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Thread: Walterdale Bridge Replacement | U/C

  1. #3401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Maybe not dynamite, but non-explosive demolition using an expanding grout after the piers have been cut or chomped to water level: http://www.archerusa.com/nonexplosiv...on_Harcon.html
    thanks for the link - although i would hope they plan to remove them to riverbed level or below, not just to water level.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  2. #3402

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Maybe not dynamite, but non-explosive demolition using an expanding grout after the piers have been cut or chomped to water level: http://www.archerusa.com/nonexplosiv...on_Harcon.html
    thanks for the link - although i would hope they plan to remove them to riverbed level or below, not just to water level.
    the bold part is important
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  3. #3403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Maybe not dynamite, but non-explosive demolition using an expanding grout after the piers have been cut or chomped to water level: http://www.archerusa.com/nonexplosiv...on_Harcon.html
    thanks for the link - although i would hope they plan to remove them to riverbed level or below, not just to water level.
    the bold part is important
    you are correct - and the bolding is almost as important as reading comprehension before posting a reply should be.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  4. #3404

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Magnus View Post
    ^Correct


    Well, it looks like all the stone and concrete could be used right there (just moved to the bank) to protect the new bridge and to even create a solid foundation for a paved surface at the river’s edges for some sort of creative enhancements.

  5. #3405

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    Place a barge with an excavator aboard and use a concrete breaker to remove the pier.
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  6. #3406

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    Or leave them in place and turn them into climbing walls. String a rope bridge to them (even more cool!) and create a safety pool below... move rock downstream for a hut, coffeee hop to service the rock climbers...


    Or cover them in plants and bird nesting shelves, etc and they could be neat green “living” pillars.

    The flat tops might even serve as useful for something or other.

    Or mount an array of solar panels on them...



    Another bridge, another set of piers, but matches my thoughts:

    Piers down, someday | Cornwall Standard Freeholder

    “While the majority of councillors shared Rivette’s sentiment, others such as Elaine MacDonald argued the city should take the opportunity to explore options for repurposing the pillars.

    “I think they’re a resource, and I don’t think we should remove them with without considering the possibilities of making into a tourist attraction and as a piece of our history,” said MacDonald.”


    http://www.standard-freeholder.com/2...-down-some-day


    As an aside, this is about the old bridge piers in Fort Saskatchewan.

    Hopefully this is still in the works and could even capture some savings or “synergies” from the planned new highway bridge development:


    Athabasca Landing Trail - Alberta Trail Net - Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

    “An engineering study was conducted in Fall 2010 to identify whether the existing piers can be used for a pedestrian bridge. The study showed the piers are stable and can be reused; however, structural strengthening and repairs will be required before any potential reuse. In January, 2011, the same engineering firm developed three conceptual design alternatives with cost estimates for a bridge built on the CNR piers and for a new bridge with its own independent supports. Federal government funding for the pier evaluation and conceptual bridge engineering study was provided through a grant provided by Trans Canada Trail with project direction and the support from the City of Fort Saskatchewan and Alberta TrailNet Society. A meeting to discuss the engineering reports was held on February 28, 2011 and three designs were considered: a Buffalo Truss Bridge, a suspension bridge, or a single arch bridge spanning the entire river. Efforts to raise funds are currently underway.

    Based on the importance and site exposure of as a landmark, new tourism and recreation destination, and critic al piece of trail infrastructure in the capital region, this project is an ideal candidate for corporate, government and other donor investments.“

    http://www.athabascalandingtrail.com...askbridge.html

    Last edited by KC; 07-11-2017 at 09:36 AM.

  7. #3407

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    Screw that. We live in Alberta. Blow them up with dynamite.

  8. #3408

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moodib View Post
    Screw that. We live in Alberta. Blow them up with dynamite.
    And sell tickets for the event! Flak jackets and helmuts included. Might raise enough money to pay for the demolition too!

  9. #3409
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    The center section is now off the posts. Walterdale bridge by lunch should be completely off the water.
    My antidepressent drug of choice is running. Cheaper with less side effects!

  10. #3410

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    Quote Originally Posted by booster View Post
    The center section is now off the posts. Walterdale bridge by lunch should be completely off the water.
    Its past lunch and its not moved from where they did the first pick as you forgot they had to rerig to do the next pick later on most likely tonight like the last span.

  11. #3411

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    Hmmm 4:00 and the harness lines aren't even tightened. Not much daylight left. I bet they wait for tomorrow. The cutters have put in some long overnigh hours though, but a lift like this is 10X trickier under lights.
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  12. #3412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Hmmm 4:00 and the harness lines aren't even tightened. Not much daylight left. I bet they wait for tomorrow. The cutters have put in some long overnigh hours though, but a lift like this is 10X trickier under lights.
    makes sense as well

    Edit: Looks like they moved a bit more now
    Last edited by Dark Magnus; 07-11-2017 at 06:10 PM.

  13. #3413

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    Around 17:30 I watched as they unhooked the north crane. The span was centred on the south pier. There was no activity for a while after that but now it is straddling the south bank and the temporary support structure. I'm guessing it will be a pile of scrap by tomorrow morning. Side note: the workers unhooking the north crane were out right above the middle of the river, with the ice pans rushing through the gap below. Not enough money in the world for me.

  14. #3414

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    If they use explosives it will look something like this: https://youtu.be/Onm5zOA_HwY

  15. #3415

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    Sonofagun, it's moved! Those guys don't mess around...
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  16. #3416

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonk View Post
    If they use explosives it will look something like this: https://youtu.be/Onm5zOA_HwY

  17. #3417

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    The excavator feasting has begun!

  18. #3418
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    That is quite a pile of old bridge on the South bank. Wish I could have stopped to snap a pic.

  19. #3419

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    I asked the Walterdale Bridge people how the remaining piers will be removed and this was their answer:

    The concrete piers will be removed using a hydraulic hammer on the end of excavators, similar to using big jackhammers. No explosives will be used in the bridge demolition.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  20. #3420

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I asked the Walterdale Bridge people how the remaining piers will be removed and this was their answer:

    The concrete piers will be removed using a hydraulic hammer on the end of excavators, similar to using big jackhammers. No explosives will be used in the bridge demolition.
    It sounds like they will hammer them down until they meet the bottom of the river. Sort of like an oversized but unnecessary nail.

  21. #3421

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    Were the berms built to act as cofferdams? If they were, one could excavate a ramp all the way down to the riverbed if need be.

  22. #3422

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voice View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I asked the Walterdale Bridge people how the remaining piers will be removed and this was their answer:

    The concrete piers will be removed using a hydraulic hammer on the end of excavators, similar to using big jackhammers. No explosives will be used in the bridge demolition.
    It sounds like they will hammer them down until they meet the bottom of the river. Sort of like an oversized but unnecessary nail.
    No, they'll be busted up like concrete (and asphalt) is generally. Like a jackhamer on a backhoe, but bigger.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  23. #3423

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonk View Post
    Were the berms built to act as cofferdams? If they were, one could excavate a ramp all the way down to the riverbed if need be.
    They're watered and rolled road crush (broken rock and sand) so a ramp could be possible. Since they answered so quickly I'll ask.

    If they get to it like they got to the metal works we won't have to wait long to see.
    Last edited by Spudly; 09-11-2017 at 08:27 PM.
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  24. #3424

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    I asked last night about the piers and here's what I got this morning:

    ...the piers will only be removed to 1 m below the bottom of the river bed. All concrete footings below this level will remain permanently in place.
    I could ask further about the how of it but it seems to me that bashing the piers from the top and pulling out the rubble would be the simplest method of removing the piers once they've been removed to the level of the jetties.

    Once the crawler cranes are disassembled (one of them half-done already) we should see the bashing begin.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  25. #3425

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    Nice info, Spudly. If the river bed ever drops to expose enough of the remaining footings to be a navigation hazard, well we already have bigger problems.

    Another thought: maybe they don't have to worry about water. As long as it stays cold, the top X cm of the berms exposed to the air will be frozen. The water is already pretty close to 0, any dampness lower in the berm will freeze once exposed as they chip away at the piers.

  26. #3426

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    Regarding the piers.

    I think they had a shiny new bridge and so wanted clear lines of sight so everyone could admire it from afar. So the old bridge and the piers had to go.

    I think that’s too bad. The piers alone could have served as bases for interesting sculptures or art to further enhance the area.



    Old bridge concept
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/showt...t-to-Waterdale

  27. #3427

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    Getting worried about the ice jams that have been hapening for the last few days the river has risen to almost the top of the berms is this because of the lrt berms downriver?

  28. #3428

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    The LRT berms are way down past two bends in the river, too far away to be of significance.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  29. #3429

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    Ice jams can become a hazard both upstream and when they break, downstream.
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  30. #3430

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    Meteorites are a hazard too!
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  31. #3431

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    Don't be silly.

    Ice jams can quickly cause significant damage and flooding.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 12-11-2017 at 10:38 AM.
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  32. #3432

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    Meteorites are just as dangerous and just as relevant to this situation.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  33. #3433

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    A red herring and not related to the issue at hand. Sharks are dangerous too.
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  34. #3434

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    Nothing a little dynamite can't solve.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  35. #3435

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    Sharks with lasers are truly to be feared!

    There was an interesting surge on the river yesterday I viewed on the North live cam. In the morning the ice was still, unusual because I've gotten used to the river always moving. I thought the cam was misbehaving because sometimes it just freezes, but I could see vehicles passing over the bridge. Then around noon I noticed that the upstream ice was moving but the downstream ice wasn't. Ice coming from upstream was surging over the ice downstream. Not piling up, just riding over top, very slowly. Then about an hour later all the ice was moving again.

    Today it's back to still and fractured and dead-looking.
    I feel in no way entitled to your opinion...

  36. #3436

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    The old north pier is getting jackhammered today.
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  37. #3437

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    They should use the cement to make a weir.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  38. #3438

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    There really wouldn't be enough rubble to make much but gravel for a drainage base layer - there's a rebar cage to deal with in each pier. There are probably environmental regs about using clean rock of certain dimensions for anything that has to be in the water.
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  39. #3439

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    I came across a contract bidding term that I did not know but I was aware in practice that is often used when making bids.

    Now I know the official name and see that it may be applied to this signature bridge.


    Suicide bidding
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_bidding

    Suicide bidding is a response to a tendering exercise in which a potential supplier, anxious to win business, submits a proposal to carry out the work for less than it will cost.


    - The motive for such bidding is to keep the company's skilled labour employed, even if the project only breaks even or makes a loss.


    - This can result in poor quality work, poor service and debates over loopholes in contract wording in attempts to charge clients extra, or even insolvency on the part of the contractor.


    - The practice has particularly been noted in construction bidding. A 2010 survey by the Chartered Institute of Building found that 82% of respondents believe that “suicide bidding” exists within the industry.


    - The Civil Engineering Contractors Association acknowledged that the practice had become "rife" in the desperate competition for work during the late-2000s recession, but blamed the public sector procurement process for focussing on the lowest price rather than best value
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  40. #3440
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    Never heard that specific term. Most people in the industry say something along the lines of "on yeah, so and so has been buying a ton of work lately." One of the big problems with that kind of practice, is that many companies are just flat out bad at estimating, so they don't even really know what their true cost is or will be. So when they decide to bid a project at or near their cost to keep the lights on or to expand market share, they end up losing a ton of money on the project. And if they're aggressive enough and bidding everything in sight, one company can almost by themselves destroy an entire market segment. If they have deep enough pockets (and their management dumb enough), they can do so for years.

    There was one specific mechanical contractor bidding multi-unit and mixed-use projects in 2013-15 in Edmonton and Northern Alberta that screwed up the entire industry. And all they managed to do was put themselves out of business and take something like 5-10 million dollars of private equity money and flush it down the toilet, leaving a string of horrible, problematic installations in their wake. Meanwhile, the other mechanicals in that market space struggled to match their incredibly low prices, sub-trades and suppliers were forced to wait for payment, and so on. It was a total mess. Even before they went out of business, most knowledgeable GC's/CM's had basically banned them from bidding on any future work.

    Concreate did much the same thing for an extended period in the bridge building/rehab market in Edmonton: http://edmontonsun.com/2012/05/26/qu...a-a6f0dbd5c0ed
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 14-11-2017 at 12:32 PM.

  41. #3441
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    There is definitely zero margin bidding happening right now in the industrial sector.
    It is going to take a while for the weak ones to burn through their cash reserves and either be bought out or close their doors.

    I have no reason to believe that Acciona or Pacer took this project at zero margin or a loss. The time of project tendering was not post oil collapse and there are only a handful of contractors that would quality to build a project like this. That term really isn't relevant to this project.

    However, it is another failed attempt at offshore procurement that rippled and has likely caused a major loss to the contractor JV.

  42. #3442
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    Any idea when the lighting feature is coming?
    www.decl.org

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  43. #3443
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Any idea when the lighting feature is coming?
    Call these guys...
    http://www.jatec.ca/featured-projects/new-to-jatec/

  44. #3444
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    ^ Cool, been wondering about that. Be nice to show if off to YVR-snobs at Xmas.
    ... gobsmacked

  45. #3445
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    Here's my prediction: they will have a grand opening next year once all the construction work is completed (they still have the east pedestrian walkway and river bank restoration left to do), and they will reveal the bridge lights at that time.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  46. #3446

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    Quote Originally Posted by millwoods View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    Not that I've seen them testing. But there are a couple of big crates with NOMA written on them.
    So I did a little digging and found that the "Kinetic Lighting System" in the video above was in the project tender. See link below:

    http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER...an11nIvQ%3D%3D

    So bringing this back up as the bridge still has no lighting. I confirmed in this previous post that the really neat Kinetic LED lighting system was in the project tender. Was it scrapped?

  47. #3447
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    Maybe they traded the led lighting in for a load of plates they were short of

  48. #3448

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Maybe they traded the led lighting in for a load of plates they were short of
    Or the LED lighting came from a supplier in Korea but the two electrical systems don't match so they have to wait another season to get an alternative LED system.

  49. #3449

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    Walked by this evening and there was water in the hole as they were jackhammering away. That answers the cofferdam question.

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