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Thread: Behaviour of Cops in Edmonton

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    It's true. You don't need to let them search anything. But if you have nothing to hide why not...
    gah I hate this argument. If that's the case, why not give up ALL of our rights and personal freedoms because, you know, most of us have nothing to hide. People that believe this fail to see the point of something called privacy.
    This. Since when did being a private individual means you have something to hide?

    God damn what a screwy way of thinking. Why do you feel you need to proove innocence to a police officer? Its the other way around.
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  2. #102
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    Since when did a cop asking you what's in your bag suddenly mean he's looking to pin something on you? They aren't just a bunch of loose cannons. I understand and agree with and respect your opinion I am just playing devils advocate. I don't condone a police state I just think as Canadians we sometimes tend to look at things from a very far left perspective (again not a bad thing). I am just trying to bring things a little closer to centre.

  3. #103

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    If he's not looking to pin something on you, why would he want to look in your bag? It's a fishing expedition to find a crime, and an illegal one at that.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    It's true. You don't need to let them search anything. But if you have nothing to hide why not...
    gah I hate this argument. If that's the case, why not give up ALL of our rights and personal freedoms because, you know, most of us have nothing to hide. People that believe this fail to see the point of something called privacy.
    This. Since when did being a private individual means you have something to hide?

    God damn what a screwy way of thinking. Why do you feel you need to proove innocence to a police officer? Its the other way around.
    The trick is knowing when to pick your battles...

  5. #105

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    I'm a bit confused. It seems many of you believe that cops walk around questioning citizens to reaffirm their innocence.

    They are not going around making notes about how law-abiding you are. They are looking for crimes. While appeasing an intimidating officer, you may unknowingly incriminate yourself. Obliging the police is not in your best interest, ever.

    If you haven't ever seen this video, you must watch it:
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'm a bit confused. It seems many of you believe that cops walk around questioning citizens to reaffirm their innocence.

    They are not going around making notes about how law-abiding you are. They are looking for crimes. While appeasing an intimidating officer, you may unknowingly incriminate yourself. Obliging the police is not in your best interest, ever.
    That's just a naive comment and depending on circumstances and where you are in the world, a pretty dangerous attitude...Like I said above, learn to pick your battles.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by expat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I'm a bit confused. It seems many of you believe that cops walk around questioning citizens to reaffirm their innocence.

    They are not going around making notes about how law-abiding you are. They are looking for crimes. While appeasing an intimidating officer, you may unknowingly incriminate yourself. Obliging the police is not in your best interest, ever.
    That's just a naive comment and depending on circumstances and where you are in the world, a pretty dangerous attitude...Like I said above, learn to pick your battles.
    I think you're confused about who's being naive here. If not cooperating with police is dangerous in some places, that only reinforces my argument that they aren't there to help you.

    Police forces exist solely to enforce laws. If you are not currently breaking a law, nor are you being charged with breaking any laws, the police should have no interest in you. If they are asking you to do things outside of either of those, and only those circumstances, you can and absolutely should decline, no matter where you are.
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  8. #108
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    What if you match a suspect description and they're looking to rule you out? If you know you're innocent then I would say cooperate.

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    What if you match a suspect description and they're looking to rule you out? If you know you're innocent then I would say cooperate.
    Clearly. Provide your alibi and nothing else. The discussion is centered around when the police arbitrarily decide to ask you to reveal things without any good reason, such as when that officer asked me to open my suitcase when he pulled me over for no better reason than to waste my time.
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  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Police forces exist solely to enforce laws. If you are not currently breaking a law, nor are you being charged with breaking any laws, the police should have no interest in you. If they are asking you to do things outside of either of those, and only those circumstances, you can and absolutely should decline, no matter where you are.
    Ask what's the problem and how can you help. If the answer is not satisfactory or they continue to proceed, why am I being detained, am I being charged, and am I free to go.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wilson View Post
    why am I being detained, am I being charged, and am I free to go.
    Thats the key 3 terms. Just repeat over and over.
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  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Wilson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Police forces exist solely to enforce laws. If you are not currently breaking a law, nor are you being charged with breaking any laws, the police should have no interest in you. If they are asking you to do things outside of either of those, and only those circumstances, you can and absolutely should decline, no matter where you are.
    Ask what's the problem and how can you help. If the answer is not satisfactory or they continue to proceed, why am I being detained, am I being charged, and am I free to go.
    I don't get paid to help police, nor do I feel it necessary to prove my innocence for kicks. I'll stick with either being charged or moving along.
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post

    Police forces exist solely to enforce laws. If you are not currently breaking a law, nor are you being charged with breaking any laws, the police should have no interest in you. If they are asking you to do things outside of either of those, and only those circumstances, you can and absolutely should decline, no matter where you are.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqowmHgxVJQ

  14. #114
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    I think skepticism, indeed cynacism of EPS is not so much a reflection of all cops are bad, rather ...

    Not a one of the really, really bad cops on this force ever seems to have to pay the price.

    One thug dressed in blue after another gets away with multiple taserings, beatings, intimidation, use of private records etc. and EPS does nothing. Well, not quite - they cover up.

    So, should cynacism be surprising? Easiest thing in the world to cure - if an organization actually wants to.
    ... gobsmacked

  15. #115

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    I can't believe believe no one here is talking about this...



    I really want to stand behind the EPS but for the love of pete they NEED to clean house!!

    Edmonton Police Video Sparks Review Of Alleged Brutality (GRAPHIC)

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05...p_ref=edmonton

    The Edmonton Journal reported the EPS has said they have launched “self-initiated review,” into the police officer's conduct and that the men at the centre of the incident were charged with intoxication and littering.

    The caption on the video, which was posted by YouTube user zyon18, reads, "The police are beating up these two guys because they threw a pizza slice to the garbage bin and they missed. I think they take littering very seriously."
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 26-05-2013 at 09:28 AM.
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  16. #116

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    Police conduct needs to be overseen by judges, not internal peers.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  17. #117
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    ^ 100% agreed

  18. #118

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    Sad thing is, a lot of the comments on Youtube on that video are "he deserved it"

    People wont wake up till Police Brutality happens to them or someone they love.
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    = as sad, or even more sadly, I think we all know what we can predict with almost 100% certainty what will come of this.

    Yes, the word nothing does come to mind.
    ... gobsmacked

  20. #120

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    Edmonton constable fired for punching handcuffed suspect, then lying about it

    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...#ixzz2UWvyC78X

    Const. Frank Quaidoo was convicted under the Police Act of one count of excessive force and two counts of deceit stemming from the May 2008 incident outside Eastglen High School.
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  21. #121

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    ^
    I remember that incident well. Misho who was the SRO at the time got beaten up pretty bad. Had his jaw wired shut. Tried to get into the middle of a fight and the people fighting turned on him and beat him down. Thats Eastglen/Northside for yah.

    Quaidoo was one of the officers called in for backup. Obviously upset what had happened to his partner he took it out on the handcuffed suspect.
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  22. #122

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    Can't believe it took 5 years, and that there were no criminal charges. Totally above the law.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  23. #123

    Default Hidden Cops

    I was driving down 23rd ave once, before it was re-developed. There was an accident Northbound. So the drivers were crossing the dirt median to turn around. There was no other way to go. But low and behold, just beyond the bridge sits hidden cops...pulling folks over one by one to give them, me included, tickets for making an illegal U-Turn! I told the cop I thought it was ridiculous, which didn't help my case. Cop says to me 'it is technically illegal to make a U-Turn and if I kept questioning him he could likely find other fines for me.' Have a nice day officer.

  24. #124
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    Police in edmonton is usually rude.

  25. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueNoser View Post
    I was driving down 23rd ave once, before it was re-developed. There was an accident Northbound. So the drivers were crossing the dirt median to turn around. There was no other way to go. But low and behold, just beyond the bridge sits hidden cops...pulling folks over one by one to give them, me included, tickets for making an illegal U-Turn! I told the cop I thought it was ridiculous, which didn't help my case. Cop says to me 'it is technically illegal to make a U-Turn and if I kept questioning him he could likely find other fines for me.' Have a nice day officer.
    Rather than those same police moving forward and directing the traffic jam to a suitable detour.

    I once was going by Rexall after working late just as the Oilers game was finished. They had an officer hired to direct traffic after the game. He stopped all traffic on WGD southbound at Rexall.
    Instead of alternating between the exiting cars from the parking lot and traffic on WGD he held all the traffic SB for 15 minutes until the last car left the lot. He then walked to the side of the road, threw his traffic vest on the ground and walked away leaving the huge traffic jam backed up for a mile to wait for the traffic lights. I guess he was in a rush to collect his cheque.
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  26. #126

    Default Trapped fitness class waited in vain for Edmonton police

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...706/story.html

    Schneider said the dispatcher told her to be patient because police were doing a shift change. When officers still hadn’t responded 10 minutes later, she phoned again. And then again. During that fourth phone call, she was again reassured police were on their way.
    4 calls, that's EPS for ya!

    “When we tried to open the door, we couldn’t, because they’d barricaded us (in) with a two-by-eight piece of wood,” Schneider said.
    Eventually, the group was able to force the door open.
    Schneider said two police officers finally showed up at 7:27 a.m., more than an hour after her first call. She later learned they hadn’t even been dispatched until 7:15 a.m.
    It's a good thing these folks aren't the ones paying for this terrible service... oh wait.

    If you expect EPS to do anything other than show up hours after the fact, you're setting your expectations much too high.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  27. #127

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    In the mind of the Edmonton Police SERVICE they did a great job. The officers were dispatched at 7:15 and got there in less than 15 minutes at 7:27.

  28. #128

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    Love the "close the ranks" mentality of the EPS here.

    This is galling:

    Edmonton police Insp. Blair Edl said an initial review of the case shows it was handled and dispatched properly according to EPS standards.

    And what standards are those? After you've tucked away your second Dutchie with a large double double?

    And then this which had the bile rising in my throat:

    Edl said he has listened to the 911 calls, and that the situation became clearer after the third call. As it was, he said dispatchers planned to have the next available units, who were starting at 7 a.m., respond to the call. He said the call evaluator is a police officer, who did an “excellent job” handling the call.

    So someone clearly didn't do an excellent job since between the time of the first call and the arrival of our version of Reed and Malloy they were "locked inside a safe premise". Good ol' Blair failed to mention it was the perps who'd locked them in from the outside.

    Having lived in five major Canadian cities, hands down, this is the worst police force in the country. They are an embarassment. Closing ranks and saying it was up to standards is the most reprehensible part of this whole incident.

  29. #129
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    “They all recognize there were holes. They’re not even covering it up. It is what it is and they’re blaming it on the systems and budget cuts,”

    BUDGET CUTS !! Are you freaking serious.. How much of an increase does EPS get every year ??? How much money is spent of salaries ?? Give me a god dam break...
    They more they get paid, the lazier and stupid-er they get..

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    Even if this was a reasonable response time (big assumption), what angered Ms Schneider most, according to an interview I heard this morning, is that the very first operator lied to her, telling her that a car was being dispatched. Had she realized she (and her group) were in for an hour's wait, they could have called for help among friends and family. Perhaps they could have checked the situation from outside the locked door to figure out what was really going on.

    Now. Is that really the solution the EPS wants to encourage? I thought not.

    This whole situation angers me. I always believed that having someone trying to bang down my door *was* a valid 911 situation. Whether or not I knew they had a weapon.

    Eve

  31. #131

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    Shift change, right...


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  32. #132

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    ^That's not even EPS..

  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmrose View Post
    I am just curious as to why you would include "blue collar" under a list of unlawful references being used to describe people that you think have run ins with the law. Just another example of assumptions being made about something or someone you know nothing about. *Annoying*
    That and unemployed people too. I am not unemployed by choice and I can definitely say all my dealings with police have been on the reporting of crimes in progress end. I think they have a bad stereotyped idea in their head.

  34. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC View Post
    ^That's not even EPS..
    If I posted EPS cars then you would ask for proof that those were the cars in the same area on the same day.





    It is called comic relief...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 29-07-2013 at 05:56 PM.
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  35. #135

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    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    You've been arrested lately I presume.

  37. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    but these are the same 'heavy handed' enforcers you embrace when it comes to singling out motorcyclists with alleged noise infractions, correct? or do we get to select when our police force is competent?
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  38. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    but these are the same 'heavy handed' enforcers you embrace when it comes to singling out motorcyclists with alleged noise infractions, correct? or do we get to select when our police force is competent?
    I don't find them competent in any area. I like the law aimed at keeping vehicle noise down, but the enforcers of that law are still just as sucky as ever.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  39. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    but these are the same 'heavy handed' enforcers you embrace when it comes to singling out motorcyclists with alleged noise infractions, correct? or do we get to select when our police force is competent?
    I don't find them competent in any area. I like the law aimed at keeping vehicle motorcycle noise down, but the enforcers of that law are still just as sucky as ever.
    haha you are consistent Chmilz, and I'll respect that. But I will correct your statement to read more accurate.
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  40. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Those could be patrol cars from any police department in Canada. There's a good number of Tim's here that are heavily frequented by our heavy-handed law enforcers.
    but these are the same 'heavy handed' enforcers you embrace when it comes to singling out motorcyclists with alleged noise infractions, correct? or do we get to select when our police force is competent?
    I don't find them competent in any area. I like the law aimed at keeping vehicle noise down, but the enforcers of that law are still just as sucky as ever.
    I'm sure you could do better?

  41. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MSC View Post
    ^That's not even EPS..
    If I posted EPS cars then you would ask for proof that those were the cars in the same area on the same day.





    It is called comic relief...
    its called everyone is entitled to lunch and to breaks...
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  42. #142

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    ^^They're competent jerks.

    bpeters - yes, I said vehicles. It's not my fault the law only applies to motorcycles at the moment. I would also enjoy it applying to fart-can ricers and jacked rig-rockets, and any vehicle with a broken exhaust system in general.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  43. #143

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    Times have changed and so will police.... thanks to cell phone. All this because of cell phone video.

    Hundreds protest police violence for streetcar shooting victim, Sammy Yatim
    http://globalnews.ca/news/748701/pro...m-sammy-yatim/
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  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    ^^They're competent jerks.

    bpeters - yes, I said vehicles. It's not my fault the law only applies to motorcycles at the moment. I would also enjoy it applying to fart-can ricers and jacked rig-rockets, and any vehicle with a broken exhaust system in general.
    +1

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    Am I the only one who thinks the po po are overreacting to the BASE jumpers off the Pearl? I would think they had more important things to do, such as reducing the city's murder rate, or witchhunting website owners they personally don't like.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  46. #146

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    yep, you are the only one who thinks that. The activity is illegal. They should be caught and penalized to the full extent of the law.
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  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    yep, you are the only one who thinks that. The activity is illegal. They should be caught and penalized to the full extent of the law.
    Actually no, the "activity" of BASE jumping itself is not illegal as far as I'm aware.

    Getting to the top of the building in the first place is the illegal part.

    I think it's a waste of police resources to locate whoever did it, outside of catching them red handed. Far bigger fish to fry.

  48. #148

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    Although I've never been the victim of a serious crime, I've been the victim of small crimes - crimes larger than base jumpers - and the police haven't given the remotest of sh-ts.

    To make a big deal about this is a slap in the face of every single person that's filed a crime report and had nothing done about it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  49. #149

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    I can't think of a more inconsequential crime to be concerned about.

  50. #150
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    I was surprised this made the media. Maybe the cops are just trying to deter future behaviours such as that. Because base jumping is such a public event the EPS decided to make their search for the suspects equally public for deterrence purposes... I could be wrong though.

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    ^ with you on that. Maybe these guys are experts and no danger to anyone. Maybe the copycat won't be so expert ...
    ... gobsmacked

  52. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I can't think of a more inconsequential crime to be concerned about.
    Motorcycle noise bylaw?
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    yep, you are the only one who thinks that. The activity is illegal. They should be caught and penalized to the full extent of the law.
    Actually no, the "activity" of BASE jumping itself is not illegal as far as I'm aware.

    Getting to the top of the building in the first place is the illegal part.

    I think it's a waste of police resources to locate whoever did it, outside of catching them red handed. Far bigger fish to fry.
    Fair enough. Trespassing then. don't care. some aspect of it is illegal. What's the overreaction? Some seem to think EPS put all their resources into finding and capturing these heroes. It probably got put on a desk and a phone call made. who knows. Maybe the news story and EPS quotes are simply meant as a deterrent? As McBoo mentioned, maybe the next one.....
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

  54. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I can't think of a more inconsequential crime to be concerned about.
    Motorcycle noise bylaw?
    Except everyone in Edmonton* wanted that bylaw.

    *With the exception of a pathetically small minority of motorcycle owners with noise-enhancing exhaust systems in place specifically to make noise with no benefit
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  55. #155

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    I thought the cops were supposed to be trained to defuse situations before they go sideways. To use their guns as the absolute last resort in a situation. It seems in a lot of these cases it's shoot first and defuse the situation after. Pepper spray can go a long way in stopping a unruly person(s). Blinding a person(s) would give a cop enough time to get back to his vehicle and call backup and enough time to get his taser from the trunk.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I thought the cops were supposed to be trained to defuse situations before they go sideways. To use their guns as the absolute last resort in a situation. It seems in a lot of these cases it's shoot first and defuse the situation after. Pepper spray can go a long way in stopping a unruly person(s). Blinding a person(s) would give a cop enough time to get back to his vehicle and call backup and enough time to get his taser from the trunk.
    Yes I'm sure you've been trained in use of force and have been in many similar situations and made the right call everytime You weren't there, you have no valid opinion. Wait for the trained ASIRT investigators to come out with their ruling before you jump to conclusions.

  57. #157
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    Those police shootings from this past weekend involved the RCMP, not EPS.
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  58. #158

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    Once again, Edmonton's finest reinforce the poor impression I already have...

    About an hour ago my wife was driving north on 97st, sitting at the red light at 104ave. She's in the right lane and there's a larger vehicle in the left lane signalling to make a turn. Light turns green and she starts to drive through the intersection.

    And slams on her brakes, skidding, to avoid the cop car that came flying through the red light without a siren on.

    No siren. Red light. Right next to police HQ.

    There was no way for her to see it coming with the large vehicle next to her. Had it hit her, she would have likely been killed. She couldn't get the car number in time (the cop was speeding, of course) otherwise she would have immediately went to the station and filed a complaint.

    I'd really like to see the side of EPS that makes me not hate them.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  59. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Once again, Edmonton's finest reinforce the poor impression I already have...

    About an hour ago my wife was driving north on 97st, sitting at the red light at 104ave. She's in the right lane and there's a larger vehicle in the left lane signalling to make a turn. Light turns green and she starts to drive through the intersection.

    And slams on her brakes, skidding, to avoid the cop car that came flying through the red light without a siren on.

    No siren. Red light. Right next to police HQ.

    There was no way for her to see it coming with the large vehicle next to her. Had it hit her, she would have likely been killed. She couldn't get the car number in time (the cop was speeding, of course) otherwise she would have immediately went to the station and filed a complaint.

    I'd really like to see the side of EPS that makes me not hate them.
    Chmilz... you really seem to have a hate on for cops in Edmonton. Obviously, you've had bad experiences with them. Here's my 2 cents on a few things from above, not that anyone was even asking.

    Trying to clear an intersection with only lights and no siren is called code 3 driving. Often used to get somewhere in a faster manner, without alerting bad guys. Now in the case of what you're mentioning above, one would have to enter that intersection very slowly and cautiously without using a siren (because, just like in your wife's case, some people can't see the car when they start to go).

    While I find it highly unlikely that a police unit would simply blow into an intersection, on a red light, without yielding to avoid a collision, and with only lights on - I can't say it didn't happen. Why? I wasn't there. And neither were you. Not that I'm discrediting what your wife tells you, but in all instances in life, I believe it's hard for anyone to really know what has happened, what the truth is, what are the facts, without being there for themselves to be a witness to it. On the other hand, your wife may be the most honest, credible person you've ever come to know, in which case, she should report the incident regardless of having the car number or not.

    Moving on to speak about the recent shootings involving RCMP officers, it's frustrating, and aggravating to read some of the comments people have made and how they have jumped to conclusions about what happened. The news can only report so much information. But the FACTS will be looked at, and each situation investigated thoroughly and without bias. Only then can any of us really form a valid opinion - for now, there isn't one person aside from the people that were there that can say police were right or wrong. Of course, I have my own thoughts on the incidents - but again, I wasn't there, so I could be completely out to lunch.

  60. #160

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I thought the cops were supposed to be trained to defuse situations before they go sideways. To use their guns as the absolute last resort in a situation. It seems in a lot of these cases it's shoot first and defuse the situation after. Pepper spray can go a long way in stopping a unruly person(s). Blinding a person(s) would give a cop enough time to get back to his vehicle and call backup and enough time to get his taser from the trunk.
    Shooting is a last resort. Always.
    Pepper spray doesn't always work - It can miss the subjects face/eyes, and if the person is in a rage, or high on drugs, there's a good chance that it won't work. And not all cops in Edmonton carry tasers.

  61. #161
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    Pepper spray isn't karate in a can. If someone is armed with a weapon then it is the job of the police to try and diffuse the situation. If every option is exhausted and the subject poses an immediate lethal threat or grievous bodily harm to the safety of ANYBODY the police must end the threat immediately. If a subject were to lunge at an officer with a weapon you can't count on pepper spray. If you take a look at any use of force model it will show you a subject posing lethal resistance can (and will likely) be stopped with deadly force.

    I personally would think it unfair if we expected cops to defend themselves from armed subjects only with pepper spray.

  62. #162

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    MSC - it happened the way I told it. The cop fudged up and nearly killed someone. My wife is lucky, there are a few instances on this thread alone about someone being killed by misbehaving cops. And why would they bother? It's not like cops are held to account for any of their actions.

    We have all these ASIRT teams and other internal investigations with no teeth, all to support the practice of "shoot first, ask questions later", or whatever means of brutality the police dish out.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSC View Post
    And not all cops in Edmonton carry tasers.
    And people complain if police have to use tasers, too.


    It sucks that situations get violent, but why on Earth everyone blames the cops for them is beyond me.

    After all, there are lots of incidents where people are violent with each other WITHOUT police involvement. Why would anyone think that people wouldn't get violent with police as well? And when police encounter someone who is violent and using a weapon, how are they supposed to respond? I expect them to overpower the suspect - and sometimes a gun is needed to do that.

  64. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I thought the cops were supposed to be trained to defuse situations before they go sideways. To use their guns as the absolute last resort in a situation. It seems in a lot of these cases it's shoot first and defuse the situation after. Pepper spray can go a long way in stopping a unruly person(s). Blinding a person(s) would give a cop enough time to get back to his vehicle and call backup and enough time to get his taser from the trunk.
    Yes I'm sure you've been trained in use of force and have been in many similar situations and made the right call everytime You weren't there, you have no valid opinion. Wait for the trained ASIRT investigators to come out with their ruling before you jump to conclusions.
    Sure I have a valid opinion. No, I don't always make the right decisions, in fact, I wish I had a buck for every wrong one I've made. On the other hand, my wrong decisions don't cost people there lives as I don't carry a gun. As for me not being there, neither were you so your opinion is just p*ssing in the wind.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  65. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bpeters View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    I can't think of a more inconsequential crime to be concerned about.
    Motorcycle noise bylaw?
    Except everyone in Edmonton* wanted that bylaw.

    *With the exception of a pathetically small minority of motorcycle owners with noise-enhancing exhaust systems in place specifically to make noise with no benefit
    "A pathetically small [WHINY] minority of motorcycle haters wanted that bylaw."

    We've been down this path before.... I have to live with the bylaw, doesn't mean I have to like it. Whatev.
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  66. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MSC View Post
    And not all cops in Edmonton carry tasers.
    And people complain if police have to use tasers, too.


    It sucks that situations get violent, but why on Earth everyone blames the cops for them is beyond me.

    After all, there are lots of incidents where people are violent with each other WITHOUT police involvement. Why would anyone think that people wouldn't get violent with police as well? And when police encounter someone who is violent and using a weapon, how are they supposed to respond? I expect them to overpower the suspect - and sometimes a gun is needed to do that.
    The whole problem is when the cops do use their tasers in the wrong manner there is no deterrent when they do. Take the guy in Edmonton who was tasered 6 times as he was passed out in the back on a car. The cop that did that is still a fully fledged cop strutting around in Edmonton. Take the 4 RCMP who tasered Robert Dziekanski after 18 seconds of their first encounter with him (so much for the 4 of them trying to defuse that situation). He was armed with a stapler. All 4 of those cops covered for each other in the enquiry. If it had not been for the tape recording (which they did not no was being made) they would have basically got off scott free for that fiasco. We all know there are bad apples on the force. It would do the force and the public well if they were weeded out. If they are not it undermines the whole organization.
    Last edited by Gemini; 07-08-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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  67. #167
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    There are bad cops - vicious cops - mean cops.

    You may say, only a few, and within the confines of how you would describe a bad cop I would agree.

    But, my definition of bad cop includes those who do nothing about the cops who are bad within your definition of the term.

    Which says to me, because nothing is ever done about bad, vicious, mean cops - that we have a whole force of bad cops.

    Prosecutorial indifference to cops who break the law - and that sham called police disclipline - lead me to suggest, if people point fingers and accuse cops of all being bad - it's the cops' own fault.

    When just one of them actually has to face a judge and jail time - maybe then I'll relent.
    ... gobsmacked

  68. #168

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    8/10

    I think thats the ratio.

    2 good hearted, for the people, wanting to help society.

    8 power tripping racist ego maniacs trying to play judge jury and executioner
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  69. #169

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    ^I was out with a friend and his cop buddy showed up. He was wearing leathers so I asked him what kind of bike he had. One of the fastest kind, of course. I asked him how fast (to see if he was a dirtbag), and sure enough, he tells me he gets it past 200 on the road all the time. I then asked him when that became legal, and if it was just for off duty cops or normal people too - he didn't answer.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  70. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    MSC - it happened the way I told it. The cop fudged up and nearly killed someone. My wife is lucky, there are a few instances on this thread alone about someone being killed by misbehaving cops. And why would they bother? It's not like cops are held to account for any of their actions.

    We have all these ASIRT teams and other internal investigations with no teeth, all to support the practice of "shoot first, ask questions later", or whatever means of brutality the police dish out.
    Au contraire. Any complaint against a member of EPS, whether from inside the service or outside, is taken very seriously. Internal Affairs within EPS remains incredibly impartial to the 'blue line' culture seen by the public. Often times, any complaint made against a member can mean relocation, reduction in pay or OT hours, or simply defamation of character in the news until that investigation is completed. (which could take years!)

    Some examples would be the officer who was alleged to have exposed himself to a female inside her suite after dropping her off at home.

    Or the instance where a woman was arrested on warrants, then claimed she had been sexually assaulted and that police did nothing to investigate her complaint.

    On the flip side, officers have been found guilty of deceit, perjury, or fraud within the service itself. IA acts like a judge, they don't take sides.

    On a completely different topic, I'd like to add as well, that EPS chooses to disclose instances where officers are being investigated/charged/complained about to the media. All with the good intention to maintain public confidence that the service will punish bad behaviour. And what you generally see in return, is actually more public mistrust. There are a few other services in this country that come to mind that choose NOT to disclose this information - and yet, they appear to be more respected by their populace than Edmonton's. (Maybe because the Sun can't post big bold headlines saying "COP STEALS MONEY" in these other cities as they weren't made aware).

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I thought the cops were supposed to be trained to defuse situations before they go sideways. To use their guns as the absolute last resort in a situation. It seems in a lot of these cases it's shoot first and defuse the situation after. Pepper spray can go a long way in stopping a unruly person(s). Blinding a person(s) would give a cop enough time to get back to his vehicle and call backup and enough time to get his taser from the trunk.
    Yes I'm sure you've been trained in use of force and have been in many similar situations and made the right call everytime You weren't there, you have no valid opinion. Wait for the trained ASIRT investigators to come out with their ruling before you jump to conclusions.
    Sure I have a valid opinion. No, I don't always make the right decisions, in fact, I wish I had a buck for every wrong one I've made. On the other hand, my wrong decisions don't cost people there lives as I don't carry a gun. As for me not being there, neither were you so your opinion is just p*ssing in the wind.
    I'm not the one jumping to conclusions saying what the cops should have done. I am reserving judgement until the ASIRT experts are finished their investigation. You however seem to think you know what the cops should have done even though you weren't there. You're jumping to conclusions and speculating and you have no reason to be. You have an opinion but not a valid one as you have no training and you weren't there.
    Last edited by Mla; 08-08-2013 at 01:09 AM.

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    ^I was out with a friend and his cop buddy showed up. He was wearing leathers so I asked him what kind of bike he had. One of the fastest kind, of course. I asked him how fast (to see if he was a dirtbag), and sure enough, he tells me he gets it past 200 on the road all the time. I then asked him when that became legal, and if it was just for off duty cops or normal people too - he didn't answer.
    It never became legal he just hasn't been pulled over yet.

  73. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    ^I was out with a friend and his cop buddy showed up. He was wearing leathers so I asked him what kind of bike he had. One of the fastest kind, of course. I asked him how fast (to see if he was a dirtbag), and sure enough, he tells me he gets it past 200 on the road all the time. I then asked him when that became legal, and if it was just for off duty cops or normal people too - he didn't answer.
    It never became legal he just hasn't been pulled over yet.
    Someone is missing the point and the nuance. The cop should know better than to do 200 on his motor cycle. It's not that he hasn't been caught, it's he should not be doing it in the first place. Being a cop you would think he would hold himself to a better standard.
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  74. #174
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    Would seem to me that cop would know better, but he'd also know that if Sgt. Joe Blow pulled him over it would likely be, "Oh, didn't realise it was you. Man, that bike's faster than you said. Have a good un', eh? See you Sunday at the BBQ. And be careful out here, there's some real jackasses about today."

    Is that too far off?
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  75. #175

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    ^No, that about covers it nicely.
    And sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you blow. (That's a play on words by the way).
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  76. #176
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    Nobody should be speeding. Especially the cop.

  77. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^No, that about covers it nicely.
    And sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you blow. (That's a play on words by the way).
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest he would give a ticket to his own mother. On many occasions he has been dragged across the carpet in his superiors office including the Chief's because he will not drop charges against other officers. For instance he caught a off duty Sherwood Park RCMP speeding in Edmonton at double the limit and he blew 3 times over the legal limit. The chief (I cannot remember which one it was because in was a several years ago) asked him to drop the charges because the RCMP had one of the EPS officers on similar charges. My friend refused on principal and it eventually went to trial with a conviction. He has stood his ground enough times that he is not even asked to reconsider his decisions anymore.
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  78. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^No, that about covers it nicely.
    And sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you blow. (That's a play on words by the way).
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest he would give a ticket to his own mother. On many occasions he has been dragged across the carpet in his superiors office including the Chief's because he will not drop charges against other officers. For instance he caught a off duty Sherwood Park RCMP speeding in Edmonton at double the limit and he blew 3 times over the legal limit. The chief (I cannot remember which one it was because in was a several years ago) asked him to drop the charges because the RCMP had one of the EPS officers on similar charges. My friend refused on principal and it eventually went to trial with a conviction. He has stood his ground enough times that he is not even asked to reconsider his decisions anymore.
    Now this is something that would have certainly made news headlines at some point, no? An EPS officer testifying against an RCMP officer at an Impaired trial would be something the media would have written dozens of articles about.

  79. #179

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    Could be. It happened some years ago ~15-20

    The RCMP in Sherwood Park have had a long history of problems
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  80. #180

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^No, that about covers it nicely.
    And sometimes it's not who you know, it's who you blow. (That's a play on words by the way).
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest he would give a ticket to his own mother. On many occasions he has been dragged across the carpet in his superiors office including the Chief's because he will not drop charges against other officers. For instance he caught a off duty Sherwood Park RCMP speeding in Edmonton at double the limit and he blew 3 times over the legal limit. The chief (I cannot remember which one it was because in was a several years ago) asked him to drop the charges because the RCMP had one of the EPS officers on similar charges. My friend refused on principal and it eventually went to trial with a conviction. He has stood his ground enough times that he is not even asked to reconsider his decisions anymore.
    I really wish I could meet these good cops instead of the jerks. Maybe the good ones are busy doing real police work while the jerks like to power trip in the face of normal law abiding people.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

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  82. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    The internal investigations will come up inconclusive and nothing will happen. She'll follow through with a massive lawsuit, which she would win but of course the government will settle out of court using taxpayer money with a non-disclosure attached to ensure nobody ever learns the truth.

    We're bribed with our own money to hide the crimes committed against us by those we pay to protect us.

    Add: I'm assuming a lot of things here of course... she could be a crazy liar and totally guilty.
    Last edited by Chmilz; 10-08-2013 at 05:00 PM.
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  83. #183

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    I should imagine the sheriff involved will get a promotion in the next couple of years for doing well under pressure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I should imagine the sheriff involved will get a promotion in the next couple of years for doing well under pressure.
    Oh yes because you know exactly what happened in this incident. Let's all jump to conclusions and speculate about what probably happened. You know the Sheriff's version of events haven't been released yet. Last I checked we lived in a country where one is innocent until proven guilty... or does that not apply to law enforcement. Your hypocrisy sickens me.

  85. #185
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    ^ I agree. The stupidity on this board as of late astounds me.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  86. #186

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    I really wish I could meet these good cops instead of the jerks. Maybe the good ones are busy doing real police work while the jerks like to power trip in the face of normal law abiding people.
    One of the problems is that police have to deal with a lot of low life people everyday in often their worst moments. It tends to slant their view of people overall. SDort of like doctors who generally meet only sick people everyday.

    I have met and know several outstanding police officers who do the City proud. They tell me that many of the younger police are loose cannons who have been watching too many TV shows.

    I have run into a few of these authoritarian bozo's whose "people skills" and serving the public interest are found wanting.
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  87. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I should imagine the sheriff involved will get a promotion in the next couple of years for doing well under pressure.
    Oh yes because you know exactly what happened in this incident. Let's all jump to conclusions and speculate about what probably happened. You know the Sheriff's version of events haven't been released yet. Last I checked we lived in a country where one is innocent until proven guilty... or does that not apply to law enforcement. Your hypocrisy sickens me.
    Oh, and you also know what happened as your were there?. Your hypocrisy amazes me. Don't you think the woman sitting in the car is innocent until proven guilty. If an officer inflicts those kinds of injuries on a routine stop something is wrong with the system. And unless the women in question has some kind of martial arts training she would have been at a disadvantage up against a male. Then again, I was not there, neither where you.
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  88. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ I agree. The stupidity on this board as of late astounds me.
    Ah, and you have voted yourself the only voice of reason. Hit the ignore button buddy, that's what it's there for.
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  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I should imagine the sheriff involved will get a promotion in the next couple of years for doing well under pressure.
    Oh yes because you know exactly what happened in this incident. Let's all jump to conclusions and speculate about what probably happened. You know the Sheriff's version of events haven't been released yet. Last I checked we lived in a country where one is innocent until proven guilty... or does that not apply to law enforcement. Your hypocrisy sickens me.
    Oh, and you also know what happened as your were there?. Your hypocrisy amazes me. Don't you think the woman sitting in the car is innocent until proven guilty. If an officer inflicts those kinds of injuries on a routine stop something is wrong with the system. And unless the women in question has some kind of martial arts training she would have been at a disadvantage up against a male. Then again, I was not there, neither where you.
    Again Gemini I'm not the one speculating and placing blame. You're the one who immediately jumped on this thread and placed blame on the officer. I'm just telling you to cool your jets and wait until the investigation is over before making judgement. If you look back at my last post I have not made any opinions as to what I think happened. I'm just telling you to calm down.

  90. #190

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    ^Ôh well, I guess because it's you telling me to calm down I will. Just a suggestion, get rid of that huge wedgie and try to smile a little. This is on the understanding that the wedgie is just speculation on my part.
    Last edited by Gemini; 15-08-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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    I never judged anybody. You're the one coming here judging everybody else based on half truths and only one side of a story with media slant. You need to relax.

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    Are you like this in real life, Mla?

    Eve

  93. #193

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    ^^You need to make your opinions on the thread's topic not on the people who actually have an opinion. You have said several times you have no opinion on the topic as you are waiting for the investigation to take place. Yet you feel you have to chastise the people who actually do have an opinion. We get it, you like to give the cops the benefit of the doubt. Some people don't, deal with it.

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    Yes Eve, this is the way I am in real life. I am even headed and I wait to hear all sides of a story before jumping to conclusions. I don't make opinions on topics I don't know about. I'm sorry if my unbiased approach offends you. Gemini, I'm not giving the Sheriff the benefit of the doubt I am merely waiting for his version of events to come out before attacking him. I suppose I wouldn't make a good member of any lynch mob because I prefer to see both sides of the coin.

    It's not that I don't have an opinion, it's just that I prefer to reserve judgement instead of playing "Armchair quarterback." It is only fair to hear the Sheriff's side of the story before publicly convicting him because that is the Canadian way. If this was not common practice in Canada then our judicial system would be putting a lot of people in prison before hearing them out. But, it is common practice in Canada for any accused person to defend his or herself. So, shouldn't we wait for a full investigation is done by the professionals? Or should be blame him for something without giving him his legal right to defend his position?
    Last edited by Mla; 16-08-2013 at 07:22 AM.

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    Not here you don't. Your emphasis is strictly on "cops are always right" and "how can we punish people for stepping out of line". You may think it's even handed, but it really isn't.

    Eve

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    Quote Originally Posted by EveB View Post
    Not here you don't. Your emphasis is strictly on "cops are always right" and "how can we punish people for stepping out of line". You may think it's even handed, but it really isn't.

    Eve
    Where did I say that? I have never said cops are always right. You're putting words in my mouth, I have never said that.

  97. #197

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    Quote Originally Posted by McBoo View Post
    I think skepticism, indeed cynacism of EPS is not so much a reflection of all cops are bad, rather ...

    Not a one of the really, really bad cops on this force ever seems to have to pay the price.

    One thug dressed in blue after another gets away with multiple taserings, beatings, intimidation, use of private records etc. and EPS does nothing. Well, not quite - they cover up.

    So, should cynacism be surprising? Easiest thing in the world to cure - if an organization actually wants to.
    We are brought up to respect and trust all kinds of people, professional people included. These professionals include teachers, doctors, men/women of the cloth, cops and numerous other 'people of authority'. Now that we know better and life has shown us that these 'professional's' are not so professional at times I think a healthy dose of cynicism, skepticism is warranted. If we look at the world through rose colored glasses all we become is short sighted.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  98. #198
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Edmonton Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest he would give a ticket to his own mother. On many occasions he has been dragged across the carpet in his superiors office including the Chief's because he will not drop charges against other officers. For instance he caught a off duty Sherwood Park RCMP speeding in Edmonton at double the limit and he blew 3 times over the legal limit. The chief (I cannot remember which one it was because in was a several years ago) asked him to drop the charges because the RCMP had one of the EPS officers on similar charges. My friend refused on principal and it eventually went to trial with a conviction. He has stood his ground enough times that he is not even asked to reconsider his decisions anymore.
    I call ******** on this one...no Chief of Police is going to call one of the officers into his office and ask him to drop the charges...someone is blowing smoke up your ***

  99. #199

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    ^ If your friend truly encountered this situation, which Im also going to suggest was highly misinterperted on your part, he would have also followed up by way of laying a criminal complaint/ charges against the same chief and supervisors for extortion under the criminal code.

    There are simply way to many layers of accountability to suggest that your scenario did occur or remotely could occur. Ie City council, police commission, Law Enforcement Review Board, and on and on and on........

  100. #200

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    [QUOTE=RJ;539334]
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    One police officer that I know who is a Decon at our church is the rare type that is so honest

    SNIP

    I call ******** on this one...no Chief of Police is going to call one of the officers into his office and ask him to drop the charges...someone is blowing smoke up your ***
    Yeah, one of the Deacons who is now a Chruch Elder with more than 25 years with EPS is just making stuff up. Right...

    EPS is no different than other police forces with its share of coverups and internal problems. The amount of off duty DUI's and issues with gambling, drugs, sexual harrassment and domestic violence is partly due to the stress of being a cop. You just have to look at problems in other cities like Vancouver, Calgary, Winnipeg, Toronto or Montreal. Or are you trying to suggest that EPS is somehow immune to such problems?
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

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