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Thread: Apple experts - iMac vs Mac Pro?

  1. #1

    Default Apple experts - iMac vs Mac Pro?

    I'm thinking of upgrading my iMac and started to look at the Mac Pro tower. Your thoughts and experience please.


    I know the Mac Pro is now well behind in the technology compared to the new iMacs but the idea of going back to an easily expandable tower is appealing to me in terms of being able to greatly lengthen the lifespan of the unit. I just can't see myself replacing desktops near as often as I have in the past - especially with Apple products. (We've had our iMac for years longer than we ever did with PCs. )

    Also, the iMac is beautifully compact by itself and we loved that but now I find that I've got a number of backup drives sitting around on the desk cluttering up the place - so I'm thinking, why not plug them all into an out of sight tower case.

    Also I know:

    An announcement of a new and exciting Mac Pro is supposedly to come later this year.

    The current Mac Pros have neither USB3.0 nor Thunderbolt and apparently can't use Thunderbolt
    displays (meaning I can't buy the better display in advance of a future need).

    On some speed tests the iMac beats the older Mac Pro designs.

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    Are you happy with the iMac and just need an upgrade? Stay with an iMac. Do you need the drive/gfx card/memory expansion abilities of a tower and have times where it's a server/renderer and needs to stay on over long periods? Tower. Is your comp a typical home office machine? iMac. Does it generate a substantial income? Tower.

  3. #3

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    Just like the idea of flexibility for future photo and video editing and buying more time between whole system upgrades.

    Also plan to run an emulator to run software like Quantrix. Not a high demand item by itself.

  4. #4

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    Computers don't need to be upgraded as much as they used to.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

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    With a tower you will definitely get lasting power. I have a new souped-up machine at work, but at home I still have a 2006 tower that works really well for large photo and broadcast quality HD video editing. Storage is never an issue with 4 internal drives, which can be mirrored too, and multiple drives can mean a Windows and Linux boot-up as well. I've never had a problem with any hardware but if something arises I know I can replace a component quickly and easily. An iMac may have to be taken in to a shop - furthering downtime, delaying work, enjoyment,etc. Also, the resale price among Mac users tends to stay high. Last year I was offered a surprising sum for the home machine when thinking of upgrading myself... simply because it's so upgraded, it's a tower that will basically "never die," and is very good for specific and general uses. If this sounds appealing, purchase a tower, throw some extra 3rd party RAM into it, and a couple years down maybe replace the stock gfx card. iMacs have really nice screens and are powerful as well, but for upgrading and lasting reasons I have a tower both at work and at home.

  6. #6

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    The Mac Pro is slated for a refresh in the third quarter, what the specs will be is anyones guess, but these machines are primarily used in music, photo and video editing, as well as severs these days. Handy for upgrading, but overkill for most folks.

    In our office we have a bank of Mac Minis as our servers, and run iMacs everywhere else. If you decide to buy a new iMac and go for the 21 inch, note that memory is not upgradeable, you should probably max out when you purchase it. The 27 inch machines are memory upgradeable.

    We do find the fusion drives in the Macs quite slick, with the combination of disc and solid state storage. It makes the stuff we run most often quite fast.

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    Get an iMac with a fusion drive or solid state drive, upgraded processor and graphics card, leave the ram at 8gb and get a future upgrade when needed. Be sure to order 27" model as these have upgradable ram options after purchase whereas the 21" models are not upgradable after purchase for some strange reason. If you really want a 21" model, then upgrade ram at time of purchase.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by republicofgarneau View Post
    The Mac Pro is slated for a refresh in the third quarter, what the specs will be is anyones guess, but these machines are primarily used in music, photo and video editing, as well as severs these days. Handy for upgrading, but overkill for most folks.

    In our office we have a bank of Mac Minis as our servers, and run iMacs everywhere else. If you decide to buy a new iMac and go for the 21 inch, note that memory is not upgradeable, you should probably max out when you purchase it. The 27 inch machines are memory upgradeable.

    We do find the fusion drives in the Macs quite slick, with the combination of disc and solid state storage. It makes the stuff we run most often quite fast.
    Thanks, I didn't know about the 21" limitation on RAM.

    Overkill in day one is usually just barely sufficient in 3 or 4 years time. But then, usually loads of new tech by year 3 or 4 - like today's fusion drives and thunderbolt. However I'm not sure if I'll be keen to replace a whole desktop in just three or four or five years time for such incremental gains. It's always such a hassle the benefits have to be significant. Makes one wonder what the future is for desktops... Most people will just need to use tablets and laptops and operate out of the cloud.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by DTrobotnik View Post
    With a tower you will definitely get lasting power. I have a new souped-up machine at work, but at home I still have a 2006 tower that works really well for large photo and broadcast quality HD video editing. Storage is never an issue with 4 internal drives, which can be mirrored too, and multiple drives can mean a Windows and Linux boot-up as well. I've never had a problem with any hardware but if something arises I know I can replace a component quickly and easily. An iMac may have to be taken in to a shop - furthering downtime, delaying work, enjoyment,etc. Also, the resale price among Mac users tends to stay high. Last year I was offered a surprising sum for the home machine when thinking of upgrading myself... simply because it's so upgraded, it's a tower that will basically "never die," and is very good for specific and general uses. If this sounds appealing, purchase a tower, throw some extra 3rd party RAM into it, and a couple years down maybe replace the stock gfx card. iMacs have really nice screens and are powerful as well, but for upgrading and lasting reasons I have a tower both at work and at home.
    This sounds so appealing to me since it's the best of all worlds but... It's still a tough decision after seeing the iMac with the latest features.

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    At this point it's difficult for me to see what expansion I would need with a tower anymore.

    Currently at home I have a 2010 27" iMac with 16GB of RAM, 2TB HD, 5TB on an attached Drobo (still expandable to 10+TB), and a dock for bare drives that I use for my secondary backups. Primary backups are handled by a Time Capsule and the Drobo. Tertiary backups are to an online service.

    At work I have 2008, I think, tower with 16GB of RAM, 500GB HD, and two 27" monitors. Every now and then it feels creaky but 90 per cent of the time I don't really notice that I'm on five year old machine.

    Unless you have need of the PCI slots an iMac with maxed RAM can handle a hell of lot. Attached storage like the Drobo are expandable and protected from single drive failures so are much safer than anything onboard. Backups should be handled by a combination of attached drives and online services.

    That said, the towers do have better busses and are better for the big tasks than an iMac will be. If you need that kind of power I'd say hold out and see what Apple are bringing later this year. Hopefully they'll announce something at WWDC this year even if it's not shipping to the Fall. The caveat is that Tim Cook didn't say they'd have a new tower just that they'd have something for the people who are waiting for a new tower.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  11. #11

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    I wouldn't go Drobo but that's another discussion for another time.

    If you're relatively computer savvy, I'd recommend building a Hackintosh. There's enough resources out there that simplifies the process significantly. I built myself one last year.. everything on it works as well as the equivalent Mac Pro, but I spent significantly less than I did had I bought the genuine article.

    http://lifehacker.com/5841604/the-al...g-a-hackintosh

  12. #12

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    It seems to come down to whether you want one big box or a bunch of little boxes laying around.

    Maybe the next Mac Pro will have a built in screen and printer - all in one. Or it will be a Big Mac Mini.

  13. #13

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    Heh, I like a "Big Mac Mini" please, with fries on the side.

    We have a 2008 MBP (my portable), 2008 MB (wife's), and a 2010 Mini (HTPC) in da house, they all get used but my Hackintosh is my go-to machine for gaming.

    Been burnt by all in one units in the past, so I don't really like the idea of an iMac, even as nice as it is.

    I run a 30" IPS monitor on my Hackintosh.. can't really go back to anything smaller.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    Heh, I like a "Big Mac Mini" please, with fries on the side.

    We have a 2008 MBP (my portable), 2008 MB (wife's), and a 2010 Mini (HTPC) in da house, they all get used but my Hackintosh is my go-to machine for gaming.

    Been burnt by all in one units in the past, so I don't really like the idea of an iMac, even as nice as it is.

    I run a 30" IPS monitor on my Hackintosh.. can't really go back to anything smaller.
    Technically two of the machines you list, the MacBook Pro and the MacBook are all-on-ones.

    The only way you could get burned on any all-in-one, laptop for desktop, is if the screen or mother board dies, those are your big ticket replacements.

    I think the major issue is whether or not you need the horsepower of a tower (the current Mac Pro still has a bigger bus than the current iMac) or the PCI slots. The Hackintosh route is fine as long as don't mind mucking with hardware and hacking the OS. One question there, with the Hackintosh, can you run software updates directly from Apple or do you have patch yourself? And does it work fine with the Mac App store, iCloud, etc?

    KC: On box count my home setup of iMac, second monitor and Drobo takes up less space than my work setup of tower and two monitors. Also, if I did have a tower at home I would still have attached storage as I don't like being reliant on the onboard storage. I always have backups and a full bootable copy of the machine.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  15. #15

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    Yes Paul, in a sense, they are all-in-ones.

    With the Hackintosh I get software updates directly from Apple. I assume cloud works but I don't use it, but the App Store does indeed work.

    "About my Mac" identifies it as a MacPro5,1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    Yes Paul, in a sense, they are all-in-ones.

    With the Hackintosh I get software updates directly from Apple. I assume cloud works but I don't use it, but the App Store does indeed work.

    "About my Mac" identifies it as a MacPro5,1.
    Cool, I wasn't sure about that. If the App Store works then I don't see a reason why iCloud wouldn't work as well. I use it for bookmark syncing between office, home, phone, and tablet as well as for a few note taking apps.

    Thanks

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  17. #17

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    The next Mac Pro could be wider, taller and somewhat thinner with a glass front and a wall mount bracket on the back. Then you hang it up on the wall behind your monitor as a piece of art.

    Or put legs on it and lay it under your monitor and the glass would have a floating virtual keyboard that adjusts to your hand placement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The next Mac Pro could be wider, taller and somewhat thinner with a glass front and a wall mount bracket on the back. Then you hang it up on the wall behind your monitor as a piece of art.

    Or put legs on it and lay it under your monitor and the glass would have a floating virtual keyboard that adjusts to your hand placement.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    The next Mac Pro could be wider, taller and somewhat thinner with a glass front and a wall mount bracket on the back. Then you hang it up on the wall behind your monitor as a piece of art.

    Or put legs on it and lay it under your monitor and the glass would have a floating virtual keyboard that adjusts to your hand placement.
    Not very ergonomic. Split the keyboard in half and have it follow each hand until you get the right placement then lift your hand and lock it in place. Imaging from below not from above. Maybe reading keystrokes from above. A glass top could add a number of extra symbolic options, or a keyboard, strings...
    Last edited by KC; 07-05-2013 at 01:10 AM.

  20. #20

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    Why It’s Still Smart to Buy a Mac Pro

    Excerpt:
    "But what you won't be doing is walking into a professional post-production house and seeing their primary editing suites being outfit with a bunch of iMacs. I'm guessing from reading that Gizmodo article that the author Mark Wilson hasn't done a lot of professional video post-production. That new 27-inch iMac is an intriguing machine at an unusually affordable price for Apple. I'll buy one for my house but my edit suite will still get a Mac Pro."

    http://www.studiodaily.com/2009/11/s...buy-a-mac-pro/

  21. #21

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    [QUOTE=Paul Turnbull;516824]
    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post

    KC: On box count my home setup of iMac, second monitor and Drobo takes up less space than my work setup of tower and two monitors. Also, if I did have a tower at home I would still have attached storage as I don't like being reliant on the onboard storage. I always have backups and a full bootable copy of the machine.
    The tower can potentially create a cleaner desktop space since the box can easily go on the floor leaving only the keyboard and monitor(s) on the working surface. So too I suppose for backup drives I suppose. As long as cabling is required... an overhead shelf or small table could also be used to clean up one's workspace.

    I actually have quite a large desk at home but hate it being cluttered with computing tools (monitor, keyboard, printer, backup drives, scanner...). So it's time to rethink things.

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    The desk space taken by a setup with the tower on the floor should be virtually identical to the space taken by an all-in-one setup. The primary difference in physical logistics is going to be the extra cabling required by the tower and possible inconvenience in having the optical drive and ports not easily accesible.

    For printing and scanning, I do that at work. My employer gives some leeway for small amounts of printing. The kids needs are ramping up so I may be getting a printer for home soon but I'll be aiming for a wifi one so I can put it out of the way.

    Regarding the OP, if I was buying now I would be waiting to see what comes at WWDC on June 10th. My feeling is that whatever Apple has planned for Pro users will be announced there, hopefully shipping soon. There is some speculation that the machine Apple is going to manufacture in the U.S. will be whatever they replace the towers with.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    So Apple announced their new Mac Pro at WWDC and personally I'm ambivalent.

    http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/

    For my work use my 2010 tower still has enough power so I doubt I'll be getting an upgrade. For home I'll likely hold out another year or two and upgrade the current iMac to another iMac.

    Ars has a good critical first look here:

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/06...e-new-mac-pro/

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    The new Mac Pro is impressive IMO.

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    The first thing I thought when I saw it was that people would be literally putting these things on a pedestal.

    Compared to it sitting on a desktop at risk of impeded airflow caused by clutter, up on a pedestal it would be free to suck. The pedestal itself, of course, would house any number of peripheral machines and hide all the cables. That, or as its packaging at the show suggested, it will be stuck in tall clear tubes along with matching accessories. Offices will look like those old air tube mail offices.

    That or the back of many desks will look like little cathedrals with pipe organs of stacked peripherals spanning the backside.

    My next thoughts on the design was that it looked like it was warhead ready. The North Koreas will be stuffing these things into their missile tubes to control their propaganda machines.

  26. #26

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    I like. I'll be making an R2-D2 case for it.

  27. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    I like. I'll be making an R2-D2 case for it.
    Then it can vacuum the house while you're at work!

  28. #28

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    Yeah, with an iRobot iMac iRoomba Pro!

  29. #29

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    Though, dust is going to be a real killer if these are left on desktops. Figures, Californians wouldn't have any experience looking at how flush to floor cold air returns suck up the dust compared to slightly elevated ones.

    My vote is for cool looking peripheral encasing pedestals!

  30. #30

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    It's not a trash can! It's black wax! The 1904 Mac Pro:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edisongoldmoulded.jpg


    http://museumvictoria.com.au/collect...o-the-rye-1905


    Plus, here's the new ultra-black peripheral stands...

    http://www.icc-rsf.com/en/ultrablack

    And Mac Pro desktop stand

    http://homeathome.homehardware.ca/en...il3/R-I5534834


    Last edited by KC; 20-06-2013 at 07:03 AM.

  31. #31

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    http://www.businessinsider.com/new-m...-faster-2013-6


    New Mac Pro Won't Be Much Faster For Most Users
    KYLE RUSSELL JUN. 21, 2013

    Excerpt

    "The new Mac Pro is also extremely power-lopsided: it will ... but it comes with a ridiculous amount of GPU power. This is overkill to just be about future desktop Retina Displays — clearly, Apple’s pushing for pro and scientific apps to shift more of the heavy lifting...."

    If they succeed, the new Mac Pro will probably crush everything else in its price range..."

  32. #32

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    With so many competing complementary products (phones, tablets, etc.) and cloud/networked computing I've been thinking that it makes more sense to spend a bit more upfront on a desktop because I may keep it far longer that past desktops and want to avoid the hassle of an upgrade. (A bit like the justification for buying a new car vs a used car.) It may even be my last desktop.

    So it was interesting to see this "for the next 10 years" comment. Is that due to the pending death of the desktop?



    Mac Pro launches in December for $3,000: 3.7GHz quad-core Xeon CPU, 12GB RAM, 256GB SSD
    http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/22/m...3-launch-date/

    "Considering Apple's touting this as the computer you'll have for "the next 10 years," perhaps some expansion beyond the base model is worth a thought. "




    Always interesting comments:



    "Cameron6 2 days ago
    I cannot believe what I am reading here…

    "It's too expensive" --> Who forces you to buy? If you can't afford it, why criticizing the price tag? Apple priced this machine and we live in a free country, no? you may want to or may not want to buy. No one has a gun on your head forcing you to open your wallet!

    "I can built my own PC machine for less" --> Good for you, do it! Who cares about what you like doing and how well the different parts you put together will work…

    Apple manufactures / assembles a machine they think they can sell to the "pros" and hard core hobbyist (photo, graphics…), this is not a machine John Doe will buy to email / browse internet or play games. Do not come on this forum bashing Apple for launching to market this machine.

    A Porsche and a Chevy can help you make Chicago to New York… Are you criticizing Porsche for being too expensive? This is unbelievable the Apple bashing here."



    "Giroro Oct 24, 2013
    @Ilja @AbrahamSoto No, it's like comparing Apples to much cheaper, higher performing apples.

    Now that Apple bases their machines on the same off-the-shelf components as PC manufacturers, most of the difference is imagined by people trying to justify paying well over double what their computer is worth. "
    Last edited by KC; 18-11-2013 at 02:56 PM.

  33. #33

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    ...And I still think the Mac Pro looks like one of these

    http://museumvictoria.com.au/collect...8615_Large.jpg

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    While I'm not a fan of Apple, when I am looking at upgrading my PC, I'm always thinking about not what do I need today, but if I spend a little bit more on a couple items, do I think I can get another year, two? out of the system? A lot of the time, it does come down to best bang for the buck, though I try to make sure it is on the higher end of the scale.

    With an iMac, it's probably personal preference. If you want to upgrade one component, you don't have the option to just replace that single component, rather you have to replace the whole unit (a couple exceptions aside). If you're ok with not having the latest and greatest technology, and just want something to use, then a higher end iMac is probably ok, as you'll probably get the benefit of spending a bit more at the beginning.

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    I've been doing a lot of work with video lately, with Adobe Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Speedgrade. I have a MacBook Pro with 8 gb ram, which does the trick, but it can still take a long time to render a clip (and re-render, and re-render, every time I make a change.

    Rendering a three minute video at higher resolution, with audio, can take hours, even overnight.

    Sure wish I had one of those powerful Mac Pro desktops. For many people it's overkill, and, frankly, a waste of money, but for those working with audio and video the desktop is still king.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

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    Quote Originally Posted by lobbdogg View Post
    While I'm not a fan of Apple, when I am looking at upgrading my PC, I'm always thinking about not what do I need today, but if I spend a little bit more on a couple items, do I think I can get another year, two? out of the system? A lot of the time, it does come down to best bang for the buck, though I try to make sure it is on the higher end of the scale.

    With an iMac, it's probably personal preference. If you want to upgrade one component, you don't have the option to just replace that single component, rather you have to replace the whole unit (a couple exceptions aside). If you're ok with not having the latest and greatest technology, and just want something to use, then a higher end iMac is probably ok, as you'll probably get the benefit of spending a bit more at the beginning.
    The thing is for the vast majority of people, latest and greatest means very little. My production desktop at work is four years old, unaltered. My home machine is three years old, unaltered. My kids computer is refurb model from three years ago. Unless you're playing bleeding edge games or doing high end video production there is little or no reason to upgrade individual components on a machine. Not mention the cost and hassle for most people who would need to pay a tech to do the work.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  37. #37

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    6 new mac pro's on order here.

    Will be supplanting some of our older mac pros which we will just shove in the data center and use as file servers and occasionally offload batch jobs onto that would clog up production machines.

    We will see how they go and eventually replace all our Dell and HP workstations (actual workstations) and hackintoshes and shove all that hardware in the data center for a small beowulf cluster for no HPC long term compute (taking data samples from a long running experiment and running batch or concurrent jobs on it, map-reduce jobs on that data, create semi structured database using our algorithms for later runs on our HPC setup).

    All told perhaps about 25-35 in the next 6-8 months. And depending on the next hardware update about 40-50 in the next 12-18 months. -> Includes replacing all the older iMacs too.

    *also going to grab one for home and one or two for my music studio

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    6 new mac pro's on order here.

    Will be supplanting some of our older mac pros which we will just shove in the data center and use as file servers and occasionally offload batch jobs onto that would clog up production machines.

    We will see how they go and eventually replace all our Dell and HP workstations (actual workstations) and hackintoshes and shove all that hardware in the data center for a small beowulf cluster for no HPC long term compute (taking data samples from a long running experiment and running batch or concurrent jobs on it, map-reduce jobs on that data, create semi structured database using our algorithms for later runs on our HPC setup).

    All told perhaps about 25-35 in the next 6-8 months. And depending on the next hardware update about 40-50 in the next 12-18 months. -> Includes replacing all the older iMacs too.

    *also going to grab one for home and one or two for my music studio
    Wow! Can I come over to your place to work?
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  39. #39

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    lol

    PhD with practical experience is the cost of entry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    lol

    PhD with practical experience is the cost of entry.
    I can't even spell PhD. Oh well.
    aka Jim Good; "The sooner you fall behind, the more time you have to catch up." - Steven Wright

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    lol

    PhD with practical experience is the cost of entry.
    I can't even spell PhD. Oh well.
    With your computer's autocorrect and autoacronym you don't need to.
    Just start typing out Doctor of Philosophy...

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    Mac Pro is apparently shipping tomorrow. With luck I'll have my new work machine before Christmas.

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/18/5...ase-date-price

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  44. #44

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    $3,000 plus screen etc. up to $10,000.

    Funny to think that our first home computer, a Kaypro II running CPM2.2 cost something like $2,000 - $3,000 and that was three decades ago. In today's dollars that's probably north of $6-7K. It did come with a screen though.. Even 10-15 years ago $2 grand was a common cost for PCs and everyone paid it without question.

    So now the question to ask is, with all the other devices that need to be added to the home budget, how often will one be replacing a desk top, if at all? It might be worthwhile to pay up for 'the best' since you may want to live it for many years.


    Apple’s new Mac Pro arrives tomorrow, can be configured to cost more than $10,000

    http://www.extremetech.com/computing...ore-than-10000




    The New Mac Pro: What options to Apple's high-end Mac should you get?

    Excerpt:
    "If you take a look at Apple's Mac Pro product site, you'll get a pretty good idea of who the company is aiming the new system at: digital video and film editors and producers; artists who are doing 3D modeling and animation (Disney's Pixar studio is an early adopter of the new Mac Pro); professional photographers; graphic designers and publishers; professional musicians and audio engineers; scientists and others who need massive compute power."

    http://aviationrecord.com/technology...u-get-417.html

    ,
    Last edited by KC; 18-12-2013 at 01:04 PM.

  45. #45
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    I doubt I would recommend a Mac Pro to anyone as a home machine. If you want a Mac for home then iMacs more than do the trick. Notably a coworker of mine, who does a lot of coding at home, just replaced his 5+ year old Mac Pro with an iMac and Drobo.

    For myself my home upgrade schedule is a new machine every five years. Currently almost three and half years into my current iMac and haven't had any issues nor any driving need to upgrade.

    For work I currently have an older Mac Pro and I am able to push it to its limits so the new box will be much appreciated. I'll have to confirm with my boss but I suspect we'll be sticking to the midrange $4100 Mac Pros. I already have monitors and an external Thunderbolt drive for bulk storage.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  46. #46

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    Mac pro is either for seriously heavy lifting or dick measuring. No point in home users getting one as they won't be using openCL or need 3 4k displays or 6 2k displays..

    That being said our order was put in a couple days ago. We won't be seeing them till new years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    Mac pro is either for seriously heavy lifting or dick measuring. No point in home users getting one as they won't be using openCL or need 3 4k displays or 6 2k displays..

    That being said our order was put in a couple days ago. We won't be seeing them till new years.
    How did you manage to order them? I thought that wasn't possible until tomorrow?

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    Mac pro is either for seriously heavy lifting or dick measuring. No point in home users getting one as they won't be using openCL or need 3 4k displays or 6 2k displays..

    That being said our order was put in a couple days ago. We won't be seeing them till new years.
    How did you manage to order them? I thought that wasn't possible until tomorrow?
    Business order so the business sales folks we deal with let us get our requests in early. Orders go in today but we were able to get our list of requests in monday and invoiced tuesday and put in the queue.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    Mac pro is either for seriously heavy lifting or dick measuring. No point in home users getting one as they won't be using openCL or need 3 4k displays or 6 2k displays..

    That being said our order was put in a couple days ago. We won't be seeing them till new years.
    How did you manage to order them? I thought that wasn't possible until tomorrow?
    Business order so the business sales folks we deal with let us get our requests in early. Orders go in today but we were able to get our list of requests in monday and invoiced tuesday and put in the queue.
    Nice!

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  50. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by IdriveaSubaru View Post
    Mac pro is either for seriously heavy lifting or dick measuring. No point in home users getting one as they won't be using openCL or need 3 4k displays or 6 2k displays..

    That being said our order was put in a couple days ago. We won't be seeing them till new years.
    Yeah, in my case I've pretty much settled on the idea of just getting a new imac. ...but one time I bought a SUV and passed on getting the A/C, saving a thousand plus dollars. (I was trying to be green.) Anyway we only need to use A/C in Edmonton a few times a year but my wife gave me a lot of grief on those days for that move. So, in terms of the next computer, I can see that in 7 or 8 years I may be catching grief (or cursing myself) for an impaired machine that needs upgrading or replacing but living with that grief for a few more years until I get around to upgrading or replacing it.

    In other words, if near useless options like A/c (leather, video, extra HP, 4wd,...) are so easily justifiable for autos, etc. why the high bar for computers? Maybe load it up and in the future sit back and enjoy the shopping free and new system set up, migration free days and latitude it provides.
    Last edited by KC; 18-12-2013 at 07:58 PM.

  51. #51
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    ^ i dont think it is normal to keep a computer for 7-8 years.

    get one just powerful enough for max 5 years and just upgrade at that time.
    be offended! figure out why later...

  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by richardW View Post
    ^ i dont think it is normal to keep a computer for 7-8 years.

    get one just powerful enough for max 5 years and just upgrade at that time.
    Pretty much. Most people don't change their usage patterns all that much and in general their Home Computers are far overpowered for what they use it for. As long as MicroShaft keeps bloating Windows you will need more powerful PC's and apple keeps integrating more and more features (and sometimes bloat as well) you will be left having to upgrade. Short of rolling BSD or Linux you will have to keep upgrading. A Linux/BSD machine I would give a 7-8 year range especially if it is a web browsing, email, open office machine. 3-5 years for a standard windows/mac machine. In the office we do 3 years max and depending on what has come out in the interim may upgrade at 18-24 months -> highly dependent on the applications we run and what new hardware has emerged. That being said we also run protein simulations, chemical chain reactions, biological process statistics and various other hugely compute intensive tasks.

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    Ditto. Our office machine range is around three to five years. My home machine, I target five years. I occasionally encounter people who drag out more than that but they generally don't upgrade the OS and don't use intensive apps.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

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    February.

    Ahhh well, we've waited this long.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  55. #55

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    While you wait... Fascinating discussion.

    Steve Jobs Lost Interview 1990 - A must watch for any entreprenuer
    http://youtu.be/2nMD6sjAe8I

    It's interesting that some of the potential he saw way back in 1990 still hasn't come to fruition. Eg. the power of the higher educational institutions to revolutionize things and the lack of it in the K - 12... But I think the iPad is changing that now. I'm not sure though with chromebooks moving in on the territory is progressive or regressive.

  56. #56

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    Nice article.

    Mac mini vs. iMac vs. Mac Pro: Which Apple desktop should you get? | iMore
    http://www.imore.com/mac-mini-vs-ima...should-you-get

  57. #57

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    If you upgraders have a spare older gen Mac Pro (2010 - 2012) gathering dust, I'd gladly take it off yer hands..

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    If you upgraders have a spare older gen Mac Pro (2010 - 2012) gathering dust, I'd gladly take it off yer hands..
    Wouldn't you rather have a new iMac than an old mac pro?

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Nice article.

    Mac mini vs. iMac vs. Mac Pro: Which Apple desktop should you get? | iMore
    http://www.imore.com/mac-mini-vs-ima...should-you-get
    Another nice article at the same site:

    The New Mac Pro: What options to Apple's high-end Mac should you get?
    By Peter Cohen, Wednesday, Dec 18, 2013
    http://www.imore.com/new-mac-pro-wha...should-you-get



    And a couple comments from each of the two threads...

    "dangould says: Dec 4, 2013 at 3:25 pm - 2 weeks ago

    Question: Loaded iMac vs low end Mac Pro? The cost is nearly identical. I'm a photographer, graphic artist, and small publisher that works with large files. A heavy user of the Adobe CS suite and some Final Cut editing, it's not unusual to have a dozens apps running. My 2009 Mac Pro needs replacing (I'm gonna miss it). A loaded iMac i7 with SSD and the new Mac Pro both cost about $3k. I already have two displays, although they date back to 2009. I go back and forth on this one but lean towards the Mac Pro. Thoughts?"



    "Montgomery Gabrys says: Dec 19, 2013 at 5:09 am - 2 days ago

    Agreed - getting a bottom of the top-of-the-line still expands head-room greatly. And it's not an ego thing to go to the highest power platform, it's about using a tool that removes as many limitations as possible - and allows you to explore new things. And that's what computing should be about."



    .
    Last edited by KC; 21-12-2013 at 09:39 AM.

  60. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Legacy View Post
    If you upgraders have a spare older gen Mac Pro (2010 - 2012) gathering dust, I'd gladly take it off yer hands..
    Wouldn't you rather have a new iMac than an old mac pro?
    No.

  61. #61

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    depends on your needs

  62. #62

  63. #63

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    we've received our initial demo machine order (Because we are almost fully mac and have a big number of systems we get cool stuff like free demo machines!) 2 pros have arrived, one in a stripped down config and another nearly fully loaded.

    *and here is the reason we aren't going with our own hackintoshes for the most part*:
    1. cost more to build equivalent.
    2. they are super tiny and pack a whack of power into a very small space
    3. Less work for us to maintain.

    we will build some hackintoshes but they will be 2-4 proc and 2-4 gpu machines with north of 128GB of ram. They will also run our own in shop linux and BSD builds.

    Here's a cost look at building an equivalent: (and to anyone who says you can get parts cheaper or better, noooooope, ya can't, this is top tier gear at a hell of a good price. The only way we can do cheaper is for our crazy hackintoshes. But to get a form factor like this is with this power is not possible without extreme volume discounts. Oh and we like the super compactness because we can put 2-4 machines in someones work area and have a little compute farm setup and be orders of magnitude quieter than other big compute power machines)

    http://www.futurelooks.com/new-apple...-pc-diy-style/

    http://www.futurelooks.com/can-build...c-diy-cheaper/

    http://bgr.com/2013/12/26/mac-pro-windows-diy-cost/

  64. #64

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    Right - there's a time and place for a hackintosh - but if you're in a pro environment that's not one of them.

    I built two for fun.. one as my go to daily machine and one as an HTPC. For what they are I'm very happy with them.. especially the HTPC as it's upgradeable where as a Mini is not.

  65. #65

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    Apparently the CPU is socketed.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  66. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dialog View Post
    Apparently the CPU is socketed.
    Yes it appears to be, but I can't say for sure if the thermal cap has been removed *which makes removing the heatsink/thermal management device* nearly impossible without wrecking something.

    Also depending on what they have done with the EFI a proc upgrade may or may not be possible.

    We will do some hackintosh machines despite being a 'pro' environment but that's because we want some seriously heavy lifting in the box and with win8 being the piece of crap it is, win7 not being as stable as we need, vista is garbage, and xp a security nightmare, we will stick with custom builds of Linux and BSD and also OSX. And because of some of the expertise in the office and our status as a developer (because of some of the in house software construction we do for our very specific needs) we can get greater access to source code and developer tools so we can modify OSX to a pretty substantial degree (you can mod it yourself if you understand bsd or unix, but if not don't bother) so we won't be just blindly building boxes and slapping the OS on them and seeing what happens. There is a careful development scheme in place (should we go this route, which isn't decided yet while we port our software fully over to 10.9 and the new hardware.

  67. #67

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    I stand corrected, perhaps the heat cap is in place:
    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/12...able-xeon-cpu/

  68. #68

  69. #69

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    I predict that the Mac pro accessories will soon all stack into something looking like this with the mac pro sitting on top.





    or maybe the mac pro going at the bottom for the sake of safety and cooling - but then the floor dusk would get drawn into it.





    .
    Last edited by KC; 08-01-2014 at 08:39 PM.

  70. #70
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    Given their size I'm not sure why anyone would put one on the floor. Mine (apparently arriving end of January now) will be on my desk. Keeps the cables short, the ports accessible, and more room from my feet under the desk.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  71. #71

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    Well, in that case you need the table top version, though with limited peripheral storage, but the handy spilled coffee / sprinkler system protector on top.


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    Apple Store @ Southfate Centre had a demo unit on the floor. It's pretty. Unfortunately they have it hooked up to a Thunderbolt Display and not a 4K. I expect Apple may release new displays at some point soon.

  73. #73

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    New displays are likely. Personally I would be okay with a high freshrate colour accurate, high contrast and pixel accurate reference display in the 30 inch range (love my cinema 30" displays) for under 10 grand.

  74. #74

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    I sure wonder where things will be in another five or ten years... 8K TVs/displays are apparently already well on their way. ...and I believe I read somewhere that Japan is already already upping some or other broadcast/transmission/production standard to 4K.

    I also read somewhere that IBM just purchased some company with technology to transmit massive files in a fraction of the current time.


    I'm back.
    IBM bought Aspira.
    "Aspera claims it can send a 24-gigabyte file halfway around the world in 30 seconds."

    IBM acquires Aspera and its tech for moving massive files to the cloud — Tech News and Analysis
    http://gigaom.com/2013/12/19/ibm-acq...-to-the-cloud/


    I'm guessing that this capability won't be coming to my neighbourhood for a few more years.
    Last edited by KC; 11-01-2014 at 11:19 AM.

  75. #75

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    beyond 8k for tv is likely to be the end point for quite awhile as beyond that the increase in bandwidth provides no difference in image quality that can be seen as the pixels are below our ability to resolve. For projection the upper limit is substantially higher due to larger projection areas.

    After 8k will be higher bit depth colour, larger contrast ranges, brighter overall and faster frame rates and of course better compression tech and higher quality glass in the displays.

  76. #76

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    These discussions are way over my head, but this guy thinks the Mac Pro is a deal for what you get...

    A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro | Ars Technica

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01...-2013-mac-pro/

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    These discussions are way over my head, but this guy thinks the Mac Pro is a deal for what you get...

    A pro with serious workstation needs reviews Apple’s 2013 Mac Pro | Ars Technica

    http://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/01...-2013-mac-pro/
    I am very pleased with mine!

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  78. #78

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    They are golden. Now we just need a dual proc version oh that would be tasssty!!! I would buy many of those!

    And yes as a serious professional they are amazing rigs at incredible prices (having priced out similar rigs from competitors and also home brewing our own)

  79. #79
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    You need an adapter (or a new cable) to plug your iPhone into the new MacBook Pros

    Apple just announced a lineup of three new MacBook Pro laptops, each of which is decked out with four (four!) USB Type-C ports. And as is the case with all things Apple these days, you know what that means — you’re going to need more dongles.


    More specifically, you now need purchase either a USB 2.0 (old USB) to USB Type-C dongle or a Lightning-to-USB-C cable to connect your shiny new iPhone 7 — or any old iPhone, to be clear — to use any of these new MacBook Pros. (There’s also currently no dongle that will let you use the new Lightning EarPods on the new MacBook Pros. You’d need to daisy-chain a few together.
    http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...adapter-dongle


    Insert the apple sheeple defending the company's tactics to screw over their customers as they get price gouged. What a brilliant company to have been able to pull this off!

  80. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Insert the apple sheeple defending the company's tactics to screw over their customers as they get price gouged. What a brilliant company to have been able to pull this off!
    Followed by the non-apple sheeple compelled to gloat and condescend like this.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  81. #81
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    When Apple uses a propriety port they're wrong, when they use open standard port they're also wrong.

    Personally I'm hoping they move to USB-C everywhere. Lightning, while very good in some ways, is turning out to be a poor physical connector. I'm finding the exposed contacts get rubbed off over time rendering the cable less than useful.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  82. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    When Apple uses a propriety port they're wrong, when they use open standard port they're also wrong.

    Personally I'm hoping they move to USB-C everywhere. Lightning, while very good in some ways, is turning out to be a poor physical connector. I'm finding the exposed contacts get rubbed off over time rendering the cable less than useful.
    It's not the ports that has me not wanting to get a new MBP, it's the midrange components at high-end prices. They've got slow, last-gen CPUs, a relatively tiny amount of older-gen RAM, middling GPUs but ridiculously high prices. Looks like my next machine will be Linux on a Dell.

    As for cables, I find more recent Lightning cables (both Apple & Anker MFI) to be far more resilient than the initial ones I got with my iPhones.

    E: They'll never put USB-C on the iPhones. The connector is too thick in comparison to Lightning. If you think Apple will ever replace one connection with a fatter connector on a device you've not been paying much attention to them.
    Last edited by noodle; 28-10-2016 at 08:16 AM.
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    ^ Yet Android phones like the Moto Z are slimmer than the iP7 and have a USB type C port. Who hasn't been paying attention???? lol, it's a greed thing, pure and simple.

  84. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilman View Post
    ^ Yet Android phones like the Moto Z are slimmer than the iP7 and have a USB type C port. Who hasn't been paying attention???? lol, it's a greed thing, pure and simple.
    One terrible phone's implementation doesn't magically make it smaller in perpetuity. The USB-C connector is physically larger than Lightning & that's a fact. Lightning is also fully compliant with USB3.1 for speed & capable of handling the full wattage that USB-C can as well.





    (Apologies I've not been following phones that run an OS I'll never use from a company I'd never ever buy hardware from. I can't imagine a less customer-privacy-centric combo of Google software running on Lenovo hardware. Two wrongs don't make a right)
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  85. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Lightning, while very good in some ways, is turning out to be a poor physical connector. I'm finding the exposed contacts get rubbed off over time rendering the cable less than useful.
    The same rubbing down of contacts will happen everywhere, but with Lightning the cable is the one that takes one for the team. In USB-C it's the device. I'd much rather replace a $20 cable than device costing orders of magnitude more.
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  86. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    Insert the apple sheeple defending the company's tactics to screw over their customers as they get price gouged. What a brilliant company to have been able to pull this off!
    Followed by the non-apple sheeple compelled to gloat and condescend like this.
    Industry insiders say that after the MS event the day before, Cook and Co. hauled the entire executive into a boardroom and they had a long naval-gaze because MS completely dismantled them in the innovation department.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  87. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    You need an adapter (or a new cable) to plug your iPhone into the new MacBook Pros

    Apple just announced a lineup of three new MacBook Pro laptops, each of which is decked out with four (four!) USB Type-C ports. And as is the case with all things Apple these days, you know what that means — you’re going to need more dongles.


    More specifically, you now need purchase either a USB 2.0 (old USB) to USB Type-C dongle or a Lightning-to-USB-C cable to connect your shiny new iPhone 7 — or any old iPhone, to be clear — to use any of these new MacBook Pros. (There’s also currently no dongle that will let you use the new Lightning EarPods on the new MacBook Pros. You’d need to daisy-chain a few together.
    http://www.theverge.com/circuitbreak...adapter-dongle


    Insert the apple sheeple defending the company's tactics to screw over their customers as they get price gouged. What a brilliant company to have been able to pull this off!
    It is brilliant from a business perspective. This has nothing to do with users, but everything to do with licensing fees that every company that makes an adapter has to pay to Apple. Same reason they made the Lightning EarPods. They weren't making any money off of a 3.5mm port, because they didn't own the port. Companies also pay licensing fees for headphones to an iPhone too now. I'm not a sheeple at all, I mean, I have a Galaxy S7, and it was an LG G3 before that, but you have to give Apple credit for devising such a good licensing scheme over the years. They've slowly brought it to market too, rather than all at once. Heck, even with cases - there is still a licensing fee. It has absolutely nothing to do with slim/fat connectors. The USB-C port would be fine for an iPhone, but then they wouldn't be making money on it.

    Too bad the Magsafe port is dead. That was a brilliant idea. I'm sure many laptops have been saved because of that port.

  88. #88

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    Lightning predates USB-C by 2 years. When Apple wanted to replace the dock connector there was nothing on the market that could do what Apple wanted.

    The USB Type-C Specification 1.0 was published by the USB Implementers Forum and was finalized in August 2014
    Lightning is a proprietary computer bus and power connector created by Apple Inc. Introduced on September 12, 2012 to replace its predecessor, the 30-pin dock connector
    I suspect if Apple had announced a switch to USB-C for their mobile devices the haters would have mocked them for switching away after just a few years just as boisterously as they decry them for creating their own defacto standard when the rest of the industry was thinking Micro USB was pretty keen. Lightning is physically smaller, future-proofed to handle connections up to USB 3.1 gen2 (currently) & places the strain/wear on the cable not the device (unlike USB-C). It's a really well-engineered, well-thought out & well-implemented design. I mean, I've heard of substandard Lightning cables & chargers starting fires but nowhere near the issues around dodgy USB-C cables, renown for their abilities to brick devices.

    I don't think Lightning is gonna go anywhere & wouldn't be surprised to see them move to passive Thunderbolt-Lightning cables for the iPads & perhaps iPhones in the next year (with more expensive active Thunderbolt cables as an addon to increase speed). That'd give them all of the advantages of Thunderbolt, USB3.1 & Lightning without having to give up their control.

    (Really, what they should have done is announced they were switching to USB-C Lightning cables across the board alongside the iPhone 7, with a sufficiently Apple-y adapter to turn USB-C back into good ol' USB-A included in the box for the next year or so.)

    FWIW, I love my current Apple stuff like my iPhone 6 & now vintage 2011 MBP, but can't justify the current pricing for what amounts to fairly incremental upgrades, hence me considering a Dell running Linux.
    Last edited by noodle; 28-10-2016 at 11:27 AM. Reason: Accidentally doubled up up a word.
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  89. #89

  90. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Off topic but here's a value comparison:

    http://www.macworld.com/article/3135...ce-studio.html
    There is no comparison - iMac doesn't have a touch screen, so at minimum you're adding a $2700 Cintiq to the iMac to make it "comparable". If you're looking for a home use AIO, there are far less expensive options from HP, Dell, etc. Surface Studio is a specialized piece of kit for graphics professionals, and it's a bargain. iMac does not cater to those professionals in any way compared to this.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  91. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Off topic but here's a value comparison:

    http://www.macworld.com/article/3135...ce-studio.html
    There is no comparison - iMac doesn't have a touch screen, so at minimum you're adding a $2700 Cintiq to the iMac to make it "comparable". If you're looking for a home use AIO, there are far less expensive options from HP, Dell, etc. Surface Studio is a specialized piece of kit for graphics professionals, and it's a bargain. iMac does not cater to those professionals in any way compared to this.
    I agree.

    Myself, I have a good iMac and love it, but ended up getting a Dell Workstation running 64-bit Excel after numerous spreadsheet headaches running Parallels/Windows8/Excel on my iMac. For my purposes I don't need a touch screen at all. I do however need a much, much bigger and better monitor. plus repurposing the current one as a second monitor would be very nice.

    BtW most of my posts here are via an iPad, hence all my typos and editing...
    Last edited by KC; 28-10-2016 at 11:55 AM.

  92. #92

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    If you've got a Thunderbolt-equipped iMac it can hook up to any Thunderbolt-equipped machine (mac or pc) & act like a display. Likewise if you've got one that has mini-DisplayPort, it can hook to any device outputting DisplayPort & be used as a monitor.

    You can't, however, use a Thunderbolt iMac for hooking up to a DisplayPort machine.
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  93. #93
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    I'll give it to MicroSoft, the Surface line is turning out very good. No particular interest to me as I don't have use cases for them but my wife has the Surface Pro for work (replaced her laptop) and loves it. I'll stick to my iMac at home and MacPro at work as I have no real interest in a touch screen on the desktop. I like big screens set back farther than my arm reaches.

    On the laptop side I've found the MacBook Pros have very long useful lives and I'm interested in utility than bleeding edge. Currently using an original 12" MacBook. I was offsite the last three days running part of an event and the screen is so sharp and the machine fast enough, I was writing code on it just fine while running all the stuff I needed to.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  94. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    On the laptop side I've found the MacBook Pros have very long useful lives and I'm interested in utility than bleeding edge. Currently using an original 12" MacBook. I was offsite the last three days running part of an event and the screen is so sharp and the machine fast enough, I was writing code on it just fine while running all the stuff I needed to.
    Yeah, but coding on top of general computer usage isn't really a daunting set of computing tasks. I love my MBP & have gotten plenty of utility out of it over the last 5 years. That being said, even with the RAM maxed & a SSD where the HDD used to be I can't quite handle the larger images that come out of a current-generation DSLR. 44 megapixels+ is just too much for my relatively old machine. So if I want a new camera (and I do) I'll need a new machine, but my options are limited. Switch to Windows (yick) , build a hackintosh (so. much. work), pay through the nose for a new Mac, all on top of the $4k for a new body.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

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