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Thread: Behaviour of Cops in Edmonton

  1. #501
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    To Top_Dawg it doesn't sound like she got any preferential treatment.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ring-1.4176772

    Sucks to be her.

  2. #502

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    You and I would not get off so easy. Her employer is docking her two weeks of pay. Most companies that require you to drive would fire you.

    As a police office, she should be setting an example to the community, not adding to the problem of drinking and driving.


    What about losing her licence for two years? That would sound appropriate.

    Those 2 beers must have been 20 oz glasses, equal to 4 servings. Sounds like she bent/broke the truth.

    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 26-06-2017 at 09:20 AM.
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    A criminal conviction should result in automatic dismissal for a law enforcement officer. And all wages paid while on leave pending trial should be clawed back. Giving her a desk job is a joke. For anyone in the civilian work force whose employment required their ability to drive, they would immediately lose their job with no questions asked. But when it's a law enforcement officer that should be held to a HIGHER standard, they just get a desk job instead.

  4. #504

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    By and large I respect the police, but police culture is DISGUSTING.

  5. #505

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    ^ & ^^ Agree with all points

    I hear it first hand from my friends who are veteran police officers. They too are disgusted by new hotshot rookie officers who have been watching too many movies and video games and disgusted by the boot lickers who rise through the ranks and into senior levels. Maintaining the 'thin blue line' to "I'm one of you. Look the other way." is more important than following the rule of law.
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    Top_Dawg thanks you for the laugh.

    The veteran police officers of whom you speak were many times worse than what newer members can ever get away with today.

  7. #507

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    I never said they were better. There are major issues from top to bottom, rookies and veterans alike. Lots of stress related addiction issues as well. Booze, drugs, gambling, etc.
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  8. #508

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    Its not just hotshot young officers. The dynamic difficulty, in virtually any police force is essentially the dragnet in whom they would attract to such a position. Invariably control freaks, or those that in the least want to have authority over others as a role are innately overrepresented in such a force. They're almost all hotdogs as it were.

    Invariably you need a police chief to try to steer a ship with all those in tow.

    I've worked for decades alongside the EPS and theres been a ton of characters that easily qualify as DB's.

    I could say a lot more.

    Agreed with Dawg as well. The long jaded veteran cops are often the worst. This isn't a pursuit where experience and maturity tend to help. The cops with more time are just doing time. Its hard to even get them to do their job. Could be a domestic abuse situation and they just don't want to write it up. Often belligerent about the situation as well.

    It is a stressful occupation, I get that, but a lot of the behavior we see is due to the types of individuals that are attracted to police work in the first place.
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    They seem to seek that type of personality out for hiring..

  10. #510

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    Yep. But its a dynamic in the applicants as well.


    Just want to expand on the female EPS constable caught drunk driving.

    "Do me a solid"


    This is interesting vernacular in itself from somebody in a professional capacity. In short do me a favor, but in the context of committing a crime. So that there is an elemental misunderstanding in context of what it means to be solid. Being solid, minimally, would be upholding the law, not figuratively upholding colleagues breaking the law.

    As a taxpayer, and citizen I would like EPS to "Do me a solid" and get rid of this constable and any like her that figure they are beyond approach of the law and do not have to be law abiding.

    Her actions while drunk driving are also obscene speeding by as much as 50km over limit in a 20 zone where tickets to anybody else would be twice the cost and who would be charged with impaired driving.
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    Hey, at least her colleague didn't do her a solid, and she was reported. That'd be an even worse story.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

  12. #512

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    And WTF is "a solid"? I know I know, it means "favour", but where did that lingo come from?
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  13. #513

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    Yeah, if doing a solid is urban dictionary type of talky why not just say 'do me a favor'. It's not like people can't look up what 'do me a solid' means. It's not code language.
    I know I read somewhere that the police are loath to loose officers as it cost a lot to train them and get them seasoned on the job etc. What I fail to understand is that when they let one of their own off very lightly (as opposed to what the public gets) they can't fathom why the public loose respect for them. The public having confidence in their police service is a priceless commodity. Much more valuable than the training etc that a recruit receives. Another one is that if police officers drink and get into trouble they try to use the stress of the job as a reason. A lot of people have stress in their lives, be it family or job related. It should not be used as an excuse for breaking the law. A cop should know that more than anybody.
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    During the recent coe survey on discrimination most of the respondents cited RCMP as the main blunt discrimination but less on carding from EPS.

    As an anecdote a few weeks ago I had a EPS encounter here at home. My wife accidentally dialed 911 instead of 311. EPS were here almost immediately, while my wife was upstairs in the laundry room. i didn't know why she called EPS at the time. They buzzed and announced themselves and I let them upstairs. They just wanted a look around the suite to make sure everything was ok. I then took them up to the laundry room and my wife explained what had happened. Satisfied with that. They were still following up a few days latter.

    That being said there's no call for racial profiling from EPS or any branch of any Police or even Bylaw services. The other day a co worker and I were at the West entrance of Corona station platform about 9:15 and the LRT police were on the platform checking for proof of payment. One of them was headed strait for us so I brought out my pass and he ignored us for a black fellow paces behind us.

    Even as I type this EPS has had a huge recruiting billboard just off the side walk here in Clareview. it got blown down a few times due to the heavy winds lately. After that last huge wind storm a few days ago, the following morning my wife said she saw the poster on the ground by Walmart.

    So its not just EPS etc, carding even happens at the Bylaw level.
    Last edited by envaneo; 30-06-2017 at 11:59 AM.
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  15. #515

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    ^When you say 'carding' do you mean just asking questions or actually asking for I.D.
    If law enforcement are just asking general questions like asking for proof of payment, did you see this accident/incident, were you involved etc. well, that's just asking general questions. When they ask you for I.D. and write down your approx. weight, high, ethnicity etc. and they do this for no reason, that's carding.
    It seems very Orwellian to me. I am all for cops engaging the public but not for them carding.
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  16. #516
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    I'm left to wonder what 'doing her a solid' actually means.
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  17. #517

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    I have witnessed a few cardings. 3 or 4 of the 4 or 6 i saw were on first nations people. One police officer with talk with the person and the other will reach into the person's pockets looking for drugs, weapons etc. Illegal search IMHO.
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  18. #518

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I'm left to wonder what 'doing her a solid' actually means.
    It's urban slang for doing someone a favor. I know, who knew.


    http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...me%20a%20solid
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  19. #519

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    I'm left to wonder what 'doing her a solid' actually means.
    Some curious NA slang saying that would obviously be taken completely differently in a UK world of Benny Hill and the Carry On gang.

    jk aside I knew of the saying but it tends to be wannabe vernacular. Its the kind of thing one would hear most in a Junior High School or even Jail. Which gave me a double take for a different reason coming from an alleged professional. That, and her "I'm a P, can't you just give me a ride home or something".. I know she was inebriated but not great lingo to be using. Kind of diminished her in addition to the impaired charge and speeding while being impaired.

    Which leads me to my next point that I hope she gets dinged with both impaired and driving dangerously charges AND resisting a police officer although I doubt any of that happens.

    3K lost wages? cry me a river. This person, being EPS, has high pay, best benefits, and a strong union that basically insures her job regardless. Plus that she probably got her job due to equal opportunity hiring, as I wonder if its due to being an equal asset to the department.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I have witnessed a few cardings. 3 or 4 of the 4 or 6 i saw were on first nations people. One police officer with talk with the person and the other will reach into the person's pockets looking for drugs, weapons etc. Illegal search IMHO.
    Only illegal if it isn't voluntary or if there isn't a safety risk. Eg. Police stop a guy they know from prior incidents and they know he usually carries a weapon and while dealing with him he keeps shoving his hands in his pockets. They can do a pat down just to make sure there isn't a safety risk. It's been awhile since I took a law course but I believe that's common law.

  21. #521

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    In any jurisdiction where the use has been challenged, stopping carding has been difficult.

    While carding itself, on a superficial level, would appear to be a biased, poorly advised tactic, the other side is that criminal profiling and witness reports and looking out for possible suspects exist.

    The prohibition of one, arguably impacting the efficacy of another.

    So that if we prohibit carding do we limit the ability of the police force in responding to suspects. As even mentioned by EPS directly the carding tends to occur very near recent, investigated crimes in which the carded are possibly suspected. Based on descriptions received.

    Its a complicated area, and important to consider all aspects.

    On the surface I don't like carding, but I know why its done.

    The other point, and this does not get as much consideration is that Police primarily card in lower economic districts where crime is rampant, where repeat crime is manifest by many individuals, and where street front police work tends to require much more of a hands on approach to help stymie out of control crime. The thing people really don't know is how many individuals being carded are "known to police" and for reasons of reported and suspected crime. Not all instances, obviously, but often. At any given time in Edmonton the police are dealing with people on the street that have a 100 charges that are just perpetually re-released.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-07-2017 at 12:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In any jurisdiction where the use has been challenged, stopping carding has been difficult.

    While carding itself, on a superficial level, would appear to be a biased, poorly advised tactic, the other side is that criminal profiling and witness reports and looking out for possible suspects exist.

    The prohibition of one, arguably impacting the efficacy of another.

    So that if we prohibit carding do we limit the ability of the police force in responding to suspects. As even mentioned by EPS directly the carding tends to occur very near recent, investigated crimes in which the carded are possibly suspected. Based on descriptions received.

    Its a complicated area, and important to consider all aspects.

    On the surface I don't like carding, but I know why its done.
    I couldn't say it any better but here's an opinion piece that does http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...tance-not-race

  23. #523

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
    In any jurisdiction where the use has been challenged, stopping carding has been difficult.

    While carding itself, on a superficial level, would appear to be a biased, poorly advised tactic, the other side is that criminal profiling and witness reports and looking out for possible suspects exist.

    The prohibition of one, arguably impacting the efficacy of another.

    So that if we prohibit carding do we limit the ability of the police force in responding to suspects. As even mentioned by EPS directly the carding tends to occur very near recent, investigated crimes in which the carded are possibly suspected. Based on descriptions received.

    Its a complicated area, and important to consider all aspects.

    On the surface I don't like carding, but I know why its done.
    I couldn't say it any better but here's an opinion piece that does http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...tance-not-race
    I hadn't seen the article, so thank you for linking it. Quite impressed with his forthright response. Knecht did really well in responding to this sensitive area. I note as well that he expanded on what I described as street checks in areas that are rampant with crime and that contain countless serial offenders that are known to police. He even quotes that 77% of carded are known to police which is what I already knew from previous research.

    The press, perhaps unfortunately, will browbeat a police force over something like this and its a convenient "outrage" stance to take but without understanding the complexity of police work that those vulnerable to the crimes (translation Anybody else in the area) want to occur. These are can't win instances for police. Don't actively investigate and at street level and they are not doing enough. Do it and they're racist profiling..
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  24. #524

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    Another comment here because, as a community based worker I have had an opportunity to intimately view police work in lower economic areas.

    There was specific criticism of aboriginal women being carded, questioned. That this occurs especially in lower income areas. What isn't noted, is, and this is unpleasant to state, that aboriginal women are over represented (nearly all prostitutes in these areas are aboriginal). Further, the specific carding is not Always identifying that person as a suspect, its also that the person could be identified as a potential witness. Specifically witnesses to Johns, and people soliciting in these areas. I will note here as well that if you are female, and appear aboriginal in these areas that Johns are known to stop and accost even young girls, as young as 12-14, walking home from school. I have worked with 100's of first nations, metis, families and this is their experience for female children, youth, growing up in disadvantaged areas of disgusting Johns basically harassing them for sex nonstop and on the way to and from school. Nothing of which disgusts me more.

    But I state this because, in short, EVERY aboriginal women that has ever ventured outside in some of these areas associated with prostitution has been the victim of John solicitations at some point. Every one of them could be volunteering information to the police regarding this heinous crime.

    So this is the kind of thing police are responding to in these areas. its up to the respective communities to be effective witnesses to these types of crimes to "take back" their communities from those Johns who debase, accost and molest these communities.
    Last edited by Replacement; 01-07-2017 at 12:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^When you say 'carding' do you mean just asking questions or actually asking for I.D.
    If law enforcement are just asking general questions like asking for proof of payment, did you see this accident/incident, were you involved etc. well, that's just asking general questions. When they ask you for I.D. and write down your approx. weight, high, ethnicity etc. and they do this for no reason, that's carding.
    It seems very Orwellian to me. I am all for cops engaging the public but not for them carding.
    Carding is generally asking for I.D.

    These were LRT Police or security guards. I just call them LRT cops. We were too busy waiting for the incoming train to notice. I didn't see anything but by passing us for the black guy slightly behind us and off to our right, I'd say that's carding. I didn't know if the black guy got on the train behind us.

    In May while out of the overpass at Southgate EPS was there by the escalator/stairs occasionally asking for proof of payment. They do this several times a year just to connect with the public. But yes I agree with you that this is too "Orwellian 1984" ish in 2017.
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    Replacement, while the police shouldn't get a free pass for all their actions, I agree with you that often times their actions can be misinterpreted certain ways if someone doesn't understand police procedures and simply looks at stats.

    Now, none of that excuses the actions of the female police officer pulled over for speeding and being drunk. She should have the book thrown at her. I have ZERO tolerance for drunk driving - I can name the two times I had a single drink and got behind the wheel.
    They're going to park their car over there. You're going to park your car over here. Get it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^When you say 'carding' do you mean just asking questions or actually asking for I.D.
    If law enforcement are just asking general questions like asking for proof of payment, did you see this accident/incident, were you involved etc. well, that's just asking general questions. When they ask you for I.D. and write down your approx. weight, high, ethnicity etc. and they do this for no reason, that's carding.
    It seems very Orwellian to me. I am all for cops engaging the public but not for them carding.
    Carding is generally asking for I.D.

    These were LRT Police or security guards. I just call them LRT cops. We were too busy waiting for the incoming train to notice. I didn't see anything but by passing us for the black guy slightly behind us and off to our right, I'd say that's carding. I didn't know if the black guy got on the train behind us.

    In May while out of the overpass at Southgate EPS was there by the escalator/stairs occasionally asking for proof of payment. They do this several times a year just to connect with the public. But yes I agree with you that this is too "Orwellian 1984" ish in 2017.
    They might have just been checking for fare which is completely normal on train platforms

  28. #528
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    ^ Doubtful because they went right by us out of their way to the black guy. The cop could have asked us for ID as well but didn't.
    Last edited by envaneo; 02-07-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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  29. #529

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    Where can I see these statistics?

    It would be interesting to see if particular age range (say those under 30 yrs as opposed to those over, what, maybe 60 yrs) gets carded disproportionately. Or if one, or more, sex/gender(s) is disproportionately carded and whether that reflects 'discrimination' based on age and sex.



    Edmonton Police Association defends street checks - Edmonton - CBC News

    But defence lawyer says carding 'disproportionately targets a certain group' and the effect is 'racist'

    Andrea Huncar · CBC News
    4 Hours Ago


    He also rebukes media outlets for their coverage of street checks.

    "The practice of throwing out statistics without placing them in context is irresponsible and not proper investigative journalism," says Huculak. "We challenge the media to get the full story."


    http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/e...ding-1.4190512



    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 05:48 PM.

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    I don't care if cops deny allegation about carding but carding is still consider as racial profiling period.
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  32. #532

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    I suspect there are other traits there ("gangster" clothing, tattoos, time of day, where they are loitering, open liquor, etc.)

    I used to get carded by police a lot when I was younger because I wore long hair and wore torn up jeans. Changed my hairstyle and clothing to something respectable and the problem was solved. I bet most of the people who get carded today look dodgy no matter what their ancestry is.

  33. #533

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    The charts are interesting. The relative number of white women getting carded is fascinating. No age stats?

  34. #534

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I suspect there are other traits there ("gangster" clothing, tattoos, time of day, where they are loitering, open liquor, etc.)

    I used to get carded by police a lot when I was younger because I wore long hair and wore torn up jeans. Changed my hairstyle and clothing to something respectable and the problem was solved. I bet most of the people who get carded today look dodgy no matter what their ancestry is.
    So you're saying that the carders are Fashion Police?

    Sounds like something out of some country that we'd generally despise.
    Last edited by KC; 05-07-2017 at 09:33 PM.

  35. #535

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I suspect there are other traits there ("gangster" clothing, tattoos, time of day, where they are loitering, open liquor, etc.)

    I used to get carded by police a lot when I was younger because I wore long hair and wore torn up jeans. Changed my hairstyle and clothing to something respectable and the problem was solved. I bet most of the people who get carded today look dodgy no matter what their ancestry is.
    So you're saying that the carders are Fashion Police?
    They sure seemed like it when I was younger. I doubt much has changed.

    And I believe, in general, you CAN judge a person by how they choose to present themselves in public. I also believe that everyone does it to some extent (not just law enforcement).

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    They sure seemed like it when I was younger. I doubt much has changed.

    And I believe, in general, you CAN judge a person by how they choose to present themselves in public. I also believe that everyone does it to some extent (not just law enforcement).
    Sometimes how someone presents themselves isn't a choice they get to make willingly for a variety of reasons, including socioeconomic.

    Judging someone by what they wear instead of who they are (which encompasses far more than their appearance) is narrow minded.

  37. #537

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    Perhaps, but unfortunately all that police and other who haven't had a chance to become intimately acquainted have only the immediate visual information - clothing, skin colour, facial features, sex, hair, grooming, body type and posture.

    I would rather that police be blind to such things but it's just reality, and human nature.

    Edit: You and I do it to, despite knowing better.
    Which is why carding shouldn't be a normal practice - expecting police not to be human is hopeless.
    Last edited by Highlander II; 06-07-2017 at 08:41 AM.
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  38. #538

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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    I don't care if cops deny allegation about carding but carding is still consider as racial profiling period.
    The cops don't deny they do carding but they are trying to come up with an answer the public with swallow as to why they do it.
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    Good policing is all about intelligence and information gathering. In Edmonton, carding is referred to as a Street Information Report or SIR. Like it or not, It is essential in policing.

  40. #540

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    Carding by any other name is still carding. Through Freedom of Information certain groups obtained EPS records for the last 6 years and found statistically that certain groups of people have been carded more than others. Natives and blacks were by far carded way more often than a white person while Asian people are carded less than whites. The groups that were carded the most want to know why. I have never been carded so don't have a personal story on this one.

    http://globalnews.ca/news/3559077/ab...monton-police/
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    You call police in the middle of the night because your car has been broken into. You call the police and tell them 2 young males were responsible and are now walking away. Police arrive, see 2 black or aboriginal teens walking a block away. Because they are not allowed to"card" these individuals they drive by and do nothing. Is that the type of policing you want?

  42. #542

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    You call police in the middle of the night because your car has been broken into. You call the police and tell them 2 young males were responsible and are now walking away. Police arrive, see 2 black or aboriginal teens walking a block away. Because they are not allowed to"card" these individuals they drive by and do nothing. Is that the type of policing you want?
    Hmm carding would do what? Breach of parole maybe?

    Otherwise, stopping them and then getting the witness to identify them would seem reasonable - to some degree depending on time, distance, walking population in area, degree of correlation with witness description, etc. Carding them and ignoring two other individuals running away might be a poor decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    You call police in the middle of the night because your car has been broken into. You call the police and tell them 2 young males were responsible and are now walking away. Police arrive, see 2 black or aboriginal teens walking a block away. Because they are not allowed to"card" these individuals they drive by and do nothing. Is that the type of policing you want?


    That is not carding. If the individuals in the area matched a description given by a witness, they could absolutely be stopped and even placed under arrest. Carding is voluntary, although I'm sure officers don't make that apparent when doing it. Someone can walk away at any time. The problem with carding is that it's done at random, even if there are no crimes in progress reported or the people being carded do not match any given suspect descriptions.

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    The situation I described could lead to two outcomes. One, they get arrested and charged with breaking into the car. Two, there is not enough evidence to charge but you suspect they are responsible so you take names and put in a Street Information Report "carding". That is the nature of policing and what effective good police do.

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    How do you know that? Do you talk from experience, have you ever carded someone?

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    Try using the quote feature, otherwise your question in the post above has no context and no one knows who or what you're asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug View Post
    The situation I described could lead to two outcomes. One, they get arrested and charged with breaking into the car. Two, there is not enough evidence to charge but you suspect they are responsible so you take names and put in a Street Information Report "carding". That is the nature of policing and what effective good police do.
    And no one is proposing stopping the police from doing just that. Again, if a crime has been reported with suspect descriptions, police can stop and detain individuals matching those descriptions in the vicinity of the crime. That is NOT carding.

    This link was more in relation to the Toronto police force, but the issues are largely the same: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carding_(police_policy)

    Carding, which is officially known as the Community Contacts Policy,[1] is an intelligence gathering policy of the Toronto Police Service involving the stopping, questioning, and documenting of individuals when no particular offence is being investigated.
    Bolding mine.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 07-07-2017 at 12:43 PM.

  47. #547

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    everyone's probably seen the article on the guy getting hit with a speeding ticket for going 1 km an hour over. Strathcona county peace officer wrote it the other day. Following public backlash a review of the traffic stop was conducted and the ticket was thrown out. Apparently the supervisor mentioned the peace officer lied when writing the ticket. The supervisor also claims the driver was going 10-15km over but they couldn't tell for sure.

    Interesting things to come from this. First yay for the dash cam and its great to see them review it right away. Every police vehicle should have one but few actually do. It's interesting they don't record speed.

    What im curious about is if the officer lied on the ticket should he not be charged? If he wrote the ticket he would have to be prepared to back his claims up in court. If the guy didnt have legal grounds to pull someone over for speeding then why would he? Why would we allow our peace/police officers to fabricate a story.

    If the peace officer didnt have legal grounds to write a speeding ticket he should have let him off with a warning or written the guy a ticket for some other infraction. Instead he completely fabricates the ticket and this is totally acceptable by the supervisors?!?

  48. #548
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    I would think that the Alberta Justice and Solicitor General would be investigating this as I believe that is their role:

    https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progra...mpliments.aspx

    I would assume that the guy made a complaint.

  49. #549

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    Quote Originally Posted by gwill211 View Post
    everyone's probably seen the article on the guy getting hit with a speeding ticket for going 1 km an hour over. Strathcona county peace officer wrote it the other day. Following public backlash a review of the traffic stop was conducted and the ticket was thrown out. Apparently the supervisor mentioned the peace officer lied when writing the ticket. The supervisor also claims the driver was going 10-15km over but they couldn't tell for sure.

    Interesting things to come from this. First yay for the dash cam and its great to see them review it right away. Every police vehicle should have one but few actually do. It's interesting they don't record speed.

    What im curious about is if the officer lied on the ticket should he not be charged? If he wrote the ticket he would have to be prepared to back his claims up in court. If the guy didnt have legal grounds to pull someone over for speeding then why would he? Why would we allow our peace/police officers to fabricate a story.

    If the peace officer didnt have legal grounds to write a speeding ticket he should have let him off with a warning or written the guy a ticket for some other infraction. Instead he completely fabricates the ticket and this is totally acceptable by the supervisors?!?
    Sturgeon county actually. Here's the story. http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...kmh-over-limit

    "However, the county is throwing out the ticket because the officer erroneously stated the driver’s speed was measured by radar or laser when the ticket was actually based on the officer’s estimate, the statement said."

  50. #550

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    If only there was some sort of impartial, automated way of enforcing speed limits...
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  51. #551

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Doug
    You call police in the middle of the night because your car has been broken into. You call the police and tell them 2 young males were responsible and are now walking away. Police arrive, see 2 black or aboriginal teens walking a block away. Because they are not allowed to"card" these individuals they drive by and do nothing. Is that the type of policing you want?


    That is not carding. If the individuals in the area matched a description given by a witness, they could absolutely be stopped and even placed under arrest. Carding is voluntary, although I'm sure officers don't make that apparent when doing it. Someone can walk away at any time. The problem with carding is that it's done at random, even if there are no crimes in progress reported or the people being carded do not match any given suspect descriptions.
    I haven't been in this thread for awhile and so haven't seen this post until now. You take a Wikipedia article, probably revised by such orgs as black lives matter, as a definition of the circumstances and use of carding when this was actually discussed in detail earlier in the thread.

    You seem to not know what carding is and why it is used. I'll relink the EPS police chief speaking about carding and why it is used as a police tool;

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...tance-not-race

    "In Edmonton, street checks are, in essence, conversations between a member of the public and a police officer. They are most often initiated by an officer in response to a call for service, crime trends or public safety concerns. For example, a person peering into backyards at 3 a.m. or checking locks on vehicles in a parking lot will be the subject of a street check."
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  52. #552

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    There are no regulations imposed on vehicle manufacturers in North America to ensure that their speedometers are accurate. Therefore, I find it funny that the police can even give you a ticket for anything within any kind of "buffer" without there having been a test to see what the average accuracy is. 10km/h over on the highway, well even 12-13 could be attributed to inaccuracies of the speedometer and you shouldn't get ticketed. Now if you're doing 20+ over, you should be able to tell even without a speedometer and there's really no excuse there. Police and photo radar are forced to do calibration tests every 3 years on their speed detection equipment, but vehicle manufacturers don't have to calibrate their speedometers to within any kind of regulated accuracy...

    Disclaimer: I hate speeding tickets, so I don't speed. But IF I ever got one for doing <5km/h over the speed limit, I would fight it. Maybe Transport Canada should impose regulations if they want to enforce speeds accurately.

  53. #553

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    Most courts will throw tickets out for those amounts. Most officers won't pull you over on the highway for less than 15km/h, usually 20km/h over the posted limit. Inside the city 10km/h seems normal.

    Photo radar for 6km/h or more in school zones only.

    Speedometers can be out just by changing tires.

  54. #554

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    Seems to me there was a bit more than just a speeding ticket going on. How about this 'officers' arrogance. Telling the guy he's being disrespectful by passing him. Who does the officer think he is?. Officer Superior should be told he is no better than anyone else out there. He's just another dude going about his work day like the rest of the stiffs. .


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...kmh-over-limit
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  55. #555

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Seems to me there was a bit more than just a speeding ticket going on. How about this 'officers' arrogance. Telling the guy he's being disrespectful by passing him. Who does the officer think he is?. Officer Superior should be told he is no better than anyone else out there. He's just another dude going about his work day like the rest of the stiffs. .


    http://edmontonjournal.com/news/loca...kmh-over-limit
    This is what I thought as well. How interesting that the officer outs his own personal feelings that its "disrespectful" for a driver to pass him. This doesn't invoke a paid public servant that has a job to be a service to the public, it reveals the attitude of somebody that feels the public is under his thumb.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  56. #556

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    Guy who got the ticket has just been on the news. He said the reason he fought it was because he did not want to get d merits and for his insurance to go up because of them. Some talking head in authority said the ticket was not cancelled because of the 1 km. over but because Officer Superior had just estimated the guys speed and that's not excepted.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

  57. #557

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    The officer checked radar/laser instead of estimated on the ticket. But he actually didn't register the speed with radar or laser.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/3755100/al...fine-reversed/

    I doubt the guy actually passed legally, if the peace officer was just under the limit, then it would take a long time to pass without going over the limit. Really, passing a cop that close to the speed limit is just asking for trouble, he could have just followed and got where he was going without all the aggravation he's gone through.

    But the cop should have ticketed him properly. Either get a correct speed with radar or laser, or check estimated speed on the ticket.

    In the end the County has done the right thing and rescinded the ticket. Hopefully the guy learned something, and the officer will be more careful in following correct procedure in the future.

  58. #558
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Guy who got the ticket has just been on the news. He said the reason he fought it was because he did not want to get d merits and for his insurance to go up because of them. Some talking head in authority said the ticket was not cancelled because of the 1 km. over but because Officer Superior had just estimated the guys speed and that's not excepted.
    Actually, as ridiculous as it sounds, an officer CAN give out a ticket even if it's just his 'judgement" and he did not in fact have a device to measure the offender's speed. In this case, it was thrown out on a technicality, because he ticked the wrong box.

    I know that because I looked in to the laws about 10 years ago when I got pulled over by an RCMP vehicle in BC that was travelling in the opposite direction. We passed each other on a tight, blind corner, and a minute or two later he pulled me over after turning around. How he could tell that our closing speed was 200 km/h or 210 km/h when we literally saw each other for less than a couple seconds is beyond me. He also didn't write a speed on the ticket, but the fine amount indicated it was for 10-20 km/h over the limit, or something like that. I could easily have fought the ticket for that reason, but didn't want to drive to Clearwater for the 80 bucks or whatever it was (it never showed up on my driving record, so no demerits). I asked my lawyer sister about it, and she cited the code sections where it says that so long as an "expert" estimated the speed, it could be enforced.

    Long story short, that officer was fishing for something and trumped up a BS excuse to pull me over. As he was walking up to the vehicle, a nice pickup truck with a canopy, he pretty much cupped his hands against the canopy window to see what was inside. I suppose a few coolers and inflatables from a houseboating trip wasn't as incriminating as he'd hoped.

  59. #559

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    the peace officer has a legal threshold that he must be able to prove in court. What was his plan when he took the stand in front of a judge. To lie?? He lied on the paperwork in multiple areas. It's ridiculous that this is acceptable.

    Why did the peace officer feel the need to lie on the ticket? Why not write the truth that no speed was documented. Why not write that it was an estimated speed? It would be a non issue then knowing there was a dash cam to back up the officers ticket.

  60. #560

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    Everyone was a loser in this situation. The cop largely guesstimated the speed, though it was likely clear the driver was speeding. The officer did the driver a solid by knocking it down to 1kmph over so it wasn't a much higher fine. Of course, since it was guesstimated it wasn't enforceable anyway.

    Driver should take a lesson and not speed. Cop should learn the laws.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  61. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz
    Of course, since it was guesstimated it wasn't enforceable anyway.


    Again, officers are considered "experts" and their "guesstimate" is enforceable. Had the officer completed the ticket properly, it would have been enforceable, although it would be up to a traffic court to determine that if it was challenged. Or at least, that's my understanding.

  62. #562

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    I once passed a Alberta Parks ranger driving a S10. He was doing 95 in 100 zone on a quiet hwy 11 heading east toward rocky mtn house (I was coming from Sask Crossing). He flipped on his lights after I passed him, much like this story. I pulled over safely on the side of the road. He came up to my window with his chest puffing out and with a stern tone "Didn't you see the lights on top of my truck" I said I did, and I also said I noticed he was a park ranger. That kind of ticked him off. He asked why I passed him. I said because he was under the limit, and I was in a hurry to get back to civilization. He then looked at me kind of blankly, not sure of what he was going to do next, so I asked him, what's the problem? He said you were over the speed limit while passing me. I asked him, what are you going to do, write me a ticket? He can't, and couldn't. Didn't even have the tickets to do so. "I have good mind to call RCMP and make you wait here" Okay, so are you going to call RCMP? I'm pretty sure that was a bluff, and I called it. "No not this time, just don't pass cars with lights on top of them, and don't speed, be on your way"... So he walked back to his truck, and I left before he even got to his door. I'm sure he radioed RCMP as a few on the rest of my way along hwy 11, but since I'm not stupid and figured that was the park rangers plan, I made sure to stay within a few km/h of the limit.

    Thanks for wasting my time so you can ego trip.
    Last edited by Medwards; 20-09-2017 at 12:08 PM.

  63. #563
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    The ticket was rescinded anyway thanks to local news media being all over this story. If it hadn't made the news the guy would have to pay. I'm not a expert on traffic infractions but the judge did the right thing.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

  64. #564
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    National Park rangers can issue speeding tickets. They're basically cops within the park boundaries.

  65. #565

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    Wasn't a national park ranger, it was an Alberta Conservation officer, and I was outside of a park (national and provincial)

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    Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing as I'd saw your mention that it was an Alberta ranger. Just pointing out that in both Canada and the US, national park rangers can issue speeding tickets and/or warnings, carry firearms, etc.

  67. #567

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    Speeding through a national park (especially Banff) is never a good idea, unless you like giving money away.

  68. #568

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    Spent two weeks in Banff and the mode speed of drivers seemed to be 110km this summer. The speeding was so pronounced it seemed almost dangerous to stick to the limit of 90. People were passing continuously. Virtually no enforcement was seen on the Banff to Lake Louise segment. The whole time we were there we saw one person pulled over. Saw more people getting tickets just from Airdrie to Calgary.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  69. #569
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    Normally there's quite a bit of enforcement close to Louise. But yeah, the couple times I drove through the area it seemed that prevailing traffic speed was well over 100 km/h. Frankly, I don't see why there remains a 90 km/h speed limit in the park when the highway is almost entirely fenced, and it's divided nearly all the way to field. But for all I know, maybe there still is a lot of wildlife collisions.

  70. #570

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    Yeah, theres still roadkill. The fencing is not perfect and its possible for animals to circumvent by crossing streams, straddling the highway or getting through from trail heads and other access points. The fence can't really be contiguous in all areas as it would reduce hiking trail connections or access points to such things as Johnson Canyon area. Back in 2015 there was also funding provided to repair a lot of the fence. Not sure if they have got through all of it yet. A lot of it did look new.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

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