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Thread: Put 'Fight' Data Recorders everywhere

  1. #1

    Default Put 'Fight' Data Recorders everywhere

    I know the hatred we all have of Big Brother using CATVs to monitor everyone's movements like they use in London, etc. (I believe the monitored cameras along Whyte Avenue were removed weren't they?)

    However, I've never understood why our city doesn't use un-monitored cameras to simply and cheaply record events. Only if a crime were reported would the 'tapes' be pulled and reviewed. (This is no different than all the private security cameras in use in retail stores, banks, etc.)

    I've recently heard of several unusually aggressive and 'intimidating' approaches being made by guys trying to obtain money from people walking downtown. One girl (a friend of friend) has been approached several times recently - with one guy suggesting he'd walk with her to her ATM to get him money. Incredible! That's stepping WAY over the line in my world. That same girl had a guy slap her trunk and then accuse her of backing into him - fortunately a lady who witnessed this came up and defended her.

    Note: I prefer the idea of numerous police foot patrols but we all know that that idea's been on the table for decades.

  2. #2
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    Panhandlers are not afraid of cameras. Foot patrols, maybe.

    I still think foot patrols are better than cameras, and I would rather see that money invested there. At least, until wireless access is in place...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  3. #3
    grish
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    panhandlers have nothing to do with that.
    but, i do agree that police presence is better than cameras. they make me uneasy...

  4. #4

    Default Re: Put Video Cameras all over the place

    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    I know the hatred we all have of Big Brother
    Am I the only one then that thinks they do bang-up charitable work?

  5. #5

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    I have no problem with panhandlers, squeegee people, etc. I gave 20-bucks to a guy that "needed to catch a bus" the other week. (Yes, may have got scammed - but what if the guy really was telling the truth??? - I buy a watch and I'm likely handing over a 50%+ profit margin or helping grossly enrich someone along the supply chain.) And I see squeegee people as true entrepreneurs.

    Now cameras - they can help after the fact - while foot patrols create fear of surprise in the minds of criminals and provide an immediate response - they can do so only if they are present. Even then cameras could help obtain just convictions or sometimes just releases.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    I have no problem with panhandlers, squeegee people, etc. I gave 20-bucks to a guy that "needed to catch a bus" the other week. (Yes, may have got scammed - but what if the guy really was telling the truth??? - I buy a watch and I'm likely handing over a 50%+ profit margin or helping grossly enrich (...)
    Let me guess...

    "Sir, I just got a job in Ft McMurray but I need money to catch the Greyhound to get there. I really am not someone who begs but I need to get up there. Anything you can spare is great."

    About late 20's, 6', wears a red or blue ball cap, sometimes a green jacket, sometimes off brown.

    Why?

    He's been walking around for 3 months already. Same as the "help out an old drunk from Halifax" as he says it with the most contrived Newfoundlander accent imaginable. He's been around for 5 months.

    So, if that is the person, you've been scammed. By the way, employers have busses that go up north. He could board it anytime. If he got the job through the Hall, then there are definitely ways up there. Told him so, showed him where he could catch one. He approached me the next day, same story.

    ...am I getting jaded, hell yeah.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

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    Back on topic...

    Cameras could help, I just wonder on the administration and set up costs. Is this a real savings over a beat cop?
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  8. #8

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    Yes - almost verbatim. The "God Bless You" at the very end was a real tip off - but still - a lot of people hit hard times and others will never be "employable" so a few bucks out of my pocket may keep them from committing some crime to put 'whatever' on their table.

    (Of course - some people are just "takers" - but I figure the best ones are always very gainfully employed.)

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    London is heavily surveyed and is seems to have helped there. Essentially it's a supplemental system - the cameras can alert beat cops where to head.

    For Edmonton, though, perhaps the money would be more wisely invested in beat cops for the time being.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    Quote Originally Posted by KC
    I have no problem with panhandlers, squeegee people, etc. I gave 20-bucks to a guy that "needed to catch a bus" the other week. (Yes, may have got scammed - but what if the guy really was telling the truth??? - I buy a watch and I'm likely handing over a 50%+ profit margin or helping grossly enrich (...)
    Let me guess...

    "Sir, I just got a job in Ft McMurray but I need money to catch the Greyhound to get there. I really am not someone who begs but I need to get up there. Anything you can spare is great."

    About late 20's, 6', wears a red or blue ball cap, sometimes a green jacket, sometimes off brown.

    Why?

    He's been walking around for 3 months already. Same as the "help out an old drunk from Halifax" as he says it with the most contrived Newfoundlander accent imaginable. He's been around for 5 months.

    So, if that is the person, you've been scammed. By the way, employers have busses that go up north. He could board it anytime. If he got the job through the Hall, then there are definitely ways up there. Told him so, showed him where he could catch one. He approached me the next day, same story.

    ...am I getting jaded, hell yeah.

    That guy hassled me last week actually.

    A friend of mine was in a drunken fight outside a pub in london last week that got broken up pretty much immediately due to the cctv system there. Might not be a bad idea on whyte. It would have certainly helped in the Canada day riot over there, not to mention all the hooliganism that happens at night.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    Back on topic...

    Cameras could help, I just wonder on the administration and set up costs. Is this a real savings over a beat cop?
    Done properly a beat cop is also a tourist information stop, place to report a crime, a socilal work presence, a hailer of a cab or an ambulance, or even just a friendly face on a lonely street.

    Camera's cant do that. And for the most part, neither can police in cars.

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    ...but the ones on bikes can...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  13. #13

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    I'm thinking more as FIGHT Data Recorders - no monitoring at all - as monitoring essentially takes a warm body off the street. A/V recorders would only act as witnesses after the event just as bystanders do.

    (And just as any testimony from any witness - it can be wrong or lead to wrong conclusions but on balance it's better than nothing.)

    Moreover, we'd only be following the lead of the private sector - Banks, 7-11's, etc don't monitor their cameras - but they do sometimes deter (or move?) crime, and do help after the fact.

    On the streets, record-onlys' would avoid a lot of the 'invasion of privacy', big brother distaste London's CATVs created.

    Note: Sorry folks, I thought Fight Data Recorder was rather cute so I couldn't resist changing the subject heading. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    ...but the ones on bikes can...
    No way, the bike cops are freaky, especially when they parade down Whyte in a huge pack of 30.

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    Looks like another "old drunk from Halifax/Trying to get to Ft. McMurray" scammer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton Journal

    Hard-luck 'Bonnyville' woman takes panhandling to new level
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    Font: * * * * The Edmonton Journal
    Published: Monday, May 01, 2006
    I've always been of the belief that when someone is down on their luck, they deserve help.

    I'm now rethinking that philosophy based on a recent incident. On Tuesday, April 18, at approximately 6:30 p.m., I decided to shop after work in the west end at Mayfield Common.

    I parked my car in front of Winners and, as soon as I'd closed my door, I was approached by a lady, about 30 years of age. She was nicely dressed, seemed well educated, clean and in tears. "Excuse me, ma'am," was her opening remark.

    I asked her what was wrong. She told me that she was from Bonnyville and on her way to Medicine Hat because her father was ill after a heart attack.

    She had car problems and couldn't continue her journey and was trying to round up some cash for a cheap hotel for the night. She asked me for $5.

    I would not normally have believed the tale, but I felt sorry for her plight. For some reason I thought she was genuine, so I went into my purse and asked her if she had enough money.

    She said she was short $5 or $10 and I actually gave her the only $20 bill that I had.

    She thanked me profusely, said: "God bless you," and said that she couldn't understand why people were so suspicious.

    I went on my way thinking that she needed the money more than I did. However, a couple of times I questioned if she was truly in dire straits.

    On Sunday, April 23, I stopped late in the evening at Safeway in Westmount Shopping Centre. It was dark and there were not many cars in the parking lot.

    As soon as I'd closed my car door, there she was in front of me. "Excuse me ma'am. Could you help me? I'm from Bonnyville and I'm stranded."

    A smile came to my face. There she was -- the same lady, shoulder-length brown hair, same story!

    I was surprised and yet not surprised.

    What are the odds of her approaching me twice within one week in a different location?

    I didn't listen to her whole story but told her that maybe she should return the $20 that I'd given her last Tuesday night in the west end. What a look of surprise on her face! She gave me a blank look, turned and walked away.

    I obviously don't know her real story (I'm sure she has a good one) and in some ways I feel sad for her that she is doing what she's doing.

    It's incredible in this day and age, with all the job opportunities out there, that someone has to stoop so low to beg and deceive.

    She obviously makes a reasonable living from this.

    Maybe she should be on the stage because her performance the first time around was so convincing.

    If you've encountered this lady, you'll know the story. If not, then don't be fooled.

    Pam Wellings, Edmonton

    © The Edmonton Journal 2006
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  16. #16

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    At least it's entrepreneurial behavior.

    As well all know - lately Whyte is seeing much more destructive and threatening behavior. Something I haven't heard on the news was my wife's note that the shop owner's insurance rates will skyrocket. Imagine forever paying outrageous insurance rates because of the annual risk that someone will willingly torch or otherwise destroy your premises.

    Why did the city pull the cameras off Whyte? During these events the police are overwhelmed (at our expense!) - but maybe broadcasting detailed video footage of each bit of vandalism would curtail the behavior.

  17. #17

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    Well - it's a few months later (since I posted the above comment) and all I hear about on the news is violent crime after violent crime being committed. I know no one wants a "Big Brother" situation however, I think some creativity needs to be applied to the problem.

    Unfortunately these suggestions aren't very creative but... How about strategically located cameras in high crime rate areas. Or at intersections every few miles so at least after a crime is committed, at say 3:00 am, all the plates of cars that passed nearby could be assessed for their potential involvement.

  18. #18

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    Video cameras on busses might be good.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  19. #19

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    a friend e-mailed me this link - very interesting... crime is down dramatically...

    Armed with cameras, Richard Law and his neighbours are winning the war against crime in Belgravia

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...90916-sun.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...but the ones on bikes can...
    I have a helmet camera that records while I ride my bike. I wouldn't be surprised if the bike cops get them too.

    Here's a link to a short YouTube of my commute showing how cars often block the lane or cut into it without looking left.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOollVc3jYo
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  21. #21

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    I like the idea of setting up cameras to assist the beat cops in the area. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we install cameras as a replacement for the police presence, merely as another tool that they can use. More and more I find that Edmonton's bar districts are becoming increasingly hostile after dark. Until there is a way to teach the trouble makers what kinds of behavior is inappropriate, I support better surveillance. Turn downtown and Whyte into a panopticon- just don't let these low class morons ruin our city.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

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    Jimbo, you clearly need to install a loud muffler on your bike

    Gord

  23. #23

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    Video cameras can only do so much due to the proliferation of criminals who wear huge hoodies with their face buried inside and out of plain view.

    Worse for shop owners is the hoodie has somehow become a huge fashion statement with todays youth who seem to wear them in all types of weather.

    Quite a few shopkeepers get very nervous with the trend as you never know if the person is trying to be incognito for a reason..

    Today at Whyte Avenue 7-11 its over 20celsius with warm sunshine and in comes a guy with a hoodie as I'm making my purchase.

    Why he has a thick black hoodie on in this temperature is anybodies guess.

    The staff immediately indicated he would need to take his hoodie off or leave premises immediately.

    She was ready for trouble.

    The guy took his hoodie off his head seeming to think nothing of it.

    Are people really this clueless?

    Would you walk into a store with a nylon over your head and think you didn't look suspicious?

    Interestingly the young guy loitered for a bit with everybody staring at him and then left without making any purchase after talking on his cellphone.

    Who knows why he entered the 7-11.
    Last edited by Replacement; 10-05-2009 at 09:59 PM.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I know the hatred we all have of Big Brother using CATVs to monitor everyone's movements like they use in London, etc. (I believe the monitored cameras along Whyte Avenue were removed weren't they?)

    However, I've never understood why our city doesn't use un-monitored cameras to simply and cheaply record events. Only if a crime were reported would the 'tapes' be pulled and reviewed. (This is no different than all the private security cameras in use in retail stores, banks, etc.)

    I've recently heard of several unusually aggressive and 'intimidating' approaches being made by guys trying to obtain money from people walking downtown. One girl (a friend of friend) has been approached several times recently - with one guy suggesting he'd walk with her to her ATM to get him money. Incredible! That's stepping WAY over the line in my world. That same girl had a guy slap her trunk and then accuse her of backing into him - fortunately a lady who witnessed this came up and defended her.

    Note: I prefer the idea of numerous police foot patrols but we all know that that idea's been on the table for decades.
    To your last paragraph I agree that a large police presence is never going to happen, history shows that we have a minimal at best police presence on streets. I have no problem with CCTV since I am not going to commit a crime and they are used in most European cities. It is not an infringement on my civil liberty. Would be good to point out those who were breaking laws.

    So I would happily have them on every street corner as a tool to ascertain the criminal elements.
    We are all the same, just different...

  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    I have a helmet camera that records while I ride my bike. I wouldn't be surprised if the bike cops get them too.

    Here's a link to a short YouTube of my commute showing how cars often block the lane or cut into it without looking left.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOollVc3jYo

    Being a cyclist I just loved that video Jimbo. Great musical accompaniment too.
    I found it hilarious how the music frames in a deadpan/slapstick way the many driver indiscretions occurring.

    I give it several thumbs of mirth.

    You seem to have a gift sir.

  26. #26

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    I don't think cameras would solve all problems, but I think they would help. Lets face it, everybody carries a camera in their pocket now, I don't see the harm, and you would think not too expensive given todays digital technology and the low cost of hard drives. Sort of a one time cost too - get the system up and running, then aside from occasional maintenance, we have it for good.

  27. #27

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    I just don't want live monitoring.

    The world is too much like "1984" already. Sorry - "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

    Is that even mentioned in schools anymore?

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I just don't want live monitoring.

    The world is too much like "1984" already. Sorry - "Nineteen Eighty-Four"

    Is that even mentioned in schools anymore?
    Actually, I agree with KC, I don't like monitoring, either. So we should get rid of all the police, all the cameras, and make it illegal to look at other people in public.
    (Sorry, KC, my sarcastic response was overly harsh, I mean you no disrespect) My point is that cameras are no different than people, except for their better perspective, and reliable, unbiased memories (especially in areas where practically everyone is drunk).

    And 1984 was on the curriculum, but we never got to it, because they don't have deadlines in school anymore...

  29. #29

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    Cameras do nothing. Show me statistics where proving they prevent crime! They don’t! And show me the statistics proving that camera have helped catch people after the fact! Plain and simple, they don’t. The numbers are not there.

    Supporting cameras is supporting an increase in the surveillance/orwellian state of the world we live in.

    You want crime to be prevented -> more beat cops
    You want an illusion of safety and a slow decay of personal liberty -> more cameras
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  30. #30

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    ^Hate to break to you, but you are already on film (or hard drive) all over the place right now, stores, parkades, all sorts of businesses use cameras both inside, and outside, the premises.

    No-body is saying a camera that is not live monitored is going to prevent a crime that is happening right now, but it will provide information on solving crimes, and identifying problem areas, just as store front cameras are doing at the moment.

    The imaginary put a beat cop on every corner everywhere to watch us 100% of the time, is a lot more Orwellian IMO (not to mention, a lot more costly). For the one off price of perhaps a half dozen beat cops (I'm just speculating, I don't really know the cost, although web-cams are incredibly cheap which makes me think even an outside digital system shouldn't be much), the entire downtown could be monitored permanently. After that, we have the best of both worlds - beat cops, plus a system to back it up (and even to see, if they are doing their job right).

    Better yet, with some imagination and co-ordination, businesses may be willing to "chip in" on the cost as well (as it could reduce the monitoring cost some already incur).
    Last edited by moahunter; 15-05-2009 at 04:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^Hate to break to you, but you are already on film (or hard drive) all over the place right now, stores, parkades, all sorts of businesses use cameras both inside, and outside, the premises.
    Cameras observing private property are not the same as cameras observing public spaces.
    Strathcona City Separatist

  32. #32

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    ^How so? I think you will find many business cameras at the moment are observing public places in front of stores. That's going to become more and more frequent. It sort of makes sense to centralize the system, increase coverage, share the costs, and put some controls on it (of which there are none right now).

  33. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Cameras do nothing. Show me statistics where proving they prevent crime! They donít! And show me the statistics proving that camera have helped catch people after the fact! Plain and simple, they donít. The numbers are not there.

    Supporting cameras is supporting an increase in the surveillance/orwellian state of the world we live in.

    You want crime to be prevented -> more beat cops
    You want an illusion of safety and a slow decay of personal liberty -> more cameras
    Good points. I haven't seen any numbers. However, I would think that photos could also possibly prevent some cases of mistaken identity since witnesses often make very poor witnesses.

  34. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Good points. I haven't seen any numbers. However, I would think that photos could also possibly prevent some cases of mistaken identity since witnesses often make very poor witnesses.
    I agree, but do not think my civil liberty is worth the possibility of a bad guy maybe getting caught.
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  35. #35

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    ^So do you refuse to walk on the street outside stores today because they are filimng you? Give me a break. Being an annomynous figure on a hard drive doesn't offend anyones civil liberty, anymore than somebody taking a photo of me on the street with their cell phone does.

  36. #36

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    So it looks like five years later my suggestion has pretty much suffered from technological obsolescence - at least where there are bystanders.



    Mob rules in attack on Vancouver rioters
    BY EZRA LEVANT,QMI AGENCY
    TUESDAY, JUNE 21, 2011

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/06/2...couver-rioters

    excerpt:
    "But Findlay did use the word “mob.” Not to describe his client, though.
    Findlay used the word mob to describe the citizens on Facebook who took Kotylak’s photo, and then identified and condemned him."

  37. #37

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    Dash cams are great! - Again - they are essentially unmonitored so they need a complaint or something to trigger a review of the recording.


    Madison police officer accused of injuring elderly man charged w - ABC 33/40 - Birmingham News, Weather, Sports

    http://www.abc3340.com/story/2809919...fired-arrested


    .


    ...and of course *****'s friend's with smartphone cameras at the ready are also good for viral embarrassment of the *****.

    'Don't be a f****** wido!' Watch annoying teen get just desserts for throwing chips at McDonald's customer
    14:09, 12 February 2015 By Ian Hughes

    "The tables were dramatically turned on Kieran Taylor, when the woman's friend marched over and grabbed him by the throat - leaving him close to tears"


    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...151992#rlabs=2


    .
    Last edited by KC; 13-02-2015 at 09:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Yes - almost verbatim. The "God Bless You" at the very end was a real tip off - but still - a lot of people hit hard times and others will never be "employable" so a few bucks out of my pocket may keep them from committing some crime to put 'whatever' on their table.

    (Of course - some people are just "takers" - but I figure the best ones are always very gainfully employed.)
    A lot of times they have addictions and if you give them money it only goes to feed that addiction. If you want to help the poor give to charities, don't give to panhandlers.

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    Sorry, I just realized that was an EXTREMELY old post I quoted. Please disregard

  40. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    Sorry, I just realized that was an EXTREMELY old post I quoted. Please disregard
    That's alright, I think it's quite ok to quote old posts, old people and even long dead people. While we are stuck in the moment, not all issues are.

    (Though I do understand how hard it is to break away from our pre-internet conception of the world.)

  41. #41

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    It seems in the last few years cellphone cameras are turning up all kinds of things like police brutality etc.

    Here we have a couple videos creating interesting reactions...
    Why did an Edmonton bus driver kick a student off his bus?
    http://globalnews.ca/video/2029908/w...nt-off-his-bus
    NEWS | Jun 2, 2015 | 0:25
    Watch as student hits bus driver with bag
    http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada...ID/2668654946/

    And more...

    Student threatened violence before driver threw him off school bus: company

    Emily Mertz By Emily Mertz
    Web Producer Global News
    http://globalnews.ca/news/2029113/bu...ical-violence/
    Last edited by KC; 02-06-2015 at 08:19 AM.

  42. #42

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    People are going to be yearning for the good old days when only the police and the judge saw the CATV videos...

    (Walmart too. Watch for ads to appear soon trying to upgrade the public image of the Walmart shopper.)


    Tuesday, June 9, 2015
    2 women brawl inside Walmart; Police investigating child involvement (VIDEO)
    http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/indian...ild-kid/nmY3d/


    Walmart Fight Between 2 Women And Kid VIDEO "White Trash" Walmart Fight Beech Grove Indiana
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKF4ZKt_M1M


    I'm shocked...

    Shocking video shows violent road rage brawl in Los Angeles
    June 9, 2015
    http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/nation...#__federated=1


    Shocking video shows two men brawl on train after row over feet on glass partition
    9 JUNE 2015
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...wo-men-5853645


    Shocking video shows family terrorised by bikers
    June 9, 2015
    https://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/28...sed-by-bikers/


    Shocking Video Shows Police's Horrifying Response to Being Filmed by an Innocent Bystander
    June 08, 2015
    http://mic.com/articles/120296/shock...d-pepper-spray


    WATCH: Shocking video shows child tossed off school
    May 31, 2015
    http://globalnews.ca/news/2027777/wa...er-pulls-away/
    Last edited by KC; 10-06-2015 at 02:13 AM.

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    I don't know if I agree. I'm happy there are more cameras out there. I just wish people wouldn't doctor them and try and pass it off like they sometimes do.

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mla View Post
    I don't know if I agree. I'm happy there are more cameras out there. I just wish people wouldn't doctor them and try and pass it off like they sometimes do.
    Or only show part of the video to alter its context.

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    I'm game for camera's everywhere as long as they're everywhere. Particularly inside police stations.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  46. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I'm game for camera's everywhere as long as they're everywhere. Particularly inside police stations.
    Police cameras break down, for some reason. I wonder what that is.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I'm game for camera's everywhere as long as they're everywhere. Particularly inside police stations.
    Police cameras break down, for some reason. I wonder what that is.
    Probably because they cannot even pull out their taser or pistol and aim it at a threatening person on a video without legions of libtards pulling out pitchforks, demanding the officer's resignation.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    I'm game for camera's everywhere as long as they're everywhere. Particularly inside police stations.
    Police cameras break down, for some reason. I wonder what that is.
    Probably because they cannot even pull out their taser or pistol and aim it at a threatening person on a video without legions of libtards pulling out pitchforks, demanding the officer's resignation.
    Don't get all hyperbolic. Cops can and do pull out weapons in situations that require it and no one cares. It's when they shoot unarmed suspects in the back that we want them sent to prison like any other murderer.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  49. #49

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    It's not hyperbole. Every time a suspect is shot, hordes of bleeding hearts cry out, "Why didn't the officer just shoot him in the legs?" "Why didn't he use his taser instead?" "Why didn't he just hold him at gunpoint?".

    Yet when an officer merely pulls his weapon on a suspect to maintain a bit of order (like that nonsense in Dallas suburb where the video clearly shows the youths trying to surround and hit the officer, some of them even reaching behind their backs and pretending to pull out weapons, and when the officer only takes his pistol out and aims it at one person, the complainers do the exact same thing - "Why did he have to point his gun?")

    I have no idea why anyone would want to become a police officer, with the nonsense they have to put up with coming from all sides.

  50. #50
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    Definitely hyperbolic, and you're certainly confusing what's going on in the US with what's going on in Canada. I can recall no significant protests or controversies in recent memory about police shootings in Edmonton or Western Canada, as they've generally been justified. What's going on in the US is absolutely ridiculous, however. That Dallas police officer was clearly in the wrong in how he handled that situation. There were numerous other officers present, and none of them were waving their pistols around like Dirty Harry. In some ways I do sympathize with police in the US, as there is a ridiculous number of guns in circulation there compared to here. But some of the stories coming out of the US over the past while are beyond belief: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...Key=&autologin

    Shoot first, ask questions later.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 12-06-2015 at 09:37 AM.

  51. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Definitely hyperbolic, and you're certainly confusing what's going on in the US with what's going on in Canada. I can recall no significant protests or controversies in recent memory about police shootings in Edmonton or Western Canada, as they've generally been justified. What's going on in the US is absolutely ridiculous, however. That Dallas police officer was clearly in the wrong in how he handled that situation. There were numerous other officers present, and none of them were waving their pistols around like Dirty Harry. In some ways I do sympathize with police in the US, as there is a ridiculous number of guns in circulation there compared to here. But some of the stories coming out of the US over the past while are beyond belief: http://www.desmoinesregister.com/sto...Key=&autologin

    Shoot first, ask questions later.
    "Clearly in the wrong" maybe, but 'actually' wrong requires a full sense and knowledge of the situation and what led up to it. These are humans that are involved and so emotions and all kinds of other mind and mental issues can be involved.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    "Clearly in the wrong" maybe, but 'actually' wrong requires a full sense and knowledge of the situation and what led up to it. These are humans that are involved and so emotions and all kinds of other mind and mental issues can be involved.
    Let's go with "actually", since the officer himself has apologized and resigned. The police chief was quick to also call his actions "indefensible": http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/v...ol-party-video

    http://news.yahoo.com/mckinney-polic...190534788.html

    Sounds like he'd had a pretty awful shift prior to arriving at that scene. No one's saying that the job is easy. But his actions could well have resulted in someone getting killed. As the police chief says, there were 12 officers present, and only 1 was out of control.

  53. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    It's not hyperbole. Every time a suspect is shot, hordes of bleeding hearts cry out, "Why didn't the officer just shoot him in the legs?" "Why didn't he use his taser instead?" "Why didn't he just hold him at gunpoint?".

    Yet when an officer merely pulls his weapon on a suspect to maintain a bit of order (like that nonsense in Dallas suburb where the video clearly shows the youths trying to surround and hit the officer, some of them even reaching behind their backs and pretending to pull out weapons, and when the officer only takes his pistol out and aims it at one person, the complainers do the exact same thing - "Why did he have to point his gun?")

    I have no idea why anyone would want to become a police officer, with the nonsense they have to put up with coming from all sides.
    By "hordes of bleeding hearts" I think you mean a couple challenged folks with access to the internet. In most of those cases it's not even liberals, it's acquaintances of the accused/perp/victim. The vast majority understand that force can be necessary and applaud it's use (shooting this week right here in Edmonton, for example). The vast majority also want cameras on cops to make sure that when they do abuse their power, they're held accountable.

    Pretty simple really. No crazy liberal agenda.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    No crazy liberal agenda.
    No agenda needed. There are enough unorganized cop-haters out there to blame officers for all of society's ills.

  55. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    No crazy liberal agenda.
    No agenda needed. There are enough unorganized cop-haters out there to blame officers for all of society's ills.
    Interesting... The may be no place for irrational love or hate relationships. Cameras upon cameras might show its best to adopt a position of neutrality.


    Video of Santa Ana Police Pot-Shop Raid Shows Officers Eating ‘Edibles,’ Attorney Says
    POSTED 3:45 PM, JUNE 11, 2015, BY CHRISTINA PASCUCCI, MELISSA PAMER, KIRK HAWKINS AND ERIC SPILLMAN

    "Video of the raid was taken by the regular surveillance cameras the shop had in place, as well as a hidden one set up in anticipation of a police visit."

    "The footage shows at least eight officers busting into the dispensary, guns drawn, shouting “everybody on the ground” to customers and workers."

    " “I was about to kick her in her f—ing nub,” a female officer later says of a customer with an amputated leg in a wheelchair."

    "The officers proceed to remove surveillance cameras mounted on the ceiling, the video shows."


    http://ktla.com/2015/06/11/video-of-...attorney-says/
    Last edited by KC; 13-06-2015 at 08:35 AM.

  56. #56
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    That video looks like something out of Supertroopers or Reno 911.

  57. #57

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    Another interesting scenario - recorded on a camera...

    Accusing the wrong guy maybe...


    'I brushed past her ... then was charged with sex attack' - BBC News

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35531436?SThisFB


  58. #58

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    Shows the potential value of unmonitored recordings...

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35991375

  59. #59

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    Last night, the protesters were apparently carrying cameras and smartphones recording everything. The value of digitizing these events is becoming very obvious.



    Curfew imposed in Charlotte as Keith Scott's family view footage of killing


    ...
    Details of what happened to Carr have been muddled, with conflicting explanations from city officials. At first Putney said the man had died Wednesday night, and then that announcement was reversed, and then remade on Thursday.

    The city also said the man, whose name had not been released, was injured during a “civilian on civilian” shooting. But that explanation seemed increasingly tenuous by Thursday afternoon.

    “There was no fight,” said Eddie Thomas, an attorney and Charlotte public defender. He was at the intersection in question to observe interactions between police and the public, he said. “There was no issue between protesters. It just didn’t happen.”

    Thomas’s account agrees with what other witnesses claimed to see. “I saw the police shoot that man almost point blank with my own eyes,” Jimmy James Tyson wrote on Facebook afterward. “Police shot him close range in the side of the head with a rubber bullet

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...age-of-killing

  60. #60

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    Note the fact that the camera was on a house and looks like it was monitoring someoneís trailer:

    Video shows beating, kidnapping of Trevor Lomond; killers plead ... - Calgary Sun
    calgarysun.com õ local-news õ tr...
    22 hours ago ∑ Video shows beating, kidnapping of Trevor Lomond; killers plead guilty to manslaughter.


    Brutal kidnapping that led to Calgary manís death detailed | Calgary Sun

    http://calgarysun.com/news/local-new...ary-kidnapping





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