Results 1 to 73 of 73

Thread: What could Hinton, Edson do to attract tourists?

  1. #1

    Default What could Hinton, Edson do to attract tourists?

    I just heard on a radio interview about international travellers choosing Calgary over Edmonton because Calgary is closer to the mountains. (Nothing new there.) So of course I'm thinking that if there were more reasons to do the Yellowhead route, maybe we'd draw more people through Edmonton. (Ideally, we could get tourists to devote more time to seeing Alberta and it would be a win-win for both Edmonton and Calgary.)

    So, does anyone have any good ideas on creating or improving the tourist experience west of Edmonton, on Hinton, Edson or any point between Jasper and Edmonton?

  2. #2

    Default

    Wabumum could be turned into a real resort

    Hinton has a bike park but that's not much for a national or internatopional tourist attraction.

    Edson has... Edson has RCMP ready to ticket you for doing 55 in there long drawn out 50 zone...

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I just heard on a radio interview about international travellers choosing Calgary over Edmonton because Calgary is closer to the mountains. (Nothing new there.) So of course I'm thinking that if there were more reasons to do the Yellowhead route, maybe we'd draw more people through Edmonton. (Ideally, we could get tourists to devote more time to seeing Alberta and it would be a win-win for both Edmonton and Calgary.)

    So, does anyone have any good ideas on creating or improving the tourist experience west of Edmonton, on Hinton, Edson or any point between Jasper and Edmonton?
    My own take is that the "tourist experience" currently leaves a lot to be desired. People from the world over coming from urban high populated locations to go to vacation in Banff and Canmore in high populated locations. I don't get the appeal and usually opt for the road less travelled.

    I think to specifically target travellers that prefer less noise and bustle and can appreciate Jasper more for what its worth is an answer.

    Edson, I'm not sure how that town would be made more appealing. Hinton, different beast then Canmore with the latter being now essentially a tourist trappings town and the former being an industrial town (although Canmore used to be)

    I do believe a natural order will take place where Canmore and environs will continue to overrun and at some point inducing a tipping point where people suddenly don't want to travel to that corridor anymore and opt for relatively more pristine Yellowhead. I daresay the area remaining less disturbed might be the best thing we could do for it in the longrun.

    What I would recommend is lower impact temporary developments. Tent with amenity accommodations, acclimatizing tourists to more natural experiences. Using tent facilities that outfitters might have used, some rustic experiences, would really think a couple ice hotels would be a neat idea for winter.

    I think long range and with ever increasing habitat encroachment around the globe that Jasper and region will be the crown jewel at some point. But then I think it already is.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  4. #4
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    46,810

    Default

    Hinton could be another Canmore esque escape IF the mill was gone and they shaped things up a bit. I suspect it might also take another golf/ski resort setting up.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  5. #5
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Build a soccer field; and I will go there.

  6. #6

    Default

    Yeah, I don't see any reason why Hinton couldn't be Canmore North if that's what they wanted to do with it. But they'd have to want it, and work for it.
    “It’s so beautiful. What sort of bird is that?”

  7. #7
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Could do more promotion of the Cadomin Caves.

    But I think the biggest hinderance is the travel time across the northern Alberta parkland. Not enough people for revenue paying flights, and not a large enough population base concentrated in one of the three main communities.

    Still think the best thing would be to improve the railway so a daily VIA Rail passenger train could reach Jasper faster than any car driving.

  8. #8
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Hinton could be another Canmore esque escape IF the mill was gone and they shaped things up a bit. I suspect it might also take another golf/ski resort setting up.
    Where could you put another ski resort? Development in the park is unlikely to be approved, and east end of the park doesn't get a lot of snow so it could be difficult to find a good spot just outside the park.

  9. #9
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    1. Bypasses around Edson and Hinton.
    2. There are several lakes such as Wabamum Lake, Chip Lake and Obed Lake that could be turned into major resorts.
    3. There are mountains just east of Jasper National Park, so I reckon a Kananaskis type thing could go there.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Hinton could be another Canmore esque escape IF the mill was gone and they shaped things up a bit. I suspect it might also take another golf/ski resort setting up.
    Exactly... it looks like a truck stop.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  11. #11

    Default

    ^Yup.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  12. #12
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Hinton could be another Canmore esque escape IF the mill was gone and they shaped things up a bit. I suspect it might also take another golf/ski resort setting up.
    I don't think it's realistic to ever see that happening. It's a bit too far from the "true" mountains and Jasper itself (15 minutes for Canmore to Banff vs. 45 Hinton to Jasper, not even mentioning the travel times from Calgary/Edmonton respectively), and most of the ways to draw tourists to the area (golf courses, ski resorts, and other tourist traps) are likely to result in the Banff-ifcation of Jasper and area. Which I think most will agree is the last thing we really want to happen.

    Personally I'm fine with Jasper remaining a hidden gem and not being over run to the same extent that Banff is.

    Grand Cache is starting to take off to some extent as well, which I think is a good thing. It'll never be Canmore because it's not 100km from 1.3 million or so people, but there's lots of great wilderness areas nearby and potentially a ski resort if the numbers ever make sense. It has some cachet with the Death Race as well.

  13. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    Hinton could be another Canmore esque escape IF the mill was gone and they shaped things up a bit. I suspect it might also take another golf/ski resort setting up.
    Exactly... it looks like a truck stop.
    Years ago Canmore seemed to benefit from rising costs and visitor levels in Banff. Pocklinton's land assembly though I think was the early catalyst enabling all the future high-end development. Something I don't think could be easily replicated west of Edmonton.

    In Hinton, I'd ignore the mill issues beyond making it less visible to visitors. It's an economic entity that I doubt tourism could come close to replacing.

    The truck stop look though could easily be managed. Landscaping is cheap and like most smaller Alberta centres, landscaping receives a low priority despite its impact on first impressions. The appearance of the buildings is another matter. Little things might garner some more favourable reviews.

    Kananaskis sized developments would likely take a renewal of Alberta government interest in spending hundreds of millions in subsidizing development costs. (I don't know if any past promises were made.)

    I suspect Hinton and Edson are pretty much on their own and that some creative ideas or recognition of hidden assets will be needed to boost them to their potential.

  14. #14
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    1. Bypasses around Edson and Hinton.
    Edson, absolutely. Hinton would be nice too, but at least Hinton has 60 and 70 km/h zones, not a long 50 zone. Besides, I thought the idea was to attract tourists, not just make it easier for them to get to BC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    2. There are several lakes such as Wabamum Lake, Chip Lake and Obed Lake that could be turned into major resorts.
    There are opportunities here, but they are limited. Wabamun is already very busy on nice summer weekends, Chip is undeveloped but is mostly an overgrown puddle (very shallow), and Obed is tiny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    3. There are mountains just east of Jasper National Park, so I reckon a Kananaskis type thing could go there.
    Yes, one could install a bunch of snowmaking equipment on one of the slopes just outside the park to build a "Nakiska North". It would probably attract a fair number of day trippers from Edmonton, being 45 minutes closer than Marmot, but I don't see something like that having any appeal outside of the region.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Soccer_Addict View Post
    Build a soccer field; and I will go there.
    I love this response... haha. Thanks Soccer Addict.

  16. #16
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Capital Region
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Make the area around Hinton an adventure playground, quads/snow mobiles one area. Horse rides with 1, 2, 3, 5, 7 day treks into the back country in another area.
    Edmonton, Capital of Alberta

  17. #17

    Default

    There is already lots of areas for quads and skidoos to the north and south of Hinton. That is part of the problem, along with the incredible density of cutlines, roads, and gas & oil wells in some areas. There are a few companies offering horse trips into the Wilmore but you have to search a bit to find them.

    The country around Hinton is really nice but it is being abused and this will likely only get worse in the future as the population in Alberta continues to grow without the government putting the needed environmental protection in place. How about restricting random camping in some areas to preserve the wilderness experience?

  18. #18
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    1. Bypasses around Edson and Hinton.
    Edson, absolutely. Hinton would be nice too, but at least Hinton has 60 and 70 km/h zones, not a long 50 zone. Besides, I thought the idea was to attract tourists, not just make it easier for them to get to BC.
    I think shortening the time to get to Jasper would be of great benefit. It's a long, boring drive where you see nothing but bush, bush and more bush. One good reason for adding tourist attractions on the way to Jasper is to make that trip less boring.

    Besides, building the bypass routes will have opportunities to develop it right. Not to mention that it will attract the usual gas stations and Timmys stops along it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    2. There are several lakes such as Wabamum Lake, Chip Lake and Obed Lake that could be turned into major resorts.
    There are opportunities here, but they are limited. Wabamun is already very busy on nice summer weekends, Chip is undeveloped but is mostly an overgrown puddle (very shallow), and Obed is tiny.
    Depends on what you want to do in those lakes. Maybe it's too shallow for power boating...but swimming and fishing or lying on a Sylvan Lake type beach, or having world class golf courses nearby are other ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Titanium48 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    3. There are mountains just east of Jasper National Park, so I reckon a Kananaskis type thing could go there.
    Yes, one could install a bunch of snowmaking equipment on one of the slopes just outside the park to build a "Nakiska North". It would probably attract a fair number of day trippers from Edmonton, being 45 minutes closer than Marmot, but I don't see something like that having any appeal outside of the region.
    Kananaskis itself has more than just skiing though, there's a whole whack of other activities. It serves as an alternative to Banff for those who won't want to pay park fees, so likewise "Kananaskis North" would serve as an alternative to Jasper. But in order to make this a success outside of the region, it needs to be on a world class scale. So the question begs, who would bankroll this?
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 10-10-2013 at 01:28 PM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  19. #19
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,833
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    I just heard on a radio interview about international travellers choosing Calgary over Edmonton because Calgary is closer to the mountains. (Nothing new there.) So of course I'm thinking that if there were more reasons to do the Yellowhead route, maybe we'd draw more people through Edmonton. (Ideally, we could get tourists to devote more time to seeing Alberta and it would be a win-win for both Edmonton and Calgary.)

    So, does anyone have any good ideas on creating or improving the tourist experience west of Edmonton, on Hinton, Edson or any point between Jasper and Edmonton?
    Back in that thing called the EXPO 2017 bid...

    I, along with a couple others, was planning on spearheading a Highway 16 vacation zone project. Kananaskis north was the working title....

    One centrepiece I had was a transformation of the Wabamun plant site...a project I had intimate knowledge of. It..along with items in Lloyd, Veg, Edmonton, Wab, Edson, HInton, Cougar/Brule, Jasper, and even Valemount...was designed to be a legacy of 2017 to this area of the province...and eventually expand to include Saskatchewan and areas in BC.

    I posted the Wabamun vision here...and have since taken it down.

    Many issues were raised...most around change. Most towns actually did not want this transformation, the potential crowds, and the work it would take to move it forward. Other stakeholders pulled back when they found out the work involved.

    I applaud the effort and idea KC. It needs to come back up.
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  20. #20
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    How many reservations are there on the way to Jasper? I would think some enterprising tribes could look into building these resorts on reservation lands.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  21. #21

    Default

    I don't know if this belongs in this room or another but here are my thoughts.

    My opinion might or might not be shared by others but a lot of this is revolves around politics. Attracting people to your city or region is about selling it as a product. Edmonton and Jasper as products are not as attractive as Calgary or Banff are simply because the latter are selling themselves often using media, word of mouth and the power of politicians. The top Provincial political leaders in Alberta for too many years have been from Calgary and guess which city they're going to sell first? I have no doubt behind closed doors Federal and Provincial politicians see greater advantages to selling Calgary and Banff over Edmonton and Jasper or other Alberta cities and towns because they are not as "established" or attractive or high end as Calgary or Banff. Politicians have the power to sway big business in the direction they want.

    Politicians rarely talk about or sell Edmonton/Jasper but they do sell Calgary/Banff. If you travel around Canada or northern United States you always hear about and see advertising that sells Calgary and sometimes Banff but rarely Edmonton and never Jasper. Anytime I've heard talk about Alberta, its always Calgary or Banff. People know those two cities but not any other because of city branding. When you mention festivals, venues or attractions to non-Albertans, nobody mentions the Fringe in Edmonton, they mention the Calgary Stampede. They don't talk about doing a tour of the Legislative building they talk about touring Olympic sites in Calgary. They talk about going for a hike in Banff or Canmore, not Jasper.

    It would be great if developers could bring something worth looking at in both Jasper and Edmonton that is majestic, awe-inspiring, and functional at the same time, something that has practical uses for businesses or residents living nearby. I like the direction Edmonton has taken with beautiful and unique buildings like Art Gallery of Alberta, City Hall, and the future Arena project. All look great (or will look great once complete), have practical uses, and/or bring in money. Edmonton needs more beautiful architecture, straight up! Big Art-Deco stone buildings like in Chicago or tall gleaming glass towers like in Vancouver. We have some but we need more towers to fill up the city's core and create more foot traffic. Downtown and Whyte Ave could benefit from more density of buildings as well as more people density. It would also be better for Edmonton to have more destination diversity, meaning more regional hotspots in Edmonton. Other than Whyte and Downtown, there aren't many fun spots to go to in the city that outsiders know about. What few we have comprise of buildings that are old and unattractive. When people from other provinces think of Edmonton, they only know about Jasper Ave and Whyte Ave. We gotta pump up other streets/avenues or areas where people could migrate to in the evenings or weekends and create energy or excitement.

    Less ugly buildings and more unique buildings will make our skyline standout and thus define our city. The arena project should be the beginning of a building boom in downtown and that's a move in the right direction. Jasper could use a change of culture in terms of commercialization. Whatever Banff and Whistler, B.C. are doing is exactly what Jasper needs if it wants to attract more visitors and create more buzz at a national level. Lets face it, packaging Edmonton with Jasper could work similarly to the Calgary/Banff package. Better and more numerous venues, nicer hotels and perhaps a second mountain to ski on would be huge attractions. None of this can happen unless people push for it or sell the idea. **I know this takes a lot of money and interest, I'm just throwing around some ideas**

    BTW, I don't care what the conservative minds in Edmonton think anymore. All I ever read are complaints about how we don't need change and that the city is just fine as it is. This discouragement keeps us from having any limelight or creating anything. If you have a good idea, whether its a business idea or something else, do what Americans do, don't complain about what others have, just brag about what you've created (assuming you've gone ahead and created it).

  22. #22
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    87

    Default

    ^Edmonton is for blue collar people. Calgary for office people. Both cities attrack good people.
    Last edited by Soccer_Addict; 11-10-2013 at 07:39 AM.

  23. #23
    First One is Always Free
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sherwood Park
    Posts
    74

    Default

    First, identify the target markets you want to bring to those areas, and tailor the message to suit them.

    I would divide it into three primary groups.
    1) High end Eco-Tourist. Global
    2) American Travellers on their way to and from Alaska
    3) "Locals" from AB, SK, MB and BC

    For group 1 - Market the area as the yet to be discovered (by tourists) wilds of the great Continental Divide. Businesses can tailor services and activities to suit the geography, and include a number of "adventures" throughout the foothills of, and including the Rockies. Speak of the ability to see the convergence of three of the world's largest geo zones, the Rockies, the almost extinct Aspen Parkland, and the world's lungs, the Boreal forest. These higher end travellers would also prefer to fly as close as they can to these locations, someone needs to start regular daily air service in a Twin Otter or Dornier to Jasper-Hinton airport.

    Group 2) A huge missed opportunity right now. There are a number of vehicles passing through Edmonton in either direction with Alaska and the Yukon, or home on their mind. Tailor marketing differently in each direction. Northwest bound, direct them on the "historic Yellowhead" as the start of your Yukon and Alaska adventure. Highlight Edmonton's role in the Klondike, role in building the Alaska highway, billboards starting 100km east of Edmonton outlining an alternative route along the Rockies up highway 40 and through Grande Cache. Highway 40 is a great drive.
    Southeast bound, tout the start of "civilized" life, music festivals, restaurants, etc.
    And there needs to be a vast improvement of the services offered along Yellowhead highway, both throughout the province and in the Captial Region. Need more gas stations, restaurants, roadside attractions that are easy to access, and re-enter. Think about a westbound traveller. Petro-Can at 142 on the right. Anything anywhere else on the right side between Brookville and Niton Junction?

    For Group 3) Find the Province of Alberta's tourism study from the late 80's, and start to implement some of the recommendations.

    By the way, has anyone noticed that Calgary is now claiming to be The Cultural Capital of Canada due to it's non-stop year round festivals?

  24. #24

    Default

    IMO you guys are looking the wrong way... What can we do to capitalize on Elk Island National park more.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  25. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fleogan View Post

    By the way, has anyone noticed that Calgary is now claiming to be The Cultural Capital of Canada due to it's non-stop year round festivals?
    Uhh Calgary was called that in 2010, http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1267468580182

    Edmonton was this in 2007. http://www.edmontonculturalcapital.com/

    Charlottetown was in 2011, and still calls itself this... http://www.ourculturalcapital.ca/
    Niagara in 2012... and now the program is shut down.

  26. #26
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,833
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    There are a few really good posts here...

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    IMO you guys are looking the wrong way... What can we do to capitalize on Elk Island National park more.
    ...that was a huge component of the plan we had during Expo. How can we make that more accessible w/o destroying what it is...


    Quote Originally Posted by Fleogan View Post
    First, identify the target markets you want to bring to those areas, and tailor the message to suit them.

    I would divide it into three primary groups.
    1) High end Eco-Tourist. Global
    2) American Travellers on their way to and from Alaska
    3) "Locals" from AB, SK, MB and BC

    (...)


    By the way, has anyone noticed that Calgary is now claiming to be The Cultural Capital of Canada due to it's non-stop year round festivals?
    Awesome thoughts...especially the services that are around Nojack, Niton, etc. The big issue is ingress/egress of vehicles. One thought was a couple of RV/Truck style stops that encapsulate both sides of the road similar to interstate exits on I15, I70, etc.

    Group 2 and the Yellowhead...this was advertised for some time in the exact fashion you mention, and targeted at that group. It did get some take from what I gather.

    Group 1 takes work. see below

    Group 3 - amen, and again one of the things we thought we could resurrect for 2017.


    Quote Originally Posted by spartan View Post
    I don't know if this belongs in this room or another but here are my thoughts.

    My opinion might or might not be shared by others but a lot of this is revolves around politics. Attracting people to your city or region is about selling it as a product. (...) Politicians have the power to sway big business in the direction they want.

    Politicians rarely talk about or sell Edmonton/Jasper but they do sell Calgary/Banff. (...) They talk about going for a hike in Banff or Canmore, not Jasper.

    It would be great if developers could bring something worth looking at in both Jasper and Edmonton that is majestic, awe-inspiring, and functional at the same time, something that has practical uses for businesses or residents living nearby. (...)

    Less ugly buildings and more unique buildings will make our skyline standout and thus define our city. The arena project should be the beginning of a building boom in downtown and that's a move in the right direction. Jasper could use a change of culture in terms of commercialization. (...) **I know this takes a lot of money and interest, I'm just throwing around some ideas**

    BTW, I don't care what the conservative minds in Edmonton think anymore. All I ever read are complaints about how we don't need change and that the city is just fine as it is. This discouragement keeps us from having any limelight or creating anything. If you have a good idea, whether its a business idea or something else, do what Americans do, don't complain about what others have, just brag about what you've created (assuming you've gone ahead and created it).
    I left your last paragraph intact because you've hit a root cause.

    Yes, politicians have sold (or not) areas they are interested in developing for their own reasons. That is what it is.

    Ugly buildings...that is up to the developer and the economic return that he/she/they can or expect to have. This is a lot larger question, and beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder...but yes...I see the point.

    Development in the National Parks...people think getting infill development approved and running in Edmonton is a convoluted mess of bureaucratic bungling and pious pretty people pursuing perfection...try it in Jasper. Ever since the Shelia Copps edict...it is harder yet. Hence why the Expo idea focused on Hinton/Brule and out to Valemount...we ran into issues in that conversation, but not as near as the "hell no" in Jasper.

    Getting these up and running will take focused work, and hard work. There seems to be an aversion to this in some areas. There is an expectation in many areas that things will just happen, that it can be done with the odd volunteer group, or that it is instantaneous and does not take work....lots and lots of work.

    The last part...bingo. This region has an amazing resistance to change. It is how I changed my career from the logistics and transportation world to Org Change Management...just trying to move things here in Edmonton and in other corporations outside the city gave me a great perspective on this. In Edmonton, we often look to John Q Public and Suzie Creamcheese as the problems...but forget to look inward. There is a huge resistance to change within the corporation itself.

    Good thoughts all...
    Tired of being taken advantage of .

  27. #27
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,387

    Default

    One thing that will help a bit is that Alberta is planning on twinning the last little bit of the Yellowhead between Highway 40 and the park. Although nothing is budgeted in the near future.
    http://www.transportation.alberta.ca/projects/west.aspx

  28. #28
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    ^ No mention of bypasses around Hinton and Edson, although such plans were on a long term planning map they had.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  29. #29
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Parkdale - Goldbar - Downtown
    Posts
    5,248

    Default

    I can't say that the few minutes you'd save with a bypass is really worth the massive expense of building them

    I drive that highway to BC all the time. The parts that get me are the park gate that doesn't have a through lane for people passing though (on a busy day you'll waste 10x as much time waiting for everyone buying passes at the gate as you spend driving though Edson) and the 70 sections in the park. Wildlife yes I know... but maybe discouraging the throngs of tourists from stopping right on the road to look at the pretty sheeps is a good idea, those wildlife corridors should be segregated from the highway, not integrated

    Once you hit the Tête Jaune Cache it's clear sailing.
    Parkdale

  30. #30
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    City of Champions
    Posts
    7,387

    Default

    I agree GLT the park gate needs a non-stop lane. You can now print a Banff park pass online now. Assumably because of it is a national park it would be valid in Jasper too.
    https://parkpass.banfflakelouise.com/

    Bypasses around Hinton and Edson would help a bit, but the bigger problem is the distance from Jasper to Edmonton versus Banff to Calgary. But its a fine line between developing too much and too little. It dovetails into the Maligne Lake hotel and the Brewster glacier overlook and the whole bit of how much development should occur in and near the park.
    Last edited by sundance; 15-10-2013 at 03:26 PM.

  31. #31
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    A bypass lane would help, but the national parks should really abolish entry fees and replace them with other user fees (parking fees, higher camping fees, hotel and lift ticket taxes, etc).

  32. #32
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    IMO you guys are looking the wrong way... What can we do to capitalize on Elk Island National park more.
    Well said. I gotta get my *** down to see some quality Aspen Parkland, from the highway Elk Island N.P. looks amazing.

    And regarding Edson, Hinton and the corridor to Jasper (especially south), simply put it's beat up from decades of industry. Good for hunters and fishermen, I suppose. And by the time you hike/fish/whatever into the actual mountains, everything changes because now you're in a National Park. Rules, regs, you name it. Due to geography, there's not a lot of mountains you can be in under Alberta's jurisdiction, unlike more south.

    I wished much so we had a K-Country of the north, and in a way we do. It's called Nordegg & area and it's almost as rustic backcountry as you'll see in Alberta, at least as a hiker. But parts of me wished Willmore Wilderness Reserve was a lot more like Kananaskis than just an outfitters playground. But hey, they need their spot too, so I understand. And because of where it is, it's not like it's going to attract a quarter of the numbers that go to K-Country every year. That I understand as well.
    Last edited by Kitlope; 15-10-2013 at 05:02 PM.

  33. #33
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Red Deer
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    ^ No mention of bypasses around Hinton and Edson, although such plans were on a long term planning map they had.
    The Hinton bypass was mentioned here (although the story was from 2005, so the 20 years mentioned would make it 2025): http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...2&postcount=54

    Technical report on Hinton traffic, including bypass proposals: http://www.hinton.ca/DocumentCenter/Home/View/556

    I also found the Municipal Government Board decision on annexation of land to Hinton, much of it to be used for a highway bypass to the south of town: http://www.municipalaffairs.alberta....gb/M063-09.pdf

    Announcement of the annexation in the Alberta Gazette: http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/o.../2009_441.html

    Edson has a bylaw with a proposed bypass south of the town: http://site1.townofedson.ca.webguide.../documents/767 (This downloads a PDF rather than opening it)

    There's also a mention in a planned subdivision on the east side of Edson from 2010: http://207.229.42.106/yellowheadcoun...staspfinal.pdf

    It's also mentioned as part of the 20 year Strategic Capital Plan back in 2008 (not sure if it's been changed since then): http://www.finance.alberta.ca/busine...pital-Plan.pdf (page 35)

  34. #34
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Red Deer
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    Canmore was a mining town while Hinton is more of a forestry town (with some oil & gas). Mining isn't as obtrusive as forestry so the land isn't as "tired" if the mines are off the beaten path. Canmore was actually on the decline until the 1988 Olympics came along (which explains why the Crowsnest Pass isn't a huge draw, either, despite being close to the mountains):

    "The coal mining industry in Canmore boomed well into the 20th century. In 1965, with a population of 2,000, Canmore was incorporated as a town. By the 1970s the market for coal was diminished, and in 1979 Canmore Mines Ltd. ceased operations. As a result of safety and reclamation policies instigated by the province of Alberta, all but a few mining structures were demolished in the following year; only the lamp house and a few mine entrances remain today.[4]

    Canmore's economic future seemed dismal until the announcement in the early 1980s that Calgary would be hosting the 1988 Winter Olympics, and that Canmore would play host to the Nordic events. This resulted in an increase in tourism, and Canmore began to develop into the recreational tourist destination it is today."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canmore,_Alberta

    So, it wasn't Canmore reinventing itself. Rather, it was having a huge outside catalyst (Olympics and tax money), and I imagine huge outside planning and development, allowing it to change to a tourist area.

    As well, Banff NP has the luxury of having two towns along the Trans-Canada. Plus Banff and Lake Louise were Canadian Pacific resorts to begin with. Jasper might've had more occupied areas but having the Athabasca River flood plain doesn't help. As well, having nothing until Prince George or Kamloops doesn't draw people to take the Yellowhead. It may have also been complicated by the land acquisition for the national parks in Alberta, which was less a conservational agreement between Alberta and the feds and more a "land for money" set of transactions during Alberta's lean days. Banff and LL may have been allowed to grow while Jasper stood still.

    So, it looks like it'll take some huge catalyst to transform the Yellowhead rather than trying to slowly change from within.

  35. #35

    Default

    I agree the Jasper Gates need a flow through lane as Banff has. Plus the feds need to 4 lane the highway and fence as Banff is. I do this trip to Jasper every 2 weeks so I have a good feel for the driving on it. Yes you need to slap the drivers that park in the middle of the highway to look at an elk. And fine them when they get out to look closer.

    As for the drive through Edson and Hinton. I find Edson the only real problem as the speed through town is so slow.

    Over all I find the drive to Jasper pleasant and not as hard as the drive from Calgary to Banff.

    Talking with a friend that owns a business in Jasper it’s not so much the Feds but the local “don't change Jasper ever” crowd that are the problem. The Feds know they need to develop the park better to raise revenue. And really Jasper does need a sprucing up it is looking dated and old.

  36. #36
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    Turning the Yellowhead into a freeway through Jasper National Park would require adding wildlife crossings plus barriers to keep the animals off the road. Also, many would argue that those up-close encounters with the bighorn sheep are part of Jasper's charm. In any case I doubt twinning through Jasper will happen any time soon.

    Personally I'd like to see a twinned Yellowhead all the way to Kamloops, but that's discussed in this thread:
    http://www.connect2edmonton.ca/forum...read.php?t=607
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 16-10-2013 at 11:07 AM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  37. #37
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    ^Even just installing some limited fencing and wildlife crossings so those 70 km/h zones could be eliminated would help.

  38. #38
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    Another option would be to build another 4 lane Hwy 16 for traffic passing through to BC, and change the current 2-lane Hwy 16 to Hwy 16A for tourists only. This would be similar to Hwy 1 and Hwy 1A running parallel through Banff National Park.

    Yes I am aware that we'll see pigs fly in a cold hell first before that is even considered.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Another option would be to build another 4 lane Hwy 16 for traffic passing through to BC, and change the current 2-lane Hwy 16 to Hwy 16A for tourists only. This would be similar to Hwy 1 and Hwy 1A running parallel through Banff National Park.

    Yes I am aware that we'll see pigs fly in a cold hell first before that is even considered.
    As long as pigs are flying, said highway should be in one giant tunnel that goes all the way under Jasper National Park

  40. #40
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Red Deer
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    One thing I forgot was that Canmore has Kananaskis, which is meant to be a tourist attraction. Hinton has Willmore Wilderness Park and William A. Switzer PP, both of which are supposed to little to no tourism. Grande Cache - little tourism. I'm not sure why the discrepancy between the two areas. Again, Kananaskis was not a local initiative but a provincial one, with taxpayer money again being thrown at it. So, it looks like any move towards making the Yellowhead more of an attraction will involve major provincial and federal involvement. The only reason it probably won't happen is because either the votes aren't there or are taken for granted.

    I believe just having a natural area will not bring people out to visit even if it does have some scenic areas. Wood Buffalo is a huge park but, outside of locals, does it even attract visitors in the 5 figure range?

  41. #41

    Default

    Hinton Honey Pot, king of Alberta speed traps... I think it's too late for their reputation now but I guess they're happy that they got a nice haul of cash before they trashed their own public good will. I'll just have to make sure, one, I go very slow through Hinton and two, that we don't stop there for lunch, gas or shopping or anything the next time we pass through Hinton.


    David Staples: Meet the Hinton Honey Pot, king of Alberta speed traps

    David Staples, Edmonton Journal
    October 6, 2016


    According to the local RCMP, we have no safety values at risk, nor is this a high-collision site,” Taylor says.

    It’s worth noting that the photo radar isn’t there to slow down folks coming into Hinton, to put a brake on drivers going from highway speeds and having to slow to safely make their way through the town’s commercial strip. Instead, you get to this photo radar site after you drive past all the businesses and it appears you’re on open highway again. Photo radar is set up a few hundred metres before you can legally drive 100 km/h again.

    Taylor became aware of the issue when he received a letter of complaint from an out-of-town driver. He had been hit with a ticket, then had his son hit with a ticket in the same spot a few hours later.
    ...

    “If you’re a private contractor and you have a choice between making $8,000 to $9,000 per hour or $200 to $300 per hour, where are you going to put your units?”

    Global Traffic had no comment, saying the program is administered by Hinton town bylaw officials.

    ...

    http://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/c...ta-speed-traps


    Funny, it reminds me of what Wells Fargo has done in the states.

    Wells Fargo Cross-Sells Its Reputation

    ...So in recapping a short week's worth of financial news, it's clear that the cross-selling of Wells Fargo's reputation for a boiler-room culture of oppressive sales quotas is the Trade of the Week. Don't try this one at home, folks.

    This type of story is ever more shocking when it happens to what was otherwise considered a healthy and wholesome brand. As healthy and wholesome as, say, Chipotle was -- at least until something about the business started making people sick to their stomachs.



    It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently. Warren Buffett

    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...uff108887.html


    “As I’ve said in these memos for more than 25 years,” he writes in the latest one, “we can afford to lose money–even a lot of money. But we can’t afford to lose reputation–even a shred of reputation.”


    http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2014/...is-everything/
    Last edited by KC; 07-10-2016 at 11:47 AM.

  42. #42
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton area.
    Posts
    6,939

    Default

    Nice legal brothels would bring in hordes of spenders.

  43. #43
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    I don't even know anymore :/
    Posts
    1,164

    Default

    Honestly if Hinton put some work into creating a town center/main street like Jasper, Banff, and Canmore and did some advertising I could see it become a tourist draw. There is honestly so much to do in the foothills, but the town is such a depressing place. Hinton is in the perfect location for excursions into the mountains, foothills and lakes, but there is no reason to stay there other than to get gas and food on the way to wherever you're going.

  44. #44

    Default

    Hinton will never be the Canmore of Jasper. The town's a dump, it smells, they rip off motorists, and now with Valemount going full resort-town, Hinton is forever doomed to be an oversized truck stop.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  45. #45

    Default

    ^ this.

    Like anyone could overlook the stench of the pulp mills. Completely incompatible with tourism. Sorry sacred cow, but you suck.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  46. #46
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Edmonton of course
    Posts
    1,147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBee View Post
    ^ this.

    Like anyone could overlook the stench of the pulp mills. Completely incompatible with tourism. Sorry sacred cow, but you suck.
    They can always move the tourists up and down the hill depending which way the wind is blowing . I kid I kid.
    live for happiness because without it everything seems ho hum

  47. #47
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton area.
    Posts
    6,939

    Default

    My brother has lived in Hinton for the past 20 years. I've only stopped for coffee once, my bad. Whenever I drive through he's off working somewhere though. I could never figure out why he'd live there, but he's an avid outdoorsman always camping, fishing etc. Maybe his wife said kiss me where it smells, so he moved to Hinton.

  48. #48
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    LOL you guys are cruel. The town isn't all that bad. There's worse in BC.

  49. #49

    Default

    Cadomin should be the Canmore of Jasper.
    Edmonton first, everything else second.

  50. #50

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitlope View Post
    LOL you guys are cruel. The town isn't all that bad. There's worse in BC.
    Nothing against the town, if only it were possible to consider it apart from its air quality.

    And the worse ones in BC are not named Kelowna, Windermere, or Whistler.

    Tourism or stench. They can only have one.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  51. #51
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    The town of Radium Hot Springs has a big noisy pulp mill but that doesn't deter that place's tourism trade.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  52. #52

    Default

    Went through Hinton this morning. Didn't stop. Didn't see any speed trap either but maybe the snowstorm kept the operators indoors. Did see photo enforced signage.

  53. #53

    Default

    ^^ you're welcome to enjoy it for me.
    Last edited by JayBee; 08-10-2016 at 09:02 PM.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  54. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    The town of Radium Hot Springs has a big noisy pulp mill but that doesn't deter that place's tourism trade.
    I've driven through Radium four times this year. It's a dump. There's the hot springs and that's it. Panorama/Invermere stole their thunder a long time ago.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  55. #55
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    31,183

    Default

    So what? Radium is still a busy tourist town. The resort we stay at in Radium is always booked solid all summer.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  56. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Went through Hinton this morning. Didn't stop. Didn't see any speed trap either but maybe the snowstorm kept the operators indoors. Did see photo enforced signage.
    Did see a photo radar vehicle in Hinton this morning - in a reasonable location.

  57. #57

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Cadomin should be the Canmore of Jasper.
    That may be so. Two older cabins on Lake Edith are selling for over $2 million each ($2.1-2.6 million). Hilarious that they are called "cottages" and not cabins. Taxes around $6,000 each. Leasing! So there's clearly significant demand near the Jasper town site.

    $2.15 million
    http://www.remax.ca/ab/jasper-real-e...d17331914-lst/

    $2.6 million.
    http://www.abwra.com/mls_detail;jses...s_number=40734
    Last edited by KC; 10-10-2016 at 04:36 PM.

  58. #58

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Cadomin should be the Canmore of Jasper.
    That may be so. Two older cabins on Lake Edith are selling for over $2 million each ($2.1-2.6 million). Hilarious that they are called "cottages" and not cabins. Taxes around $6,000 each. Leasing! So there's clearly significant demand near the Jasper town site.

    $2.15 million
    http://www.remax.ca/ab/jasper-real-e...d17331914-lst/

    $2.6 million.
    http://www.abwra.com/mls_detail;jses...s_number=40734
    Those are worth a lot because they're inside the park, and it doesn't seem like much is allowed to be built outside of the town, and there's not much being built in town either.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  59. #59

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chmilz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by KC View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Cadomin should be the Canmore of Jasper.
    That may be so. Two older cabins on Lake Edith are selling for over $2 million each ($2.1-2.6 million). Hilarious that they are called "cottages" and not cabins. Taxes around $6,000 each. Leasing! So there's clearly significant demand near the Jasper town site.

    $2.15 million
    http://www.remax.ca/ab/jasper-real-e...d17331914-lst/

    $2.6 million.
    http://www.abwra.com/mls_detail;jses...s_number=40734
    Those are worth a lot because they're inside the park, and it doesn't seem like much is allowed to be built outside of the town, and there's not much being built in town either.
    Still quite the premium but some people are more after the status (or ROI) than the experience. There's still quite an area of great outdoors out there.

  60. #60

    Default

    I had a friend whose family had a 99-year lease on a cabin on the lake. I thought all the cabins were leased like that. When did those lots become sellable?
    I am in no way entitled to your opinion...

  61. #61

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I had a friend whose family had a 99-year lease on a cabin on the lake. I thought all the cabins were leased like that. When did those lots become sellable?
    I knew someone with cabin there here too. Beautiful place. Their taxes (lease) was something like $99/yr then it jumped to near $7000 back in the 80s I believe. As far as I know all the cabin land is still lease land.

  62. #62

    Default

    Agreed Cadomin has better potential, but more like the Kanaskis (off the main highway) than the Canmore.

    If we want a park gateway community on the Yellowhead, it pretty much has to be Hinton, but clearly obvious why it's hamstrung.
    Let's make Edmonton better.

  63. #63
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,668

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I had a friend whose family had a 99-year lease on a cabin on the lake. I thought all the cabins were leased like that. When did those lots become sellable?
    They're not selling the lot/property. They're transferring the lease and selling the structure on the property, I would imagine. No one can own land within a National Park, as far as I understand it.

  64. #64

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudly View Post
    I had a friend whose family had a 99-year lease on a cabin on the lake. I thought all the cabins were leased like that. When did those lots become sellable?
    They're not selling the lot/property. They're transferring the lease and selling the structure on the property, I would imagine. No one can own land within a National Park, as far as I understand it.
    Inholdings. I'm not sure about national parks but I'm near certain that they still exist in some provincial parks.

  65. #65

    Default

    Hinton has a nice public library. Good collection and programming. The neighbouring rec center appeared well appointed.

  66. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ajs View Post
    Hinton has a nice public library. Good collection and programming. The neighbouring rec center appeared well appointed.
    Well, get the kids and pack up the car! We're going to... one of the amazing libraries and rec centres here and still not giving a crap about Hinton as the tourist destination it will never be.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  67. #67
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    406

    Default

    I know! Ridge or wave soaring in sail planes.

  68. #68
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Sherwood park
    Posts
    2,483

    Default

    Do Hinton and Edson want to attract tourists?

  69. #69
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Crawford Plains, Millwoods since 1985
    Posts
    2,737

    Default

    *Holiday Road flashback*

  70. #70
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Jasper has the ski hill, Marmot Basin.

    What Olympic winter sport could a facility be set up to host event and general public for experiences in Hinton or Edson? Bob sled? Biathlone? Quad/Snowmobile races?

  71. #71

    Default

    Hinton's Slogan:
    We are not Whistler.
    Gone............................and very quickly forgotten may I add.

  72. #72
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton (Norwood)
    Posts
    4,457

    Default

    ^ That's a good thing, but unfortunately they aren't Squamish or Pemberton either.

  73. #73
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,633

    Default

    Likely some sort of outdoor related micro-tourism - hunting, fishing, white water rafting, X-country skiing. Spelunking (yes, you heard that right) at Cadomin. (used to be a fantastic bed and breakfast there with a second floor hot-tub)
    ... gobsmacked

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •