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Thread: Restaurant Patio Discussion

  1. #201
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    is there even a place such as this in Edmonton now that RHW is in rebuild?


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  2. #202

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    ^ Aah, the Biermarkt on the Esplanade in Toronto. I've spent many a summer evening there.

    However, one of the best patios there is the Pour House on Dupont. It feels like another world there.

    BTW, at Moriarty's this aft. Their patio will be open in another month. Apparently they want to get it "just right".

  3. #203
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    ^i am partial to Markham street in the annex or queen west.
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  4. #204
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    ......... maybe soon to be on 104 ..............please !!?!

  5. #205
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    Noon hour downtown patio report:
    - Boston Pizza patio is open
    - Sobeys patio is closed
    - Axis Cafe has their garage door open
    - The Hat has their window open
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  6. #206

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    Pour House and Bier Markt are goor but they are not on major shopping/pedestrian streets... Black Bull on Queen is the best patio, great people watching, get to see all of the Queen W crazies go by. Other favs are the rooftop at Hemmingways or the patio at the Quail watching the Summerhill yuppies and the Rosedale matrons.

    Nothing like any of those here. Favourite rooftop patio here is Chilis, great view of downtown, but they don't use it very well (closes early, no heat lamps etc). No great sidewalk patios here though. Two Rooms Café patio seems like a decent location if it wasn't for the small size.

  7. #207

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    ^ LOL, actually thought of the Black Bull. Hemmingways - great patio (particularly the north one), lousy food.

    More Chili's type patios here for sure.

  8. #208
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    ^^ two rooms is great indeed.

    I cannot understand the whole Chili's patio thing... I too have been there on a nice day when it was closed early or simply not open. They do a great job on the main floor with a small patio, but why not take more advantage of the 'up and out'.

    I wish we had more rooftop patios, something i truly miss from my trips to NYC/Tor
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    business owners should know by now that there are only 2 seasons in edmonton. and where the snow and slush disappear - OPEN THE D#MN PATIOS!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ice Dupree View Post
    See, I'm more looking for a patio that is fenced allowing me to secure my pooch to the outside fence, and pull a table up next to him.
    Hopefully you're a responsible pet owner and have a concept of other people's enjoyment of a nice day, because I personally really dislike it when people do this. Not because I have a problem with dogs, I love dogs. But because most dogs just cannot sit there quietly without disturbing the other several dozen people trying to enjoy the day.

  11. #211
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    ^i say the same thing about kids, people on phones, and those who must update their excel files whilst enjoying a java.
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    I've seen people tie up their dogs just outside the Hudson's patio downtown on the grass....seemed to work well...they aren't "on" the patio, but just a few feet away in plain sight...

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    Ya, I wouldn't be bringing my dog out if he were a nuisance. He's pretty good at putting smiles on the faces of passersby, and is as laidback a dude as you'd care to meet.

    We'll check out Hudson's and see if we can dispell some stereotypes this weekend...

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    Yup like I said a nice puppy brightens my day just seeing them hanging out happy and content. But an obnoxious one, argh...

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    Just had lunch at Free Press on 104st... been above 20 the past what 4-5 days... not a seat empty inside and a line up being turned away.

    So i ask, 'why don't you have the patio out? not only is it beautiful out, but you could have sat those other 10-15 people'.

    Their reply and i quote....

    'it will be in a month or so but it is a pain to set it up, take it down, set it up, take it down'

    very unfortunate

    won't be back until a patio is up
    Last edited by IanO; 20-04-2010 at 02:46 PM.
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  16. #216
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    I took a walk down 100 Ave at lunchtime - patios for Allegro and Good Earth were open and full.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Just had lunch at Free Press on 104st... been above 20 the past what 4-5 days... not a seat empty inside and a line up being turned away.

    So i ask, 'why don't you have the patio out? not only is it beautiful out, but you could have sat those other 10-15 people'.

    Their reply and i quote....

    'it will be in a month or so but it is a pain to set it up, take it down, set it up, take it down'

    very unfortunate

    won't be back until a patio is up
    Wow, unbelievable. That kind of attitude from restaurateurs is SO far away from what it takes to be one of the world's top five mid-sized cities...

  18. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Their reply and i quote....

    'it will be in a month or so but it is a pain to set it up, take it down, set it up, take it down'
    I don't get it.

    Does that mean it will somehow be less of "a pain" to have a patio a month from now?

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    patio season started a little early this yr

    ----

  20. #220
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    the pint on 109th has their patio open

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    ^^BTW, I never seem to go north on 104 street, but has Bistro Praha reopened yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    ^^BTW, I never seem to go north on 104 street, but has Bistro Praha reopened yet?
    Not until Icon II is done.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  23. #223
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    Enjoyed an Uptown Turkey Press on the Sobeys patio at lunch. There were 3 tables. I thought occupying a patio table would attract other people to it (because people are sheep), but apparently a small breeze is a deterrant because the indoor eating area was full. It wasn't until a half-hour passed until another couple took a table.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  24. #224
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    ^yup... apparently we need calm winds, +20 or above, the moon to be in the SW sky, and the oilers in the playoffs.
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  25. #225
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    In Montreal right now and have seen streets with more patios than all of Edmonton I think........ in April.... with a cool breeze.... with chairs/tables they have to set up and take down EACH NIGHT.

    argh
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    ^the sign of a true civilized society!
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

  27. #227
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    Oliver Patio Patrol report for tonight:
    * Second Cup (Allard Block) - open and in use
    * Joey Tomatoes - might open soon, the tables are out
    * Kellys pub - tables are out, but not used
    * Rose Bowl Pizza - tables are out, but not used
    * Druid - garage windows open on 116 St side
    * Suede - tables are out, but not used
    * Tin Palace - half of it open and in use

    Didn't see what the situation is in downtown proper. Last I saw, the Second Cup at the CWB tower had the rims for the glass barrier up but no glass and no tables.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    I just got back from the UK yesterday, and I can tell you that people there will quite often use outdoor patios outside pubs and restaurants, even when it's overcast and just 11°C outside. I've had the pleasure of stepping outside with a nice pint of British beer in hand.

    Frankly, it seems that too many people here in Edmonton won't eat or drink outside unless it's blazing hot outside. We're too much of an "indoor" society here.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    ^ You should check out the Empress Ale House patio. Even at +5 or +6, people sit outside and drink their pints.
    Almost always open to debate...

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidnorwoodink View Post
    ^ You should check out the Empress Ale House patio. Even at +5 or +6, people sit outside and drink their pints.
    Yeah, I haven't been there for quite some time though.

    What I said was a bit exaggerated in (an undetectable online) sarcastic sense.
    Last edited by MikeK; 12-05-2010 at 12:35 PM.
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  31. #231
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    Second Cup at CWB tower - the glass partition is up, but no tables
    I saw some other patios in the downtown core open and in service.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  32. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidnorwoodink View Post
    ^ You should check out the Empress Ale House patio. Even at +5 or +6, people sit outside and drink their pints.
    or +1.... or -3

    I was out there more than a few times in jan/feb with jacket and glove but it was glorious
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  33. #233
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    The downtown Joey Tomatoes patio is finally open and it's packed! In fact, all downtown patios I saw today were open and busy.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  34. #234
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    ^indeed they were....

    I just do not understand though why Japanese Village on 104st leaves its giant market facing patio closed...yet everyone else has theirs open and full.
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  35. #235
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    Other current offenders are the Starbucks at Jasper/109 St and Jasper/101 St.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  36. #236
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    ^101 does not typically have one if ever...109st does though. My bucks on 105st/99 has had its patio open for over a month now.
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  37. #237
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    Rigoletto's nice shaded patio is now open... good to see.
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  38. #238
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    Some spotty patio usage today.
    Joeys, O'Byrne's, Elephant & Castle - busy.
    Tin Palace, Campus Earls, Kelly's Pub - dead.
    Julios on Whyte - no outdoor seating but the big windows opened into the place.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  39. #239
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    ^pint patio during hockey game busier than inside.

    Prohibition patio dead, which meant we had it all:>
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  40. #240
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    Another day, another I cannot seem to figure out these people called Edmontonians.

    I feel like 'Traveling Mac' from Fraggle Rock stumbling upon some new creatures and trying to observe them.

    Yesterday I was at the Free Press for lunch, packed inside, not a single group on the 10-12 person patio.

    We sat outside and it was spectacular, light breeze, perfect temperature, warm sun rays.

    Can someone explain this is how it is? During the summer, the patio should be PACKED with the inside your 'last resort'.

    me confused
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  41. #241
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    ^Wind. Ceaseless wind.
    Sun. Bright even if partially cloudy (altitude?)
    Dust.

    These are all reasons people may not want to sit alfresco.

  42. #242
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    ^like winter. You can sit inside from late Oct thru April....

    A little breeze is pleasant, sun is warming and a refreshing break from AC offices. Dust? come on now.
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  43. #243
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    OK, one more try then: the sun and the wind and the dust (oh yeah, it IS there, except on very moist days) become the more annoying the more one is out of shape.

  44. #244
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    out of shape?
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  45. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO
    out of shape?
    Uh-huh. Or something.

    Look, I like patios in various cities as much as anyone else. Some of my most mellow-fun-etc. memories consist of sitting on a patio sipping whatever.

    But in Edmonton I never go on the patio. Why? Well, perhaps I've given away too much about myself...

  46. #246
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    At the Three Banana today at lunch. The restaurant was full on one family was on the patio. Again, not sure why but it was a nice afternoon and, yes, I sat inside with everyone else. Must be the way most born and raised Edmontonians are conditioned.

  47. #247
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    ^ludicrous.

    I just do not get it
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  48. #248
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    It's a person choice whether you agree or not is a waste of time, I guess some people don't want to sit outside.

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    ^my real point is that our 'comfortable' outdoor season is relatively short, why not enjoy it? It is so much nicer to be outside than in a climate controlled environment. Not to mention you see and experience so much more around you.

    The other part of this is that when people are outside on patios, cities feel so much nicer, warmer, friendlier, and more active. Edmonton needs an absolute ton of that injected.
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    Went for a walk through Oliver on a warm fall night.
    Joey Tomatoes' patio is open and in use, but it seemed there were more people inside than outside.
    Ditto for the Second Cup a few doors down.
    Earls Tin Palace - patio seating still there but didn't look open.
    Overtime - ditto
    Rose Bowl Pizza - patio closed.
    Silician Pizza Kitchen - patio closed.
    Kellys Pub - patio closed but patio doors open.
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    What a beautiful day to sit in a patio.

    oooops!

  52. #252

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    Walked by Sigma the other day - "patio closed for the season". What season is that, summer?
    "A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines." - Frank Lloyd Wright

  53. #253
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    Was Sigma even open this summer?
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Thanksgiving marks the start of hibernation season in Edmonton – See you all next mosquito season spring.

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    ^^They opened in June or July according to Metro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Was Sigma even open this summer?
    Yes. I've had a few drinks there.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    The fire off Rice Howard Way a few years ago destroyed what used to be a block of vibrant patios that many people enjoyed and were used throughout the summer season. Amazing how a landscape can change so quickly and die off. I miss those patios.
    We are all the same, just different...

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    Hopefully we'll see some great new restaurants/cafes, lounges, etc once all the repairs and the new addition is completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOA View Post
    ^^They opened in June or July according to Metro.
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Was Sigma even open this summer?
    Yes. I've had a few drinks there.
    Thanks, folks. I remember going by there a few times this summer, especially during Taste of Edmonton, and saw no signs of life at Sigma inside.
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    I had no idea the place was open... anytime I walk by there it looks closed.

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    ^ Same here, which only makes their patio situation all the more ridiculous. Put people out there and let passersby know you exist, let alone that you're open.
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    Now here's what patios are like in Europe. This is in Maastricht, Netherlands.

    Last edited by 24karat; 15-10-2010 at 06:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 24karat View Post
    Now here's what patios are like in Europe. This is in Maastricht, Netherlands.

    Different culture/mentality/priorities – damn, that picture makes me feel homesick.

  64. #264

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    ^Not to forget massive temperature differences even in the spring and fall.
    Mind, I've got to say, don't they all look wonderfully happy sitting outside
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    ^sure, but different culture is very true.

    I have been to MANY a place where the patio was either dead or barely full on a beautiful day with the inside lined up.

    To each there own, but al fresco for me.
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  66. #266

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    yet given the opportunity, lots of people will sit outside. Case in point, 2nd cup in west edm. They only have asmall patio area and the noise of 170 st is right there, yet most of the outdoor tables were being used at noon time.
    Edmontonian and proud of it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^sure, but different culture is very true.

    I have been to MANY a place where the patio was either dead or barely full on a beautiful day with the inside lined up.

    To each there own, but al fresco for me.
    The way Edmonton works, it's pretty clear rooftop and balcony patios are where it's at. For whatever reasons. That's what you guys should be pushing for more of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abaka View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^sure, but different culture is very true.

    I have been to MANY a place where the patio was either dead or barely full on a beautiful day with the inside lined up.

    To each there own, but al fresco for me.
    The way Edmonton works, it's pretty clear rooftop and balcony patios are where it's at. For whatever reasons. That's what you guys should be pushing for more of.
    Why would that make any difference? The culture is just different here. I get the impression that most establishments see servicing a patio as at best an inconvenience and look for the first opportunity to whisk their patrons back indoors. As for the patrons, they seem at best indifferent to the whole alfresco experience. (plus from what I've seen, Edmontonians can't wait to be back indoors - basking in the warm, reassuring glow of the establishments wall to wall TVs)

  69. #269

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    "long time" lurker, 1st post; forgive any transgressions: the topic is a current interest of mine and i strongly recommend reading jane jacobs' "the death and life of great american cities" to see where i'm coming at this from right now.

    andy, i would guess that the difference is proximity to the street. uncomfortable sidewalks are an endemic part of edmonton and a result of (umm, cancerous?) design philosophy. rant:{ it's a very common thing among many cities i would think. the highway building, the freedom of the personal automobile. so now we zone life into death; populations are isolating into faux cottage communities without community, with personal transportation being the overwheling preference, and commerce is now corralled into uninteresting parking lot islands all full of the same stores that are completely uninhabitable outside of a vehicle. it's a madness that was sold to us a while ago and has now disfigured our sense of what urban life can and should be. there is a place for the cottage, but it's not in the city (and it probably shouldn't be all that close to it either. villages?) } tl;dr: vibrancy is hard from inside a car.

    anyways, the sidewalks here are generally too narrow for public life to flourish, and where it does try to show up it's faced with screamingly fast vehicular traffic usually bound by no more than a row of parked cars. larger sidewalks with windbreaks and slower traffic would make patios at street level more comfortable (and many other activities as well). all those wonderful photos of packed patios have huge sidewalks (by my eye) and little in the way of vehicular traffic.
    to avoid the discomfort of our sidewalks we build balconies and rooftop patios. this is a disconnect with other forms of sidewalk life. what's worse is that due to our abundance of space and low density the restaurants that do risk patios are usually so far apart from each other that no critical mass of interesting activity is created. RHW had good density for edmonton, and there are several areas that should be better (104 St., Whyte, etc.) These areas are restricted by smallish sidewalks (two rooms could bring more in if it was more comfortable. it's great out there, for sure, but it could be much better).
    Small sidewalk size reflects a preference for vehicles. Not so interesting.
    Density of activity is the critical variable and it feeds itself. People will fill patios in edmonton if they are comfortable and sufficiently interesting (read, people around). Ian, I resonate with your frustration. If we can identify what works, we can densify and multiply it. Choose the busier areas to start with. I love what 104 St. can become. Am I wrong?

    Keep talking to the businesses, and try to talk to the managers/owners. We're quite uninformed on these issues imo. (sorry for the length and thanks for reading)

  70. #270

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    CareyL...

    Nicely done. please post more often.

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    CareyL - thanks for that and yes, a necessary read indeed.

    I hope you can inject more into our discussions on urban design and built form.
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  72. #272

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    a quick note here: ian, you mentioned a while ago that the city should be focusing more strongly on encouraging densification of the true downtown core (not to alienate other downtown districts, but...). 109th to 97th and north to 104th ave or something. this, i believe, is our best (and possibly only) chance for reaching that critical mass that sparks some kind of combustion to drive the city. that excitement can power development all across the city if it's vibrant enough. the entertainment district in the 109st area could be much more vibrant and interesting, but in truth it's a little uncomfortable and quite dingy. oil city is blight, plain and simple. horrible block. that new shoppers (and all new shoppers... whyte and 109th anyone?) are infuriating. those windows!!! nooooo!

    at least "they" didn't insist on devloping the saveon square on 109th entirely recessed from the street. imagine that place with only parking lot along the borders of jasper and 109th (looking at you futureshop area).

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    Just called... EMPRESS' patio is snow free and OPEN for those interested!!!
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    ^good to know. Looks like Empress will get my business next time I'm on the Ave.



    I'd love to see a local watering hole invest in a handful of these for their patio over the winter.

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    ^yup... not rocket science.

    A retractable awning and 2 of those can cover a large area.
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    that's the table-top version, but yes. As evidenced by the Boston Pizza tent on Churchill Square, people will drink outdoors if given the opportunity. Especially when the option to go inside is present.

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    ^I love Empress for this this time of the year... one of the few! Why not sit outside with a cold one in a jacket and gloves.... you would be surprised at how warm the sun is now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^yup... not rocket science.

    A retractable awning and 2 of those can cover a large area.

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    ^God better learn.
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    From the Bistro Praha article... ARGH

    "Parking will be an issue, but then parking was always an issue along Rice Howard Way. There’s no deck at the new place, but then this is Edmonton we’re talking about."

    Read more: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Belov...#ixzz1DOyfP0E3
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    My letter to the writer of that piece:

    Richard,

    Thoroughly enjoyed your article and cannot wait to go back, but I was very disappointed in your attitude about 'how this is Edmonton' so why the need for a patio.

    I dont fault them for taking that location and it looks very well done, but to insinuate that outdoor spaces and patios should be forgotten about is rather unfortunate.

    Some of the best patio memories were lunches at Nikitas or Praha or a drink on a nice evening.

    There is good opportunity for them to put a bistro table out or two in the warmer months, whether they do or not.

    Our city seems to be insatiably satisfied by malls, climate control, and trips to Mexico, when there is great opportunity to enjoy the shoulder (even if short) seasons along with our sun drenched summers outside, engaging streets with life, and dare I say... making Edmonton feel interesting to those who live here.

    But hey, it's only Edmonton.

    Sincerely,

    Ian
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    what also bothered me about that article was that he said the new location is "a couple of blocks away" when it's really just around the corner.

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    not to mention that there are 1000s of parking stalls in the immediate vicinity... like oh i dunno at scotia place
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    yeah, but that's not free, so clearly it doesn't count.

    /end sarcasm

    I'm also pretty choked that there was absolutely no mention of LRT access. If we want to build this system we need to promote the system.
    Last edited by Alex.L; 09-02-2011 at 06:37 PM.

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    I drove by the renovated Hudsons @ Whyte Ave and Gateway. Someone please tell me they didn't get rid of the patio!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    That would be a shame.
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    Some patios were open on Whyte Ave today - O'Byrnes, Second Cup @ 107 St, Elephant & Castle and Julios. I'm sure Empress Ale House would have theirs open, but it looks like they're temporarily closed due to the fire next door.

    Downtown - nada. Although I did notice that the Starbucks at the Quest has a patio almost ready to open.
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 10-04-2011 at 05:34 PM.
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  88. #288

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    The Starbucks patio at 105 st and 99 ave. is open.

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    Pint, earls both open downtown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Pint, earls both open downtown.
    Really? I drove by the Tin Palace this afternoon and it looked closed.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    lots of patios open on Whyte yesterday too

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Pint, earls both open downtown.
    Really? I drove by the Tin Palace this afternoon and it looked closed.
    I had a friend say it was open, but I have been out of town so not 100%... although the tables and chairs are all out and look ready.
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    Any patios downtown people have spotted as of yet other than what's mentioned?
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    Second Cup in Allard Block
    Both Tin Palace and Joey look like they're slowly preparing to open.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    I drove by the renovated Hudsons @ Whyte Ave and Gateway. Someone please tell me they didn't get rid of the patio!
    No, the patio at Hudson's on Whyte is still up and was open last time I checked, which was earlier this week on Tuesday evening. It wasn't being used very much, despite the nice weather, probably because it was in a shaded spot and also that NHL playoff games were on for both the Habs and the Canucks.

    I also had a chance to enjoy the rooftop patio at The Black Dog later that same evening. The heating lamps were on, so it wasn't bad and several other people used it as well.
    Last edited by MikeK; 28-04-2011 at 01:47 PM.
    Is there hope for Edmonton? Yes!!! The Oilers? Wait and see.

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    Reminds me of Jan Gehl telling us about how Copenhagen used to think of it being a 2 month patio city but now most are open 8-10 months with awnings, heaters, and even blankets for guests.

    but no, let's stay us in our climate controlled environments.
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    Moriarty's was prepping yesterday
    Sherlock's was open already (no Sh$tt ! )
    Still waiting for the Arlington site to be reborn .......

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    ^I sat on Sherlock's almost a month ago... they get it. As does black dog and empress among a very few others.
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  99. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Reminds me of Jan Gehl telling us about how Copenhagen used to think of it being a 2 month patio city but now most are open 8-10 months with awnings, heaters, and even blankets for guests.

    but no, let's stay us in our climate controlled environments.

    Was in both Paris and Berlin last month an observed plenty of patios with awnings, heaters, and even blanket. It was quite civilized.

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    Tin palace patio is open. Joeys patio looks like its almost open.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

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