    As cost effective as brt can be we have bigger fish to fry.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    EDP, I agree that BRT shouldn't be top priority, but I think with the expanding LRT network, there are opportunities for more crosstown routes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  28. #28
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    BRT that takes a lot of capital investment is not what we need. What we do need are:
    better frequent routes linking major nodes and for fast crosstown trips that will never see LRT, and

    Frequent express buses, with some signal priority on planned LRT routes, to show the route's viability and to build ridership. The #8 is a reasonable approximation of the SE line, but there should be a fast bus on the route of west line hitting only the LRT stops and departing at LRT like frequency (5 minutes).

  29. #29
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    I think it would be great to see big data available for ridership numbers on Edmonton bus routes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I think it would be great to see big data available for ridership numbers on Edmonton bus routes.
    This document has some interesting analysis. Not a complete data set though.
    http://www.docdroid.net/9lu1/2939920...34655.pdf.html

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    Some good concepts. The LRT to NAIT will save about 10 minutes on a trip to Kingsway or NAIT. I'm not advocating for full-scale Bus Rapid Transit; however I think that some connections can be strengthened. For example, I'd like to see priority bus signals on Whyte Avenue, or the 133 bus from South Campus to WEM every 15 minutes.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  32. #32
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    Whyte ave, the WLRT route, 97st North, 118 avenue should have LRT-like frequency and be freed from the current timed-transfer regime.

    Whyte ave is on place where physical improvements are justified: in addition to signal priority the sidewalk at bus stops should be extended through the parking lane and the buses shouldn't have to pull over. This would: improve pedestrian space, speed bus travel slightly and make the ride more smooth an comfortable.
    Maybe when digital fare media is adopted we can have all-door boarding on routes like this too, and speed service some more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    And an updated one:

    This was fun to draw, but it is out of date now. New connections with the 137 and to Leduc and the Airport are missing. If I can find the original file, I'll update it.
    [/QUOTE]

    Lightrail worked hard on this map a few years ago. I think Edmonton and Area could come up with a wicked transit system map if there was an intercity transit map.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  34. #34
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    I wonder how soon the St. Albert Trail/AHD transit centre/park and ride will be built. I think there could be express routes to NAIT and Downtown (StAT), and connections to Lewis Farms and Eaux Claires.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Bus Network Redesign - Updated Links: https://t.co/HfiChd2opA
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  36. #36

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    Still needs a lot of work. There are numerous points where what should be a crosstown route is split into several local routes, or like 106ave in capilano between a frequent route and a crosstown route that don't connect.
    There can only be one.

  37. #37

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    Far fewer "Crosstown" routes than I would have hoped, and some of those that exist are shorter than they should be. MWTC shouldn't be the end of continuous service on 23ave, stadium shouldn't be the end of 112/111.
    There can only be one.

  38. #38
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    Edmonton Transit Network Interactive Map: https://platform.remix.com/map/2849a...-113.44002,z12
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  39. #39

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    Pretty cool

  40. #40

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    In millwoods alone these are massively improved routes with a proper understanding of what a feeder route is and that it not be one that tries to tackle several different neighborhoods all on one route. The simple loop routes feeding back to connections with the LRT Valley Line are the best.

    Another plus is routes not being forcefed through stupid Lakewood and Milgate time delays.

    Of course its easier for the Millwoods system to look better with the Valley Line coming in but these are positive improvements. When could these take effect?
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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    Looking at the map, if you move Jane to various parts of the city, you get a good idea how well communities are served.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  43. #43

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    ^Jane needs to be getting DT faster than an hour when I can cycle the distance in 55mins from my door..

    Didn't even note that feature before you mentioned it. Thanks.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    This is a known. When are the other changes taking effect? These are some much improved bus routes. This is what they should've been. For decades I've been saying the SouthEast system is all wrong. The Neighborhoods in Millwoods particularly were designed for the kind of routes they are thinking about now decades later. Until now we've had routes that mock what the neighborhood lay out is.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  45. #45

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    They're currently in the feedback phase and the plan will be put into place all at once. That's the current plan. Could it change and they make incremental changes? Sure, but that's not how it's intended at this point.

    One change that should be made is to the C1 Crosstown to Castle Downs. University to 127 st/137 ave is fine but then it makes this odd loop before arriving at the Transit Centre. Crosstown routes should be as direct as possible, connecting TC to other TCs and major nodes.

    https://platform.remix.com/map/2849a...01,z11.5&dir=0
    Last edited by kkozoriz; 30-03-2018 at 08:51 PM.

  46. #46

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    It seems there will now only be one route going down whyte (82nd), but at frequencies of 15 min or better (both directions). Do we think this will improve the issue of bus hop scotching in the corridor? Overall the new routing especially the local routes seem less complicated and there are less redundant routes that share similar paths to other routes.

  47. #47

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    There's at least two routes that run along Whyte, at least the Strathcona parts of it. The F4 runs between University and 99 st. The F7 between University and 75th street. Both are 15 minute frequency during the day and 20/30 minutes late night.

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    I hope that the city is also serious about bus lanes on Whyte Avenue, and other key streets.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  49. #49

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    A crosstown route should be added running along Ellerslie road. Run it between the Currents of Windermere in the west and Watt Common (50 st) in the east, with the Heritage Valley Park and Ride in the middle. This would give improved access to employment nodes in the far south, and allow faster travel to the Rapid Bus Route between Heritage Valley and Century Park for those willing to walk to the Crosstown stops.

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    I think it would be great if some shopping centres could have a section of parking for ride sharing services, especially malls that are suffering. These car sharing lots would be great for people needing to get home from LRT.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ustauk View Post
    A crosstown route should be added running along Ellerslie road. Run it between the Currents of Windermere in the west and Watt Common (50 st) in the east, with the Heritage Valley Park and Ride in the middle. This would give improved access to employment nodes in the far south, and allow faster travel to the Rapid Bus Route between Heritage Valley and Century Park for those willing to walk to the Crosstown stops.
    Even if it's not an express this would be great. In honesty it would be a pseudo-express anyway for the forseeable future since there's kind of nothing for a pretty good stretch of it.

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