Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 100 of 184

Thread: Don Iveson "dangerous" for Edmonton

  1. #1

    Default Don Iveson "dangerous" for Edmonton

    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.

    In 2009 the edmonton Sun gave Don Iveson a "D" rating as his job on council AND Iveson "dangerous" saying:

    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."

    AND

    "Don't put this rookie in charge of the finances."

    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience. Come on people! Wake up!

    See link here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo...76791-sun.html

    The Sun's latest story today Iveson says the most important thing about Edmonton is its potential.... not ppl. And he says the worst thing about Edmonton is...get this..."grumps."

    Seriously....what a joke.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/10/1...tions-answered

  2. #2
    Becoming a C2E Power Poster
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    161

    Default

    Looks like Iveson is now clearly the front-runner if he is attracting these kind of cheap attacks....

  3. #3
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    3,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."


    Top_Dawg has to admit, that's a pretty good one.

  4. #4
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    45,533

    Default

    ^hardly, but is that a bad thing?

    He most surely wants a better modal split and more opportunities for people to change their habits, ie. better bus/lrt/bike lanes etc., but he is not as left as many believe.

    During Council hearings, he is often one of the most aware and active Councillors sitting and while junior, carries himself and backs it up with good information most of the time.

    Gotta love people like TedFriends.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  5. #5
    C2E Continued Contributor
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    jasper east
    Posts
    1,526

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."


    Top_Dawg has to admit, that's a pretty good one.
    granola and bikes and transit?? no way!!

    http://i.minus.com/iFb7w0WQmlTPq.gif

  6. #6

    Default

    Well hello Ted...I am assuming you are the same one that was trying to get people onto that article on twitter yesterday. I think the problem is that being given a failing grade and labelled "dangerous" by the Sun...well...that doesn't mean much of anything it's predictable. It's not really surprising or notable and I think most people would have expected similar articles to be posted today. Perhaps more significant (and something people are actually talking about) is that in this election the Sun has actually been cautiously supportive of Iveson.

    Nice try...but I don't think your efforts are going to catch anybody who doesn't share you views already.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.
    I'm shocked someone takes the Edmonton Sun seriously.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience.

    Ha ha. I think it's hilarious when people use the term "life experience", as if it actually means anything.

    You don't even have to be good at anything to earn it - all you have to do is live long enough.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty Bear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.
    I'm shocked someone takes the Edmonton Sun seriously.
    They got something "write" when they fired Diotte

  10. #10
    C2E Posting Power
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Below that old white mountain, just a little southeast of Nome
    Posts
    623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience.

    Ha ha. I think it's hilarious when people use the term "life experience", as if it actually means anything.

    You don't even have to be good at anything to earn it - all you have to do is live long enough.
    I believe that is how Kevin Lowe got his GM role and then the promotion upstairs to whatever he is now...

  11. #11

    Default

    Wouldn't Edmonton have potential because of the people? It's just a matter of "turning them on and tuning them in?"
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  12. #12

    Default

    I love the smell of napalm in the mornin'!
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  13. #13
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    I'm with Iveson on the potential and the grumps.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  14. #14
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Edmonton - Blue Quill
    Posts
    3,061

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dusty bear View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by tedfriends View Post
    i'm shocked no1 remembers this.
    i'm shocked someone takes the edmonton sun seriously.
    bingo!!
    Fly Edmonton first. Support EIA

  15. #15
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,544

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    And he says the worst thing about Edmonton is...get this..."grumps."
    If the shoe fits, Cinderella...
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  16. #16
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    5,514

    Default

    Wow - well, let me pass on a big welcome to the new Canadian Tea Party

    Want scary? Kerry (Cec Purves) Diotte for mayor, Don Koziak in Ward 2 and Tony Caterina.

    That'd mean never-ending 10-3 votes on council ...
    ... gobsmacked

  17. #17

    Default

    Tony isn't nearly as bad as most people think...

    He gets an unfair rap.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    He gets an unfair rap.
    No, Caterina's reputation was earned. He's the one who pushed for City Center Airport expansion (which led to that huge fight and drama over it), and he opposed a downtown arena and opposed LRT expansion to NAIT.

    He has softened his stance on all of those over his last term in office, though.

  19. #19

    Default

    As you wrote.....

    "He has softened his stance on all of those over his last term in office, though."

    All the things you have remarked on are done and dealt with.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  20. #20

    Default

    Dude this isn't the USA... Believe it or not we actually embrace liberal forward thinking in this country.

    you are one step away from declaring Don has political weapons of mass destruction..

    God must hate Canada...

    Here lets also highlight some other wonderful backwards thinking ideas brought to us from the same stream of logic you seem to drink from...

    Abortion Leads To Cancer, Birth Defects, And Everything Else.. I am sure Don is pro choice.
    Would Don Iverson's supposed raping of Edmonton be Legitimate or not...
    Climate Change Doesn’t Exist, and If It Does It’s Caused By Trees.. I am sure Don wants to plant trees too
    Evolution Is (Still) Out To Get Jesus... I am sure Don hates Jesus and loves evolution too.

    Get a clue dude.

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.

    In 2009 the edmonton Sun gave Don Iveson a "D" rating as his job on council AND Iveson "dangerous" saying:

    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."

    AND

    "Don't put this rookie in charge of the finances."

    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience. Come on people! Wake up!

    See link here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo...76791-sun.html

    The Sun's latest story today Iveson says the most important thing about Edmonton is its potential.... not ppl. And he says the worst thing about Edmonton is...get this..."grumps."

    Seriously....what a joke.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/10/1...tions-answered
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-10-2013 at 10:59 AM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  21. #21

    Default

    What's dangerous is when some "one" who doesn't accept DEMOCRACY!

    AS diotte has demomstrated, showing his discontent for not getting his way, when he is out voted, which is now a historical fact! If more people agree on something and you lose, then why vote for a loser, who trys to bully the magority.

  22. #22

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Top_Dawg View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."


    Top_Dawg has to admit, that's a pretty good one.
    Granola isn't even healthy, its full of carbs and high in calories...

  23. #23
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    45,533

    Default

    ^which is great for active, walking, biking citizens
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  24. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.
    I'm shocked you couldn't be bothered to type out "no one"
    I think of art, at its most significant, as a Distant Early Warning system that can always be relied on to tell the old culture what is beginning to happen to it. —Marshall McLuhan

  25. #25
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    45,533

    Default

    ^comes with experience.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  26. #26
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    I'm shocked no1 remembers this.

    In 2009 the edmonton Sun gave Don Iveson a "D" rating as his job on council AND Iveson "dangerous" saying:

    "Iveson wants everyone eating granola and riding bikes or taking public transit to work."

    AND

    "Don't put this rookie in charge of the finances."

    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience. Come on people! Wake up!

    See link here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo...76791-sun.html

    The Sun's latest story today Iveson says the most important thing about Edmonton is its potential.... not ppl. And he says the worst thing about Edmonton is...get this..."grumps."

    Seriously....what a joke.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/10/1...tions-answered
    if don iveson is "dangerous" for edmonton, then edmonton needs a lot more dangerous...
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  27. #27
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Before I reply...I have to take pause and chuckle at how hypocritical some actions are...if this was another candidate being swiped at with rhetoric, vain attempts at memes, having old articles dug up in the name of "fact finding"...this would be all good to some. Have it appear on another...and it is the mother of all evil...


    Goose, gander...kettle, pot...

    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    (...)

    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience. Come on people! Wake up!

    See link here: http://www.edmontonsun.com/news/edmo...76791-sun.html

    The Sun's latest story today Iveson says the most important thing about Edmonton is its potential.... not ppl. And he says the worst thing about Edmonton is...get this..."grumps."

    Seriously....what a joke.

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/2013/10/1...tions-answered

    I don't think Don would "destroy" the city.

    I do get the "grumps" comment...and while a poor choice of words, the small but vocal group of continued naysayers both in the public and in administration get far too much play...along with a small group of special interest groups...who are actually quite grumpy in their own right.

    I agree that Edmonton has a large amount of potential...that is why I moved back and why I do the things I do. However, there is a large group that likes Edmonton to stay small.


    Don has a long way to go to win my vote...as do all the other mayoral hopefuls, but a destoryer of cities I have a hard time with...if elected...he still is only one vote in 13...



    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post

    Ha ha. I think it's hilarious when people use the term "life experience", as if it actually means anything.

    You don't even have to be good at anything to earn it - all you have to do is live long enough.
    Do NOT discount life experience...it is the very essence of your resume, and how you will react, act, and perform. It is the basis of how you think. It is why and how you are selected over another candidate, or not selected as te case may be. This sentiment is as grumpy and dismissive as the "grumps" comment dismisses those that want Edmonton to keep itself small.

    Life experience is a colossal benefit...a well rounded person with experiences and education is a force to be reasoned with...for while your diploma/degree proves that you were taught...your life experiences show how much you have LEARNED....or not.

    ...for I look at some things I wrote and said 20 years ago...and shake my head....
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  28. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Life experience is a colossal benefit...
    Only if you actually learn something from it.

  29. #29
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    45,533

    Default

    Life experience can provide you with perspective, should you choose to recognize it, which can be quite beneficial. I agree it should not be discounted.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  30. #30
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Life experience is a colossal benefit...
    Only if you actually learn something from it.
    Isn't that exactly what I said?
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  31. #31
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,544

    Default

    Age <> life experience
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  32. #32
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience.

    Ha ha. I think it's hilarious when people use the term "life experience", as if it actually means anything.

    You don't even have to be good at anything to earn it - all you have to do is live long enough.
    Ideally one would like someone who is smart AND has the life experience.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  33. #33

    Default

    Meh...

    Life experience in an established system.. no thanks. Life experience copying the same thing... No thanks. Life experience masquerading as status quo.

    Time to blow things up... we need change, new thinking. New, fresh, better, innovative these are the words we need to equate with Edmonton.

    In my "life experience" I just run around helping those people with more "life experience" get through today's world.

    I will take intelligence, the ability to be creative, critical things and problem solving over "life experience" and the innate cynicism that seems to come with it.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-10-2013 at 01:05 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  34. #34

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by TedFriends View Post
    Don would destroy this city with his lack of life experience.

    Ha ha. I think it's hilarious when people use the term "life experience", as if it actually means anything.

    You don't even have to be good at anything to earn it - all you have to do is live long enough.
    Ideally one would like someone who is smart AND has the life experience.
    I think energy is the most important thing. I'd rather have a mayor who implements things I don't like (better yet if its something I like), than a mayor who just dithers. IMO energy can make up for experience and even smarts (can surround yourself with that, although didn't work out too well for George Bush Junior lol).

  35. #35

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    I will take intelligence, the ability to be creative, critical things and problem solving over "life experience" and the innate cynicism that seems to come with it.
    Absolutely.

  36. #36

    Default

    ^ critical thinking.. that is.

    bad typo.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  37. #37

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IanO View Post
    ^hardly, but is that a bad thing?
    Well, I'm all for everybody riding bikes and taking public transit to work, but if he really did want to legislate granola-eating, I'd have to think twice about the vote I just cast for him.
    “It’s so beautiful. What sort of bird is that?”

  38. #38
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    Life experience is multi-faceted and can't be judged on volume alone. There are questions of how you got it and what you do with it. There are some where their abundance of life experience means they're less flexible, less open to change, and less dynamic. For some, their abundance of life experience may have no bearing on the job they're being asked to do and they'll founder. For others it means they'll be enormously competent.

    On the other hand there are plenty of very successful people who leapt ahead with little life experience. Richard Branson launched Virgin when he was 20 years old. There are plenty of success stories driven by younger people with vision. There are plenty of failures as well.

    I wouldn't try and judge any of the candidates by some measure of their experience but would pay more attention to their actual policies, accomplishments, and whether their vision of Edmonton aligns with your own.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  39. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Age <> life experience
    There is a dangerous assumption

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  40. #40
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    45,533

    Default

    ^agreed.
    www.decl.org

    Ottawa-Edmonton-Vancouver-Edmonton

  41. #41
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Age <> life experience
    There is a dangerous assumption

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    Just as dangerous as

    Age == Life Experience

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  42. #42
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    2,529

    Default

    Iveson is picking up endorsements from senior business and community leaders not known for their "dangerousness". Link: http://doniveson.ca/endorsements/

    Iveson must have some pretty serious momentum. Hence the attacks from his opponents trying to blunt it.

  43. #43
    highlander
    Guest

    Default

    Age=worthwhile life experience is a far more dangerous assumption. SDM's assumption is that we shouldn't assume that wisdom always accompanies age.

    It often does, but not always.

  44. #44

    Default

    Diotte receives a lot of criticism on here. I agree with much of it, but some of it seems a little reflexive.

    In this case, I am really not sure that the attack on Iveson came from the Diotte camp. Indeed, the weird emphasis on experience and the discussion it has spawned would seem to indicate another direction, if indeed there is one at all.

  45. #45
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    Most of the direct attacks on Iveson's experience have been from Leibovici. It's been disappointing, as while critiquing your opponent is valid, it seems to be all she's focussed on. I would have liked to have seen more detailed policy and platform and fewer attacks on Iveson.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  46. #46

    Default

    Having done a good job is more important than how long you did a job.

    Success deserves to be rewarded, not longevity.

  47. #47
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    WOW...I must have hit a nerve here...

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Age <> life experience
    There is a dangerous assumption

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    Just as dangerous as

    Age == Life Experience
    I would find the former more of a problem than the latter. I agree, while greater age will give you greater life experience(s), it is the what, how, and application that separates the wheat from the chaff. I never meant to say that age = smarter. ...but...



    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Life experience is multi-faceted and can't be judged on volume alone. There are questions of how you got it and what you do with it. (...)

    On the other hand there are plenty of very successful people who leapt ahead with little life experience. Richard Branson launched Virgin when he was 20 years old. There are plenty of success stories driven by younger people with vision. There are plenty of failures as well.

    I wouldn't try and judge any of the candidates by some measure of their experience but would pay more attention to their actual policies, accomplishments, and whether their vision of Edmonton aligns with your own.
    I'm sorry Paul, I can appreciate what you are trying to say, but some of it comes across as an excuse. I am not saying you would say this...but several here would immediately point out to life experience and the like if a 36 year old was running on Kerry's platform.

    ...bet you I'm right!

    As for the Richard Branson's of the world, well a) he is self made and b) a very rare occurance given how CEO's and other entrepreneurs come to the fold. Many entrepreneurial people come from a lifetime of trying, failing, dusting off, and trying again. Science is all about testing, retesting, failing, tweaking, trying again, and learning. The other thing that comes flying through is that many of the other successful younger entrepreneurs rely heavily on the advice of older, seasoned people. AKA been there, done that. AKA LIFE EXPERIENCES.


    ...and I am willing to bet that it will prove out that the vast majority of senior leaders (female and male) in organizations throughout the world are not 22 year old recent grads, and the 36 year olds are not in the C-suite as much as some herald.

    Your last paragraph is good, but it also exposes my concern with Don's resume. I get some of his policies, others appear to be pandering but I get that and that is ubiquitous amongst all candidates, but the real world non political or policy wonk experience is where my concern really lies. One thing I have come to know is that without a well rounded set of experiences, you never really develop a strong sense of vision and drive tempered with pragmatism and reality...instinct or"spidey senses" or a term I coined years ago "a gut-feel-o-meter" I am looking at all facets of all candidate's platforms, but to think that I, or instinct or many others, are glossing over this part would be a colossal understatement.

    ...just like people are considering facets of charisma, negotiation, fiscal responsibility, knowledge of the world around you, practicality vs dreaming, and civic image...all things we could debate...just like life experiences...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  48. #48
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Having done a good job is more important than how long you did a job.

    Success deserves to be rewarded, not longevity.

    Who the heck is saying it is all about longevity? OF course success and what you can detail out plays huge...

    We're violently agreeing until the point where the median reality comes into the fold...

    I take my resume...and one critique I immediately get is that there is no way in hell I have this much experience at my age...then I back each and every facet of my resume up with proven references, letters of support, and concrete deliverables. Often, I have to go the extra mile to get the contract. I get this equation more than I am letting on.

    ...but I guarantee you that since the question keeps coming up with every client I get...experiences and knowledge garnered is a HUGE question no matter what job you're applying for...to not think so is glossing it over...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  49. #49
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Diotte receives a lot of criticism on here. I agree with much of it, but some of it seems a little reflexive.

    In this case, I am really not sure that the attack on Iveson came from the Diotte camp. Indeed, the weird emphasis on experience and the discussion it has spawned would seem to indicate another direction, if indeed there is one at all.
    I don't know if the OP is working for anyone.

    ...actually this conversation is playing out a lot in the face to face discussions I am having with political candidates both in the city, the region, and with the rather diverse group of people I've been lucky enough to talk to...

    ...so not an attack at all from what I see and where I sit...but an actual real world conversation no more or less valid than if a 36 year old accomplished chemist and business person applied to be CEO of Pfizer...this is exactly what would be going on...so I fail to see how this is "weird"...

    The same conversation goes on with some of the younger candidates running in the wards...

    As said before...Don, Karen, Kerry, or anyone else - if elected - is really one vote of 13. Sure, you chair a few more meetings and get more camera time, but this is not a city state. Don is not "dangerous"...not at all...but in that vein...other candidates if elected would not herald the riding of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse....one vote of 13...

    ...and I am not working on any campaign....I'm a confirmed card carrying member of the undecided bar on every mayoral poll...in my ward, I am 100% decided though...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  50. #50

    Default

    I see the you tube video now....

    *omonous voice*..

    Don Iverson... He's Dangerous... Young... Plays kids games.. with his kids......

    Don Iverson.... he may know how to use an x box.

    Don Iverson... he blogs...

    Vote karen she's old.. unlike Dangerous Don.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  51. #51

    Default

    William Antrobus Griesbach Major General William Antrobus Griesbach CB CMG DSO (January 3, 1878 – January 21, 1945) was a Canadian politician, decorated soldier, mayor of Edmonton, and member of the Canadian House of Commons and Senate of Canada.
    mayor of Edmonton at 35

    Naheed Nenshi 38 when elected.

    William Hawrelak 36 first term

    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-10-2013 at 04:13 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  52. #52
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    WOW...I must have hit a nerve here...
    ...
    My initial comments were meant as a counter the assumption that having a lived a long time is necessarily makes your experiences more valuable than someone who has lived less time. I'm in my forties, and while that's not an uncommon age for CEO's or mayors, I would say I do not have the experiences necessary for those jobs. I also know people older than me that would be even less qualified than me and younger who would do better a job.

    Mostly I think the whole 'life experience' thing is a red herring as it's not a line on which you can place yourself nor is it clear what is applicable to the job. It's an amorphous set of traits that grow over time and increase your knowledge in various areas. What combination of those in what levels add up to a good mayor is hard to pin down. Quality goes ahead of quantity.

    Right now my gut ( ) says Edmonton is at a time when vision and drive are more important than caution and pragmatism. Leibovici has been running an old school campaign, spending more time on her opponents than convincing me that she has vision and drive. In her I see a 1990's politician who would be an adequate caretaker of the city. I don't see a mayor who can jump on the opportunities in front of us and drive them forward. Maybe I'm wrong but frankly she hasn't spent a whole lot of time trying to sell me on anything other than Iveson being unqualified.

    Iveson is a risk but I think a risk worth taking.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  53. #53
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Westmount
    Posts
    3,185

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Most of the direct attacks on Iveson's experience have been from Leibovici. It's been disappointing, as while critiquing your opponent is valid, it seems to be all she's focussed on. I would have liked to have seen more detailed policy and platform and fewer attacks on Iveson.
    Yeah, her attacks remind me of a flailing John McCain campaign circa fall 2008...

  54. #54

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.

  55. #55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.
    The republicans have him by the balls.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  56. #56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    Age=worthwhile life experience is a far more dangerous assumption. SDM's assumption is that we shouldn't assume that wisdom always accompanies age.

    It often does, but not always.
    I took this post of SDM's
    Age <> life experience
    as age means life experience, excuse me if I was incorrect.

    At the same time do not under estimate the value of life experience regardless of age.

    I have met far too many academically very intelligent people that had no idea how to make something functional work...and I will bet almost everyone here can say the same.

    A person in a position of leadership needs a balance that includes a real life track record of winning and losing.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  57. #57
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    @edp...and what else did they do? Greisbach v Iveson...there is a gaping canyon in experiences at the same age..

    again...the argument is not age alone...it is the WHOLE package...and seriously...with this "weird" reaction...again, I think a nerve has been hit greater than I expected....

    ...for if Don's camp...or Don himself didn't expect this conversation was happening...I'd be surprised...


    as for your previous post...why go that ridiculous?
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  58. #58
    C2E Posting Power
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Below that old white mountain, just a little southeast of Nome
    Posts
    623

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    William Hawrelak 36 first term
    Hawrelak was one of the most corrupt politicians we have had in this city and a disgrace to the office he held as Mayor (twice judicially disqualified from the position and headed that way a third time had he not died while in office).

  59. #59
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.
    The republicans have him by the balls.
    OK...to further MrOiler's point....Michelle Bauchmann is an old straight white guy?????
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  60. #60

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    William Antrobus Griesbach Major General William Antrobus Griesbach CB CMG DSO (January 3, 1878 – January 21, 1945) was a Canadian politician, decorated soldier, mayor of Edmonton, and member of the Canadian House of Commons and Senate of Canada.
    mayor of Edmonton at 35

    Naheed Nenshi 38 when elected.

    William Hawrelak 36 first term

    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    This is not about colour, age or sexual orientation...this is about picking someone that is going to lead through what will be a difficult time.

    Ability to lead, to execute and to recognize the wins and when its time to mitigate a lose.

    Each of us will come to our own decision on who that will be.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  61. #61

    Default

    ^ guys

    the overwhelming majority of politicians and CEOs are old straight white guys. Cherry picking select examples doesn't change this. We reward female politicians by calling them sluts and bitches and talking about their weight and that's in the house.

    We could direct this conversation to a thread on Rona Ambrose where a number of you have reduced her to a sex object.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-10-2013 at 04:30 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  62. #62

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    William Antrobus Griesbach Major General William Antrobus Griesbach CB CMG DSO (January 3, 1878 – January 21, 1945) was a Canadian politician, decorated soldier, mayor of Edmonton, and member of the Canadian House of Commons and Senate of Canada.
    mayor of Edmonton at 35

    Naheed Nenshi 38 when elected.

    William Hawrelak 36 first term

    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    This is not about colour, age or sexual orientation...this is about picking someone that is going to lead through what will be a difficult time.

    Ability to lead, to execute and to recognize the wins and when its time to mitigate a lose.

    Each of us will come to our own decision on who that will be.

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    O no.. age and sex I feel is relevant as our democracy is also a reflection of our society... for the last 100 years we have choosen the old white guy over and over again.. and deviation from that would be "dangerous".

    Karen is a great example.. she is running a campaign now that is straight out of the old straight white guy handbook...
    I have put in X amount of time.. I deserve it... see don over here he is young, I'm old. I know better. She is a product of a generation and of her peers.

    I wanted to vote for Karen, in the end she has turned out to be a great disappointment.

    Don is the only front line candidate that has not resulted to smear campaigns. We want politics to be better, more cordial, more civilized... well we better start electing people who share the same values. Not more of the same (old white guy).

    This is why, I feel, Trudeau is doing so well at the moment.
    Last edited by edmonton daily photo; 16-10-2013 at 04:32 PM.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  63. #63
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    WOW...I must have hit a nerve here...
    ...
    My initial comments were meant as a counter the assumption that having a lived a long time is necessarily makes your experiences more valuable than someone who has lived less time. I'm in my forties, and while that's not an uncommon age for CEO's or mayors, I would say I do not have the experiences necessary for those jobs. I also know people older than me that would be even less qualified than me and younger who would do better a job.

    Mostly I think the whole 'life experience' thing is a red herring as it's not a line on which you can place yourself nor is it clear what is applicable to the job. It's an amorphous set of traits that grow over time and increase your knowledge in various areas. What combination of those in what levels add up to a good mayor is hard to pin down. Quality goes ahead of quantity.

    Right now my gut ( ) says Edmonton is at a time when vision and drive are more important than caution and pragmatism. (...)

    Iveson is a risk but I think a risk worth taking.
    Coming from one mid 40's gut to another...

    I would say it is not a red herring...for by what you say you wouldn't even APPLY for the job based on your own knowledge of your life experiences and abilities...

    Here, someone actually is applying...

    After years of screening several resumes for senior positions...if anyone here ever doubts that the whole package is not looked at...you're fooling yourselves. End of line.

    ...as for the chance...well, I am not supporting anyone right now...but vision and drive here need to be countered with the pragmatism that we actually have tons of projects committed to and or underway...

    I haven't said no to Don...but again...not yes either.

    ...I'm not alone in this...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  64. #64
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    edp, you're now basing a decision on a personal desire...and yet question the experience factor?

    What if your dream candidate of a young, hip, gay, one-eyed, one horn, flying purple people eater alien that conquers all demographics...

    ...turns out to be just a people eating slug?


    gee, which is the more "dangerous" approach? The experience question would be valid regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or playbook!
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  65. #65
    highlander
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    @edp...and what else did they do? Greisbach v Iveson...there is a gaping canyon in experiences at the same age..

    again...the argument is not age alone...it is the WHOLE package...and seriously...with this "weird" reaction...again, I think a nerve has been hit greater than I expected....

    ...for if Don's camp...or Don himself didn't expect this conversation was happening...I'd be surprised...


    as for your previous post...why go that ridiculous?
    I don't see a lot of difference between the two. Both spent a lot of time at school. Both were on city council, Iveson for longer than Griesbach. Griesbach spent a couple years at war, and worked as a lawyer. Don held leadership positions at student organizations.

    Griesbach was an M.P., a Senator, and a Major General AFTER he was Mayor.

  66. #66

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    WOW...I must have hit a nerve here...
    ...
    My initial comments were meant as a counter the assumption that having a lived a long time is necessarily makes your experiences more valuable than someone who has lived less time. I'm in my forties, and while that's not an uncommon age for CEO's or mayors, I would say I do not have the experiences necessary for those jobs. I also know people older than me that would be even less qualified than me and younger who would do better a job.

    Mostly I think the whole 'life experience' thing is a red herring as it's not a line on which you can place yourself nor is it clear what is applicable to the job. It's an amorphous set of traits that grow over time and increase your knowledge in various areas. What combination of those in what levels add up to a good mayor is hard to pin down. Quality goes ahead of quantity.

    Right now my gut ( ) says Edmonton is at a time when vision and drive are more important than caution and pragmatism. (...)

    Iveson is a risk but I think a risk worth taking.
    Coming from one mid 40's gut to another...

    I would say it is not a red herring...for by what you say you wouldn't even APPLY for the job based on your own knowledge of your life experiences and abilities...

    Here, someone actually is applying...

    After years of screening several resumes for senior positions...if anyone here ever doubts that the whole package is not looked at...you're fooling yourselves. End of line.

    ...as for the chance...well, I am not supporting anyone right now...but vision and drive here need to be countered with the pragmatism that we actually have tons of projects committed to and or underway...

    I haven't said no to Don...but again...not yes either.

    ...I'm not alone in this...
    you actually haven't hit a nerve at all.. this threat hit a nerve..

    Calling Don Iverson "dangerous" my god

    but the discussion has turned larger...it's not just about dangerous don anymore.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  67. #67

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Hinderks View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    William Antrobus Griesbach Major General William Antrobus Griesbach CB CMG DSO (January 3, 1878 – January 21, 1945) was a Canadian politician, decorated soldier, mayor of Edmonton, and member of the Canadian House of Commons and Senate of Canada.
    mayor of Edmonton at 35

    Naheed Nenshi 38 when elected.

    William Hawrelak 36 first term

    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    This is not about colour, age or sexual orientation...this is about picking someone that is going to lead through what will be a difficult time.

    Ability to lead, to execute and to recognize the wins and when its time to mitigate a lose.

    Each of us will come to our own decision on who that will be.

    In my highly biased personal opinion
    O no.. age and sex I feel is relevant as our democracy is also a reflection of our society... for the last 100 years we have choosen the old white guy over and over again.. and deviation from that would be "dangerous".

    Karen is a great example.. she is running a campaign now that is straight out of the old straight white guy handbook...
    I have put in X amount of time.. I deserve it... see don over here he is young, I'm old. I know better. She is a product of a generation and of her peers.

    I wanted to vote for Karen, in the end she has turned out to be a great disappointment.

    Don is the only front line candidate that has not resulted to smear campaigns. We want politics to be better, more cordial, more civilized... well we better start electing people who share the same values. Not more of the same (old white guy).

    This is why, I feel, Trudeau is doing so well at the moment.
    Ya know sometimes I find your arguments so hypocritical it's frightening.

    I look for the best qualified CANDIDATE for a position, be it someone I'm voting for or hiring.

    Don't care male, female, colour, religion and have never...never considered sexual orientation as a requirement of any job position.

    In this election I'm looking at things the exact same way.
    Who is the best qualified to see the mega projects through, stick to the course that has been laid out and committed to.

    Who is going to be the best steward for the citizens and best representative for the City and a whole host of related factors.

    But none of those factors include...
    Race, creed, religion colour, sex or sexual orientation.

    Those factors, to me, frankly don't get the job done.

    In my highly biased personal opinion

  68. #68
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post

    I don't see a lot of difference between the two. Both spent a lot of time at school. Both were on city council, Iveson for longer than Griesbach. Griesbach spent a couple years at war, and worked as a lawyer. Don held leadership positions at student organizations.

    Griesbach was an M.P., a Senator, and a Major General AFTER he was Mayor.

    um...really...student organizations prepare you for being CEO if Edmonton corp. That is like saying being captain of a hockey team makes you a good general...

    see how easy that is to tee up???

    ...you guys and gals aren't helping...


    I am harping on this a bit more than I would like because this thread DID hit a nerve...stop denying it...

    I think many here can agree that Don is not "dangerous"....in the way the OP intended...

    BUT

    There is an easy answer to the question of experience. Juxtaposing Gresibach to Don is not it...and I have a feeling he would not like the juxtaposition either...maybe I am wrong, but my gut says that he would rather not have that comparison made...

    ...riddle me this...in this boring horse race, one may sluff this conversation off...

    ...but if a younger, say, 50 ish Mandel came out of the wings...game on?

    PS - the answer is the same...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  69. #69
    highlander
    Guest

    Default

    Just like being a soldier doesn't necessarily make a good leader.

    Maybe I'm not understanding.

    You claimed that there is a gaping canyon between the two in terms of experiences. We're you saying in favour if Iveson or Griesbach?

    Because if I have to judge between 2 years as an enlisted soldier and 3 years as a lawyer vs. an additional 3 years on council and a whole bunch of years of leadership at admittedly lesser organizations, it's not a landslide by any means.

    Unless griesbach did a bunch of stuff at law school that doesn't show up on Wikipedia.

    Honestly , they are both capable, intelligent men with political ambitions. That's what I get from either Bio.

  70. #70

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post

    I don't see a lot of difference between the two. Both spent a lot of time at school. Both were on city council, Iveson for longer than Griesbach. Griesbach spent a couple years at war, and worked as a lawyer. Don held leadership positions at student organizations.

    Griesbach was an M.P., a Senator, and a Major General AFTER he was Mayor.

    um...really...student organizations prepare you for being CEO if Edmonton corp. That is like saying being captain of a hockey team makes you a good general...

    see how easy that is to tee up???

    ...you guys and gals aren't helping...


    I am harping on this a bit more than I would like because this thread DID hit a nerve...stop denying it...

    I think many here can agree that Don is not "dangerous"....in the way the OP intended...

    BUT

    There is an easy answer to the question of experience. Juxtaposing Gresibach to Don is not it...and I have a feeling he would not like the juxtaposition either...maybe I am wrong, but my gut says that he would rather not have that comparison made...

    ...riddle me this...in this boring horse race, one may sluff this conversation off...

    ...but if a younger, say, 50 ish Mandel came out of the wings...game on?

    PS - the answer is the same...
    To be honest being mayor is not the CEO Edmonton corp.. the GM of the city is more along those lines.

    Council is the oversight board of which the mayor is one of thirteen votes.

    The Mayor most importantly is the figurehead and I think Don will make a great figurehead.

    Lastly... no matter how great the CEO of a company is he is only as effective as his team. If the mayor starts be getting rid of Don Mackie I will be happy and it will be worth it.
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  71. #71
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Downtown Edmonton
    Posts
    10,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.
    Not really. Perhaps that's how he identifies himself, but the reality is that he's as white as he is black. For some reason though, if someone is half black and white, they are identified as black in our culture. As if the blackness overrides the whiteness somehow.

  72. #72
    highlander
    Guest

    Default

    I'm not sure a younger Mandel would be the right man either. He was big on big projects too, maybe his younger counterpart would be able to slow down and manage what the real Mandel started, or maybe, with those battles fought he would loose focus and charge off to some new challenge.

    Maybe that's why he retired.

    He was the right man for the last 9 years, but what we need is the right man for the next 4.

    I haven't seen anything in Don Iveson's record to suggest that he would neglect what's been started, or that he won't take the responsibility seriously, or that he won't try to understand the real effects of his decisions, or that he would be excessively idealistic, or lack diplomacy or respect, or anything else that might be considered a negative youthful tendency.

    He has been far more mature in the debates and interviews that I have seen than his older competition has been.

  73. #73
    C2E SME
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sherwood Park, AB
    Posts
    10,664

    Default

    I think the next council will have a lot to learn, and they'll need a mayor to build consensus.
    "Talk minus action equals zero." - Joe Keithley, D. O. A.

  74. #74

    Default

    Iveson is only dangerous because those that don't like him can't understand the smart words coming out of his mouth. They much prefer the simple one-liners repeated over and over and over from Mr. Diotte.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

  75. #75
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,066

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post

    I don't see a lot of difference between the two. Both spent a lot of time at school. Both were on city council, Iveson for longer than Griesbach. Griesbach spent a couple years at war, and worked as a lawyer. Don held leadership positions at student organizations.

    Griesbach was an M.P., a Senator, and a Major General AFTER he was Mayor.

    um...really...student organizations prepare you for being CEO if Edmonton corp. That is like saying being captain of a hockey team makes you a good general...

    see how easy that is to tee up???

    ...you guys and gals aren't helping...


    I am harping on this a bit more than I would like because this thread DID hit a nerve...stop denying it...

    I think many here can agree that Don is not "dangerous"....in the way the OP intended...

    BUT

    There is an easy answer to the question of experience. Juxtaposing Gresibach to Don is not it...and I have a feeling he would not like the juxtaposition either...maybe I am wrong, but my gut says that he would rather not have that comparison made...

    ...riddle me this...in this boring horse race, one may sluff this conversation off...

    ...but if a younger, say, 50 ish Mandel came out of the wings...game on?

    PS - the answer is the same...
    okay, i'll rise to your "riddle me this"...

    and i'll start acknowledging that student organizations may not prepare you for being ceo of edmonton corp. but that's not the whole story. the rest of the story would be that student organizations don't disqualify you from being ceo of edmonton corp either.

    as i noted earlier in this thread, if don is dangerous, edmonton could use more of it.

    on the experience front, if experience were everything, none of us would ever have a chance to do anything and nothing would get done by anyone as a result. i remember the first time i moved to edmonton at the tail end of the last real boom edmonton experienced. i was younger than don is now and so was almost everyone else. collectively we were all too *&^% young to be doing what we were trying to do but we didn't know any better. and pretty much everything we tackled turned out pretty well until 1983 and it wasn't youth that brought things to a grinding halt.

    there is no 50-ish mandel waiting in the wings and it's too late for nomination papers to be accepted for anyone else anyway so there is no game there. the game needs to be played with those whose papers were filed.

    as tom said, it has nothing to do with race, creed, religion colour, sex or sexual orientation. it has nothing to do with age either. it does have everything to do with vision and the right skill set - including the ability to attract and keep others with their own skill sets to the team - to execute that vision.

    and all of this from a member of a generation who once said "never trust anyone over the age of 30" who is now more than twice that but who now knows there is no magic and no truth to that. most of us now know that experience on it's own has no value - it's what one learns from experience that has value. some learn the first time and others never do and age is not the determining factor. growth is the determining factor.

    that's what i will be looking to vote for when i cast my ballot and the operative word for me is "for", not "against". you don't have to be any particular age to be able to offer that, just as there are those who will never be able to offer that no matter how old they are.
    Last edited by kcantor; 16-10-2013 at 06:00 PM.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  76. #76
    C2E Long Term Contributor
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Downtown
    Posts
    30,544

    Default

    Various comments on the above:

    1. re: age vs life experience, I've met some very worldly, smart and successful people in their 20s who had to grow up quickly. And I've known some middle-aged cube dwellers who've had the same safe work/eat/sleep routine for 30 years and have done nothing else in their lives. So no, I don't buy into the notion that older means more life experiences.

    2. I don't really care if all my candidates are disabled lesbian Muslim immigrants. I don't believe in voting just to meet some politically-correct quota. I will vote for those who display the strongest inspirational leadership qualities and the soundest policies that I can buy into. Right now Iveson is the best qualified candidate for Mayor.

    3. I think another part of Iveson's appeal is that Edmontonians want a Mayor similar to Nenshi. In Iveson, I see quite a bit of Nenshi in him, plus a couple of grains of JFK too if I may add.

    4. I already voted.

    5. I hear Rona's been free game for the past couple of years. Just sayin'!
    Last edited by Sonic Death Monkey; 16-10-2013 at 08:33 PM.
    “You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

  77. #77

    Default

    Who is this Iverson that someone keeps referring to?

    Iverson:



    Iveson:


  78. #78
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton (belevedre)
    Posts
    6,484

    Default

    looks like anyone here is rushing to judgment on Iveson.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  79. #79

    Default

    Iveson is not dangerous, but the best of very poor candidates to choose from to me. I reluctantly put my vote to the kid and that's only because the other two front-runners totally blow my mind at their ineptitude. I hope we have another Mandel 3 (or is it 4 now) years from now.

  80. #80
    C2E Hard Core Contributor
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Red Deer
    Posts
    2,561

    Default

    ^That's probably the thinking of plenty of Edmonton voters. No one's standing out and one has to wonder if Iveson will the right kind of leader or become another Jan Reimer. If I could vote in Edmonton, and if it was allowed, I'd do a write in vote for Daryl Katz.

  81. #81
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Edmonton (belevedre)
    Posts
    6,484

    Default

    If you don't want to vote Iveson , vote for Diotte or else because this will send Edmonton back to good old days of 1990s or even 1980's.

    it is your decision , not mine and I just out of my hands because I never bother voting much over the years anyway.
    Edmonton Rocks Rocks Rocks

  82. #82
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    If you don't want to vote Iveson , vote for Diotte or else because this will send Edmonton back to good old days of 1990s or even 1980's.

    it is your decision , not mine and I just out of my hands because I never bother voting much over the years anyway.
    what makes you think everyone else's vote is worth more than yours?

    all you need to do to make yours count just as much as everyone else's is to use it.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

  83. #83
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kcantor View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jagators63 View Post
    If you don't want to vote Iveson , vote for Diotte or else because this will send Edmonton back to good old days of 1990s or even 1980's.

    it is your decision , not mine and I just out of my hands because I never bother voting much over the years anyway.
    what makes you think everyone else's vote is worth more than yours?

    all you need to do to make yours count just as much as everyone else's is to use it.

    Agreed...I may be undecided right now...but now only slightly so...I will be making my choice on election day!
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  84. #84
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    I'm just going to hide my wall of text....not because I fel it was wrong, but I will sum up...

    This avoidance of a simple answer to a softball question and topic, coupled with absolutely unnecessary and hyperbolic comparisons (JFK, REALLY?)...makes me a bit concerned should a real question or issue arise...

    ...like the region, or collective bargaining...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  85. #85
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,395

    Default

    I can just imagine Iveson's campaign strategy 4years from now if he should happen to get in this time. "Vote for Don Iveson he has the experience"
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  86. #86

    Default

    So...best thread from how it begun to where it is now ever.
    Live and love... your neighbourhood.

  87. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.
    Not really. Perhaps that's how he identifies himself, but the reality is that he's as white as he is black.
    If X self-identifies as Y and if other people who identify themselves as Y agree X is Y, no one who does not identify as Y can say X is not Y.

    End of argument.

    Now, once you have understood the logic there, let X be Obama and let Y be black.

    QED.

  88. #88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Various comments on the above:

    1. re: age vs life experience, I've met some very worldly, smart and successful people in their 20s who had to grow up quickly. And I've known some middle-aged cube dwellers who've had the same safe work/eat/sleep routine for 30 years and have done nothing else in their lives. So no, I don't buy into the notion that older means more life experiences.

    2. I don't really care if all my candidates are disabled lesbian Muslim immigrants. I don't believe in voting just to meet some politically-correct quota. I will vote for those who display the strongest inspirational leadership qualities and the soundest policies that I can buy into. Right now Iveson is the best qualified candidate for Mayor.

    3. I think another part of Iveson's appeal is that Edmontonians want a Mayor similar to Nenshi. In Iveson, I see quite a bit of Nenshi in him, plus a couple of grains of JFK too if I may add.

    4. I already voted.

    5. I hear Rona's been free game for the past couple of years. Just sayin'!
    Mayor Nenshi mentors Iveson, as they are very close personal friends. Iveson will be very well connected, which is exactly what Edmonton needs!

  89. #89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by andrew View Post
    Looks like Iveson is now clearly the front-runner if he is attracting these kind of cheap attacks....
    Ironic because this has been 100% the nature of drivebys about Diotte.

    Where was your complaint about that? Oh, curiously missing.

    So your concern then isn't that such invective is used in politics. Your concern is that its used against your candidate. But according to you its perfectly fine to lobby hate invective against elected representatives who you oppose (see below)

    OMG.

    This topic and thread is non stop hypocrisy. Blindly debated by those not even aware they are engaging.


    No wonder democracy is what it is in present day.

    Nothing but smear campaigns and clapping seals. Just don't pie my guy..

    ps

    In case people are wondering why I'm specifically challenging Andrews crying about "cheap attacks" heres some of Andrews past contributions to the forum for record;

    Andrew on the Harper majority Govt: (note Andrew stating democracy made "a mistake" because its not his candidate..)

    A "majority" government elected by only a minority of Canadians.....
    Vote splitting in Ontario by the NDP and Liberals gave this to Harpy.
    Gonna be a long 4 years until we can fix this mistake.
    Next, Andrew Gleefully participating in a C2E thread entitled "Czar Harper"; (Note Andrew referring to the present Prime Minister of a democratic country as a "Tyrant"

    "Crazy rantings? This is the kind of thing I think most Canadians are not hearing about enough. I think the nonsense from our so called "prime minister"/tyrant in waiting is more well described as crazy rantings."
    and


    Andrew Complaining about people complaining that the Prime Minister is being labeled in same thread.

    Perhaps you missed the recent postings on the use of personal attacks like "******" etc. Please try to be less like a typical CON supporter and try arguing the facts. Harper is acting like a "tyrant" - governing with little concern for the people, and deserves to be called out for it.

    So I guess what we're supposed to take from Andrews' and like minded contributions is somebody elses candidate deserves to be smeared, but never his. Good to know.


    How do people reconcile such disparate points of view without heads exploding?
    Last edited by Replacement; 16-10-2013 at 11:36 PM.
    "if god exists and he allowed that to happen, then its better that he doesn't exist"

  90. #90
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    4,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AShetsen View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by edmonton daily photo View Post
    Personally I am tired of the old white straight guy ruling the world.
    Obama is black.
    Not really. Perhaps that's how he identifies himself, but the reality is that he's as white as he is black.
    If X self-identifies as Y and if other people who identify themselves as Y agree X is Y, no one who does not identify as Y can say X is not Y.

    End of argument.

    Now, once you have understood the logic there, let X be Obama and let Y be black.

    QED.
    You are who you have to defend.
    “Canada is the only country in the world that knows how to live without an identity,”-Marshall McLuhan

  91. #91
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Various comments on the above:

    1. re: age vs life experience, I've met some very worldly, smart and successful people in their 20s who had to grow up quickly. And I've known some middle-aged cube dwellers who've had the same safe work/eat/sleep routine for 30 years and have done nothing else in their lives. So no, I don't buy into the notion that older means more life experiences.

    2. I don't really care if all my candidates are disabled lesbian Muslim immigrants. I don't believe in voting just to meet some politically-correct quota. I will vote for those who display the strongest inspirational leadership qualities and the soundest policies that I can buy into. Right now Iveson is the best qualified candidate for Mayor.

    3. I think another part of Iveson's appeal is that Edmontonians want a Mayor similar to Nenshi. In Iveson, I see quite a bit of Nenshi in him, plus a couple of grains of JFK too if I may add.

    4. I already voted.

    5. I hear Rona's been free game for the past couple of years. Just sayin'!
    Mayor Nenshi mentors Iveson, as they are very close personal friends. Iveson will be very well connected, which is exactly what Edmonton needs!

    ...but Iveson is NOT Nenshi...let's be clear...and in some cases that is a good thing...

    ...just like I am not my mentors...nor the folks I mentor are me...



    Nor, as pointed out above, should he be compared in any way to JFK, bobby, JFK Jr, Justin Trudeau, etc...

    These comparisons are dangerous, and in the case of JFK, extremely disingenious and dangerous...

    If I vote for Don, it will be because of what and who Don is...not who mentors him...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  92. #92

    Default

    It's about time that the two cities join forces to become a juggernaut. Ps a friend at the Goa told me all the changes to the municipal govt act are made and ready to go. They will be announced after the elections.

    Quote Originally Posted by stinger11 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Various comments on the above:

    1. re: age vs life experience, I've met some very worldly, smart and successful people in their 20s who had to grow up quickly. And I've known some middle-aged cube dwellers who've had the same safe work/eat/sleep routine for 30 years and have done nothing else in their lives. So no, I don't buy into the notion that older means more life experiences.

    2. I don't really care if all my candidates are disabled lesbian Muslim immigrants. I don't believe in voting just to meet some politically-correct quota. I will vote for those who display the strongest inspirational leadership qualities and the soundest policies that I can buy into. Right now Iveson is the best qualified candidate for Mayor.

    3. I think another part of Iveson's appeal is that Edmontonians want a Mayor similar to Nenshi. In Iveson, I see quite a bit of Nenshi in him, plus a couple of grains of JFK too if I may add.

    4. I already voted.

    5. I hear Rona's been free game for the past couple of years. Just sayin'!
    Mayor Nenshi mentors Iveson, as they are very close personal friends. Iveson will be very well connected, which is exactly what Edmonton needs!
    "Do you give people who already use transit a better service, or do you build it where they don't use it in the hopes they might start to use it?" Nenshi

  93. #93

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...but Iveson is NOT Nenshi...let's be clear...and in some cases that is a good thing...
    Well I am hoping he learns a little from Nenshi about having the guts to say no to sprawl, Edmonton will have a chance to infill like Calgary is then. Regardless, if he has Nenshi's energy it will be a good thing for Edmonton.

  94. #94
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    ...um...from my office window view this am...calgary's still sprawling...

    ...calgary's infill is more an economic equation...it has an ROI...
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  95. #95

    Default

    ^^ Sprawl can't be dealt with until there is a regional agreement on planning. If Edmonton makes changes to reduce sprawl but the surrounding municipalities do nothing, then it ultimately accomplishes nothing.
    Go down a few dark alleys.

  96. #96
    C2E Junkie *
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    13,669
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    ^ Give this poster a cookie!
    Since calm logic doesn't work, I guess it is time to employ sarcasm. ...and before you call me an a-hole...remember, I am a Dick.

  97. #97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...but Iveson is NOT Nenshi...let's be clear...and in some cases that is a good thing...
    Well I am hoping he learns a little from Nenshi about having the guts to say no to sprawl, Edmonton will have a chance to infill like Calgary is then. Regardless, if he has Nenshi's energy it will be a good thing for Edmonton.
    Nenshi likes sound bites, but there's no action behind these sound bites hes offered outside of a cursory review to continue the same.
    Calgary sprawls and continues to sprawl as much or more than Edmonton.

  98. #98
    I'd rather C2E than work!
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Westmount, Edmonton
    Posts
    5,405

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...but Iveson is NOT Nenshi...let's be clear...and in some cases that is a good thing...
    Well I am hoping he learns a little from Nenshi about having the guts to say no to sprawl, Edmonton will have a chance to infill like Calgary is then. Regardless, if he has Nenshi's energy it will be a good thing for Edmonton.
    Nenshi likes sound bites, but there's no action behind these sound bites hes offered outside of a cursory review to continue the same.
    Calgary sprawls and continues to sprawl as much or more than Edmonton.
    In terms of actual population density Calgary is denser than Edmonton but both cities rank amongst the lowest densities in North America. Calgary can appear to be more sprawled than Edmonton until you take into account the larger population.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  99. #99

    Default

    Moahunter is trying to say that Calgary has stopped its sprawl because a few years back Nenshi said "no more sprawl" but yet, outward expansion continue unabated in Calgary.

    Both cities are continuing to sprawl outwards at the same pace. Just look at SW or SE Edmonton or NW Calgary, or SW, or SE Calgary.

  100. #100
    Addicted to C2E
    Mr. Reality Check

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta
    Posts
    11,066

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by moahunter View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    ...but Iveson is NOT Nenshi...let's be clear...and in some cases that is a good thing...
    Well I am hoping he learns a little from Nenshi about having the guts to say no to sprawl, Edmonton will have a chance to infill like Calgary is then. Regardless, if he has Nenshi's energy it will be a good thing for Edmonton.
    Nenshi likes sound bites, but there's no action behind these sound bites hes offered outside of a cursory review to continue the same.
    Calgary sprawls and continues to sprawl as much or more than Edmonton.
    In terms of actual population density Calgary is denser than Edmonton but both cities rank amongst the lowest densities in North America. Calgary can appear to be more sprawled than Edmonton until you take into account the larger population.
    i'm not sure what actual numbers you are using to arrive at your conclusions but if you are using the areas of the cities and their respective populations to arrive at your conclusions you are basing it on meaningless numbers.

    if you want to calculate edmonton's density, you have to deduct the areas of our entire river valley and ravine system that are unavailable for residential (or other) development; you should deduct areas that are not yet developed (most of the northeast, much of the southwest, some of the southeast); you should deduct all of those areas that are unavailable for residential development (most of the northwest, much of the southeast and some of the northeast) because it is already occupied by non-residential uses; and maybe even deduct our major transportation and utility corridors as well.

    once you've done that, you can then compare real densities and have a meaningful discussion.
    "If you did not want much, there was plenty." Harper Lee

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •