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Thread: Northlands plans for the future

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  2. #1702

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    City ponders letting Northlands defer loan payments
    The non-profit will ask the city to defer payments until the spring of 2018
    By Nola Keeler, CBC News Posted: Jan 20, 2017 3:36 PM MT Last Updated: Jan 20, 2017 3:39 PM MT


    Northlands borrowed nearly $48 million from the city for major renovations to its Expo Centre.

    City council will consider letting Northlands wait until March 2018 to make the next payments on the $48-million loan it owes the city.

    Northlands borrowed the money to make major renovations to its Expo Centre in 2009.

    It was supposed to make payments of about $2 million twice a year, on March 15 and Sept. 15.

    But on Sept.14, 2016, the city agreed to defer the loan payment due the next day for an additional 90 days.

    Three months later, Northlands still couldn't come up with the money. The city gave the non-profit another 90 days to pay.

    Now council will look at deferring up to four loan payments from Northlands until March 2018.
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...ents-1.3945658
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    Are we surprised?
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

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    ^ I'm not. The way they are set up now only works if the parking lot fills up over 150 times a year. It doesn't matter who is running the buildings, this is why they need to reconfigure.
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    "Mid-sized stadium in Edmonton could be back on the table"

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/02/0...k-on-the-table

    gimme NOW NOW NOW

  6. #1706

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    ^ can we move this to the ice district thread please

  7. #1707

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    except the story (and idea) is about a small stadium on Northlands land
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  8. #1708

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    Definitely a compatible usage, definitely the right location. Just need to win the games bid.
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    City officials endorse Hockey Canada vision for reimagined Northlands
    http://ow.ly/7Pby30aE4Fe

    Edmonton officials have endorsed a Hockey Canada vision for the Northlands Coliseum that would see four ice sheets, an indoor track and a high-performance dryland training centre established to create a hockey magnet in the city.

    In a report released Thursday, city officials estimate it would cost $102 million. But one-third of the cost could be covered by shutting down four aging ice rinks in that part of the city. They’re hoping Hockey Canada can bring partners to the table to make a dent in the rest.

    “I’m encouraged by the report,” Mayor Don Iveson said Thursday. “They can bring real institutional heft to the table, potential sponsors and partnerships.”

    Hockey Canada officials weren’t available for comment. But in a letter to Iveson, they said they’ve already met with both city school boards, hockey associations in the city and Alberta Athletics.

    They believe the facility can serve many residents with four full-sized hockey rinks, classrooms, lecture halls, a theatre, research and technology, medical and training areas. “Edmonton has the potential to be on the leading edge worldwide of sport academy training programs.”

    The city report said Hockey Canada would only need the rinks and facilities from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. on weekdays. That leaves evenings and weekends for community and amateur hockey.
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    Another article on this:
    City suggests Hockey Canada take over Northlands Coliseum, former home of Edmonton Oilers
    http://ow.ly/R7Rw30aE2Kd
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Default Northlands Releases 2016 Financial Statements

    Northlands 2016 Annual Report including audited financial statements are now posted on their website:

    http://www.northlands.com/wp-content...eport_2016.pdf

    The financial statements read like a three-alarm fire with an accompanying cry for help.

    Apart from swinging from a net profit of $2.4 million in 2015 to a net loss of $4.2 million in 2016, the most alarming thing is how rapidly Northlands is burning through its cash pile.

    Cash and equivalents went from $11.9 million at the end of 2015 to $5.8 million at the end of 2016. And that doesn't even include $5 million in short-term investments that were liquidated in 2016.

    Having the City pay the interest on the Expo loan doesn't even begin to address the financial challenges Northlands faces. Not trying to sound alarmist, but based on the balance sheet, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that Northlands could be facing cash flow problems in short order including the ability to pay its employees and suppliers.

    And for anyone who says let Northlands go broke, City taxpayers are ultimately on the hook if Northlands can't pay its bills.

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    Should dissolve Northlands now, let the EEDC make a case I keep whatever they deem profitable and find new uses for the rest of the unused site. This is a mess.

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    Did anyone expect them to make much money once their main revenue generator moved downtown? Of course they're bleeding. That's why they need to pivot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    Should dissolve Northlands now, let the EEDC make a case I keep whatever they deem profitable and find new uses for the rest of the unused site. This is a mess.
    Well, it was inevitable wasn't it?

    I don't see how dissolving it would change anything? Will the City not end up with the dead weight of stranded investments no matter what? The bigger revenue sources have been stripped away so...

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    I read or heard a report somewhere that somebody out of Northlands once said that the Oilers are not the main revenue stream, that they could exist just fine without them. Wish I could find a link to that comment. Anyone remember reading or hearing such a comment, or am I just imagining things?
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    It may not have been the Oilers themselves, but hockey events. Parking alone likely paid a lot of bills.
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    ^ Thanks, I could be wrong but that's what I recall hearing, but that makes sense.

    Now that Coliseum & Stadium ETS station's surfaces are torn up Coliseum ETS in general I hope they have that project ready for K-days.
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    Huh?! What project do you speak of?

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    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I read or heard a report somewhere that somebody out of Northlands once said that the Oilers are not the main revenue stream, that they could exist just fine without them. Wish I could find a link to that comment. Anyone remember reading or hearing such a comment, or am I just imagining things?
    Northlands never made money from the Oilers. At best they broke even.

    What is devastating Northlands financially is the loss of major concerts and other non-hockey events, and the non-compete clause negotiated between the City and the Katz Group for Rogers Place.

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    Thanks for validating what I thought I already knew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I read or heard a report somewhere that somebody out of Northlands once said that the Oilers are not the main revenue stream, that they could exist just fine without them. Wish I could find a link to that comment. Anyone remember reading or hearing such a comment, or am I just imagining things?
    Northlands never made money from the Oilers. At best they broke even.

    What is devastating Northlands financially is the loss of major concerts and other non-hockey events, and the non-compete clause negotiated between the City and the Katz Group for Rogers Place.
    It appears that breaking even in fact makes it the biggest revenue earner if every other part of the business lost money. Hence, again, why the entire site is looking at a total redevelopment. It's not sustainable in its current form.
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    When are the bulldozers and demolition crews showing up?

    It's a crappy thing to say but, I don't think this place is going to make it as it exists now.
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    ^As a major trade show and exhibition space, the Expo Centre is a unique asset in the Edmonton region and should be complementary to the Shaw Conference Centre downtown. These types of facilities (give or take Las Vegas) tend to operate at a loss or at best break even. This is justified by the economic activity they spur for the hospitality sector (hotels, bars, restaurants) and the region as a whole.

    The Expo Centre and the Shaw would be better operated under a single management. That entity could be Northlands with its large volunteer base and major events expertise rather than EDE.

    One thing seems certain. Without its major concerts business, if Northlands is to survive as an ongoing concern, it will have to dramatically shrink its administrative overhead and physical footprint.

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    I wonder if the city is satisfied with giving Katz that non-compete clause? Seeing as how the debt caused by their bankruptcy will literally fall into the hands of us.
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    The non-compete clause was the stupidest part of the arena deal. Cut the legs right out from under Northlands. What did they expect was going to happen? And there's no guarantee that OE|G won't invoke the non-compete clause to kill the Hockey Canada proposal for the Coliseum seeing as it applies to sports or entertainment functions. But it ware important to give in to the threats to move the Oilers to Seattle or Hamilton. Which was a transparent threat to begin with.

    Stupid.

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    If that happens then they may as well just let OEG have it. It would be cheaper than demolition. They would be booking tournaments and anything they could make a buck on in conjunction with Rogers Place.

  27. #1727

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    I read or heard a report somewhere that somebody out of Northlands once said that the Oilers are not the main revenue stream, that they could exist just fine without them. Wish I could find a link to that comment. Anyone remember reading or hearing such a comment, or am I just imagining things?
    Northlands never made money from the Oilers. At best they broke even.

    What is devastating Northlands financially is the loss of major concerts and other non-hockey events, and the non-compete clause negotiated between the City and the Katz Group for Rogers Place.
    Quote Originally Posted by kkozoriz View Post
    The non-compete clause was the stupidest part of the arena deal. Cut the legs right out from under Northlands. What did they expect was going to happen? And there's no guarantee that OE|G won't invoke the non-compete clause to kill the Hockey Canada proposal for the Coliseum seeing as it applies to sports or entertainment functions. But it ware important to give in to the threats to move the Oilers to Seattle or Hamilton. Which was a transparent threat to begin with.

    Stupid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevey_G View Post
    I wonder if the city is satisfied with giving Katz that non-compete clause? Seeing as how the debt caused by their bankruptcy will literally fall into the hands of us.
    Yes, obviously it was and they would have been clearly warned of these consequences. So, the cost would have come to light. The deal is done, the arena built, Northlands' legs cut, so they just need to deal with theses costs now and move on.

    How they deal with it though, after promising to limit the amount of public money expended in order to get the downtown arena deal done - I don't know. Playing it through as an accounting shell game may work.
    Last edited by KC; 22-05-2017 at 07:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    If that happens then they may as well just let OEG have it. It would be cheaper than demolition. They would be booking tournaments and anything they could make a buck on in conjunction with Rogers Place.
    If OEG expressed interest in it I'd say that they have to keep the non-compete clause in effect. If they believed that it was necessary when Northlands was running it then they should abide by that decision. See how quickly they'd change their minds then.

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    Expo could be turned into a high school or similar. I would support an expanded retail - conference and convention space downtown as part of Ice District. Let's put Northlands out of its miserable existence.

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    Thank goodness we managed to get outta that crazy $2M/year sponsorship.
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    Once the Coliseum has been closed and mothballed I wonder how long it will sit derelict before C of E either demolishes it or finds someone to do something with it.
    Personally I think it should be demolished and mixed housing built.
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    Move all the soup kitchens and crackhead shelters to Northlands so ol' Napoleon can expand his Lice District north with no resistance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Thank goodness we managed to get outta that crazy $2M/year sponsorship.
    One of the most offensive parts of the arena deal, no doubt. Curious to know how exactly this move allowed the city to get off the hook for the remaining $17 mil, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Thank goodness we managed to get outta that crazy $2M/year sponsorship.
    Yeah, I saw that as well. I wonder what the reasoning there is? Gesture of goodwill on OEG's part? I mean no insult, but I doubt that. What did they receive in return?

  36. #1736

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    What did they receive in return?
    The complete shuttering of the Coliseum. Can't get a better non-compete than that.
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    what events were even still happening at the Coliseum? All concerts and events have been advertised for Rogers.

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    http://www.northlands.com/event-calendar/
    Davis Cup
    Miranda Lambert, Foreigner and some other concerts
    CFR
    Disney on Ice
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 13-09-2017 at 03:35 PM.
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    Anyone want to bet coe will put a safe injection premises in place of the Coliseum when it gets torn down?
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    ^Strange thing to say.
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    Northland Coliseum should be dismantled and sell lots of stuff to Calgary because Calgary might need one to built new arena lol
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    I should imagine that if Northlands was demolished a lot of people might want a piece of it. Like seats etc for their man caves or cabins. I would not mind one myself as a keep sake.
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    At least the city would have full control over the Northlands buildings rather than have to put up with their bungling.
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    Will the Northlands organization even exist anymore?

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    K-Days and farm shows do seem like pretty thin pickings. EDE might as well run those as well.

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    It does seem thin, but that just means a leaner, smaller Northlands. Shows and especially exhibitions are some of the kind of things that should be run as independently as possible.
    There can only be one.

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    Without the Coliseum, the CFR is a goner after this year. Both Farm Fair and K-Days require extensive use of the Expo Centre which will be operated by EDE.

    Over the past few years, Northlands has lost much of its independence and now has a governance structure not that much different than EDE. Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point of having two organizations operating on what - with the loss of the Coliseum and the race track - will be a much diminished Northlands site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Without the Coliseum, the CFR is a goner after this year. Both Farm Fair and K-Days require extensive use of the Expo Centre which will be operated by EDE.

    Over the past few years, Northlands has lost much of its independence and now has a governance structure not that much different than EDE. Other than nostalgia, I don't see the point of having two organizations operating on what - with the loss of the Coliseum and the race track - will be a much diminished Northlands site.
    I did not have an opportunity to listen to the entire debate but I don't understand why the Coliseum was not also turned over to EDC to operate in conjunction with the Shaw Convention Centre and Expo Hall... even if we "close it", you have to keep the lights on and keep it from freezing. It should at least be available as a potential convention venue and for some it could well be quite a distinguishing offering not available in other competitive markets.

    I don't have all the answers but maybe someone in the actual convention business might? How many conventions of 10,000 or 15,000 delegates would place value on being able to hold a theatre style presentation or awards ceremony for all of their delegates? How many conventions with 10,000 or 15,000 delegates here for 3 - 5 days would it take to justify an economic business case for having EDC keep the building open? I don't know the answer but I'd guess a lot fewer than 2nd tier concerts hosting 2,500 or less.

    As for the CFR, it's real value as more like that of a convention than a sporting event or concert and it should remain part of the schedule for same overall economic impact it has, not just the impact it has for the venue.
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    Good write-up here:

    Paula Simons: End of an era as Northlands fades away
    http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...nds-fades-away
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    As for the CFR, they can move to Rogers Place as originally planned. The gong show board of directors are long gone now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Will the Northlands organization even exist anymore?
    The 6 0'clock news reports that they will maintain a staff of 25-45. Not sure in what areas though
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  53. #1753

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    This was the right move. Time to open up all that land for real development. Just don't expect it to happen for a decade or more. Too many redevelopments on the table as is.
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    I hope that the Coliseum doesn't become a Colossal Slum.
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  55. #1755

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    Safe money is it's torn down in the spring.
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    Amazon HQ2!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^ Too small. Besides Calgary will probably get the bid before us.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Safe money is it's torn down in the spring.
    Based on how things usually work in this town, seems unlikely.

    And it's not only the Coliseum. The race track itself, the exhibition grandstand and the stables will all have to be removed. Total Northlands site remediation costs could easily run into the tens of millions.

  59. #1759

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Based on how things usually work in this town, seems unlikely.

    And it's not only the Coliseum. The race track itself, the exhibition grandstand and the stables will all have to be removed. Total Northlands site remediation costs could easily run into the tens of millions.
    Given that it seems that OEG has plans to monetize the bones of Northlands I'd wager we see some super quick action at the site. The CoE never moves quite as fast as when it does Katz' bidding.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/09/1...old-arena-site

    And that’s where the focus should be now believes Oilers Entertainment Group Vice Chairman and CEO Bob Nicholson.Nicholson believes there is a magnificent opportunity ahead for Edmonton to seize the moment and create an actual campus of sport on what is being referred to as the Northlands campus. The former head of Hockey Canada says OEG very much wants to become a partner in it.
    OEG giving up $17M from a sweetheart deal makes a lot more sense now when you add in them getting their fingers in the pie on top of the shutting down their only competition for large events.
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  60. #1760

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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Safe money is it's torn down in the spring.
    Based on how things usually work in this town, seems unlikely.

    And it's not only the Coliseum. The race track itself, the exhibition grandstand and the stables will all have to be removed. Total Northlands site remediation costs could easily run into the tens of millions.
    I was speaking only of the Coliseum as it closes Dec 31. Spectrum and track doesn't close until the new track open later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by East McCauley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Safe money is it's torn down in the spring.
    Based on how things usually work in this town, seems unlikely.

    And it's not only the Coliseum. The race track itself, the exhibition grandstand and the stables will all have to be removed. Total Northlands site remediation costs could easily run into the tens of millions.
    Last I heard there were about 10 Amazon bids. Atlanta, Toronto, LA among others. We're a needle in a haystack.

    Northlands site remediation's might end up being well over $40 million. Hmm, where have I heard that figure before?
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    Look at Vancouver they do keep 2 arena and they also make money, why can't this city keep both arenas.

    like I said 3 or 4 yrs ago Rexall place is a very good for Rodeo events, and bring in many more concerts to make money for Northlands
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  63. #1763
    I'd rather C2E than work!
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    May 2008
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    Population being one reason

    I'd rather have the Rodeo at the Coliseum then at Rogers place arena.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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