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Thread: Kathleen Andrews Transit Garage - North East | Planning/Discussion

  1. #101
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    That path could easily connect directly to the path south of Coliseum across the bridge over 118, and it wouldn't be to hard to make it connect properly towards Belvedere Station and to whatever is north. It won't be busy, but it wouldn't be essentially abandoned if it were actually connected and signed.

    I'm not holding my breath, though.

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    ^ Disagree, I think it would be very, very busy.. probably one of the best used commuter bike routes in the city if it were built
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  3. #103
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    It would attract a decent number of bike commuters, but there will never be significant numbers of pedestrians because the distance is too long, and fewer recreational riders because it passes through some ugly industrial.

    That said, I encourage everyone to give it a try; the view from the bridge over the Yellowhead is just as captivating as over the river, and it's an oddly peaceful place, where the traffic streams below you but really doesn't intrude.

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    It would attract a decent number of bike commuters, but there will never be significant numbers of pedestrians because the distance is too long, and fewer recreational riders because it passes through some ugly industrial.
    I do agree with this point, however we do have ample recreational cycling or strolling opportunities in the city already. What we are seriously lacking is commuter routes, so that's where I see this as being a major asset.
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    Wow.. That's a big building
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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'd like to see the stack incorporated in the art. Imagine it were wrapped in big bright ribbons, being "climbed" by a fanciful beast, or with a stained glass lantern on the top, lit up at night to be seen by LRT Riders.

    Oh, and there should be access from the new and underused bike path along the tracks to get to the stack and whatever art appears. Otherwise we're spending $1m on a decoration for a place for bus drivers on split shifts to smoke and eat lunch.
    LOL! I had a similar thought. I was envisioning a 40' King Kong in classic pose hanging at the top of the stack.
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  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonicboom View Post
    $1M Public art call released for Edmonton’s future Northeast Transit garage

    The city’s largest call for a single public art piece to-date went out Wednesday, with the total project at the Northeast Transit garage worth $1 million.

    It’s a new record for the city, with other public art pieces not coming close to the total for a singular piece of art.

    “Since this site has so much going on around it, is visible from great distances as well up close, the decision as made we’d go for a large piece for the most impact,” said Eva Marie Clarke, Edmonton Arts Council communications co-ordinator.
    http://metronews.ca/news/edmonton/13...ransit-garage/


    Nice. A million dollars since this facility will have so much public appeal and access for everyone to enjoy it.

    Seriously, someone needs to table legislation to kill this money wasting art funding. Or at least cut it to 1/50th of the current percentage.

    If designers want to incorporate useful art into a project, have locals participate and incorporate it. Paintings, mosaics, etc.


    This is Edmonton's example of 'Voice Of Fire'.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_Fire


    That means the average Edmonton citizen has no Voice on how their tax dollars are wasted, and can only stew in a rage of Fire.

  9. #109

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    Building looks good!

    Don't agree with the $1million price tag for the public art because, really, who's going to see this? Maybe half of that would have been ok, but that's just me.

  10. #110

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'd like to see the stack incorporated in the art. Imagine it were wrapped in big bright ribbons, being "climbed" by a fanciful beast, or with a stained glass lantern on the top, lit up at night to be seen by LRT Riders.

    Oh, and there should be access from the new and underused bike path along the tracks to get to the stack and whatever art appears. Otherwise we're spending $1m on a decoration for a place for bus drivers on split shifts to smoke and eat lunch.
    LOL! I had a similar thought. I was envisioning a 40' King Kong in classic pose hanging at the top of the stack.
    Best I could find...

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    Thing is, it could be seen from a good distance. Unlike something on the ground which might obscured from many viewpoints by a honkin' great bus garage.
    Nisi Dominus Frustra

  12. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    It would attract a decent number of bike commuters, but there will never be significant numbers of pedestrians because the distance is too long, and fewer recreational riders because it passes through some ugly industrial.
    I do agree with this point, however we do have ample recreational cycling or strolling opportunities in the city already. What we are seriously lacking is commuter routes, so that's where I see this as being a major asset.
    Anyone know if there are any plans of extending the multi-use trail to Fort Road through these lands? It would be a missed opportunity if they don't.

  13. #113
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    The CTV News piece on $1M art - as expected, people on the street reactions were all cranky old blue hairs:
    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?cli...ylistPageNum=1
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    It would attract a decent number of bike commuters, but there will never be significant numbers of pedestrians because the distance is too long, and fewer recreational riders because it passes through some ugly industrial.
    I do agree with this point, however we do have ample recreational cycling or strolling opportunities in the city already. What we are seriously lacking is commuter routes, so that's where I see this as being a major asset.
    Anyone know if there are any plans of extending the multi-use trail to Fort Road through these lands? It would be a missed opportunity if they don't.
    It already goes to 66 along the tracks past this lot. The trouble is, it's not continuous between 117 and 119aves, it kinds dead ends at 66 and it was never announced or otherwise publicized. Few know it's there, but it has been, for about a year and a half now.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Eyes View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    It would attract a decent number of bike commuters, but there will never be significant numbers of pedestrians because the distance is too long, and fewer recreational riders because it passes through some ugly industrial.
    I do agree with this point, however we do have ample recreational cycling or strolling opportunities in the city already. What we are seriously lacking is commuter routes, so that's where I see this as being a major asset.
    Anyone know if there are any plans of extending the multi-use trail to Fort Road through these lands? It would be a missed opportunity if they don't.
    It already goes to 66 along the tracks past this lot. The trouble is, it's not continuous between 117 and 119aves, it kinds dead ends at 66 and it was never announced or otherwise publicized. Few know it's there, but it has been, for about a year and a half now.
    I know. But what I mean, is at point just before it ends at 66, i would like to see the path fork and go by Smokestack and connect to Fort Road. You could even have forks from main multi-use trail that connect to Fort Road at south end and north end.

    Also agree that a connection needs to be made between 117 and 119. This is such an under-rated potential bike corridor.
    Last edited by Snake Eyes; 10-04-2015 at 11:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    I'd like to see the stack incorporated in the art. Imagine it were wrapped in big bright ribbons, being "climbed" by a fanciful beast, or with a stained glass lantern on the top, lit up at night to be seen by LRT Riders.

    Oh, and there should be access from the new and underused bike path along the tracks to get to the stack and whatever art appears. Otherwise we're spending $1m on a decoration for a place for bus drivers on split shifts to smoke and eat lunch.
    LOL! I had a similar thought. I was envisioning a 40' King Kong in classic pose hanging at the top of the stack.
    Best I could find...

    unrealitymag.com
    Forget King Kong.
    It's gonna be a million $ pole dancer if my submission wins.

  17. #117

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    Does Edmonton region have any connection to specific birds? That would be neat on the top of the smokestack
    youtube.com/BrothersGrim
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  18. #118
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    So this is a city project but I can't seem to find the information on the city website.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Komrade View Post
    Does Edmonton region have any connection to specific birds? That would be neat on the top of the smokestack
    The impressive Trumpeter Swan? Take that Grande Prairie (aka Swan City)!

  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmcowboy11 View Post
    So this is a city project but I can't seem to find the information on the city website.
    here's the art call: http://publicart.edmontonarts.ca/calls/

    council meeting minutes: http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/a...a&itemid=38414

    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...l_Profiles.pdf

    http://sirepub.edmonton.ca/sirepub/a...a&itemid=44820

    need more? http://bit.ly/1IVdxxf

  21. #121
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    ^Thanks lots of good info. Although not to sound ungrateful, I was hoping to see a site plan of whole property including the garage and more in particular what kind of space are they proposing for the smoke stack as well as where the public art could go?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  22. #122

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    more digging around for Edmcowboy11: The replacement garage will be known as the "Kathleen-Andrews-Transit-Garage" So if your googling around, you'll see several links to newspapers that have all had their story/rendering pulled. (sigh)
    I'll keep seeing if I can find a rendering with my googlefu

  23. #123

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    Here's the best I've been able to find... its not so great.


    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca via google image search

  24. #124

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    info on Kathleen Andrews and the garage named after her: http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...sGaragePkg.pdf

    2nd page has a site plan (but no renders)

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    ^That's awesome work, thanks for your efforts. Well it does give a bit of an idea for the site layout. The one part I find interesting is the "Future 125 ave" that would link 66st to Fort Road. I'm assuming as well that the smoke stack is around that side (east) of the bus garage.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  26. #126

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    we likely haven't seen more because things are still being finalized.

  27. #127
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    Most likely true.

    On a side note Admin should change the thread to "Kathleen Andrews Transit Garage - North East | Planning/Discussion"
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  28. #128
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    This project is supposed to begin this summer. There is some major construction going on at the Clareview Town Centre as well.
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  29. #129
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    Thought I'd bump this post as the North East Transit Garage is in full excavation mode. Lots of heavy equipment on the property. If your in the area can anyone take some photo's please?
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    Lots of crap being unearthed. Looks like Canada Packers just knocked stuff down and filled in the hole with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Lots of crap being unearthed. Looks like Canada Packers just knocked stuff down and filled in the hole with it.
    Correct. A large portion of the basement was filled over and never ripped out. Yes they have alot more than they thought at first.
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  32. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Lots of crap being unearthed. Looks like Canada Packers just knocked stuff down and filled in the hole with it.
    Correct. A large portion of the basement was filled over and never ripped out. Yes they have alot more than they thought at first.
    The City knew it was there. There has been previous assessments done on the property, hence all the groundwater wells (reds posts). They are going to start digging up the left over contamination in September and start building the 350 transit parkade shortly thereafter.
    Last edited by Cypher; 15-08-2015 at 12:02 AM.

  33. #133
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    I wonder if the Fort Road interchange will be redone to accommodate the additional buses.
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  34. #134
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    ^ Not sure if there will be 2 entrances one West on Yellowhead or one on Fort Road. Don't see much of a Yellowhead/Fort road interchange.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Cat View Post
    I wonder if the Fort Road interchange will be redone to accommodate the additional buses.
    No.

  36. #136

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    So from the Metro Line discussion we were getting to the prospect of a $1 million work of art here.

    Does anyone have access to the images included in the survey now?
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  37. #137

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    I take it, no.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  38. #138

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    The old Imperial Lumber yard was a auto wrecking yard decades before. That site was contaminated as well.
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    Speaking of the Voice of Fire I remember back then there was a show made where some guys went out to the hardware store, paint store etc and got materials and made the exact same painting for around $400. Almost enough to make a grown man cry. Some of these artists must have a big laugh over how idiots give big money for crap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    The old Imperial Lumber yard was a auto wrecking yard decades before. That site was contaminated as well.
    I don't recall the Imperial lumber yard. What has that to do with this thread?
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  41. #141

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    The Imperial Lumber site is where half of the garage is being built upon. It is the block of land immediately SW of the Capital Packers site, west of Mount Lawn Road and the garage straddles both sites.
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    ^ I'm still lost, just North of the ball diamond?
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  43. #143

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    Looks like the site for the new garage has changed. I think it is a better location for it to be honest, if it indeed has moved.

    Similiar placement as the south garage centennial, near anthony henday except north.

    http://majorprojects.alberta.ca/deta...Transit-Garage

  44. #144
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    The garage site Fort Road/Yellowhead has been under heavy excavation now since about June of last year.
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  45. #145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mauler View Post
    Looks like the site for the new garage has changed. I think it is a better location for it to be honest, if it indeed has moved.

    Similiar placement as the south garage centennial, near anthony henday except north.

    http://majorprojects.alberta.ca/deta...Transit-Garage
    Looks like the Alberta Government has got their information wrong. Pray tell me, "How is THAT possible?"
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  46. #146
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    Notley's PR might be the same people that misspelled opportunity on Iveson's sign?
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  47. #147
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    It appears that there is work on that entire site, although the entire site wasn't all going to be bus barn was it?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  48. #148
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    ^ I'm pretty sure the whole site id all ETS.
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    Perhaps the AB government subcontracted the software development to Thales.

  50. #150
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    ^ In what way?
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  51. #151
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    I was being highly sarcastic.

  52. #152

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    Looks ok except for the ugly old 'heritage stack' that needs to get knocked down first.


    Lots of slow earthmoving on the site over the last couple months. I'm assuming things will pick up speed once the ground completely thaws.

  53. #153
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    "Ok?" Looks pretty sharp for a "parking garage."

  54. #154

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    A barn and chimney



    I am being highly sarcastic.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-02-2016 at 03:47 PM.
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  55. #155

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    Again knocking it out of the park architecturally. (Again how is TWOSE the only civic project not able to get this kind of talent?)

    I would hope it builds some pride in ETS, and doubly that it coincides with the high-frequency, straight-line system.

    Tripley that it comes packed with electric buses.

    Okay, even I admit that's four different threads in one post.

    Looks awesome, will build some pride in the organisation. Onward and upward.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post


    Looks ok except for the ugly old 'heritage stack' that needs to get knocked down first.


    Lots of slow earthmoving on the site over the last couple months. I'm assuming things will pick up speed once the ground completely thaws.
    Why? It adds character. The very reason this city is so sterile is that we have removed so much of what made this city look different and gives a certain look and feel.Edmonton has kept very little over the past 30+ years. To you a an "ugly" stack.Opinion noted. Well like it or not, it is a part of our city's historical relevance. And for that I'm thankful we still have it. Unlike so many other structures we ought to have kept which in our ignorance, we destroyed for the sake of "progress"
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  57. #157

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post


    Looks ok except for the ugly old 'heritage stack' that needs to get knocked down first.


    Lots of slow earthmoving on the site over the last couple months. I'm assuming things will pick up speed once the ground completely thaws.
    Why? It adds character. The very reason this city is so sterile is that we have removed so much of what made this city look different and gives a certain look and feel.Edmonton has kept very little over the past 30+ years. To you a an "ugly" stack.Opinion noted. Well like it or not, it is a part of our city's historical relevance. And for that I'm thankful we still have it. Unlike so many other structures we ought to have kept which in our ignorance, we destroyed for the sake of "progress"


    What is so historically relevant about an incinerator smokestack from a meat processing plant? You know, where they used to burn diseased animals and garbage.


    If anything the stack is reminder of the empty polluted lot that festered there for decades. Better to clear if from memory and be done with it.


    It isn't even a good integration with the new barn design. Looks more like something that the designers didn't bother to get rid of due to cost or inconvenience.


    I would totally turn back the clock to save structures of historical significance, such as old city hall, Telger, Arlington, etc.

    This vertical turd is not one of them.

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    I do wonder why they spent efforts to designate that smoke stack a historic site, but the city did.
    http://www.edmonton.ca/city_governme...-register.aspx

    I think that more efforts should have been spent on saving stuctures rather than a smoke stack.

  59. #159

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    I can see it now, take a inside tour of the Canada Packers Smokestack. $12 admission
    Tour lasts 90 seconds
    PS Please bring your own PPE, bio suit and Scott Pak
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    ^ Pre requisite for the tour must be thin
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    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by blainehamilton View Post


    Looks ok except for the ugly old 'heritage stack' that needs to get knocked down first.


    Lots of slow earthmoving on the site over the last couple months. I'm assuming things will pick up speed once the ground completely thaws.
    Why? It adds character. The very reason this city is so sterile is that we have removed so much of what made this city look different and gives a certain look and feel.Edmonton has kept very little over the past 30+ years. To you a an "ugly" stack.Opinion noted. Well like it or not, it is a part of our city's historical relevance. And for that I'm thankful we still have it. Unlike so many other structures we ought to have kept which in our ignorance, we destroyed for the sake of "progress"


    What is so historically relevant about an incinerator smokestack from a meat processing plant? You know, where they used to burn diseased animals and garbage.


    If anything the stack is reminder of the empty polluted lot that festered there for decades. Better to clear if from memory and be done with it.


    It isn't even a good integration with the new barn design. Looks more like something that the designers didn't bother to get rid of due to cost or inconvenience.


    I would totally turn back the clock to save structures of historical significance, such as old city hall, Telger, Arlington, etc.

    This vertical turd is not one of them.
    It is more than obvious you haven't a clue aside from what you perceive. I'd assume by your commentary you have or had a vested interest in this area at some point.You opinion is noted though inaccurate.
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    What I fail to understand is why the opposition to an INDUSTRIAL icon being included in an industrial setting. Sounds a tad like a pretty boy crying syndrome. As I stated, it adds character to what will be just another bland,mono coloured,sterile box.
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    Does anyone have aerial drone that can get some pics of the site as it stands now or conventional photos of the site under excavation? Please and Thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I can see it now, take a inside tour of the Canada Packers Smokestack. $12 admission
    Tour lasts 90 seconds
    PS Please bring your own PPE, bio suit and Scott Pak
    Quote Originally Posted by envaneo View Post
    ^ Pre requisite for the tour must be thin
    Hopefully they clean out all the used condoms and syringes first.

  65. #165

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    Today:

    Let's make Edmonton better.

  66. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cnr67 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by knowitall View Post
    Lots of crap being unearthed. Looks like Canada Packers just knocked stuff down and filled in the hole with it.
    Correct. A large portion of the basement was filled over and never ripped out. Yes they have alot more than they thought at first.
    The City knew it was there. There has been previous assessments done on the property, hence all the groundwater wells (reds posts). They are going to start digging up the left over contamination in September and start building the 350 transit parkade shortly thereafter.
    "a lot more work than they thought at first"*

    I understand the need to drill test wells etc, but the idea that there's more old demolition material than expected that needs to be removed seems crazy. What's always so amazing is that assessments, investigations, etc. have to be done at all. Many of the people that originally did it are still here.

    Moreover, contractors, designers, architects, workers, etc. have long memories plus are part of the community. In extreme examples, the idea that they could start to build a "sky palace" for the premier and none of them "step up" to blow the whistle or even just talk about what is going on is astounding. Contractors bury the building here (probably completely legitimately so) not even that long ago, and can no one just ask them what the contract entailed?

    * or is it a ploy or tactic to get the contract. "Gee, it just looked like a dirt field, but this is exceptional, so we need to charge more than our original bid".
    Last edited by KC; 25-09-2016 at 08:31 AM.

  67. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I understand the need to drill test wells etc, but the idea that there's more old demolition material than expected that needs to be removed seems crazy. What's always so amazing is that assessments, investigations, etc. have to be done at all. Many of the people that originally did it are still here.
    It's not crazy. The lack of environmental practices and documented information back in the day is laughable, hence the need for assessments. Those who "closed" that area years ago aren't around anymore, and wouldn't comment on all the specifics even if they were still here.

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Moreover, contractors, designers, architects, workers, etc. have long memories plus are part of the community. In extreme examples, the idea that they could start to build a "sky palace" for the premier and none of them "step up" to blow the whistle or even just talk about what is going on is astounding. Contractors bury the building here (probably completely legitimately so) not even that long ago, and can no one just ask them what the contract entailed?
    Nobody blew the whistle because it was totally in line with practices at the time. They knew what the contract entailed regarding the closure, but lacked specifics in certain areas, as it was not needed per regulations at the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    * or is it a ploy or tactic to get the contract. "Gee, it just looked like a dirt field, but this is exceptional, so we need to charge more than our original bid".
    There's already a lawsuit pertaining to this project regarding this.

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    Yesterday:

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    https://globalnews.ca/news/4227518/1...edium=Facebook

    This is amazing. A 10 million dollar change order, mostly to reinforce the structure, to accommodate electric buses which are heavier (how was this not anticipated?)...because the buses park over an underground parking structure.
    Seriously? The new bus storage has underground parking? How does that get approved if it's for on-site staff/drivers? Do COE or ETS have to pay for their on-site parking? I can't think of anywhere with free on-site underground parking for staff...that would be ridiculous.

  71. #171

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    Free underground parking for staff? An example is the one they built in front of the legislature a few years ago. Average cost was reported as $250k per space. Nice untaxed benefit for staff. In both cases why could they not just offer free ETS passes and encourage staff to take transit? The LRT runs by both locations.


    Opps, I forgot that in Edmonton, the largest union of transit workers must have a Royal Palace to work in and we must protect their monopoly.

    Does anyone know of a private transportation company that has their entire fleet indoors and underground parking for staff? Do they do this for school buses? How about any of the trucking companies? FEDEX? Anyone?
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  72. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4227518/1...edium=Facebook

    This is amazing. A 10 million dollar change order, mostly to reinforce the structure, to accommodate electric buses which are heavier (how was this not anticipated?)...because the buses park over an underground parking structure.
    Seriously? The new bus storage has underground parking? How does that get approved if it's for on-site staff/drivers? Do COE or ETS have to pay for their on-site parking? I can't think of anywhere with free on-site underground parking for staff...that would be ridiculous.

    My wife's employer offers free underground onsite parking downtown. It's a taxable benefit, but doesn't cost her anything.

  73. #173
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    Very bad planning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4227518/1...edium=Facebook

    This is amazing. A 10 million dollar change order, mostly to reinforce the structure, to accommodate electric buses which are heavier (how was this not anticipated?)...because the buses park over an underground parking structure.
    Seriously? The new bus storage has underground parking? How does that get approved if it's for on-site staff/drivers? Do COE or ETS have to pay for their on-site parking? I can't think of anywhere with free on-site underground parking for staff...that would be ridiculous.
    Doesn’t surprise me at all. The city offices were moved into the most expensive office space in the city. The city doesn’t care about cost or value in anything they do

    But free parking is pretty common actually. I don’t pay for my reserved u/g spot, and we have one at the Brownlee as well that we don’t even use
    Last edited by 240GLT; 24-05-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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    It's clear the city doesnt really care about transit or having people use transit when they'll actively do what they can to encourage more driving.

    It's a barren wasteland at this garage. They didn't need underground parking. This isn't downtown where there may not be anywhere else to park.

    Seems our city can't build any project correctly...

  76. #176
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    That article does not say what the underground parking is for, whether it's for staff parking or for additional bus parking.

    That being said, what consequences are there for the project management team that botched this? How was this not anticipated? 3,000 lbs per bus sounds like a lot, but that's likely only about 10% more than the diesel buses, give or take. Why was the structure designed for such low tolerances in the first place? Why does the city continue to botch major infrastructure projects and put taxpayer dollars at risk through incompetence and mismanagement?
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 24-05-2018 at 09:56 AM.

  77. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4227518/1...edium=Facebook

    This is amazing. A 10 million dollar change order, mostly to reinforce the structure, to accommodate electric buses which are heavier (how was this not anticipated?)...because the buses park over an underground parking structure.
    Seriously? The new bus storage has underground parking? How does that get approved if it's for on-site staff/drivers? Do COE or ETS have to pay for their on-site parking? I can't think of anywhere with free on-site underground parking for staff...that would be ridiculous.

    My wife's employer offers free underground onsite parking downtown. It's a taxable benefit, but doesn't cost her anything.
    What private companies do for employee parking is their business. If your wife works downtown, it is often cheaper to build underground than purchasing surface lot space. The transit garage is in a brownfield site surrounded by CN tracks, LRT and Fort Road with plenty of space for parking. The garage is paid with public taxpayer money, not a private interest. The point is that the COE is spending an exorbitant amount of money on this and every garage and insist that the bus fleet is indoors which is not the norms of private industry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by DanC View Post
    https://globalnews.ca/news/4227518/1...edium=Facebook

    This is amazing. A 10 million dollar change order, mostly to reinforce the structure, to accommodate electric buses which are heavier (how was this not anticipated?)...because the buses park over an underground parking structure.
    Seriously? The new bus storage has underground parking? How does that get approved if it's for on-site staff/drivers? Do COE or ETS have to pay for their on-site parking? I can't think of anywhere with free on-site underground parking for staff...that would be ridiculous.
    Doesn’t surprise me at all. The city offices were moved into the most expensive office space in the city. The city doesn’t care about cost or value in anything they do

    But free parking is pretty common actually. I don’t pay for my reserved u/g spot, and we have one at the Brownlee as well that we don’t even use
    I don't to obfuscate two issues, the COE consolidated offices for efficiencies supposedly which had a business case to support the RFP. I don't think that is appropriate context, to me it's outside this discussion.

    To build a bus barn, with underground parking below the storage area for the buses from a practical and logistical standpoint seems completely ridiculous. I can't think of any heavy maintenance facility that has done this.

    As for free parking, underground parking outside the downtown (let alone free...though we don't know what this parking is for or if it is free), is almost unheard of and i don't believe free underground parking is all that common unless it's factored in as a benefit, the majority of people i know that work in the core have to pay for parking or have the parking included as part of the total compensation.

    I would love to know all the details on this, because at the surface this seems like a total botch job resulting from an already platinum plated bus barn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    That article does not say what the underground parking is for, whether it's for staff parking or for additional bus parking.

    That being said, what consequences are there for the project management team that botched this? How was this not anticipated? 3,000 lbs per bus sounds like a lot, but that's likely only about 10% more than the diesel buses, give or take. Why was the structure designed for such low tolerances in the first place? Why does the city continue to botch major infrastructure projects and put taxpayer dollars at risk through incompetence and mismanagement?
    No kidding. Seems to be a whole lot of fact free speculating going on about the underground parking.

    Regarding relative weights of diesel compared to battery electric, here is a link to a New Flyer brochure that says the curb weight of a 40' diesel bus is 26,000 lbs compared to 30,500 lbs for the same length battery electric bus.

    https://www.newflyer.com/site-conten...sior-Final.pdf

    Don't know if the City will procure its electric buses from New Flyer or another manufacturer. If the latter, the relative weights might be somewhat different.

  80. #180
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    Yeah, that's where I got my 10% guesstimate from. Or 10-15%, to be more accurate. So again, why was the tolerance so tight that significant structural reinforcement was required? Especially in light of the obvious transition to electric buses in the immediate to near future, and the well known additional weight that would result in? Batteries are heavy! Is the city building infrastructure for today, or for 20-40 years down the road?

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    I believe underground parking was provided because they had to excavate the site anyways. So it was sort of a bonus at the time, as you would have had to replace all that fill with material if you don't place the parking there. Pretty sure it's not bus parking related, just staff parking.

  82. #182

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    That is a far more expensive option than building at grade. Laying a reinforced slab at grade is standard practice in 99 percent of industrial buildings, warehouses and maintenance garages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    That is a far more expensive option than building at grade. Laying a reinforced slab at grade is standard practice in 99 percent of industrial buildings, warehouses and maintenance garages.
    Contaminated site I believe. They HAD to excavate. I'm fully aware how buildings are built.

  84. #184

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    My building was built on a contaminated site as well, less than a kilometer away. It made no sense to build underground because compacted fill is cheaper. Surface lots are cheaper than underground. Also as far as LEED certification, much greener IMHO Lots of heat is lost in underground garages due to ventilation requirements
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 24-05-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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    Ah I didn't know you were on the design team for this building and were able to compare the costs of underground parking vs compacted fill and surface in this case. I mean, depth and extent of the fill required are completely obvious by just looking at a render right?

    And somehow you'd be able to fit in the surfacing parking, despite there being very little uncommitted space for that on site?

    Or your'e just assuming the design was done in the most expensive way possible?

    Someone decided, after the design was complete and tendered, that the buildings requirements changed. That's why this is expensive. it's not even clear how much extra the structural reinforcement is vs the other associate costs.

  86. #186

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    I did not know that you had to be a goose to know how an egg is laid...
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    So how is this project been coming along?

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    Its going good. Lots of external dirt has been removed.
    Mom said I should not talk to cretins!

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