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Thread: 102 Ave Bridge over Groat Road - Bridge Replacement | complete

  1. #101
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    It appears they had put in a lot of bracing too, and the bracing mangled

  2. #102

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    So collecting and recycling all those pop can tabs wasn't the right solution??

  3. #103

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-beam

    Wiki explains it to a degree.
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  4. #104

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    I still do not understand why they would bend after being put in place or why previously erected beams did not bend. I should imagine they are getting the beams from the same manufacturer.
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    A civil engineer friend of mine suspects Lateral torsional buckling

    https://youtu.be/wUkvxHqPbTY

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    All I can say is WTF? Clean it up and reopen Groat Rd ASAP. Reorder steel from someone else. The steel for the Walterdale replacement better be from elsewhere. What would have happened had construction completed and people started driving over the bridge? Scary stuff.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    It appears they had put in a lot of bracing too, and the bracing mangled
    Only the light one, no heavy cross bracing is seen.
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  8. #108

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    Is this a design flaw, a beam flaw. Apart from them having to remove these beams will they have to change the way this bridge is built. What's to say it will not happen again?.
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  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by etownboarder View Post
    All I can say is WTF? Clean it up and reopen Groat Rd ASAP. Reorder steel from someone else. The steel for the Walterdale replacement better be from elsewhere. What would have happened had construction completed and people started driving over the bridge? Scary stuff.
    Nothing wrong with the beams IMHO so the supplier is not at fault. It is an erection dysfunction.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 16-03-2015 at 03:12 PM.
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    ^and other than being amusing, why couldn't it be the actual steel? Could be, maybe not. Could be a hundred different things. Either way, wtf?

  11. #111

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    At least the problem happened before it was complete. We can't have that bridge collapsing like the one in Minneapolis several years ago.

    I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the construction industry or bridge building in general, but I hope it's not like they're going to have to tear the whole thing down and do it all over again. It also makes me wonder where the contractors are getting the steel from.
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  13. #113

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    If these girders are coming from overseas they would have been lifted by a crane quite a few times. How come now (on the last leg) they buckle.
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  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbon-14 View Post
    A civil engineer friend of mine suspects Lateral torsional buckling

    https://youtu.be/wUkvxHqPbTY
    So if the middle crane support was insufficient, LTB would likely have occurred. Erection problems... hate it when that happens...

  15. #115
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    At 2 AM there was no noticeable deformation. Counting from the south there was permanent cross bracing installed between beams 1-3, beams 4 and 5 were in place with what looks like temporary cross bracing installed on the top, not as thick as the permanent and none of the V cross bracing. They at 2 AM were installing beam 6.

    By 2:15 beams 4,5 and 6 were horizontally deformed as well beam 7 on the west abutment was moved out of place to the south a few feet. The permanent cross bracing seemed to be adequate and dragged the west beam, however the temporary cross bracing wasn't strong enough to take that lateral southwards motion.

    I can't see any evidence any of the cranes failed the booms look like they are still straight, there also doesn't appear to be any evidence the cables on any of the cranes failed.

    The middle crane was strong enough to lift the previous 5 beams without a problem, seemed undamaged after beam 6 so it still seems strong enough.

    My guess is a crane operator error likely the middle crane on Groat Road rather than the 2 cranes on either side caused a southwards motion to beam 6.

    If this was a failure of flaw in the steel of the I-beam the motion would tend to be buckling motion downwards on beam 6, once it started moving down then the cross bracing would cause a tension deformation, this is a compression deformation.
    Last edited by sundance; 16-03-2015 at 03:36 PM.

  16. #116
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    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?

  17. #117

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    Deformation of the supporting structure had started at 2:00. Compare it to the 1:45 picture.

    Don't think product quality was the problem. Installation process was likely the culprit here.

  18. #118

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?
    Local steel for Groat Road, imported for Walterdale...
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  19. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
    At least the problem happened before it was complete. We can't have that bridge collapsing like the one in Minneapolis several years ago.

    I'm not exactly knowledgeable about the construction industry or bridge building in general, but I hope it's not like they're going to have to tear the whole thing down and do it all over again. It also makes me wonder where the contractors are getting the steel from.
    Many structures including bridges, warehouses, your home etc. are a house of cards until they are finished. Just like your roof trusses, until the plywood sheathing is on, it is quite fragile to side loads. On the bridge, the deck structure, the concrete slab and all the weight of the concrete keep the bridge together.
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 16-03-2015 at 03:50 PM.
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  20. #120

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    Wonder how long this will keep Groat Road from opening. Journal said this could delay the bridge by a year. That seems rather a long time.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...892/story.html
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  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?
    Local steel for Groat Road, imported for Walterdale...
    Exactly what I was wondering. Maybe now every comments section won't be filled with people complaining that they didn't buy local for Walterdale.

  22. #122

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    It's still conjecture that the steel was faulty.
    Support the mob or mysteriously disappear...

  23. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?
    Local steel for Groat Road, imported for Walterdale...
    Exactly what I was wondering. Maybe now every comments section won't be filled with people complaining that they didn't buy local for Walterdale.
    I saw what appears to be one TFW on site in the video...


    Got find someone to blame it on.


    In this whole risky process, a minute movement of a hydraulic control on the lower crane is all that it takes to cause this. Some erection disasters have occurred when the crane outrigger pad shifted even a small amount and the result on a long boom is disastrous.
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  24. #124
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    I'm purely speculating, but yah could be a few different reasons, the welder could have heated the beam too much, an outrigger or pad could have failed. We'll find out in a few months once they analyze everything. I'm betting people are going over the video from the two cameras right now.

  25. #125
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    Yep, looks like a little mistake in installation that went sideways.

    Pardon the pun.

    Once they get the deformed beams out of there and figure out a revised schedule, it sure would be nice if they could use the 3 undamaged beams with a temporary deck and rails for a pedestrian-only crossing. Unlkely, I know.

  26. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?
    Local steel for Groat Road, imported for Walterdale...
    Exactly what I was wondering. Maybe now every comments section won't be filled with people complaining that they didn't buy local for Walterdale.
    Oh yes my bad overseas steel IS ALWAYS THE ANSWER will you ever forgive me alex..........

  27. #127

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    First comment the structural guys I work with made when they saw the photos said installation error.

  28. #128
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    The thing that I wonder is that the first few beams are still ok (at least visually) so what is the differences between those beams that the ones that bent. Also, does this affect the concrete or the steel on either end of the bridge?
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

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    Too many possibilities to determine a cause looking at couple of stills from a web cam. As it stands I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a week or more to reopen Groat. They're not going to move anything until they've done a lot of investigating to gather data and then they need to figure out how to safely get those pieces out with a minimum of damage to the remaining structure.

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  30. #130
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    Not only that, but it might be a real process to remove the damaged steel after they've figured it all out. Just lifting out the first piece could de-stabilize the other two and allow them to damage the 3 good beams or the abutment steel, or in an extreme case, to fall to the road below.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see the cranes there into April, and to see another crane added to help the recovery process.

  31. #131
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    The 1st 3 beams (plus the east and west portions) have stronger cross bracing, you can see the difference in the thickness of the bracing. The ones that bent have thinner, assumeably temporary, bracing.

  32. #132

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    Now we have two bridges being built that have encountered problems.
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  33. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    The 1st 3 beams (plus the east and west portions) have stronger cross bracing, you can see the difference in the thickness of the bracing. The ones that bent have thinner, assumeably temporary, bracing.
    Sounds like a contractor rushing to maintain a scheduled reopening of Groat Road.
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  34. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnoblade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by noodle View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?
    Local steel for Groat Road, imported for Walterdale...
    Exactly what I was wondering. Maybe now every comments section won't be filled with people complaining that they didn't buy local for Walterdale.
    Oh yes my bad overseas steel IS ALWAYS THE ANSWER will you ever forgive me alex..........
    I don't recall saying that it was. I'm simply saying that IF it's a manufacturing issue it might put some of the repeat commenters in their place, considering many of them like to call imported steel inferior.

  35. #135
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    Oh we've had more than 2 bridges which have had problems, these are just what I can recall from my sometimes vague memory.

    Capilano Bridge - firm re-decking ran into corrosion problems plus no way to attach forms to the existing beams
    Dawson Bridge - concrete decking was poured very unevenly had to get re-re-decked
    High Level Bridge - corrosion problems were far worse than CP lead the city to believe
    Quesnell Bridge - can't remember why, I'm thinking it was similar to Capilano
    Anthony Henday - contractor dropped a major beam during erection.

    Look on the bright side, nobody was hurt, and this is a far smaller problem than Portland has ...
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  36. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post


    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/index.html

    How do heavy steel girders bend like pipe cleaners. Could this be something in the manufacturing of them. I can see steel a lot thinner than that buckling from extreme heat, but those thick girders are a mystery.
    Massive forces at play here... and design is done in a way to deal with expected loads, not unexpected*

    *sorta.
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  37. #137

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    If you picked up those beams laying sideways, the beams would bend under their own weight alone.

    5 grown men can stand on a 2x10, 12 feet long. Put it on it's side and one man can probably break it. Simple physics
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  38. #138

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    Someone dun goofed. I feel bad for commuters that use that stretch, and even worse for the affected businesses.
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  39. #139
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    If you look closely, the beam grab of one of the crane's is exactly where the steel fatigued. (I'm thinking the crane controlling that grab is west center in the picture)

    My guess.... and it's strictly a guess is that created enough shear stress to deform the girder.

  40. #140

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    Perhaps the base that the steel I beams rests on wasn't anchored into the ground well enough and the weight caused the base to move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThomasH View Post
    Perhaps the base that the steel I beams rests on wasn't anchored into the ground well enough and the weight caused the base to move.
    I hope that's not the case. I see replacing the steel as a one year delay. I'd be willing to bet that damage to the piers will cause a two year delay. They would likely need to be removed and reconstructed.
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  42. #142

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    On the webcam site, if you zoom in tight to the far south girder and swap back and forth between 2:00 and 2:15, you can see even that one shift slightly. Hopefully some of it is salvageable, but it appears as if everything was affected by this mishap.

  43. #143

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    CFRN news at 6 shows the steel warping as it happens.

    http://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=571215
    This was just a news clip. It didn't show the steel warping.

  44. #144

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    ^Yeah, It's not available on line yet although they did show it on the live newscast.
    It did show you the time lapse of it happening. I will check back later to see if it is on-line. Sorry bout that.
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  45. #145
    Last edited by Gemini; 16-03-2015 at 08:02 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    That's just the 2:00AM and 2:15AM frames from the construction cam.

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  47. #147

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    They better add extra temporary bracing to the good beams until they can get the others stabilized and removed.
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  48. #148

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    That's just the 2:00AM and 2:15AM frames from the construction cam.
    Closest I could get without actually being there myself with a camera.
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  49. #149
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    Being that a misalignment of the ends occurred, might there have been some seismic activity? Don't many small tremors occur that aren't perceptible in the normal run of things? With the weight and forces at play with this construction, even a very minor shift in the foundations could well have been exacerbated by such a condition.

    Disclaimer: As anyone with any knowledge in things seismic, unlike yours truly, will already have thought, this is purely a WAG on my part.
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  50. #150

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Being that a misalignment of the ends occurred, might there have been some seismic activity? Don't many small tremors occur that aren't perceptible in the normal run of things? With the weight and forces at play with this construction, even a very minor shift in the foundations could well have been exacerbated by such a condition.

    Disclaimer: As anyone with any knowledge in things seismic, unlike yours truly, will already have thought, this is purely a WAG on my part.
    I was thinking the same thing. It was only when more weight was added to the overall structure that it buckled. Oh well, take er down and try again.

  51. #151
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    My only response to that would be, then wouldn't all of the beams be affected then?

    One theory I have, some how there was some massive compression on those particular beams which caused them to fail and bend to naturally diminish the compression forces.
    LRT is our future, time to push forward.

  52. #152
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    Not enough temporary support under these beams and especially in the middle is what did them in. Just being in such a hurry to set them in place as well with more concern to having Groat Rd open as quickly as possible than the task at hand.
    Last edited by Drumbones; 17-03-2015 at 05:45 AM.

  53. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Not enough temporary support under these beams and especially in the middle is what did them in. Just being in such a hurry to set them in place as well with more concern to having Groat Rd open as quickly as possible than the task at hand.
    Agreed, even 6"x 6"x 1/2" angle iron connectors, bend like a straws under such loads. For the plate girders that are tied in and bent, the pulling forces on the end supports are massive. There is a lot of bending moment stress at the mounting points to the foundations. Hope that there is not additional damage to the foundations.
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  54. #154

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    I been driving this road the last week as I'm in town. They have scaffold erected to support these girders but they look very inadequate interns of load baring. If it sunk somewhat, that could cause lateral shifting of these girders which would cause them to buckle. I was shocked to see such insufficient scaffold for such heavy loads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howie View Post
    Being that a misalignment of the ends occurred, might there have been some seismic activity? Don't many small tremors occur that aren't perceptible in the normal run of things? With the weight and forces at play with this construction, even a very minor shift in the foundations could well have been exacerbated by such a condition.

    Disclaimer: As anyone with any knowledge in things seismic, unlike yours truly, will already have thought, this is purely a WAG on my part.
    The ends aren't misaligned. That's just camera angle. If you compare earlier frames before the buckling the end girders do not move. As others have noted the buckling looks more like the girders weren't supported or cross braced properly.

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  56. #156
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    i was hoping that they would have the Groat open by the time my kid has her high school grad at the Jube in May, but sadly it looks like we will be going the long way to get there!
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    I feel for the businesses along that stretch.. sounds like a lot of them are struggling

    We went to Original Joe's a few weeks ago... hadn't been in the area in forever.. it was an odd experience as it did not feel like the place was on a busy thoroughfare, rather it felt like it was at the end of a quiet dead end street.
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  58. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The ends aren't misaligned. That's just camera angle. If you compare earlier frames before the buckling the end girders do not move. As others have noted the buckling looks more like the girders weren't supported or cross braced properly.
    I disagree. It is very apparent to me that, based on before and after images, the end girders (on one side, at least) definitely shifted as a result of the failure. The north-most end girders, for example, no longer align at the same angle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    I feel for the businesses along that stretch.. sounds like a lot of them are struggling

    We went to Original Joe's a few weeks ago... hadn't been in the area in forever.. it was an odd experience as it did not feel like the place was on a busy thoroughfare, rather it felt like it was at the end of a quiet dead end street.
    It is currently

    Also, I imagine that OJs has suffered with more options opening centrally. But yes, feel for the businesses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    poorly animated video showing the difference https://gfycat.com/MisguidedCreamyBergerpicard
    Thanks Medwards. It shows a clear before and afterwards and how other beams were affected. I wonder what the line pull on the three cranes are? The whole thing may collapse if they let go. If a hydraulic seal or hose on one of the cranes fails after holding the load for days, what happens?
    Last edited by Edmonton PRT; 17-03-2015 at 09:41 AM.
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  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    I feel for the businesses along that stretch.. sounds like a lot of them are struggling

    We went to Original Joe's a few weeks ago... hadn't been in the area in forever.. it was an odd experience as it did not feel like the place was on a busy thoroughfare, rather it felt like it was at the end of a quiet dead end street.
    Last time I was in High Street a couple of weeks ago I still couldn't find parking in that strip mall where Carbon is now, so it wasn't very apparent which businesses were actually hurting.

    But if needed, I'm sure an awareness/advertising campaign can be done for the area.
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  63. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex.L View Post
    Do we know where the beams were manufactured?

    I read somewhere that they were manufactured by Supreme Steel here in Edmonton. Can't remember where I saw that. The Sun just says that the steel came from Edmonton without naming the fabricator.

  64. #164

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    EDIT: Correction, Supreme Steel...
    Last edited by lat; 17-03-2015 at 11:31 AM.

  65. #165
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    Sounds like Groat will be closed for 3 more weeks
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  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now we have two bridges being built that have encountered problems.
    Two? Nearly every major bridge construction or rehabilitation that the City of Edmonton has overseen in the past 10 years has been a complete and utter fiasco. Quesnell was massively behind schedule, and there were also problems with the Dawson and James MacDonald rehabilitations, with the MacDonald bridge having an absolutely horrific road surface when it was all said and done. They tried to grind the concrete to smooth it out, but it's still pretty brutal. Capilano had problems as well.

    With the delays on the Walterdale and now this charlie foxtrot at 102 avenue, it's fairly apparent that the City is incapable of managing these projects effectively. A full audit and report of the various departments involved needs to be done, and heads should be rolling. This string of failures with multiple contractors and projects is unacceptable. Changes need to be made.

  67. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Not enough temporary support under these beams and especially in the middle is what did them in. Just being in such a hurry to set them in place as well with more concern to having Groat Rd open as quickly as possible than the task at hand.
    I agree as well, they were behind do to issues with the first girder and were pushing to get back on schedule.

  68. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medwards View Post
    poorly animated video showing the difference https://gfycat.com/MisguidedCreamyBergerpicard
    Its at the connection joint of each girder where I'm watching. It looks like it sinks down a little bit. Is that not where the Scaffolding sits. I mean on the Henday projects, when they are bracing the concrete columns of all things, they use steel beams, not scaffolding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now we have two bridges being built that have encountered problems.
    Two? Nearly every major bridge construction or rehabilitation that the City of Edmonton has overseen in the past 10 years has been a complete and utter fiasco. Quesnell was massively behind schedule, and there were also problems with the Dawson and James MacDonald rehabilitations, with the MacDonald bridge having an absolutely horrific road surface when it was all said and done. They tried to grind the concrete to smooth it out, but it's still pretty brutal. Capilano had problems as well.

    With the delays on the Walterdale and now this charlie foxtrot at 102 avenue, it's fairly apparent that the City is incapable of managing these projects effectively. A full audit and report of the various departments involved needs to be done, and heads should be rolling. This string of failures with multiple contractors and projects is unacceptable. Changes need to be made.
    But how about the recent bridge projects that did go right? Low Level NB, Grierson Hill Bridge rebuild, Rossdale Road bridge all went smoothly AFAIK
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    But how about the recent bridge projects that did go right? Low Level NB, Grierson Hill Bridge rebuild, Rossdale Road bridge all went smoothly AFAIK
    Not to mention all the bridges in and around the Henday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    But how about the recent bridge projects that did go right? Low Level NB, Grierson Hill Bridge rebuild, Rossdale Road bridge all went smoothly AFAIK
    I guess if the City were playing baseball, that would be a pretty good hitting percentage. But as it stands, I'd much prefer that the city be targeting at least an NHL save percentage for "bridge projects that don't go completely sideways".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrOilers View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    But how about the recent bridge projects that did go right? Low Level NB, Grierson Hill Bridge rebuild, Rossdale Road bridge all went smoothly AFAIK
    Not to mention all the bridges in and around the Henday.
    Provincial.

  73. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by BalancedOP View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbones View Post
    Not enough temporary support under these beams and especially in the middle is what did them in. Just being in such a hurry to set them in place as well with more concern to having Groat Rd open as quickly as possible than the task at hand.
    I agree as well, they were behind do to issues with the first girder and were pushing to get back on schedule.
    That begs the question. Was the job rushed to get Groat Road open on Monday morning and if so, who was pushing the schedule? Was it the COE or the contractor?

    Everyone woould agree that safety should be placed first and it would have been better to be one day late and open the road Tuesday than rush the job and screw everything up as they did.
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  74. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel Petrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    Now we have two bridges being built that have encountered problems.
    Two? Nearly every major bridge construction or rehabilitation that the City of Edmonton has overseen in the past 10 years has been a complete and utter fiasco. Quesnell was massively behind schedule, and there were also problems with the Dawson and James MacDonald rehabilitations, with the MacDonald bridge having an absolutely horrific road surface when it was all said and done. They tried to grind the concrete to smooth it out, but it's still pretty brutal. Capilano had problems as well.

    With the delays on the Walterdale and now this charlie foxtrot at 102 avenue, it's fairly apparent that the City is incapable of managing these projects effectively. A full audit and report of the various departments involved needs to be done, and heads should be rolling. This string of failures with multiple contractors and projects is unacceptable. Changes need to be made.
    I said bridges 'being' built not bridges previously built.
    Anyway, I'm at a loss at who is to blame for this fiasco. I'm prepared to wait until all the info is in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spill View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The ends aren't misaligned. That's just camera angle. If you compare earlier frames before the buckling the end girders do not move. As others have noted the buckling looks more like the girders weren't supported or cross braced properly.
    I disagree. It is very apparent to me that, based on before and after images, the end girders (on one side, at least) definitely shifted as a result of the failure. The north-most end girders, for example, no longer align at the same angle.
    You're correct that it looks like the north most girders deformed as well, however there is nothing in the pictures that shows any movement due to the ground or footing moving. The north most girders are attached to the girders that deformed so they got moved too.

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  76. #176

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    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...768/story.html

    Maybe I'm imagining this but it looks to me on these long shots that the very far girder on the left looks like it is slightly bent. Hopefully it's not my imagination as that means the first girders that they put in could be compromised.
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  77. #177

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    The best thing is that we have photographic evidence.
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    I was checking the Groat Road view and there was gap in the images at that time

  79. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonic Death Monkey View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 240GLT View Post
    I feel for the businesses along that stretch.. sounds like a lot of them are struggling

    We went to Original Joe's a few weeks ago... hadn't been in the area in forever.. it was an odd experience as it did not feel like the place was on a busy thoroughfare, rather it felt like it was at the end of a quiet dead end street.
    Last time I was in High Street a couple of weeks ago I still couldn't find parking in that strip mall where Carbon is now, so it wasn't very apparent which businesses were actually hurting.

    But if needed, I'm sure an awareness/advertising campaign can be done for the area.
    I may be wrong, but I'm confident that 95% of all vehicles parked in the area are destined for Urban Diner.
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  80. #180

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    Hey, I just found a couple of replacement bridges that we can get for almost nothing.


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  81. #181

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    Is there a chance the track could bend?
    Not on your life, my Hindu friend


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  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/...768/story.html

    Maybe I'm imagining this but it looks to me on these long shots that the very far girder on the left looks like it is slightly bent. Hopefully it's not my imagination as that means the first girders that they put in could be compromised.
    It is visibly curved, but we can't tell from the picture if it's elastic or inelastic. In the former case once the tension is removed the beam will return to it's original shape.

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    The C of E are saying this could delay the bridge opening for another year. Why that long?. Not sure how long it takes to get new beams made but that seems like an excessive length of time. I should imagine they will have to be super careful removing these damaged girders to make sure the other girders are not compromised. Unless the C of E are given us the worst case scenario on the delay.
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    So, what do they do? X-ray the remaining beams to ensure no damage?

    I know aircraft are regularly inspected for cracks in the wings - just don't know how.
    ... gobsmacked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    The C of E are saying this could delay the bridge opening for another year. Why that long?. Not sure how long it takes to get new beams made but that seems like an excessive length of time. I should imagine they will have to be super careful removing these damaged girders to make sure the other girders are not compromised. Unless the C of E are given us the worst case scenario on the delay.
    I've heard over six months to get new girders made. It's also going to take some time to determine how much damage there is, how to remove what needs to be removed, how to fix what needs to be fixed and get moving again. It doesn't pay to rush in engineering.

    "For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong"

  87. #187

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    ^Not after what just happened. Geez, imagine if they removed then set down three new girders and it happened again. Does not bare thinking.
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    ^ As we may have witnessed this past weekend!
    ... gobsmacked

  89. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I was checking the Groat Road view and there was gap in the images at that time
    Noticed that too... How convenient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    I was checking the Groat Road view and there was gap in the images at that time
    Noticed that too... How convenient.
    The camera takes a frame every 15 minutes. None of the frames are missing.

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    I don't want to belabour this but I just find it really fascinating the way those girders bent like that. Would these girders have bent slowly over that 15 minute period or would it have been like a click of the fingers and boom, bend in a second.
    "The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

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    Its awful .But I would prefer it happen now, than when it is all done !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gemini View Post
    I don't want to belabour this but I just find it really fascinating the way those girders bent like that. Would these girders have bent slowly over that 15 minute period or would it have been like a click of the fingers and boom, bend in a second.
    From all the stuff I've read the last day I think it would have happened fairly quickly but ultimately, IANAE, so I don't know for certain. At the very least we know for certain that this particular failure took place in less than 15 minutes.

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  94. #194

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    To bad the camera was only on 15 minute time frames.
    Back to the drawing board.
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  95. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Its awful .But I would prefer it happen now, than when it is all done !
    If it was all done, it wouldn't have happened!

  96. #196

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    ^Not so fast.................


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-zczJXSxnw
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The camera takes a frame every 15 minutes. None of the frames are missing.
    Earlier the camera on Groat Road Camera looking and northwards up at the bridge jumps from March 15th 21:30 to March 16th 4:30
    http://www.earthcam.net/projects/edm...idge/?cam=cam1

    You can't see much from that angle but still perhaps it might have shed a bit more light on what happened.

    All the frames are present for the west view looking down on the bridge.
    Last edited by sundance; 17-03-2015 at 03:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sundance View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Turnbull View Post
    The camera takes a frame every 15 minutes. None of the frames are missing.
    Earlier the camera on Groat Road Camera looking and northwards up at the bridge jumps from March 15th 21:30 to March 16th 4:30
    http://www.earthcam.net/projects/edm...idge/?cam=cam1

    You can't see much from that angle but still perhaps it might have shed a bit more light on what happened.

    All the frames are present for the west view looking down on the bridge.
    Ahhh, I hadn't been looking at that cam as the angle seemed less than ideal for seeing anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hello lady View Post
    Its awful .But I would prefer it happen now, than when it is all done !
    If it was all done, it wouldn't have happened!
    You know that for a fact do you Isn't this the same unstable area where the houses fell into the river?????

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    ^ Nope, that was Riverbend. The slump was caused by river flow, which is faster around the outside of a bend.

    Odd this is the first moment I've understood why they called it River-bend.
    ... gobsmacked

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