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Thread: Hyperloop - Viable Method of HST?

  1. #1

    Default Hyperloop - Viable Method of HST?

    http://www.theverge.com/2013/8/12/46...peed-hyperloop

    According to the plans, the Hyperloop would transport passengers in aluminum pods traveling up to 800mph, mostly following the route of California's I-5. The estimated cost would be $6 billion for passenger-only model, or $10 billion for a larger model capable of transporting cars.
    I think this idea could have some traction for heavily used transportation corridors in Canada. If this idea ever does come to fruition I think it would be a great idea smaller population bases here in Canada.

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    Given that they set a minimum distance of around 900 miles (1500 km), I'm not sure where we could use it in Canada. Toronto to Montréal comes to mind but that's only 500 km.

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    I thought they said that was about the maximum, at which point planes make more sense? Regardless, this doesn't seem like something that's going to ever be particularly common place or viable. It's too "fixed", only addresses medium distances, and would require a pretty huge investment. Just playing around with numbers, if such a link cost 6 billion between Los Angeles and San Francisco as he claims, even at 5% interest and ignoring operating costs it would cost 300 million a year to finance. He mentioned that it would be $20 a ticket. That means 40,000 one way tickets a day just to cover the infrastructure investment financing, let alone operating costs or profit. Not to mention that the actual final cost is likely to be a lot more.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23677205

    He said the concept would best work between cities closer than 1,000 miles, because beyond that supersonic air travel would be preferable.
    Ah, he qualified that supersonic air travel would make more sense over longer distances.

    Neat idea, it'll be interesting to see if anyone else like China or some rich oil emirate would go ahead and build their own.
    Last edited by Marcel Petrin; 13-08-2013 at 08:51 AM.

  4. #4

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    Reminds me of that monorail episode of the Simpsons.

    "Hyper means fast, and loop means loop. And that concludes our intensive 3 week course."

  5. #5

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    ahh I read the bit about the distance afterwards, but yeah, I agree, definitely an interesting idea. If not people, maybe this can be modified to move goods up to the Oilsands? or other implementations.
    "What we achieve inwardly will change outer reality" - Plutarch

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    I thought they said that was about the maximum, at which point planes make more sense? Regardless, this doesn't seem like something that's going to ever be particularly common place or viable. It's too "fixed", only addresses medium distances, and would require a pretty huge investment. Just playing around with numbers, if such a link cost 6 billion between Los Angeles and San Francisco as he claims, even at 5% interest and ignoring operating costs it would cost 300 million a year to finance. He mentioned that it would be $20 a ticket. That means 40,000 one way tickets a day just to cover the infrastructure investment financing, let alone operating costs or profit. Not to mention that the actual final cost is likely to be a lot more.
    .
    That sort of logic does not make sense for infrastructure, it never pays back in 'direct terms' but is still needed. Take for example another lane on the QE2, or the ring roads which have cost billions but paid back nothing directly. The benefits of infrastructure are real but shared across the entire economy in economic growth. A lot cheaper than the HSR California voters have approved.

    If this works and can transport cars, its very interesting, especially if costs less than HSR or new freeways.

    Seems 900k (edit per below 900m) is a sweet spot though:

    Shorter distances don't allow enough acceleration time, while over longer spans, the document speculates that supersonic planes may end up being both faster and cheaper.
    It won't stop along the route, not sure if towns in between cities would like that.
    Last edited by moahunter; 13-08-2013 at 01:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Seems 900k is a sweet spot though
    Nit: 900 miles

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  8. #8

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    ^my bad. Calgary to Vancouver perhaps? That's 660 miles, Edmonton to Vancouver? Ridership wouldn't justify I think.

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    Could you build this thing through the mountains between Calgary and Vancouver? I know it follows the existing road, but mountain roads tend not to have much usable adjacent right of way.

    Eve

  10. #10

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    You'd also be restrained by the turns radius needed in the mountains. The faster it goes, the bigger the turns need to be. You'd also have to watch your changes in grade although that can be mitigated somewhat by varying the heights of the support pylons.

    Edmonton to Vancouver might actually be easier that Calgary - Vancouver if the followed the Yellowhead 16/5 to the Coquihalla and then into Vancouver. That being said, it would still be a big payout for a fairly small return.

  11. #11

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    ^imagine 30 minutes to Vancouver though, with your car... Whistler here I come...

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Seems 900k is a sweet spot though
    Nit: 900 miles
    Hmmm, shorter might work:

    In a 57-page white paper released Monday, Musk estimates Hyperloop could traverse the 400-mile (640-kilometer) distance between Los Angeles and San Francisco in about half an hour while traveling at speeds of nearly 800 miles per hour (1,287 kilometers per hour).
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...se-skepticism/

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    Sounds like it work at shorter distances it's just the 900+ miles is the most efficient.

    For going through mountains I expect it would have to go through the mountains, meaning tunnels similar to the ones you find in the Alps. That would likely drive the cost way up though.

    I think it's a moot point, though. Musk seems uninterested in developing it and I doubt anybody else is going to leap at what is really a fancy back of the napkin idea.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  14. #14

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    Per one of those links it has to slow down in the mountains and non-straight locations, so I don't think it needs to tunnel or similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Per one of those links it has to slow down in the mountains and non-straight locations, so I don't think it needs to tunnel or similar.
    My point was that it would need a tunnel if it wasn't going to slow down. This is the same as rail.

    An interesting point I did see was that the proposed high-speed rail link in California could move up to 12000 people per hour (8400 at a projected 70% usage) while the Hyperloop would move 28 people in two minute intervals for 840 people per hour or 544 at 70%. So 10% the cost to move 7% of the people.

    On the face of it it still looks like if you want to move lots of people efficiently you need trains.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  16. #16

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    PDF explaning the concept with maps, diagrams & numbers. Note that SpaceX is another one of his endeavors.


    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/f...a-20130812.pdf

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    An interesting point I did see was that the proposed high-speed rail link in California could move up to 12000 people per hour (8400 at a projected 70% usage) while the Hyperloop would move 28 people in two minute intervals for 840 people per hour or 544 at 70%. So 10% the cost to move 7% of the people.

    Take a look at the PDF again. It's standard operating capacity is 840 (25% capacity), 28/2 minutes. It's max is 28/30 second departures = 3360/hour

    10% cost 10% of people at standard capacity and at max capacity 28% of the people. Much different numbers plus energy usage is way lower so those costs alone are massive. Electrical bills for HSR are pretty substantial one would think..

    " 1. Capsule: a.
    Sealed capsules carrying 28 passengers each that travel along the interior of the tube depart on average every 2 minutes from Los Angeles or San Francisco (up to every 30 seconds during peak usage hours)."
    Last edited by IdriveaSubaru; 14-08-2013 at 01:48 AM.

  18. #18

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    When this was first announced, it reminded me of an old 1970s TV show that portrayed similar technology; Strange New World or Genesis or something or other.



    Emerging train technologies thread
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...ad.php?t=33272

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    When this was first announced, it reminded me of an old 1970s TV show that portrayed similar technology; Strange New World or Genesis or something or other.
    Science International a.k.a.What Will They Think Of Next, with Joeseph Campanella and Tiiu Leek ? ITV used to run it in the morning.

    I remember the later melodic part of that intro quite well, but completely forgot the overbearing zombie apocalypse beginning to the theme.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

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    This is the program I remember: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Here_Come_the_Seventies

    Still waiting for the flying cars.

    Eve

  21. #21

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    The Hyperloop as proposed is for passengers reclining in seats, with airline-level baggage accommodations. It is (even more) theoretically possible to build a model that could transport cars, but that is not what is being proposed and the costs would be way higher.
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  22. #22

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    Hope his Los Angeles to San Francisco test route is not on a earthquake fault line.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Hope his Los Angeles to San Francisco test route is not on a earthquake fault line.
    Why would this be worse than any other transportation system on a fault line? Given it's lower passenger capacity this could actually be safer in an earthquake than a train.

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  24. #24

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    I guess if they are thinking it's purposely O.K. to build it on a fault line and an earthquake happens, but does not kill as many people, well I guess we would just be splitting hairs on how many people are killed or maimed.
    I have conversed with the worst kind of hectoring, bully pulpit smart-a**e*; dripping with virtuous self-aggrandizing sanctimony.................. and that's just on this forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I guess if they are thinking it's purposely O.K. to build it on a fault line and an earthquake happens, but does not kill as many people, well I guess we would just be splitting hairs on how many people are killed or maimed.
    I'm pretty sure it's almost to impossible to build something like this in California without it crossing a fault line:


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    I wonder if something like this would be popular with cargo traffic, given the potential time savings compared to train or airplane. Also, I'm thinking something like this could be compared to the Chunnel between the U. K. and France. Eurostar is accessible to all European cities from London.

    Also, this could be practical on something like a Calgary-Edmonton-Fort McMurray line
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  27. #27

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    Hyperloop an old idea.

    I found this in a May 1965 Popular Science
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  28. #28

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    ^what about the rand study that was basically word for word copied?

  29. #29

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    I honestly think that if we could do one it would be awesome.. i can imagine the twin cities of Calgary and Edmonton being 20 min apart.. (or even half an hour.) it would honestly be faster to jump on the LRT (in either city) go downtown, go to calgary and go to lunch, then it would be to drive across town and go to lunch in St Albert or Sherwood Park..

    If you want an urban lifestyle in the prairies we pretty much need this type of HSR (conventional is not good enough), not to mention we could do it a heck of a lot cheaper and a larger build then down there due to our open spaces and flat surface. plus, imagine the connection between Calgary/Edmonton and Toronto, or the east.. if it was only a 2-3 hour ride across this country i can imagine the huge boost to pan Canadian travel there would be.

  30. #30

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    And what would be the price of a ticket?

    Building a multi-billion dollar project to Toronto would have to recoup the construction and operating costs. Would you be as interested if tickets cost $1,000 or $2,000?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 09-09-2013 at 08:34 AM.
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    Musk himself has said that the case for the hyperloop starts to fall apart over distances much more than 1,000km in favor of traditional air travel, and possibly in the future, hypersonic air travel. Hypersonic air travel is going to get a lot closer to reality if Virgin Galactic proves to be successful and reliable. If the ultra-rich are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few minutes of weightlessness, and also are willing to pay hundreds of thousands to fly in private jets around the world, I would imagine combining the two also has the potential to be quite profitable.

  32. #32

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    True but he was using the 28 passanger model. (essentially a fast Bus). of course that wont compare to a 80-300 seat airplane. if you could build 300 seat hyper trains, for one the ticket prices in aggregate can go down, plus it would create a much bigger boost to the ability for the average Canadian to travel.

    as with all infrastructure if properly done correctly you only need to be net zero based upon the increased boost to the economy. you do NOT need to cover every doller with tikets.

    also I cant think of anywhere else on earth that a 3000km hyper train would work better then Canada, and maybe connect Canadians Physicaly as well as the internet connected us socaly.

  33. #33

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    Lets see, 300 hyper vehicles doing two round trips per day at 28 passengers with a 70% load, that is 23,520 passenger trips per day to Toronto.

    Is there such a need?
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  34. #34

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    I ment 300 people per hypertrain (a more mass transit model vs the "bus" style 28 passenger.)

    And if we build this we have to build it for the future.. not the need now. we probably don't NEED this now... but we also didn't NEED Gigabit fiber optic internet when the internet started with 24 and 56k modems.

    Its very simmiler too the Idea behind PRT, Get Person 1 from point A to B as fast and efficantly as possible. if we eliminate the driver error we can increase the efficancy and speed.

    When you talk about between major cities having fast, cheap, efficient rapid transit is very important. right now 95% of us do not have the luxury of using the expensive airline service. we have to drive or bus. the Airlines are not mass public transit.. they never have been. trains are and large passenger capacity hypertrains can be.

    even if it cost 30 billion dollars to build (with a good amortization of 30 years for infrastructure) that's only 33 dollars per Canadian.. something where after people can get across the country/alberta ridership itself should take care of operating costs.

    the savings in traffic accidents alone across the whole trans Canada/ highway 2 corridors would make it worth the costs.

  35. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by reportsyourpost View Post
    Oh look this in the wrong section and has nothing to do with Edmonton...
    ...
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  36. #36

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    Seems people are still working away at hyperloop, a suggestion here that the tubes should be verticle stacked, and that it may be cheaper to use carbon fiber:

    http://www.fastcoexist.com/3018674/f...-the-hyperloop



    This won't be a pretty form of travel (no windows), but sure looks like it could be effective, certainly an option for HSR if the developments continue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    ...

    This won't be a pretty form of travel (no windows), but sure looks like it could be effective, certainly an option for HSR if the developments continue.
    With air travel, even with a window seat, there's not much to see outside already. On a train like this give them HD wall screens connected to outside cameras as windows. Of course they'll likely just be watching movies on their tablets anyways.

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  38. #38

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    A tube called Hyperloop
    Tuesday, July 07, 2015 - 02:01

    Hyperloop Transportation Technologies says it's about to break ground on a full scale test track for it's revolutionary future travel means, the Hyperloop, which will take passengers through steel tubes at speeds potentially up to 760mph. Joel Flynn reports.
    ▶ View Transcript

    http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/07...Channel=118169

  39. #39

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    2016 is a breakthrough year for Hyperloop, says CEO
    6:33am EST - 01:33

    http://www.reuters.com/video/2016/01...Channel=118169

  40. #40

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    As a kid I loved watching the Gene Roddenberry series (Genessis, Planet Earth, Strange New World) where in one or all, they travelled around in underground tubes.. Also still trying to find a video of them spinning the metal disk they found in a cave and getting 3D computer graphics or something projected from it.

    Skip to 58 seconds. Watch to 1:25sec. Classic Gene Roddenberry intro.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmwl3-D62XE



    "An elaborate "Subshuttle" subterranean rapid transit system was constructed during the 1970s, due to the vulnerability of air transportation to attack. The Subshuttles utilized a magnetic levitation rail system. They operated inside vactrain tunnels and ran at hundreds of miles per hour. The tunnel network was comprehensive enough to cover the entire globe. The PAX organization inherited the still-working system and used it to dispatch their teams of troubleshooters."


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_II_(film)
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet_Earth_(TV_pilot)

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stra...levision_pilot)



    Looks like John Saxon is still going strong. Even coming to Canada for that FanExpoCanada thing in 2014.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Saxon_(actor)
    Last edited by KC; 07-01-2016 at 10:14 PM.

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    I'm sure that cargo will also be popular.
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    Not sure if large scale hyperloops will ever be built, I can see small systems 10 miles long or so. The cost of a hyperloop must be very similar to monorails with similar switching problems, HST will probably remain cheaper for the next little while.

    Ironically the system is somewhat more historical than futuristic as portions of the Beach Pneumatic Tunnel built in 1870 still exist beneath New York, but because of politics it never was expanded.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit
    Last edited by sundance; 08-01-2016 at 12:01 PM.

  43. #43

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    ^i see that it was on rails.

    So... How do they plan to keep these things upright and not at risk of spinning down the tube?

  44. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ^i see that it was on rails.

    So... How do they plan to keep these things upright and not at risk of spinning down the tube?
    The hyperloop cars are supported by a sort of ski.

    Each capsule floats on a 0.5-to-1.3-millimetre (0.02 to 0.05 in) layer of air provided under pressure to air-bearing "skis", similar to how pucks are suspended in an air hockey table, thus avoiding the use of maglev while still allowing for speeds that wheels cannot sustain.
    There'd need to be a force perpendicular to the direction of travel to get them to spin along that axis & in a sealed/confined space I don't see how that'd happen.
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  45. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ^i see that it was on rails.

    So... How do they plan to keep these things upright and not at risk of spinning down the tube?
    They should rifle the tubes for spin stability.
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  46. #46

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    Canadian hyperloop


    AUTHOR: ALEX DAVIES
    TRANSPORTATION DATE OF PUBLICATION: 10.04.16.

    THIS CANADIAN HYPERLOOP CONCEPT FEATURES A FAUX SUNROO

    https://www.wired.com/2016/10/hyperl...oncept-canada/

  47. #47

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    I am providing some engineering and compute to one of the hyperloop groups. Interesting concept and fun engineering exercise.

  48. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    ^i see that it was on rails.

    So... How do they plan to keep these things upright and not at risk of spinning down the tube?
    The hyperloop cars are supported by a sort of ski.

    Each capsule floats on a 0.5-to-1.3-millimetre (0.02 to 0.05 in) layer of air provided under pressure to air-bearing "skis", similar to how pucks are suspended in an air hockey table, thus avoiding the use of maglev while still allowing for speeds that wheels cannot sustain.
    There'd need to be a force perpendicular to the direction of travel to get them to spin along that axis & in a sealed/confined space I don't see how that'd happen.
    Keeping an air hockey table flat but keeping hundreds of kilometers of pipe perfectly level on unstable ground is challenging at best,possibly impractical at worst .
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  49. #49

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    ^overly simplified analogy.

    There is ways to mitigate the risks. As long as you've got a deviation of standard within an acceptable range the vertical and horizontal deflections, even if over larger ranges are over a meanginful enough distance then the forces exerted on the passengers is essentially without concern. Large amplitude deflections if over short enough impulses may not meaningfully disrupt passengers or the vehicles.

    Physics is hard brah.

  50. #50

    Default Edmonton - Calgary corridoor perfect for Hyperloop

    “The idea, both with high speed rail and hyperloop, is that if you can make the journey fast enough and connected with the city cores, people will forego having a vehicle at their destination for the ease and speed of travel,” he said.


    A hyperloop would have some definite advantages over a train, according to Klumpenhouwer. First, a hyperloop would require land acquisition. With the tubes on raised posts, the footprint would be much smaller than a railway corridor, and could run across farmers’ fields like power lines.


    Another is flexibility. While a train runs on a set schedule, a hyperloop could accommodate passengers arriving at just about any time. Pods could leave as soon as they’re full during peak hours, or on a timed schedule when demand is low.


    Transportation expert Peter Wallis, president and CEO of the Van Horne Institute at the University of Calgary, said the hyperloop’s ability to have a flexible schedule would be a benefit to the market.
    https://www.metronews.ca/news/calgar...op-expert.html

  51. #51

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    I have a question. If there is a accident, fire or problem, how do passengers escape?
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  52. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I have a question. If there is a accident, fire or problem, how do passengers escape?

    Page 53 of the initial proposal is where the safety issues are dealt with:

    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/f...loop_alpha.pdf
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    I think the Hyperloop could also consider corridors like Highways 1, 3, 16, 43 as well as the QE II.
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  54. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    I have a question. If there is a accident, fire or problem, how do passengers escape?

    Page 53 of the initial proposal is where the safety issues are dealt with:

    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/f...loop_alpha.pdf
    Thanks for the document

    Nope, there is no mention of fire safety. That alone makes it a death trap if a electrical or other type of fire.

    Unless I am mistaken from what I have read so far, if there is a leak in the capsule, passengers are supplied airliner type oxygen masks. "The expected pressure inside the tube will be maintained around 0.015 psi (100 Pa, 0.75 torr), which is about 1/6 the pressure on Mars or 1/1000 the pressure on Earth."

    At that vacuum, masks are not sufficient protection. An airliner at 40,000 ft is in an air pressure of about 2 psi. There is no mention that Hyperloop will be operating beyond the Armstrong Limit and without a pressurized suit, passengers would be boil to death in their own bodily fluids. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstrong_limit

    The more I read, the more sceptical I become...
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 08-02-2017 at 02:41 PM.
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  55. #55

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    The only part of the entire system (in the alpha proposal document) with enough oxygen to actually support combustion is inside the hermetically sealed passenger compartment, behind firewalls & bulkheads from the powertrain. Given the similarities to passenger airliners I'd think that much of the fire protection & mitigation systems developed for airline cabins would be applicable to the pods.
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  56. #56

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    Opps

    Fire in the air is one of the most hazardous situations that a flight crew can be faced with. Without aggressive intervention by the flight crew, a fire on board an aircraft can lead to the catastrophic loss of that aircraft within a very short space of time. Once a fire has become established, it is unlikely that the crew will be able to extinguish it.
    Time is critical
    The following table from a UK CAA report in 2002 supports the generally held view that, from the first indication that there is a fire onboard the aircraft, the crew has on average approximately 17 minutes to get the aircraft on the ground
    http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Fire_in_the_Air
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    If anyone would be behind Hyperloop, I would have thought it was the guy with a fetish for another goofy, failed mode of transportation. Color me surprised!

    But in all seriousness, Hyperloop systems are interesting. I would think we'll see them first in various emirates and maybe somewhere in China and/or other developing countries. Not sure if it'll ever catch on in a big way, but in specific applications it could well make sense.

  58. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Opps

    Fire in the air is one of the most hazardous situations that a flight crew can be faced with. Without aggressive intervention by the flight crew, a fire on board an aircraft can lead to the catastrophic loss of that aircraft within a very short space of time. Once a fire has become established, it is unlikely that the crew will be able to extinguish it.
    Time is critical
    The following table from a UK CAA report in 2002 supports the generally held view that, from the first indication that there is a fire onboard the aircraft, the crew has on average approximately 17 minutes to get the aircraft on the ground
    http://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Fire_in_the_Air
    Seems like a solvable issue. The 'craft' will have to be able to be stopped for any breaches in the tube, so that mechanism should also assist in onboard emergencies. Maybe jettison the drive and the passenger compartment is separated to a safe distance before both sections are brought to an emergency stop.

    It's the terror related detection of implanted devices that would worry me. Ex. could someone drill a hole in the tube a shove a piece of rebar in it. That sort of risk.
    Last edited by KC; 08-02-2017 at 03:08 PM.

  59. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Opps
    I missed that part where planes weren't carrying flammable fuels nor travelling in an environment that doesn't support combustion. Maybe not carrying explosive fuel & travelling in a near-vacuum might have some impact on how fire propagates? Nah. Let's just look at your table that cuts off almost 20 years ago.

    Oops indeed.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  60. #60

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    It was just one reference. The Swissair MD-11 fire resulted in 229 deaths from a cabin electrical fire, possibly from the in-flight entertainment system

    Here are 45 more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...n-flight_fires

    Please note, these are mostly cabin and cockpit fires where the oxygen is.

    There was also the historic and tragic Apollo 1 fire


    How about decompression incidents
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncont..._decompression

    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  61. #61

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    Apollo 1 had a full-oxygen atmosphere & doors that opened the wrong way. Bringing it up is pretty much the pinnacle of hysterical fear mongering.

    Remember guys: if it's not expressly laid out in a document clearly labelled as an initial alpha-level proposal it's totally not been thought about & is in fact a huge unsolvable liability. If only Elon had consulted PRT, all of this wasted effort & innovation could have been prevented!
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  62. #62

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    Cherry pick as you will

    Fire is a real danger and there are no means of escape in Hyperloop
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  63. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    Cherry pick as you will

    Fire is a real danger and there are no means of escape in Hyperloop
    There's always a risk in everything. 480 people a year die in automobile fires in the US alone.

    Hyperloop has a significant amount of safety engineered in: No internal combustion engines, no flammable fuel, oxygen levels incapable of supporting combustion in energy-dense areas of the pods, multiple firewalls.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  64. #64

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    UNSAFE! No roll cages, no seat belts, no fire suppression, no protection from the elements! UNSSAAAAAAAAFE.



    Look at this deathtrap! Where's the safety features in here? Where's the fire extinguishers? The oxygen masks? UNNNNNNSAAAAAAAAFFFFEEEEEE!!!!



    These things'll never go anywhere. Look at how unsafe they are! Unsecured pressure vessel, literally powered by the combusting of similar materials to what the whole thing is made out of! What a nightmare! UUUUUUUUNNNNSSAAAAFFFFEEEE.
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  65. #65

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    Clearly, nobody's thinking about fire safety at all during the development of the technology...

    Oh.


    Wait.


    A team of University of Maryland (UMD) students are about to compete in an opportunity of a lifetime in SpaceX's Hyperloop Competition. What started more than a year ago as ambitious engineering ideas set to paper by several UMD students, including team captain and aerospace engineering student Kyle Kaplan, has transformed into a group of more than 60 students building a streamlined pod of the future that represents the '5th Mode of Transportation.'
    ....
    Mentored by UMD Department of Fire Protection Research Associate Noah Ryder, along with faculty and graduate advisors, the multidisciplinary team now includes more than 60 students from across UMD’s A. James Clark School of Engineering and College of Computer, Mathematical, and Natural Sciences.
    http://www.enfp.umd.edu/news/news_story.php?id=10257
    Giving less of a damn than ever… Can't laugh at the ignorant if you ignore them!

  66. #66

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    One big difference in the 3 counter-examples above is that they moved 10mph at best. Another is that none are ready-made tombs - escape the old-fashioned way: jump out.

    Still, let the kids try 'em out!

    Elon's already trying out his tunnel boring machine:
    https://www.wired.com/2017/01/inside...g-los-angeles/
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  67. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmonton PRT View Post
    It was just one reference. The Swissair MD-11 fire resulted in 229 deaths from a cabin electrical fire, possibly from the in-flight entertainment system

    Here are 45 more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catego...n-flight_fires

    Please note, these are mostly cabin and cockpit fires where the oxygen is.

    There was also the historic and tragic Apollo 1 fire


    How about decompression incidents
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncont..._decompression

    The plan for Hyperloop isn't a vacuum, but basically, low pressure, a partial vacuum, perhaps a bit lower than the cabin pressure inside an aircraft, to avoid many of the safety issues. Not sure why you hate it so much, its basically a version of PRT (which is why I'm a bit skeptical - will wait and see).
    Last edited by moahunter; 09-02-2017 at 04:42 PM.

  68. #68

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    You did not read my post #54 and the quote from the Hyperloop paper "The expected pressure inside the tube will be maintained around 0.015 psi (100 Pa, 0.75 torr), which is about 1/6 the pressure on Mars or 1/1000 the pressure on Earth."

    That is a vacuum to most of us.

    Now if I proposed a PRT system like that, the safety concerns would be seriously questioned. Even with various PRT systems I did propose, fire and evacuation was discussed at length so it is fair to question Hyperloop's design that places people in a sealed tube that is life threatening to even have a miniscule hole in any part of the capsule and traveling near Mach 1 compared to 50 or 70 kph.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  69. #69

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    ^you aren't getting it, the hyperloop vehicles include air compressors that pump air through the vehicle, lowering the air pressure immediately around them. The air pressure in the tube isn't that low though.

  70. #70

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    I took a direct statement from the report. Please show me otherwise.
    Advocating a better Edmonton through effective, efficient and economical transit.

  71. #71

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    ^maybe I am wrong, not sure. I guess we will see in time, I think its a cool idea, I have no idea if its practical. Like PRT (which hasn't economically succeeded anywhere), its probably not.

  72. #72
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    Hyperloop startup TransPod scouting Alberta for test track options
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...form=hootsuite
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Hyperloop startup TransPod scouting Alberta for test track options
    http://www.metronews.ca/news/calgary...form=hootsuite
    i think that media release was issued and printed a day early...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  74. #74

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