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Thread: Single Sex classrooms

  1. #1

    Default Single Sex classrooms

    Anybody here have any experience sending their kids to a single gender classroom? Where and what do you think?

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    our eldest attended a boys only school from grade 4 through 12 and neither he or we would change that. our youngest chose a different route for his education and we're equally proud of both of them. as for your question, i'm not sure if the same "advantages" accrue from single gender classrooms that accrue from single gender schools but regardless those "advantages" are not always for everyone. you know your child and those things that he/she needs better than anyone else. making sure those things are available (and that they are provided, which is not always the same thing) is more important than classroom gender segregation by itself. it is those "other things" often provided by segregated schools - but also often available in non-segregated schools - that is what's really important (i.e. discipline for some, sports for some, languages for some, arts for some, sciences for some, international exposure for some etc.) and those things (and the teachers providing them) are the things you should be concentrating on. and depending on the age of your child, don't discount the value of "walking to school" and making friends in school with your neighbors (as opposed to making friends with those you can't spend time with outside of school without having to be driven to and from).
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  3. #3

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    I went to co-ed, but I had a number of friends who went to single sex (both male and female). One thing I heard from them, is that it was like "electricity" when they had a dance or similar between the two sexes. Single sex school kids can actually be more promiscuous, because whereas at a co-ed school the girls can see how dorky most of the boys are most of the time, at single sex, they form ideal opinions and never learn.

    In terms of learning, no idea if there's a difference, guess it depends on the kid.

  4. #4

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    Interesting Ken. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that there are pedagogical implications of a single gender classroom? I don't know that a single gender classroom is established just for the sake of excluding boys/girls.

    As for "walking to school" (strange you felt you had to put quotes around it, although it makes sense for our current predicament) my kids will know no other way (except bike, the occasional piggy back, maybe the bus when they hit jr. high...)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Interesting Ken. I assume, perhaps incorrectly, that there are pedagogical implications of a single gender classroom? I don't know that a single gender classroom is established just for the sake of excluding boys/girls.

    As for "walking to school" (strange you felt you had to put quotes around it, although it makes sense for our current predicament) my kids will know no other way (except bike, the occasional piggy back, maybe the bus when they hit jr. high...)
    i have no idea if "pedagogical implications" (???) were any part of the initial inquiry's background but they certainly never entered into the discussion from my perspective in responding... it was that post that inquired specifically as to experience with "single gender classrooms" - not "single gender schools" - that i was responding to (and noted that i had no experience with).

    in either case you might fit any pedagogical implications you might have under the "other things" i noted as possibly important to you and your child. in any case however, it's completely up to you to determine that importance or relevance to you. i have no experience in that regard other than in segregated "gym classes" too many years ago to count. anyone know if they even still have "gym classes?
    Last edited by kcantor; 04-09-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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  6. #6

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    Single-sex classrooms are a conceit by prudes.

    In real life males and females have to coexist whether or not they rut. Better to start early.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Single-sex classrooms are a conceit by prudes.

    In real life males and females have to coexist whether or not they rut. Better to start early.
    how to derail a thread?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Single-sex classrooms are a conceit by prudes.

    In real life males and females have to coexist whether or not they rut. Better to start early.
    And that post right there indicates you know nothing about the subject at hand. If you have nothing constructive to add to the conversation, please avoid posting.

  9. #9

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    I'm not really looking for personal opinions about the efficacy of single sex education. I'm looking for those who have first-hand experience with the offerings in Edmonton preferably but not exclusively.

  10. #10

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    I did three years of high school at an all girls school in the U.K. The all boys school was right next door. It was an O.K. experience. Can't say I missed the boys not being in class, just got used to it. I don't think you get a better education being in same sex classes. If the teacher has good control of the class and you want to learn you will learn no matter who is in the class. I would not like to see separate male/female classes be the norm. There are so many jobs now that are no longer male/female orientated. Trades like plumbing, electrical, engineering, firefighters etc: now have women working in them. Same as nursing, midwifery, child care etc: now have men qualified to do the job. We don't need separate schools to teach people these trades or professions. Waste of time and resources if that happened. I don't know what is gained by having all boys/girls classes.
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    I'm not really looking for personal opinions about the efficacy of single sex education. I'm looking for those who have first-hand experience with the offerings in Edmonton preferably but not exclusively.
    Ok

    My daughter, now coming on the backside of her University Education, started in a normal EPS school setting, due to issues with the school and concerns she wasn't getting the challenged enough we switched her to the all girls "Nellie McLung" program at Oliver School going into Grade 4.

    At that time an excellent program that with a focus on girls academic prowness, uniforms and a great atmosphere. She did extremely well and we were very pleased up to the last year or so of her being there.

    Our problems related not to the program but issues with administration and EPSB so it is not fair to beat up the program which was very good.

    She transitioned to high school with zero issues and through to now done very well.

    For girls I highly recommend the "single sex" class environment. It has nothing to do with the "sexual tensions" (lol) of regular classes but as we discovered girls do extremely well in a learning environment tailored to their learning needs and without the "goofy" distraction of young boys. No not dating issues etc. boys are just "goofy" in that age range as a generality.

    Our son, in the low elementary grades now, we have chosen to keep in a regular type mixed class as all factors considered for his needs it is the best choice and he is doing well.

    So it does very much depend on the individual child, their needs and the actual school programs involved.

    If you are dealing with an academically advanced girl I would recommend checking out the "all girls programs" available up to high school that are available based on our experience.

    At least that is how it worked for us...in each case before making the choices we did extensive research on the pros and cons, how it affected individual child's needs and exactly what programs were available.

    It is not easy...but for your children it is well worth the effort and always remember "no 2 kids are the same"

    Best advice I can put forward

  12. #12

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    I've had friends that went to private schools that were gender specific.

    The girls seem to be much more promiscuous and the guys for the most part had much less respect for women. I dislike segregation and think there shoulld be much more neutrality when it comes to sex ed and other social courses.

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    A lot of research shows that gender separation at an early age can be very helpful for boys in elementary school

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    I don't know if such a setup exists here in Edmonton, but I have a nephew out east who goes to a "partially" segregated elementary school. Classrooms in the school are either boys-only or girls-only, but then they do have coed recess, lunches, and other events. The idea being that boys and girls learn differently in class, but they still get to learn socially from each other. My sister really raves at how well it works for my nephew.

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    Edmonton Catholic all-boys academy:

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...533/story.html
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  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by armin View Post
    I've had friends that went to private schools that were gender specific.

    The girls seem to be much more promiscuous and the guys for the most part had much less respect for women. I dislike segregation and think there shoulld be much more neutrality when it comes to sex ed and other social courses.
    Hahhaha this. There was always a running joke in High School to find yourself a Nelley McLung graduate girl. They were the "freaks".
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  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by armin View Post
    I've had friends that went to private schools that were gender specific.

    The girls seem to be much more promiscuous and the guys for the most part had much less respect for women. I dislike segregation and think there shoulld be much more neutrality when it comes to sex ed and other social courses.
    Hahhaha this. There was always a running joke in High School to find yourself a Nelley McLung graduate girl. They were the "freaks".
    http://youtu.be/y0RnFk-nYFg

    yikes, NSFW

  18. #18

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    I kinda wished I had the opportunity to be in a segregated class. I felt a lot of times growing up that the natural competitiveness between boys was suppressed or even vilified. I felt academically neutered for the sake of emotional or slower students, often in math an science classes, and most often female.

    Boys and girls are not the same. Our brains work different. We learn different.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by armin View Post
    I've had friends that went to private schools that were gender specific.

    The girls seem to be much more promiscuous and the guys for the most part had much less respect for women. I dislike segregation and think there shoulld be much more neutrality when it comes to sex ed and other social courses.
    Hahhaha this. There was always a running joke in High School to find yourself a Nelley McLung graduate girl. They were the "freaks".
    I dated a girl who's mother was a very senior level person at that school. She was an evil witch of a woman who treated her own lovely daughters like they were pathetic street trash. She shouldn't have been allowed to talk to children, let alone educate them.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  20. #20

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    ^I had the daughter of one of my teachers (she went to an all girls school), it was a bit creepy as she looked a bit like my teacher, but heck, it might have just been my charm and not the damage done from being at an all girls school I preferred co-ed education, but friends who went to single sex schools like that to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Boys and girls are not the same. Our brains work different. We learn different.
    What's interesting is that a lot of the 'boys and girls are different' beliefs CAUSE the differences. A lot of that research is bad science.

    Big disclaimer: My wife is the one who's read this book: Delusions of Gender and I've only had discussions with her about it.

  22. #22

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    I don't think girls/boys learn differently they just interpret or do things differently with what they learn. They know living things need food water but if you took a kitten into an all girls glass it would have 15 stuffed animals, a baby blanket, more food than it can eat and a fabulous place to sleep. Take the same kitten into a boys class and it will more than likely have food and water and then left to it's own devices. That's just a basic example and I am sure there are more. The information you give kids is the same except it's used in a different way.
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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't think girls/boys learn differently they just interpret or do things differently with what they learn
    Without question there are differences. I remember the first time I took my daughter to ballet at 4 (asked us to let her go try). All the girls sat, in a circle, not moving, for about 30 minutes at the start of the session. There is no way my son at that age could do that, and that's not programming, its just nature.

    Whether that effects how kids should be taught, I'm not so sure, differences between individuals can significantly outweigh gender differences.

  24. #24

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    Like I said in a previous post, if the teacher has control of a class her/his teaching methods are the same for boys and girls. In an uncontrolled setting what kids do and learn can be totally different. If your saying differences between individuals can significantly outweigh gender differences does that mean we should have one on one tuition for millions of individuals. Whats the purpose of this new Boys Academy in Edmonton. What's the difference between a school and an academy?. They are all teaching establishments. Is it just a way to foister another bunch of elitists on the public dime.
    Last edited by Gemini; 06-09-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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  25. #25

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    It has nothing to do with the teacher. It has to do with the students themselves.

    Both my parents, in another country and in another age, went to schools divided by sex until legislation forced integration around 1954 or 1955 -- just in time for their last year or two of high school.

    I have been assured in the strongest possible terms life was a great improvement, for both the girls and the boys, and in fact made the learning more bearable.
    Last edited by AShetsen; 07-09-2012 at 09:41 AM.

  26. #26
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    there is various literature on the subject. personal and one of stories aside, early years segregation has tended to benefit the females academically. but that comes with a huge caveat...

    there is a belief that's supported by research that suggests our typical curriculum in the past had favoured male development over female in terms of the timing of skills, abilities, and subjects (one example is verbal abilities are developed earlier in girls (a generalization) vs spacial abilities are developed earlier in boys...). Therefore, in segregated classrooms, there is a natural opportunity to focus instruction and reflect developing strengths.

    in segregated classrooms there is also an opportunity to reflect the likes and interests. the idea of learning as a social and community practice would suggest that like-minded individuals would be able to form well-meaning communities of learning.

    On the flip side, such focusing of the curriculum or conversation in segregated classrooms could (does?) lead to reinforced stereotypes and gender roles. also, curriculums have been undergoing wholesale reinvention across disciplines. it may even be suggested that present curricula had overcame male-centric focus. this is reflected in ever increseing and well documented academic success of females. perhaps, soon, there will be studies suggesting that males would benefit from segregated classes more than females (which is a complete turn around from about 20 years ago).

    At the end of the day, a capable, thoughtful group of teachers supported by administrators, parents, and governments (through training, resources, and research support) should be able to create well functioning learning communities. If that happens (or continues to happen), the outcome would be just as Ken had described–two successful examples of learning under two different circumstance. Although, it very possible that the family life and support–being equal in the case of Ken's children–is a much stronger force in the lives of children then their school.

    So, I would not jump to statements like "segregation is bad" or "segregation is good". There is no such thing. There is, however, good parenting, good teachers, and good for education governments.

  27. #27

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    Again, all the verbiage about good parents, good educators, good governments, good intentions leaves out the people it is all about in the end: the schoolchildren in the years of their growth.

    As adults, they will have to exist in a world in which there are men and women: not all of whom are their friends, their enemies, their lovers, or their buying or bought sexual partners.

    The earlier the sexes start coexisting, the better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Again, all the verbiage about good parents, good educators, good governments, good intentions leaves out the people it is all about in the end: the schoolchildren in the years of their growth.

    As adults, they will have to exist in a world in which there are men and women: not all of whom are their friends, their enemies, their lovers, or their buying or bought sexual partners.

    The earlier the sexes start coexisting, the better.
    yes, the earlier all sexes - and there are more than two - start coexisitng - at an absolute minumim - the better.

    but that doesn't necessarily mean everything in society is or should be unisex or that certain activities and/or periods of time shouldn't sometimes - even if not for everyone all of the time - be segregated.
    we take segregation for granted when it comes to washrooms and showers even when they are built in otherwise fully integrated locations. we don't question seperation in hospital settings or many others.


    being segregated in these instances simply means seperating for the puposes of certain activities, it doesn't make any of the parties less equal, and it certainly shouldn't extend to their being seperated 24/7. if anything, those seperate schools or classes should include reciprocal access and exposure that in turn should contribute to more than just coexistence at the end of the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Again, all the verbiage about good parents, good educators, good governments, good intentions leaves out the people it is all about in the end: the schoolchildren in the years of their growth.

    As adults, they will have to exist in a world in which there are men and women: not all of whom are their friends, their enemies, their lovers, or their buying or bought sexual partners.

    The earlier the sexes start coexisting, the better.
    School is only a part of the day, week and year. Kids have brothers, sisters, cousins, camps, and neighbourhood playgrounds. Segregated classrooms do not mean segregated lives.

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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Again, all the verbiage about good parents, good educators, good governments, good intentions leaves out the people it is all about in the end: the schoolchildren in the years of their growth.

    As adults, they will have to exist in a world in which there are men and women: not all of whom are their friends, their enemies, their lovers, or their buying or bought sexual partners.

    The earlier the sexes start coexisting, the better.
    School is only a part of the day, week and year. Kids have brothers, sisters, cousins, camps, and neighbourhood playgrounds. Segregated classrooms do not mean segregated lives.
    also, segregated classrooms don't meen *all* classrooms. could be some of them but not others. segregated schools don't mean no co-ed activities.

    Interesting that out of all that I wrote, AShetsen only got the "verbiage"... perhaps it was a little to technical for some... perhaps not.

  31. #31

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    ^No, not to technical just long winded. We want punchline opinions not your thesis. The more you write the less interesting it is.
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  32. #32

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    After-school play and all other activities are the responsibility of parents, who may well see to it that their children will get scarcely any supervised interaction with the other sex at all -- intentionally or unintentionally.

    School is a necessary societal corrective to parental tyranny. It is a recognition that society has legitimate interest in ensuring how its future members grow up, unhindered by parental neuroses.

    This is very reason all home schooling is fundamentally evil and unless a mere supplement to real schooling must be banned. And it is one more reason schooling must be co-educational, always.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^No, not to technical just long winded. We want punchline opinions not your thesis. The more you write the less interesting it is.
    Ah, Gemini, I always thought you were cartoons and headlines kinda person. Will be more considerate next time.

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