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Thread: Restaurant Patio Discussion

  1. #1
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    Default Restaurant Patio Discussion

    Ok....so here i go...

    I cannot understand why more places DO NOT HAVE THEIR PATIOS either setup or open.

    Free press bistro is my main target.

    "we havent had time to go buy furniture yet"

    what the hell you been doing all winter then?

    I cannot believe more places first of all dont have patios, second of all dont have them setup and getting the word out.

    EDMONTON, why oh why can you NOT HAVE MORE PATIOS!

    oh, my other beef is with LA TAPA....your 2pm-5pm siesta makes 4pm drinks on a friday NOT POSSIBLE. I was there last week and there must have been 15 people come and leave cause you were closed....
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    Yep, I certainly do not understand La TAPA's hours...
    Onward and upward

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    When in doubt....just blame it on the labour shortage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    Yep, I certainly do not understand La TAPA's hours...
    Their hours are somewhat interesting but their Potatoes Aiello makes it worthwhile!

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    Labour Shortage.



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    nope..they have done this as far back as i can recall
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    These hours were the same when that location was La Veranda...a whole bunch of years ago!

    None of the patios on RHW were overly busy this afternoon...perhaps a little too warm or perhaps allergy sufferers (like me!) are staying inside to avoid all the poplar fuzz?

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    i have to say im beginning to think Edmontonians are boring, lifeless, people...
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i have to say im beginning to think Edmontonians are boring, lifeless, people...
    or people who have too much on their plate to skip out Friday afternoons regardless of the colour of their collar...
    or people who have options or choices a bit broader than buying a drink on someone else's patio...
    IanO, you have to learn to be little less judgemental of - and quick to judge - those who do not want everything exactly the way you do. That's what makes us different and makes life stimulating. It doesn't make us - or you - wrong or boring or lifeless people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i have to say im beginning to think Edmontonians are boring, lifeless, people...
    or people who have too much on their plate to skip out Friday afternoons regardless of the colour of their collar...
    or people who have options or choices a bit broader than buying a drink on someone else's patio...
    IanO, you have to learn to be little less judgemental of - and quick to judge - those who do not want everything exactly the way you do. That's what makes us different and makes life stimulating. It doesn't make us - or you - wrong or boring or lifeless people.
    it isnt the 1st time ive felt this way Ken...i walk around downtown a lot...and i cannot get over how many condos/apartments there are and barely anyone on the street, patroning local watering holes or food shops...sitting back on a bench.

    This happens daytime, nightime, weekend, weekday...

    I honestly feel like Edmonton maintains the "deadmonton" stereotype by not taking advantage of things to do outside.

    We all complain about how long winters are...well its +26 and sun out...but patios 1/2 full.

    perhaps my view is becoming the glass is half empty...
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    Heck yeah Edmonton needs more patios!! Sidewalk, rooftop, courtyard, whatever.

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    I've actually entertained the idea of becoming a patio consultant, going around to dif bars and restaurants with designs of their patio potential.

    A few handrails partitioning of a segment of the parking lot does not a patio make. Think Secret Garden, people. Abundance of flower pots and high walls to block out the traffic.

    The biggest shame is that the existing patios seem to have been relegated to the smokers. Think Suede lounge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    I've actually entertained the idea of becoming a patio consultant, going around to dif bars and restaurants with designs of their patio potential.

    A few handrails partitioning of a segment of the parking lot does not a patio make. Think Secret Garden, people. Abundance of flower pots and high walls to block out the traffic.

    The biggest shame is that the existing patios seem to have been relegated to the smokers. Think Suede lounge.
    now thats a business idea!

    i just wish the city would allow businesses to take over 5' of space directly in front of their business for patios./
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i just wish the city would allow businesses to take over 5' of space directly in front of their business for patios./
    ITA. I asked this before: isn't there some sort of strange bylaw that doesn't allow sidewalk tables? The same bylaw that is preventing the patio explosion?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i just wish the city would allow businesses to take over 5' of space directly in front of their business for patios./
    ITA. I asked this before: isn't there some sort of strange bylaw that doesn't allow sidewalk tables? The same bylaw that is preventing the patio explosion?
    something along that ridiculously stupid lines
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    There is a bylaw regulation regarding space and tolerance levels for patios which no doubt is part of the reason some restaurant owners do not bother.

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    i know it isnt just an Edmonton thing...but good god...sometimes it is one step forward 4 backward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i have to say im beginning to think Edmontonians are boring, lifeless, people...
    or people who have too much on their plate to skip out Friday afternoons regardless of the colour of their collar...
    or people who have options or choices a bit broader than buying a drink on someone else's patio...
    IanO, you have to learn to be little less judgemental of - and quick to judge - those who do not want everything exactly the way you do. That's what makes us different and makes life stimulating. It doesn't make us - or you - wrong or boring or lifeless people.
    it isnt the 1st time ive felt this way Ken...i walk around downtown a lot...and i cannot get over how many condos/apartments there are and barely anyone on the street, patroning local watering holes or food shops...sitting back on a bench.

    This happens daytime, nightime, weekend, weekday...

    I honestly feel like Edmonton maintains the "deadmonton" stereotype by not taking advantage of things to do outside.

    We all complain about how long winters are...well its +26 and sun out...but patios 1/2 full.

    perhaps my view is becoming the glass is half empty...
    I would have to agree with Ian here....
    I really want to love Edmonton.. and it has some much potential.... young city, booming economy, etc. etc. but the city consistently under-deliver-s!
    RHW has such potential but isn't quite there.. and I always wonder what the '''' all those people in those downtown condos are doing too! where are they?
    Whyte is great, but a decent big city has more than one district that is truly alive....
    the spattering of interesting stuff here and there [culina and environs, bacon and environs, RHW, the half there-ness of 124 th] doesn't quite cut the mustard.
    For a city that is so proud of itself/quick to defend itself from attacks, people sure like to hang out in their suburban backyards and not participate...
    That combined with the chance to sell the ol' homestead after rapid appreciation in a short time, etc. etc. there is less and less to keep someone here...

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    Expect the Bank's roof top patio next summer.

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    A warm summer weekend - the last one we'll likely get - and two of the most popular patios are already closed for the winter. The two are Joey's downtown and Earls Tin Palace. Nice going, people.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    ^oh...tell me about ******* bout it....SO ****** OFF AT THIS CITY SOMETIMES!


    it is absolutely ridiculous how we deal with patios here...


    set them up june 30, take em down sept 1...

    they could easy be open, if designed right, from april -halloween.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    ^oh...tell me about f*** bout it....SO p*ss OFF AT THIS CITY SOMETIMES!


    it is absolutely ridiculous how we deal with patios here...


    set them up june 30, take em down sept 1...

    they could easy be open, if designed right, from april -halloween.
    good luck with yours IanO. just don't forget that it's not just a matter of "if designed right" - it's also a matter of being able to find enough staff to keep them open - something that is not as easy before school is out or after school is back. patios aren't any different than drive-throughs or cash registers at the grocery store or at winners - without staff, they won't be open.

    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
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    I ate on the patio of the Burger Bar and Grill saturday night. Not the best area to sit outside, but couldn't let what might be the last warm weekend slip away. awesome food btw

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    A warm summer weekend - the last one we'll likely get - and two of the most popular patios are already closed for the winter. The two are Joey's downtown and Earls Tin Palace. Nice going, people.
    Pathetic move big time. Honestly, we could still get 2-3 more weeks of patio weather....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    ^oh...tell me about f*** bout it....SO p*ss OFF AT THIS CITY SOMETIMES!


    it is absolutely ridiculous how we deal with patios here...


    set them up june 30, take em down sept 1...

    they could easy be open, if designed right, from april -halloween.
    good luck with yours IanO. just don't forget that it's not just a matter of "if designed right" - it's also a matter of being able to find enough staff to keep them open - something that is not as easy before school is out or after school is back. patios aren't any different than drive-throughs or cash registers at the grocery store or at winners - without staff, they won't be open.

    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
    You know what. The average patron would gladly go to the bar and take their drinks and food out themselves if it meant sitting out on a beautiful day like today.
    If only somebody so much as wiped the tables down and left this open as an option.

    Theres ways to adapt to less staffing and still allowing the customer what they want on a nice weekend day which I dare say is important to denizens of a city that experienced a 7mth winter and want nothing more than to hold onto every precious day like today.

    Lets not accentuate the winter cities theme by having only two months of patios

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    Speaking of patios, I experienced Lattitude 53 awesome roof top patio the other night.... awesome! What a great venue to host events!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
    the mac's patio? On 113or114 and jasper ave? You mean the curb of the sidewalk where the bums sit and ask you for change, and if you don't provide change, they threaten to do physical harm to you or your vehicle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT
    I ate on the patio of the Burger Bar and Grill saturday night. Not the best area to sit outside, but couldn't let what might be the last warm weekend slip away. awesome food btw
    Where's this place?
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    Quote Originally Posted by feepa
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
    the mac's patio? On 113or114 and jasper ave? You mean the curb of the sidewalk where the bums sit and ask you for change, and if you don't provide change, they threaten to do physical harm to you or your vehicle?

    give me a break...ive sat on many streetside downtown patios and never had an issue...at most it is a "have any change".
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    Quote Originally Posted by feepa
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
    the mac's patio? On 113or114 and jasper ave? You mean the curb of the sidewalk where the bums sit and ask you for change, and if you don't provide change, they threaten to do physical harm to you or your vehicle?

    give me a break...ive sat on many streetside downtown patios and never had an issue...at most it is a "have any change".
    Exactly. That comment was a wee over the top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by feepa
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor
    ps - the mac's patio was open this week - or least it still was on wednesday afternoon.
    the mac's patio? On 113or114 and jasper ave? You mean the curb of the sidewalk where the bums sit and ask you for change, and if you don't provide change, they threaten to do physical harm to you or your vehicle?
    sorry, i was referencing the hotel macdonald and didn't think it would be confused. first time i've been wrong this week ... probably won't be the last.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey
    Quote Originally Posted by LindseyT
    I ate on the patio of the Burger Bar and Grill saturday night. Not the best area to sit outside, but couldn't let what might be the last warm weekend slip away. awesome food btw
    Where's this place?
    106 street and 103 ave?....I think. The building directly south of Metro...used to be an old garage.

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    Ah ha, I thought so...except it's called The Garage.
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    whoops. The garage burger bar and grill.

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    i love how we could have had another month of patio season....maybe more, but no....this is DEADMONTON
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    We could use patio heaters, but then the Kyoto guilt would kill the buzz.
    City Centre Airport is to the sky as False Creek is to the ocean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    i love how we could have had another month of patio season....maybe more, but no....this is DEADMONTON
    I recall that the downtown Ceili's location in Calgary has a rooftop patio that is heated in winter. Anything similar around these here parts?

    A novelty for sure.



    Uhh, a bit of a sore spot for the environmental movement though...

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    patios could be open at least a month or two more in this city and designed right open most of the year with wind blocks and heaters.

    i just dont understand why we do not take full advantage of patios...it is absolutely ridiculous.

    in most cities, yes winter cities, you see ten times the number.
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    IanO

    Simple answer.

    Edmonton historically does not look past its own borders and thinks that winter is 10 months of the year.

    This "big Vegriville" needs to grow up.
    Onward and upward

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS
    IanO

    Simple answer.

    Edmonton historically does not look past its own borders and thinks that winter is 10 months of the year.

    This "big Vegriville" needs to grow up.

    grow up...give up and try again. Oh wait...that is more of what im beginning to think. I love this city and am here because i think it can be far more than it is...but every time i see progress, i see the same mistakes happening over and over.
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    yup
    Onward and upward

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    Ian, is the new lounge you previously hinted that you were researching going to have a patio?

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    Quote Originally Posted by luxbeauty
    Ian, is the new lounge you previously hinted that you were researching going to have a patio?
    you betcha...even if i have to close streets
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    I was thankful to be able to enjoy the sunshine on the patio of the Second Cup on Jasper and 112 this past weekend. The cool autumn breezes were blocked by the building structure and kept the patio warm and sunny. The only thing spoiling the ambiance were the wasps that came out to pester us.
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    I thought that I would resurrect this thread as I needed to rant about the past few days. It has been +17 to +27 the past week and will be the same for the next few days, but trying to find an open patio is harder than getting season tickets to the oilers.

    Last night we called around to many of the patio places downtown last night and almost all of them were "closed for the season"......

    We ended up at Sherlock's on RHW and the entire street had patios open...But outside of that everyone else closed up shop?

    When I lived in Vancouver i would sit on covered and space heated patios in +2 in the middle of january in rain.

    But no... once we get past Sept 3rd we may as well close up until July 1/09?

    I simply cannot understand this city and many of its businesses.
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    Opening up the patio would mean more work and possibly more staff for restaurants. Some restaurant managers in Edmonton are probably hardwired to close the patio after Labour Day. The plastic chairs are already stacked up in the shed.

    It is unfortunate restaurants are not more flexible with patio openings because they would have generated more business during this week of Aboriginal Summer.

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    I tried to look up anything about bylaws regarding patios on the CoE website. Found nothing. Is it possible that some businesses are forced to take down their sidewalk patios by a certain date? A place like say Fluid where the patio takes up the sidewalk must be governed by some bylaw rules.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJ View Post
    I tried to look up anything about bylaws regarding patios on the CoE website. Found nothing. Is it possible that some businesses are forced to take down their sidewalk patios by a certain date? A place like say Fluid where the patio takes up the sidewalk must be governed by some bylaw rules.
    Nope. Either an establishment is allowed to have a patio or not. There are no date restrictions.

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    ^bingo.
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    Well maybe the prior owner of 9th Street Bistro was making stuff up. I'll have to bring this licencing/patio rules up again with the current guy running that place whenever I may run into him again and remember this issue.

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    ^i love how 9thstreet bistro/martini's didnt have their patio open this year.

    woo
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    Something about a licencing issue... or more like the current owner failed to apply/purchase said patio licence. Not smart whatsoever. It was forced to shutdown during an afternoon inspection in I dunno, June or July? At the very least, that was the only non-compliance found. I didn't even know such an inspector comes in and checks for stuff like alcohol watering and floaties in the booze.

    That said, who wants to sit on 109th street during rush hour traffic anyway? Major loss of revenue for that business, but personally not a loss at all -- there's way nicer places to sit outside with a cold one.

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    ^personally i like their patio and it is somewhat akin to Fluid's in that it is beside the action. Not to mention there is something wonderful about sitting on a patio sipping a cold one with people rushing home or stuck in traffic.
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    I know... what a joke. Half these places didn't even set up their patios until the last week of May, then they put the tables & chairs away seemingly as fast as they can when things got cool at teh end of August.

    One would think it would be good business to open a patio when it gets warm out - even if it's only a few tables.

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    ^and that's the thing... it doesnt have to be 30 tables, just 3-4
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    A few years ago I remember a big fuss when businesses on Whyte set up their patios in April (the horror!) because the weather was nice. Their patio licenses didn't start until May or something, so they were ticketed and shutdown. Did that change?

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    Quote Originally Posted by newfangled View Post
    A few years ago I remember a big fuss when businesses on Whyte set up their patios in April (the horror!) because the weather was nice. Their patio licenses didn't start until May or something, so they were ticketed and shutdown. Did that change?
    Exactly what IanO and North Guy66 said did not exist. I am convinced there has been or continues to be rules surrounding patios. If only I could find the bylaw literature outlining this!

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    voila
    --------


    TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT
    15th Floor, Century Place, 9803-102A Avenue
    Edmonton, Alberta, T5J 3A3

    GUIDELINES FOR SIDEWALK CAFES

    Definition and Purpose

    A sidewalk cafe is defined as the extension of a minor or major eating establishment onto the adjacent
    public road rights-of-way, requiring no permanent construction. A deck will be considered temporary
    providing the entire structure, including supports, can be constructed at or above the surface of the ground
    and can be removed within 24 hours.

    The purpose of these guidelines is to provide criteria for the review of applications for the use of public
    road rights-of-way (which may include sidewalks, boulevards, roadways or alleys) for commercial
    purposes. These guidelines are primarily designed for use in the Downtown area but may be applied
    across the City.

    In the Downtown Plan, a major objective is to encourage street level pedestrian activity. This must be
    accomplished in a way which ensures that pedestrian movement is unobstructed. These guidelines
    establish reasonable conditions for judging whether proposals for the use of public space are acceptable.

    Required Approvals from the City of Edmonton

    Preliminary Approval 1. Upon receipt of an application, complete with an non-refundable
    application fee of $100.00 (plus GST), the Transportation
    Department will meet with the applicant on-site to review the
    proposal and to define the area available for use. If the proposal
    meets these Guidelines, the Transportation Department will
    provide a preliminary letter of support to the applicant, with a copy
    sent to the Planning and Development Department. This
    preliminary approval can expedite the review of a Development
    Permit application. If the proposal does not meet these Guidelines,
    the Transportation Department will advise the applicant and will
    suggest measures to make the proposal conform to the City’s
    requirements.

    Development Permit Required 2. A Development Permit to operate an outdoor eating area is
    required for a sidewalk cafe. Application must be made to the
    Planning and Development Department, where it will be reviewed.
    An application fee of a minimum of $164.00 (plus GST) will be
    charged. The Development Officer may circulate notice of such a
    permit application to surrounding property owners on the basis of a
    perceived or potential impact and may refuse such application on
    the grounds of an unacceptable land use conflict. If the application
    is approved, a permit will be granted with conditions. Contact the
    Development Compliance Branch of the Planning and
    Development Department, 5th Floor, the Allstream Tower, located
    at 10250 – 101 Street.

    ../2
    - 2 -

    Required Approvals from the City of Edmonton (continued)

    Permission to Use Street from 3. A Sidewalk Cafe Licence must be entered into as a condition of
    the Transportation Dept. approval for the Development Permit. The Licence formalizes the
    temporary use of public road rights-of-way and establishes certain
    conditions for the operation of the cafe and is granted by the
    Traffic Operations Branch Manager.

    The Sidewalk Cafe Licence fee will be $100.00 (plus GST) for the
    five year term. If the Licence and the Development Permit are
    approved, the non-refundable application fee will be used as the
    Licence fee for the first five year term. Renewal fees for Sidewalk
    Cafe Licences are $100.00 plus GST for each subsequent five year
    term.

    Note: A new Development Permit is not required for each renewal
    of the Sidewalk Cafe Licence unless the area in use will be
    significantly changed or the number of seats is increased.

    Building Permits 4. A building permit is not required, unless the applicant wishes to
    construct a canopy or temporary structure on the associated
    building, or wishes to build a temporary deck within the Licence
    area.

    Other Required Approvals

    Food Services Permit 5. All restaurants and cafes must obtain a Food Services Permit from
    Capital Health (413-7927 or 413-792. Their approval is also
    required for any increase in seating capacity of the restaurant.

    Liquor Licence 6. To extend the serving of alcoholic beverages to the outdoor cafe
    area, approval of the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission
    (447-8600) is required. This applies even if there is a Licence for
    the interior of existing restaurant / cafe.

    Guidelines

    Planning/Design Considerations 7. Sidewalk cafes must abut the frontage or flankage of an existing
    restaurant or cafe of which they are an extension and must not
    extend laterally beyond that frontage or flankage unless approved
    by the Transportation Department. Adjacent property owners or
    tenants may be contacted to confirm their assent to an extension.
    Building code requirements must be satisfied.

    8. We encourage sidewalk cafes to have an open appearance with a
    defined edge, such as a railing, fence, suspended chain, row of
    planters or pots, or a painted line.

    ../3
    - 3 -

    Guidelines (continued)

    Planning/Design Considerations 9. Rialing or fences are required by the Alberta Gaming and Liquor
    (continued) Commission if alchohol is to be served with the outdoor eating
    area. Railing or fences should not be more than 1.5 metres in
    height. The railing or fence can be secured into a concrete
    sidewalk if the following specifications are met:

    • a 3/8” stainless steel drop-in anchor with a minimum spacing
    of 3-¾” and a minimum distance from any edge of the concrete
    of 4 ½”.

    • a 3/8” stainless steel flat head socket cap must be inserted in
    the anchors when the railing is removed. The anchor must be
    counter sunk so that the socket cap is flush with the sidewalk.

    There shall be no anchoring into any paving stone sidewalk. Any
    other anchoring proposals will be reviewed upon the submission
    by the Licencee of stamped engineering drawings illustrating the
    proposed railing and anchoring methods. Any unusual
    installations require the written permission of the Traffic
    Operations Branch prior to construction.

    10. A retractable or permanent canopy fixed onto adjacent building is
    permitted but will require a building permit.

    11. Sidewalk cafes may be installed after April 1st and must be
    removed no later than October 31st of each year. All tables,
    chairs, benches, planters, canopies, railings, garbage receptacles,
    and ornamental street furniture must be removed on or before
    October 31st of each year (unless the sidewalk cafe will be used
    during the winter; see next paragraph). Sidewalk cafes must be
    constructed in such a way that all items may be easily removed for
    emergency purposes.

    12. Sidewalk cafes may be used from November 1st to March 31st, but
    only tables and chairs may be allowed on the rights-of-way. No
    railings will be allowed during the winter months, therefore, no
    liquor may be served outside at that time (due to the Alberta
    Gaming and Liquor Commission’s requirement to have a railing or
    fence erected to allow the serving of liquor). Tables and chairs
    must be removed each night.


    13. Furniture such as tables and chairs should be of uniform style and
    design and may not be anchored to the sidewalk.



    ../4
    - 4 -

    Guidelines (continued)

    Planning/Design Considerations 14. Individual umbrellas forming part of a table are permitted but must
    (continued) be of a uniform style and patterns, made of non-combustible
    material. The umbrellas may not anchored to the sidewalk and
    must not extend beyond the defined edge of the Licence area.

    15. Fire service connections and/or hydrants must be unobstructed and
    accessible at all times.

    Unobstructed Sidewalk Width 16. In heavy pedestrian areas, a sidewalk cafe should be set back a
    minimum of 3.5 meters from the curb, or provide a minimum of
    3.0 metres of unobstructed sidewalk width. In light pedestrian
    areas, the cafe should be set back 2.0 metres from the curb, or
    provide a minimum of 1.5 meters of unobstructed sidewalk width.
    The cafe shall provide unobstructed access to the entrance to the
    building.

    Liability Insurance 17. The applicant will be required to maintain Liability Insurance as a
    condition of the Sidewalk Cafe Licence (minimum of $2,000,000
    coverage).

    Location 18. Sidewalk cafes are not permitted where a service grate exists.

    19. Sidewalk cafes will not be permitted in locations which, in the
    opinion of the Traffic Operations Branch Manager, obstruct
    sightlines at an intersection, or cause any operational or safety
    problem on the public road rights-of-way.

    20. Sidewalk cafes will be encouraged in areas recommended in
    applicable Statutory Plans.

    21. Sidewalk Cafe Licences will only be granted to minor or major
    eating establishments located on the ground floor of the adjacent
    building.

    22. Smoking is not allowed within the sidewalk cafe area.

    Enforcement 23. Outdoor cafes operating on public road rights-of-way without a
    valid Sidewalk Cafe Licence will be subject to various forms of
    enforcement which can be initiated by the Transportation
    Department. Enforcement measures can include a verbal warning
    from authorized City personnel, a tag being issued for obstructing
    a highway without a permit ($110.00 fine per occurrence under
    Traffic Bylaw 5590, Section 1301), and/or removal of the
    obstructions (including tables, chairs, decks, or any other item
    placed on the road right-of-way) by City forces.
    ../5
    - 5 -

    Guidelines (continued)
    24. Restaurants which default in the performance of any of the
    obligations of the Sidewalk Cafe Licence after it is issued will be
    given seven days to rectify the problem. If the problem persists,
    the Licence shall be terminated and enforcement measures could
    be initiated by the Transportation Department.






    Prepared by: Transportation Department
    Revised: April 20, 2007
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  59. #59

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    Well thanks for proving yourself wrong IanO! Where did you find this info outta curiosity?

    A lounge like Fluid or 9th Street Bistro couldn't serve booze outside and could only put out chairs and tables without railings after October 31st.

    I know for certain, neither Fluid or Martini's have gone til Halloween or started anywhere until May long weekend or June at best.

    So in the end, absolutely no excuse except for unwise / lazy businesses not having their decks in full operation through this return of summer this week.

  60. #60
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    ^city website... i lost the link already but it is under permits/licenses.
    www.decl.org

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  61. #61

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    Okay I'm wrong. Thanks for doing the research IanO!

    But that is no excuse for restaurants with an enclosed patio (ie. not sidewalk) to remain closed during the gorgeous warm spell.

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    two words, labour shortages. I would wager that the vast majority of reastaurants are understaffed in this city(explains the **** poor service in most places). having the patio open is not as easy as it would seem to outsiders but trust me its a pain in the *** more than anything(in these economic conditions at least)

    (and curse the spell check for saying thats not how to spell labour!)

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    After doing an evening drive around town, a quick look-see of the patios.

    Jasper Ave:
    - Joeys: closed and all the furniture is gone
    - Tin Palace: closed, furniture stacked up within
    - Kelly's Pub: open
    - Second Cup (all locations): open
    - Suede: not sure, furniture still up but nobody using them

    Whyte Ave:
    - Wunderbar: open
    - Hudsons: open
    - Elephant & Castle: closed and packed away
    - Julios: no patio tables but windows still open to street
    - O'Byrnes: open
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    does anyone know if theres any patios open around yet? on jasper or whyte. me and few friends want to go for a drink tonight and are hoping something will be open.
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

  66. #66

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    patio on Sherlocks on rice howard way was open by this time last year...not sure if they are yet this year.

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    I've seen the Obyrns patio open a few times.

  68. #68

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    Have not seen any patios open downtown as of today. However, it's a wee bit early because they don't usually open until (I believe) the beginning of May.
    We are all the same, just different...

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    ended up on o'brynes patio on whyte.
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Have not seen any patios open downtown as of today. However, it's a wee bit early because they don't usually open until (I believe) the beginning of May.
    again Edmonton.... WHY?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!

    you dont need plus 30 and shorts for patios.

    +5 and sun with a jacket is quite nice as well.

    so stupid
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    patio on Sherlocks on rice howard way was open by this time last year...not sure if they are yet this year.
    Sherlock's has been open most of the week.
    LA today, Athens tomorrow. I miss E-town.

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    i hate the excuse that many places use in that our season is too short for the effort... well if you put your stuff out in late june and close up sept long then yes.

    however, you put it out mid april and keep it out to late oct... perhaps with a space heater and bamn
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    Many patios on Whyte Ave were open and filled with people today, with one notable exception being Murietta's.

    Downtown?
    Second Cup on Jasper and 112 - open and busy
    Joey's - still closed
    Kelly's - open, with some people enjoying an outdoor brew
    Tin Palace - closed but the outdoor furniture's been set up
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Since you went to Whyte ave today, where do all of the motorcyclists hangout now that the Timmy's parking lot is closed?

    I've heard my fair share of rumblers today.

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    I was by Rice Howard Way recently and saw Sherlock Homes have a patio open and full of people. Nice to see people on RHW.
    ----

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    Keeping with their pattern of last year (closed on the May Long weekend), Original Joe's patio was not open on Saturday. Although, perhaps signaling a change in policy, the furniture was at least stacked outside ready to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Since you went to Whyte ave today, where do all of the motorcyclists hangout now that the Timmy's parking lot is closed?

    I've heard my fair share of rumblers today.
    I saw a bunch of them at the one along gateway just before united cycle (I think).
    you missed when time and life shook hands and said goodbye.

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    ^ That's good. Keep them away from the high pedestrian traffic on Whyte.

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    ^funny, I haven't heard of all that many pedestrian deaths or injuries from motorcycles. Why do you want to keep them away from Whyte, but cars, SUV's and trucks are perfectly a-otay?

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    ^ More like keep the loud mufflers off Whyte ave. so people can have an enjoyable afternoon.

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    Can we get back to patios, North Guy? There's enough topics on motorbikes, you don't need to divert this one.

    Downtown Joey's patio is locked up but they have their furniture out.

    I think the pattern here is the chain restaurants. Is it staffing? Is it because food gets colder quicker? Or are these restaurants (Earls, Joeys, Original Joes) so popular that they feel they can open their patios any old time they want because people will go there regardless? Is it still too chilly for the half-clad waitresses?
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 03-05-2009 at 10:49 PM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicycles View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Since you went to Whyte ave today, where do all of the motorcyclists hangout now that the Timmy's parking lot is closed?

    I've heard my fair share of rumblers today.
    I saw a bunch of them at the one along gateway just before united cycle (I think).
    correct... they are at the tim horton's on gateway beside that 'gateway' sign into strathcona.
    www.decl.org

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Can we get back to patios, North Guy? There's enough topics on motorbikes, you don't need to divert this one.

    Downtown Joey's patio is locked up but they have their furniture out.

    I think the pattern here is the chain restaurants. Is it staffing? Is it because food gets colder quicker? Or are these restaurants (Earls, Joeys, Original Joes) so popular that they feel they can open their patios any old time they want because people will go there regardless? Is it still too chilly for the half-clad waitresses?
    unfortunately, IMO, it is because 'it isnt patio season in edmonton until june'.

    i simply cannot still understand why people dont learn or recognize that in many other 'cold' cities people can wear a jacket on a sunny day and still enjoy being outside.
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  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Can we get back to patios, North Guy? There's enough topics on motorbikes, you don't need to divert this one.

    Downtown Joey's patio is locked up but they have their furniture out.

    I think the pattern here is the chain restaurants. Is it staffing? Is it because food gets colder quicker? Or are these restaurants (Earls, Joeys, Original Joes) so popular that they feel they can open their patios any old time they want because people will go there regardless? Is it still too chilly for the half-clad waitresses?
    Come on SDM, you know how some can tie even the most obscure thread into a rant about noise pollution. Why should a patio topic be off limits? . Now, on topic. I agree, there is something about enjoying a beverage in the outdoors (patio) when the temp. is less than ideal. Perhaps some gentle pursuation to the establishment's owner/manager? Or have others tried this? And the right half-clad waitress will be great even in a parka.....
    He who posteth too much, should moveth out of his parents basement and get a life.

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    It is staffing issues, especially for the bigger chain restaurants. A large patio like the Tin Palace's is like two sections for the serving staff.

    The staff schedule is made 1-2 weeks ahead. Yesterday the temperature was 23 C. A week ago there was blowing snow on the Sunday afternoon.




    p.s....Hope you are happy now that I've stayed on topic. Sheeesh!!!
    Last edited by North Guy66; 04-05-2009 at 10:48 AM.

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    "t is staffing issues, especially for the bigger chain restaurants. A large patio like the Tin Palace's is like two sections for the serving staff.

    The staff schedule is made 1-2 weeks ahead. Yesterday the temperature was 23 C. A week ago there was blowing snow on the Sunday afternoon."

    weakest excuse ever... make it happen... most other cities of the world do
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    The patio at O'Byrne's was chock full of people last Saturday, as I was having a couple of Keith's there. Strangely enough, the Earl's on Campus didn't have its patio set up yet at the time.

    I also know that the Brewster's in Oliver Square also has its patio open.
    Last edited by MikeK; 05-05-2009 at 11:39 AM.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    free press does not have it open

    rigelleto's nope

    martini's nope

    fluid dont think so

    Karma (105st/99ave) has a nice patio that is already OPEN though
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    ^Blue Plate had their massive, cough, patio open on the weekend.

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    ^haha...

    but to be honest i love when places have 2-3 tables out front... that is all you need. I wish more business owners did the same.
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    Earls on Campus will likely open their patio very soon... they've got their tables and chairs etc out ready and waiting.

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    Joeys downtown will open their patio in the next week or so. There was a staffing issue(death of a sr manager) that has made them decide to not open it as they are under enough stress dealing with the grief. The rest of the Joeys in the city opened their patios on Tuesday.

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    ^ Yes I noticed that the Joeys inner patio was open on Saturday. No tables on the outer patio yet.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Well it's too damn cold to be eating out on a patio today.

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    Tough it up. Just put on a jacket and order a gazpacho.

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    No thank you.

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    Yeah, I can never like gazpacho.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Guy66 View Post
    Tough it up. Just put on a jacket and order a gazpacho.
    exactly... i dont get why people need it to be +30 to be on a patio.

    case in point i was out with our s2000 club saturday and we hit up Milestone's in south edmonton common (i know i know).

    there was an hour wait for a table (six of us) but the entire patio was empty for some unknown reason.

    i asked if it was closed and it was not but no one had asked to sit outside?!?!?!?!?

    it was partially cloudy and about +15 and quite perfect with a light jacket on.

    i just dont understand why you would want to sit in a stuffy restaurant when you could be outside, even if you are looking at a sears home store and parking lot
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    I don't understand how anyone here feels they have the right to judge someone because they would rather eat inside... that's fantastic that you like to eat outside at zero degrees celsius, but you really have no right to judge others because they prefer to eat indoors. It just makes you sound like an *****.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    I don't understand how anyone here feels they have the right to judge someone because they would rather eat inside... that's fantastic that you like to eat outside at zero degrees celsius, but you really have no right to judge others because they prefer to eat indoors. It just makes you sound like an *****.

    i am not judging i am wondering why not??? Our summer is so short that i am surprised more people would not want to take advantage of the outdoors when eating...

    it seems as though we have an addiction to climate controlled spaces
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