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Thread: ...and who says you cannot have "parties" in civic politics....

  1. #1
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    Default ...and who says you cannot have "parties" in civic politics....

    So...is this simply party politics without the party...or collusion as alleged...

    ...and yes...before the zealots start saying this is a Calgary news story....it can happen in Edmonton too...

    Quote Originally Posted by Global Calgary

    CALGARY- It is a rare glimpse into some of the backroom politics going on in Calgary, ahead of October’s municipal election.

    Global News has obtained a recording of a November meeting hosted by Cal Wenzel, founder of Shane Homes. In the video, Wenzel presents a plan to defeat select members of city council who are perceived to be anti-development.

    Some in the housing industry have been clashing with the city over growth and who should be responsible for infrastructure.

    The tape

    In the video, Cal Wenzel tells the group, apparently made up of about 150 industry leaders, that while Mayor Nenshi is unbeatable, that may not be the case for other council members.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/502394/exc...-city-council/
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  3. #3

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    It wouldnt surprise me if this has already happened in Edmonton ya know
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
    facebook.com/BrothersGrimMusic

  4. #4

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    That video is jaw dropping..
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  5. #5
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    I don't really see how that's a big deal, or a big surprise. Moneyed interests have always attempted to influence politics to reflect their best interests, whether they be property developers, financiers, or organized labor. In another thread it's mentioned how the teachers in Alberta are a big part of the reason why Redford got elected, because she promised to restore funding and build new schools. How is that much different?

  6. #6

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    If you're interested

    All of the Edmonton candidates from the last Municipal election have their campaign donation disclosures on line.

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...tatements.aspx

    Makes for an interesting read

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  7. #7

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    Edmonton had this last election with the Envision Edmonton group.

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    During the 1995 munipical election I was working as a subcontractor at a city-affiliated firm. There was a strident unionist type on my floor, and he had a list of preferred candidates for the union to back. The usual names were listed...Reimer, Gomberg, Mason, etc. I made note of this and distributed to my colleagues as a don't vote list!
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I don't really see how that's a big deal, or a big surprise. Moneyed interests have always attempted to influence politics to reflect their best interests, whether they be property developers, financiers, or organized labor. In another thread it's mentioned how the teachers in Alberta are a big part of the reason why Redford got elected, because she promised to restore funding and build new schools. How is that much different?
    Its the language that he uses... "The Dark Side" was one phrase that got me. It's clear these men are simply used to getting their way all the time.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Edmonton had this last election with the Envision Edmonton group.
    You might want to read through the information on the link before making up your own mind that "envision" was the only or largest player in the game Mr. Oilers.

    They were certainly not the only special interest or industry group in the game.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  11. #11
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    URGE = Urban Reform Group of Edmonton. Long since passed on - but actively supported civic election candidates.
    ... gobsmacked

  12. #12

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    ^ I now firmly believe that we need to get rid of corp donations in all levels of gov't and cap private donations at something like $500 dollars.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    You might want to read through the information on the link before making up your own mind that "envision" was the only or largest player in the game Mr. Oilers.
    Envision Edmonton was merely the first one that came to mind off the top of my head.

  14. #14
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    In my opinion, it makes me sick what the rich think they can do just because they have money. This video is eye opening for sure and thankfully made available to the general public but at the same time, I am not so shocked. There are people bought in politics all the time. It needs to stop.

  15. #15

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    The only reason this has come out is because Calgary council, lead by Nenshi, have had the guts to say no to sprawl. If you look at recent decisions of Edmonton council, like trying to annex more sprawl land (in conflict with the municiple growth plan that is not being implemented at all), its pretty obvious the old boys developer club is still in control in COE. I'd like to see candidates state they won't accept developer campaign donations, and promises of future jobs, I'd vote for such councilors ahead of others regardless of their politics.
    Last edited by moahunter; 23-04-2013 at 06:26 PM.

  16. #16

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    ^ Calgary is still gowing out and will continue to do so.... What this is about is the fact that Calgary is trying to enforce a land use policy and density targets on the region. Targets which bodies akin to Parkland county don't like...

    What you see in Calgary isn't just about Calgary... its about the entire region.

    As for Edmonton wanting land... Edmonton needs land for industrial tax base.. You think all that land around the airport is for Edmonton's next Premier Airport side living.. give it a rest.

    It's just like the Mayor said.. The county doesn't have the money to build all the overpasses and LRT in this growing area. What are we going to let them do.. build on our doorstep and use us to subsidize their low taxes.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 23-04-2013 at 06:29 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  17. #17

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    ^when was the last time COE denied a suburb in the city? Nenshi and his council are doing that, and sprawl speculators are furious they can't buy his council off, like they do in other cities. By the way, infill, TOD and other urban development is booming in Calgary like never before, just compare quarters to east village. Subsidizing sprawl by always saying 'yes' is just dumb for everyone except the old boys club.

  18. #18

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    If you're in municipal politics its pretty much expected that you need to get in good with the developers. They're some of the only people funding campaigns with significant money.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

  19. #19

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    ^it speaks volumes about Nenshi that he was able to do it with a grassroots internet savy campaign. He is the most popular mayor in Canada, he will be even more popular now. If he wants it, he is a shoe in to be premier or perhaps even PM one day, a true leader who is changing municiple politics and dramatically changing the way his city is developing. Fingers crossed a Nenshi, and supporting team, people not beholden to the big money interest groups/old boys club, steps forward in Edmonton, there is no reason why not.
    Last edited by moahunter; 23-04-2013 at 07:14 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I don't really see how that's a big deal, or a big surprise. Moneyed interests have always attempted to influence politics to reflect their best interests, whether they be property developers, financiers, or organized labor. In another thread it's mentioned how the teachers in Alberta are a big part of the reason why Redford got elected, because she promised to restore funding and build new schools. How is that much different?
    Its the language that he uses... "The Dark Side" was one phrase that got me. It's clear these men are simply used to getting their way all the time.

    Really...


    'cause I am seeing hyperbolic language like that on C2E and in other areas all the time...and they are levied at those who may not be so super rich...but there are some factions here in Edmonton that are getting used to having their way all the time...and they are NOT developers...

    ...it is not just developers that vote in blocks...or lobby people to get out and vote...or call candidates evil..or the dark side..or vilify them and rally troops to vote their preferred candidate out...

    ...while money plays a factor...do not even excuse for a second other groups that are using other tactics...bullying...fear mongering...misrepresentation...
    President and CEO - Airshow.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I don't really see how that's a big deal, or a big surprise. Moneyed interests have always attempted to influence politics to reflect their best interests, whether they be property developers, financiers, or organized labor. In another thread it's mentioned how the teachers in Alberta are a big part of the reason why Redford got elected, because she promised to restore funding and build new schools. How is that much different?
    Its the language that he uses... "The Dark Side" was one phrase that got me. It's clear these men are simply used to getting their way all the time.

    Really...


    'cause I am seeing hyperbolic language like that on C2E and in other areas all the time...and they are levied at those who may not be so super rich...but there are some factions here in Edmonton that are getting used to having their way all the time...and they are NOT developers...

    ...it is not just developers that vote in blocks...or lobby people to get out and vote...or call candidates evil..or the dark side..or vilify them and rally troops to vote their preferred candidate out...

    ...while money plays a factor...do not even excuse for a second other groups that are using other tactics...bullying...fear mongering...misrepresentation...
    So urbanistas on a messageboard have as much sway as developers?
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  22. #22
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    ...if you think that there are only urbanistas on here...

    My point was more about the language used (Dark Side) and other lobby groups that seem to spring into action and demand things when their pet projects or ideals are somehow insulted.

    You don't have to be a rich developer to influence council. Remember, they rely on votes.
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  23. #23

    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...
    You don't have to be a rich developer to influence council. Remember, they rely on votes.
    Votes that some rich developers (a better word per Nenshi is "creeps"), per the video, do try to buy through donations, the votes of those Councilors. The sadest thing about the video is a former mayor even helping them. The sooner Councilors stop taking donations from developers, the sooner we will have democracy. Until then, in E town, what sprawl developer / specuator who develops in Edmonton says, goes. The municiple plan by urban planners working for COE is just toilet paper, it will never be implemented (eg by restricting permitts in accordance with the modest percentages it targets).

    Meanwhile, in Calgary, thanks to Nenshi and his Council team, its a different story. With money not able to easily be invested in Calgary suburban development, urban development is rapidly accelerating / taking its place (even while bordering towns sprawl, mostly at their cost, albeit Nenshi is trying to stop). Etown is sadly falling behind, but its not to late for the rot to be removed. Where are you Global Edmonton? Time for a similar story.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-04-2013 at 09:53 AM.

  24. #24

  25. #25

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    Wenzel says he is worried about the city running out of land ready for houses. He believes no one at the city understands the seriousness of the situation.
    He adds most people still want to live in single-family homes and trying to push people into the inner city is not the way to go.

    He doesn’t like Rollin Stanley, the city’s planning guru, saying only two subdivisions will get started in the next ten years.

    The home builder believes if things don’t change he could go outside the city to places like Okotoks and Airdrie.
    http://m.calgarysun.com/2013/04/23/s...to-buy-council

    That's the root of the issue. Instead of spending money "training" new councilors, how about:

    1. Developing in ajoining towns (which is getting to be a tougher sell due to the commute and competition from urban developers), or
    2. Doing urban developments - infill, or higher density.

    More and more developers in Calgary are getting with the program and choosing 2. Its no coincidence that the holes in Calgary are finally filling (eg east village), the same would happen in Edmonton (eg quarters) with similar leadership / implenentation of plans, not just ignoring them.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-04-2013 at 12:08 PM.

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^when was the last time COE denied a suburb in the city? Nenshi and his council are doing that, and sprawl speculators are furious they can't buy his council off, like they do in other cities. By the way, infill, TOD and other urban development is booming in Calgary like never before, just compare quarters to east village. Subsidizing sprawl by always saying 'yes' is just dumb for everyone except the old boys club.
    Comparing Calgary to Edmonton is not a direct comparison given the make up of the region... The Capital Region has said no to low density subdivisions in the past and will continue to do so.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  27. #27
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    I think corporate donations are stupid (don't know if they're even allowed), but private donations? sure. If a developer wants to donate his money, fine. We're all allowed to do it for whatever reason we want. He'll do it for financial gain for his company, we can do it for financial gain as well (new LRT increasing value of homes, arena increasing value of condos, grant programs, etC) or for non financial gains (new libraries/parks, etc).

    This is no different than people banding together to try and save a small airport, or trying to get a new arena built, or an LRT system, or getting lower taxes. You're allowed to strategize and plan these things. As long as everyone plays by the rules, it's fine.

  28. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Wenzel says he is worried about the city running out of land ready for houses. He believes no one at the city understands the seriousness of the situation.
    He adds most people still want to live in single-family homes and trying to push people into the inner city is not the way to go.

    He doesn’t like Rollin Stanley, the city’s planning guru, saying only two subdivisions will get started in the next ten years.

    The home builder believes if things don’t change he could go outside the city to places like Okotoks and Airdrie.
    http://m.calgarysun.com/2013/04/23/s...to-buy-council

    That's the root of the issue. Instead of spending money "training" new councilors, how about:

    1. Developing in ajoining towns (which is getting to be a tougher sell due to the commute and competition from urban developers), or
    2. Doing urban developments - infill, or higher density.

    More and more developers in Calgary are getting with the program and choosing 2. Its no coincidence that the holes in Calgary are finally filling (eg east village), the same would happen in Edmonton (eg quarters) with similar leadership / implenentation of plans, not just ignoring them.
    Again you cannot compare EDM and Calgary as being one and the same. There are no where near as many regional players. Calgary receives huge tax dollars from a strong Central business district where Edmonton receives NO MONEY from the large industrial players that surround it.

    Edmonton has a plan to promote 25% of it's growth within it's existing boarders. but anyway you slice it the city will grow out as well. you can't be one of the fastest growing regions in North America with out growing bigger.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  29. #29

    Default Nenshi wins in Court

    Good for him, nice to see a mayor standing up to an "old boy" bully trying to dictate with his money, city policies:

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...in-legal-costs

  30. #30
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    ^ He hasn't really won yet, there is still a trial scheduled. A good example of the need for reform of defamation laws and the civil court system though - this matter never should have gotten this far.

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