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Thread: Winnipeg Bus Rapid Transit System

  1. #1
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    Default Winnipeg Bus Rapid Transit System

    I've been reading news about the Winnipeg Bus Rapid Transit system, and it looks like their first line is close to opening.

    I know this is an LRT thread, but I think that Bus Rapid Transit lines are still a possibility in many cities, including Edmonton.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  2. #2

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    It opened last april, it is ok, I have used it a number of times and depending on how bad traffic is it saves at most 10-15 minutes, but average traffic only saves probably around 5ish minutes. It is absolutely over built for a bus system (some stations are larger than our LRT stations!) but I think the intention is to upgrade it to an LRT system one day. It only runs on a separate right of way for a portion of the trip. There is no bike path that follows the line.

  3. #3

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    ^BRTs that don't have full right of way shouldn't be called BRT.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  4. #4

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    Lrt that don't have full right of way shouldn't be called lrt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Lrt that don't have full right of way shouldn't be called lrt.
    Heere we go again...

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Here we go again...
    I ignored Medwards a long time ago... one should look back over the last month at how many times I reply to him... maybe once or twice.

    BRT that is stuck in mixed traffic is not BRT and calling it such does a disservice to the system which, when correctly implemented, is a fantastic service.

    LRT in the other hand stands for Light Rail Transit. Light Rail is a broad category that spans street cars, elevated systems, at grade systems and underground systems on ROW and in mixed traffic... So I don't know what Matt is getting at other or what he is adding to the conversation.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 24-12-2012 at 01:11 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  7. #7

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    the opportunities and dangers of incomplete bus rapid transit
    http://www.humantransit.org/bus-rapid-transit/

    One of Bus Rapid Transit's great virtues is that unlike rail, you don't have to build a complete, continuous piece of infrastructure if you really only need segments of one.

    Here in Portland, for example, the Barbur corridor -- now being studied for BRT or rail -- features a series of congested chokepoints with generally free-running traffic in between them. Here, a BRT facility that got transit through the chokepoints reliably probably wouldn't need an exclusive lane in the free-flowing segments, because traffic in those segments would continue to be metered by the chokepoints and thus remain uncongested.

    Unfortunately, Bus Rapid Transit can also be implemented in exactly the opposite way. Severely congested chokepoints are generally expensive places to design transit priority for, especially if you're unwilling to simply take a lane for transit. So we often see BRT projects that are missing where they are most needed. The Boston Silver Line 4-5, like the Los Angeles Silver Line, can get stuck in traffic downtown. New York's supposed BRT is so compromised that many refused to call it BRT anymore. Even the world-class Auckland North Shore Busway disappears as it approaches the Harbour Bridge.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    BRT that is stuck in mixed traffic is not BRT
    Wrong

    Bus rapid transit can be as simple as a sign in a bus window saying "EXPRESS" and systems can be designed with much more elaborate buses, dedicated routes and stations. There are no absolutes.

    http://www.vta.org/projects/tsp/pdf/...guidelines.pdf
    http://www.nbrti.org/docs/pdf/High%2...9%20Update.pdf
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Here we go again...
    I ignored Medwards a long time ago... one should look back over the last month at how many times I reply to him... maybe once or twice.

    BRT that is stuck in mixed traffic is not BRT and calling it such does a disservice to the system which, when correctly implemented, is a fantastic service.

    LRT in the other hand stands for Light Rail Transit with. Light Rail is a broad category that spans street cars, elevated systems, at grade systems and underground systems on ROW and in mixed traffic... So I don't know what Matt is getting at other or what he is adding to the conversation.
    You haven't ignored me long time ago, you just selective respond to the posts that you want to. One should look at the many times you've responded to me in the last month or two. The only time you'll respond is when you think you have the upper hand. You choose to ignore the posts that blow your logic out of the water, sheepishly.

    LRT that is stuck in mixed traffic is not LRT, and calling it such does a disservice to the system which, when correctly implemented, is a fantastic service

    LRT in Edmonton stands for LIGHT RAPID TRANSIT and is a form of public transport using a steel tracked fixed guideway that operates primarily along an exclusive right of way and has vehicles capable of operating as a single unit or as multiple units coupled together.

    The ignorant poster does a disservice to us all by grouping all rail transit into one broad group. Street cars are not LRT, trams are not LRT, and trolleys are not LRT.

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    Actually it stands for Light Rail Transit.
    $2.00 $2.25 $2.50 $2.75 $2.85 $3.00 $3.20 $3.25

  11. #11

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    Actually, spend some time in our public library. Head to the reference section. When lrt was designed and built in edmonton, lrt stood for light Rapid transit.

    Source: edmonton transit documents easily found in the edmonton public library reference section.

    Secondary source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_Rapid_Transit

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    BRT that is stuck in mixed traffic is not BRT

    http://www.vta.org/projects/tsp/pdf/...guidelines.pdf
    [/url]
    Um... you know this system includes HOV, bus only lanes and traffic controlled lanes right... It's more than just RAPID on the side of a bus.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I think, for a city like Winnipeg (having lower population over a wide area), something like the Winnipeg Bus Rapid Transit is a good start. Like our LRT, perhaps it's best to develop the lines closer to the downtown to give it better freeflow.

    I still think that something like bus rapid transit could complement the LRT routes in Edmonton, and could be used as a substitute for future LRT, without excessive impacts on neighbourhoods. Could you imagine a BRT connection that connects downtown and Strathcona, and continues south and north?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  15. #15

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    Premium bus service is part of the west lrt plan.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    Actually a BRT system could pave the way for future LRT lines. For example I think it could be a wise move to have a BRT line from South Campus LRT station with a termination stop at W.E.M. or how about a BRT line from Meadows transit center to Southgate transit centre with a stop at Millgate transit centre.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  17. #17

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    There will be premium bus service from wem to south campus.. If there isn't already
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    The thing I find about this premium bus service is that it seems to be on the list of good intentions for Edmonton Transit. I'm aware of the plans for premium bus service, and it would be great for WEM/Callingwood and other West Edmonton neighbourhoods from South Campus station. But has there been much in the way of action?
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  19. #19

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    ^ They built a dedicated bus only overpass that gets buses from South Campus direct to fox drive.

    That is a pretty big step in the right direction.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  20. #20

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    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    ^That is a good step forward but I wish they could find a few key areas have heavy traffic and traffic jams and create independant bus lanes that could get the busses past the traffic jams.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  22. #22

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    I would love to see that happen! We are moving towards that I believe but not yet.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  23. #23

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    We have a long way to go... Examples of BRT from around the world: Los Angeles

    NOHO Orange Line Station with the 15 story, 191 unit NOHO Tower in the background







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    The 99-B line down Broadway in Vancouver is another successful example of BRT.

    "The 99 B-Line is a bus rapid transit line in Metro Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. It travels along Broadway, a major east-west thoroughfare, and connects the University of British Columbia (UBC) to Commercial–Broadway Station on the SkyTrain system. It is operated by Coast Mountain Bus Company and funded by TransLink. It is the first and the most popular of the B-Line routes in the regional system. The other B-Lines that followed are based on the 99 B-Line in terms of the use of articulated buses (which can carry 120 passengers) and frequent arrivals for buses. The waiting time for a bus during peak hours on a weekday is 1.5–3 minutes. Most of the buses on this route are built by New Flyer Industries of Winnipeg, Manitoba. On average it takes 42 minutes to complete the entire route, half an hour near the last runs at the end of the night.
    As of 2010, the route was the busiest bus route in Canada and the United States,[2] with a 2011 average weekday ridership of 54,350 passengers.[1] This number is up from approximately 45,000 passengers per day in 2007.[3]" Link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99_B-Line

    Map: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...B-Line.svg.png

    To further increase capacity, the plan is to replace the 99-B with a Millenium Line Skytrain extension beneath Broadway initially as far as Arbutus and eventually to UBC.

    My spouse and I rode the 99-B just last month in both directions on a Saturday afternoon and evening. It was standing room only most of the way.

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    ^ They built a dedicated bus only overpass that gets buses from South Campus direct to fox drive.

    That is a pretty big step in the right direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post

    True but I cannot see why cars are not allowed to use it as well. It is not that traffic would back up on it going onto Fox Drive. The bridge design is one of the ugliest in the city.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  26. #26

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    I thought cars are allowed to use it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I thought cars are allowed to use it?
    They can. The roads on google street view, and there's no signs saying its bus only.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvazquez7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I thought cars are allowed to use it?
    They can. The roads on google street view, and there's no signs saying its bus only.
    Yep. You just have to move left as soon as you get onto Fox Drive, since it becomes a diamond lane shortly after.

  29. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisvazquez7 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    I thought cars are allowed to use it?
    They can. The roads on google street view, and there's no signs saying its bus only.
    That, I did not know. Thanks for the correction.

    Still one of the ugliest underpasses in the city.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perspective View Post
    It opened last april, it is ok, I have used it a number of times and depending on how bad traffic is it saves at most 10-15 minutes, but average traffic only saves probably around 5ish minutes. It is absolutely over built for a bus system (some stations are larger than our LRT stations!) but I think the intention is to upgrade it to an LRT system one day. It only runs on a separate right of way for a portion of the trip. There is no bike path that follows the line.
    It really goes from nowhere to nowhere. It follows a small portion of the CNR main line which runs directly through the city. The stations are very well done. The problem is that it doesn't go very far. When I had a look last week, it really wasn't, IMO very functional apart from 3 km of ROW which gets the buses by themselves with no other traffic. All they have done was assign certain lanes to the buses and the small corridor. LRT makes far more sense in that the ROW possibilities are far greater there than in Edmonton.
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