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Thread: Calgary Flood Aftermath

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    Default Calgary Flood Aftermath

    So I saw a couple different pictures coming out of Calgary of Ctrain track that was affected by the flood. I'm a bit surprised as I'm wondering what was used for the track bed to allow this.

    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/LI...481/story.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    So I saw a couple different pictures coming out of Calgary of Ctrain track that was affected by the flood. I'm a bit surprised as I'm wondering what was used for the track bed to allow this.
    Pretty much anything. gravel, sand, clay, etc will get washed out with enough water.
    Unless they had really deep concrete piles, you can't stop it.

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    I got to see the Saddledome/stampede grounds yesterday from a short distance...

    I know the Mayors trying to be optimistic about moving ahead with the Stampede but it doesnt look good. The area still had a ton of water and lots and lots of debris and damaged/destroyed buildings on site.

    I will post some pictures once I get them uploaded to my computer.

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    ^ there was jsut a post on twitter of the horsetrack - they have hoes already working to rebuild it for the chuckwagons. Get ready for the tag hellorhighwater....

    the big isuse will be the saddledome - can't see all the electrical being replaced in time

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    [QUOTE=chupa;527088]I know the Mayors trying to be optimistic about moving ahead with the Stampede but it doesnt look good. QUOTE]

    Please don't take this personally as that is not my intent but you are looking at the situation through "Edmonton Eyes." "Calgary Eyes" see this not as a premanent setback but as an opportunity to show the world what Calgarians can do when they roll up their sleeves and work together. My prediction is that you will see a scaled back version of "Stampede 101" but you will see a midway, the rodeo, the chucks, and other activitites taking place on the Stampede Grounds. The media will turn this into a positive for the event which will carry forward for future stampedes.

    I've been a lifelong resident of Greater Edmonton except for a few years living in the High Arctic, and so it pains me to say it but Calgary has a more a more "lets get 'er done" mentality than we do. Not to say that we don't get it done in the end... the '87 tornado was a prime example of this city coming together to support each other and it led to our mayor at the time refering to us as the City of Champions... it was not because of our then winning sports teams. If the flood were occuring in Edmonton my guess is the media would be focused on fingerpointing on why this was allowed to happen on and how the city was letting down it's residents. Just look at what happens when the snow hits and the streets aren't cleared immediately or when the potholes get bad.
    Last edited by edTel; 24-06-2013 at 01:08 PM.

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    Agreed, keep in mind the water was still flowing through parts of the grounds at 800pm lastnight. Clean up was occuring on the eastern edge of the grounds while we watched. So the water levels have certainly dropped but are still effecting parts of the grounds.
    Last edited by chupa; 24-06-2013 at 02:45 PM.

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    No catching the C train to the stampede...
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    New roller coaster ride?

    This is going to take a lot of time and money to fix.
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    Calgary may be doing a good job of cleaning up but there is still a couple of more weeks until the stampede starts. Unfortunately, that could be a couple of more weeks to get more rain. The ground is all ready saturated in Southern Alberta and the last thing it needs is more rain. They should be looking to the sky's and hoping it does not rain for a good while yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edTel View Post
    If the flood were occuring in Edmonton my guess is the media would be focused on fingerpointing on why this was allowed to happen on and how the city was letting down it's residents.
    No, I think it would be exactly the same.

    If a disaster of this magnitude happened in Edmonton there would be line ups of volunteers, people sending aid, and citizens working to restore everything to how it was before.


    Speaking of finger-pointing, already we are seeing some finger-pointing towards governments for not doing anything to protect people's homes in these areas that have been flooded.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    New roller coaster ride?
    Oh my, soooo "insensitive".

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    I was making light of an awful situation, a little comic relief but still posted that it would take time and money to fix. Your comments that the disaster will result in an economic gain are false and you fail to understand or even attempt to read the Broken Window Fallacy that is proven over 160 years ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I was making light of an awful situation, a little comic relief but still posted that it would take time and money to fix. Your comments that the disaster will result in an economic gain are false and you fail to understand or even attempt to read the Broken Window Fallacy that is proven over 160 years ago.
    "Making light" when people have died? Classy.

    I was well aware of the BWF well before you discovered it on Wikipedia yesterday. The difference is, I understand that it has no baring on my comments and you don't.

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    Yeah, right.... There were no people killed along those LRT tracks.

    As if you know when I learned about the BWF. I learned it from text books before Wiki and the internet even existed.

    You still don't comprehend that your comments that the flooding disaster will have a silver lining of an economic gain is still plain wrong unless you are a profiteer or a carpetbagger.

    You can look up carpetbagger on wiki
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Speaking of finger-pointing, already we are seeing some finger-pointing towards governments for not doing anything to protect people's homes in these areas that have been flooded.
    I don't understand why the river can't be diverted into farmland or similar in emergencies, you would think a system could be set up upstream, gotta be cheaper than billions of federal and provincial dollars rebuilding multimillion dollar homes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Speaking of finger-pointing, already we are seeing some finger-pointing towards governments for not doing anything to protect people's homes in these areas that have been flooded.
    I don't understand why the river can't be diverted into farmland or similar in emergencies, you would think a system could be set up upstream, gotta be cheaper than billions of federal and provincial dollars rebuilding multimillion dollar homes.
    Maybe it would just be smarter all together to just not build houses in flood plains. Then you dont need to worry about diverting rivers or spending billions of government money on multimillion dollar homes

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    ^true, its crazy that a number were built in the last few years at lower levels than the 2005 floods. The government is basically subsidizing a 'nice' location for rich people. Regardless I would have thought buying farms (or perhaps a stormwater cannal diverting away from city) is cheaper than this madness.
    Last edited by moahunter; 24-06-2013 at 06:18 PM.

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    WTF! How did that happen to the train tracks? I thought they had a flood not an earthquake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    WTF! How did that happen to the train tracks? I thought they had a flood not an earthquake
    Water washed away the ground from underneath them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ^true, its crazy that a number were built in the last few years at lower levels than the 2005 floods. The government is basically subsidizing a 'nice' location for rich people. Regardless I would have thought buying farms (or perhaps a stormwater cannal diverting away from city) is cheaper than this madness.
    That expensive house build on a nice location on a flood plain might be harder to sell in the near future. There may come a time in the future when seller and their real estate agent may have to disclose that the home is built on a flood plain. Or a prudent buyer may ask. If it were me I would be thinking twice about spending a whack of cash on a house that may very well float away when mother nature sees fit. I would not want that worry and stress every time it starts to rain heavily.
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    Default Hell or High Water t-shirts support Red Cross

    The Calgary Stampede is selling ‘Hell or High Water’ through its online store with proceeds donated to the Canadian Red Cross Alberta Floods Fund, which is actively providing relief to flood victims.


    http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/ca...196/story.html
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    Admin, please merge this duplicate topic with this thread - it has nothing to do with LRT, or not anymore
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=33402
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    If the Calgary Stampede did not go ahead it would be a real revenue loss for the city. Hotels are already booked, restaurants take on more staff, caterers get busy, souvenir shops gear up. If Calgary is getting the same amount of rain Edmonton is getting the ground will not be able to absorb it as it is already saturated. It's will be a very scaled back Stampede if it goes ahead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    WTF! How did that happen to the train tracks? I thought they had a flood not an earthquake
    Water washed away the ground from underneath them.
    That is wild! Wow.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    WTF! How did that happen to the train tracks? I thought they had a flood not an earthquake
    That section is over the Elbow River. Hope the bridge came out OK and that all it needs is to rebuild the rail bed.

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    [QUOTE=Gemini;527467]If the Calgary Stampede did not go ahead it would be a real revenue loss for the city. Hotels are already booked, restaurants take on more staff, caterers get busy, souvenir shops gear up. [QUOTE]

    I've done a 180 on this. My initial thought was, "how crass."

    But you're right - not having the Stampede would be a serious blow, including to many who earn minimum wage, or without events such as the Stampede have no job at all.

    That, plus having no Stampede lets the bad guy (the flood) win.

    There'll be a Stampede and whatever form it takes, Calgarians will rally and do it proud.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Calgary really has no choice but to go ahead with the Stampede. There is just too much money at stake.

    Even if the flood damage means that it cannot be as much of a "grand spectacle" as it was previous years, even a slightly stripped down Stampede will bring some positivity back and double as a great fundraiser as well.

    Anything is a lot more productive than simply throwing the towel in and just cancelling everything.

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    I bet the attendance at the downtown kickoff parade will blow every previous Stampede parade out of the water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    I bet the attendance at the downtown kickoff parade will blow every previous Stampede parade out of the water.
    Pun intended?
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    Pun completely unintentional, actually.

    I'm serious about the attendance though, after a time of crisis like that area went through, the population is going to come together to celebrate and basically show the world that they have not been defeated.

    Think of the first Saints game at the Superdome after Katrina.

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    The parade will be the official reopening of DT.. I agree...

    I can only imagine what the core will be like without LRT being from the South though...
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    flood may have something to do with that ??? I'm just wondering but will find out about it.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/train-b...iver-1.1343758
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    flood may have something to do with that ??? I'm just wondering but will find out about it.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/train-b...iver-1.1343758
    Seems highly likely it's flood related especially given it appears the bridge has not been inspected since before the flood. :/

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    The CP bridge over the Bow River has now collapsed. More bad news for Calgary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    flood may have something to do with that ??? I'm just wondering but will find out about it.

    http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/train-b...iver-1.1343758
    Seems highly likely it's flood related especially given it appears the bridge has not been inspected since before the flood. :/
    Actualy it was inspected 18 times according to CP, so someone really fracked up here. And i love their mayor he's said it like it is. I wish we had a mayor like that.....

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    CP spokesman said the 4th pier on the bridge collapsed. The base of the pier, which is underwater, had 'scouring' on it. Not sure what that means, but he said because of the flooding it was impossible to check the base of the bridge piers. Nenshi maybe should just zip it until he knows all the facts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The CP bridge over the Bow River has now collapsed. More bad news for Calgary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    CP spokesman said the 4th pier on the bridge collapsed. The base of the pier, which is underwater, had 'scouring' on it. Not sure what that means, but he said because of the flooding it was impossible to check the base of the bridge piers. Nenshi maybe should just zip it until he knows all the facts.
    Can you please cite your sources, or provide a link? I've been searching twitter and the usual news sites but nothing about a collapse yet.
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    ^CFRN Shaw Channel 2, 6 o'clock news.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The CP bridge over the Bow River has now collapsed. More bad news for Calgary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    CP spokesman said the 4th pier on the bridge collapsed. The base of the pier, which is underwater, had 'scouring' on it. Not sure what that means, but he said because of the flooding it was impossible to check the base of the bridge piers. Nenshi maybe should just zip it until he knows all the facts.
    Can you please cite your sources, or provide a link? I've been searching twitter and the usual news sites but nothing about a collapse yet.
    Im surprised you haven't heard about it they been going on about it all day!

    http://globalnews.ca/news/675966/bre...idge-collapse/

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ok-bridge.html

    And no Gemini the mayor shouldn't just "zip it" he is entitled to know what the hell goes on in his city.
    Last edited by Magnoblade; 27-06-2013 at 09:26 PM.

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    ^Sure he's entitled to know what's going on in the city (it's not HIS by the way) but because he represents it he should zip it until he knows all the facts. Maybe show a little bit diplomacy, it's trying times down there.
    Go sit back on your perch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    And no Gemini the mayor shouldn't just "zip it" he is entitled to what the hell goes on in his city.
    What does this sentence even mean? He's "entitled to what the hell goes on in his city" That doesn't even make any sense grammatically.

    If you intended to say "he's entitled to comment on what the hell goes on in his city", then sure. But he shouldn't go shooting his mouth off about things that he may or may not have all the facts about. His comments were extremely inflammatory and quite frankly baseless given that CP has inspected the bridge 18 times since the floods.

    That said, it's been a long week for him so he should probably get a pass. And even if CP had done a bunch of inspections in the wake of the floods, the fact remains a bridge collapsed on their watch, and their claim that they didn't realize one of the supports was undermined because they couldn't inspect it properly rings fairly hollow to me. If you can't be totally sure it's safe, you shouldn't be using it.

  43. #43

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    The cause and effect of bridge scouring.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridge_scour

    Nenshi should realize that the bridge scouring was beyond CP control during the flooding.
    What company is going to send men/women on a raging river to look for hazards.
    ^Yes, I agree, CP should have moved the trains off the bridge but at this time I don't know if they even had access to the bridge or surrounding area while the flooding was going on.
    Last edited by Gemini; 27-06-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    Im surprised you haven't heard about it they been going on about it all day!

    http://globalnews.ca/news/675966/bre...idge-collapse/

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ok-bridge.html
    I've been hearing about this since this morning. But the bridge has NOT collapsed, contrary to what Gemini is hearing. The train derailed and the bridge is in danger of collapsing due to structural failure after the flooding...but that's all. The bridge is still standing.
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    ^Site your source.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    And no Gemini the mayor shouldn't just "zip it" he is entitled to what the hell goes on in his city.
    What does this sentence even mean? He's "entitled to what the hell goes on in his city" That doesn't even make any sense grammatically.

    If you intended to say "he's entitled to comment on what the hell goes on in his city", then sure. safe, you shouldn't be using it.
    My comment was more to the point, i don't drag out my responses short and sweet is how they should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Sure he's entitled to know what's going on in the city (it's not HIS by the way) but because he represents it he should zip it until he knows all the facts. Maybe show a little bit diplomacy, it's trying times down there.
    Go sit back on your perch.
    When your mayor its YOUR CITY so my comment still stands as i have said it.

  47. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    Im surprised you haven't heard about it they been going on about it all day!

    http://globalnews.ca/news/675966/bre...idge-collapse/

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ok-bridge.html
    I've been hearing about this since this morning. But the bridge has NOT collapsed, contrary to what Gemini is hearing. The train derailed and the bridge is in danger of collapsing due to structural failure after the flooding...but that's all. The bridge is still standing.
    Indeed the bridge actualy hasnt collapsed its stable im not sure where that info even came from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade View Post
    And no Gemini the mayor shouldn't just "zip it" he is entitled to what the hell goes on in his city.
    What does this sentence even mean? He's "entitled to what the hell goes on in his city" That doesn't even make any sense grammatically.

    If you intended to say "he's entitled to comment on what the hell goes on in his city", then sure. safe, you shouldn't be using it.
    My comment was more to the point, i don't drag out my responses short and sweet is how they should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^Sure he's entitled to know what's going on in the city (it's not HIS by the way) but because he represents it he should zip it until he knows all the facts. Maybe show a little bit diplomacy, it's trying times down there.
    Go sit back on your perch.
    When your mayor its YOUR CITY so my comment still stands as i have said it.
    He's entitled to know what the hell goes on in his (metaphorical) city.

    Sure he is, but I think right about now he should have himself a nap. He's no longer thinking straight.
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade
    My comment was more to the point, i don't drag out my responses short and sweet is how they should be.
    Your comment, even in context, does not make any sense. Nenshi is entitled to what exactly? It's not a matter of brevity. It's a matter of not making sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by darkmagnoblade
    When your mayor its YOUR CITY so my comment still stands as i have said it.
    He insinuated that layoffs at CP had resulted in a lack of inspections on the bridge. By all indications that's false. No, even as Mayor, he's not entitled to spread false information. In fact, as Mayor he has a special responsibility to ensure that he is not doing so, given that his word counts for so much.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 27-06-2013 at 09:34 PM.

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    While CP has said they inspected the bridge they also had said they were unable to inspect the the bottoms of the piers due to the high levels and flow of the water. So in effect they were unable to inspect the bridge at the places that were most likely to have become vulnerable. Seems they just decided to take a chance that the bridge was okay and lost.

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    Gemini: I believe the main issue for Nenshi was that there was no communication from CP. He and the Calgary first response people had shut down half the city due to this issue and CP wasn't returning his calls. Then he had to stand in front of the media and try to explain what was going on while CP stonewalled. He communicated what information he had, explained why he had so little, and expressed his frustration about why the City knew so little. By all rights it should have been the head of CP standing in front the microphones explaining why his company was potentially adding calamity to disaster.

    While CP had inspected the upper structure they understandably had not inspected the piers. They also should know that the bridge was not built into bedrock and that the piers were at risk. Even with 18 structural inspections they should not have been running hazardous cargo over that bridge until they knew the piers had not been damaged. They did run trains and the result was City workers risking their lives to pull CP's *** out of the fire plus even more lost income for Calgary businesses and workers.

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    ^Funny you should mention that last part, as that was exactly what he said why is he risking his men for cp's frack up when they wont even give him answers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Gemini: I believe the main issue for Nenshi was that there was no communication from CP. He and the Calgary first response people had shut down half the city due to this issue and CP wasn't returning his calls. Then he had to stand in front of the media and try to explain what was going on while CP stonewalled. He communicated what information he had, explained why he had so little, and expressed his frustration about why the City knew so little. By all rights it should have been the head of CP standing in front the microphones explaining why his company was potentially adding calamity to disaster.

    While CP had inspected the upper structure they understandably had not inspected the piers. They also should know that the bridge was not built into bedrock and that the piers were at risk. Even with 18 structural inspections they should not have been running hazardous cargo over that bridge until they knew the piers had not been damaged. They did run trains and the result was City workers risking their lives to pull CP's *** out of the fire plus even more lost income for Calgary businesses and workers.
    Lack of communication is never a good thing in times of crisis.
    It was stated that CP rail had left those trains on the bridge to add more weight to it when the river was running high. No one expected the flood and aftermath would have been that great. As people had been warned not to go within 300 metres of river banks CP workers could not go and move the trains. They could not send divers down to check the piers as it was too dangerous with the fast running water. Seems to me they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nenshi venting his spleen at CP is a bit premature. He should wait to hear the whole story of why the trains weren't moved. Let's face it, if he had of insisted they be moved and then CP staff were swept away by the river it would have been a whole different story. If he looks around the City of Calgary he will find this is not the only crises to hone in on.
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    please read Hunter Harrison's (Head of CP) comments in the globe
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    maybe they will have to replace it with new bridge ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Gemini: I believe the main issue for Nenshi was that there was no communication from CP. He and the Calgary first response people had shut down half the city due to this issue and CP wasn't returning his calls. Then he had to stand in front of the media and try to explain what was going on while CP stonewalled. He communicated what information he had, explained why he had so little, and expressed his frustration about why the City knew so little. By all rights it should have been the head of CP standing in front the microphones explaining why his company was potentially adding calamity to disaster.

    While CP had inspected the upper structure they understandably had not inspected the piers. They also should know that the bridge was not built into bedrock and that the piers were at risk. Even with 18 structural inspections they should not have been running hazardous cargo over that bridge until they knew the piers had not been damaged. They did run trains and the result was City workers risking their lives to pull CP's *** out of the fire plus even more lost income for Calgary businesses and workers.
    Lack of communication is never a good thing in times of crisis.
    It was stated that CP rail had left those trains on the bridge to add more weight to it when the river was running high. No one expected the flood and aftermath would have been that great. As people had been warned not to go within 300 metres of river banks CP workers could not go and move the trains. They could not send divers down to check the piers as it was too dangerous with the fast running water. Seems to me they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nenshi venting his spleen at CP is a bit premature. He should wait to hear the whole story of why the trains weren't moved. Let's face it, if he had of insisted they be moved and then CP staff were swept away by the river it would have been a whole different story. If he looks around the City of Calgary he will find this is not the only crises to hone in on.
    Where did you hear the train was stationary? Everything I read said the bridge was in service and the train was moving when the bridge sagged:

    The train derailed at roughly 3:30 a.m. local time, at a speed of 14 km/h and when most cars had already crossed the central Calgary bridge. The train stopped and crews called 911.

    And when the City is shutting down and evacuating neighbourhoods they shouldn't have to wait at the whim of the responsible party. Hunter Harrison should have been on the phone with Nenshi immediately. Even if he didn't have answers at least he would be acknowledging the severity of the situation. I think Nenshi wouldn't have been quite so harsh if it had been an ordinary week but given the situation in the rest of city I'll cut him some slack.

    I still maintain, and it sounds like the City of Calgary engineers agree, that the situation was predictable.

    "The opinion of the engineers at the city was given the construction of that bridge, the possibility of something going wrong was actually very high and they probably would have taken more of an abundance of caution,

    Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/al...#ixzz2XYA3fN00
    Last edited by Paul Turnbull; 28-06-2013 at 07:15 PM. Reason: spelling

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    On another note:

    Disaster sociologist says southern Alberta flood unlike others in North America

    ..., the dynamics of recovery in the city will differ markedly from past flooding disasters. The people most affected will have significant resources at their disposal, Haney said.

    “It’s never easy and it’s still really traumatic, but it’s different than most floods in that, most of the time, the people who flood are the people who don’t have the ability to fund their own recoveries.”
    It's an interesting observation and bodes well for Calgary getting back on it's feet very quickly.

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  59. #59

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    ^ Or does it mean they will simply want a bigger hand out.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

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    I'm wondering if this thread should be moved since it's gone away from its original LRT discussion. A lot more can be added to this, beyond LRT, since the title "Calgary Flood Aftermath" is a pretty broad subject.

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    more than 100 buildings may have to be demolished due to flooding ??


    http://www.theobserver.ca/2013/06/29...-be-demolished
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  62. #62

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    It will be more than that..
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Gemini: I believe the main issue for Nenshi was that there was no communication from CP. He and the Calgary first response people had shut down half the city due to this issue and CP wasn't returning his calls. Then he had to stand in front of the media and try to explain what was going on while CP stonewalled. He communicated what information he had, explained why he had so little, and expressed his frustration about why the City knew so little. By all rights it should have been the head of CP standing in front the microphones explaining why his company was potentially adding calamity to disaster.

    While CP had inspected the upper structure they understandably had not inspected the piers. They also should know that the bridge was not built into bedrock and that the piers were at risk. Even with 18 structural inspections they should not have been running hazardous cargo over that bridge until they knew the piers had not been damaged. They did run trains and the result was City workers risking their lives to pull CP's *** out of the fire plus even more lost income for Calgary businesses and workers.
    Lack of communication is never a good thing in times of crisis.
    It was stated that CP rail had left those trains on the bridge to add more weight to it when the river was running high. No one expected the flood and aftermath would have been that great. As people had been warned not to go within 300 metres of river banks CP workers could not go and move the trains. They could not send divers down to check the piers as it was too dangerous with the fast running water. Seems to me they were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Nenshi venting his spleen at CP is a bit premature. He should wait to hear the whole story of why the trains weren't moved. Let's face it, if he had of insisted they be moved and then CP staff were swept away by the river it would have been a whole different story. If he looks around the City of Calgary he will find this is not the only crises to hone in on.
    I don't know, if they inspected the bridge 18 times and did not inspect the foundations, did they really do their job?
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    ^They probably did as good a job as the C of C did on their bridges. Let's face it, the C of C had lots of their roads, bridges, intersections compromised due to the flooding. It's easy to divert the heat away from yourself and divert it too CP Rail. Some C of C structures did not stand up that well. Maybe they should be looking after their own building codes rather than focus on one bridge.
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  65. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    ^They probably did as good a job as the C of C did on their bridges. Let's face it, the C of C had lots of their roads, bridges, intersections compromised due to the flooding. It's easy to divert the heat away from yourself and divert it too CP Rail. Some C of C structures did not stand up that well. Maybe they should be looking after their own building codes rather than focus on one bridge.
    Yes lets not focus on the fact that bridge had dangerous goods on it, and it could have completely collapsed making a toxic mess of the river and more issue for the city good logic there gemini.......

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    In times of emergencies sh*t happens all the time. If the C of C had of had issues with the bridge and the goods that were/are transported on it, it should have fired of a letter to CP years ago. Not squawk after the fact. That goes for all cities/municipalities that have CP tracks or bridges going through their turf. Know what the policies are before calamity happens not after the fact.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    The big difference between the CP bridge and the CofC bridges is that the CP bridge was not built to bedrock. So while neither of them could inspect the piers underwater only the CP bridge had the potential to be seriously compromised, which it was. Inspections need to cover all potential problems, they knew, or should have known, that the piers could be compromised but opened the bridge anyways.

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    Default Flooding may have unearthed dangers at former Calgary artillery range

    "Last month’s flood may have stirred up some long-hidden dangers in a former artillery training range.

    A suspected military shell was found by a man out walking Monday night in the Weaselhead area of Glenmore Park in southwest Calgary.

    The area was cordoned off and the police bomb squad was called in."

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...211/story.html

  69. #69

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    "Temporary Neighbourhood in High River Accepting Families"

    Quote Originally Posted by CTV
    A residential neighbourhood set up to house High River residents displaced by the flooding is steadily growing. Up to 60 families have moved into Saddlebrook and there are now over 400 people living in the community. “This is a positive step forward for these families who have been out of their homes for so long. Moving into the Saddlebrook neighbourhood will give them some stability and a sense of community while they rebuild their homes and make decisions about the future,” said Rick Fraser, Associate Minister of Regional Recovery and Reconstruction.

    Photos



    Family units have two beds (or a double bed, bunk bend, or built-in crib, depending on family needs). They also have a private washroom and shower, furnace, hot water tank, storage area, desk, and a television.

    Meals are available at three different restaurants. Residents also have access to recreation and playground areas and well as housekeeping and onsite medical support.

    The neighbourhood will reach capacity of 1,200 residents when complete.

    Residents who move into Saddlebrook will be able to live there rent-free for 90 days so they have time to make alternate arrangements.

    Saddlebrook is the first temporary neighbourhood to open.

    Temporary housing is also open in the Siksika First Nation until a temporary neighbourhood can be built there.
    The province is also considering temporary neighbourhoods near the M.D. of Bighorn, Calgary, and the Stoney Nakoda First Nation.


  70. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The big difference between the CP bridge and the CofC bridges is that the CP bridge was not built to bedrock. So while neither of them could inspect the piers underwater only the CP bridge had the potential to be seriously compromised, which it was. Inspections need to cover all potential problems, they knew, or should have known, that the piers could be compromised but opened the bridge anyways.
    Imagine the bureaucratic nightmare if a train company had to apply different bridge standards for every municipality, county, etc. that it runs through? Just a make work program, this is an example where Federal law is a good thing. In respect of this bridge, what I find interesting is that the adjoining CP bridge (of same vintage - CN has a separate bridge 10 meters or so away) is still running oil trains over it, they are even stopping right on top (I am guessing for for track switches, or perhaps waiting for additional cars as close to the yard). I'm not convinced it was a pier issue at all, to my untrained eyes it looks more like the bridge just sagged between the piers, a coincidence it happened during the flood. Not that I'm an engineer though.
    Last edited by moahunter; 10-08-2013 at 04:50 PM.

  71. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    I'm not convinced it was a pier issue at all, to my untrained eyes it looks more like the bridge just sagged between the piers, a coincidence it happened during the flood. Not that I'm an engineer though.
    According to the reports at the time and since the failure was caused by the sagging if one of the piers. Where it sagged there is a pier, however in the pictures it's hard to see because it's partially submerged.

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  73. #73

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    ^oh, I think I get it now. There were two piers, one for the South track, one for the North. The South sagged (which we can't easily see), but the North didn't, hence they can still run trains over the North. Weird.

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